I suggest you take the most basic of looks at other games that employ randomly generated maps, most notably Age of Empires (e.g. make it churn out a whole bunch of maps and analise general trends, if you want to), because ultimately the issue with the maps you've provided is that, I'll repeat it, they arent fair, because mineral distances/terrain features that apply to one spawn don't apply to another. That's just inherent map imballance, there's no way you can say that a spawn with a single tight choke is any way equal or equivalent to a spawn with just an empty expanse around it. Also in my experience 3 player maps are the HARDEST to ballance... would it be possible if you could do a quick run of 128x96 2 player maps that have diagonal symmetry + Show Spoiler [like this] +

But in any case props to you for doing this, I've always loved fantasizing about maps and new maps; if you want ANY sort of advice on Starcraft Maps from english-speakers, you really need to contact some old BWMaps people (off the top of my head, the only ones that I've seen around recently are neobowman and Chef (PsycHOTemplar) ), the know their shit son!

figq

12519 Posts

July 19 2011 17:35 GMT

#42

It's a great idea to work on this. Please consider adjusting the algorithms to produce symmetric maps though. It would improve the effect dramatically.

Vipsanius

Netherlands708 Posts

July 19 2011 17:49 GMT

#43

I suggest you stay away from 3 player maps, as those are very difficult to make and from all the maps i saw there were none that were balanced for all 3 players at all. Still like the idea though, but 2/4 player is much easier and lets you define the algorithm better, the symmetry may suck because it makes your challenge easier, but it makes the enjoyment of games played on those maps that much better.

swanized

Canada2480 Posts

July 19 2011 18:04 GMT

#44

On July 19 2011 07:50 101TFP wrote:
I have played Battleforge (great RTS mixed with trading card game) a lot.

They introduced randomly generated maps at some point and I really loved those.

Not having to play the same maps over and over all the time is pretty cool, I would love to have that for starcraft laddering.
It just has to be done right, so that the maps don't turn out too weird/imbalanced.

edit: I just took the test, and to be honest it was a little disappointing.

The most important thing for a map to be fair is the symmetry. Every map must have perfect symmetry to even have a chance of being fair...

I really recommend you to look into how the random maps in Battleforge are made, it could help you out a lot.

Fantasy 2 would like to have a word with you

razorsuKe

Canada2000 Posts

July 19 2011 18:31 GMT

#45

I was excited to check out this experiment and participate... until I saw the maps.
I'm afraid my answer was the same for all of them, nothing was fair or even and every map was flawed.

VGhost

United States3616 Posts

July 19 2011 18:32 GMT

#46

I'm not sure how far along this project is supposed to be, so I don't want to be too harsh, but at the same time all of these maps seemed nearly unplayably bad. Resources weren't even on any. Most had a pattern: top left - choke, "standard" main; right side semi-choke (or chokes); bottom wide open. I'd have to agree that it would seem to make more sense to try 2 or 4 player maps first but I don't know what constraints you're working with in the actual programming.

tryummm

774 Posts

July 19 2011 18:41 GMT

#47

You should attempt to make 4 player maps. 2 Player and 3 Player maps are very difficult to balance. Almost all the 2 and 3 player maps at the professional level have balance problems. Most 4 player maps are alright.

The maps that you generated though are unplayable.

kamikami

France1057 Posts

July 19 2011 18:42 GMT

#48

Hi OP,

I'm sorry to be cruel here, but if your maps are not symetric noone will play those maps, NOONE. So you and your team can enjoy your wonderful project by yourselves and noone will care. They are BAD maps.

In the other hand, just make them symetric and a bunch of people will play them and give you feedback despite them still being imbalanced.

Phobic

United States50 Posts

July 19 2011 19:13 GMT

#49

These maps are terrible, not to mention imba. Those algorithms need some serious reworking to accommodate balance.

cogr

Italy1 Post

November 17 2011 13:58 GMT

#50

--- Nuked ---

kuroshiroi

3149 Posts

November 17 2011 14:08 GMT

#51

Link doesn't work for me, redirects to some random site...

Double T

Poland25 Posts

November 17 2011 20:53 GMT

#52

Okay, I have sent them a line, as after the survey they gave an email to do so, if I wished.
This is what I wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +

Hello,

I don't know why, but you seem somewhat randomly put resources at a map, and by this I don't mean that you make new bases randomly, but that you don't keep them tight.
You should recognize a basic structure of a base in SC, and try to distribute such a structures around a map (I assume you don't do it on purpose with a reason I can't imagine). There are three requirements for a base in SC:
1) It needs a place to put a main building.
2) It require minerals to be put in the shortest possible distance form the main building; usually half of them is placed one grid further.
3) it needs gas in the shortest possible distance form the main building. In starting position it should be exactly above main building, so 3 workers can mine it effectively, which is extremely important in the early game. Some bases can have minerals only.

There is also a single requirement to keep resources distribution fair:
1) From each starting location you should have VERY similar distances to new bases. It is allowed for bases not to be in a number that will be suitable for equal division among players, BUT they have to have equal chances to get it, so it must be in equal distances from all players.

Once you keep bases organized under those conditions, you will immediately get fair resources distribution.

Just place whole bases around the map!

good luck!
Double T from TeamLiquid forums

We need to find more such an "objects" like bases, so they can make more of a jigsaw puzzle than... well, whatever it was