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Hi everybody,
As part of a research team at the IT University of Copenhagen I am currently investigating automatic generation of maps for strategy games. In a recent paper we describe how we use evolutionary algorithms to create StarCraft maps:
http://julian.togelius.com/Togelius2010Multiobjective.pdf
Now, we would like some experienced StarCraft players to help us validate our algorithms by looking at the maps we have created and giving us your opinions. This is why I am posting in this forum. We would be very happy if as many as possible of you went to the following address, looked at ten algorithmically created StarCraft maps, and told us what you think about them:
http://itu.dk/people/cogr/starcraft_experiment/
With your help, we might come closer to our goal of automatic generation of quality game content.
One more thing: if you intend to read the paper, please do the survey first, so that your reading the paper will not bias your answers.
Thanks a lot in advance for this!
Julian Togelius
julian@togelius.com
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United States5162 Posts
Wow, really cool man. I'll definitely help out and look at the generated maps.
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Creating maps through the use of evolutionary algorithms sound really interesting. Will this be how the map with ultimate balance will be constructed? ^_^
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Sounds awesome, would be great to help you guys out testing.
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If you guys actually want to do this help yourselfs out by making 2 player maps only at first, there is absolutely no one way you are going to make these anywhere near balanced with 3 player maps. Also you have to make things more symmetrical with terrain and location of naturals and 3rds.
Good idea, just needs a lot of tweaking :D
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You seem to have this problem of making the player in the top left get trapped on an island.
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I have played Battleforge (great RTS mixed with trading card game) a lot.
They introduced randomly generated maps at some point and I really loved those.
Not having to play the same maps over and over all the time is pretty cool, I would love to have that for starcraft laddering.
It just has to be done right, so that the maps don't turn out too weird/imbalanced.
edit: I just took the test, and to be honest it was a little disappointing.
The most important thing for a map to be fair is the symmetry. Every map must have perfect symmetry to even have a chance of being fair...
I really recommend you to look into how the random maps in Battleforge are made, it could help you out a lot.
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Layout prevented me from completing survey, about 5% of the picture took up my entire screen, had to scroll like mad to see anything, sorry.
But tehre wasn't anything on any of the ten maps... it was a blanket map with scattered resources, no choke points, high ground, ramps, etc. Just literally an open plain with no design whatsoever!
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Just from glancing at the maps that were generated, you have alot of work ahead of you.
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Yeah, the maps are pretty imbalanced. Like some bases can just defend a really small choke.
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Very cool, I did the survey. How complex is the algorithm planned on being? I.E. will you eventually incorporate things like high ground and destructables? Or perhaps SC2 things like towers and vision blockers? Looking forward to the results!
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Maps won't be balanced unless they're symmetrical. Also, what's with the random gas and minerals scattered around?
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Is the jungle texture supposed to denote high ground, and the dirt texture low ground? As far as I can tell there are 0 choke points on any of the maps.
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Creating balanced, fun maps for broodwar is very difficult. Here's the list of maps used by professional Korean gamers and leagues.
http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/korean/maps
Key points they have in common:
Main is usually on high ground or at the very least has a choke that can be blocked off by a barracks and 2 supply depots.
Natural expansion should be easy to take, there should only be 1 entrance point to it and it can't be too wide to cover with cannons, or other static defense.
Third base becomes vastly more difficult to defend, and anything beyond 3 bases you're going to need to make yourself vulnerable from the open middle area.
Most maps have a generally open area dead in the middle, usually there are some sort of obstacles there to allow for tactical play.
Symmetry! Where you spawn should not give you any advantage or disadvantage. Especially for 2-player maps.
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Just finished the survey. Only map out of those that had any potential was number 7, and even then it was still way off. Keep it up and see what happens.
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Your website crashed my computer. Too bad BW couldn't have real random generated maps instead of some half-assed school project.
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Things i saw a lot of:
The top left player was frequently in a well designed base with 1 additionally easily defended expansion via choke points.
The bottom middle player was almost always surrounded by no choke points.
The top right player was half of the time in an alcove that is easily defendable and half of the time similar to the bottom middle player.
More symmetry is required for good starcraft maps.
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Starcraft is played on mirrored maps and your algorithm does not seem to take that into account. Every starting position needs to look exactly the same and have the exact same distance to the natural etc. Otherwise the game will be extremely imbalanced.
As someone said, attempt to create two player maps first, that will be much easier.
Still, a good job so far, just a lot of work ahead of you.
On July 19 2011 07:50 FabledIntegral wrote:
Layout prevented me from completing survey, about 5% of the picture took up my entire screen, had to scroll like mad to see anything, sorry.
But tehre wasn't anything on any of the ten maps... it was a blanket map with scattered resources, no choke points, high ground, ramps, etc. Just literally an open plain with no design whatsoever!
They are likely in the early stages so the maps are supposed to be flat. When they ask you for chokes they mean the stuff they have created with grass. There are two different ground textures and you just have to use a bit of imagination 
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for science !
i dont think any of the random maps i looked at would be any good to play on, but if this helps people make better maps im all for it.
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EPT
