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This "dispute" (a term that is nothing but euphemism) just shows, how absurd the concept of "Intelectual property" is. Everytime it is brought up, it hinders something. It hinders culture, technological developement ... and now also e-sports!
Giving exlusive rights to SC2 to GOM is a typical example of the extremely short-sighted thinking that affects most of the big companies today. Blizzard should encourage everyone to make and broadcast tournaments. Because, guess what, it would make the game more popular and they could sell more copies!
Neverthless, this is absurd also conceptually. Some people bought a game. They paid for it. So they should be able to compete in a tournament and have someone broadcast it on TV if the please! It's like you weren't able to broadcast any motorsport without prior consent from all the car manafacturers... The fact that the law system almost everywhere that allows Blizzard to do what they do, shows the true extent of the hole we are digging for ourselves.
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5003 Posts
On May 09 2011 22:25 nihlon wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2011 22:20 Legatus Lanius wrote:On May 09 2011 22:15 Krehlmar wrote:
No offence but in due time Korea will not be the e-gaming capital of the world, my thoughts is just that it has way to many stubborn BW fans/plaers that continue to make SC2 sound like it's "off" in Korea, whilst the rest of the world has realised that SC2 is the chance to make Esports big and thus it's gaining the support it is. no offence but you cant fault people for sticking with a better game. last i heard, broodwar is still alot more popular in korea than sc2 so its not really anyone being stubborn, its more like people being honest? i dont care if red alert 2 became a global e sport with hundreds of teams and billions of dollars, id still watch brood war People keep saying broodwar is a lot more popular but I've never seen people post where they get their sources (not that I've looked too much though). How and where do I find which games are more popular?
Here's a rough way of estimating.
TSL gets 50K viewers. Given that they have 50K viewers, let's say not everyone can watch it at the same time. I'll be generous, and say that there are 10x the number of people who can't catch it live, so 50K * 10x = 500K SC2 "esports" fans.
BW TV stations still gets like 0.7% ratings in Korea or something, much higher for bigger games (SKT vs KT matches regularly top ratings), and most of the scene is based on online watching. Given Korea's population of 40 mil that's still easily like 400K.
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it's finally over. great news for e-sports
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5003 Posts
On May 09 2011 22:33 GTR wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2011 22:16 Milkis wrote:On May 09 2011 22:07 Kreb wrote:
Oh, and isnt it a bit funny GOM gave back their SCBW broadcasting rights to Blizzard a few weeks ago? =)
This was probably coming already at that time, and since Blizz was coming to an agreement with ogn/mbc, GOM couldnt hold the rights anymore, so Blizz/GOM arranged a return of the rights to Blizz, who in turn now will allow ogn/mbc to broadcast. Maybe GOM having SCBW rights in the first place was probably just to scare ogn/mbc to agree on their demands? It's more complicated than that, but it has more to do with Blizzard realizing that they can't compete in Korea any more and they don't have the manpower to handle it since half the blizzard korea members apparently left for another company among other things. they apparently fired their head marketing guy after realising how much of a flop sc2's entry was into korea.
Yeah, that is DES speculation though, but it is true their head guy got demoted, but not sure about anything else.
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On May 09 2011 22:26 zeru wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2011 22:25 nihlon wrote:On May 09 2011 22:20 Legatus Lanius wrote:On May 09 2011 22:15 Krehlmar wrote:
No offence but in due time Korea will not be the e-gaming capital of the world, my thoughts is just that it has way to many stubborn BW fans/plaers that continue to make SC2 sound like it's "off" in Korea, whilst the rest of the world has realised that SC2 is the chance to make Esports big and thus it's gaining the support it is. no offence but you cant fault people for sticking with a better game. last i heard, broodwar is still alot more popular in korea than sc2 so its not really anyone being stubborn, its more like people being honest? i dont care if red alert 2 became a global e sport with hundreds of teams and billions of dollars, id still watch brood war People keep saying broodwar is a lot more popular but I've never seen people post where they get their sources (not that I've looked too much though). How and where do I find which games are more popular? There was PC bang statistics out a month or so ago, SC2 was in 15th place or something, bw top 3? You can also just look at the crowds for the different tournaments i guess too.
On May 09 2011 22:27 thoradycus wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2011 22:25 nihlon wrote:On May 09 2011 22:20 Legatus Lanius wrote:On May 09 2011 22:15 Krehlmar wrote:
No offence but in due time Korea will not be the e-gaming capital of the world, my thoughts is just that it has way to many stubborn BW fans/plaers that continue to make SC2 sound like it's "off" in Korea, whilst the rest of the world has realised that SC2 is the chance to make Esports big and thus it's gaining the support it is. no offence but you cant fault people for sticking with a better game. last i heard, broodwar is still alot more popular in korea than sc2 so its not really anyone being stubborn, its more like people being honest? i dont care if red alert 2 became a global e sport with hundreds of teams and billions of dollars, id still watch brood war People keep saying broodwar is a lot more popular but I've never seen people post where they get their sources (not that I've looked too much though). How and where do I find which games are more popular? There were some statistics which state that BW is ranked higher than sc2 in people playing it in PC bangs.
Ok, thanks even though I have to admit I know basically nothing about PC bangs so that statistic doesn't say much to me. Wiki didn't tell me much. Isn't there some more concrete numbers, number of people playing the games in Korea or something similar?
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If Kespa gets their hands on SC2 in Korea it will smother the sc2 scene and they very well might try that. Hopefully Blizzard will keep them away from that, I kinda like it when people joke or have enough foresight to participate in foreign tournaments.
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On May 09 2011 22:15 Krehlmar wrote:
No offence but in due time Korea will not be the e-gaming capital of the world, my thoughts is just that it has way to many stubborn BW fans/plaers that continue to make SC2 sound like it's "off" in Korea, whilst the rest of the world has realised that SC2 is the chance to make Esports big and thus it's gaining the support it is.
i'm so effin tired of having to put up with arguments like these but i will do so anyways.
what defines e-gaming capital of the world? a country that's hosting the most recent games at a grand scale? how are BW fans stubborn? just because BW is older than sc2? have you never thought of the possibility that korean fans may be sticking to BW b/c they actually like it more?
you sound like this guy who's lecturing ppl on teamliquid about how sc2 defines progress and BW is outdated, inferior....simply because it's old.
i'm not going to try to convince you that BW is a better game than sc2 but you should stop playing the "no offense dot dot dot" card because clearly, you're offending the korean esports industry by implying that the korean esports industry will soon be inferior to foreign esports industry just because they're sticking to a game they like more and is more popular
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GOMtv still has the exclusive rights over sc2 for Korea, the rights they gave up recently were only for BW, and for court sake because Blizzard was going to fight alone with their "amassing law firm lawyers". For more SC2 tournaments KeSPA will have to pay GOMtv which doesn't seam to be in this deal, and we really don't want KeSPA getting contracts with all the SC2 players and being the power maniac they are it just doesn't sound too good, to tell you the truth GOM is going to have to be careful about this if they are approached they shouldn't allow KeSPA to take over like OGN and MBC allowed them to do.
Also SC2 atm is much inferior in terms of balance and justfundamental gameplay to BW, I really hope the expansions change that with Heart of the Swarm and so on SC2 becomes more of an RTS then a-move game that it is right now.
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Netherlands45349 Posts
On May 09 2011 22:37 nihlon wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2011 22:26 zeru wrote:On May 09 2011 22:25 nihlon wrote:On May 09 2011 22:20 Legatus Lanius wrote:On May 09 2011 22:15 Krehlmar wrote:
No offence but in due time Korea will not be the e-gaming capital of the world, my thoughts is just that it has way to many stubborn BW fans/plaers that continue to make SC2 sound like it's "off" in Korea, whilst the rest of the world has realised that SC2 is the chance to make Esports big and thus it's gaining the support it is. no offence but you cant fault people for sticking with a better game. last i heard, broodwar is still alot more popular in korea than sc2 so its not really anyone being stubborn, its more like people being honest? i dont care if red alert 2 became a global e sport with hundreds of teams and billions of dollars, id still watch brood war People keep saying broodwar is a lot more popular but I've never seen people post where they get their sources (not that I've looked too much though). How and where do I find which games are more popular? There was PC bang statistics out a month or so ago, SC2 was in 15th place or something, bw top 3? You can also just look at the crowds for the different tournaments i guess too. Show nested quote +On May 09 2011 22:27 thoradycus wrote:On May 09 2011 22:25 nihlon wrote:On May 09 2011 22:20 Legatus Lanius wrote:On May 09 2011 22:15 Krehlmar wrote:
No offence but in due time Korea will not be the e-gaming capital of the world, my thoughts is just that it has way to many stubborn BW fans/plaers that continue to make SC2 sound like it's "off" in Korea, whilst the rest of the world has realised that SC2 is the chance to make Esports big and thus it's gaining the support it is. no offence but you cant fault people for sticking with a better game. last i heard, broodwar is still alot more popular in korea than sc2 so its not really anyone being stubborn, its more like people being honest? i dont care if red alert 2 became a global e sport with hundreds of teams and billions of dollars, id still watch brood war People keep saying broodwar is a lot more popular but I've never seen people post where they get their sources (not that I've looked too much though). How and where do I find which games are more popular? There were some statistics which state that BW is ranked higher than sc2 in people playing it in PC bangs. Ok, thanks even though I have to admit I know basically nothing about PC bangs so that statistic doesn't say much to me. Wiki didn't tell me much. Isn't there some more concrete numbers, number of people playing the games in Korea or something similar?
Lets just say that PC bangs is the way to hang out in Korea, it is a culture, you go there for social activities(as weird as that may sound), hence alot of youngsters play much more BW then SC2.
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On May 09 2011 22:29 Numy wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2011 22:28 Ajnin wrote:On May 09 2011 22:19 Milkis wrote:On May 09 2011 22:15 Krehlmar wrote:
No offence but in due time Korea will not be the e-gaming capital of the world, my thoughts is just that it has way to many stubborn BW fans/plaers that continue to make SC2 sound like it's "off" in Korea, whilst the rest of the world has realised that SC2 is the chance to make Esports big and thus it's gaining the support it is. no offence but in due time the SC2 bubble will die and everything you thought was stable will disappear and the SC2 scene will be only a shell of what is around now. let me know if sc2 lasts 10 years, because it wont. Yeah in 1999 when sc1 was 1 year old, everyone said this game will last for 10+ years.. That's a logical statement. (Btw, didn't sc2 boom TL's traffic? I would expect the mods to be at least a little happy for sc2.) He's merely insulting the poster. Geezlike read what he quoted.
Uhm, no, he was aiming at sc2. It was unnecessary as well, as there are hundreds of tournaments every month, and really many parts of the world are getting into sc2. Imo it's slowly starting to get huge with the MLGs, NASL, IPL, TSL, GSL, and tons of offside tournaments.
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On May 09 2011 22:36 Milkis wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2011 22:25 nihlon wrote:On May 09 2011 22:20 Legatus Lanius wrote:On May 09 2011 22:15 Krehlmar wrote:
No offence but in due time Korea will not be the e-gaming capital of the world, my thoughts is just that it has way to many stubborn BW fans/plaers that continue to make SC2 sound like it's "off" in Korea, whilst the rest of the world has realised that SC2 is the chance to make Esports big and thus it's gaining the support it is. no offence but you cant fault people for sticking with a better game. last i heard, broodwar is still alot more popular in korea than sc2 so its not really anyone being stubborn, its more like people being honest? i dont care if red alert 2 became a global e sport with hundreds of teams and billions of dollars, id still watch brood war People keep saying broodwar is a lot more popular but I've never seen people post where they get their sources (not that I've looked too much though). How and where do I find which games are more popular? Here's a rough way of estimating. TSL gets 50K viewers. Given that they have 50K viewers, let's say not everyone can watch it at the same time. I'll be generous, and say that there are 10x the number of people who can't catch it live, so 50K * 10x = 500K SC2 "esports" fans. BW TV stations still gets like 0.7% ratings in Korea or something, much higher for bigger games (SKT vs KT matches regularly top ratings), and most of the scene is based on online watching. Given Korea's population of 40 mil that's still easily like 400K.
not to mention the shit ton of people in korea who watch it on streams too. (not everyone has cable)
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On May 09 2011 21:44 BLinD-RawR wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2011 21:40 Rickilicious wrote:The agreement is believed to have arrived due to starcraft2’s failure to be embraced by the Korean fans. rofl. biased much? All in all, good news it wasn't embraced by koreans much.only by those who could afford it,which is not that many.
Well, then it's not something about gameplay, but about the cost of SC2. Which is a different subject.
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*logs on iccup* 700 players..
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On May 09 2011 22:36 Milkis wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2011 22:25 nihlon wrote:On May 09 2011 22:20 Legatus Lanius wrote:On May 09 2011 22:15 Krehlmar wrote:
No offence but in due time Korea will not be the e-gaming capital of the world, my thoughts is just that it has way to many stubborn BW fans/plaers that continue to make SC2 sound like it's "off" in Korea, whilst the rest of the world has realised that SC2 is the chance to make Esports big and thus it's gaining the support it is. no offence but you cant fault people for sticking with a better game. last i heard, broodwar is still alot more popular in korea than sc2 so its not really anyone being stubborn, its more like people being honest? i dont care if red alert 2 became a global e sport with hundreds of teams and billions of dollars, id still watch brood war People keep saying broodwar is a lot more popular but I've never seen people post where they get their sources (not that I've looked too much though). How and where do I find which games are more popular? Here's a rough way of estimating. TSL gets 50K viewers. Given that they have 50K viewers, let's say not everyone can watch it at the same time. I'll be generous, and say that there are 10x the number of people who can't catch it live, so 50K * 10x = 500K SC2 "esports" fans. BW TV stations still gets like 0.7% ratings in Korea or something, much higher for bigger games (SKT vs KT matches regularly top ratings), and most of the scene is based on online watching. Given Korea's population of 40 mil that's still easily like 400K.
Ok thanks. Do you know the viewers for the gsl? Or do they not get released other than the vods?
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5003 Posts
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ALLEYCAT BLUES50641 Posts
well whatever we get BW and I'm fine with whatever happens to SC2,if it can grow in Korea,it will grow,if it doesn't,the foreigner scene will probably make something out of it.
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On May 09 2011 22:19 Milkis wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2011 22:15 Krehlmar wrote:
No offence but in due time Korea will not be the e-gaming capital of the world, my thoughts is just that it has way to many stubborn BW fans/plaers that continue to make SC2 sound like it's "off" in Korea, whilst the rest of the world has realised that SC2 is the chance to make Esports big and thus it's gaining the support it is. no offence but in due time the SC2 bubble will die and everything you thought was stable will disappear and the SC2 scene will be only a shell of what is around now. let me know if sc2 lasts 10 years, because it wont.
This the concensus in the Anti-SC2 writter scene? That just a few months before major reveals of SC2 next expansion Blizzard capitulated and resigned to giving the rights to broadcast Starcraft?
I don't pretend to know the exact terms of the deal they signed, but just from what the OP, it seems that Blizzard got everything they could want. I'd argue over this point, but since I believe that this can only be good for every party involved, so if SC2 haters believe Blizzard gave up, might not be a bad thing.
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I have to think this couldn't be worse for bw. Hopefully nothing changes for now and KeSPA keeps doing the awesome work they are doing.
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Russian Federation4405 Posts
Fuck yes! I can't be more happy ^_^
edit: OH WAIT WAT
they said they're COMING to agreement only now. Let's wait a bit and only then fully celebrate. 
edit 2: Haha yes nice notice about the upcoming expansion LOL
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5003 Posts
On May 09 2011 22:40 Furycrab wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2011 22:19 Milkis wrote:On May 09 2011 22:15 Krehlmar wrote:
No offence but in due time Korea will not be the e-gaming capital of the world, my thoughts is just that it has way to many stubborn BW fans/plaers that continue to make SC2 sound like it's "off" in Korea, whilst the rest of the world has realised that SC2 is the chance to make Esports big and thus it's gaining the support it is. no offence but in due time the SC2 bubble will die and everything you thought was stable will disappear and the SC2 scene will be only a shell of what is around now. let me know if sc2 lasts 10 years, because it wont. This the concensus in the Anti-SC2 writter scene? That just a few months before major reveals of SC2 next expansion Blizzard capitulated and resigned to giving the rights to broadcast Starcraft? I don't pretend to know the exact terms of the deal they signed, but just from what the OP, it seems that Blizzard got everything they could want. I'd argue over this point, but since I believe that this can only be good for every party involved, so if SC2 haters believe Blizzard gave up, might not be a bad thing.
I don't represent "writers". I represent myself.
Considering Blizzard initiated contact with KeSPA to negotiate with OGN/MBC, who knows what the terms were.
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EPT
