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On October 13 2010 09:37 moopie wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2010 09:34 Pyrrhuloxia wrote:On October 13 2010 09:25 moopie wrote:On October 13 2010 08:39 ptz wrote:
- every b team progamer will jump at the chance of a head start, a thing that is actually happening, and would have happened imo even if MSL/OSL/Proleague were set in stone and were to begin tomorrow.
- new players would choose the new game mostly, there would be no pool for the further growth of bw. It would become a closed circuit and die, just like it probably will now. It's sad, but it's how things go.
- MONEY, the big $$$. Sc2 is just an infant and ofc has large worldwide appeal at the moment. Blizzard speculates this and throws in a shitload of cash. Bw legends switch games, the public becomes more and more aware of sc2. Loads of players transition. This pretty much by itself means the slow death of the bw scene. Invariably, it cannot survive. Those aren't the greatest points to make. For one, the courage tournament still has lots of applicants from people wanting to become SC1 progamers. Also, since SC2 doesn't have any team leagues (and won't if Gretech/Blizzard get their way) there is no way that most progamers will stay. You can have a top prize of a million dollars, and you'll still alienate over 80% of the progamers (B and low A) who won't see any of that, or just barely from making ro64 on occasion (which is still far too low to live on). In the end, you'll have a lot of people retire because they see no money, and no real sponsorship. Team leagues in BW gave airtime even to lesser players, and that made it worth to the sponsors to feed and house them (and give salaries in the case of A teamers), since they still appear on TV with the team logos. They even got fans because team fans rallied around the newer players with support and hoped they would prosper. With individual leagues alone most of those players will never see the light of day, just like if BW in korea was only the OSL/MSL we wouldn't really know most of the players we know and love on the teams. After a few months of trying and not making it to the top 32 or so of the 1 tournament that they have there they will give up on progaming and play recreationally (there will probably be a couple more high profile tournaments in Korea later on, but they will also get dominated by the top 5-10% of players, like in BW). No team leagues means in the long run, it will be hard for a game to flourish and grow. What makes you say Gretech and Blizzard don't want to see a team league? GOM is showing an SC2 team league exhibition less than 24 hours from now. I'm sure they'd love for it to expand into a team league. If the people saying GOM and Blizzard want to kill proleague are correct, surely they would have plans for a SC2 team league replacement. Oh I don't know... maybe the fact that they straight out said they don't want team leagues?
Well the reason I asked was because I hoped you could link me to that quote in context so I could look at it.
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basically with most of the news all i get is that BW is having a ton of trouble, and that bw players might switch to sc2 soon
the one that's most interesting me is the european company sponsoring a super high level a-teamer
jaedong/stork/flash/leta playing sc2 is a reality, holy jesus.
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On October 13 2010 09:42 Zalfor wrote:
team leagues are important though.
Quite, which is why it's a shame that blizzard seems set against them. Honestly, proleague was what drew me into bw at all; it felt like there was actually some structure to the whole setup with the team league and the individual leagues. If we don't see the like again, it'll be a massive shame.
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Wow, this is a lot to take in at once. Yes they are just rumours, but it seems that most of the time when stuff gets posted on fomos or playxp etc then it ends up coming true in some form or another.
I think a lot of people knew in their hearts that something like this would happen eventually, even if they didn't want to believe it. What surprises me is that everything is happening so...fast. Even though BW was facing an uncertain future, we kind of took it for granted that there would be AT LEAST another one or two starleagues and seasons of proleague, but if these rumours are true then even that is starting to look uncertain. The level of anguish in this thread is understandable.
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Seems like my Gretech/Blizzard boycott will have to remain for quite a while.
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On October 13 2010 10:01 Holgerius wrote:
Seems like my Gretech/Blizzard boycott will have to remain for quite a while.
Was there even any new information about Blizzard/Gretech here? Yeah, it says that they don't want proleague, and aren't negotiating with MBC, but we already knew that. Everything else was a logical progression from the original premises.
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I'm actually very interested to know what is this big european company that wants to contract bw pro's so they would play SC2 :o
Anyone have any info?
I haven't read the whole thread so sorry if already answered
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Ok, BW is dying faster than I expected. My heart can't deal with all this. Man, I am sad. BW dying... my god...
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Sadly this is proof that real e-sports can never last long-term. With probably 1 more year left, BW you will always be the best e-sports ever lived.
Edit:
oh yeah, fuck sc2, blob on blob, MBS, smart-cast, auto-mine, hold move hold move micro, watered down skills to simulate balance.
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Whatever happens, I hope e-sports continues to move in the right direction. From what I've been reading, it seems the BW scene in Korea was if not stale, heading in the wrong direction. As a former competitive player of UT99 and TO, and a huge fan of e-sports in general, I hope SC2 can become very successful and live up to its predecessor or even surpass it. I am not sure why the hate on the game. Yes BW was very good, and it is very sad to see it go. As consumers, we want an ever-growing product that improves upon itself. Watching GSL/MSL/GSL on my computer at 5 in the morning is one thing. Watching it in a football stadium here in Canada or the US is even better.
Obviously, best case scenario is that BW and SC2 coexist. They are essentially very different games. However, if there is no constant stream of B-teamers and A-teamers, the Kespa format will eventually crumble. And the truth, the GSL is a tournament that is attracting a lot of the newer players as well as the old. I might be naive in saying this, but even if Blizzard wanted to force the death of BW for SC2, they haven't done so yet (well, haven't done anything drastic recently... the IP rights issue was discussed years before). So this GSL hype and all the players wanting to play SC2 is independent (or as independent as can be) of Blizzard.
Do you really blame these players from switching to SC2? Its new, its hot, and they can keep some freedom.
Before I get bombarded by the BW crowd for "SC2 fanboyism", I'd just like to let you know that I would love BW to stick around. But it doesn't look like that is going to happen. Having said that, I am all for keeping E-sports alive and growing, and that is true even if we have to take a few steps back.
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Damn thx alot for your time and work
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So sad.... I hope we can have at least one more year of BW. Nothing lives forever in this world but this time BW got killed by their own creator. I think even the biggest optimists (which I was) about BW future can see now that its all over or will be over in the next year.
I hate Blizzard with all my heart from this day and vow to not buy SC2 or any other new game they develop in the future. You just couldnt left BW alone.
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On October 13 2010 10:20 SkelA wrote:
So sad.... I hope we can have at least one more year of BW. Nothing lives forever in this world but this time BW got killed by their own creator. I think even the biggest optimists (which I was) about BW future can see now that its all over or will be over in the next year.
I hate Blizzard with all my heart from this day and vow to not buy SC2 or any other new game they develop in the future. You just couldnt left BW alone.
^^^^^^I Totally agree.
I will pray to the lord that Brood War will stay. I just cannot believe this, but I have to remember these are unconfirmed rumors.
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rumors are so dramatic
especially "unconfirmed" rumors haha
cute
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On October 13 2010 10:15 zenMaster wrote:
Sadly this is proof that real e-sports can never last long-term. With probably 1 more year left, BW you will always be the best e-sports ever lived.
Edit:
oh yeah, fuck sc2, blob on blob, MBS, smart-cast, auto-mine, hold move hold move micro, watered down skills to simulate balance.
ah yes, 10 years down the line we'll remember how we said goodbye to BW temporarily/permanently with such grace that the general public saw and thought 'my god, maybe I was wrong about these killer games after all, maybe this e-sports thing could have gone somewhere'
or maybe not!
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Welp, BW might just disappear sooner than we thought(in the next two years probably at this rate).
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Why do you guys think Blizzard/Gretech hate team leagues? Not saying your wrong, just wondering what they are doing that gives the impression. I understand they don't want bw team leagues competing with them but it just seems weird..
also, there is a nice team tournament being held by gom tonight and going over the next 2 days with 8 of the korean sc2 teams.... just don't really know why they would want teams to be less of a factor, unless they don't want the former kespa involved teams involved.. even then, just tell them no..
sorry, I'm not really in the loop here..
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On October 13 2010 11:24 BraveGhost wrote:
Why do you guys think Blizzard/Gretech hate team leagues?
Perhaps because they directly stated that in an article that was posted a while back.
Edit: Oh, you were looking for reasons. The biggest one is that Blizzard wants to have a minimal investment and Gretech will pretty much do whatever Blizzard wants them to.
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This thread makes me so sad. As a SC2 and BW fan, seeing the community devolve to the point of "fuck Blizzard" and "BW is dead; accept it" is depressing; the constant potshots and bitter fury directed by e-sports fans against other e-sports fans is frankly disgusting and inexcusable in my eyes. We are all supporters of e-sports, in our own way; whether our preferred game for that is BW or SC2, we are one community. Attacking one another solves nothing, and only further hurts the scene. No SC2 fan's going to get involved in BW if all they hear is "SC2 is a lame, easy game. SC2 fans are mindless noobs." And no BW fan is going to get involved in SC2 if all they hear is "BW is lame and old and has bad graphics. Move on, losers."
For my part, I see no reason why SC2 and BW can't co-exist peacefully; and the fact that corporate powers are denying the fans that possible future is indeed a disgrace. I still maintain hope that that vision can still be a reality in one form or another; and I think Blizzard at least in some respects agrees with me.
Apart from that, I think at least some people are overreacting. Things like prominent players switching games, a reduction in team and player numbers, and new sponsors trying to entice players to switch would all have happened as long as there was a healthy SC2 scene period, regardless of the IP rights thing. They don't in and of themselves spell the end of BW. As long as Proleague is alive in some form, the BW scene will continue.
But even if the sky is falling and the world's about to end, this hatred, these insults and stupid comparisons are just not okay.
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On October 13 2010 11:24 BraveGhost wrote:
Why do you guys think Blizzard/Gretech hate team leagues? Not saying your wrong, just wondering what they are doing that gives the impression. I understand they don't want bw team leagues competing with them but it just seems weird..
also, there is a nice team tournament being held by gom tonight and going over the next 2 days with 8 of the korean sc2 teams.... just don't really know why they would want teams to be less of a factor, unless they don't want the former kespa involved teams involved.. even then, just tell them no..
sorry, I'm not really in the loop here..
Entirely speculation here. Probably the price tag for teams are too high, by turning to individual basis, smaller companies can have an easier time sponsoring to get their logo on player's jersey or something. It's also a lot easier to sell than trying to convince huge multi-billion companies to sponsor a team.
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EPT
