EPTWho's hot? Bisu's not. - Page 17
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renzy
Canada781 Posts
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Xiphos
Canada7507 Posts
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agarangu
Chile274 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + Yes, Flash is Sasuke, Byakuya or Goku in my head. + Show Spoiler + And yes, I still think Jaedong is the best Zerg who is having a bad time, and that's all. | ||
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GGTeMpLaR
United States7226 Posts
seriously I want to know why the OP hates bisu so much so what if he's got way more fanboys at 17th than most do in top 10 also, you act like that is the only way to measure a players talent in starcraft, let alone go so far as to act like it's the only valid way of measuring how popular a progamer should be and what's up with the thread title? you jealous of him or something because he actually is hot? | ||
BisuDagger
Bisutopia19300 Posts
On February 20 2011 05:02 agarangu wrote: I'm a Flash fan and I see a lot of anime, and that's why I love the great moment of Bisu right now. It's like that rival who was defeated once and then forgotten, who has returned stronger and scarier to prove his worth and challenge the main character again. And I also like to see Flash, Bisu and Jaedong at the top 3. The three best warriors representing their races, leading the way of those who are behind them. + Show Spoiler + Yes, Flash is Sasuke, Byakuya or Goku in my head. + Show Spoiler + And yes, I still think Jaedong is the best Zerg who is having a bad time, and that's all. Bisu is Vegeta? That's over 9000! I would like to see an anime btw these three. I'm wondering who JD is as an anime character too. Put some thought into this and you could make an epic new thread. | ||
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Mortality
United States4790 Posts
On February 20 2011 05:02 agarangu wrote: I'm a Flash fan and I see a lot of anime, and that's why I love the great moment of Bisu right now. It's like that rival who was defeated once and then forgotten, who has returned stronger and scarier to prove his worth and challenge the main character again. And I also like to see Flash, Bisu and Jaedong at the top 3. The three best warriors representing their races, leading the way of those who are behind them. + Show Spoiler + Yes, Flash is Sasuke, Byakuya or Goku in my head. + Show Spoiler + And yes, I still think Jaedong is the best Zerg who is having a bad time, and that's all. LOOOOOOOOOOOOL Flash is Sasuke. Just goes to show how much Kishimoto hates his own main character. | ||
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Elefanto
Switzerland3584 Posts
On February 20 2011 06:04 BisuDagger wrote: Bisu is Vegeta? That's over 9000! I would like to see an anime btw these three. I'm wondering who JD is as an anime character too. Put some thought into this and you could make an epic new thread. Jaedong would be piccolo, isn't that obvious? | ||
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Arnstein
Norway3381 Posts
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ArvickHero
10387 Posts
On February 19 2011 21:15 TwoToneTerran wrote: If you want me to rephrase that, 2 starleagues in the same season. Flash won titles in 3 back to back seasons. Bisu's peak play isn't close to Flash's peak play. That's how you distinguish great players from a bonjwa. It's such a biased statement to just assume someone's peak play is just as good as a better player's. Hey guys Nal_rA's peak play was just as good as Savior's because they were really good at the same time despite the fact that Savior beat him a lot and won more leagues. You can love Bisu all you want and I am totally okay with that, but he's done nothing to prove that he is or ever has been as good as Flash at his best. No one has done that because we JUST crowned him bonjwa a couple months ago. Bisu consistently slaughtered Flash and many other Terrans during his "peak" period, whereas Nal_rA never beat Savior for more than 2 games in a row. Bisu has shown his moments of pure brilliance even during his slumps, and during his peak/good form he was able to reverse build order losses and imba maps/disadvantageous situations through his sheer force, much like God Young Ho. Bisu may have been nowhere near as consistent as Jaedong and Flash, but you cannot deny Bisu's "peak play" rivaling that of a bonjwa. | ||
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GiantEnemyCrab
Canada503 Posts
![[image loading]](http://dotallyrad.files.wordpress.com/2008/07/bisu.jpg) User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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Murderotica
Vatican City State2594 Posts
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infinitestory
United States4053 Posts
+ Show Spoiler +
The bottom of the list doesn't surprise me at all. They're all obviously peaking. But Bisu is closer to his peak than Flash now. In general, I think this method doesn't represent a player being "past his prime" so much as players who are slumping vs. streaking (and I don't mean that in the sense of inconsistency). | ||
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Lightwip
United States5497 Posts
On February 20 2011 05:02 agarangu wrote: I'm a Flash fan and I see a lot of anime, and that's why I love the great moment of Bisu right now. It's like that rival who was defeated once and then forgotten, who has returned stronger and scarier to prove his worth and challenge the main character again. And I also like to see Flash, Bisu and Jaedong at the top 3. The three best warriors representing their races, leading the way of those who are behind them. + Show Spoiler + Yes, Flash is Sasuke, Byakuya or Goku in my head. + Show Spoiler + And yes, I still think Jaedong is the best Zerg who is having a bad time, and that's all. I would say that it's more like Bisu = Goku because he is a super saiyan(Flash can't be Goku, he's evil). Stork = Vegeta because he is also a super saiyan and rivals Bisu, and because he's less skilled even though he has been around for longer. Jaedong = Buu, he has regenerative abilities and is usually angry in battle. Flash = Evil Buu, because he's strong and evil(read: boring) and the counterpart to JD/Buu. | ||
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Murderotica
Vatican City State2594 Posts
On February 20 2011 08:08 Lightwip wrote: I would say that it's more like Bisu = Goku because he is a super saiyan(Flash can't be Goku, he's evil). Stork = Vegeta because he is also a super saiyan and rivals Bisu, and because he's less skilled even though he has been around for longer. Jaedong = Buu, he has regenerative abilities and is usually angry in battle. Flash = Evil Buu, because he's strong and evil(read: boring) and the counterpart to JD/Buu. I would say Flash is more like Cell, because he seems to like the intellectual approach more than brute force. Jaedong should be Frieza. | ||
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nayumi
Australia6499 Posts
On February 20 2011 07:36 infinitestory wrote: The "ELO Peak Gap method" reapplied now, to every player with >= 2100 ELO + Show Spoiler +
The bottom of the list doesn't surprise me at all. They're all obviously peaking. But Bisu is closer to his peak than Flash now. In general, I think this method doesn't represent a player being "past his prime" so much as players who are slumping vs. streaking (and I don't mean that in the sense of inconsistency). to be fair, Flash's peak is so freaking ridiculous that even if he is 100 points away from it he's still S-class :/ Leta Calm Best  | ||
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_romantic
United States455 Posts
On February 20 2011 04:47 renzy wrote: All of you saying Bisu is going to drop 80 ELO points by May, you just wait. Bisu is going to return to what he was during the Golden Age of Protoss and go on a rampage and rape everyone. GO BISU! Won't happen. I think the next season of maps will be a lot more balanced, and reward late-game oriented, defensive play. This would be better for the development of BW strategy. | ||
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Mortality
United States4790 Posts
On February 20 2011 11:23 l0st_romantic wrote: Won't happen. I think the next season of maps will be a lot more balanced, and reward late-game oriented, defensive play. This would be better for the development of BW strategy. In what way? I don't think that this is true at all. Balance is of course an obvious goal, but balance is not the same thing as rewarding late-game defensive play. Late game defensive play is optimal for strategic innovation says who? The type of maps that are ideal for strategic innovation are maps that maximize the number of viable strategies. On such a map, "spear" or "shield" won't necessarily -- or even likely -- be favored. Are you sure that you aren't just hoping for the types of maps that you believe best suit Flash? And, that's not even entirely true, really. Nor is it true that Bisu is "only" good on maps where aggressive play is favored. Map stats: + Show Spoiler + Fighting Spirit: Bisu: 23-10 Flash: 21-10 #1 Jaedong: 23-8 Judgment Day: Flash: 6-3 Bisu: 1-1 #1 Shine: 11-2 Colosseum II: Bisu: 5-1 Flash: 3-2 #1 Hiya: 8-1 Medusa: Bisu: 25-6 Flash: 10-3 #1 Bisu Neo Medusa: Flash 10-1 Bisu: 6-2 #1 Flash Katrina: Flash: 13-2 Bisu: 8-3 #1 Flash Katrina SE: Bisu: 3-1 Flash: 2-1 #1 Jaedong: 9-1 Several key points here: 1.) Flash and Bisu are often both very strong on the same maps. 2.) Success is not limited to large, defensive maps. 3.) Whether or not Flash or Bisu does well on a particular map has more to do with: a.) balance issues and b.) how readily they can adapt their style to it. For example, a key issue for Bisu in PvZ is that his style works better when the Zerg has to travel further to achieve his 3rd base because Bisu is good at harassment and spreading the Zerg out. For Flash the key is his unusually early 3rd base timing, so maps where a 3rd base essentially comes for free (Judgment Day) or where 3rd base is more difficult to secure are disadvantageous. 4.) And yet? Medusa is considered Bisu's best map and Flash was a real monster on Katrina. Why? Because neither of these players are so one-dimensional as to need a map to fit certain qualifications. Flash didn't have a "bad season" because the maps are bad for him. Proleague is proof of this. Flash is a monster on basically every map. Flash had a "bad season" because he did not play like a bonjwa in his Starleague games last December. That is all. | ||
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overt
United States9006 Posts
On February 20 2011 11:23 l0st_romantic wrote: Won't happen. I think the next season of maps will be a lot more balanced, and reward late-game oriented, defensive play. This would be better for the development of BW strategy. Just wanted to say you're kind of spewing Bisu hate. While it's certainly possible that with the new maps Bisu will go down drastically in ELO I can calmly say that I don't think it's all that likely. "Imba maps" don't suddenly allow a player to catch fire and play like a freaking god. Bisu passed Jaedong in ELO. Granted, JD was slumping but still that's pretty huge. He's practically carrying SKT on his back in Winner's League picking up multiple kills in every game, sitting at the top of the list of most all-kills in SWL. Do you honestly think this is all because of "imba" maps? Bisu has been looking strong in most of his games and honestly I think he could take Flash in a bo5 right now. Sure, I'd still favor Flash but I think Bisu could definitely eek out a win over him. I hope that, after the new maps are released, if Bisu continues to play at such a high level you'll keep your word and rework your OP. | ||
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_romantic
United States455 Posts
On February 20 2011 15:24 overt wrote: Just wanted to say you're kind of spewing Bisu hate. While it's certainly possible that with the new maps Bisu will go down drastically in ELO I can calmly say that I don't think it's all that likely. "Imba maps" don't suddenly allow a player to catch fire and play like a freaking god. Bisu passed Jaedong in ELO. Granted, JD was slumping but still that's pretty huge. He's practically carrying SKT on his back in Winner's League picking up multiple kills in every game, sitting at the top of the list of most all-kills in SWL. Do you honestly think this is all because of "imba" maps? Bisu has been looking strong in most of his games and honestly I think he could take Flash in a bo5 right now. Sure, I'd still favor Flash but I think Bisu could definitely eek out a win over him. I hope that, after the new maps are released, if Bisu continues to play at such a high level you'll keep your word and rework your OP. All I'm doing here is borrowing all the logic of those who dared to say that Flash's dominance last year was due to imba maps. And I'm applying it forward, and to Bisu. It's true, maps were a factor. However, maps I would say do not favor a race, they favor a playstyle. Right now the maps do not differ much strategically from last season's maps. Rush distances are similar, attack pathway numbers are similar, and overall it favors not careful students of maps and timings but rather harass-happy and chaos-heavy players. That is bad for the development of Brood War. Better maps would be maps that have completely different timings and introduce novel concepts, like Monty Hall or Dreamliner. Fortress is another good example. Tears of the Moon (forces P to adopt 1 base strategies) is also good. Bisu would not do well on a map like ToTM, for example, because he is the last protoss I would expect to actually come up with a decent way to deal with the map. Remember what Kingdom had to say about Bisu? In the SKT house, it is Best who actually comes up with most of the strategies. Bisu is just better at executing them. | ||
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_romantic
United States455 Posts
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