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On May 19 2010 22:12 Monsen wrote:Show nested quote +On May 19 2010 21:15 d_so wrote:On May 19 2010 20:47 Monsen wrote:
That's kind of my point. The problem is that you automatically assume an intention behind this. I think he just didn't have the multitasking. His macro from the gates at 10 was lacking too, which supports my point to some extent.
While darktreb has a point in his claim that Snow might have made the Nexus for it's potential to be a full mining base should the opportunity arise, you don't.
Snow could have blocked Flash just as easily by building his gates in the spot of the Nexus. it's more like a combination of the two (blocking the CC + the potential for becoming a full mining base) that explains why the 11oclock was such a threat. combining those two aspects increases the opportunity cost by a huge margin and forces flash to attack that position faster than it would like. it also allows snow to keep the fight in an uncomfortable, uphill position for flash with lots of scv losses from recalls. i think to say he didn't have the macro to spam p at a nexus for five minutes is pretty much absurd. you don't build an expansion and then just forget about it, not at this level. no, he intentionally did not make probes, kinda like how he intentionally built arbiters after his fleet beacon, and even if we can't completely pinpoint what that intention was, i think it's safe to say there was an intention. the whole game showed careful thought and preparation, there's no reason to single out this single aspect that actually became a turning point in the late game to be something that happened nonchalantly or accidentally. edit: seems like a few other posters beat me to the punch regarding your lack of thought. oh well So you're saying him not building probes at 10 "became a turning point in late game". Interesting. So there was a "turning point in late game" as in "Flash was ahead until then". And the reason for that was "not building probes at 10". Gosh I'm really ashamed at my "lack of thought". Also I really would ask most of you to really identify what others are actually saying, instead of just skipping over posts and venting. It makes you look dumb. Noone ever claimed that Snow "macroed badly". Noone ever claimed that it's "hard to press p on a Nexus". Noone ever claimed that taking 10 wasn't planned or advantageous for Snow. I'm just talking about the lack of probes. Not building probes does not make 10 "such a threat". Not building probes does not "allows snow to keep the fight in an uncomfortable, uphill position for flash with lots of scv losses from recalls". Not building probes does not "increase the opportunity cost by a huge margin and forces flash to attack that position faster than it would like". I said that Snows macro from the gates at 10 was "lacking". He certainly did not use them to their full capacity. Which reinforces my original point- While pressing P is a task most of us are capable of, handling the full blown 5+ base multitask in a game versus Flash is not exactly easy. So not F-keybinding your n-th expo and thus not making probes there is certainly a possibility. @Infernal: I'm fully aware that neither you nor me can (or should) claim infailability in here. None of us can know the exacty reason for the lack of probes- it's all speculative. While Snows game was brilliant without question, I still think that when playing such a demanding game there is room for non-perfection. Maybe I'm wrong and everything Snow did was planned out and perfect. Most posters here certainly seem to think so. Also I'm sorry in case my remark is turning your thread into something you don't like. I hope discussion is welcome in a "thoughts"-thread.
lol you're the only one emphasizing the lack of probes. we're talking about the nexus that was built. we're saying that the nexus without probes was intentional. i'm saying that that the nexus's existence raised the opportunity cost of the 11 oclock since it represented an expansion half built while also blocking any CC Flash might build. this forces flash to attack earlier than he would like, committing forces to a location he had assumed would be his own while all snow had to do was keep recalling into the 11 oclock expansion. so stop changing the point of emphasis to suit your needs when everyone else is discussing something else.
and yeah, you're original point about lack of macro leading to no probes being built for five minutes is pretty absurd. nothing you've said really reinforces it.
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On May 19 2010 06:15 polgas wrote:
I do not doubt Snow's cleverness in this game, but if Flash continued to turtle to protect his upper left expansions instead of losing his mech army attacking south... Also, even during that attack, it looked like his tanks just didn't seige in time before the Snow's zealots reached them. It just seems to me a cautious Flash still feels unbeatable even with all the mindgames the opponent brings.
Flash plays vs carriers by moving out and killing a bunch of bases. He takes advantage of the weak Protoss ground army to kill Protoss's bases and then overwhelm the P with macro. Snow tricked Flash into this mentality by showing carriers which he didn't fully commit to. Flash moves out to attack the bases, as usual, and gets crushed by mass zealots/goons. A tank/goliath army is weaker than a tank/vulture army.
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On May 19 2010 22:26 d_so wrote:Show nested quote +On May 19 2010 22:12 Monsen wrote:On May 19 2010 21:15 d_so wrote:On May 19 2010 20:47 Monsen wrote:
That's kind of my point. The problem is that you automatically assume an intention behind this. I think he just didn't have the multitasking. His macro from the gates at 10 was lacking too, which supports my point to some extent.
While darktreb has a point in his claim that Snow might have made the Nexus for it's potential to be a full mining base should the opportunity arise, you don't.
Snow could have blocked Flash just as easily by building his gates in the spot of the Nexus. it's more like a combination of the two (blocking the CC + the potential for becoming a full mining base) that explains why the 11oclock was such a threat. combining those two aspects increases the opportunity cost by a huge margin and forces flash to attack that position faster than it would like. it also allows snow to keep the fight in an uncomfortable, uphill position for flash with lots of scv losses from recalls. i think to say he didn't have the macro to spam p at a nexus for five minutes is pretty much absurd. you don't build an expansion and then just forget about it, not at this level. no, he intentionally did not make probes, kinda like how he intentionally built arbiters after his fleet beacon, and even if we can't completely pinpoint what that intention was, i think it's safe to say there was an intention. the whole game showed careful thought and preparation, there's no reason to single out this single aspect that actually became a turning point in the late game to be something that happened nonchalantly or accidentally. edit: seems like a few other posters beat me to the punch regarding your lack of thought. oh well So you're saying him not building probes at 10 "became a turning point in late game". Interesting. So there was a "turning point in late game" as in "Flash was ahead until then". And the reason for that was "not building probes at 10". Gosh I'm really ashamed at my "lack of thought". Also I really would ask most of you to really identify what others are actually saying, instead of just skipping over posts and venting. It makes you look dumb. Noone ever claimed that Snow "macroed badly". Noone ever claimed that it's "hard to press p on a Nexus". Noone ever claimed that taking 10 wasn't planned or advantageous for Snow. I'm just talking about the lack of probes. Not building probes does not make 10 "such a threat". Not building probes does not "allows snow to keep the fight in an uncomfortable, uphill position for flash with lots of scv losses from recalls". Not building probes does not "increase the opportunity cost by a huge margin and forces flash to attack that position faster than it would like". I said that Snows macro from the gates at 10 was "lacking". He certainly did not use them to their full capacity. Which reinforces my original point- While pressing P is a task most of us are capable of, handling the full blown 5+ base multitask in a game versus Flash is not exactly easy. So not F-keybinding your n-th expo and thus not making probes there is certainly a possibility. @Infernal: I'm fully aware that neither you nor me can (or should) claim infailability in here. None of us can know the exacty reason for the lack of probes- it's all speculative. While Snows game was brilliant without question, I still think that when playing such a demanding game there is room for non-perfection. Maybe I'm wrong and everything Snow did was planned out and perfect. Most posters here certainly seem to think so. Also I'm sorry in case my remark is turning your thread into something you don't like. I hope discussion is welcome in a "thoughts"-thread. lol you're the only one emphasizing the lack of probes. we're talking about the nexus that was built. we're saying that the nexus without probes was intentional. i'm saying that that the nexus's existence raised the opportunity cost of the 11 oclock since it represented an expansion half built while also blocking any CC Flash might build. this forces flash to attack earlier than he would like, committing forces to a location he had assumed would be his own while all snow had to do was keep recalling into the 11 oclock expansion. so stop changing the point of emphasis to suit your needs when everyone else is discussing something else. and yeah, you're original point about lack of macro leading to no probes being built for five minutes is pretty absurd. nothing you've said really reinforces it.
Let me help you out here.
1. In his original post Infernal claimed that, among all the other brilliant moves Snow pulled in this game, not building probes at 10 was just as intentional and brilliant.
2. I disagreed, and basically called it a matter of lacking multitask.
This is where we can agree to disagree since there's no way to find out who's right.
Now you come in and a) make several claims *cough*turningpoint*cough* and go on to tell me what I'm talking about in the post of mine that you're replying to.
"Everyone is talking about the Nexus"- when my post is the one that started the discussion.
While I certainly reinforced my notion by pointing out a) that Snow could easily have planned to transfer probes, and b) that his multitasking seemed to be at it's very limit (indicated by the weaker macro from his 10 o clock gates) the only thing you have going for your agrument is the "increased opportunity costs".
In less poker like terms, the threat of Snow starting to mine in some later stage of the game. The "blocking" is not in favor of your argument at all, since just gates/units would accomplish the same. Weighted against the actual benefits of mining this theory seems rather weak to me.
So let's make things clear here:
Facts:
1. Snow builds a Nexus and several pylons/gates at the 10(11) main. Clearly he claims the base as his, and sets up infrastructure to be able to attack/flank from there.
2. Snow builds no probes there.
Now we have 2 Theories dealing with the issue of "the probeless Nexus".
Theory 1 (as far as I can make out):
Snow tries to make Flash think he mines there without actually doing so, in order to force an earlier attack.
Pro: If Flashs takes the bait, he can be thrown off his timing, without Snow risking the expense of vulture raided probes. (I guess that's your point.)
Contra: Cost of Nexus, no benefits from mining.
Theory 2
Snow's multitask is not up to the, haha, task. He might have planned to transfer probes from somewhere else, but couldn't because Flash already had fortified the natural.
Pro:Mining is good. Since he has to defend the base anyway, and is building units there, why not "risk" mining.
Snows macro at the gates in question seems (to me, at least) weak, indicating a player at the limits of his multitasking ability.
Snow is playing Flash, who makes any mortal wet his pants.
Contra: Snow is a Progamer, who makes 99.9% of mortals wet their pants. Progamers don't "forget to build probes".
Sorry, my theory still seems more likely to me.
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+ Show Spoiler +On May 19 2010 23:53 Monsen wrote:Show nested quote +On May 19 2010 22:26 d_so wrote:On May 19 2010 22:12 Monsen wrote:On May 19 2010 21:15 d_so wrote:On May 19 2010 20:47 Monsen wrote:
That's kind of my point. The problem is that you automatically assume an intention behind this. I think he just didn't have the multitasking. His macro from the gates at 10 was lacking too, which supports my point to some extent.
While darktreb has a point in his claim that Snow might have made the Nexus for it's potential to be a full mining base should the opportunity arise, you don't.
Snow could have blocked Flash just as easily by building his gates in the spot of the Nexus. it's more like a combination of the two (blocking the CC + the potential for becoming a full mining base) that explains why the 11oclock was such a threat. combining those two aspects increases the opportunity cost by a huge margin and forces flash to attack that position faster than it would like. it also allows snow to keep the fight in an uncomfortable, uphill position for flash with lots of scv losses from recalls. i think to say he didn't have the macro to spam p at a nexus for five minutes is pretty much absurd. you don't build an expansion and then just forget about it, not at this level. no, he intentionally did not make probes, kinda like how he intentionally built arbiters after his fleet beacon, and even if we can't completely pinpoint what that intention was, i think it's safe to say there was an intention. the whole game showed careful thought and preparation, there's no reason to single out this single aspect that actually became a turning point in the late game to be something that happened nonchalantly or accidentally. edit: seems like a few other posters beat me to the punch regarding your lack of thought. oh well So you're saying him not building probes at 10 "became a turning point in late game". Interesting. So there was a "turning point in late game" as in "Flash was ahead until then". And the reason for that was "not building probes at 10". Gosh I'm really ashamed at my "lack of thought". Also I really would ask most of you to really identify what others are actually saying, instead of just skipping over posts and venting. It makes you look dumb. Noone ever claimed that Snow "macroed badly". Noone ever claimed that it's "hard to press p on a Nexus". Noone ever claimed that taking 10 wasn't planned or advantageous for Snow. I'm just talking about the lack of probes. Not building probes does not make 10 "such a threat". Not building probes does not "allows snow to keep the fight in an uncomfortable, uphill position for flash with lots of scv losses from recalls". Not building probes does not "increase the opportunity cost by a huge margin and forces flash to attack that position faster than it would like". I said that Snows macro from the gates at 10 was "lacking". He certainly did not use them to their full capacity. Which reinforces my original point- While pressing P is a task most of us are capable of, handling the full blown 5+ base multitask in a game versus Flash is not exactly easy. So not F-keybinding your n-th expo and thus not making probes there is certainly a possibility. @Infernal: I'm fully aware that neither you nor me can (or should) claim infailability in here. None of us can know the exacty reason for the lack of probes- it's all speculative. While Snows game was brilliant without question, I still think that when playing such a demanding game there is room for non-perfection. Maybe I'm wrong and everything Snow did was planned out and perfect. Most posters here certainly seem to think so. Also I'm sorry in case my remark is turning your thread into something you don't like. I hope discussion is welcome in a "thoughts"-thread. lol you're the only one emphasizing the lack of probes. we're talking about the nexus that was built. we're saying that the nexus without probes was intentional. i'm saying that that the nexus's existence raised the opportunity cost of the 11 oclock since it represented an expansion half built while also blocking any CC Flash might build. this forces flash to attack earlier than he would like, committing forces to a location he had assumed would be his own while all snow had to do was keep recalling into the 11 oclock expansion. so stop changing the point of emphasis to suit your needs when everyone else is discussing something else. and yeah, you're original point about lack of macro leading to no probes being built for five minutes is pretty absurd. nothing you've said really reinforces it. Let me help you out here. 1. In his original post Infernal claimed that, among all the other brilliant moves Snow pulled in this game, not building probes at 10 was just as intentional and brilliant. 2. I disagreed, and basically called it a matter of lacking multitask. This is where we can agree to disagree since there's no way to find out who's right. Now you come in and a) make several claims *cough*turningpoint*cough* and go on to tell me what I'm talking about in the post of mine that you're replying to. "Everyone is talking about the Nexus"- when my post is the one that started the discussion. While I certainly reinforced my notion by pointing out a) that Snow could easily have planned to transfer probes, and b) that his multitasking seemed to be at it's very limit (indicated by the weaker macro from his 10 o clock gates) the only thing you have going for your agrument is the "increased opportunity costs". In less poker like terms, the threat of Snow starting to mine in some later stage of the game. The "blocking" is not in favor of your argument at all, since just gates/units would accomplish the same. Weighted against the actual benefits of mining this theory seems rather weak to me. So let's make things clear here: Facts: 1. Snow builds a Nexus and several pylons/gates at the 10(11) main. Clearly he claims the base as his, and sets up infrastructure to be able to attack/flank from there. 2. Snow builds no probes there. Now we have 2 Theories dealing with the issue of "the probeless Nexus". Theory 1 (as far as I can make out): Snow tries to make Flash think he mines there without actually doing so, in order to force an earlier attack. Pro: If Flashs takes the bait, he can be thrown off his timing, without Snow risking the expense of vulture raided probes. (I guess that's your point.) Contra: Cost of Nexus, no benefits from mining. Theory 2 Snow's multitask is not up to the, haha, task. He might have planned to transfer probes from somewhere else, but couldn't because Flash already had fortified the natural. Pro:Mining is good. Since he has to defend the base anyway, and is building units there, why not "risk" mining. Snows macro at the gates in question seems (to me, at least) weak, indicating a player at the limits of his multitasking ability. Snow is playing Flash, who makes any mortal wet his pants. Contra: Snow is a Progamer, who makes 99.9% of mortals wet their pants. Progamers don't "forget to build probes". Sorry, my theory still seems more likely to me.
In my opinion, one of the most important factors here is the order in which Snow built his buildings at 11. Snow first made pylon, then a cannon and a gateway. Only after those he built nexus and more cannons/gateways, To me, this clearly indicates that Snow wanted to delay Flash with the units and buildings being there as long as possible. Just like Infernal said this also forced Flash to waste scans on DTs, which fits very well into Snow plan.
If Snow's plan to make some profit off that 11 o'clock base, he most probably would have first build the nexus (possibly pylon before) then make cannons and gateways. That way he could've make probes much earlier to get some resources.
Snow's multitask is not up to the, haha, task. He might have planned to transfer probes from somewhere else, but couldn't because Flash already had fortified the natural.
This is simply impossible. That whole game was planned for Flash and it was able to work because of the fact that Flash played as he usually does. Snow knew in which pattern Flash would take his expos and he also knew that transfering probes at 11 o'clock would be impossible. Did you see the timing when Snow made the pylon there? In VOD it was 12:10, Snow's observers and units were able to see that Flash was indeed turtling and that the most likely expo that Flash would take next is 10 o'clock natural. Flash already had tanks, vultures and turret to protect that location. (and thus making probe transfer impossible)
Snow is playing Flash, who makes any mortal wet his pants.
Are you saying that the reason to probes' lack of existance was that Snow was scared to play against Flash? Snow practised only to snipe Flash and he was was as prepared, both mentally and strategically, as you can be to take out the best player in the world in ace match. 11 o'clock's one and only purpose was to delay Flash. Minerals and gas' aren't the only resources in starcraft, time is also very important. Snow not building probes there wasn't arbitrary thing, it was part of his plan, just like the rest of that game.
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
I'm actually astonished at just how hard players have to work to get a game off of Flash.
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On May 19 2010 23:01 vnlegend wrote:Show nested quote +On May 19 2010 06:15 polgas wrote:
I do not doubt Snow's cleverness in this game, but if Flash continued to turtle to protect his upper left expansions instead of losing his mech army attacking south... Also, even during that attack, it looked like his tanks just didn't seige in time before the Snow's zealots reached them. It just seems to me a cautious Flash still feels unbeatable even with all the mindgames the opponent brings. Flash plays vs carriers by moving out and killing a bunch of bases. He takes advantage of the weak Protoss ground army to kill Protoss's bases and then overwhelm the P with macro. Snow tricked Flash into this mentality by showing carriers which he didn't fully commit to. Flash moves out to attack the bases, as usual, and gets crushed by mass zealots/goons. A tank/goliath army is weaker than a tank/vulture army.
This man spoke my mind haha. Yea, I was watching the vid, and flash finds Snow going carriers. Almost instantly, he starts making rounds of goliathes, and moments later, he pushes out with a large goliath/tank army, probably expecting to crush a measly ground force. But snow basically streams huge rounds of zealots and dragoons, and finishes off Flash's army with a huge wave of zealots that Goliaths and Tanks are extremely weak against. Right then and there, Flash lost the game.
Brilliant idea by Snow, but Flash's previous games probably shook his mentality; Pure went carriers 2 out of 3 (maybe even 3/3) games, and he had just lost to effort. Once he saw all the carrier tech, he probably felt very comfortable and mechanically fell into his anti-carrier strategy, not expecting Snow to trick him and mass zealots.
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On May 20 2010 01:41 Plexa wrote:
I'm actually astonished at just how hard players have to work to get a game off of Flash.
agreed.
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On May 19 2010 23:01 vnlegend wrote:Show nested quote +On May 19 2010 06:15 polgas wrote:
I do not doubt Snow's cleverness in this game, but if Flash continued to turtle to protect his upper left expansions instead of losing his mech army attacking south... Also, even during that attack, it looked like his tanks just didn't seige in time before the Snow's zealots reached them. It just seems to me a cautious Flash still feels unbeatable even with all the mindgames the opponent brings. Flash plays vs carriers by moving out and killing a bunch of bases. He takes advantage of the weak Protoss ground army to kill Protoss's bases and then overwhelm the P with macro. Snow tricked Flash into this mentality by showing carriers which he didn't fully commit to. Flash moves out to attack the bases, as usual, and gets crushed by mass zealots/goons. A tank/goliath army is weaker than a tank/vulture army.
True, like infernal analyzed. Coupled with Flash's detection deficiency, the ambush worked great. These recent games though I think will lead to one dreaded conclusion... Flash will play super turtle in the finals.
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Excellent post & read. I wince when I think about that game :/
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On May 19 2010 23:53 Monsen wrote:Show nested quote +On May 19 2010 22:26 d_so wrote:On May 19 2010 22:12 Monsen wrote:On May 19 2010 21:15 d_so wrote:On May 19 2010 20:47 Monsen wrote:
That's kind of my point. The problem is that you automatically assume an intention behind this. I think he just didn't have the multitasking. His macro from the gates at 10 was lacking too, which supports my point to some extent.
While darktreb has a point in his claim that Snow might have made the Nexus for it's potential to be a full mining base should the opportunity arise, you don't.
Snow could have blocked Flash just as easily by building his gates in the spot of the Nexus. it's more like a combination of the two (blocking the CC + the potential for becoming a full mining base) that explains why the 11oclock was such a threat. combining those two aspects increases the opportunity cost by a huge margin and forces flash to attack that position faster than it would like. it also allows snow to keep the fight in an uncomfortable, uphill position for flash with lots of scv losses from recalls. i think to say he didn't have the macro to spam p at a nexus for five minutes is pretty much absurd. you don't build an expansion and then just forget about it, not at this level. no, he intentionally did not make probes, kinda like how he intentionally built arbiters after his fleet beacon, and even if we can't completely pinpoint what that intention was, i think it's safe to say there was an intention. the whole game showed careful thought and preparation, there's no reason to single out this single aspect that actually became a turning point in the late game to be something that happened nonchalantly or accidentally. edit: seems like a few other posters beat me to the punch regarding your lack of thought. oh well So you're saying him not building probes at 10 "became a turning point in late game". Interesting. So there was a "turning point in late game" as in "Flash was ahead until then". And the reason for that was "not building probes at 10". Gosh I'm really ashamed at my "lack of thought". Also I really would ask most of you to really identify what others are actually saying, instead of just skipping over posts and venting. It makes you look dumb. Noone ever claimed that Snow "macroed badly". Noone ever claimed that it's "hard to press p on a Nexus". Noone ever claimed that taking 10 wasn't planned or advantageous for Snow. I'm just talking about the lack of probes. Not building probes does not make 10 "such a threat". Not building probes does not "allows snow to keep the fight in an uncomfortable, uphill position for flash with lots of scv losses from recalls". Not building probes does not "increase the opportunity cost by a huge margin and forces flash to attack that position faster than it would like". I said that Snows macro from the gates at 10 was "lacking". He certainly did not use them to their full capacity. Which reinforces my original point- While pressing P is a task most of us are capable of, handling the full blown 5+ base multitask in a game versus Flash is not exactly easy. So not F-keybinding your n-th expo and thus not making probes there is certainly a possibility. @Infernal: I'm fully aware that neither you nor me can (or should) claim infailability in here. None of us can know the exacty reason for the lack of probes- it's all speculative. While Snows game was brilliant without question, I still think that when playing such a demanding game there is room for non-perfection. Maybe I'm wrong and everything Snow did was planned out and perfect. Most posters here certainly seem to think so. Also I'm sorry in case my remark is turning your thread into something you don't like. I hope discussion is welcome in a "thoughts"-thread. lol you're the only one emphasizing the lack of probes. we're talking about the nexus that was built. we're saying that the nexus without probes was intentional. i'm saying that that the nexus's existence raised the opportunity cost of the 11 oclock since it represented an expansion half built while also blocking any CC Flash might build. this forces flash to attack earlier than he would like, committing forces to a location he had assumed would be his own while all snow had to do was keep recalling into the 11 oclock expansion. so stop changing the point of emphasis to suit your needs when everyone else is discussing something else. and yeah, you're original point about lack of macro leading to no probes being built for five minutes is pretty absurd. nothing you've said really reinforces it. Let me help you out here. 1. In his original post Infernal claimed that, among all the other brilliant moves Snow pulled in this game, not building probes at 10 was just as intentional and brilliant. 2. I disagreed, and basically called it a matter of lacking multitask. This is where we can agree to disagree since there's no way to find out who's right. Now you come in and a) make several claims *cough*turningpoint*cough* and go on to tell me what I'm talking about in the post of mine that you're replying to. "Everyone is talking about the Nexus"- when my post is the one that started the discussion. While I certainly reinforced my notion by pointing out a) that Snow could easily have planned to transfer probes, and b) that his multitasking seemed to be at it's very limit (indicated by the weaker macro from his 10 o clock gates) the only thing you have going for your agrument is the "increased opportunity costs". In less poker like terms, the threat of Snow starting to mine in some later stage of the game. The "blocking" is not in favor of your argument at all, since just gates/units would accomplish the same. Weighted against the actual benefits of mining this theory seems rather weak to me. So let's make things clear here: Facts: 1. Snow builds a Nexus and several pylons/gates at the 10(11) main. Clearly he claims the base as his, and sets up infrastructure to be able to attack/flank from there. 2. Snow builds no probes there. Now we have 2 Theories dealing with the issue of "the probeless Nexus". Theory 1 (as far as I can make out): Snow tries to make Flash think he mines there without actually doing so, in order to force an earlier attack. Pro: If Flashs takes the bait, he can be thrown off his timing, without Snow risking the expense of vulture raided probes. (I guess that's your point.) Contra: Cost of Nexus, no benefits from mining. Theory 2 Snow's multitask is not up to the, haha, task. He might have planned to transfer probes from somewhere else, but couldn't because Flash already had fortified the natural. Pro:Mining is good. Since he has to defend the base anyway, and is building units there, why not "risk" mining. Snows macro at the gates in question seems (to me, at least) weak, indicating a player at the limits of his multitasking ability. Snow is playing Flash, who makes any mortal wet his pants. Contra: Snow is a Progamer, who makes 99.9% of mortals wet their pants. Progamers don't "forget to build probes". Sorry, my theory still seems more likely to me.
it seems like you're getting some sort of hardon over the word "turning point", as if i misused the term. i actually did not:
as you can see, you are imposing a strict limitation to the term that appears nowhere in the definition. a turning does not necessarily mean the point at which one side goes from winning to losing. i don't understand why you are inferring my point to mean as such or why you are extrapolating so much confidence from such an inference, but you're wrong. sorry.
i wish i could help you with the rest of your flawed reasoning but i feel you are too strongly ensconced with your own point of view. if you truly cannot see that 1.) the opportunity cost of the nexus, including the blocking of flash's cc as well as the impetus it represents for flash to attack, is more than worth the price of 400 minerals late game, 2.) that the risk of the 11 oclock position is too high to be worth the making of probes since it's behind flash's tank lines and right next to an expansion of flash... then maybe it's better to hold onto your one-winged theory about lack of macro. at least you can "reinforce" it with your extensive knowledge about nervousness, feelings, and the limitations of a human's multi-tasking capabilities
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Nice try, let's just leave it at that.
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iNfeRnaL
Germany1908 Posts
On May 20 2010 01:41 Plexa wrote:
I'm actually astonished at just how hard players have to work to get a game off of Flash.
That's one of the reasons, why I wrote this.
Edit: I also wrote something else but it got lost because of some Beta.
Now don't tell me before the semis woulda been a terrible timing to release it, again? 
Fucker! <3
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Fantastic game!
Kang Min is amazing. We need more Kang Min.
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EPT
