This Saturday, there will be an event to trump all others. I am not talking about the upcoming final round of TSL qualifiers, but the most exciting Starleague series that we will see in this Starleague season. Of course I am talking about Jaedong vs Kal.
The games that they play are the most anticipated games for me, and they should be for you as well. Usually, semifinals are subordinate in hype to the finals to come. There are situations where this is not the case, and these are when great players lie on both sides of the bracket. The Nate MSL is one such situation, and the possibility of Flash vs Jaedong in the final is on everyone's mind. Jaedong is the closest thing that we have had to a bonjwa in the past couple of years, and Flash is the one who is now eclipsing him in terms of skill. The rivalry between Jaedong and Flash is one that is very exciting for fans, and creates very anticipated games. These two titans met in the OSL quarterfinals and the result was famously disappointing. This is a primary reason why a series between them is not as wildly exciting as this upcoming MSL semifinal.
Jaedong's play has not declined substantially since his super-human spring and summer season, but Flash is simply playing better. It is commonly acknowledged around the forums and elsewhere, that Flash is on top of the StarCraft world at the moment, and he cemented that with a 2-0 result against Jaedong in that quarterfinal series. I would like to hope otherwise, but a Jaedong vs Flash final is likely to be a disappointment. This is a contentious assertion, and I'm sure that it seems outrageous to some. That is fine, because that's not what I'm really here to prove to you. I'm here to tell you that Kal vs Jaedong is going to be epic.
Kal is a player who is closer in skill level to Jaedong at this very moment, after a monumental rise to prominence during the current Proleague season. The rivalry between Kal and Jaedong is not as developed as Jaedong's rivalry with the child wonder, but they do have a long history of excellent competition. ZvP is a matchup that both players are masters of, and they will be playing on a set of maps on which they are both undefeated. Both Jaedong and Kal have been having a great year, and are at the top of their respective games. It will be PvZ at the very highest level.
The Players
Kim Ku Hyun, Goojila, Kal. Since his debut in 2006, Kal has developed into a stunning player. His command of the Protoss race garnered him a position among the legendary 6 Dragons of the winter season of 08-09. Since that peak for Protoss players, many have fallen off the radar. Stork slumped in early 2009, and Jangbi suffered an apocalyptic slump from which he is only now recovering. Bisu had a strong spring and summer, but has underwhelmed fans in the latest Proleague season until recently. Free's performance also declined after the age of the dragons.
In contrast to his scaly compatriots, Kal's play has improved. It has improved a great deal. Since the end of the 08-09 Proleague season, Kal has done little but dominate. He has crushed everyone and everything sent his way, with few exceptions. The very short list of players who have bested him since October is a pantheon of some of the strongest players on the scene at the moment, such as Jaedong, Stork, and Really.
In the past couple of weeks, Kal has been replacing Calm as STX's go-to Ace. He has been displaying impeccable play with a level of consistency that is unprecedented for him. Since the start of this Proleague season, Kal has gone 22 wins and 8 losses, which is 73.33%, a very impressive winrate that has translated into his #4 rank by Elo.
Yes, you have reason to look so chipper.
While PvT is statistically Kal's strongest matchup, his PvZ is what has garnered him renown. His overall record in the matchup is currently 47 and 33, or 58.75%. This winrate does not seem to indicate phenomenal PvZ, but this is a result of his formerly trademark inconsistency. Kal's play against Zerg is known to be frightening. He has strong multitasking abilities and is capable of vicious harass-based games.
Kal is a terror right now. A force to be reckoned with. I have briefly dropped truth bombs about Kal's recent play, but if you want to know more about him as a player, his style and history, 538 has written a great article about him, which you can find here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=104513
In the booth across from Kim Ku Hyun is the legendary Lee Jae Dong. Jaedong is a player that can inspire nothing but awe in the eyes of spectators and peers alike. His rise to dominance reached its peak in 2009. It truly was Jaedong's year. He claimed successive OSLs and a very heavy mouse. He singlehandedly carried Hwaseung Oz to the bloody mountaintop of Proleague finals. The most impressive thing is that his play really did not decline all year. Despite a few ZvZ hiccups early in the 09-10 Proleague season, Jaedong has still been smashing nerds with the same alarming frequency. He has amassed a record of 26 wins and 9 losses (74.29%) since the start of the current season. There is no doubt that at #2 Elo rank, he is the best Zerg player at the moment.
ZvP is Jaedong's second strongest matchup, after his unreal ZvZ, and his record stands at 87 and 42, a 67.44% winrate. He is currently on an 11 game winning streak in the matchup, incidentally with a victory over Kal at the start of it and as his latest conquest. He has not lost a game against Protoss since the start of this season.
Kal and Jaedong have had, if not a rivalry, a long history of competition. Their current record is Kal 3, Jaedong 9. These statistics are somewhat misleading though, as many of their games have not been as asymmetrical as their record is.
In each of their last five meetings, Jaedong has won. The latest took place just on Monday, the 11th, in Proleague. It was on outsider SE, and Jaedong won using a 3 hatch hydralisk bust, which Kal scouted slightly too late. People are saying that Jaedong simply did not want to reveal any of his strategies in light of this upcoming series. There was some criticism that Kal was exposing his style to Jaedong, though through their history of conflict, I'm sure both players are well acquainted with one another's tendancies.
They met in the Avalon MSL round of 16 on July 16th, and Kal got overrun 0-2. Jaedong simply outclassed him in that series, and nothing seemed to go Kal's way. It is very important to understand that Kal has improved vastly since that time, and he is more capable of keeping his corsairs alive in the face of relentless scourge play (as was a huge problem on their second game on Byzantium 3).
The last time that Kal beat Jaedong was on the last day of 2008 on Colosseum II. It was a straight-up game, in which Jaedong made few mistakes and Kal beat him by force of skill. I expect epic games of this quality, which you ought to see if there are any doubts in your mind about Kal's PvZ, to be the order of the day in their upcoming series.
The Maps
We have a very nice selection of maps for this series, with Match Point as the repeated map. This feature of the map pool alone indicates the potential for this series, as anyone following Proleague knows it produces some excellent PvZ games. The other maps, including the largely untested MSL maps, should produce some quality sets, and will encourage players to show off different facets of their game. One important thing to note about this map pool is that both players are undefeated on each map.
1st set – Match Point 2nd set – Fighting Spirit 3rd set – Ultimatum 4th set – Odd-Eye 5th set – Match Point
Match Point ZvP record: 14-17 (45.2%)
Match point has been very exciting for ZvP. The map architecture is such that expansions are aligned vertically for each player, creating short air distances between each player's camp. Protoss has the opportunity to harass easily, and corsair/reaver has proven an effective choice in the past. Kal's harass based play is a strong point in his game, and I expect to see it shine on Match Point.
The close air distances that appear once the map has been divided down the middle also create opportunities for Zerg, and a Protoss who cannot control the low ground area on their side is very exposed to drops directly into the main and natural. I would not be surprised to see a doom drop from Jaedong if he can get an advantage or secure map control by the late midgame.
The air distance, and Protoss propensity for corsair/harass builds on this map means that the Zerg will often seek decisive air dominance. Mutalisks are a common choice, and for Jaedong, with the greatest mutalisk control of all time, it would be surprising not to see them in spades. If Kal goes for a corsair/reaver build, I expect Jaedong to aggressively try to eradicate the corsairs and deny the Protoss air power.
Fighting Spirit ZvP record:15-13 (53.6%)
There have been many ZvP games on Fighting Spirit recently, and we have seen a wide selection of strategies employed. A great deal depends on the Zerg's choice of third base on this map. If he chooses to take a base at another natural, zealot strike teams and timing attacks can be quite strong. If instead, the Zerg takes a cardinal direction high ground base, he is better defended, but cannot secure the fourth gas as easily.
From the Zerg perspective, mutalisks are an attractive choice. The natural is easy to harass, and they can secure map control, allowing the Zerg to take a frightening amount of gas expansions along one side of the map. If Kal allows Jaedong to secure air control, I feel that he will have an extremely hard game and will likely be outmassed and overrun.
In general, I expect to see standard, safe play out of both players in this set.
Ultimatum ZvP record: 1-2 (33.3%)
Ultimatum has some difficulties for Zerg. The most likely third base is another natural, quite far from their starting natural. This allows Protoss to exert pressure on the isolated expansion more easily. In the round of 16 against Saint, Kal used a dragoon/corsair build that pressured the third very effectively, and followed up with an impressive number of overlord kills. Because of this, I expect to see some pressure build, probably with a large number of corsairs from Kal.
We have seen the Zerg take the close-by mineral natural instead of another bases natural as a third, as in the case of July's game vs Stats in the final game of the round of 32 group D. Even if Jaedong opts for this choice, the distance to the fourth creates opportunities for the Protoss to strike one base to open up another for attack. Kal's multitasking is quite good, and he can execute these multi-pronged attacks flawlessly.
Because of some inherent difficulties in the map, I would not be surprised by some cheese from Jaedong. He can execute cheesy builds with frightening grace, and this possibility is not to be overlooked. If he opts for more standard play, I would look for a mutalisk-heavy strategy. This is because, if a Protoss is allowed uncontested air superiority, harass is a powerful option, and the island expansions can be easily secured.
Odd-Eye ZvP record: 1-2 (33.3%)
The few PvZ games on Odd-Eye have been somewhat standard. The close-by third base is a boon for Zerg defending early, but puts the pressure on them to delay or prevent the Protoss from acquiring it too early.
In his round of 32 group, Kal played Type-b on this map, and used a fast +1 attack and zealot leg speed for a quickly timed attack and followed with dark templar. Jaedong is of a much higher caliber than Kal's opponent at the time though, and I do not expect a similar strategy at all.
While this map's architecture has not been particularly telling in this matchup, I would expect standard metagame play from both players. This prediction ignores some factors of the best of five format though. If either player has secured a 2-1 lead, I would not be surprised to see cheese from them in this set.
Conclusion
Because you have heard my opinions for quite some time now, I figured that I would conclude with an interview from both a Jaedong and a Kal fan. Both of these fellows are quite active here, and they are probably familiar names. A big thank you to both of these guys for helping me out and sharing their opinions on the match.
Interview with Avidkeystamper
What do you think about PvZ these days?
I'm no expert but PvZ has gotten better nowadays. Maybe because of the maps, maybe because of the choice of DAs, maybe because of new Protoss faces. It's now on par balance wise with the other two MUs, and the PL stats reflect this. PvZ is so complex that I feel a game is already decided most of the battle before the climactic clash. The variety is also astonishing; both sides can choose from many utterly distinct strategies.
What result do you expect?
I think Jaedong has a great chance to sweep, a decent chance of dropping the first set, and little chance of losing. Kal used to be known as a joker, so I expect a cheese or unorthodox play in one game. He will most likely try and tackle Jaedong head-on but still 2 stargate in one game. After going so heavy with lurkers in his series against Stats, I predict that Jaedong will go hydra heavy to keep his game fresh. Maps are slightly slanted toward Protoss, but nothing that would really affect this series unless Kal pulls out a wicked map-specific cheese.
Why should readers cheer for your favorite?
I was captured by professional Starcraft after stumbling onto Jaedong's game against Sea @ Demon's Forest. Seeing that VOD, I deeply felt Jaedong's fury and relentless power that enthralled me. When Jaedong wins, it's a tsunami crashing on the beach, and people should cheer for him because you know there will be blood and excitement. Also, who wants a Flash/Kal finals over a Flash/Jaedong finals?
Interview with 538
What do you think of PvZ these days?
I think PvZ definitely seems less scary from a Protoss point of view than it did in the last few months, mainly due to some steady and decent performances from bigger names like Bisu, Stork and Kal himself, and some impressive/promising results from a handful of up-and-coming players like Movie, Violet and Flying. Whether it's a slow metagame shift, some natural fluctuation, the effect of the current maps, or just the general decline in Zerg performance, I believe this is not the appropriate thread (yet ) for such discussions. We should just rejoice as neutral StarCraft fans that this beautiful matchup has not continued to tilt, and we have seen arbiters and dark archons along the way back.
What result do you expect?
I think while most would pick Jaedong to advance, Kal will show that he is no pushover. It was interesting to see the psychological war already unfolding with their recent clash in PL on Outsider (where Kal has been showing off some sexy one-base play lately), but this time Jaedong just 3-hatch hydra busted his FE in a rather lackluster fashion, clearly giving him the mental edge going into this series, and reminding Kal of their lifetime stats (9-3 in favor of the tyrant now). Still, I think JD has to be very careful not to enter the arena this Saturday too overconfidently, his interview upon passing the Ro8 certainly seemed to show worrisome signs of that.
I expect Kal to try to capitalize on his multitasking and restless harass on the games on Match Point - should they get into the lategame. He will probably try a han-bang reaver attack on Fighting Spirit as zerg simcities and contains are very strong there (let us not forget his dragoon-based timing attack either that he showed off on Ultimatum to counter Zerg's over-reliance on simcity), or he may try to cut the game short on Odd-Eye too depending on the standing of the series before game 4. It's also interesting to note that both Match Point and Ultimatum look rather decent for sair-reaver openings.
As for Jaedong, I expect him to rely a lot on a beastly mutalisk play, especially on Odd-Eye and Match Point (those 3 wins are enough to take the entire series), or to play cocky and standard, always forcing a macro game, where I think he can be seriously surprised by Kal's abilities and preparation.
Realistically I have to predict Jaedong to advance 3-2 (or even 3-1), but as a fan of Kal and of entertaining StarCraft, I'm hoping for a 3-2 Kal victory in a very memorable and entertaining series.
Why should readers cheer for your favorite?
I think I've done my fair share of elaborating on that in my article about Kal around two months ago. Hopefully this additional semifinal appearance will gain him some more respect and fans around the forums. For now let's just all cheer for an amazing series. Kim Ku Hyun fighting!
I look forward to hearing what everyone else in the community has to say about this series, and I am excited to finally see it.
Thanks to NeverGG for photos and 538 for his suggestions and support. Statistics courtesy of TLPD.
Yep, this should be the most exciting semifinals to watch for this OSL/MSL season. I hope to see some really good games instead of Jaedong 3 hatch hydra-breaking Kal to death
On January 14 2010 13:49 Slow Motion wrote: Kal is gonna need amazing early game scouting to survive.
Kal's early game scouting is one of the things that impresses me about his play. His probe control is really amazing. A recent game I will cite as an example is this one:
This is the second to last time Jaedong and Kal met. It is a game where Kal plays well, but makes a few mistakes. His micro has some minor faults, his zealots are repelled by some wonderful zergling control by Jaedong, and if I recall correctly, he invested in corsairs that he made little use out of. His probe at the start is worth watching though.
I fucking LOVE Kal but there's just no way he's going to beat JD.
JD currently has the highest vs P ELO EVER. he fucking crushed Kal so many times in the last year. I would consider it a victory for Kal if he wins just 1 game
Kal has certainly come a long way from 7 months ago when he (and every other non-Bisu protoss) couldnt beat a good zerg if his life depended on it, and he's slowly getting better and better at the MU again with lots of exciting innovations, but JD is just a goddamned monster and he will easily steamroll ANY protoss in the world no problem.
if Kal beats JD it will be almost as big of an upset as if movie somehow beats flash in the osl.
I still have faith in JD. His ZvT wasn't really up to par when he faced flash (and sea for that matter). But I think it's unfair of us to really gauge where he's at based on those few games. In the first game it seemed as though he had not watched a single game of flash's in a long time.... He was unprepared for flash's trademark (For the past 15 games or so) aggression with his m&m's to deny the zerg's third. I'm probably missing some sort of metagame here but even I knew that flash especially against 3 hatch mutas would push out around the 5:30 mark with his m&ms, even before stim had finished. In the second game, flash prepared a brilliant, brilliant cheese against JD and he was kind of helpless. It was like Skyhigh's cheese against JD. And in JD's game against sea, he was clearly shaken up from that cheese so he went with some pool first, early ling build that did no damage at all and put him way behind.
Zero seemed more prepared. Calm was definitely more prepared. It seems as though calm would have taken it to game 5 had he not blew his lead in game 3. I still don't understand why calm got steamrolled so hard in game 4 however...I think his macro was off (He had like 1000 gas saved up when flash was pushing towards his nat) and he opted to go for defilers first instead of earlier guardians to defend the nat. Flash capitalized.
On January 14 2010 14:06 Warrior Madness wrote: Calm was definitely more prepared. It seems as though calm would have taken it to game 5 had he not blew his lead in game 3. I still don't understand why calm got steamrolled so hard in game 4 however...I think his macro was off (He had like 1000 gas saved up when flash was pushing towards his nat) and he opted to go for defilers first instead of earlier guardians to defend the nat. Flash capitalized.
I think it was pretty clear whoever won game 3 would win game 4. it was a complete battle for mental dominance (clearly shown by the reactions of the players at the end of the set). I am 100% sure calm would of won game 4 if he had won game 3.
On January 14 2010 14:06 Warrior Madness wrote: I still have faith in JD. His ZvT wasn't really up to par when he faced flash (and sea for that matter). But I think it's unfair of us to really gauge where he's at based on those few games. In the first game it seemed as though he had not watched a single game of flash's in a long time.... He was unprepared for flash's trademark (For the past 15 games or so) aggression with his m&m's to deny the zerg's third. I'm probably missing some sort of metagame here but even I knew that flash especially against 3 hatch mutas would push out around the 5:30 mark with his m&ms, even before stim had finished. In the second game, flash prepared a brilliant, brilliant cheese against JD and he was kind of helpless. It was like Skyhigh's cheese against JD. And in JD's game against sea, he was clearly shaken up from that cheese so he went with some pool first, early ling build that did no damage at all and put him way behind.
Zero seemed more prepared. Calm was definitely more prepared. It seems as though calm would have taken it to game 5 had he not blew his lead in game 3. I still don't understand why calm got steamrolled so hard in game 4 however...I think his macro was off (He had like 1000 gas saved up when flash was pushing towards his nat) and he opted to go for defilers first instead of earlier guardians to defend the nat. Flash capitalized.
Calm took a huge gamble when he made those extra hatches as it was very high high risk/high reward.
"Also, who wants a Flash/Kal finals over a Flash/Jaedong finals?"
um....ME!!!
I'm a JD fan, but he's already accomplished enough in his career. I'd rather see Kal make it to the finals. Honestly, I think Flash could beat JD just as easily as Kal right now. Not even JD can surprise Flash in TvZ, but maybe Kal can (in a TvP) ? Movie will probably try to get cute against Flash, but I think Kal vs Flash would be a better TvP.
I'm not surprised to see that the general prediction seems to be a JD rape, and sadly I have to agree it is certainly a frightening possibility. Let's not forget though that this is not 5 ocnsecutive PL appearances, this is a Bo5 series. If Kal brings his A game, anything can happen. Yes, even if Jaedong brings his at the same time.
On January 14 2010 17:40 538 wrote: Yay it's finally out! Great writeup thopol!
I'm not surprised to see that the general prediction seems to be a JD rape, and sadly I have to agree it is certainly a frightening possibility. Let's not forget though that this is not 5 ocnsecutive PL appearances, this is a Bo5 series. If Kal brings his A game, anything can happen. Yes, even if Jaedong brings his at the same time.
Yes, BECAUSE this is a Bo5 series people predict Jaedong rape. If if were 5 consecutive PL games Kal would have a chance. We are talking about the strongest Bo5 player -ever-.
If JD were to play kal 100 games in a vaccum I would say kal always wins over 35-40 ..... so I imagine the finals will be 3/2 for jaedong but Kal is so bloody strong I'm not sure.
For you Kals doubters remember julyzerg the best BEST OF ZVP player ever rates Kal as the hardest toss to beat in mindgames.
All of you watch July vs kal from gomtv.net ....... garden of god was the pimpest game iirc.
On January 15 2010 02:42 torm3ntin wrote: the point is that if Flash doesn't play an S class player like Jaedong ppl will allways tell he had an easy opponent at the finals.
But if he does make it against JD no one will ever say something like that
Kal's chances vs Flash are pretty similar to Jaedong's, honestly.
I mean, Flash is better at TvZ than TvP, but Jaedong's ZvT is probably stronger than Kal's PvT, in general, so pretty even. Add the fact that maps are pretty good for TvZ and Kal's got the unorthodox goods that end up beating Flash in TvP and I honestly might say that Kal is a bigger challenge.
The only reason it isn't though is because it's a Bo5 and, well, Jaedong in Bo5 IS Jaedong in a Bo5, noone else like him.
Pretty absurd to say that the MSL match is in any way diminished because JD lost in a bo3 to Flash in the OSL.
Considering what is on the line, how little pratice Flash will get working on the OSL, and how much better JD is in bo5s over bo3s, to not think that this final wouldn't be significantly larger than the OSL quarters meeting is foolish. On top of that, when Flash wins the OSL, it will add another wrinkle to the MSL since he will be playing to be the first player to win both SLs within a week of eachother.
I can appreciate the hype trying to build up this match, but honestly I don't see Kal as having a chance. Considering Jaedongs ZvP looks as strong as Flash's TvT or TvZ, and how great he is in bo5s, it shouldn't be close.
Funny side note, as you mentioned JDs 11 ZvP winning streak started with Kal. Also, his last ZvP win was against Kal with a hydra-break beat down over him a few days ago in PL. That psychological blow can't help Kal. Losing 5 straight games to someone, with no sign of closing the gap, is not indicative of a close MU.
On January 14 2010 22:27 StuDToSs wrote: you got kal's PvZ record mixed up with his PvP OP
Ah yeah, thanks.
On January 15 2010 04:06 On_Slaught wrote: Funny side note, as you mentioned JDs 11 ZvP winning streak started with Kal. Also, his last ZvP win was against Kal with a hydra-break beat down over him a few days ago in PL.
Yeah, I mention that.
I really think that our overall desire for a Jaedong Flash final is getting in the way of some of our thinking about this. People are saying Match Point will be Kal's only win, but Ultimatum is not to be overlooked.
Now I certainly think that Jaedong is the favorite to win here. I am careful with my language in the OP to not make conclusions about who will win which game, just how they might go. I tried to take things from a very balanced standpoint. Because so many people think that this will be a total roll, a neutral standpoint seems very Kal biased. I don't deny that I am hoping Kal plays very well and takes it to the 5th game, but I don't think of this as a Kal hype article as much as a hype article for the match.
I like most of you am praying for a jaedong win but alot of you are doubting kal WAY too much.
Go watch the jaedong vs kal series before. Kal had the series easily won on loki2 and suicided his army away and let jaedong ninja expo back into the game. The guy is a fucking BEAST in PvZ matchplay .....
IMO if kal loses it isn't nearly as big of an upset as you guys think.
Hmm, I'm kind of torn. I like Kal a lot and I think it would be cool if he could show that Jaedong's vP is mortal, but at the same time I really want a Flash vs JD finals.
I think I'll just hope that Jaedong advances 3-2 with Kal making a very impressive showing out of it. If I had to bet on one score though, it'd be Jaedong 3-0...
On January 15 2010 05:28 Kenpachi wrote: even if Match Point favors P in PvZ, Jaedong is known to destroy on any map he wishes to destroy on... cept HBR
JD is 6–3 on HBR (with last loss on Aug 29 by Stork): WLLWWWLWW
Excellent write up. I am extremely excited or this series and think Kal will be putting up quite a fight. In any sports, when a team is looking forward to the following match, they always seem to underperform in the current one.
For example, when a college football team has their big rivalry match in 2 weeks, but this week is against a lesser team they should beat, their preparation and focus falters and they end up losing to the weaker team while thinking about the next match. This happens with EXTREME frequency is professional sports (even more so College because of the age, momentum and morale are more impacting to them then pros).
I have faith Jaedong will be extremely focused on Kal, but if he thinks about Flash more than just a little he is putting himself at a disadvantage.
As much as I love Kal as underdog I think JD will sweep the floor with him and thats just becouse imho a) JD is a beast b) I don't think PvZ is balanced enought as of yet
Only thing that might go in Kal's favour is the map pool which is quite good for P. Can't wait for this clash!
On January 15 2010 09:15 Magic84 wrote: Can't wait until the glorious bo5 lee-ssang in the official Starleague final!
I personally can't wait to see flash win the OSL and see who win this match.
If flash is able to win both leagues versus protoss, he will put even his staunchest doubters to rest.
Also even though a jaedong vs flash finals sounds amazing I can't see jaedong beating flash in a bo5 on these maps and with the very reduced midgames that two hat muta creates the games are fairly cut and dry which flash excells in, imo.
Kal's pretty good PvZ but he's so inconsistent lately...well he's so inconistent forever. Should be really good series if Kal doesn't screw up and lose for silly reasons.
On January 15 2010 01:51 ccou wrote: I want to see Kal win at least the first game because the transformation into Smugface Smugfington is always funny.
I lold at Smugface Smugfington. He does sort of look smug though > .>
On January 15 2010 09:28 Piy wrote: Kal's pretty good PvZ but he's so inconsistent lately...well he's so inconistent forever. Should be really good series if Kal doesn't screw up and lose for silly reasons.
He's as consistent as he's ever been. Of his 4 vZ losses since the start of december last year, only two games I saw were hydra busts. No idea about the other two, but unless he gets cheesed to hell, I'm sure he can put up an amazing fight.
this is gonna be a great series, as terrifying as jaedong is, Kal is certainly on the same level against Zerg
it'll be interested to see what they've prepared... the thought that goes into preparing for this matchup will be the deciding factor given the similar skill levels in these two's respective matchups
On January 15 2010 11:16 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote: this is gonna be a great series, as terrifying as jaedong is, Kal is certainly on the same level against Zerg
I do agree that Kal has its chances, but you're saying hes on the same level in PvZ as Jaedong is in ZvP?
On January 15 2010 11:35 Piste wrote: GO KAL! actually no.. go jaedong! (just so he can be 3-0'd by flash)
OK, that's a little too far. I don't mind people saying that they hope Jaedong wins 3-0 to get to play Flash. I think it's stupid (because who would prefer 3-0 to 3-2?), but I understand it. People really really like Jaedong, and people really really want a Jaedong Flash final. What I cannot fathom is how anyone would want a Jaedong Flash final to end up in a 3-0 result either way. It's beyond the scope of my understanding so I would like you to back up that statement with something, anything, that will help me figure out how you would rationalize it.
On January 15 2010 11:16 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote: this is gonna be a great series, as terrifying as jaedong is, Kal is certainly on the same level against Zerg
I do agree that Kal has its chances, but you're saying hes on the same level in PvZ as Jaedong is in ZvP?
I totally disagree.
he really is, in terms of knowledge of the matchup, innovation in the matchup, and execution. seems lately his execution is on point, but we shall see what happens
i should preface this by saying i don't think any other protoss players are at jaedong's level as far as the first two are concerned, and really only sometimes stork and sometimes bisu have execution on par
people are really underestimating Kal, hopefully this series will be much closer than people expect
Kal hasn't played enough games against S-class players recently to be convincingly elevated to the same level as JD, whereas JD's ZvP shows no sign of weakness. Other than maybe Bisu (who we all remember lost embarrassingly to Shine, who although deserves more respect now, is still not nearly S-class) and maybe Movie in a few months (not quite there yet in terms of consistency), I personally don't think anyone can beat JD in a PvZ Bo5. Maybe Flash offracing as P lol... j/k.
edit: Epic hype thread by the way. Was good read :D.
On January 15 2010 11:16 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote: this is gonna be a great series, as terrifying as jaedong is, Kal is certainly on the same level against Zerg
I do agree that Kal has its chances, but you're saying hes on the same level in PvZ as Jaedong is in ZvP?
I totally disagree.
he really is, in terms of knowledge of the matchup, innovation in the matchup, and execution. seems lately his execution is on point, but we shall see what happens
i should preface this by saying i don't think any other protoss players are at jaedong's level as far as the first two are concerned, and really only sometimes stork and sometimes bisu have execution on par
people are really underestimating Kal, hopefully this series will be much closer than people expect
I really don't believe all these people underestimating Kal. He seems to be the Light/Hwasin of protoss -- deserving and invisible. Except to his fans of course
Kal is such a great player, and just doesn't have a boatload of fans like Bisu because he hasn't won a league yet. Despite being labeled an extremely inconsistent player, Kal is solid. He has been solid for such a long time and has been posting results because of it. His PvZ stats are misleading too, despite being a near 60%. Kal never seems to get a break in the matchup, and is consistently matched against some of the best ZvPers around. Most of his wins/losses are from people like Jaedong, July, Hogil(yes he is actually good at SOMETHING, which is ZvP), Kwanro, hero, zero. With such a ridiculously tough matchlist, you can't just look at the stats. Kal is a force to be reckoned with. When S-class Kal steps into the booth, even Jaedong should take heed.
The only reason I would be sad if Kal wins this league is that I won't be one of his only fans anymore.
On January 15 2010 11:35 Piste wrote: GO KAL! actually no.. go jaedong! (just so he can be 3-0'd by flash)
OK, that's a little too far. I don't mind people saying that they hope Jaedong wins 3-0 to get to play Flash. I think it's stupid (because who would prefer 3-0 to 3-2?), but I understand it. People really really like Jaedong, and people really really want a Jaedong Flash final. What I cannot fathom is how anyone would want a Jaedong Flash final to end up in a 3-0 result either way. It's beyond the scope of my understanding so I would like you to back up that statement with something, anything, that will help me figure out how you would rationalize it.
I personally want an epic 3-2, but 3-0 can be amazing series (see bisu savior, july best). Both of those series was better than 3-2 JD and bisu in gom.
Plus with a 3-0 there is bound to be a TL shitstorm and a whole lot of sweet fanboy tears.
Kal has one huge factor in his favor and that is he knocked out Hwasin!
Really though Kal is a strong ass PvZer but his aggressive style is going to get torn to shreds by JD multitask. I really think the only protoss that can keep pace with JD is Bisu on a good day(not now). The best chance Kal has is to find some sick builds to use and surprise Jaedong for 3 wins. Using the same weird build more then once doesn't work on this guy so he needs to find 2 or 3 odd builds and hope to take a single game in standard play.
On January 15 2010 11:16 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote: this is gonna be a great series, as terrifying as jaedong is, Kal is certainly on the same level against Zerg
I do agree that Kal has its chances, but you're saying hes on the same level in PvZ as Jaedong is in ZvP?
I totally disagree.
he really is, in terms of knowledge of the matchup, innovation in the matchup, and execution. seems lately his execution is on point, but we shall see what happens
i should preface this by saying i don't think any other protoss players are at jaedong's level as far as the first two are concerned, and really only sometimes stork and sometimes bisu have execution on par
people are really underestimating Kal, hopefully this series will be much closer than people expect
I really don't believe all these people underestimating Kal. He seems to be the Light/Hwasin of protoss -- deserving and invisible. Except to his fans of course
It sounds like you're underestimating Kal and overestimating Light/Hwasin >.>
On January 15 2010 11:16 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote: this is gonna be a great series, as terrifying as jaedong is, Kal is certainly on the same level against Zerg
I do agree that Kal has its chances, but you're saying hes on the same level in PvZ as Jaedong is in ZvP?
I totally disagree.
he really is, in terms of knowledge of the matchup, innovation in the matchup, and execution. seems lately his execution is on point, but we shall see what happens
i should preface this by saying i don't think any other protoss players are at jaedong's level as far as the first two are concerned, and really only sometimes stork and sometimes bisu have execution on par
people are really underestimating Kal, hopefully this series will be much closer than people expect
I really don't believe all these people underestimating Kal. He seems to be the Light/Hwasin of protoss -- deserving and invisible. Except to his fans of course
It sounds like you're underestimating Kal and overestimating Light/Hwasin >.>
I didn't mean the Hwasin of today. I meant the Hwasin that faced down some of the greatest players around the time of savior/bisu and nearly won starleagues.
Light is the invisible backbone of MBC, when everyone instead looks to Sea.
If you had really read my post, you would know I'm not underestimating Kal. He is one of my favorite players, and I really think he has a great chance, greater than any other protoss of today, to take down Jaedong and Flash in succession.
I love Kal but he's going to need a lot of something new to have a chance in this series. I think their game on tornado really tells the whole story; Kal's play was good, maybe not inspired but certainly solid and he just got picked apart. That game wasn't even close, Jd was in complete control all game long, no gimmicks, no surprises just immaculate domination. I'd like to see a new and improved Kal take it to game 5 but I really can't imagine him winning straight up 3-0 JD
Just wondering but did anyone notice that in Jaedong's profile his name is Lee Je Dong even though awhile it was Lee Jae Dong (like its suppose to be?). Did something happen or is my eyes just playing tricks on me...?
On January 15 2010 13:24 Shinshady wrote: Just wondering but did anyone notice that in Jaedong's profile his name is Lee Je Dong even though awhile it was Lee Jae Dong (like its suppose to be?). Did something happen or is my eyes just playing tricks on me...?
There are not correct spellings for Korean names because there are varying conventions by which they are romanized. Li Je Dong would probably be acceptable as well, for example.
EDIT: I don't mean there aren't correct spellings exactly, I mean that there are several correct spellings.
also, @ n.die.jokes: That game you speak of was really perfect play from Jaedong and there are clear, identifiable mistakes from Kal. He doesn't need something special to take games off of JD, he just needs to play very high quality StarCraft.
Oh man, not going to be able to watch all of this, stupid friends house warming party....Maybe I can use his computer to watch while I'm there. Wish I could watch it on my N97. I want Kal to go through, but I'll be rooting for JD most likely.
i love the assumption that JD vs flash will be onesided.. i'm really looking forward to it, cause JD always seems to come from nowhere (which is odd considering he's been right at the top for so long) eg... osl vs fantasy, 0-2 to 3-2.. and again against fantasy, losing twice in PL finals, comes back and mauls the guy in a series...
maybe that's just fantasy, but i can see the same thing happening to flash.. (i hope!)
Pfft. Everyone should know Kal will win, for the simple reason that God does not want a Flash vs. Jaedong finals. We all do, but seriously, do you not get that GOD is fucking with you? He'll not allow this to happen.
I really want to see Jaedong win (obviously since I'm and Oz fan). But I think a Flash v Jaedong finals would be pretty awesome. Flash v Kal wouldn't be too bad either though.
On January 16 2010 09:19 jalstar wrote: 5 months and 3 days ago an underdog from STX beat Jaedong in his best matchup in a best of 5 in an MSL semifinal.
On January 15 2010 11:35 Piste wrote: GO KAL! actually no.. go jaedong! (just so he can be 3-0'd by flash)
OK, that's a little too far. I don't mind people saying that they hope Jaedong wins 3-0 to get to play Flash. I think it's stupid (because who would prefer 3-0 to 3-2?), but I understand it. People really really like Jaedong, and people really really want a Jaedong Flash final. What I cannot fathom is how anyone would want a Jaedong Flash final to end up in a 3-0 result either way. It's beyond the scope of my understanding so I would like you to back up that statement with something, anything, that will help me figure out how you would rationalize it.
I don't like JD so I wan't Flash to 3-0 him. how can you not understand such a simple thing? Not everyone likes JD as you think. +I don't want the finals to take whole day -_-
EPT![[image loading]](/staff/alffla/NATEMSL_bannerSemisB.jpg)
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) for such discussions. We should just rejoice as neutral StarCraft fans that this beautiful matchup has not continued to tilt, and we have seen arbiters and dark archons along the way back.
