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Starcraft has become more and more frustrating, it has gotten to the point where I really need to write about it. I’m sure I’ll get tons of angry responses.
Starcraft is not as awesome as it used to be. I know people are going to whine I’m wearing thick nostalgia goggles, it’s only natural. Why is Starcraft in a decline? Because the game has become cold and mechanical, and the true idols with heart have faded out.
Flash is absolutely dominating at the moment and it’s really frustrating, both as a Starcraft enthusiast and as a fan of many players that are having a rough time atm.
I really dislike Flash, because he’s so uncharismatic. And he’s not fun to watch. What’s exciting about Starcraft is awesome, daring plays, back and forth action, all that juicy stuff. With Flash though we get nothing, and then "forth" action as he rolls out of his base and kills the other player off for being too greedy in getting bases. Flash also does a few other things like cheesing, well that’s all fine and dandy but it doesn’t really compensate. Flash is, at the end of the day, a macrobot with perfect mechanics, and he doesn’t have heart like the star players of old did. He’s the best but that doesn’t really matter when it’s not entertaining. I’m sure there are a whole fuckton of zealous fanboys here on TL who cream their pants when they watch him, but I think that to the majority of the audience, things like that don’t matter, what matters is entertaining games, stunning stratagems, matches that surprise you and keep you on the edge of your seat, etc. Instead, players like Flash dominate the players who’re actually entertaining. This is what the metagame has led up to, and that points us to a single conclusion: Starcraft rewards the least entertaining type of strategy the most of all.
SDM covered it quite well in his sole article on Gom: http://www.gomtv.net/mumbojumbo/column/1
We get these kids that are stunningly good, but the appeal is limited. And Starcraft as an e-sports is in decline. Entertaining plays take a back seat because of the corporate pressure on the teams to deliver results. Win win win. So many times, TL users fail to grasp these things because all they think is "But he’s winning, that’s all that matters." So typical.
I remember when Tasteless cast GOM and he and SDM were discussing Flash, the guy was as usual doing his defensive opener and you could just tell by the way they spoke that they were trying not to say he was boring. I think they ended up saying something along the lines of "he’s consistent".
It’s not all bad. But I think that Starcraft, at its core, is ephemeral, with a ticking clock that’s running out. It’s not as solid as a ‘real’ sport, because the game’s gotten (or is in the process of getting) figured out. There might be a few more "revolutions" to come but they’ll be minor. Maybe Dark Archons will become a staple of PvZ. Maybe Ghosts will gain a role in TvP. Maybe optical flare and restoration will find a place in certain builds. Or maybe Zerg will simply find new ways of raping even harder. The map rotation has done its part but it can only go so far in keeping it fresh.
Right now I have my hopes set for SC2. Blizzard promised that the game won’t rely on map design to stay balanced, at least not a first. If they can create a game that stays fresh for more than 10 years, I’ll be glad. The two expansion packs should help, bringing more units, map features, etc into the mix. Or maybe they screw up and we’ll get CS: Source all over again.
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I will just respond to your first statement '' The game has become cold an mechanical and the true idols have faded out ''
As a matter of fact the game is very old now and it evolved incredibly much. It's just impossible to play a style that boxer or even older gamers used to. It may be nice to watch but the competition got so fierce that you cant play '' what meets the eye '' anymore. Back then when a gamer like Boxer had a huge edge over everyone else he could do fancy stuff nowadays the top pro gamers are so close together there is simply no room for any fancy builds over those who most likely bring you the win.
The thing is: There are always changes in the way the game is played but as the game gets understood better and better over the many years these changes are very very slight and appear very very seldom..
It's just that this game is understood as perfect as one can understand it. I'd say its like soccer or chess. The main things wont change anymore. You gotta see it like that:
In soccer or chess its basicaly the same, too: 11 men in a certain order on the pitch. There are not any new or great inovations, either.. Same with chess..
Yes.. Starcraft Broodwar is ( unfortunately !? ) evolved that much..
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Yeah I don't see how the current Starcraft is any worse than the physical sports we have today.
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I can't help but notice your signature: "Savior and Jaedong, how come zerg progamers are so awesome?". Why do you like Jaedong while at the same time dismiss Flash as cold, mechanical and uncharismatic. I like both players, however your criticism could apply to them both equally.
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I wouldn't be posting this kind of topic in this kind of forum >_> SC nerds will be angry
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United States43337 Posts
There is still innovation if you know where to look. Just because people have optimised the basics doesn't change the wealth of strategic decisions under the surface. It's very easy for a bad player to look at a game and think "well, he's making the same general units as in every other PvT therefore it's all the same" but the more you understand the game, the more you can appreciate its depth. I recommend you watch some Day9 daily, he's excellent at making the complexity of the game accessable.
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You're right Flash plays like any other terran (other terrans don't quite understand the matchups like he does though) but that's like every progamer in this day and age - they play to win games. Savior would be a good example seeing he's in your sig and no, having "the CJ face" doesn't somehow make him any different from any other progamer. They all do what they are used to so I don't know why you're simply targeting Flash for being like a robot while saying Jaedong and Savior are so awesome.
People attack you because you give the most pathetic reasons for hating Flash. He's really no different than the majority of progamers and let's face it, the old days of Zeus, Chalrenge and FBH are pretty much over. FBH isn't even really dancing anymore or acting like an asshole.
On December 31 2009 23:09 J1.au wrote:
I can't help but notice your signature: "Savior and Jaedong, how come zerg progamers are so awesome?". Why do you like Jaedong while at the same time dismiss Flash as cold, mechanical and uncharismatic. I like both players, however your criticism could apply to them both equally.
Basically this.
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I think people have 'figured out' football & basketball, but those sports continue to entertain and, to some extent, evolve. I am not sure if the 'mechanical', software interface of SCi ultimately limits play that much more than, say, the two sports listed above. Evolution is linked to environment, so if the environment is right, I think it is possible that players with more interesting, exciting styles will emerge .
SCi may not be the future of esports, but esports are going to happen, and SCi will always be remembered as one of the games that birthed a new era of sports.
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I don't think you will find a lot of people agreeing with you. It seems that you don't hate starcraft but you hate Flash. There is a huge difference and if you check the recent games, there have been entertaining ones for sure. For instance, check out the Cheese thread by Pholon. Heck, why do you think every PL thread has a "recommended" games section?
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this game has always been and will always be really awesome
u dont like this game anymore because its boring to look at then i say u dont really understand the game
play with a heart?
the reason ppl playing "cool" and doesnt play "cool" anymore according to ur bs is because ppl like flash has figured out this game so far much better than those old school players with hearts (lol)
these progamers are just so fucking good at this game that their strats and adaptments causes both players to make almost 0 mistakes causing little blood
but if u like cool playstyle with nice effects and deaths with ppl who doesnt understand the game then change to another game like age of empires or something
flash is by far the most entertaining player for me to watch because his play is so brilliant in so many ways
u should start following the foreign scene instead because there u have tons of interesting games with back and forth action with ppl that has no clue about how the game really works
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So much hypocrisy in the OP...
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Because the game has become cold and mechanical, and the true idols with heart have faded out.
The game may have become more mechanical than it previously was, but I find in no way that its become cold and that all the true idols have faded. Sure I was a fan of the oldies, but saying
What’s exciting about Starcraft is awesome, daring plays, back and forth action, all that juicy stuff. With Flash though we get nothing, and then "forth" action as he rolls out of his base and kills the other player off for being too greedy in getting bases. Flash also does a few other things like cheesing, well that’s all fine and dandy but it doesn’t really compensate.
just isn't a good argument. Flash lost a TvZ quite recently and it was a really exciting game because Flash was good enough that despite a huge blunder he almost managed a successful comeback. However with most matches the players are so EQUAL in skill that any mistake is punished. The old games seemed so creative because one player was sooo much better than the other that he could do whatever he wanted and still pull off a win, its like saying Starcraft is boring because A rankers play vs A rankers rather than watching a B+ player do retarded shit and beat some D player.
It’s not as solid as a ‘real’ sport, because the game’s gotten (or is in the process of getting) figured out.
This is where I completely lose you, that's exactly what makes it as solid as a real sport.
Soccer, Baseball or any other Sport has been completely mapped out strategically and it really only relies on players varying mechanics to provide different games.
Even Chess is still popular despite computers being better than humans now.
Overall I think you're really wearing the nostalgia goggles like you said,and aren't seeing the new entertainment value that superior mechanics provide rather than bad strategies combined with a total mechanical imbalance between opponents to provide entertaining games.
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sorry have to disagree. flash manages his eco the best since oov
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this game is the worst 8]
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So you say you cared about the old idols, yet you chastize Flash for winning with safe, "mechanical" play?
Nada was nothing but pure mechanical play. Oov invented boring, safe standard, Savior did the same for zerg. Almost all the old guard were the old guard because they began the development of "mechanical," play that more modern gamers are better at.
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On December 31 2009 23:16 Schnake wrote:
I don't think you will find a lot of people agreeing with you. It seems that you don't hate starcraft but you hate Flash. There is a huge difference and if you check the recent games, there have been entertaining ones for sure. For instance, check out the Cheese thread by Pholon. Heck, why do you think every PL thread has a "recommended" games section?
Nuf said.
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Since when was Flash the first Starcraft player to go on a monster streak with a certain strategy?
Back in 2003 JoYo was rolling Protoss players left and right with his innovative new aggressive Terran play.
At his ZvZ peak, Jaedong was winning over 80% of the time.
Bisu went 3-0 against Savior--a Zerg at the time who was considered unstoppable--with the same build each time.
Each of these players revolutionized the game. The JoYo rush is still a strong alternative to FE play, thanks to Jaedong ZvZ is no longer rock-paper-scissors and has been removed of any room for error, and the Bisu build changed the ways in which sair/DT were used in SC. Now that Flash has found a way to wipe the floor with pretty much every Z player in the game, you're getting upset and calling SC a dead game?
Please.
Oh, about him lacking personality and variation? He stopped playing his ultra-defensive TvP once Protoss players started figuring him out, and now opts for more aggressive openings. If you're dissatisfied with modern Flash TvZ, try waiting it out; once Zergs figure out a way to exploit this it'll be over. I for one think it's pretty awesome that Flash one day said "You know what? Fuck them" and decided to stop letting Mutalisks contain him to his base, but you're entitled to your opinion as well.
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While Starcraft has evolved to the point where great macro is pretty much a requirement to play at the top level, I cannot help but feel that the difference between the S-class and A-class still lies in the micro aspect of the game. Sure, positioning also does matter, but if you don't play your units just right, you're in for a ride, because the other guy will do it.
Sure, things like Kingdom's comeback after his nexus got sniped, or Tempest's hero dragoon are very entertaining to watch, it's just that having huge 200/200 armies battle it out is as entertaining, just in a different way.
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I don't mean to offend you, but maybe you lack the depth to really appriciate what the players of today are actually doing.
I've been following the pro-scene ever since I first heard of this BoxeR dude who was apparently Terran and basically rolled over everyone in his way with his creative and cheesy play. I think I actually started as Terran in Broodwar just because of him. I enjoy watching Starcraft more today than I did in those days. Everything is so perfected, and the evolution in this game has gone so freaking far that it really takes a whole lot from a progamer these days, not only a creative mind, but just like flash, perfect mechanics and execution.
When I say you lack depth, I mean you may lack the in-depth game knowledge to really appriciate what you're seeing. Players who really don't understand the game completly usually likes cheesy and creative play because it seems so much more fasicnating and awesome when players pull that off, it's also a lot easier to understand what made the player win in a situation like that. I on the other hand, get fascinated by games like these:
http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/games/34843_Flash_vs_Jaedong
To one who just follow Starcraft as a hobby and doesn't really play it much might think of this game as a really boring and one-sided game. In my personal opinion, this is one of the most beautifully executed TvZs in modern BW. Everything has just gotten really tougher, there's little or no margin for mistakes anymore, which is why I actually like the evolution in Brood War. Today, the superior player wins, not because he pulls of something cheesy, but simply because hes so much better in every aspect of the game. Sure, there's still cheese going on, which is a good thing, but in the end, the most skilled player pulls through.
I'm as amazed when I watch Flash play as I was when I watched Boxer, they're two players with completly different styles yet I appriciate them equally much. So yeah, it might take a little more in-game knowledge to really find Starcraft fun to watch today, but that's generally the direction that everything has gone in. Phil made a reference to Chess and Soccer, just think about it, 50 years ago Soccer was nowhere near what it is now. The players are so much physically and techincally stronger, they'd humiliate any "good" team from 50 years ago if, theoritically speaking, they were to face eachother when they were both in their prime.
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Not every game 'back then' was amazing.
Not every game now is.
But there are still loads of great games in both eras. 
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EPT
