EPTReality (Ret/Progaming) - Page 6
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Slow Motion
United States6960 Posts
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Xiphos
Canada7507 Posts
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Ilikestarcraft
Korea (South)17726 Posts
On December 28 2009 08:21 Corvi wrote: out of curiosity: which language do koreans learn in school? it's obviously not english. watched some documentation about german immigrants in korea earlier (nothing bw related) and they were not able to find a korean in a crowded street in seoul who could describe them the way in english. speaking english does not seem to be a good talent toi have in korea, which is kinda surprising for a country whose economy hugely relies on export. maybe it's just the language barrier and not a lack of friendliness, that makes you think koreans are xenophobic. english is actually taught in schools and parents send their kids to expensive english private institutes after school or private tutors. Of course they arent fluent but a lot are better then you think. | ||
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igotmyown
United States4291 Posts
It sounds impractical to find two people willing to make the sacrifice rather than just one, but maybe if you could find 2 or 3 korean high school students to dedicate 5 hours a week each as community service. Or maybe future foreigner tournaments can dedicate some amount of funds to compensate a part time manager. Or if say estro gets to hire an additional coach, who's partially subsidized by foreigner funds and has part time duties as foreigner manager. In my opinion, ret's at a higher level than nony or idra when they went to korea, but it sounds as if he's had the most challenging situation. If someone can smooth things over and get him some damn training, he's sure to start placing high in courage. Estro isn't going to want to adapt to him, but someone else takes care of the adaptation, they lose nothing. | ||
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thopol
Japan4560 Posts
On December 28 2009 08:27 igotmyown wrote: It seems like if we really want foreigners to succeed in korea, there should be a special manager/translator/advocate who can put up a decent number of hours a week with the players. Isn't that what Artosis does? | ||
GTR
51398 Posts
On December 28 2009 08:22 Slow Motion wrote: Damn this made my respect for Idra shoot way up. I really want him to win TSL now. Somebody really needs to start a foreigner team in Korea though. Nigh impossible unless a large foreign corporation (like Intel with SK for WC3 back in 2004) would want to invest in it. Gotta pay the monies to form a team. The closest possible thing foreigners could do is one of them houses like the major guilds (Name etc) have. | ||
Hot_Bid
Braavos36374 Posts
On December 28 2009 08:12 StorkHwaiting wrote: You are really off. Labor is a simple process. You look at an occupation and ask "what is the benefit of working this job?" Then you ask yourself "what is the cost?" This is called the cost/benefit analysis. Becoming a progamer has HIGH costs, LOW benefit. Trying to conflate the issue into some sort of "enormous sacrifice" is retarded. If you need to make an enormous sacrifice, then there better be an enormous payoff! Like investment banking maybe? Or becoming a heart surgeon? Or becoming an attorney? You notice what the avg pay rate is for these jobs? Do you see why people are willing to make sacrifices for them? Do you see how they're not only economically rewarding but socially prestigious? Now look at progaming, which arguably takes greater dedication and intellectual ability than most of these jobs. What is the pay? What is the social recognition? How is your health? How adaptable is the work experience to another occupation? Yeah, exactly. 1. Follow your dreams, because only then you can truly be happy. Work toward your goals, sacrifice, and at least you can say you tried. Don't settle for less. 2. Be smart and pragmatic. Ambition is great, but you have to know yourself and what you are capable of. Work hard, set goals, but don't be delusional, not everyone can be a professional basketball player, movie director, or astronaut. Just about every super-successful person (sports player, company CEO, genius artist, movie star) follows #1. But the harsh reality is that these are exceptional people who achieve what they do through a combination of hard work, talent, and luck. However, just wanting a dream and working hard at it is often not enough to succeed. Not everyone can be exceptional but almost everyone at some point in their lives have exceptional dreams. Its very difficult to give up on these dreams because the precise reason why some people succeed is because they never give up on dreams. For instance, Asian parents in general are 100% #2. They are all about succeeding by finding very pragmatic, high probability fields. Get your education, go to medical or law school, get a high paying job. That's what StorkHwaiting describes. But its also a path that will never lead to someone achieving something extraordinary. Investment banking, attorney, etc -- these are high paying jobs but there is a quality of life cost that comes with it. Of course I'm not saying its comparable to working at a grocery store, but if you're smart enough to do these fields, you are often smart enough to make a living doing something you actually love to do (ask how many corporate people are really satisfied with their job lol). #2 is far more favorable in terms of odds and overall success for the "average" group of people. If you follow #1, you're likely going to be great (for the .001% that succeed) or fail very hard (99.999%). Progaming is #1, going to school and getting an office job is #2. The big problem is that people are very easily deluded into thinking they are among at .001%, when they are far from it. It really, really sucks to be someone in the top .01 percentile that is just hardworking or talented enough to almost make it but not. Sometimes it's much easier just to be average -- your choices are far more clear cut. Its a very difficult decision all young people have to make at some point in their lives. | ||
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SuperArc
Austria7781 Posts
On December 28 2009 08:26 Ilikestarcraft wrote: english is actually taught in schools and parents send their kids to expensive english private institutes after school or private tutors. Of course they arent fluent but a lot are better then you think. I've been to many Asian countries and I can say that apart from Singapore the average English skill sucks. And since pro gamers dont care much about school, their English skills must be close to nonexistant. | ||
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MorroW
Sweden3522 Posts
this subject is really interesting its not often i sit down and read 5 pages just like that, but now i did xd i was shocked when i first heard that ret was going to korea, i - just like everyone gave him my best of luck but i think almost all of us realized that he wont be in pro league, i think ret realized this too before going also anyhow he went for it and now he knows, its a life experience and now he wont wonder how well he would do in korea. i say good job for ret to be brave enough to go to korea and i say well played to him to go home. if we knew sc was going to live for a few more years and we would have time to learn some korean and improve in korea. then yes its a good idea to go to korea if you love the game and is ready to sacrifice a social life. but the fact is that sc2 coming even tho blizzard is delaying it shitmuch but it is coming. it sounds like ret enjoy the game, just like the other ppl who gone to korea, but dont enjoy it when playing too much every day. personally i feel wow today im gonna play all day and i do, i can sometimes ladder straight 12 hours (including small breaks of eat). but then the next day i can say "today i feel like watching forum and hang with clan mates"... u need really high stamina to play like the progamers. but i think its alittle stupid of the coaches not to allow ret to have 1 more hour of rest or what he now wanted, because playing too much is sometimes worse than playing a normal amount of time. they should been more adaptable to say "ok ret first week 5 hour per day, next week 6 hours etc". tbh as long as you cant reach A+ against the koreans on iccup (these r amateurs and some "progamers") i dont see how you could stand a chance to practice against the B team progamers. they want to practice with you if your are better or as good as them i dont believe that they r "racist" or anything, it sounds like ur just angry at korea because foreigners cant adapt to them and their conditions are unrealistic i also dont believe u should be able to speak korean to go to korea, if you have tons of skills before going there u wont need to talk much strategy, u will bash courage and jump up to A-team. improve at home and show skill in korea. just like u study alot before taking driver licence, u just want to do that test 1 time... but then what i just wrote sounds incredible hilarious cause its pretty much impossible, but yea it is but its best option u have i think | ||
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edahl
Norway483 Posts
On December 28 2009 08:21 Corvi wrote:maybe it's just the language barrier and not a lack of friendliness, that makes you think koreans are xenophobic. I know not much about Korean culture, but a brick wall language barrier would obviously be a huge part of it for just about anyone anywhere. | ||
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ShaLLoW[baY]
Canada12499 Posts
On December 28 2009 08:29 Hot_Bid wrote: 1. Follow your dreams, because only then you can truly be happy. Work toward your goals, sacrifice, and at least you can say you tried. Don't settle for less. 2. Be smart and pragmatic. Ambition is great, but you have to know yourself and what you are capable of. Work hard, set goals, but don't be delusional, not everyone can be a professional basketball player, movie director, or astronaut. Just about every super-successful person (sports player, company CEO, genius artist, movie star) follows #1. But the harsh reality is that these are exceptional people who achieve what they do through a combination of hard work, talent, and luck. However, just wanting a dream and working hard at it is often not enough to succeed. Not everyone can be exceptional but almost everyone at some point in their lives have exceptional dreams. Its very difficult to give up on these dreams because the precise reason why some people succeed is because they never give up on dreams. For instance, Asian parents in general are 100% #2. They are all about succeeding by finding very pragmatic, high probability fields. Get your education, go to medical or law school, get a high paying job. That's what StorkHwaiting describes. But its also a path that will never lead to someone achieving something extraordinary. Investment banking, attorney, etc -- these are high paying jobs but there is a quality of life cost that comes with it. Of course I'm not saying its comparable to working at a grocery store, but if you're smart enough to do these fields, you are often smart enough to make a living doing something you actually love to do (ask how many corporate people are really satisfied with their job lol). #2 is far more favorable in terms of odds and overall success for the "average" group of people. If you follow #1, you're likely going to be great (for the .001% that succeed) or fail very hard (99.999%). Progaming is #1, going to school and getting an office job is #2. The big problem is that people are very easily deluded into thinking they are among at .001%, when they are far from it. It really, really sucks to be someone in the top .01 percentile that is just hardworking or talented enough to almost make it but not. Sometimes it's much easier just to be average -- your choices are far more clear cut. Its a very difficult decision all young people have to make at some point in their lives. Veery nice post. | ||
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lew
Belgium205 Posts
I hope that this is a lesson for every foreigner who wants to go to Korea. And remember: Koreans are not more talented then foreigners. Starcraft is their life, and that's why they are better. | ||
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tonight
United States11130 Posts
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MorroW
Sweden3522 Posts
agree very much | ||
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Belano
Sweden657 Posts
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Hot_Bid
Braavos36374 Posts
On December 28 2009 08:42 Belano wrote: Also, is it just me or do pro-gamers seriously need some labour unions or something? It took major sports leagues in the United States (like NBA, NFL, MLB, etc) several decades to get labor unions. Esports are nowhere close to that yet. Saying "progamers need unions" is like saying "progamers need multimillion dollar salaries." Obviously a progamer union would be awesome for them, but its just not a reality. | ||
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Intr3pid
Switzerland336 Posts
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Deleted User 31060
3788 Posts
On December 28 2009 08:01 GTR wrote: Rekrul comes back, honestly stuff I pretty much knew but it's good to get an actual person who knows this shit to talk about this situation as well. Progaming is never going to change in Korea from what I see. It's going to follow the same method of K-Pop. Slave contracts, everyone stays in a house, no time to do leisure and extremely difficult to break into. rofl, gtr seriously just compared progaming with kpop. ... ... I think we need a moment for that to sink in. | ||
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yhnmk
Canada630 Posts
On December 28 2009 08:21 Corvi wrote: rek can speak korean...they are xenophobic. Dont make excuses...out of curiosity: which language do koreans learn in school? it's obviously not english. watched some documentation about german immigrants in korea earlier (nothing bw related) and they were not able to find a korean in a crowded street in seoul who could describe them the way in english. speaking english does not seem to be a good talent toi have in korea, which is kinda surprising for a country whose economy hugely relies on export. maybe it's just the language barrier and not a lack of friendliness, that makes you think koreans are xenophobic. | ||
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SuperJongMan
Jamaica11586 Posts
At least Rek will be there for you! Try to win TSL -_-;; GL on estro..... One day... one day you may not be a progaming newbie. Or will Elky truly be the last one...? | ||
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