• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 01:44
CET 07:44
KST 15:44
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book15Clem wins HomeStory Cup 289HomeStory Cup 28 - Info & Preview13Rongyi Cup S3 - Preview & Info8herO wins SC2 All-Star Invitational14
Community News
LiuLi Cup: 2025 Grand Finals (Feb 10-16)5Weekly Cups (Feb 2-8): Classic, Solar, MaxPax win2Nexon's StarCraft game could be FPS, led by UMS maker7PIG STY FESTIVAL 7.0! (19 Feb - 1 Mar)11Weekly Cups (Jan 26-Feb 1): herO, Clem, ByuN, Classic win2
StarCraft 2
General
Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book Weekly Cups (Jan 12-18): herO, MaxPax, Solar win How do you think the 5.0.15 balance patch (Oct 2025) for StarCraft II has affected the game? Rongyi Cup S3 - Preview & Info Nexon's StarCraft game could be FPS, led by UMS maker
Tourneys
LiuLi Cup: 2025 Grand Finals (Feb 10-16) Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament PIG STY FESTIVAL 7.0! (19 Feb - 1 Mar) RSL Season 4 announced for March-April WardiTV Mondays
Strategy
Custom Maps
Modalert 200 for Focus and Alertness Map Editor closed ? [A] Starcraft Sound Mod
External Content
Mutation # 512 Overclocked The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 511 Temple of Rebirth Mutation # 510 Safety Violation
Brood War
General
ACS replaced by "ASL Season Open" - Starts 21/02 Recent recommended BW games [ASL21] Potential Map Candidates BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BW General Discussion
Tourneys
Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 1 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues Small VOD Thread 2.0 KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 1
Strategy
Fighting Spirit mining rates Zealot bombing is no longer popular? Simple Questions, Simple Answers Current Meta
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Battle Aces/David Kim RTS Megathread Diablo 2 thread ZeroSpace Megathread EVE Corporation
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas Vanilla Mini Mafia TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Sex and weight loss Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Ask and answer stupid questions here! YouTube Thread
Fan Clubs
The herO Fan Club! The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Play, Watch, Drink: Esports …
TrAiDoS
My 2025 Magic: The Gathering…
DARKING
Life Update and thoughts.
FuDDx
How do archons sleep?
8882
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 2575 users

Reality (Ret/Progaming) - Page 5

Forum Index > BW General
617 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 29 30 31 Next All
ZhenMiChan
Profile Blog Joined November 2007
Netherlands1181 Posts
December 27 2009 22:54 GMT
#81
Rekrul. thanks.
Studying Chinese~
Boundz(DarKo)
Profile Joined March 2009
5311 Posts
December 27 2009 22:54 GMT
#82
Great post, this could not get any more expressed than it already has. Reality sucks, Ret doesn't.
Musli
Profile Blog Joined February 2004
Poland5130 Posts
December 27 2009 22:55 GMT
#83
That is one hell of an insightful post, sir! And that was what I needed from the beginning ^^
Du bist wirklich ein fantastischer Schreiber, Dan
Our greatest glory is not in never falling, but in rising every time we fall || mail/msn: muslii@gmail.com
StorkHwaiting
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States3465 Posts
December 27 2009 22:55 GMT
#84
Good post Rekrul. He speaks pure truth. Koreans are a xenophobic culture. Combine that with extremely rigid groupthink style social dynamics and you have one of the least foreigner friendly countries in the world. This is probably why very few foreigners ever go to Korea for a job other than for teaching English.

People who go to Korea to be a progamer are sort of like people who watch samurai animes then go to Japan to become a kendo master. It's a silly dream and 99% of the time not gonna happen. If it does happen it makes for a good movie script tho lol


LuckyFool
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
United States9015 Posts
December 27 2009 22:56 GMT
#85
I agree with all of this. I was very surprised when I first heard the news that Ret was going to korea because of pretty much everything rek said in this post. Great, great post.
frozenclaw
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
Canada410 Posts
December 27 2009 22:56 GMT
#86
This is a really important post. Thanks a lot Rekrul. Progaming has definitely lost a lot of its aura for me even though I knew conditions were shit already.
littlechava
Profile Blog Joined March 2004
United States7221 Posts
December 27 2009 22:58 GMT
#87
I bitched about estro in the ret courage topic, but I agree with this completely.
Awesome post Rekrul.
Entusman #12
GTR
Profile Blog Joined September 2004
51540 Posts
December 27 2009 23:01 GMT
#88
Rekrul comes back, honestly stuff I pretty much knew but it's good to get an actual person who knows this shit to talk about this situation as well.

Progaming is never going to change in Korea from what I see. It's going to follow the same method of K-Pop. Slave contracts, everyone stays in a house, no time to do leisure and extremely difficult to break into.
Commentator
jeddus
Profile Blog Joined September 2005
United States832 Posts
December 27 2009 23:02 GMT
#89
As with any competitive profession, in order to succeed (even if that means breaking even) you have to make enormous sacrifices.

Most people don't understand exactly what "sacrifice" means until they are asked to make it.
sex appeal
739
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Bearded Elder29903 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-12-27 23:04:47
December 27 2009 23:03 GMT
#90
Since when Draco was/is a rich kid? I guess I missed something.
But hell yeah, nice post Rekrul, explains all.
WriterSalty oldboy that loves memes | One and only back-to-back Liquibet Winner
DeViOuS
Profile Joined December 2009
United States22 Posts
December 27 2009 23:04 GMT
#91
Very solid post with a bit of humor. :D
Truth hurts, unfortunately, but great post none-the-less.
Team [Siege] / Less QQ, more pew pew.
Latham
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
9568 Posts
December 27 2009 23:04 GMT
#92
I had absolutely no idea how bad it was or just how dissimilar the cultures are. I guess I knew a little after reading the interviews with Draco and Nony after they came back but it wasn't really "knowing" in the true sense of the word. It was like... common knowledge in the likes of "medieval europe sucked ass" before reading about all the cruelty killing etc. I guess I never gave it a deeper thought.
Thanks for this.
For the curse of life is the curse of want. PC = https://be.pcpartpicker.com/list/4JknvV
Byo
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
Canada209 Posts
December 27 2009 23:05 GMT
#93
Clearly learning korean at fluency level is no small task, and to be honest, how long do you think it will be before there is no disadvantage in terms of language and culture when comparing to other korean aspiring progamers? What it comes down to is the koreans has to go out of their way to accomdate the foreigner, and unless something sparks this interest, i doubt they would be willing or interested.

Reality is, there's just so many disadvantage he has to face that other koreans don't need to even when you don't consider racism which to be honest there will be some level of.
Neivler
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
Norway911 Posts
December 27 2009 23:05 GMT
#94
I know why the IEF ppl want foreigners. Cuz when SC2 comes out, we know that the koreans will not dominate the scene like they are used to. So the teams that can get the good foreigners on their team will get the best players. And since some teams like eSTRO is taking in non korean players is to make a bond to the foreigner scene and then we will come to their team and not someone else's team.
I pwn noobs
city42
Profile Joined October 2007
1656 Posts
December 27 2009 23:05 GMT
#95
On December 28 2009 07:53 NeO)DarK wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 28 2009 07:39 city42 wrote:
How many of you people who are saying "you should learn the native language before moving to a country" have actually taught yourself to be conversationally fluent in Korean as a second language? We are not just talking about learning some verb forms or honorifics here. Getting to the point where you can walk up to a native and hold a complete conversation takes years of study, especially a language like Korean which (at least to my ears) appears to be spoken very quickly. Sure, the natives might treat you a little better if you are making an effort to learn their language, but how exactly does that help ret's starcraft situation? Koreans have a massive advantage with training because they can freely speak to one another about strategies and get help from coaches. With just elementary knowledge of the language, the communication barrier would still be there.


I am slowly learning the language as I have time to spare and when you speak two languages fluently, I see no reason for you to insult me on not understanding the language perfectly before posting. If ret had understanding of the language it would create a common-ground between himself and teammates and he would be able to communicate with them. Communication is important on these teams because you need to engage in conversation to help improve your game as well as earn the respect of better players. With respect comes more chances to practice with your teammates. I don't believe ANYONE said anything about having a basic understanding of the language - please be more constructive if you plan on negating more comments. Throwing words into peoples' posts is just idiotic.

What the hell? The one guilty of libel here is you, not me. The point I was attempting to make was, unless someone has actually gone through the experience of learning a second language and moving to a country where it is spoken, they should not be in a position to tell ret about its importance. How did I throw words into anyone's post? Unless people have first hand experience, their words are pure speculation. Thus, I asked whether or not they had the experience. No attempt was made by me to insult anyone, it was purely interrogative.

If you aren't going to take the time to read what I actually wrote, I will not continue debating this with you.
emucxg
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
Finland4559 Posts
December 27 2009 23:08 GMT
#96
On December 28 2009 08:03 Crucifix wrote:
Since when Draco was/is a rich kid? I guess I missed something.
But hell yeah, nice post Rekrul, explains all.

I heard Draco's dad is very rich = =
StorkHwaiting
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States3465 Posts
December 27 2009 23:12 GMT
#97
On December 28 2009 08:02 jeddus wrote:
As with any competitive profession, in order to succeed (even if that means breaking even) you have to make enormous sacrifices.

Most people don't understand exactly what "sacrifice" means until they are asked to make it.


You are really off.

Labor is a simple process. You look at an occupation and ask "what is the benefit of working this job?" Then you ask yourself "what is the cost?" This is called the cost/benefit analysis.

Becoming a progamer has HIGH costs, LOW benefit. Trying to conflate the issue into some sort of "enormous sacrifice" is retarded. If you need to make an enormous sacrifice, then there better be an enormous payoff!

Like investment banking maybe? Or becoming a heart surgeon? Or becoming an attorney?

You notice what the avg pay rate is for these jobs? Do you see why people are willing to make sacrifices for them? Do you see how they're not only economically rewarding but socially prestigious?

Now look at progaming, which arguably takes greater dedication and intellectual ability than most of these jobs. What is the pay? What is the social recognition? How is your health? How adaptable is the work experience to another occupation?

Yeah, exactly.
SoL[9]
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
Portugal1370 Posts
December 27 2009 23:18 GMT
#98
Rekrul have 100% right.
After that post i thing that some ppl that want to "become progamers" gonna thing alot better about that. We only see the "goodside" Rekrul you show the "darkside" of things.
Some dreams are hard to achieve...

Gl Ret

I Can Fly...
edahl
Profile Joined February 2008
Norway483 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-12-27 23:20:51
December 27 2009 23:20 GMT
#99
I honestly don't see how the nature of a pro house can be much of a surprise to anyone.
Corvi
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
Germany1406 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-12-27 23:22:22
December 27 2009 23:21 GMT
#100
out of curiosity: which language do koreans learn in school? it's obviously not english.

watched some documentation about german immigrants in korea earlier (nothing bw related) and they were not able to find a korean in a crowded street in seoul who could describe them the way in english. speaking english does not seem to be a good talent toi have in korea, which is kinda surprising for a country whose economy hugely relies on export.

maybe it's just the language barrier and not a lack of friendliness, that makes you think koreans are xenophobic.
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 29 30 31 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 3h 17m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
SortOf 131
FoxeR 65
ProTech41
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 19807
Flash 2175
Leta 95
Shine 82
GoRush 33
Icarus 8
Dota 2
XaKoH 236
NeuroSwarm158
League of Legends
JimRising 317
Counter-Strike
m0e_tv425
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King185
Other Games
summit1g5310
C9.Mang0491
ViBE77
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1076
StarCraft: Brood War
UltimateBattle 103
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Hupsaiya 79
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Lourlo1313
• Stunt565
Upcoming Events
The PondCast
3h 17m
KCM Race Survival
3h 17m
LiuLi Cup
4h 17m
Scarlett vs TriGGeR
ByuN vs herO
Replay Cast
17h 17m
Online Event
1d 3h
LiuLi Cup
1d 4h
Serral vs Zoun
Cure vs Classic
Big Brain Bouts
1d 10h
Serral vs TBD
RSL Revival
1d 20h
RSL Revival
2 days
LiuLi Cup
2 days
[ Show More ]
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
2 days
RSL Revival
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
LiuLi Cup
3 days
Replay Cast
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
LiuLi Cup
4 days
Wardi Open
4 days
Monday Night Weeklies
4 days
OSC
4 days
WardiTV Winter Champion…
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
WardiTV Winter Champion…
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-02-10
Rongyi Cup S3
Underdog Cup #3

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 1
LiuLi Cup: 2025 Grand Finals
Nations Cup 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
eXTREMESLAND 2025
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S1: W8
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
RSL Revival: Season 4
WardiTV Winter 2026
CCT Season 3 Global Finals
FISSURE Playground #3
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League Season 23
ESL Pro League Season 23
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.