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United States24805 Posts
Was fun but definitely will work better when the teams are balanced.
The better player on each team will kill the weaker player's units, making their weak teammate stronger. I'm looking forward to seeing that happen.
Also, we should consider if the spawn works when the civilian is in a bunker.
Finally, aside from some physical map balancing modifications, we were discussing a penalty for losing the civilian... but I'm not sure if I think it's necessary yet. Maybe losing the civilian causes a ~10 second delay where no units spawn, and then after the 10 seconds the civilian returns to your main along with all the units that were delayed in spawning.
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Might want to make middle a bit more interesting. Alternatively it would also be nice to do something like make the map wider so that you could have something like 2 Destinations being played side by side and use it that way. Making it taller and having 2 Blue Storms works too. Won't work for 128x128 maps since you need some space at the edge of the maps.
You could make it so that any unit that tries to leave their side of the map just teleports back instead of being killed.
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United States24805 Posts
Do you have any triggers for if someone tries to bring an air unit across the middle? I didn't try it. If not, you might want to hard-code in some response like relocating those units a bit closer to their side of the map.
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Okay, get other races in it [Unless other races are already included... I haven't checked the most recent version so sorry if this was already added]
I do not play P, so I have a stupidly hard time in the game
Change the spawning to a location instead of a unit/psi emitter [or at least something that a worker can't just take]
If it's a psi emitter, the enemy can just steal it and hide the probe inside 4 pylons [so goons can't spawn] and cannons [so zealots or anything else die instantly]
If it's a civilian, Protoss mindcontrol will cause it to glitch
Sure, you can say
if (player1 brings at least 2 civilians to anywhere)
{
Kill one civilian at anywhere
}
But the map won't be able to discern which one just got MC'd reliably, possibly causing the civilian in your base to die through the trigger, making your main civilian in the opponent's base causing that to also die
I guess a psi emitter would be better in the regard that it is immune to MC, lockdown, broodling, and what not. A civilian is better in the regard that one team can't get both the psi emitters and win outright like that
The psi emitter would be prone to glitching too. An overlord or shuttle or dropship could pick it up, fly over the no-man's land in the middle and die, causing the opponent's psi emitter to be lost forever.
And be sure to fix Nydas canals. If one team is two zergs, you can surely create a Nydas canal to funnel troops over to your allies
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On October 05 2009 03:47 micronesia wrote:
Do you have any triggers for if someone tries to bring an air unit across the middle? I didn't try it. If not, you might want to hard-code in some response like relocating those units a bit closer to their side of the map.
I experimented extensively with separating some area of the map, precisely for games such as these. There is an elegant solution for this (involving a lot of triggers), but it not necessary here. Almost as effective and much simpler is simply killing every unit that comes to the middle.
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On October 05 2009 04:11 Phrujbaz wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2009 03:47 micronesia wrote:
Do you have any triggers for if someone tries to bring an air unit across the middle? I didn't try it. If not, you might want to hard-code in some response like relocating those units a bit closer to their side of the map. I experimented extensively with separating some area of the map, precisely for games such as these. There is an elegant solution for this (involving a lot of triggers), but it not necessary here. Almost as effective and much simpler is simply killing every unit that comes to the middle.
It would be mildly annoying if you accidently bring your carrier fleet a bit too close to the middle while fighting a bunch of goliaths, but I guess the Protoss player would not mind getting their entire fleet and game pwnt.
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Flying units across the middle could be easily fixed by use of hyper triggers with triggers forcing the unit to turn back. If the player does indeed fight the triggers and wins and gets over to the other side, you can create a constant trigger that kills everything on the allie's side as punishment for trying to glitch
Thinking back on the unit spawner, it can also be a building
This just means it will be immobile
Is there any reason you would want a mobile unit spawner?
And if you do implement hyper triggers, the civilian respawning time will not work. [It will just glitch... just how the SC maps work]
I believe that in order for your unit spawner to respawn, you should need a certain amount of min/gas. One you have that amount, it will automatically take the min/gas and respawn your unit spawner.
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Calgary26004 Posts
I don't think the map needs to be that wide. It's impossible to use the minimap that well, and the gap in the middle is like 50% of the map. Just make it a tank width and use triggers please 
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Hmm... just something I noticed while looking at the triggers:
If multiple units are killed at once, won't it only spawn one unit? Or do the hyper triggers take care of that?
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At this moment I think unless the change is easy to do, I will not be modifying the map much more. I spent all weekend and I just don't have anymore time to dick around with it ^^
That said, anyone who does have time and wants to implement changes is encouraged by me to do so. Just post a link to your updated version and I will edit the OP to include it. Most likely in a separate section called "Alternate Versions" so I can specially credit you and explain the differences in your version.
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I would absolutely love to obs four top notch players playing this.
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On October 05 2009 04:48 cakemanofdoom wrote:
Hmm... just something I noticed while looking at the triggers:
If multiple units are killed at once, won't it only spawn one unit? Or do the hyper triggers take care of that?
This is something I'm aware of, but the solution is more time consuming than I can afford. If someone wants to fix it (you just make like 10 versions of every trigger with a different death count) they can go ahead.
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New version looks really good. I will try to get some kids over to try it.
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On October 05 2009 04:54 Chef wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2009 04:48 cakemanofdoom wrote:
Hmm... just something I noticed while looking at the triggers:
If multiple units are killed at once, won't it only spawn one unit? Or do the hyper triggers take care of that? This is something I'm aware of, but the solution is more time consuming than I can afford. If someone wants to fix it (you just make like 10 versions of every trigger with a different death count) they can go ahead.
I'm really noob at mapmaking, but what happens if you change it to subtract one death?
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I call you a genius and I tell you to edit the map to find out if it works.
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I think one problem (for which I can see no solution) is that unit transfer doesn't carry unit upgrades because the trigger has to create a unit from scratch. This means that in anything other than SSvSS (same races), the tandem aspect may be useless.
Consider a PT team versus a PP team. Whenever the Protoss kills a high templar, dragoon, or zealot and gives it to the Terran ally, it won't automatically come with storm, dragoon range, or zealot legs. This is because the map actually has to recreate the units that are killed rather than just transferring control and moving them.
My conclusion from this (since I believe it's impossible to preserve unit upgrades because of the way the tandem transfer has to work) is that the map actually does need to have a lot more resources/expos so that what happens is you develop the tech trees of two or three races rather than just one. This would allow you to keep up in tech a little bit, making the tandem-acquired units actually effective in the later game.
This might look like a minor problem when I use Protoss units as the example - after all, a DT already comes with cloak upgraded. :D Yet hydras will transfer without range or speed, zerglings will transfer without speed, marines will transfer without stim, tanks without siege, vultures without mines... right? I do think this loss of unit upgrades will make the multi-race armies less fun to play with, and I'm not a mapmaker so I wouldn't know if there were a simple or complicated way to compensate for it.
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does this have to have 4 human players, or does it work with comps as well?
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On October 05 2009 05:19 oBlade wrote:
I think one problem (for which I can see no solution) is that unit transfer doesn't carry unit upgrades because the trigger has to create a unit from scratch. This means that in anything other than SSvSS (same races), the tandem aspect may be useless.
Units you get essentially for free lategame might be less useful than they could be.
I don't understand why this is a problem.
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United States24805 Posts
On October 05 2009 05:23 natturner wrote:
does this have to have 4 human players, or does it work with comps as well?
I suggested the possibility to chef of allowing computer players to participate but I believe it would be a lot of work to include.
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On October 05 2009 05:02 cakemanofdoom wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2009 04:54 Chef wrote:On October 05 2009 04:48 cakemanofdoom wrote:
Hmm... just something I noticed while looking at the triggers:
If multiple units are killed at once, won't it only spawn one unit? Or do the hyper triggers take care of that? This is something I'm aware of, but the solution is more time consuming than I can afford. If someone wants to fix it (you just make like 10 versions of every trigger with a different death count) they can go ahead. I'm really noob at mapmaking, but what happens if you change it to subtract one death?
Tested it in single player, seems to work.
What I did was set everyone except me to comp. Then I gave myself a reaver, and p3 some drones and some lings. I only changed drones to subtract one kill; lings were left at set to 0. black sheep wall, show me the money, operation cwal. Built some scarabs, shot the drones. Killed 3 drones and 3 drones appeared on the other side of the map. Then I attacked the lings; only one showed up on the other side of the map.
EDIT: Tested again cuz I didn't see how many lings died in the first test. Like 6 lings died, but only one showed up.
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EPT
