[T] Savior's Resolve - Page 12

On September 18 2009 13:14 ForSC2 wrote:

Now multiply you by the majority of the Starcraft community at the time and why the fuck would anyone want to keep playing. I applaud Savior for making the right choice.

On September 20 2009 22:12 3 Lions wrote:

but Savior already won everything that was worth winning and was miles above everyone else (except Bisu). He didn't need to keep playing for money and competition.

On September 20 2009 21:48 Sadist wrote:



they keep playing for money and competition.

You dont play for the fans lol. The fans are nice when you have them but true greatness isnt predicated on the fans liking you or not.

During the 24 hours that I remained awake, I spent the entire time gaming. I did not and could not think of anything else. No one can play the games for me. This was entirely my task, and was something I had to do alone. No matter who I faced, I did not want to lose, and more than anything else I did not want to disappoint the fans that looked forward to my matches. And so I practiced even harder. What happened around me, how my friends were doing – I had no time to spare for anything but games. In that way, I made much of that one minute, one second practicing. And little by little, I was becoming a fool for victory.

When my prepared strategy brilliantly catches the opponent unprepared, there is a sense of achievement that I feel, but it is the cheers from my fans that fill my heart. The person playing the game should not be the only one that is happy. The game must be played so that the person watching the game can enter the game together. That is the true significance of a strategy simulation game, and the way to gather fans at the gaming arena and in front of the television. If the fans could watch me playing and they each could have their individual ideas, then I could not be happier.

I sometimes used to live without realizing that my fans existed. When the game was too difficult, when I showed myself losing, I tried hard to turn away from my fans. I scolded my foolish self. But my fans did not scold me. Instead of scolding me and asking what was wrong with me, they encouraged me, telling me to go for it. When I did well, they were not only happy for me, but when I was tired and worn out, they consoled me. The fans became my support. When my mind was scattered and I would shake, they helped me to stand firm. Because I have these fans, I am such a happy idiot.

There comes a moment when a progamer must play, even when he does not want to. If I liked games just as a hobby, I would not have been able to endure the life of a progamer. Gaming is everything to a professional gamer. It is a hobby as well as a duty. Gaming for a progamer is like laboring. When they play, they must play games, and when they rest, they must play games. And if they are a part of a team, they cannot freely go outside. They must be prepared to give up a certain portion of their personal life. There were many times when I wanted to watch movies, go out for a drink, and spend a comfortable time like other friends of my age. I am a person too, and games are not all that is fun in the world.

On September 21 2009 08:02 Sadist wrote:
If you want to be great you dont play for the fans. I mean I understand wanting to give them a show and entertain them. But you can do that while being great.

Look at Tiger Woods. Roger Federer. Michael Jordan.

They didnt play for the fans....the fans were nice and ya they may have given them a boost here and there but they play for themselves and the competition. The fans can remind you that you need to try your best but honestly you either have it or you dont and if you strictly depend on fans to motivate you you wont be great for all that long at anything you do.

On October 28 2007 05:45 pubbanana wrote:
When the Emperor was hiding from his father so that he could play StarCraft, when the Storm Zerg was lying to his mother so that he could play games, when the Genius was sitting in a smoke filled PC room with his school friends, when the Hero was waiting in the cold to be able to sign up for a Big Game Hunters tournament ...

On October 28 2007 05:45 pubbanana wrote:
Six years ago, there was no value or fame associated with being called a progamer. Six years later, these four have made the title of "progamer" something that is truly admired and envied by many.

When my parents heard how I wanted to make gaming as my profession, they trusted me and gave me permission, though they were not completely at ease. Would it be selfish if I said that this was when I ascertained the love of my parents? I wasn't one to cause too much trouble, but I didn't even live up to half of my parents’ expectations; yet they earnestly tried to understand me, saying that they would faithfully watch over me. They knew that no one else could live my life for me and that life was something one had to endure, no matter how difficult and lonely. All they wanted was for their son to live with a little less pain and trouble, and with an earnest heart they nagged at me. For these parents, I was determined to be a proud and respectful son.

GGplay: Sometimes I lost games due to hunger.

- Why do you think for players who fall down, getting back seems so hard
▲ Boxer: Because they aren't sacrificing enough. Like I said previously, top players know how to go back but they must know how to let go of all of life's pleasures and other stuff. --- But if you are suppose to sacrifice everything how can you live life properly? This is the hardest part.
▲ Savior: I agree the biggest problem is sacrificing. Even if you say you want to let go you can't. Then we think stuff like 'what if I sacrificed everything but I couldn't get results?'

On September 21 2009 14:27 ForSC2 wrote:

Starcraft was a pioneering field that was seen as something akin to playtime for a homeless bum at one point. If those fans did not exist professional Starcraft would not have existed. If you're trying to build something from nothing do you think you can just play for yourself and be competitive without thought of whether or not people are going to want to watch this game?

Many Korean pros grew up being seen as nothing but Internet Cafe Bums.

http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=61613


These players were Boxer, Yellow, Nada, Reach, etc.


These kids grew up enduring the expectations and disappointments of their parents in regards to their being a player. Boxer's book "Crazy as Me" talks heavily on this subject.

In these cultures you are brought up and expected to be a respectful and dutiful son. There is a certain degree of "I owe this to my parents" because they raised you. How do you think Boxer's parents felt about him when everyone saw him as an internet cafe bum?

What if Boxer walked down this path with his parent's faith in him despite their disappointments and couldn't win a single game, how would he be able to face his parents again? Because he was in a pioneering field, he had to show them that even an internet café bum could do something respectable. And he had to be willing to work that much harder to make sure he could be someone his parents would be proud of.


When Boxer's parents tell him they don't agree with he's doing, but they trust him in this field they can't even understand you really think he's only going to be playing for himself and the competition?

And what about the fans who because of the sheer fact that they exist allow him to give something back to his parents that had faith in him?

This is a common theme in Starcraft Progaming. Do you remember when Xellos was crying onstage saying it was because of his mom he was here after all of those years of fighting over playing a game? Who else remembers when Nal_Ra said at Blizcon to his fans "Because you exist. We exist."

How about when Xellos made a commitment to stay with GO even without definite sponsorship was he doing that for himself? How about when players paid out of their own pocket to feed their team was that for themselves or to be competitive? How about when Nada stayed with Wemade/Pantech a bottom tier team when he was the best and most accomplished player?

All of these athletes in other sports (Tiger Woods, Roger Federer, Michael Jordan) could play very comfortably because their sports were established with huge salaries. Even if you fail at being a NBA Player, no one looks at playing basketball like it's a joke.

If your profession in society is seen as a joke, something not even considered a profession, you have to work that much harder for any respect in a field.

A top athlete might practice 6 hours a day, a top starcraft player might practice 16 hours a day. There's a lot of factors for this such as your body needing recovery time in order to repair etc. What this allows is most athletes to have a girlfriend, meet celebrities, and enjoy their life. Lebron James as possibly the best nba player right now is an avid video game fan, do you think any Samsung player in comparison has the time to be half decent at Vollyball?

I brought this up because there is a big difference in how much athletes from other sports and starcraft players have to give up for their profession. Which is why the comparison isn't very fair to me. Because when I look at this guy that can't even eat vs this guy that can't buy his 3rd mansion there is a huge difference in their priorities. If you had to live forever in a tiny room and gave up not only things like having friends and a girlfriend, but basic things like sunshine, food to eat, personal security, do you think most basketball players would be able to do that just to be able to say they're the best? Because they care that much about themselves and the competition?


I look at progaming as a whole and from stories I read about players all I ever see is sacrifice, sacrifice, sacrifice. This and the influence of Korean sociocentric culture on Starcraft as well as interviews lead me to believe most players play for many people, not just themselves. Which is often their fans, their parents, the development of esports, and their team. (Why do you think it makes sense for Starcraft to be a team sport when games are all done individually?)


"But if you are suppose to sacrifice everything how can you live life properly? This is the hardest part."

sAviOr is the front-runner of the P-Generation in the e-Sports world. Players like SlayerS_`BoxeR`, [ReD]NaDa, [Oops]Reach, [NC]...YellOw, Nal_rA and others who dominated Starcraft in its early stages after its release, had a different mindset.
Weighing their personal development as much as e-Sports development in general, the „old“ generation carried a great duty for e-Sports as a whole, resolutely giving up personal gain for a greater cause. In 2002, when SlayerS_`BoxeR`, who had gotten an individual sponsor with Tongyang Orion, heard that a team league was going to be opened, he donated over 100.000$ of sponsor money to the community. [ReD]NaDa and [NC]...YellOw made lease contracts and played for other teams in order to support their original team. Also [Oops]Reach and Nal_rA helped to maintain their original teams by transferring to other teams.

Boxer: That’s a bit of a stretch. Anyway, progamers getting media exposure isn’t enough to promote E-sports. We have to try and change the negative perception that video games hold in society. We need to make people realize that E-sports is an environment based on fair competition, and that progame teams are groups of professionals, not a bunch of addicts.

Bisu: That’s something I’ll have to learn from Boxer as we live together. I’ve only thought about playing well, and that leading to popularity and fame, not about the big picture.


Let’s close this interview with final remarks

Bisu: I think I’m a very fortunate player. I managed to meet a great mentor like Boxer after a move to SKT1. I hope more of the younger gamers can learn about Boxer’s ideas for progaming. For that to happen, he needs to stay active, right? I hope you succeed as a thirties progamer, and I’ll be helping you at your side.

Boxer: Bisu’s current skill and future potential make him a fine new icon for E-sports. I want to emphasize the mindset a star player needs to have. Every single word you say, or thing you do can become the stereotype of progamers for the public. So you need to speak and act only after thinking deeply. If you can keep the mindset that you are representing all progamers, then I have no doubt that you’ll be a great representative for us all.

On September 22 2009 03:16 Sadist wrote:
That is not the reason why they try to continue to succeed. My point was that your reasoning for savior trying to come back is BS. He gave an answer for the public. If he really wanted to succeed hed be able to motivate himself.

Now multiply you by the majority of the Starcraft community at the time and why the fuck would anyone want to keep playing. I applaud Savior for making the right choice.

If you want to be the best you play for yourself. The fans are a nice side effect and you do your best to satisfy them but you have to go home to yourself and your family. Not the fans.

edit:

In that quote boxer is talking about being a professional. Nothing about the fans. Savior didnt practice because real life> sitting in a room for 12-16hrs a day playing bw with no apparent end in sight. He didnt slack off because he wasnt liked and shit wtf. Progaming is a BUSINESS. You play for your money and for competition. The rest are side effects.

Weighing their personal development as much as e-Sports development in general, the „old“ generation carried a great duty for e-Sports as a whole, resolutely giving up personal gain for a greater cause. In 2002, when SlayerS_`BoxeR`, who had gotten an individual sponsor with Tongyang Orion, heard that a team league was going to be opened, he donated over 100.000$ of sponsor money to the community. [ReD]NaDa and [NC]...YellOw made lease contracts and played for other teams in order to support their original team. Also [Oops]Reach and Nal_rA helped to maintain their original teams by transferring to other teams.

The fans are a nice side effect and you do your best to satisfy them but you have to go home to yourself and your family. Not the fans.

lead me to believe most players play for many people, not just themselves. Which is often their fans, their parents, the development of esports, and their team.

On September 22 2009 04:56 Sadist wrote:
you are telling me that if they had fans and were trying to grow a sport but wouldnt get paid and sucked they would keep playing? GTFO

Weighing their personal development as much as e-Sports development in general