CJ's sAviOr: "I'm no longer pressured by my losses... Look forward to my Starleague win"
sAviOr is a star player that represents Korean e-Sports. However, he has been in a slump for the last two years, not having any achievements. Now, he is ready to once again become an idol to the e-Sports fans. We heard his resolution for the new season during the CJ workshop at Daebu Island.
"The media was pressuring me with the word 'comeback' every time I won a game last season, but now I think it was to send me a message. Since so many people want me to achieve something, it feels like I must do something."
Until recently, sAviOr was pressured by the media and his fans. He said that it was hard for him to even play because of the negative comments.
"People told me that I should be thankful for the negative comments, because they are a form of attention. Now I'm used to it. It's better than not caring at all, but I used to suffer a lot because I was afraid of losing."
sAviOr said he thought about why he had to win and found the answer.
"The last two years have been very hard for me, but I thought about it a lot during the off-season. I found a reason I must win. I'm no longer pressured about my losses. I will return to my old self when I enjoyed playing the game."
He said that when he first debuted, playing any match was really fun, whether he won or lost. He loved to play against the top gamers without any pressure to win. He wants to once again be able to enjoy the game, without worrying about the results
"I did well when I used to enjoy the game. I think I'll do that again this season. Whether I win or lose, I am going to enjoy the practice and the match. I want to revive my passion for the game and win a Starleague trophy this season. I also want to win the Proleague."
"To tell you the truth, I'm not the type that practices a lot. But I am training harder than before so I can feel the flow of the game with my body. I will work hard to do better in the upcoming season and truly make a comeback."
마재윤은 대한민국 e스포츠를 대표하는 스타 플레이어다. 하지만 지난 2년간 슬럼프를 겪으며 이렇다 할 활약을 못하고 팬들로부터 비난의 화살을 받아야만 했다. 하지만 마재윤은 이번 시즌 부활을 외치며 e스포츠 팬들의 우상이 될 채비를 갖췄다. 대부도에서 만난 마재윤으로부터 새 시즌에 대한 각오를 들었다.
"언론과 방송에서 지난 시즌 제가 이길 때마다 '부활'이라고 말을 했는데 처음에는 부담스러웠지만 이제는 저에게 무엇인가 메시지를 전하고 있다고 생각을 하고 있습니다. 무엇인가를 해주기를 바라는 사람들이 있고 저에게 무엇인가 원하는 사람들이 있기 때문에 저 역시 무엇인가 해야만 할 것 같다고 느끼고 있죠."
마재윤은 얼마 전까지만 하더라도 언론과 방송, 그리고 팬들의 관심에 부담을 느낄 수밖에 없었다. 팬들의 비난과 악플은 그나마 관심이라고 받아들일 수는 있었지만 경기에 출전하는 것만으로도 힘이 들던 시간이 있었다고.
"팬들에게 욕을 먹는 것에 대해서는 저를 아껴주시는 분들이 관심이 있기 때문에 고마워 해야할 일이라고 말씀해 주셔서 어느 정도 익숙해졌습니다. 무관심보다는 낫잖아요. 하지만 지는 것이 두려워 한동안 정말 고생을 많이 했습니다."
하지만 마재윤은 바닥으로 떨어진 상황에 머물 수 없었다. 왜 승리를 해야하고 왜 팀을 이끌어야하는지 고민했고 이제는 그에 맞는 답을 찾았다고 한다.
"지난 2년 동안 정말 힘든 시간을 보냈죠. 하지만 이번 비시즌 동안 생각이라는 것을 정말 많이 했습니다. 그러면서 내가 이겨야만 하는 이유를 찾았습니다. 더 이상 패배에 대한 부담은 없습니다. 이제 경기를 즐기는 예전으로 돌아갈 것입니다."
마재윤은 슈마GO 시절 경기석에 들어서는 것이 즐겁기만 했다고 한다. 지는 것에 대한 부담 없이 강자들과 대결하는 것이 좋기만 했다고. 그래서 이번 시즌을 앞두고는 게임을 즐기는데 주력하겠다고 한다.
"게임을 즐길 때에는 성적이 좋았어요. 올 시즌에는 즐겨보려 합니다. 승리든, 패배든, 경기장에 나서기 위해 연습하는 것부터, 경기석에 앉는 것까지 모두 즐길 겁니다. 즐거움이라는 초심으로 돌아가 이번 시즌에는 스타리그가 됐든 MSL이 됐든 우승컵 하나 정도는 들고 싶습니다. 또 프로리그 우승컵을 들고도 싶고요."
마재윤을 새 시즌을 앞두고 이미지 트레이닝을 더욱 집중하고 있다고 한다. 이날 대한민국 최고 레이서 김의수 선수가 마침 강연을 통해 이미지 트레이닝의 중요성을 언급한 후였기 때문에 마재윤의 이미지 트레이닝의 언급은 남다르게 들렸다.
"솔직히 제가 연습을 많이 하는 스타일은 아니지 아니잖아요. 하지만 경기에 대한 감각을 몸으로 느끼기 위해 이미지 트레이닝을 이전보다 더 열심히 하고 있습니다. 다음 시즌에 더 나은 성적을 내고 진정 부활을 말할 수 있도록 노력하겠습니다."
I hope he does well but I honestly can't really believe in him again until he actually does win something (not special events). Actions speak louder than words after all.
It all depends on his motivation i guess. Whenever people try to force that certain spark up on themselves they had in their "golden age" it usually doesn't work. Either it comes by a change of environment, like with july, or it's driven by some emotional event like with nada.
Don't get me wrong, it would be great seeing savior really making a run for it, but champions have nothing to loose / no obligations to the game anymore. It's a lot easier to quit trying than going all the way for big names like savior.
How many times have you seen friends start playing starcraft only to quit shortly after it...
On September 17 2009 05:04 l10f wrote: "To tell you the truth, I'm not the type that practices a lot. But I am training harder than before so I can feel the flow of the game with my body. I will work hard to do better in the upcoming season and truly make a comeback."
WHAT!? Not the type that practices a lot? He means now right? Not before?
On September 17 2009 05:04 l10f wrote: "To tell you the truth, I'm not the type that practices a lot. But I am training harder than before so I can feel the flow of the game with my body. I will work hard to do better in the upcoming season and truly make a comeback."
WHAT!? Not the type that practices a lot? He means now right? Not before?
It's possible he means both. Savior's been around for a loooong time, back before all progaming teams had sponsors. And back then there were a lot more players who were simply talented even if they didn't practice a lot.
I don't believe savior can win a title but I think he can go very far in the playoff rounds. He showed fairly recently that his ZvT lategame is still incredibly strong in a game vs GoGo or Hiya or something I think.
I just think the main problem for the old fella is ZvZ and it being so abundant in this latest season. If the maps favor terran slightly this season as it looks like it might then he might have a shot at placing well amongst the zergs.
I believe in MJY, if he can really come back even in partial form, it would be what all the Savior fans have been waiting for, true he's said this stuff before, but we all know that Savior was a confidence fueled winner and loses hurt him drastically, if he has this new mindset I think he'll pull through this time.
[B]On September 17 2009 05:04 l10f wrote: "People told me that I should be thankful for the negative comments, because they are a form of attention. Some people should just GTFO."
ROFL fixed...
Anyways i'm glad he's going to try and go for another stint, it kinda felt wierd that his WL streak wasn't even mentioned tho.
Great read, really looking forward to seeing him play this season. You could tell he wasn't having fun the past two years, and more so then just because he was losing often.
Very good article. I'm not really a fan of Savior, but I really like his mentality in this article. Play to enjoy the game. That's the most important thing. Good luck to Savior
lol yesterday or the day before i had a vision that he will at least make it to the semifinals of this OSL. i somehow felt he would do it. but you know, there is still Kim Taek Yong.
Ironic that this bit of news comes almost a year since his announcement at BlizzCon 2008:
Hopefully, he will do more this time around. The only thing he managed to achieve since BlizzCon 2008 was to defeat his two arch-nemesises Bisu and FBH and win the StarCraft Heritage League (which is something, but not exactly the reign of destruction either ).
Wavy hair... Kekeke so Savior straightens his hair, eh XD
This interview is nice but to be honest I'm not very worked up about a Savior comeback. I just don't think he can do it again. I want him to prove me wrong though.
You guys are supposed to not care, because he gets pressured when you care and he starts losing games because he doesn't want to lose games because everybody cares if he loses games!
How can you not love savior??? Christ sakes- what a man. Even in the face of so much shit, and his slump, losses and everything- he just mans up and says- screw losing. I like playing starcraft. If i learn to love the game, then what does it matter if i win or lose?
That third picture looks like Savior's spitting blood or something, kinda wierd lol.
Pretty obvious to me at least that Savior's time is over... I mean even if he makes it back to his prior skill level I doubt he'd be a threat to top players like Jaedong, Flash, Bisu... Savior's play was just so influential none of the current top players should have any trouble taking down a "back in form" Savior, they've all studied Savior's play and taken it to its final conclusion. I can't really think of any examples of a legitimate comeback after 2 years of obscurity anyway, StarCraft's a very unforgiving game.
The funny thing about Savior is that there are replays of him effortlessly destroying Flash and Sea in long games. He comes out and demolishes Bisu and Stork without trying. They he loses strings of matches to nobodys on TV...it's just really weird.
Talent is just potential. The thing about potential is...he's not using it recently. But maybe it's just the pressure that's been preventing him. He'll definitely get play time next season with the Bo7 format.
On September 17 2009 08:10 Avidkeystamper wrote: Talent is just potential. The thing about potential is...he's not using it recently. But maybe it's just the pressure that's been preventing him. He'll definitely get play time next season with the Bo7 format.
Well yea Talent is just potential and Savior has a nearly unending pool of it.
I will always hold a small belief that Savior will rip all shit up one day again... a change in mind set could be exactly what he needs. Notice though I wasn't one of the ones screaming 2009 like it mattered.
Savior has more than enough talent and skill to be a major contender... if we see that all the better.
On September 17 2009 07:39 Marathe wrote:I can't really think of any examples of a legitimate comeback after 2 years of obscurity anyway, StarCraft's a very unforgiving game.
1. Savior has the potential to make a comeback. 2. Savior won't make a comeback, unless something drastic happens.
Point 1 is in regards to Savior's lack of practice. This means he has a lot of room for improvement. And he's already super talented who knows the game much better than most players out there. Just look at Stork as someone who can just randomly pick up his game whenever he feels like taking a break from WoW.
Point 2 is because Savior shows no drive. For those of you who haven't seen it yet, I suggest you watch Micheal Jordan's HOF speech. Why is Jordan the greatest basketball player? Because he plays with chip on his shoulder. Because he motivates himself constantly. So he practiced harder and prepared harder than everyone else. Do I see that in Savior? No. He can't play "for fun", because he's already won his titles and has no natural drive to obtain more. So he needs to manufacture them. And he apparently doesn't.
In the end, Savior playing for fun will result in noobs practicing 12 hours a day relentlessly kicking his ass. This isn't 2007 anymore.
On September 17 2009 09:40 baubo wrote: I believe the following.
1. Savior has the potential to make a comeback. 2. Savior won't make a comeback, unless something drastic happens.
Point 1 is in regards to Savior's lack of practice. This means he has a lot of room for improvement. And he's already super talented who knows the game much better than most players out there. Just look at Stork as someone who can just randomly pick up his game whenever he feels like taking a break from WoW.
Point 2 is because Savior shows no drive. For those of you who haven't seen it yet, I suggest you watch Micheal Jordan's HOF speech. Why is Jordan the greatest basketball player? Because he plays with chip on his shoulder. Because he motivates himself constantly. So he practiced harder and prepared harder than everyone else. Do I see that in Savior? No. He can't play "for fun", because he's already won his titles and has no natural drive to obtain more. So he needs to manufacture them. And he apparently doesn't.
In the end, Savior playing for fun will result in noobs practicing 12 hours a day relentlessly kicking his ass. This isn't 2007 anymore.
Yeah, it's 2010! Savior will destroy everyone in 2010! yes! hint of sarcasm! rofl!
Find your love for the game, again... Savior! We love to watch you play it.
And IMO sAviOr already proved he can comeback. At one point in 2009 he was like 12-2, he whooped Bisu, and he was in RO8 in MSL, and was knocked out in a ZvZ (his weakest).
He's got to just make a "better" comeback if people are going to remember it.
Statistically, Savior's recent record in ZvP and ZvT is pretty good. The problem is that he's a ZvZ anti-bonjwa. And watching his ZvZs, it's not just luck, he's just terrible at the matchup. If he doesn't buckle down and learn modern ZvZ, all he can hope for is that the map pool becomes less Zerg-friendly... but the new proleague maps seem like the exact opposite.
(Or he could try to race pick T or P against Z, heh.)
It's not like Savior doesn't understand modern ZvZ. He places himself in a position of advantage in even his most current games. The big problem is that the majority of Zerg players have improved their Muta micro to a level he can't compete. Every time a game goes to Mutas/Scourge he is consistently outmicroed and loses. Consequently, then the ability to change strategies and attempt ling busts goes down because opponents know he can't win if a game gets to that point.
Maybe reclaiming his feeling of what it was like in the past is one and the same personal dilemma. Maybe it was beating Stork in WoW PvP. Maybe we'll never know.
Nada and July never just "disappeared". Nada has always played well and July only played mediocre while he was having trouble with his team. As soon as transferred to STX he won another OSL... Savior's got absolutely nothing going for him. As far as I can tell he's still just trying to play "Savior Style SC" which has been pretty well "solved" imo by the new school players.
On September 17 2009 11:58 Marathe wrote: Nada and July never just "disappeared". Nada has always played well and July only played mediocre while he was having trouble with his team. As soon as transferred to STX he won another OSL... Savior's got absolutely nothing going for him. As far as I can tell he's still just trying to play "Savior Style SC" which has been pretty well "solved" imo by the new school players.
I don't know what you're talking about. It's a myth that Savior disappeared after Bisu. Savior was indisputably the best Zerg in the world until JD's OSL run at the very earliest, and played extremely well after Bisu (just didn't win any more leagues which is all that people expect from a guy like him). That means Savior was the best Zerg in the world until approximately November 2007.
Savior's 2008 was pretty disappointing but he still kept qualifying for MSL (and always has). I would say after July's OSL win in August 2008, Savior has actually played at a higher level overall than Nada or July.
He reaches msl and osl finals at the same time as well as participating in various proleague etc matches. With his schedule how much could he practice.
On September 17 2009 11:58 Marathe wrote: Nada and July never just "disappeared". Nada has always played well and July only played mediocre while he was having trouble with his team. As soon as transferred to STX he won another OSL... Savior's got absolutely nothing going for him. As far as I can tell he's still just trying to play "Savior Style SC" which has been pretty well "solved" imo by the new school players.
Nada was still reaching the finals after his 3 msl 1 osl bonjwa. He just kept facing Iloveoov after in the finals and getting 2nd to him. If you were first for a while and now even at best you'd only be able to get second it's kinda like what's the point of reaching the finals every time just to lose to some guy.
"doesnt practice alot" hmmm. maybe he ought to instead of going to get his balls washed. this is probably the 73rd "No, I'm really coming back this time" MJY interview. best of luck as always...but lets see some results instead of a photo-shoot and interview.
savior slumped because he didnt keep up with the SC times. Everyone figured him out and went gunning for him. He didn't respond well mentally and so spiraled down. Instead of practicing and developing a new style he sought to drown his anguish in the mouths of korean whores.
On September 17 2009 16:00 Seraphim wrote: Considering CJ's strict practice regime, I found it surprising that Savior said that he didn't practice that much.
I think it's been alluded to here and there that even in CJ, Savior pretty much had free reign to do what he wanted with the exception of one B-team demotion wake up call.
This makes me understand how young these progamers really are. Being able to control these kind of emotions sometimes takes years to develope, if ever. I'm really glad sAviOr has finally gotten some sense back and does what he came to do in the first place, play with love for the game. I salute him like I always have and wish him good luck in the future - Ma Jae Yoon forever!
It must be really hard to make a come back in CJ, because they already have so many good players. Im hoping for the starleagues... but maybe with the bo7 system he'll have a chance in proleague too
I think even tho he may lack the mechanics of modern zergs, he has so much raw talent that he still can make a sort of comeback.
I don't he will be back at bonjwa level again, but I still believe that with the proper motivation and with a pinch of luck, he could easily surpass Kwanro in CJ's lineup and maybe even compete with Effort for the CJ zerg ace spot.
Savior ain't going to dethrone JD, but he can still be a top 5 zerg, I believe.
If July can do it so can Savior. I believe he will crash it and go down to descent level like July has done. (July is still very good vs P and descent vs T)
On September 17 2009 20:07 writer22816 wrote: Savior won't even qualify for either leagues. We going to to see something akin to Magma's ultimate trash talk.
Magma: the six dragons are actually six acorns lol
then he loses to much, MUCH in a bo3 with TEARS OF THE MOON as one of the maps. Then he retires.
On September 17 2009 13:54 omninmo wrote: "doesnt practice alot" hmmm. maybe he ought to instead of going to get his balls washed. this is probably the 73rd "No, I'm really coming back this time" MJY interview. best of luck as always...but lets see some results instead of a photo-shoot and interview.
savior slumped because he didnt keep up with the SC times. Everyone figured him out and went gunning for him. He didn't respond well mentally and so spiraled down. Instead of practicing and developing a new style he sought to drown his anguish in the mouths of korean whores.
.
I never cared if Savior came back or not. I liked him as a person.
Savior went out in a legendary way, after that storywise almost every finals has been pretty mediocre. (I'm not talking about in terms of gameplay. I mean like epic Boxer vs Yellow kind of hype.) Also the gameplay of some of the current "epic" ones have been pretty bad. Golden Mouse July and Jaedong 3:0 no chance fights. Stork vs Fantasy was decent storywise with Stork choking from a 2:0 lead. Bisu vs Mind was during the following MSL
In his post when HonestTea is praying for Nal_Ra instead of Bisu/Savior. He says:
"It reminds me that someday, even Savior and Bisu will stop being bulletproof."
Even when we were praying for the old generation the new generation of Bisu fails to an even newer generation and thus begins Bisu's half year slump.
The thing about Savior that many people seem to miss is that when he was good most people didn't like him. People dressed him up like hitler, only watched games in hopes that he'd lose, and made threads seriously discussing whether or not Savior's dominance was good for Starcraft. People felt this way up till the moment he won his first OSL and finally after his entire career gave him a little bit of credit standing there after having defeated the most accomplished player of all time. Then right after his greatest moment he loses 3:0 to what would become the best Protoss player of all time. At this point Savior had two options: 1) Play his ass off so he could likely become like Nada was after Nada had won OSL/MSLx3 and got to the finals over and over only to lose to Iloveoov. 2) Say fuck it to the majority of people that hated him for being that good, get some hookers, and walk out on the majority of sc fans that couldn't even appreciate him for being that good. In Starcraft for one moment we saw real perfection and we threw it away because perfect wasn't good enough for us. So I'm not bothered when Savior picked the second option omninmo. Because maybe when he left like he did we all realized we didn't deserve him.
On February 24 2007 23:05 rgfdxm wrote: A lot of people seem to forget that Savior is human. For these people, he is resented because of his dominant play, but this dominant play is never really credited to him. Savior is instead a force of nature interrupting the world of progaming and ruthlessly keeping "real" human progamers down, a scourge that stops the best of BW from winning. His composure during and after play makes him "robotic" and "inhuman," his builds "macro-whorish" and exploitative.
What I think more people should really realize is that Savior himself is a 20 year old kid. He wasn't granted some great gift from the heavens to be able to play BW. He worked damn hard to get where he is, and every aspect of his skills and strengths now was forged over years of practice and determination, just like a Ra or a Boxer or a July.
We all acknowledge what a daunting - no, terrifying experience it must be to get in front of a crowd of hundreds or thousands and even more on television, including family and friends, and be expected to play a lightning fast game of skill and concentration against what you know will be a world-class opponent. We acknowledge from the example of players like Midas or Canata that practice, skill, and dedication alone won't win you titles. Mental strength to me is the hallmark of Savior's style, and I see many people resent him for it when to me it is a thing to be respected, whether or not I like him, whether or not I like his games.
When Savior got on that stage opposite Nada a day ago, on maps known not to favor his race, playing against the most accomplished player in history, I don't understand how you could not give Savior some respect for his composure and beautifully consistent play. Savior's style is to make no mistakes, play for every small advantage he can get and let the mistakes of his opponent accumulate to spell their doom. I can understand that some people will find that more boring than, say, July's balls-to-the-wall aggressiveness. But that is why July is the God of War, and Savior the Maestro. Feel free to appreciate tactics over strategy or vice versa, but one is not more "inhuman."
I'm not especially a fan of Savior. I'm a very optimistic kind of person, and I enjoy seeing all players succeed. I would have been happy with any result of the semifinal matches. I can understand that other people would rather see some players win than others, but the outright dismissal of Savior as something other than human frustrates me. Those of you who demonize him, remember that he's put in the time, he developed his signature builds himself, he is elevating the play of his race to new heights. Imagine how it would be for you in Savior's position. Could you be as cool, as composed, as consistent as he is? Savior, name change or no, is still the same person, the same human, he was years ago as IPXZerg. His dominance is not a fact of life, it's a result of his growth as a player in every way.
There's no zerg master waiting for him back at CJ, ready to give him the new builds that win on maps like RT and Longinus 2 against players like Hwasin, Midas, Nada, no cheat sheet that gives him the answers. He's a man with a target on his back, doing his best and making it up as he goes along. If Savior's defiler use is godly, it isn't because God hates Nada, it's because Savior more than anyone around him realized the power of defilers and practiced his art to perfection. If you care to deride him for "drone-whoring," then I'll challenge you to a game of BW PvZ, but you're not allowed to make drones.
He was given the same tools as every other zerg in BW history, and I can't disdain him for seeing their potential in ways no one else has. Other players have done that before, and most of them are revered and respected. Those who hated Boxer and his dropships, Nada and his multitasking, oov and his macro are nowadays mostly gone. Those players contributed greatly to the game of BW and have masses of fans to show for it. Any of you who can still honestly not respect them now, feel free to disrespect Savior and pray for him to lose all his games and go back to being a nobody as IPXZerg. Then I'll know who not to pay attention to.
On September 17 2009 20:07 writer22816 wrote: Savior won't even qualify for either leagues. We going to to see something akin to Magma's ultimate trash talk.
Magma: the six dragons are actually six acorns lol
then he loses to much, MUCH in a bo3 with TEARS OF THE MOON as one of the maps. Then he retires.
Much wasn't a dragon
Thats the point. If Much wasnt a dragon and he got 3-0'd on favourable maps then what is he compared to the dragons.
On September 17 2009 20:07 writer22816 wrote: Savior won't even qualify for either leagues. We going to to see something akin to Magma's ultimate trash talk.
Magma: the six dragons are actually six acorns lol
then he loses to much, MUCH in a bo3 with TEARS OF THE MOON as one of the maps. Then he retires.
Much wasn't a dragon
Thats the point. If Much wasnt a dragon and he got 3-0'd on favourable maps then what is he compared to the dragons.
lmao
1. he was sarcastic 2. know what you're talking about
On September 17 2009 11:58 Marathe wrote: Nada and July never just "disappeared". Nada has always played well and July only played mediocre while he was having trouble with his team. As soon as transferred to STX he won another OSL... Savior's got absolutely nothing going for him. As far as I can tell he's still just trying to play "Savior Style SC" which has been pretty well "solved" imo by the new school players.
I don't know what you're talking about. It's a myth that Savior disappeared after Bisu. Savior was indisputably the best Zerg in the world until JD's OSL run at the very earliest, and played extremely well after Bisu (just didn't win any more leagues which is all that people expect from a guy like him). That means Savior was the best Zerg in the world until approximately November 2007.
Savior's 2008 was pretty disappointing but he still kept qualifying for MSL (and always has). I would say after July's OSL win in August 2008, Savior has actually played at a higher level overall than Nada or July.
Savior had never lost a non zvz bo5 from his debut in 2003 until he lost to Bisu in 2007, then suddenly he loses nearly every best of 5 he participates in. After losing 3:0 to Bisu,
he then proceeds to lose to Nada 3:1 who Savior had just beat 3:1 on very unfavorable maps. After that he loses to Firebathero, Mind, Zero, and let's not forget the skins matches and PJ.
In fact after the free win Casy gave Savior the only best of 5 win Savior got was from Free and that was because he was actually doing very well still in zvp still rarely dropping a game because it seems it was the only thing he bothered to practice.
All this from the guy that never lost a non zvz bo5 in 4 years.
Savior's skill level in non vs protoss matchups after Bisu is equivalent to him stopping practice completely in zvt and zvz. I don't disagree that Savior was still the best zerg around until Jaedong showed up because savior's level was simply so high he didn't even have to practice and he could hit the ro8 from where he'd been. And I don't put GGPlay higher cause he was gone as soon as he came. Gorush got crushed by Bisu anyway and no other zerg did anything until Jaedong.
Thanks for the translation. I can't say there is a lot of "meat" there, but it is nice to hear he wants to play just for the "love of the game." It's also funny that he said he is "not the type that practices a lot."
On September 17 2009 20:07 writer22816 wrote: Savior won't even qualify for either leagues. We going to to see something akin to Magma's ultimate trash talk.
Magma: the six dragons are actually six acorns lol
then he loses to much, MUCH in a bo3 with TEARS OF THE MOON as one of the maps. Then he retires.
yeah, too bad Savior stomped Bisu when he and Magma were in the same MSL group.
and anyways, Magma was a player never known for anything other than a mouth and mediocrity, while Savior...
The thing about Savior that many people seem to miss is that when he was good most people didn't like him. People dressed him up like hitler, only watched games in hopes that he'd lose, and made threads seriously discussing whether or not Savior's dominance was good for Starcraft. People felt this way up till the moment he won his first OSL and finally after his entire career gave him a little bit of credit standing there after having defeated the most accomplished player of all time. Then right after his greatest moment he loses 3:0 to what would become the best Protoss player of all time. At this point Savior had two options: 1) Play his ass off so he could likely become like Nada was after Nada had won OSL/MSLx3 and got to the finals over and over only to lose to Iloveoov. 2) Say fuck it to the majority of people that hated him for being that good, get some hookers, and walk out on the majority of sc fans that couldn't even appreciate him for being that good. In Starcraft for one moment we saw real perfection and we threw it away because perfect wasn't good enough for us. So I'm not bothered when Savior picked the second option omninmo. Because maybe when he left like he did we all realized we didn't deserve him.
Very nice wrap-up.. sAviOr at his peak was OMG.. crazy how people praise jaedong as being so good.. when sAviOr according to the fans was "too good".
Which is why sAviOr will always be the most feared Zerg of BW
As for the comeback.. Mental attitude plays huge role in starcraft which is what alot of these fucking chobos don't understand. Anyone at a remotely high level can back me.. you can walk away from the game for months or even years. Pick it up again and the old shit is still there if a bit rusty.. take Ret for example. When you spend so much of your life doing soemthing it does not.. I'll repeat to ram into your heads.. DOES NOT fade away that easily.
People are talking shit about "oh savior doesnt even practice alot" in a such negative vibe. When to me thats fucking good thing. Realize that sAviOr was beating A-CLASS progamers (maybe not the best but A-Class level.. when he is hardly gaming and feeling unconfident in his starcraft play? That alone should say damn this guy is good.
Now.. I'm not even a sAviOr fan it just pisses me off that people would treat him so badly. Same with [NC]..YellOw people trash him likes he's a fucking joke. But I got enough common sense to realize how great sAviOr is/was.. and denying that would put you on the level of some fucking skilless newbie who claims IdrA blows.. When you aint gonna see even one BW player over the rank of C caught dead saying such shit.
sAviOr is one of the most inventive and strategical players BW has ever witnessed. and for above reasons it is defiantly possible sAviOr could make some kind of return.. and to deny that is the most foolish thing you could say.
On September 17 2009 20:23 ForSC2 wrote:The thing about Savior that many people seem to miss is that when he was good most people didn't like him. People dressed him up like hitler, only watched games in hopes that he'd lose, and made threads seriously discussing whether or not Savior's dominance was good for Starcraft. People felt this way up till the moment he won his first OSL and finally after his entire career gave him a little bit of credit standing there after having defeated the most accomplished player of all time. Then right after his greatest moment he loses 3:0 to what would become the best Protoss player of all time. At this point Savior had two options: 1) Play his ass off so he could likely become like Nada was after Nada had won OSL/MSLx3 and got to the finals over and over only to lose to Iloveoov. 2) Say fuck it to the majority of people that hated him for being that good, get some hookers, and walk out on the majority of sc fans that couldn't even appreciate him for being that good. In Starcraft for one moment we saw real perfection and we threw it away because perfect wasn't good enough for us. So I'm not bothered when Savior picked the second option omninmo. Because maybe when he left like he did we all realized we didn't deserve him.
You pretty much said everything that needs to be said right here. Thread can be closed now.
He's making a big statement as always, and he always ends up letting all of us down . If savior doesnt pass the prelims, I dont think I can believe in him that much anymore.
Go Ma Jae-Yoon! Also a rumor of the Emperor making a huge comeback. But the reality is that these legends of old will be facing a leaner, meaner lineup made of JD, FLash, Bisu, Effort, Fantasy, and every other pro gamer looking to go out with a boom.
The thing about Savior that many people seem to miss is that when he was good most people didn't like him. People dressed him up like hitler, only watched games in hopes that he'd lose, and made threads seriously discussing whether or not Savior's dominance was good for Starcraft. People felt this way up till the moment he won his first OSL and finally after his entire career gave him a little bit of credit standing there after having defeated the most accomplished player of all time. Then right after his greatest moment he loses 3:0 to what would become the best Protoss player of all time. At this point Savior had two options: 1) Play his ass off so he could likely become like Nada was after Nada had won OSL/MSLx3 and got to the finals over and over only to lose to Iloveoov. 2) Say fuck it to the majority of people that hated him for being that good, get some hookers, and walk out on the majority of sc fans that couldn't even appreciate him for being that good. In Starcraft for one moment we saw real perfection and we threw it away because perfect wasn't good enough for us. So I'm not bothered when Savior picked the second option omninmo. Because maybe when he left like he did we all realized we didn't deserve him.
On September 17 2009 20:23 ForSC2 wrote:The thing about Savior that many people seem to miss is that when he was good most people didn't like him. People dressed him up like hitler, only watched games in hopes that he'd lose, and made threads seriously discussing whether or not Savior's dominance was good for Starcraft. People felt this way up till the moment he won his first OSL and finally after his entire career gave him a little bit of credit standing there after having defeated the most accomplished player of all time. Then right after his greatest moment he loses 3:0 to what would become the best Protoss player of all time. At this point Savior had two options: 1) Play his ass off so he could likely become like Nada was after Nada had won OSL/MSLx3 and got to the finals over and over only to lose to Iloveoov. 2) Say fuck it to the majority of people that hated him for being that good, get some hookers, and walk out on the majority of sc fans that couldn't even appreciate him for being that good. In Starcraft for one moment we saw real perfection and we threw it away because perfect wasn't good enough for us. So I'm not bothered when Savior picked the second option omninmo. Because maybe when he left like he did we all realized we didn't deserve him.
You pretty much said everything that needs to be said right here. Thread can be closed now.
Really? I've watched sports for over 10 years now. And when a player I don't like retires, I've never thought, "Oh, I'm going to miss him. I can't believe he left and I never knew his greatness."
On September 17 2009 20:23 ForSC2 wrote:The thing about Savior that many people seem to miss is that when he was good most people didn't like him. People dressed him up like hitler, only watched games in hopes that he'd lose, and made threads seriously discussing whether or not Savior's dominance was good for Starcraft. People felt this way up till the moment he won his first OSL and finally after his entire career gave him a little bit of credit standing there after having defeated the most accomplished player of all time. Then right after his greatest moment he loses 3:0 to what would become the best Protoss player of all time. At this point Savior had two options: 1) Play his ass off so he could likely become like Nada was after Nada had won OSL/MSLx3 and got to the finals over and over only to lose to Iloveoov. 2) Say fuck it to the majority of people that hated him for being that good, get some hookers, and walk out on the majority of sc fans that couldn't even appreciate him for being that good. In Starcraft for one moment we saw real perfection and we threw it away because perfect wasn't good enough for us. So I'm not bothered when Savior picked the second option omninmo. Because maybe when he left like he did we all realized we didn't deserve him.
You pretty much said everything that needs to be said right here. Thread can be closed now.
Really? I've watched sports for over 10 years now. And when a player I don't like retires, I've never thought, "Oh, I'm going to miss him. I can't believe he left and I never knew his greatness."
Usually, I just think "Fuck yeah!"
Now multiply you by the majority of the Starcraft community at the time and why the fuck would anyone want to keep playing. I applaud Savior for making the right choice.
On September 17 2009 20:23 ForSC2 wrote:The thing about Savior that many people seem to miss is that when he was good most people didn't like him. People dressed him up like hitler, only watched games in hopes that he'd lose, and made threads seriously discussing whether or not Savior's dominance was good for Starcraft. People felt this way up till the moment he won his first OSL and finally after his entire career gave him a little bit of credit standing there after having defeated the most accomplished player of all time. Then right after his greatest moment he loses 3:0 to what would become the best Protoss player of all time. At this point Savior had two options: 1) Play his ass off so he could likely become like Nada was after Nada had won OSL/MSLx3 and got to the finals over and over only to lose to Iloveoov. 2) Say fuck it to the majority of people that hated him for being that good, get some hookers, and walk out on the majority of sc fans that couldn't even appreciate him for being that good. In Starcraft for one moment we saw real perfection and we threw it away because perfect wasn't good enough for us. So I'm not bothered when Savior picked the second option omninmo. Because maybe when he left like he did we all realized we didn't deserve him.
You pretty much said everything that needs to be said right here. Thread can be closed now.
Really? I've watched sports for over 10 years now. And when a player I don't like retires, I've never thought, "Oh, I'm going to miss him. I can't believe he left and I never knew his greatness."
Usually, I just think "Fuck yeah!"
Now multiply you by the majority of the Starcraft community at the time and why the fuck would anyone want to keep playing. I applaud Savior for making the right choice.
Not sure what you're implying. I just stated my stance that not everyone thinks Savior is God like his fanboys, so it's not like haters will somehow start loving him if he leaves the game. That's just such an absurd assumption.
Btw, I'm not actually a Savior hater. I did dislike him back when he was beating the crap out of my boy Stork left and right. But that was a long time ago. Right now, I don't feel either way about him.
On September 17 2009 20:07 writer22816 wrote: Savior won't even qualify for either leagues. We going to to see something akin to Magma's ultimate trash talk.
Magma: the six dragons are actually six acorns lol
then he loses to much, MUCH in a bo3 with TEARS OF THE MOON as one of the maps. Then he retires.
yeah, too bad Savior stomped Bisu when he and Magma were in the same MSL group.
Neo Harmony. You honestly think savior has a chance against bisu nowadays?
I would love to see MJY get back into shape...I'm not going to count on it happening but he DID have some big wins last year. Waking up to find that he beat Bisu on Neo Harmony in the MSL was probably one of the coolest feelings I've ever had during my time following the pro scene.
On September 17 2009 20:07 writer22816 wrote: Savior won't even qualify for either leagues. We going to to see something akin to Magma's ultimate trash talk.
Magma: the six dragons are actually six acorns lol
then he loses to much, MUCH in a bo3 with TEARS OF THE MOON as one of the maps. Then he retires.
yeah, too bad Savior stomped Bisu when he and Magma were in the same MSL group.
Neo Harmony. You honestly think savior has a chance against bisu nowadays?
On September 17 2009 20:07 writer22816 wrote: Savior won't even qualify for either leagues. We going to to see something akin to Magma's ultimate trash talk.
Magma: the six dragons are actually six acorns lol
then he loses to much, MUCH in a bo3 with TEARS OF THE MOON as one of the maps. Then he retires.
yeah, too bad Savior stomped Bisu when he and Magma were in the same MSL group.
Neo Harmony. You honestly think savior has a chance against bisu nowadays?
On September 18 2009 13:53 writer22816 wrote: The All-stars is a nothing tournament.
Savior still beat bisu, and it's not like bisu didn't try so it's still a win over one of the best tosses in the world. So that's gotta count for something, right?
Man Savior's done enough in Starcraft. Being the most accomplished player for a year and totally dominating everyone else is no mean feat. I'm still waiting for him to come back.
One day we will get to see Calm in a Bo5 that isn't ZvZ...
Until then I don't think Calm has really a better chance to Bo5 over Bisu or Flash or Fantasy ehh...
Well, then, I don't suppose this is the thread for logic.
You know, I always thought you were a rabid Savior fan, but that might be because I tend to lump all Zerg fans into one huge group.
Kinda like how everyone thinks all Protoss fans like Bisu, or all KHAN fans like FBH.
In agreement with your point, considering that Canata beat Savior in the Avalon MSL RO32, I would say that it is far less likely that Savior can beat the likes of Jaedong, Flash, and Bisu compared to a player like Calm.
On September 17 2009 20:23 ForSC2 wrote:The thing about Savior that many people seem to miss is that when he was good most people didn't like him. People dressed him up like hitler, only watched games in hopes that he'd lose, and made threads seriously discussing whether or not Savior's dominance was good for Starcraft. People felt this way up till the moment he won his first OSL and finally after his entire career gave him a little bit of credit standing there after having defeated the most accomplished player of all time. Then right after his greatest moment he loses 3:0 to what would become the best Protoss player of all time. At this point Savior had two options: 1) Play his ass off so he could likely become like Nada was after Nada had won OSL/MSLx3 and got to the finals over and over only to lose to Iloveoov. 2) Say fuck it to the majority of people that hated him for being that good, get some hookers, and walk out on the majority of sc fans that couldn't even appreciate him for being that good. In Starcraft for one moment we saw real perfection and we threw it away because perfect wasn't good enough for us. So I'm not bothered when Savior picked the second option omninmo. Because maybe when he left like he did we all realized we didn't deserve him.
You pretty much said everything that needs to be said right here. Thread can be closed now.
Really? I've watched sports for over 10 years now. And when a player I don't like retires, I've never thought, "Oh, I'm going to miss him. I can't believe he left and I never knew his greatness."
Usually, I just think "Fuck yeah!"
Now multiply you by the majority of the Starcraft community at the time and why the fuck would anyone want to keep playing. I applaud Savior for making the right choice.
Not sure what you're implying. I just stated my stance that not everyone thinks Savior is God like his fanboys, so it's not like haters will somehow start loving him if he leaves the game. That's just such an absurd assumption.
Btw, I'm not actually a Savior hater. I did dislike him back when he was beating the crap out of my boy Stork left and right. But that was a long time ago. Right now, I don't feel either way about him.
When Savior finally started losing, that's when he actually got most of his fans. He left the game the day Bisu beat him. Many people that professed these exaggerated displays of hatred toward him (calling him hitler, lucky, etc.) started loving him, and even die hard haters went to neutral. Now the new generation of Savior haters spring up because of fanboys like me. Imagine how a Reach fan would feel if someone called Reach in Daum OSL a spineless girl. Those people never learned why Reach is the hero.
Throughout his career most everyone treated him like shit because his era signified the end of the old veterans who mostly disappeared/retired soon after Savior was 3:0ed: Reach, Boxer, Iloveoov, Nada, Nal_Ra, etc. They gave him the nickname Ma Jae Woon meaning luck because people couldn't accept the fact that this guy was better than their favorites until he 3:0'ed boxer. After that people give him shit about playing too well, not showing enough emotion, being too perfect what the fuck kind of criticisms are these on a person's play. It's like if people can't find anything to bitch about someone they invent something to piss themselves off. Not to mention the fact that they dressed him up like Hitler and made him into the perpetual bad guy what the fuck is wrong with these people. Then if that isn't enough even the map makers turn against him with maps so bad Savior even believes he could beat a zerg player with terran on these maps, and despite it all Savior makes it to 6 consecutive finals in a row with a ridiculous schedule vs his peers and attempts to do what only Nada had done previously which was win the OSL and MSL in the same season. He fights his way through the scariest terran players the traditional bane of zerg with Midas in the ro16, Iris who's play was even better than Midas in the ro4, and the most accomplished player of all time and the only player that was able to do what Savior was attempting this run (Win OSL + MSL same season) Nada.
At that point even if you hated him there was no way to concede that he wasn't obviously the best player in the game right then. He beat all the top players on the scene. He had a rape record vs the previous Bonjwa Iloveoov. He was tested vs all the top terrans and reached the finals in both leagues, already winning the difficult part in beating the most accomplished player in the game in the OSL finals. Now as people saw it all he had left was the MSL finals against this unknown newcomer everyone expected Savior to destroy and everyone saw the OSL and MSL finals as good as his as soon as Nada was beaten.
It's like fighting through this difficult game, beating every challenge the game can throw at you, even when the game becomes rigged vs you and finally reaching a point where you can sit back and say yeah you know what this guy took every challenge you could think of and threw it right back in your face because Savior's that god damn good. No matter how bad you guys tried to rig this game, he still beat every possible challenge, he won at Starcraft.
And then what? He fights Bisu who has found this secret gimmick that guaranteed his victory vs zerg as no player had been accustomed to the build and no zerg in any era would have been able to counter it if they had not actively seen and fought against this style before.
So what now? After one week as the undisputed best now all those people that rigged those maps, called him Hitler, treated him like an emotionless robot less than a human being would soon be breathing down his neck again. If they could think of all that shit to say while his play literally had no holes and was perfect could you imagine what these douchebags could spit at him if he actually lost? So yeah, to the haters fuck you. If I ever met Savior I'd high five him for what he did. Because he was good people treated him like less than a human being, then after showing some emotion it was clear as day the only ones that lacked humanity was themselves.
I didn't get to follow Starcraft progaming until 2007, so I wasn't there to see why Reach is considered the Hero, why Yellow is considered The Storm Zerg, why Xellos is perfect, and why Boxer is the emperor. That's why I greatly value anyone that can tell me about those times and those player's struggles. I could never get into watching player's games, but I like the stories and effort these player's are capable of putting into a single moment. Despite that I am grateful for being able to follow it when I did because even if I couldn't know about the rest, it let me follow one player and be able to know why Savior is The Maestro.
One day we will get to see Calm in a Bo5 that isn't ZvZ...
Until then I don't think Calm has really a better chance to Bo5 over Bisu or Flash or Fantasy ehh...
Well, then, I don't suppose this is the thread for logic.
You know, I always thought you were a rabid Savior fan, but that might be because I tend to lump all Zerg fans into one huge group.
Kinda like how everyone thinks all Protoss fans like Bisu, or all KHAN fans like FBH.
In agreement with your point, considering that Canata beat Savior in the Avalon MSL RO32, I would say that it is far less likely that Savior can beat the likes of Jaedong, Flash, and Bisu compared to a player like Calm.
I am only a fan of ppl on Oz and Stork. I do know what you're talking about, I always generalize people with protoss/terran/SKT/ACE icons as Bisu fans. Maybe I'm paranoid, maybe he has a lot of fans.
One day we will get to see Calm in a Bo5 that isn't ZvZ...
Until then I don't think Calm has really a better chance to Bo5 over Bisu or Flash or Fantasy ehh...
Well, then, I don't suppose this is the thread for logic.
You know, I always thought you were a rabid Savior fan, but that might be because I tend to lump all Zerg fans into one huge group.
Kinda like how everyone thinks all Protoss fans like Bisu, or all KHAN fans like FBH.
In agreement with your point, considering that Canata beat Savior in the Avalon MSL RO32, I would say that it is far less likely that Savior can beat the likes of Jaedong, Flash, and Bisu compared to a player like Calm.
I am only a fan of ppl on Oz and Stork. I do know what you're talking about, I always generalize people with protoss/terran/SKT/ACE icons as Bisu fans. Maybe I'm paranoid, maybe he has a lot of fans.
Look at how much of a difference in fanvotes Bisu has in comparison with any other player of any race. If you like Protoss theres a good chance you like Bisu.
One day we will get to see Calm in a Bo5 that isn't ZvZ...
Until then I don't think Calm has really a better chance to Bo5 over Bisu or Flash or Fantasy ehh...
Well, then, I don't suppose this is the thread for logic.
You know, I always thought you were a rabid Savior fan, but that might be because I tend to lump all Zerg fans into one huge group.
Kinda like how everyone thinks all Protoss fans like Bisu, or all KHAN fans like FBH.
In agreement with your point, considering that Canata beat Savior in the Avalon MSL RO32, I would say that it is far less likely that Savior can beat the likes of Jaedong, Flash, and Bisu compared to a player like Calm.
I am only a fan of ppl on Oz and Stork. I do know what you're talking about, I always generalize people with protoss/terran/SKT/ACE icons as Bisu fans. Maybe I'm paranoid, maybe he has a lot of fans.
I have a lot more respect for team fans than I do for race fans, to be honest.
There's a certain poster on TL who calls himself a CJ fan, even though he hates the Protosses on CJ and claims to be as big a Jaedong fan as he is a CJ fan. In reality, he is just a Zerg fanboy who really really likes Savior and absolutely despises Protoss no matter what team they are on.
For me it seems rather shallow to have an opinion on a player just based on the race they play. I think a large portion of the dislike from Bisu comes not just from his attitude, but from the fact that he plays Protoss.
I mean, FBH, magma[S.G.], and go.go have done way more blatantly BM things and they get much less flack for what they do. Maybe it's because they haven't accomplished as much, but I am more of the opinion that it's because they don't play Protoss.
I do know how you feel about being a Stork only fan. I used to think I was a KHAN fan, but then I realized I just like Stork for his hard-working-yet-still-underdog perception that gave him nothing but silver medals until Incruit OSL. He may not have an interesting dramatic story like GGPlay or Nada, but I still have to hand it to him for being persistent no matter how much silver he got.
I think, with the return of Boxer, you can't assume all SKT fans are Bisu fans. There are SKT fans out there who dislike Bisu, but still are SKT fans because of Boxer and iloveoov .
What exactly in this interview is diffrent from every other player saying:
"I will overcome my slump/burn out and train hard again so i can win, i promise?"
Seriously, you could basically copy paste most of that stuff from every interview with every old player... At least the underlying message... Well... Actually you can do that with 90% of the Progamer interviews...
On September 18 2009 17:02 Velr wrote: What exactly in this interview is diffrent from every other player saying:
"I will overcome my slump/burn out and train hard again so i can win, i promise?"
Seriously, you could basically copy paste most of that stuff from every interview with every old player... At least the underlying message... Well... Actually you can do that with 90% of the Progamer interviews...
Yes but this is the fucking Maestro himself. I BELIEVE
It seems like an interview he might have requested. Most people say they will overcome this or that after a win or during an interview where they don't expect the question, but savior seems to have addressed an issue he said in previous interviews he has had problems with, and said he is finally over it. Even when he was in the Lost Saga MSL, he said "i will need to make the round of 4 to shed the slumping image", that sounds different from this interview, he sounds like he's forcing himself to do something. Now he is just like "i never care if i lose, i'll enjoy this game. i'm going to win a starleague".
Thanks for the translation, and it's always fun to hear what progamers are thinking (even though it's always the same "thanks fans/I'll try harder" comments)...
...But it seems like we get a reminder every 6 months that Savior is going to magically come back to form. It didn't work after he said he would do better when he lost to Bisu, it didn't work after he dropped out of both leagues and failed to qualify, and it didn't work after his infamous Blizzcon statement.
I want to see Savior win, not make excuses. Him answering questions like "what's wrong?" and "what are you going to do differently next season" won't change anything. Nobody asked July to win the golden mouse, he just went out and got it. Savior should do the same. Stop telling everybody why you're underachieving. We all know it's psychological. We get it. Now go and start winning.
We'll get another interview that checks up on Savior's status in another couple of months. Hopefully by then, he won't have to say anything except point to his win/loss record.
It's very hard for him to prove his motivation has changed just by saying so. I guess we will see in the future if he gets his "spark" back and start performing or if this is just another stunt to keep his fans interested..
On September 18 2009 17:02 Velr wrote: What exactly in this interview is diffrent from every other player saying:
"I will overcome my slump/burn out and train hard again so i can win, i promise?"
Seriously, you could basically copy paste most of that stuff from every interview with every old player... At least the underlying message... Well... Actually you can do that with 90% of the Progamer interviews...
Yep, player's don't ask to be interviewed anyway so if nothing changed since the last time what more are they gonna say.
On September 17 2009 20:07 writer22816 wrote: Savior won't even qualify for either leagues. We going to to see something akin to Magma's ultimate trash talk.
Magma: the six dragons are actually six acorns lol
then he loses to much, MUCH in a bo3 with TEARS OF THE MOON as one of the maps. Then he retires.
yeah, too bad Savior stomped Bisu when he and Magma were in the same MSL group.
Neo Harmony. You honestly think savior has a chance against bisu nowadays?
For sure he has, His zvp is still good.
I know, whenever I say that people laugh at me lol. And yeah.. sAviOr destroyed him on Tau Cross too..
On September 17 2009 20:07 writer22816 wrote: Savior won't even qualify for either leagues. We going to to see something akin to Magma's ultimate trash talk.
Magma: the six dragons are actually six acorns lol
then he loses to much, MUCH in a bo3 with TEARS OF THE MOON as one of the maps. Then he retires.
yeah, too bad Savior stomped Bisu when he and Magma were in the same MSL group.
Neo Harmony. You honestly think savior has a chance against bisu nowadays?
Bisu beat Jaedong on Neo Harmony, does this mean JD sucks?
Savior will never be the favorite to win a starleague again, I can say that right now. Even though he might win his personal struggle and become the best player he has the ability to be, some people are just more talented and more driven to win than he is. Jaedong is one of those, Bisu another, Flash another. I wish him well in his own personal struggles, but after overcoming his own inner demons he still has world-class opponents to beat, opponents every bit as talented as he is and far more skilled at the same time. I don't think he has it in him.
On September 17 2009 20:07 writer22816 wrote: Savior won't even qualify for either leagues. We going to to see something akin to Magma's ultimate trash talk.
Magma: the six dragons are actually six acorns lol
then he loses to much, MUCH in a bo3 with TEARS OF THE MOON as one of the maps. Then he retires.
yeah, too bad Savior stomped Bisu when he and Magma were in the same MSL group.
Neo Harmony. You honestly think savior has a chance against bisu nowadays?
For sure he has, His zvp is still good.
I know, whenever I say that people laugh at me lol. And yeah.. sAviOr destroyed him on Tau Cross too..
yeah I agree Saviors ZvP is still absolutely amazing. Unfortunately it seems like everytime I see him play he plays his shitty ZvZ.
Zerg V Protoss all stars anyone? that wasn't too long ago and he beat Stork and Bisu quite nicely.
As much as I'd like to believe, I think savior only has a chance to win a starleague if he meets lots of protoss, a few Terrans and 0 Zerg.
yeah, it really sucks for savior because progaming is dominated by up and coming zergs who are all great in their own aspects. Jaedong, Calm, Effort, Yarnc, Kwanro, type b, etc are all ro4 material :|
Guys have you seen the savior pic in the nada's body thread? the guy has better stuff to do like get ripped and party hes not a kid anymore. hes already established himself as a "B" what else do you want?
On September 17 2009 20:07 writer22816 wrote: Savior won't even qualify for either leagues. We going to to see something akin to Magma's ultimate trash talk.
Magma: the six dragons are actually six acorns lol
then he loses to much, MUCH in a bo3 with TEARS OF THE MOON as one of the maps. Then he retires.
yeah, too bad Savior stomped Bisu when he and Magma were in the same MSL group.
Neo Harmony. You honestly think savior has a chance against bisu nowadays?
For sure he has, His zvp is still good.
I know, whenever I say that people laugh at me lol. And yeah.. sAviOr destroyed him on Tau Cross too..
yeah I agree Saviors ZvP is still absolutely amazing. Unfortunately it seems like everytime I see him play he plays his shitty ZvZ.
Zerg V Protoss all stars anyone? that wasn't too long ago and he beat Stork and Bisu quite nicely.
As much as I'd like to believe, I think savior only has a chance to win a starleague if he meets lots of protoss, a few Terrans and 0 Zerg.
yeah man, i totally agree. Even if sAviOr doesnt win starleague, we should see him play some proleague.. Problem with proleague is that its usually mirror matchups. -_-
On September 20 2009 16:38 Liquid_Turbo wrote: Basically, for MJY to win a starleague, he's going to play better than Jaedong. Can't really see that happening.
Basically, for Bisu to win a starleague, he's going to play better than Jaedong. Can't really see that happening.
On September 20 2009 16:38 Liquid_Turbo wrote: Basically, for MJY to win a starleague, he's going to play better than Jaedong. Can't really see that happening.
Basically, for Bisu to win a starleague, he's going to play better than Jaedong. Can't really see that happening.
Basically, for X to win anything of importance, he's going to play better than Jaedong. Can't really see that happening.
On September 17 2009 20:23 ForSC2 wrote:The thing about Savior that many people seem to miss is that when he was good most people didn't like him. People dressed him up like hitler, only watched games in hopes that he'd lose, and made threads seriously discussing whether or not Savior's dominance was good for Starcraft. People felt this way up till the moment he won his first OSL and finally after his entire career gave him a little bit of credit standing there after having defeated the most accomplished player of all time. Then right after his greatest moment he loses 3:0 to what would become the best Protoss player of all time. At this point Savior had two options: 1) Play his ass off so he could likely become like Nada was after Nada had won OSL/MSLx3 and got to the finals over and over only to lose to Iloveoov. 2) Say fuck it to the majority of people that hated him for being that good, get some hookers, and walk out on the majority of sc fans that couldn't even appreciate him for being that good. In Starcraft for one moment we saw real perfection and we threw it away because perfect wasn't good enough for us. So I'm not bothered when Savior picked the second option omninmo. Because maybe when he left like he did we all realized we didn't deserve him.
You pretty much said everything that needs to be said right here. Thread can be closed now.
Really? I've watched sports for over 10 years now. And when a player I don't like retires, I've never thought, "Oh, I'm going to miss him. I can't believe he left and I never knew his greatness."
Usually, I just think "Fuck yeah!"
Now multiply you by the majority of the Starcraft community at the time and why the fuck would anyone want to keep playing. I applaud Savior for making the right choice.
they keep playing for money and competition.
You dont play for the fans lol. The fans are nice when you have them but true greatness isnt predicated on the fans liking you or not.
On September 17 2009 20:23 ForSC2 wrote:The thing about Savior that many people seem to miss is that when he was good most people didn't like him. People dressed him up like hitler, only watched games in hopes that he'd lose, and made threads seriously discussing whether or not Savior's dominance was good for Starcraft. People felt this way up till the moment he won his first OSL and finally after his entire career gave him a little bit of credit standing there after having defeated the most accomplished player of all time. Then right after his greatest moment he loses 3:0 to what would become the best Protoss player of all time. At this point Savior had two options: 1) Play his ass off so he could likely become like Nada was after Nada had won OSL/MSLx3 and got to the finals over and over only to lose to Iloveoov. 2) Say fuck it to the majority of people that hated him for being that good, get some hookers, and walk out on the majority of sc fans that couldn't even appreciate him for being that good. In Starcraft for one moment we saw real perfection and we threw it away because perfect wasn't good enough for us. So I'm not bothered when Savior picked the second option omninmo. Because maybe when he left like he did we all realized we didn't deserve him.
You pretty much said everything that needs to be said right here. Thread can be closed now.
Really? I've watched sports for over 10 years now. And when a player I don't like retires, I've never thought, "Oh, I'm going to miss him. I can't believe he left and I never knew his greatness."
Usually, I just think "Fuck yeah!"
Now multiply you by the majority of the Starcraft community at the time and why the fuck would anyone want to keep playing. I applaud Savior for making the right choice.
they keep playing for money and competition.
You dont play for the fans lol. The fans are nice when you have them but true greatness isnt predicated on the fans liking you or not.
but Savior already won everything that was worth winning and was miles above everyone else (except Bisu). He didn't need to keep playing for money and competition.
On September 17 2009 20:23 ForSC2 wrote:The thing about Savior that many people seem to miss is that when he was good most people didn't like him. People dressed him up like hitler, only watched games in hopes that he'd lose, and made threads seriously discussing whether or not Savior's dominance was good for Starcraft. People felt this way up till the moment he won his first OSL and finally after his entire career gave him a little bit of credit standing there after having defeated the most accomplished player of all time. Then right after his greatest moment he loses 3:0 to what would become the best Protoss player of all time. At this point Savior had two options: 1) Play his ass off so he could likely become like Nada was after Nada had won OSL/MSLx3 and got to the finals over and over only to lose to Iloveoov. 2) Say fuck it to the majority of people that hated him for being that good, get some hookers, and walk out on the majority of sc fans that couldn't even appreciate him for being that good. In Starcraft for one moment we saw real perfection and we threw it away because perfect wasn't good enough for us. So I'm not bothered when Savior picked the second option omninmo. Because maybe when he left like he did we all realized we didn't deserve him.
You pretty much said everything that needs to be said right here. Thread can be closed now.
Really? I've watched sports for over 10 years now. And when a player I don't like retires, I've never thought, "Oh, I'm going to miss him. I can't believe he left and I never knew his greatness."
Usually, I just think "Fuck yeah!"
Now multiply you by the majority of the Starcraft community at the time and why the fuck would anyone want to keep playing. I applaud Savior for making the right choice.
they keep playing for money and competition.
You dont play for the fans lol. The fans are nice when you have them but true greatness isnt predicated on the fans liking you or not.
but Savior already won everything that was worth winning and was miles above everyone else (except Bisu). He didn't need to keep playing for money and competition.
yes he did he needs to keep earning his contracts
You dont win an OSL once and slack off if you wanna be the GOAT
On September 17 2009 20:23 ForSC2 wrote:The thing about Savior that many people seem to miss is that when he was good most people didn't like him. People dressed him up like hitler, only watched games in hopes that he'd lose, and made threads seriously discussing whether or not Savior's dominance was good for Starcraft. People felt this way up till the moment he won his first OSL and finally after his entire career gave him a little bit of credit standing there after having defeated the most accomplished player of all time. Then right after his greatest moment he loses 3:0 to what would become the best Protoss player of all time. At this point Savior had two options: 1) Play his ass off so he could likely become like Nada was after Nada had won OSL/MSLx3 and got to the finals over and over only to lose to Iloveoov. 2) Say fuck it to the majority of people that hated him for being that good, get some hookers, and walk out on the majority of sc fans that couldn't even appreciate him for being that good. In Starcraft for one moment we saw real perfection and we threw it away because perfect wasn't good enough for us. So I'm not bothered when Savior picked the second option omninmo. Because maybe when he left like he did we all realized we didn't deserve him.
You pretty much said everything that needs to be said right here. Thread can be closed now.
Really? I've watched sports for over 10 years now. And when a player I don't like retires, I've never thought, "Oh, I'm going to miss him. I can't believe he left and I never knew his greatness."
Usually, I just think "Fuck yeah!"
Now multiply you by the majority of the Starcraft community at the time and why the fuck would anyone want to keep playing. I applaud Savior for making the right choice.
they keep playing for money and competition.
You dont play for the fans lol. The fans are nice when you have them but true greatness isnt predicated on the fans liking you or not.
Is it not because of the fans that I am able to continue gaming? If there were no fans, who would be watching my games? There would be no reason to broadcast matches that were not being watched. If I were to exaggerate it a bit, the fans would be the reason for my existence.
During the 24 hours that I remained awake, I spent the entire time gaming. I did not and could not think of anything else. No one can play the games for me. This was entirely my task, and was something I had to do alone. No matter who I faced, I did not want to lose, and more than anything else I did not want to disappoint the fans that looked forward to my matches. And so I practiced even harder. What happened around me, how my friends were doing – I had no time to spare for anything but games. In that way, I made much of that one minute, one second practicing. And little by little, I was becoming a fool for victory.
When my prepared strategy brilliantly catches the opponent unprepared, there is a sense of achievement that I feel, but it is the cheers from my fans that fill my heart. The person playing the game should not be the only one that is happy. The game must be played so that the person watching the game can enter the game together. That is the true significance of a strategy simulation game, and the way to gather fans at the gaming arena and in front of the television. If the fans could watch me playing and they each could have their individual ideas, then I could not be happier.
I sometimes used to live without realizing that my fans existed. When the game was too difficult, when I showed myself losing, I tried hard to turn away from my fans. I scolded my foolish self. But my fans did not scold me. Instead of scolding me and asking what was wrong with me, they encouraged me, telling me to go for it. When I did well, they were not only happy for me, but when I was tired and worn out, they consoled me. The fans became my support. When my mind was scattered and I would shake, they helped me to stand firm. Because I have these fans, I am such a happy idiot.
One of the important reasons I play is to present an exciting match to the fans. That was why I became more motivated when my fans came in person at the gaming arena and encouraged me with cheer posters. ‘I’m not fighting by myself. I am only representing everyone when I go up on the stage.’ At times I think that I am playing the game in place of my fans. I am thankful for the times when I had arrived at the arena without having eaten anything, only to find that my fans had prepared a lunch box for me. I am also thankful of their encouragements when I lost, and their cheers when I won. There were, of course, times when the fans felt like a burden to me. The expectations of the fans are so high, and when the thoughts come to mind that I cannot fulfill those expectations, I was at times afraid of facing my fans.
The entire book Crazy as Me is about how dedicated Boxer is to the people that love him.
You can read about it more and it is clearly one of the main reasons Boxer was able to continue for so long. Look at Nada too, he stayed in Starcraft for 8 years when he tell us all the fun has been sucked out of it and he plays so he can make his fans happy. (I don't want to search through threads to find the source. It's in an interview where they call him Progamer Lee.)
There comes a moment when a progamer must play, even when he does not want to. If I liked games just as a hobby, I would not have been able to endure the life of a progamer. Gaming is everything to a professional gamer. It is a hobby as well as a duty. Gaming for a progamer is like laboring. When they play, they must play games, and when they rest, they must play games. And if they are a part of a team, they cannot freely go outside. They must be prepared to give up a certain portion of their personal life. There were many times when I wanted to watch movies, go out for a drink, and spend a comfortable time like other friends of my age. I am a person too, and games are not all that is fun in the world.
It's very hard to get to a point where you'll give up things like going outside for yourself. I'd be surprised in Starcraft progaming to find someone with so much self interest and ego that they'd have the will to play only for themself for that long. Money is great and all, but people that aren't successful don't get as much as you'd think. So that 200k won you only get to keep around for your prime, while most players are getting paid like McDonalds money in an area that has the same or higher cost of living than America. Why do you think July was so pissed off? Why do you think Anytime retired so early in light of what we saw happen to Jaedong.
Iloveoov too was disliked during his prime. And given his accomplishments we would have expected him to stick around for far longer wrist injury or not. When things are going good players play very well. When things are going bad only some players can keep playing. These "great" players that stick around often have legions of fans because playing for self interest/ego does not seem to be the defining factor in a player that can stay around.
When asked for his happiest moment as a progamer, Iloveoov didn't cite any leagues or games he won. It was when he could finally buy his mom a house. That was his happiest moment as a progamer. Even a monster could play for someone.
If you want to be great you dont play for the fans. I mean I understand wanting to give them a show and entertain them. But you can do that while being great.
Look at Tiger Woods. Roger Federer. Michael Jordan.
They didnt play for the fans....the fans were nice and ya they may have given them a boost here and there but they play for themselves and the competition. The fans can remind you that you need to try your best but honestly you either have it or you dont and if you strictly depend on fans to motivate you you wont be great for all that long at anything you do.
On September 21 2009 08:02 Sadist wrote: If you want to be great you dont play for the fans. I mean I understand wanting to give them a show and entertain them. But you can do that while being great.
Look at Tiger Woods. Roger Federer. Michael Jordan.
They didnt play for the fans....the fans were nice and ya they may have given them a boost here and there but they play for themselves and the competition. The fans can remind you that you need to try your best but honestly you either have it or you dont and if you strictly depend on fans to motivate you you wont be great for all that long at anything you do.
Starcraft was a pioneering field that was seen as something akin to playtime for a homeless bum at one point. If those fans did not exist professional Starcraft would not have existed. If you're trying to build something from nothing do you think you can just play for yourself and be competitive without thought of whether or not people are going to want to watch this game?
Many Korean pros grew up being seen as nothing but Internet Cafe Bums.
On October 28 2007 05:45 pubbanana wrote: When the Emperor was hiding from his father so that he could play StarCraft, when the Storm Zerg was lying to his mother so that he could play games, when the Genius was sitting in a smoke filled PC room with his school friends, when the Hero was waiting in the cold to be able to sign up for a Big Game Hunters tournament ...
These players were Boxer, Yellow, Nada, Reach, etc.
On October 28 2007 05:45 pubbanana wrote: Six years ago, there was no value or fame associated with being called a progamer. Six years later, these four have made the title of "progamer" something that is truly admired and envied by many.
These kids grew up enduring the expectations and disappointments of their parents in regards to their being a player. Boxer's book "Crazy as Me" talks heavily on this subject.
In these cultures you are brought up and expected to be a respectful and dutiful son. There is a certain degree of "I owe this to my parents" because they raised you. How do you think Boxer's parents felt about him when everyone saw him as an internet cafe bum?
What if Boxer walked down this path with his parent's faith in him despite their disappointments and couldn't win a single game, how would he be able to face his parents again? Because he was in a pioneering field, he had to show them that even an internet café bum could do something respectable. And he had to be willing to work that much harder to make sure he could be someone his parents would be proud of.
When my parents heard how I wanted to make gaming as my profession, they trusted me and gave me permission, though they were not completely at ease. Would it be selfish if I said that this was when I ascertained the love of my parents? I wasn't one to cause too much trouble, but I didn't even live up to half of my parents’ expectations; yet they earnestly tried to understand me, saying that they would faithfully watch over me. They knew that no one else could live my life for me and that life was something one had to endure, no matter how difficult and lonely. All they wanted was for their son to live with a little less pain and trouble, and with an earnest heart they nagged at me. For these parents, I was determined to be a proud and respectful son.
When Boxer's parents tell him they don't agree with he's doing, but they trust him in this field they can't even understand you really think he's only going to be playing for himself and the competition?
And what about the fans who because of the sheer fact that they exist allow him to give something back to his parents that had faith in him?
This is a common theme in Starcraft Progaming. Do you remember when Xellos was crying onstage saying it was because of his mom he was here after all of those years of fighting over playing a game? Who else remembers when Nal_Ra said at Blizcon to his fans "Because you exist. We exist."
How about when Xellos made a commitment to stay with GO even without definite sponsorship was he doing that for himself? How about when players paid out of their own pocket to feed their team was that for themselves or to be competitive? How about when Nada stayed with Wemade/Pantech a bottom tier team when he was the best and most accomplished player?
All of these athletes in other sports (Tiger Woods, Roger Federer, Michael Jordan) could play very comfortably because their sports were established with huge salaries. Even if you fail at being a NBA Player, no one looks at playing basketball like it's a joke.
If your profession in society is seen as a joke, something not even considered a profession, you have to work that much harder for any respect in a field.
A top athlete might practice 6 hours a day, a top starcraft player might practice 16 hours a day. There's a lot of factors for this such as your body needing recovery time in order to repair etc. What this allows is most athletes to have a girlfriend, meet celebrities, and enjoy their life. Lebron James as possibly the best nba player right now is an avid video game fan, do you think any Samsung player in comparison has the time to be half decent at Vollyball?
I brought this up because there is a big difference in how much athletes from other sports and starcraft players have to give up for their profession. Which is why the comparison isn't very fair to me. Because when I look at this guy that can't even eat vs this guy that can't buy his 3rd mansion there is a huge difference in their priorities. If you had to live forever in a tiny room and gave up not only things like having friends and a girlfriend, but basic things like sunshine, food to eat, personal security, do you think most basketball players would be able to do that just to be able to say they're the best? Because they care that much about themselves and the competition?
GGplay: Sometimes I lost games due to hunger.
I look at progaming as a whole and from stories I read about players all I ever see is sacrifice, sacrifice, sacrifice. This and the influence of Korean sociocentric culture on Starcraft as well as interviews lead me to believe most players play for many people, not just themselves. Which is often their fans, their parents, the development of esports, and their team. (Why do you think it makes sense for Starcraft to be a team sport when games are all done individually?)
- Why do you think for players who fall down, getting back seems so hard ▲ Boxer: Because they aren't sacrificing enough. Like I said previously, top players know how to go back but they must know how to let go of all of life's pleasures and other stuff. --- But if you are suppose to sacrifice everything how can you live life properly? This is the hardest part. ▲ Savior: I agree the biggest problem is sacrificing. Even if you say you want to let go you can't. Then we think stuff like 'what if I sacrificed everything but I couldn't get results?'
"But if you are suppose to sacrifice everything how can you live life properly? This is the hardest part."
none of what you wrote has anything to do with playing for fans. In a sport where you need fans to survive sure you appreciate them and try to do the best to get them to come out with entertainment but you still have to have it in you to want to be the best to have longevity. He sure as hell wasnt thinking about the fans when he wasnt practicing was he? The 16 hrs a day is definately a cultural thing and it would be interesting to see comparisons of say 8 hrs per day vs 12-16 hrs per day in practicing time. Being fresh is just as important as being prepared. There is a thing called over practice
On September 21 2009 08:02 Sadist wrote: If you want to be great you dont play for the fans. I mean I understand wanting to give them a show and entertain them. But you can do that while being great.
Look at Tiger Woods. Roger Federer. Michael Jordan.
They didnt play for the fans....the fans were nice and ya they may have given them a boost here and there but they play for themselves and the competition. The fans can remind you that you need to try your best but honestly you either have it or you dont and if you strictly depend on fans to motivate you you wont be great for all that long at anything you do.
Starcraft was a pioneering field that was seen as something akin to playtime for a homeless bum at one point. If those fans did not exist professional Starcraft would not have existed. If you're trying to build something from nothing do you think you can just play for yourself and be competitive without thought of whether or not people are going to want to watch this game?
Many Korean pros grew up being seen as nothing but Internet Cafe Bums.
On October 28 2007 05:45 pubbanana wrote: When the Emperor was hiding from his father so that he could play StarCraft, when the Storm Zerg was lying to his mother so that he could play games, when the Genius was sitting in a smoke filled PC room with his school friends, when the Hero was waiting in the cold to be able to sign up for a Big Game Hunters tournament ...
These players were Boxer, Yellow, Nada, Reach, etc.
On October 28 2007 05:45 pubbanana wrote: Six years ago, there was no value or fame associated with being called a progamer. Six years later, these four have made the title of "progamer" something that is truly admired and envied by many.
These kids grew up enduring the expectations and disappointments of their parents in regards to their being a player. Boxer's book "Crazy as Me" talks heavily on this subject.
In these cultures you are brought up and expected to be a respectful and dutiful son. There is a certain degree of "I owe this to my parents" because they raised you. How do you think Boxer's parents felt about him when everyone saw him as an internet cafe bum?
What if Boxer walked down this path with his parent's faith in him despite their disappointments and couldn't win a single game, how would he be able to face his parents again? Because he was in a pioneering field, he had to show them that even an internet café bum could do something respectable. And he had to be willing to work that much harder to make sure he could be someone his parents would be proud of.
When my parents heard how I wanted to make gaming as my profession, they trusted me and gave me permission, though they were not completely at ease. Would it be selfish if I said that this was when I ascertained the love of my parents? I wasn't one to cause too much trouble, but I didn't even live up to half of my parents’ expectations; yet they earnestly tried to understand me, saying that they would faithfully watch over me. They knew that no one else could live my life for me and that life was something one had to endure, no matter how difficult and lonely. All they wanted was for their son to live with a little less pain and trouble, and with an earnest heart they nagged at me. For these parents, I was determined to be a proud and respectful son.
When Boxer's parents tell him they don't agree with he's doing, but they trust him in this field they can't even understand you really think he's only going to be playing for himself and the competition?
And what about the fans who because of the sheer fact that they exist allow him to give something back to his parents that had faith in him?
This is a common theme in Starcraft Progaming. Do you remember when Xellos was crying onstage saying it was because of his mom he was here after all of those years of fighting over playing a game? Who else remembers when Nal_Ra said at Blizcon to his fans "Because you exist. We exist."
How about when Xellos made a commitment to stay with GO even without definite sponsorship was he doing that for himself? How about when players paid out of their own pocket to feed their team was that for themselves or to be competitive? How about when Nada stayed with Wemade/Pantech a bottom tier team when he was the best and most accomplished player?
All of these athletes in other sports (Tiger Woods, Roger Federer, Michael Jordan) could play very comfortably because their sports were established with huge salaries. Even if you fail at being a NBA Player, no one looks at playing basketball like it's a joke.
If your profession in society is seen as a joke, something not even considered a profession, you have to work that much harder for any respect in a field.
A top athlete might practice 6 hours a day, a top starcraft player might practice 16 hours a day. There's a lot of factors for this such as your body needing recovery time in order to repair etc. What this allows is most athletes to have a girlfriend, meet celebrities, and enjoy their life. Lebron James as possibly the best nba player right now is an avid video game fan, do you think any Samsung player in comparison has the time to be half decent at Vollyball?
I brought this up because there is a big difference in how much athletes from other sports and starcraft players have to give up for their profession. Which is why the comparison isn't very fair to me. Because when I look at this guy that can't even eat vs this guy that can't buy his 3rd mansion there is a huge difference in their priorities. If you had to live forever in a tiny room and gave up not only things like having friends and a girlfriend, but basic things like sunshine, food to eat, personal security, do you think most basketball players would be able to do that just to be able to say they're the best? Because they care that much about themselves and the competition?
I look at progaming as a whole and from stories I read about players all I ever see is sacrifice, sacrifice, sacrifice. This and the influence of Korean sociocentric culture on Starcraft as well as interviews lead me to believe most players play for many people, not just themselves. Which is often their fans, their parents, the development of esports, and their team. (Why do you think it makes sense for Starcraft to be a team sport when games are all done individually?)
- Why do you think for players who fall down, getting back seems so hard ▲ Boxer: Because they aren't sacrificing enough. Like I said previously, top players know how to go back but they must know how to let go of all of life's pleasures and other stuff. --- But if you are suppose to sacrifice everything how can you live life properly? This is the hardest part. ▲ Savior: I agree the biggest problem is sacrificing. Even if you say you want to let go you can't. Then we think stuff like 'what if I sacrificed everything but I couldn't get results?'
"But if you are suppose to sacrifice everything how can you live life properly? This is the hardest part."
Professional athletes earn more, but they also come up through a larger pool of tougher competition, it's higher risks => higher rewards.
As for professional athletes training 6 hours a day vs pro-gamers 16 hours a day... I don't think that pro-gamers are doing anyone a favor by training 16 hours a day, but e-sports is really new, so there's no real branch of sports science which covers this type of stuff yet making this argument not so viable.
And once again, none of this stuff proves that they play "for the fans" in the way you were talking about. any spectator sport exists only due to the fans, and a lot of the times having support is really great, but all the top players' ultimate goal is to become the best, otherwise they would have never become top players in the first place.
sAviOr is the front-runner of the P-Generation in the e-Sports world. Players like SlayerS_`BoxeR`, [ReD]NaDa, [Oops]Reach, [NC]...YellOw, Nal_rA and others who dominated Starcraft in its early stages after its release, had a different mindset. Weighing their personal development as much as e-Sports development in general, the „old“ generation carried a great duty for e-Sports as a whole, resolutely giving up personal gain for a greater cause. In 2002, when SlayerS_`BoxeR`, who had gotten an individual sponsor with Tongyang Orion, heard that a team league was going to be opened, he donated over 100.000$ of sponsor money to the community. [ReD]NaDa and [NC]...YellOw made lease contracts and played for other teams in order to support their original team. Also [Oops]Reach and Nal_rA helped to maintain their original teams by transferring to other teams.
This article on Savior mentions a shift of ideals where players the old generation of players were willing to give up personal gain for a greater cause. This attitude and perennating culture is what esports was built on.
Many older generations of players carried with them a responsibility to develop esports. What do you think boxer is saying to bisu in this interview.
Boxer: That’s a bit of a stretch. Anyway, progamers getting media exposure isn’t enough to promote E-sports. We have to try and change the negative perception that video games hold in society. We need to make people realize that E-sports is an environment based on fair competition, and that progame teams are groups of professionals, not a bunch of addicts.
Bisu: That’s something I’ll have to learn from Boxer as we live together. I’ve only thought about playing well, and that leading to popularity and fame, not about the big picture.
Let’s close this interview with final remarks
Bisu: I think I’m a very fortunate player. I managed to meet a great mentor like Boxer after a move to SKT1. I hope more of the younger gamers can learn about Boxer’s ideas for progaming. For that to happen, he needs to stay active, right? I hope you succeed as a thirties progamer, and I’ll be helping you at your side.
Boxer: Bisu’s current skill and future potential make him a fine new icon for E-sports. I want to emphasize the mindset a star player needs to have. Every single word you say, or thing you do can become the stereotype of progamers for the public. So you need to speak and act only after thinking deeply. If you can keep the mindset that you are representing all progamers, then I have no doubt that you’ll be a great representative for us all.
I want to emphasize the mindset a star player needs to have. Every single word you say, or thing you do can become the stereotype of progamers for the public. So you need to speak and act only after thinking deeply. If you can keep the mindset that you are representing all progamers, then I have no doubt that you’ll be a great representative for us all.
You don't see the emphasis that so many players put on doing more than just what's necessary for themselves? Why do you think Boxer's pushing Bisu to have the "resolve to jump into that larger world."
once again they are trying to make their industry grow.
That is not the reason why they try to continue to succeed. My point was that your reasoning for savior trying to come back is BS. He gave an answer for the public. If he really wanted to succeed hed be able to motivate himself.
Once again.
If you want to be the best you play for yourself. The fans are a nice side effect and you do your best to satisfy them but you have to go home to yourself and your family. Not the fans.
edit:
In that quote boxer is talking about being a professional. Nothing about the fans. Savior didnt practice because real life> sitting in a room for 12-16hrs a day playing bw with no apparent end in sight. He didnt slack off because he wasnt liked and shit wtf. Progaming is a BUSINESS. You play for your money and for competition. The rest are side effects.
On September 22 2009 03:16 Sadist wrote: That is not the reason why they try to continue to succeed. My point was that your reasoning for savior trying to come back is BS. He gave an answer for the public. If he really wanted to succeed hed be able to motivate himself.
Now multiply you by the majority of the Starcraft community at the time and why the fuck would anyone want to keep playing. I applaud Savior for making the right choice.
Most people treated Savior like shit throughout his career. And if his career is going sour he can just retire because the money vs effort isn't that great when you're playing badly.
If no one likes you, the money isn't that great, you're getting psychological damage due to the game, and you now have to put an exuberant amount of effort to reach an average player when you've already accomplished nearly everything why exactly wouldn't you retire?
I actually wasn't talking about Savior coming back, in fact I don't believe he can come back. I was talking about why he just said fuck it and disappeared. And why because of everything leading up to his slump he has little reason to keep playing.
Many players that are able to continue playing into their mid twenties have a strong fanbase. Boxer talks about this in his entire book how when he did badly he still had his fans to support him which gave him strength. If everyone is saying "Fuck yeah! Savior's gone!" why the fuck would he want to keep playing when he has so many reasons to want to retire?
You can't see that if the majority of the sc community said Fuck yeah! Savior's gone! after his entire 4 years of work being unappreciated by the majority of Starcraft fans, why the fuck anyone would want to keep playing?
If you want to be the best you play for yourself. The fans are a nice side effect and you do your best to satisfy them but you have to go home to yourself and your family. Not the fans.
edit:
In that quote boxer is talking about being a professional. Nothing about the fans. Savior didnt practice because real life> sitting in a room for 12-16hrs a day playing bw with no apparent end in sight. He didnt slack off because he wasnt liked and shit wtf. Progaming is a BUSINESS. You play for your money and for competition. The rest are side effects.
When I talk about progamers not just doing things for themselves I'm saying there's a lot of outside factors. Especially given the fact that progaming wasn't a BUSINESS at all 10 years ago. They're thinking of the fans, of the sponsors, of their familial obligations, of their teams, and the development of esports as well as trying to be the best. How are you going to be a front runner in a developing industry when all you can see is yourself?
Weighing their personal development as much as e-Sports development in general, the „old“ generation carried a great duty for e-Sports as a whole, resolutely giving up personal gain for a greater cause. In 2002, when SlayerS_`BoxeR`, who had gotten an individual sponsor with Tongyang Orion, heard that a team league was going to be opened, he donated over 100.000$ of sponsor money to the community. [ReD]NaDa and [NC]...YellOw made lease contracts and played for other teams in order to support their original team. Also [Oops]Reach and Nal_rA helped to maintain their original teams by transferring to other teams.
Why do you think I quoted this as a source?
When it says right here plainly: Weighing their personal development as much as e-Sports development in general, the „old“ generation carried a great duty for e-Sports as a whole, resolutely giving up personal gain for a greater cause.
If every player is just going to play for themself, not considering anything else like the development of esports they might become the best skillwise, but that's not gonna matter when their industry is folded up.
Where do you think GO/CJ would be if Xellos went to another team when Coach Cho couldn't find a sponsor. Or if GO players said they weren't willing to pay for team food out of their prize money because it was for themself? Or what about when Xellos won Olympus OSL which helped GO get publicity to get a sponsor, you think he was just thinking of himself? You really think esports would still be around if "great" players did that and only thought of themselves?
Oh what's that GO? You're fucked? That's cool I'm going to KTF, this attitude isn't going to create a vicious cycle where one day KTF gets fucked as well and I'm gonna expect to be able to leave for another team as well.
Progaming was born 10 years ago and it is still a developing industry. Look at CJ's decisions compared to MBC. When MBC looked at their players and decided July who built this team from nothing deserved a pay cut. Do you think they valued him or the development of Esports? What about when MBC sold off their assistant coach and team ace Bisu to SKT? You think it was because they thought esports was in it for the long haul? How about when Pusan the new team captain wins a game and throws his captain's jacket into the audience because that's how much he thinks of his team. The fucking coach has to go into the audience to get it back.
This is what I keep saying, progaming is not like Basketball or any stable sport. You often don't have room for self interested douchebags that only see themself if you want to keep it alive. It is a developing industry and if players aren't mindful of their effect on every aspect of it people are just going to start seeing it as the MBC coach did, just a fad that I better cash in on while it's hot.
My argument here is if all you see is yourself, that is not enough to be a great player in a developing industry. That is my argument at this moment.
While to me your argument is that players must only play for themselves and to be the best and that is the only thing they really have to think of.
Also you go home to your team remember?
The fans are a nice side effect and you do your best to satisfy them but you have to go home to yourself and your family. Not the fans.
Not your family. And it's not just the fans I'm talking about right now.
lead me to believe most players play for many people, not just themselves. Which is often their fans, their parents, the development of esports, and their team.
I dont even understand what the hell you are talking about anymore. This all started with the savior supposedly coming back for his fans. Me saying that he didnt quit because the fans didnt like him. That guy saying he didnt play for trophies....
What the fuck happened ;(
If people hate you when you are good that can be more motivation for you. Spite is a hell of a drug. You dont think tons of people from opposing sports franchises didnt hate michael jordan? You dont think people complained they were tired of seeing him win? Same with federer and Tiger?
That should motivate you. Make them realize how great you are.
edit:
you are telling me that if they had fans and were trying to grow a sport but wouldnt get paid and sucked they would keep playing? GTFO
On September 22 2009 04:56 Sadist wrote: you are telling me that if they had fans and were trying to grow a sport but wouldnt get paid and sucked they would keep playing? GTFO
When the fuck did I say this?
Weighing their personal development as much as e-Sports development in general
Why is this so hard to understand? You focus on improving yourself as much as you focus on esports development which includes fans, teams, sponsors etc.
You are trying to say they just gotta focus on themselves and being the best.
I'm trying to say they gotta focus on everything. Especially given the fact that their career has a good chance of not existing in the future if they don't.
On September 20 2009 19:11 nayumi wrote: It's funny how people try to pull Bisu into a discussion which originally had nothing to do with him.
Speaking of haters ...
/sigh
Bisu's career was built on Savior's. Every Savior thread is about Bisu.
(Please let me show you why Bisu is hateable.)
How exactly did Savior`s career help Bisu defeat Stork and Jangbi in two other MSL`s? Just beacuse dismantling Savior was one of Bisu`s greatest achievements does not mean that that alone made him one of the best Protoss of all time.
Besides, it is not like Savior did not lose finals even in his prime. So the MSL against Bisu cannot, by itself, be considered a reason for his downfall (especially since he remained a very strong player even after that for quite some time).
On September 20 2009 19:11 nayumi wrote: It's funny how people try to pull Bisu into a discussion which originally had nothing to do with him.
Speaking of haters ...
/sigh
Bisu's career was built on Savior's. Every Savior thread is about Bisu.
(Please let me show you why Bisu is hateable.)
How exactly did Savior`s career help Bisu defeat Stork and Jangbi in two other MSL`s? Just beacuse dismantling Savior was one of Bisu`s greatest achievements does not mean that that alone made him one of the best Protoss of all time.
Besides, it is not like Savior did not lose finals even in his prime. So the MSL against Bisu cannot, by itself, be considered a reason for his downfall (especially since he remained a very strong player even after that for quite some time).
very strong player and bonjwa, are 2 different things mon. after he lost to bisu he still owned, but not as much. he had more losses.
It's all just talk. He can say he's ready to comeback and start winning as much as he likes but it doesn't mean anything until he does, or if he ever does. I don't think we'll ever see him dominating like he used to. He's passed his prime.
On October 13 2009 10:40 FREEloss_ca wrote: It's all just talk. He can say he's ready to comeback and start winning as much as he likes but it doesn't mean anything until he does, or if he ever does. I don't think we'll ever see him dominating like he used to. He's passed his prime.
On October 13 2009 10:40 FREEloss_ca wrote: It's all just talk. He can say he's ready to comeback and start winning as much as he likes but it doesn't mean anything until he does, or if he ever does. I don't think we'll ever see him dominating like he used to. He's passed his prime.
On October 13 2009 10:40 FREEloss_ca wrote: It's all just talk. He can say he's ready to comeback and start winning as much as he likes but it doesn't mean anything until he does, or if he ever does. I don't think we'll ever see him dominating like he used to. He's passed his prime.
On October 13 2009 10:40 FREEloss_ca wrote: It's all just talk. He can say he's ready to comeback and start winning as much as he likes but it doesn't mean anything until he does, or if he ever does. I don't think we'll ever see him dominating like he used to. He's passed his prime.
On October 13 2009 10:40 FREEloss_ca wrote: It's all just talk. He can say he's ready to comeback and start winning as much as he likes but it doesn't mean anything until he does, or if he ever does. I don't think we'll ever see him dominating like he used to. He's passed his prime.
MADNESS
SPARTA
WHAT IS OUR PROFESSION?
SAVING! ´ FOR THE SAVIOR MAY SAVE THE PROGAMING WORLD FROM SHITTY PLAYER!
Not saying it in a gay way, but Savi0r really looked cool in 2008. Love his attitude he has on his face. On the opposite there is Stork whom i love because of his dorky innocent face. Gogo Savi0r!
On October 30 2009 02:27 ceaRshaf wrote: Not saying it in a gay way, but Savi0r really looked cool in 2008. Love his attitude he has on his face. On the opposite there is Stork whom i love because of his dorky innocent face. Gogo Savi0r!
Haha interesting that you say that cuz I think that's why Savior and Stork, besides their badass gaming skills, are my favorite progamers.
On November 01 2009 10:56 alffla wrote: well it might have been someone bumpnig (if savior lost) and being like LOL SAVIOR'S RESOLVE? HAHA WUT A NOOB LOOOL RESOVLE MY ASS
On November 01 2009 10:56 alffla wrote: well it might have been someone bumpnig (if savior lost) and being like LOL SAVIOR'S RESOLVE? HAHA WUT A NOOB LOOOL RESOVLE MY ASS
Hoping for a scrubby 0-3 zvz. and to make things look worse, the winner gets 0-3 by the next player.
On November 01 2009 10:56 alffla wrote: well it might have been someone bumpnig (if savior lost) and being like LOL SAVIOR'S RESOLVE? HAHA WUT A NOOB LOOOL RESOVLE MY ASS
Hoping for a scrubby 0-3 zvz. and to make things look worse, the winner gets 0-3 by the next player.
sAviOr's game vs pusan was gosu... He had just enough at the right places always.. Perfect overlord placement too.. What a great game. on a 4 win streak too
On November 08 2009 01:47 Mobius wrote: sAviOr's game vs pusan was gosu... He had just enough at the right places always.. Perfect overlord placement too.. What a great game. on a 4 win streak too
I don't see how its amazing if you've watched any other ZvP lately.
I agree that saviors game was terribly gosu... but it could also be that zvp was always saviors best matchup, and pusan hasn't been that great at pvz. I'm not trying to downplay MJY's win, because it was just such a kickass game, I mean the guy went from muta ling to ultra ling... and got about 3 lurkers total... and then proceeded to rape Pusan with drops without ever engaging his army... so ballser. Just saying, he needs to be winning against some truely threatening players before I would ever think of saying that he's back
On November 08 2009 01:47 Mobius wrote: sAviOr's game vs pusan was gosu... He had just enough at the right places always.. Perfect overlord placement too.. What a great game. on a 4 win streak too
I don't see how its amazing if you've watched any other ZvP lately.
How? It was completely different from any other ZvP that have happened lately, the game is pure epicness by maestro he had perfect defence and timing love it!
On November 08 2009 01:47 Mobius wrote: sAviOr's game vs pusan was gosu... He had just enough at the right places always.. Perfect overlord placement too.. What a great game. on a 4 win streak too
I don't see how its amazing if you've watched any other ZvP lately.
How? It was completely different from any other ZvP that have happened lately, the game is pure epicness by maestro he had perfect defence and timing love it!
Mutaling into hive with hardly any hydra/lurker is just like any other zvp? ok
in savior's reign he wasn't really robotic, it was more like a dark lord. we knew he wasn't robotic since when we got a hold of his replays he would only be at 200ish apm...robotic would be more like mechanic perfectionists like flash, nada, or jaedong. though not mechanically perfect he had a dark aura around time as we'd watch every single game hoping he would lose, but he denied us each and every time. after he destroyed our beloved heroes like boxer and nada, there was a time where people questioned if beating him was even possible. anyone who even took a match was hyped up, but in reality they just took a single match. then lost 3:0 to bisu
i guess the anti-bisu fans are those who also watched savior's reign with disgust but somehow deep down enjoyed the ruthless dominance. those who would only accept savior's reign being halted by a hero of yore like boxer, or nada. or at least thats how i saw it
He probably practiced like hell for that match, and was really motivated for it. Was it just me or was he hiding his ling count temporarily (like when he was pressuring but didn't want to attack yet, he'd use half his lings or whatever) to make it so Jaedong didn't build a sunken and didn't put his units in position to defend the amount of lings Savior had?
He probably practiced like hell for that match, and was really motivated for it. Was it just me or was he hiding his ling count temporarily (like when he was pressuring but didn't want to attack yet, he'd use half his lings or whatever) to make it so Jaedong didn't build a sunken and didn't put his units in position to defend the amount of lings Savior had?
yes. Also jaedong opened with a drone before lings, and got a faster gas, so he got 4 lings then +2, vs saviors 6 lings + 2 etc. Savior micro'd perfectly and put jaedong on the ropes constantly. His hiding of lings helped this.
Jaedong got distracted by 2 snuck in lings and savior could flank easily.
I love how this gets bumped every game sAviOr plays... ^^ I feel bad for those who don't want to be spoiled because it's just too tempting to find out^^
On November 30 2009 20:09 r33k wrote: I love how this gets bumped every game sAviOr plays... ^^ I feel bad for those who don't want to be spoiled because it's just too tempting to find out^^
On November 01 2009 13:18 AttackZerg wrote: If savior wins a starleague before sc2 comes out I will permban myself from teamliquid.net and retire from even casual iccup games.
That said , good luck maestro!
I'm going to keep a bookmark to this thread on hand just in case this does happen, so i can remind you.
Did anyone else think saviors hair looked somewhat crazy in the jaedong game? I think hes been training so hard he doesnt have time for haircuts or styling his hair. Maybe next time we see him he will look like a cave man.
On November 01 2009 10:56 alffla wrote: well it might have been someone bumpnig (if savior lost) and being like LOL SAVIOR'S RESOLVE? HAHA WUT A NOOB LOOOL RESOVLE MY ASS
LOL SAVIOR'S RESOLVE? HAHA WUT A NOOB LOOOL RESOVLE MY ASS
go say LOL BOXER SUCH A NOOB LOLOLOL after he lost 0-2 to yellow?
there are certainly players i hate but i don't go around screaming "NOOB" in a thread where they make their determination known, even if it was motherfucking backho
even if it has an annoying fanbase, i don't think i'll do the same in a similar thread about bisu
and why? because I believe they deserve some fucking respect
go say LOL BOXER SUCH A NOOB LOLOLOL after he lost 0-2 to yellow?
there are certainly players i hate but i don't go around screaming "NOOB" in a thread where they make their determination known, even if it was motherfucking backho
even if it has an annoying fanbase, i don't think i'll do the same in a similar thread about bisu
and why? because I believe they deserve some fucking respect
"People told me that I should be thankful for the negative comments, because they are a form of attention. Now I'm used to it. It's better than not caring at all."
EPT
![[image loading]](http://img.dailygame.co.kr/news/200909/attachments/20090916_895e295fa5bb1a5828d84e6898e91c9b.jpg)
sAviOr is a star player that represents Korean e-Sports. However, he has been in a slump for the last two years, not having any achievements. Now, he is ready to once again become an idol to the e-Sports fans. We heard his resolution for the new season during the CJ workshop at Daebu Island.![[image loading]](http://img.dailygame.co.kr/news/200909/attachments/20090916_88982c9d55a3acd7a784f494c82e2d3b.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img.dailygame.co.kr/news/200909/attachments/20090916_45361894021fd4fa38500f310b814bb8.jpg)
It's like he's made these type of promises before. 
![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/post-74954-1232296926.jpg)
).
go around thinking they run the show....
GO MJY
![[image loading]](http://www.blogcdn.com/www.urlesque.com/media/2008/08/dawsons-ugly-cry.jpg)
