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konadora
Singapore66163 Posts
Source: - Fomos
Main reason by WeMade was cited as saying that go.go was fine with the contract, but his parents wanted go.go to receive a salary that was equivalent to MBCGame's Light or WeMade FOX's Mind. In addition to that, with Mind and NaDa in WeMade FOX, it was uncertain whether go.go can become the team's ace Terran player, and along with the burden of playing in a new team, the negotiations failed in the end.
Go.go now has 4 days (28th to 31st) to negotiate with Hite and to get back into his team. If he succeeds in getting back into his team, he can play as normal but should be fail to do so, he will have to become a semi-pro for a year and wait for the next year's FA season.
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Lol, parents foil FA again.
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Why are Korean parents so demanding? It's ridiculous, just let their kids do whatever they need to without interference.
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Damn, in JD's instance we could argue for his parents, but here I don't think it applies nearly as much.
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United States12607 Posts
You have to wonder how in touch with the SC scene these players' parents are...things like Jaedong's father saying he didn't expect his son to win the OSL Finals (politeness or not, that's ridiculous) and Go.go's parents demanding he be paid as well as Light or Mind (who are both significantly better, more accomplished, and higher-profile players) are very unsettling. It's common knowledge that parents are awful at gauging the abilities of their own children, and this makes them an obstacle to reasonable contracts.
The big picture here is that KeSPA's rules that a) parents must approve contracts and b) players are not allowed agents are awful. Essentially these rules make parents into agents...it's ridiculous for KeSPA to say "you cannot have an informed professional advise you or assist you with contract negotiations, but instead any contract you sign must be approved by two questionably competent people whose judgments are compromised by a massive conflict of interest".
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Belgium9947 Posts
expect to see go.go bming wemade players in hite vs wemade next proleague
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In these situations I sometimes wish Korean parents were like some American parents
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This is weird, but we dont have the details of the offer.. maybe it was low but he doesnt deserves what Mind or light are winning.
And the parents make the decision by the stupid rule of Kespa for not allow agents (they really know how to negotiate)
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nice. after looking at those new maps, sparkyz are gonna need another terran next proleague. i hope they don't lowball him too bad and keep things happy.
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On August 29 2009 02:31 RaGe wrote:
expect to see go.go bming wemade players in hite vs wemade next proleague
can't wait for this.
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Lol this is such b/s... would someone please punch Kespa in the face!!!
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Honestly who the hell would want go.go on their team? Even if he is a mediocre terran player he has zero charisma.
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On August 29 2009 02:36 _K_ wrote:
In these situations I sometimes wish Korean parents were like some American parents
i kinda wish kespa and FA was you know FREE, but its actually limited and debilitating. kinda wish it was like FA in the usa.
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The parents + FA combo strikes again. This would be hilarious if it weren't so tragic. 
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konadora
Singapore66163 Posts
On August 29 2009 02:40 TheFoReveRwaR wrote:
Honestly who the hell would want go.go on their team? Even if he is a mediocre terran player he has zero charisma.
Have you spoken to OSWater yet
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same pay as mind? =DDDDDD Wowwww those parents need to follow the scene a little. He still has a MSL gold and can compete against top players. Sure, go.go can cheese sometimes, but yeah...
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United States47024 Posts
On August 29 2009 02:30 JWD wrote:
The big picture here is that KeSPA's rules that a) parents must approve contracts and b) players are not allowed agents are awful. Essentially these rules make parents into agents...it's ridiculous for KeSPA to say "you cannot have an informed professional advise you or assist you with contract negotiations, but instead any contract you sign must be approved by two questionably competent people whose judgments are compromised by a massive conflict of interest".
This.
Honestly, as bad as these parents may seem right now, you have to realize that without agents, forcing players to negotiate on their own would be WORSE. If Jaedong's parents hadn't stepped in, it would be entirely possible that Jaedong would still be playing for Hwaseung for 70M KRW a year, which is a joke.
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On August 29 2009 02:40 TheFoReveRwaR wrote:
Honestly who the hell would want go.go on their team? Even if he is a mediocre terran player he has zero charisma.
I really really don't like go.go, but I'd say he'd make a decent addition to most teams as a second string Terran player. People have previously mentioned that NaDa isn't really a PL player for FOX now, and his retirement may be coming soon, Mind has been slumping, and BaBy is inexperienced, so go.go could have been a decent choice for one of the two Terrans FOX will most likely be using.
On August 29 2009 02:50 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On August 29 2009 02:30 JWD wrote:
The big picture here is that KeSPA's rules that a) parents must approve contracts and b) players are not allowed agents are awful. Essentially these rules make parents into agents...it's ridiculous for KeSPA to say "you cannot have an informed professional advise you or assist you with contract negotiations, but instead any contract you sign must be approved by two questionably competent people whose judgments are compromised by a massive conflict of interest". This. Honestly, as bad as these parents may seem right now, you have to realize that without agents, forcing players to negotiate on their own would be WORSE. If Jaedong's parents hadn't stepped in, it would be entirely possible that Jaedong would still be playing for Hwaseung for 70M KRW a year, which is a joke.
I was under the impression Jaedong WAS still playing for that? I thought he had to settle for whatever Oz gives him now?
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United States47024 Posts
On August 29 2009 02:52 littlechava wrote:
I was under the impression Jaedong WAS still playing for that? I thought he had to settle for whatever Oz gives him now?
That or retire. I haven't seen anything saying one way or the other yet.
Still, I doubt that Hwaseung has the balls to offer him such an insultingly low salary right now, especially with this issue in everyone's minds. At worst, JD will probably get the 140M salary originally offered.
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This is so ridiculous. They should be allowed agents, and agents that are knowledgeable in the scene. Artosis: interested in a new career path?
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wait go.go's 20, unless i'm missing something, he doesn't need parental permission to negotiate a contract
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Ok so have any players succeeded in FA so far? cause it has looked like no one has gotten anything.
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Ah, shit. Poor go.go is going to take a massive pay cut or leave. I feel bad for making fun of him.
On the other hand, more offensive CCs vs wemade brings a huge smile to my face.
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konadora
Singapore66163 Posts
On August 29 2009 03:00 uglymoose89 wrote:
Ok so have any players succeeded in FA so far? cause it has looked like no one has gotten anything.
nobody
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'asfjsd'kfj
this whole free agent thing is a shitty idea.
what the hell.
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United States47024 Posts
On August 29 2009 03:03 SnowFantasy wrote:
'asfjsd'kfj
this whole free agent thing is a shitty idea.
what the hell.
Or rather, it was a good idea until Kespa instated a bunch of rules that neutered the concept of free agency.
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No!, No Wemade Go.Go to laugh at, I hope Hite takes him back though, its always sad to see players retiring, and even more so when they have to retire for shitty reasons.
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Come on Hitte! Take back Go.Go
Parents and FA sucks. DIE KESPA DOGS
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If kespa was a man, i'd kill him in a very violant manner.
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The gogo's pic on the frontpage of fomos is better imo. It looks like he's actually in the process of a fail.
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Baltimore, USA22254 Posts
Ugh, FA strikes again, although personally I'd rather have him stay on Hite anyways.
I hope he builds a pillow fort in the WeMade house and goes back to Sparkyz. 
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konadora
Singapore66163 Posts
On August 29 2009 03:21 ghostWriter wrote:
The gogo's pic on the frontpage of fomos is better imo. It looks like he's actually in the process of a fail.
done LOL
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On August 29 2009 03:22 EvilTeletubby wrote:I hope he builds a pillow fort in the WeMade house and goes back to Sparkyz.
What??? i dont get it 
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8748 Posts
rofl KeSPA free agency sooooooo bad
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Still wonder why go.go wanted to go to WeMade, as there are 2 top terrans to compete at
No sense
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Wow, FA has really been screwing people over lately. I don't get why Kespa won't just allow agents to negotiate with the teams for the players. Also the parents shouldn't be that demanding of the other teams for money.
Poor Go.Go, hopefully hite will take him in again.
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United States17042 Posts
FA just isn't going so well for kespa.
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On August 29 2009 03:23 konadora wrote:Show nested quote +On August 29 2009 03:21 ghostWriter wrote:
The gogo's pic on the frontpage of fomos is better imo. It looks like he's actually in the process of a fail. done LOL
HAHA awesome!
he looks so funny.
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Expecting go.go to get the same salary as Light and Mind is a bit much, but again it's just a story of parents trying to get a better deal for their children. There's nothing wrong with that, the system is what's wrong.
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Russian Federation1381 Posts
I can understand JD's parents, but wtf are gogo's thinking, way to ruin a progaming career. At least he still has a chance to continue playing. FA sucks.
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Kespa is like a jewish vampire.
They just want to bleed progamers dry, and screw them out of all of the money.
Thats bad, but Kespa is worse.
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pripple
Finland1714 Posts
niice, 0 succesful transfers @ this FA, something just might be wrong?
hopefully Hite takes go.go back.
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Germany2762 Posts
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so FA completely failed :/ not 1 player changed teams meh i didnt expect it work tho but i thought when go.go was negotiating with wemade he would atleast change teams
this is a good example of why pro gamers need agents because right now its some 19 year old kid ( actually go.go is 20 why do his parents have a say ?) who knows not very much outside of the world of starcraft and his parents who know very little about the starcraft scene
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Baa?21243 Posts
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Same pay as Light or Mind? Terran Ace player? The only team that he would actually be an Terran Ace is in the Air Force.
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
if his parents knew more about the scene, which is way more than most users here would know, then they probably wouldn't let their kid go into progaming in the first place
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Well he did all kill Wemade in Winner's league and did advance farther in individual leagues than Mind and Nada so I can understand the parent's reasoning.
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On August 29 2009 02:30 JWD wrote:
things like Jaedong's father saying he didn't expect his son to win the OSL Finals (politeness or not, that's ridiculous)
I can't believe people keep bringing this up - wow, it was just politeness, and it's pretty much expected of parents. Given that the normal response is "I am hopeful for my son's victory" combined with the stress of JD's situation, it's completely understandable (and I would argue - expected) that they would downgrade that normal response to "I was hopeful for 1 win".
It's called a cultural difference, please stop calling it "ridiculous" everyone.
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What probably happened was that wemade couldn't afford such a player as go.go.
The secret to go.go being in Sparkyz is that they built two gaming houses, one for the team and one for go.go. Also, his contract states that other players can bribe go.go for wins in tournaments and proleague. Without this, nobody would ever win against this player.
In this economic hardship no other team could even think about go.go, so I guess we were all fools to consider this. The man is exceedingly wealthy and is probably more respected than the president of Korea.
After all, he did create the sun, stars and our universe.
All praise Lord go.go and the tidings he brings.
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ROFL go.go trying to get equal salary to Nada/Mind he deserves half at most.
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On August 29 2009 05:34 NovaTheFeared wrote:
ROFL go.go trying to get equal salary to Nada/Mind he deserves half at most.
Not if you're going by current performances.
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To people who say parents are so demanding: the players aren't allowed to have agents. Parents are the best alternative and refusing a contract is fine. Progamers aren't paid very well anyways and going to University would always be an option if DogSPA fucks you over.
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Some more FA fail lol also gogo's parents really think he has the stuff lol
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On August 29 2009 03:00 uglymoose89 wrote:
Ok so have any players succeeded in FA so far? cause it has looked like no one has gotten anything.
It's a system that's designed to fail. Someone succeeding in it would be anathema to its design goals.
I don't get why Kespa won't just allow agents to negotiate with the teams for the players.
Because then it wouldn't fail. See above.
On August 29 2009 03:40 GHOSTCLAW wrote:
FA just isn't going so well for kespa.
Oh, it's doing exactly what they want: keeping player prices down.
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Damnit...don't tell me I will be denied of BM CCs =(
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i dunno, i think go.go is justified there. what has mind/light done recently? i'd say go.go is in that class of players who are capable of beating almost anyone in a proleague game but can't pull it together for the starleagues at the moment, GET THAT MONEY SON
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Hong Kong20321 Posts
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On August 29 2009 02:40 TheFoReveRwaR wrote:
Honestly who the hell would want go.go on their team? Even if he is a mediocre terran player he has zero charisma.
How much charisma does Jaedong have again?
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On August 29 2009 05:55 benjammin wrote:
i dunno, i think go.go is justified there. what has mind/light done recently? i'd say go.go is in that class of players who are capable of beating almost anyone in a proleague game but can't pull it together for the starleagues at the moment, GET THAT MONEY SON
Light raped all year, but unfortunately got cocky vs yarnc in the msl, and somehow lost to 815 in the osl wild card. Light and Mind are on a tier above gogo, and Light definitely had the results this year to back it up.
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go.go is 21 and his parents are still telling him what to do? im so glad i dont live in korea
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On August 29 2009 06:08 iamho wrote:
go.go is 21 and his parents are still telling him what to do? im so glad i dont live in korea
closest thing he has to an agent......
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On August 29 2009 06:04 mog87 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 29 2009 05:55 benjammin wrote:
i dunno, i think go.go is justified there. what has mind/light done recently? i'd say go.go is in that class of players who are capable of beating almost anyone in a proleague game but can't pull it together for the starleagues at the moment, GET THAT MONEY SON Light raped all year, but unfortunately got cocky vs yarnc in the msl, and somehow lost to 815 in the osl wild card. Light and Mind are on a tier above gogo, and Light definitely had the results this year to back it up.
How the hell is Light a "tier above go.go"?
You know that Go.go actually made a starleague this season right?
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light definitely plays better than go.go, at least in PL. its not like teams really care about SLs.
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light's at 57% win pct for 09, gogo is at 52%, both don't have a great deal of quality wins or any real starleague impact, i'd say that's roughly equivalent, you could argue light plays harder opponents since he's the only player on mbc playing well these days
however, light's tvt win against fantasy is one of the best games of the year (imo) and is playing well recently
i can't see how they are THAT far apart in terms of value, if go.go's parents set light's salary as their goal and negotiated down, i think that'd be smart
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Light does better in PL with a combined 36-17 against go.go's measly 14-15, but go.go's done better in SLs recently. Okay, teams care about PL more so Light has the advantage there. But go.go has done better than mind everywhere recently.
Mind didn't make it out of either qualifier, losing to Miso and Hyun, and has only won against scrubs in PL. Performance-wise, go.go should be paid around the same money that Mind is.
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Light is the one player that keeps mbc from being another estro or something. go.go was on hite and even with the variety of excellent practice partners, he was not that big of a deal in proleague. No offense, but he got into the ro16 by beating Juni (lol) and a slumping luxury.
Light was eliminated by yarnc who reached the finals, not much to complain about there.
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On August 29 2009 02:26 ghostWriter wrote:
Why are Korean parents so demanding? It's ridiculous, just let their kids do whatever they need to without interference.
????? Wouldnt u want your son to make alot of money and get the most benefits for what he is worth?
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This situation and JD's are why parents can be good for you (if they want a reasonable salary and you're being undercut).... or very very bad for you (if they demand waaaaaaaay too much) as agents. Banning agents = fail.
KeSPAs rules are a joke again..... and again..... and again.
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On August 29 2009 02:30 JWD wrote:
You have to wonder how in touch with the SC scene these players' parents are...things like Jaedong's father saying he didn't expect his son to win the OSL Finals (politeness or not, that's ridiculous) and Go.go's parents demanding he be paid as well as Light or Mind (who are both significantly better, more accomplished, and higher-profile players) are very unsettling. It's common knowledge that parents are awful at gauging the abilities of their own children, and this makes them an obstacle to reasonable contracts.
The big picture here is that KeSPA's rules that a) parents must approve contracts and b) players are not allowed agents are awful. Essentially these rules make parents into agents...it's ridiculous for KeSPA to say "you cannot have an informed professional advise you or assist you with contract negotiations, but instead any contract you sign must be approved by two questionably competent people whose judgments are compromised by a massive conflict of interest".
So true, so true.
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On August 29 2009 06:40 roronoe wrote:Show nested quote +On August 29 2009 02:30 JWD wrote:
You have to wonder how in touch with the SC scene these players' parents are...things like Jaedong's father saying he didn't expect his son to win the OSL Finals (politeness or not, that's ridiculous) and Go.go's parents demanding he be paid as well as Light or Mind (who are both significantly better, more accomplished, and higher-profile players) are very unsettling. It's common knowledge that parents are awful at gauging the abilities of their own children, and this makes them an obstacle to reasonable contracts.
The big picture here is that KeSPA's rules that a) parents must approve contracts and b) players are not allowed agents are awful. Essentially these rules make parents into agents...it's ridiculous for KeSPA to say "you cannot have an informed professional advise you or assist you with contract negotiations, but instead any contract you sign must be approved by two questionably competent people whose judgments are compromised by a massive conflict of interest". So true, so true.
you have to remember about korean laws, maybe KeSpa is just following what the korean laws dictate about underage players.
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To everyone blaming "parents" : how old are you ?
Can't wait to see when you get childs and how you'll perform...
Don't blame them so hard, you need to understand that some of them just want the best for their childs. Even if they fail.
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Wow, this is a bad and a good thing both at the same time, not every time he plays Fox he will try his hardest to demolish them, but at the same time he has a year of not being a pro to overcome. That is if he doesnt get signed.
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this has been the worst free agency ever. i was really hoping to see teams with totally different rosters next season, but it looks like everyone will remain where they are except the few that retired.
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51454 Posts
On August 29 2009 06:11 TheFoReveRwaR wrote:Show nested quote +On August 29 2009 06:04 mog87 wrote:On August 29 2009 05:55 benjammin wrote:
i dunno, i think go.go is justified there. what has mind/light done recently? i'd say go.go is in that class of players who are capable of beating almost anyone in a proleague game but can't pull it together for the starleagues at the moment, GET THAT MONEY SON Light raped all year, but unfortunately got cocky vs yarnc in the msl, and somehow lost to 815 in the osl wild card. Light and Mind are on a tier above gogo, and Light definitely had the results this year to back it up. How the hell is Light a "tier above go.go"? You know that Go.go actually made a starleague this season right?
there is a reason why light is known as super terran
yes he may fuck up at times but overall he is a better terran than go.go
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On August 29 2009 06:33 SanguineToss wrote:Show nested quote +On August 29 2009 02:26 ghostWriter wrote:
Why are Korean parents so demanding? It's ridiculous, just let their kids do whatever they need to without interference. ????? Wouldnt u want your son to make alot of money and get the most benefits for what he is worth?
yes, because semi-progamers make so much money
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On August 29 2009 02:26 ghostWriter wrote:
Why are Korean parents so demanding? It's ridiculous, just let their kids do whatever they need to without interference.
I believe the real question is "Why is Kespa so demanding?"
Although I do agree that gogo's parents don't really understand that he is not up up par with Mind/Light and thus does not deserve their salary.
I don't think JD's parents were too demanding I just think they understood how important he is/how he is sacrificing his education.
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gogo is worth nowhere near that much money
stupid parents
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On August 29 2009 02:30 JWD wrote:
a) parents must approve contracts and b) players are not allowed agents are awful. Essentially these rules make parents into agents.
THIS. It forces the Pro gamers to have agents that do NOT know much about the industry, and obviously want as much for their child as possible, not exactly professional.
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United States47024 Posts
On August 29 2009 07:51 iamho wrote:
yes, because progamers will make so much money in 20 years
Fixed.
As I said before, the likely outlook on this is looking out for the long-term. While they might make more money NOW than a college graduate, progaming is a young and volatile industry, and combined with the rapid deterioration of a player's skill past their early 20s, there is little to no job security in the long run. It seems that unless you're making enough money to secure your financial future over the next 20-30 years (or at least enough to make up for the lack of job security), it would be considered better to find a line of work that has long-term security (which is why Jaedong's parents want him to get an education in a computer-related field). IMO this is not an unreasonable line of thinking to have, and treating these parents like they're crazy seems pretty out of line.
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Roffles
Pitcairn19291 Posts
I can see why Jaedong's parents want more money, but go.go? Seriously? His parents should really lay off and let him decide for himself.
Anyways, FA fails hard.
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The parents are not the problem in my opinion. For go.go the parents may be a problem, but for Jaedong, his parents have a legitimate reason. Jaedong is playing for peanuts compared to his current skill level. As for go.go, his parents must be watching different games because in my opinoin, Light and Mind are better than go.go in terms of skill level. To demand as much money as those two players is, in my opinion, very delusional.
It is the FA system for Proleague that is the main issue. Too much concessions to corporations and no freedom for the players. There is no point to a FA system that restricts the players so much.
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United States2186 Posts
Hahaha poor Light.
He was the second best Terran in proleague and people somehow think he's worse than go.go? Not Light's fault he runs into Jaedong then Yarnc when trying to qualify for OSL while gogo faces Juni.
Can't see the full story here but the parents do seem to be pretty unreasonable. go.go is definitely not of Light's caliber, a fluke starleague ro8 notwithstanding. Mind also has proven that he's a very strong player when in form. go.go simply isn't on the same level.
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go.go and jaedong should go form their own proteams and make their own starleague & proleague. Kespa-free.
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oh gogo
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On August 29 2009 08:01 ShaperofDreams wrote:Show nested quote +On August 29 2009 02:26 ghostWriter wrote:
Why are Korean parents so demanding? It's ridiculous, just let their kids do whatever they need to without interference. I believe the real question is "Why is Kespa so demanding?" Although I do agree that gogo's parents don't really understand that he is not up up par with Mind/Light and thus does not deserve their salary. I don't think JD's parents were too demanding I just think they understood how important he is/how he is sacrificing his education.
Just because you don't go to college when you are 18 / 19 / 20 doesn't mean you are "sacrificing your education". Seriously, right now he isn't sacrificing anything. I'm not sure how much 150M is in US, but I'm guessing upwards of 150k+. (Since Flash, etc. get 200+)
You tell me, what job pays 150k+ with a BS? Make the money now, then go to college. In the end you have made more money. SC > School, for such high calibre players.
I do agree that it's a huge sacrifice for B-Teamers and frankly, not ever worth it. Now, if they could stay at home and practice with A-Team over Internet then that would be a sacrifice since you could go to school and be on the B-Team.
What I wouldn't give for a system similar to all professional sports in which you go to college play the sport, get your degree and then get drafted onto a team. That should be the model they follow.
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On August 29 2009 08:09 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On August 29 2009 07:51 iamho wrote:
yes, because progamers will make so much money in 20 years Fixed. As I said before, the likely outlook on this is looking out for the long-term. While they might make more money NOW than a college graduate, progaming is a young and volatile industry, and combined with the rapid deterioration of a player's skill past their early 20s, there is little to no job security in the long run. It seems that unless you're making enough money to secure your financial future over the next 20-30 years (or at least enough to make up for the lack of job security), it would be considered better to find a line of work that has long-term security (which is why Jaedong's parents want him to get an education in a computer-related field). IMO this is not an unreasonable line of thinking to have, and treating these parents like they're crazy seems pretty out of line.
I know this might be a stretch, but you can go to school after playing SC when the money is not sufficient for the time invested. Simply retire then go to school. I'm curious where the written rule is that if you don't go to college before your 21 or 22 that you will never graduate college or succeed. I have real life examples in my own family to disprove this horrid notion.
Stay in the line of work that pays more NOW, and then when it doesn't pay so well go to school. You have lost no time. There are hardly any jobs with a BS and no experience that you make over 100k+. Good luck finding one!
On subject of FA and Go.go: This system is absolutely horrendous, but it serves the purpose it was created for as was alluded to by a previous poster. To keep player prices down. It's a rigged system. Also, whats the legal age in KR? 18 here in the States.
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On August 29 2009 10:09 Aegraen wrote:
What I wouldn't give for a system similar to all professional sports in which you go to college play the sport, get your degree and then get drafted onto a team. That should be the model they follow.
You... might want to read up on your professional sports drafts... why don't you look up the numbers for how many players who enter the draft actually finish their degree programs one day.
I'll give you a hint: It's not as high as you're making it seem to be.
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I'm not a big fan of go.go, but I don't like to see progamers falling as a victim to FA and parents
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On August 29 2009 10:30 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:Show nested quote +On August 29 2009 10:09 Aegraen wrote:
What I wouldn't give for a system similar to all professional sports in which you go to college play the sport, get your degree and then get drafted onto a team. That should be the model they follow. You... might want to read up on your professional sports drafts... why don't you look up the numbers for how many players who enter the draft actually finish their degree programs one day. I'll give you a hint: It's not as high as you're making it seem to be.
It's bigger than 0% is it not? I suppose you would rather keep the current state of SC static. Gotcha!
Anyways, not like you need to go to college when your minimum salary is upwards of 350k+ a year, and you get a Pension after 2-3-4 years depending on sport.
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i really dont understand the no agents rule. I mean its obvious there is some collusion going on.
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I really wish Fomos would interview Kespa and ask them what they think of the developments in FA.
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To all the people blaming the parents:
1) As mentioned above many times, the players aren't allowed agents and FA rules pretty much force parents to be involved.
2) Our perspective on the players is different from that of the parents. The parents care about the actual person, while we're focus on the player. While most of you see Jaedong retiring from sc as the least desirable outcome, the parents see Jaedong overworked and missing an education without even receiving a fair wage as the worst outcome.
3) While the players can get an education later in life, it's not just about being behind in academics by 2 or 3 years. These kids are stuck in a room playing one video game all day. They are missing out on a lot of experiences and learning opportunities. The parents are right to think that this is not worth it unless the players are paid a certain amount of money, and that retirement may be a better option.
Lastly, remember that most of what we know about how the players feel about playing sc and their lives in general comes from interviews and second-hand sources. We don't really get to see what's really happening with the players while the parents are much closer to the situation.
You guys could be right that the parents are screwing up, but we just don't have enough information to be able to make that judgment right now. We have no idea what is going on in the players' personal lives.
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NeverGG
United Kingdom5399 Posts
FA fails so hard to deliver anything except headaches for all involved. Considering not a single trade has come out of it and a veteran player (Midas) is now stuck in limbo, plus a much loved champion with a tonne of talent might end up moving to America to study after all he's done for the scene - IMHO it's just been a giant waste of time and a stupid drama that has only served to anger fans, displace players and give some of the players parents a very bad image with fans.
If some interesting trades had emerged and no one had gotten burned in the process it would have been a great facet for mixing up proleague and the teams themselves, but as it is it's just been a total failure which highlighted the element of eSports I understand, but do not care for - times when it's just all about the money.
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I would like to know what gogo's original negotiation salary with the wemade was- if it was a really big difference I would sort of understand
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You might not make 150k straight out of college, but that doesn't matter.
You could make that much towards the end of your career. You lose those years, the ones at the end of your career. Not the ones at the start.
It wouldn't matter if was all there was to it. But starting your career later is going to hurt your career.
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why on earth would you require an athlete to go to college and get a degree if they are capable of playing in a professional league out of high school?
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That would be no fun if go.go doesn't get back on a team! No more bm CCs!
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On August 29 2009 11:46 deathgod6 wrote:That would be no fun if go.go doesn't get back on a team! No more bm CCs!
never worry, skyhigh will save the day!
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On August 29 2009 05:28 OSWater wrote:
What probably happened was that wemade couldn't afford such a player as go.go.
The secret to go.go being in Sparkyz is that they built two gaming houses, one for the team and one for go.go. Also, his contract states that other players can bribe go.go for wins in tournaments and proleague. Without this, nobody would ever win against this player.
In this economic hardship no other team could even think about go.go, so I guess we were all fools to consider this. The man is exceedingly wealthy and is probably more respected than the president of Korea.
After all, he did create the sun, stars and our universe.
All praise Lord go.go and the tidings he brings.
thread just got good
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On August 29 2009 10:42 Aegraen wrote:Show nested quote +On August 29 2009 10:30 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:On August 29 2009 10:09 Aegraen wrote:
What I wouldn't give for a system similar to all professional sports in which you go to college play the sport, get your degree and then get drafted onto a team. That should be the model they follow. You... might want to read up on your professional sports drafts... why don't you look up the numbers for how many players who enter the draft actually finish their degree programs one day. I'll give you a hint: It's not as high as you're making it seem to be. It's bigger than 0% is it not? I suppose you would rather keep the current state of SC static. Gotcha! Anyways, not like you need to go to college when your minimum salary is upwards of 350k+ a year, and you get a Pension after 2-3-4 years depending on sport.
You misinterpreted what I wrote.
You made it seem as if every athlete who gets drafted has a college degree. Many don't. Many of these guys leave as sophomores and juniors (and in the rare cases, after a year) and there are no guarantees. They could have an injury plagued career. They could just straight up not adjust. There are no guarantees.
In this situation (StarCraft, now), none of these kids are stupid. Not only are they good, but a lot of them could probably get a good ride to a school of their choice. They'll all be able to do college or carry a career after this point in time. Why shouldn't they stay with the money flow now and just go to college at a later date.
I agree that the current state of this free agency is absolute shit, but I'm just pointing out a flaw in your logic.
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poor go.go... he doesnt diserve that. I hope hite will keep him again.
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On August 29 2009 02:56 Braintricks wrote:
This is so ridiculous. They should be allowed agents, and agents that are knowledgeable in the scene. Artosis: interested in a new career path?
When seeing your favorite team icon I actually had to click on it to know that it was woonjing, god its like the first I've ever seen.
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They should disband KeSPA and do a re-draft because it's blatantly obvious the current system is absolutely terrible.
Lol at the way this looks in the sidebar:
[News] go.go FAILS...
..so harsh!
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Osaka27149 Posts
On August 29 2009 10:09 Aegraen wrote:
What I wouldn't give for a system similar to all professional sports in which you go to college play the sport, get your degree and then get drafted onto a team. That should be the model they follow.
Um... 95% of MLB players don't go to college, 99% of NHL players don't go, and NBA players go for ONE SEMESTER to fill the mandatory year. Only in football do students generally stay 4 years, and even then it isn't mandatory.
Basically you don't know what you are talking about. Again.
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Did someone change the thread title so it cuts off at go.go FAILS?
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On August 29 2009 13:28 Manifesto7 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 29 2009 10:09 Aegraen wrote:
What I wouldn't give for a system similar to all professional sports in which you go to college play the sport, get your degree and then get drafted onto a team. That should be the model they follow. Um... 95% of MLB players don't go to college, 99% of NHL players don't go, and NBA players go for ONE SEMESTER to fill the mandatory year. Only in football do students generally stay 4 years, and even then it isn't mandatory. Basically you don't know what you are talking about. Again.
I will concede I should have been more precise. Yes, Hockey doesn't, and many NBA players come out of College. College Basketball is huge and most of the draftees are actually college players. Of course the top 5 always has at least one HS player, but that is not indicative of the draft at all. You're also dead wrong on MLB.
Go through this, you will see at least 60% of the players drafted are collegiate players.
http://www.mymlbdraft.com/2008/
Go through all the years yourself. Check it.
I'll make it easy, just a sample:
Top 30 from 2008 Draft:
Collegiate - 24
High School - 6
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Osaka27149 Posts
Actually there are zero HS basketball draftees, since they all have to wait until they are 19 now. That is why they attend one year of university (or play oveseas). The vast majority of NBA draftees leave before graduating.
And yes, Americans go through college for MLB, but after taking that 60% of the draft, please add the number of players that are signed outside America.
Approximately 40 percent of the players in organized baseball were born outside the United States. Most of those players sign during the summer when they are 16 years old, a signing bonanza that begins annually on July 2. - from SI
My 95% may be an exageration, but if only 60% of the draft went to college (and no number on how many actually graduate, only 40% of NFL players graduate), and the draft only makes up 60% of the players, that makes a minority.
Again, you don't know what you are talking about. You argue through google, not through knowledge.
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On August 29 2009 14:39 Manifesto7 wrote:Actually there are zero HS basketball draftees, since they all have to wait until they are 19 now. That is why they attend one year of university (or play oveseas). The vast majority of NBA draftees leave before graduating. And yes, Americans go through college for MLB, but after taking that 60% of the draft, please add the number of players that are signed outside America. Show nested quote +Approximately 40 percent of the players in organized baseball were born outside the United States. Most of those players sign during the summer when they are 16 years old, a signing bonanza that begins annually on July 2. - from SI My 95% may be an exageration, but if only 60% of the draft went to college (and no number on how many actually graduate, only 40% of NFL players graduate), and the draft only makes up 60% of the players, that makes a minority. Again, you don't know what you are talking about. You argue through google, not through knowledge.
Yes, I was talking prior to the new rule inception.
http://www.nba.com/history/draft_round1_2000s.html
Obviously you keep saying I have no clue what I'm talking about, when it is the opposite. The results of the drafts are right there! Secondly, many players who go to college to play, don't get drafted, but they get a free college education because of the sport. You don't think that would foster and encourage number one:
- A more competitive environment (More incentives, larger player base, etc.)
- A more positive outlook on the whole of the Sport
Every professional sport has a collegiate athletics program. Does everyone who goes to school for these sports get drafted and complete college? Certainly not everyone. Do a great percentage? Yes, of course. Do those who don't get drafted, get something out of the sport? Hell yes, an education.
Only a baffoon would not support the inception of SC as a college sport into their programs. What reasons do you have to be against this? Are you arguing purely based on you thinking, I think every single player in every sport that has a collegiate program has a degree? Jesus christ, I'm not sure what I said to give you that impression.
Yeah, those players who sign outside the US? You know what their living conditions are like? Even a 10,000$ contract is like hitting the jackpot. Ever read up on Alex Rodriguez and how he grew up? Many Dominican Republic players, Curacao, etc. grew up very impoverished. It's a betterment to their situation.
Obviously, I would be talking about first world countries.....where the luxuries of an Education can be sought and obtained.
A rundown:
I presented a case because of the success of other professional sports introducing the players into the collegiate life and aspect before going pro (Not all, of course, but the vast majority), into the E-Sports / SC realm and it received harsh criticism, possibly not on the merit, but on some misguided attempt to marginalize me by seeking to disprove whatever "number" he thought I came up with. Look, we can stop arguing semantics, I will lay out the draft figures right in front of you if you want to continue, but seriously are you, or are you not opposed to collegiate SC programs for the entry way into the sport like every other major sport?
PS. I happen to know from personal experience also, as I could have gone on to college with a scholarship to play Baseball, but I was an idiot and decided not to and I was in an area with the best teams in the Country and knew many of the players (Tampa Catholic, etc.). Everyone was focused on playing college baseball number one for the experience and number two as a jumping stone to the minors. Of course there are exceptions, but you're talking about the best 5% in the country.
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what odds would someone lay me on sc becoming a collegiate sport in korea? 1000-1?
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Osaka27149 Posts
Are you arguing purely based on you thinking, I think every single player in every sport that has a collegiate program has a degree? Jesus christ, I'm not sure what I said to give you that impression.
What I wouldn't give for a system similar to all professional sports in which you go to college play the sport, get your degree and then get drafted onto a team. That should be the model they follow.
Probably your own words.
I suggest you look at Sumo or Tennis, which are aligned much more closely with SC than team sports, and examine how those sports operate compared to professional SC. That will give you a much clearer picture into how things operate in parallel sports.
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Osaka27149 Posts
On August 29 2009 15:11 benjammin wrote:
what odds would someone lay me on sc becoming a collegiate sport in korea? 1000-1?
There are progamer programs already in some Korean universities. However, look at Tennis as an example. There are collegiate tennis players, but the vast majority left school to pursue tennis full time. The most successful tennis players are not the ones who finished college.
What Aegeran fails to understand is that while university is great, AS A PROFESSIONAL you will get better results in an intensive environment such as tennis academies or progaming houses. The top players are the best because they are in the field, not because they go to college.
If you just want to be in a club and go to university, that is one thing. If you want to be a champion, it is not the best environment. That is why people are against his argument.
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On August 29 2009 15:17 Manifesto7 wrote:Show nested quote +Are you arguing purely based on you thinking, I think every single player in every sport that has a collegiate program has a degree? Jesus christ, I'm not sure what I said to give you that impression. Show nested quote +What I wouldn't give for a system similar to all professional sports in which you go to college play the sport, get your degree and then get drafted onto a team. That should be the model they follow. Probably your own words.
lol so pwned,... again and again, time after time. puts a smile on my face.
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The difference between SC and NBA/MLB/NFL is that players are fully capable of peaking in SC in their late teens (Flash, JD, Bisu are the best examples), and in fact virtually every elite player is under age 21 right now. This is similar to sports like Manifesto's example - women's tennis, in which top players also don't go to college.
A large part of the reason why athletes go to college in the USA is because the ages simply happen to line up pretty well. Even LeBron and Dwight Howard (probably the best first seasons for high school players ... also Amare) were merely very good players their first season, nothing like say what Flash was at 15 or Jaedong at 17.
Yes, there are rules now for the NBA in terms of draft age (and there's always been a rule in the NFL) but it's not really the biggest hindrance. The reason why a lower proportion of baseball and hockey players go to college is because while an 18 year old can't play in the MLB, they are fully capable of playing A-ball, and similar examples apply to the NHL.
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On August 29 2009 11:44 errol1001 wrote:
You might not make 150k straight out of college, but that doesn't matter.
You could make that much towards the end of your career. You lose those years, the ones at the end of your career. Not the ones at the start.
It wouldn't matter if was all there was to it. But starting your career later is going to hurt your career.
This is what I was going to say.
As much as I don't like go.go for his bm, I feel bad for him potentially losing his ability to be a progamer because of his parents.
Instead of allowing players freedom, FA puts intense pressure on players with the threat of having no team.
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On August 29 2009 18:56 Vivi57 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 29 2009 11:44 errol1001 wrote:
You might not make 150k straight out of college, but that doesn't matter.
You could make that much towards the end of your career. You lose those years, the ones at the end of your career. Not the ones at the start.
It wouldn't matter if was all there was to it. But starting your career later is going to hurt your career. This is what I was going to say. As much as I don't like go.go for his bm, I feel bad for him potentially losing his ability to be a progamer because of his parents. Instead of allowing players freedom, FA puts intense pressure on players with the threat of having no team.
Agreed. Being a progamer is hard enough since you're pretty much throwing away your future, especially if you're not a known player. Kespa really has to stop throwing its weight around like this, it's so obnoxious and isn't helpful to e-sports at all =/
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United States4796 Posts
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pmed him. it's because the image from the interview wasn't as funny as the one on the front page, but fomos must have changed the image+ Show Spoiler + to hyuk since he won masters and has a winner's interview.
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konadora
Singapore66163 Posts
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Korea (South)922 Posts
.......most of these players that are fucking up in FA are over 18, they should decide for themselves, what the fuck
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United States47024 Posts
On August 29 2009 23:51 AltaiR_ wrote:
.......most of these players that are fucking up in FA are over 18, they should decide for themselves, what the fuck
Different cultures have different ideas of the legal age. to be independent. It's not like one way is more correct than the other.
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On August 29 2009 23:59 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On August 29 2009 23:51 AltaiR_ wrote:
.......most of these players that are fucking up in FA are over 18, they should decide for themselves, what the fuck Different cultures have different ideas of the legal age. to be independent. It's not like one way is more correct than the other.
When people are getting robbed by greedy managers it becomes incorrect.
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On August 30 2009 00:07 Boblion wrote:Show nested quote +On August 29 2009 23:59 TheYango wrote:On August 29 2009 23:51 AltaiR_ wrote:
.......most of these players that are fucking up in FA are over 18, they should decide for themselves, what the fuck Different cultures have different ideas of the legal age. to be independent. It's not like one way is more correct than the other. When people are getting robbed by greedy managers it becomes incorrect.
Yeah, I'm not a fan of the American system either but what can you do?
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