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Thoughts on God etc. - Page 6

Blogs > D4EMON
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PH
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
United States6173 Posts
May 15 2009 21:59 GMT
#101
On May 15 2009 22:29 ManBearPig wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 15 2009 18:44 PH wrote:
On May 15 2009 11:54 DeathSpank wrote:
Once again you don't know shit about God. If he does exist we certainly don't know his designs and to say that he is evil because there is evil in the world is retarded. If you were to make a universe wouldn't you put evil in it? I think it would be boring as shit without a little tragedy. [german accent]VVWE KNOW NOTHING![/german accent] Just because humanity has created a depiction of God does not make that depiction accurate. you're all silly.

I hate this point of view...throwing words around about "god's plan"...that is a horrible circular argument that defeats itself.

On May 15 2009 13:46 Salv wrote:
On May 15 2009 04:37 DreaM)XeRO wrote:
God doesnt interact in my daily life.
God doesn't help nor does he hurt me.
Therefore :
1) There is no God
2) God does not take part in my daily life




I rather like this point of view. Regardless of whether there is a God or not, everything that happens to me has a logical explanation and reason. I do not pray, I do not worship, I simply live the life I was given. I haven't witnessed or been apart of any miracles or divine interactions, so even if there were, I feel no connection to God whatsoever.

I've never truly understood why some believe you must believe in God, or accept some form of religion to be admitted into heaven. I did not choose to be born, to be a living person, it simply happened, I had no choice in that. I don't really understand the rationale of a God who would create life and then demand that said life acts according to it's rules, or be eternally punished.

I was talking to a friend of mine, who is Christian, and I was curiously asking that if I didn't believe in a God, yet lived my life as a 'good' person by today's ethical standards, would I be going to hell or heaven; assuming those were the only options. He replied hell, because as he said, I didn't seek out religion and seek out truth about God, therefore I was deserving of eternal pain and sadness. I had to laugh because I found this ridiculous. I wasn't given a choice of being born, I was born and I've been living my life. As I said, personally I feel no connection to God if there is one, and why should I? Does that make me deserving of hell? If someone could explain this I would appreciate it.

I've repeated this like three times in this thread, but there's a reason why that view doesn't hold...and that is that the effects a god entity would have on the universe wouldn't necessarily be immediately apparent, or potentially even apparent at all.

It's impossible to conclude for sure until our knowledge of the natural world (or physicalism), is complete. That's quite a ways off.

Beyond that, for instance, something along the lines of the Big Bang is I think the most popular theory on the formation of the universe. Any credible scientist will immediately admit that what happened before the Big Bang is outside the realm of science. The sciences are all empirical disciplines. They cannot apply to something that cannot be somehow observed, immediately or otherwise.

A god entity, by definition, is a being above and/or beyond the physical. If you accept this definition of a god, then you have to work with that in disproving or proving one.

So...because because our picture of the natural world is incomplete and by premise, our understanding of the supernatural cannot be completed, you can neither prove nor disprove the existence or the effects of a god like being in such a way.


If you mean to say that one can make a sensible, clear-cut division between metaphysics and science I have to disagree. Science is filled with metaphysical assumptions. Saying that science is only concerned with the empirical and doesn't have anything to do theorizing at a higher level is quite naive.
Oh and I would just like to say that the 'you can't prove or disprove god's existence' argument is often used in a kind of ignorant way. Strictly speaking it is, of course, very true, but you can't just ignore the aspect of probability. You can say exactly the same thing about ANYTHING. Even if you can't disprove god's existence, you can still dismiss it because it does not compute with current scientific views of the universe and it does a worse job at explaining everything.

I didn't say that a clear cut division can be made between the phenomenal and physical right now. All I said was that our understanding of the "supernatural" is not capable of being explained empirically, and that our understanding of the "natural" is far from being complete.

There's a difference between phenomenalism and metaphysics, btw, though. They don't mean the same thing, and they don't entail each other necessarily. Phenomenalism is basically things that cannot be reduced physically. Metaphysics refers somewhat loosely to what is first, or origin. Of course science seeks to answer those questions, but again, they are bound by the physical universe...the realm of material objects.

The probability of a god existing or not existing is irrelevant when your understanding of the physical world is far from being complete. It's arrogant to assume that we're at a point where we can make such a call, I think. Furthermore, people who like to jump the gun and make such claims are also generally the full-on physicalist/reductionist types...whom I wholeheartedly disagree with.

Anyway, science is constantly reinventing itself, correcting itself, adding onto itself, pruning off dated hypotheses, etc. That is one thing that science is good at...it's always improving, and it's humble: it'll change when it comes across new data. Science, as it is now, cannot make any absolute claims on anything. All studies and papers and whatever never make a definitive claim...they only speak of the likelihood, the probability, the existence of or the lack of a strong correlation, etc.

However...even then, I think thinking about a god on those terms is getting waaay ahead of ourselves. Before that, one would have to put into question the phenomenal aspect of the universe to begin with...but once again, science won't answer that question. Look to philosophy for that.
Hello
Folca
Profile Blog Joined October 2006
2235 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-05-15 22:16:02
May 15 2009 22:15 GMT
#102
It really all comes down to faith.
Believe him, don't believe him.
Actually "It", because its not human.
Dea : one time when he was playing vs the comps he asked me "how do I make that flying unit that makes the other stuff invisible" and I reply "ur playing terran zomg"
Railxp
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
Hong Kong1313 Posts
May 15 2009 22:24 GMT
#103
discussion seems to have drifted away from original point. I believe that OP was talking more about the concept of a Christian God, rather than Intelligent Design?

Existence of the Christian God, as according to the Bible, is rather easy to disproof, since there are so many holes/contradictions in the bible already. And the whole world created in 7 days ect. is waaay to specific to have any proof to support it.

Intelligent Design is a different matter. And as PH said, you cant prove/disprove it with empirical evidence.

One thing is for sure though, if you are using the scientific method as an approach to the theory of God, you cannot claim that any god exists. And the scientific methodology is the most surefire way to reach the truth. It might take a long time to find new evidence ect, and is constantly changing based on new information, but for sure it gets you there.
~\(。◕‿‿◕。)/~,,,,,,,,>
PH
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
United States6173 Posts
May 15 2009 22:51 GMT
#104
I'm an agnostic, so I wouldn't argue directly for the existence of the Christian God...haha.

I do, however, do believe there is a phenomenal (or supernatural or whatever) aspect to our universe, and that it can't be reduced to the purely physical.
Hello
Firereaver
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
India1701 Posts
October 31 2010 17:52 GMT
#105
On May 16 2009 07:51 PH wrote:
I'm an agnostic, so I wouldn't argue directly for the existence of the Christian God...haha.

I do, however, do believe there is a phenomenal (or supernatural or whatever) aspect to our universe, and that it can't be reduced to the purely physical.

Please look up agnostic, The meaning. You classify yourself as one and yet believe in something unquantifiable(or supernatural, as you put it.)
"They drone drone drone , me win" - JangMinChul(Iron/oGsMC)
Archas
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States6531 Posts
October 31 2010 17:57 GMT
#106
On November 01 2010 02:52 Firereaver wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 16 2009 07:51 PH wrote:
I'm an agnostic, so I wouldn't argue directly for the existence of the Christian God...haha.

I do, however, do believe there is a phenomenal (or supernatural or whatever) aspect to our universe, and that it can't be reduced to the purely physical.

Please look up agnostic, The meaning. You classify yourself as one and yet believe in something unquantifiable(or supernatural, as you put it.)

Dude, that comment you replied to was made a year and a half ago. Please look at the date a post / topic was made before replying. Pointless necros can get annoying. =(

Also, the edited OP confuses me, but I digress.
The room is ripe with the stench of bitches!
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