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I just have a few questions about stuff I read in the manual and in online guides.
1) I read you can play online and make 6 characters [of course you will need to re-roll many times to get good stats] but then the team will have better stats then the normal NPC's that will join the party. Should I do this or should I play the game normally in single player because they say the NPC's in single player have more personality and character and all the alignment stuff etc.
2) If I play normally, I am going to make myself a fighter -human etc. They say Imeon since she/he has a high INT then its a good ideal to dual class him into a Mage after hes gone up 2-3 levels so you can put all the experience or points [or something] into his locate/disarm trap ability because they say stealing and stealth and all that other stuff not as important and then you have a thief with mage powers and his attack is weak. Is this advisable? If I don't dual class him then is their any weapons that don't rely on strength? He does have a good DEX stat so wouldn't he be better with bows?
2b) This is related to the above question. Is Dual/Classing or Multi classing worth it? Also, I want to enjoy the game so going online and seeing the alignment of certain NPC's does that take away the fun of the game? Is their some quests that have amazing rewards but the quests are kinda hidden or hard to get that I would need a guide to figure out how to actually get the quest in the first place [not how to solve it]
2c) Someone mention [mindcrime] about AI abuse like summoning abuse and invisibility/back stab abuse. IN the expansion you can only go invisible when their is a shadow and its affect by shadows. Does this effect these strategies? What exactly is Summoning abuse. I do not priests and Mages can summon. Thanks.
3) What's with this AI ON/OFF thing? Should I just always keep the AI off and whenever I see an enemy just pause the game and issue commands or having the AI on for my NPC Companions will that affect game play at all. I know they might attack and I guess they choose their own spells to use when casting? Whats advisable? If every round is 6 seconds I don't think thats not enough time to issue commands to 6 different characters unless you pause and un-pause every 6 seconds. For those who have played the game...is leaving the AI on and letting them attack and do their thing enough? Is it enough for the warriors but do I need to control the mages etc
Note: I try installing EASY-Tutu but didn't have enough disk space. I am going to play Balder's Gate [I have the expansion installed].
4) I noticed in the expansion that if someone does an area effect spell that you can kinda dodge it. Like if the fireball hits you but it didn't expload in the Original you will get hit but in expansion you can kinda run out of it. Even if you do get hit when trying to run out ,does the computer will still roll a saving throw for you? [ie if saving roll good then in fireball attack dmg is 1/2]
Thank you...
I will see the answers when I come home from work @ 4am lol
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United States12607 Posts
1) I always favored soloing after my first playthrough, but I think that you're better off going with the in-game NPCs than powergaming and making your own uber-party by creating all the characters in multiplayer.
First off, the NPCs are pretty good. Some suck but some are very solid (esp in BG2 where different NPCs have special powerful armor or weapons they can wield). If you're careful about who you admit into your party, you can get a very powerful group without having to create all of your party members from scratch.
Most importantly though, especially in BG2 (or BG1 with the NPC Project) the NPCs really add a lot of plot and interaction to the game. Most of the BG2 and some of the BG1 NPCs have custom quests, and in BG2 you can start romances with several of the characters. Then there's also the issue of alignment and banter, which, since I was never into literal role-playing, I wasn't a big fan of but I will admit adds something to the game. It's kind of cool to be an evil character and have to go around finding similarly mischievous NPCs.
One other thing to consider is that, as long as you meet the NPCs while you are low level, you will get to pick their abilities and skills as they level up (making NPCs pretty much as good as special-made characters). There are also mods to set up the game so that if you're a high-level character you will get to "level up" NPCs when you meet them (rather than the game default, which is to assign the NPCs skills automatically - often sucky ones).
2) I think you're confusing something here. Imoen is the first NPC you meet in the game and she is your childhood companion, a fighter. You will create your own character with his/her own name. Your class is the most important choice you will make, so think about it carefully. If you are playing vanilla BG1 (though you should really research BG1Tutu or BGT if you have BG2/TotSC) then fighters are very powerful. I think magic-users are more fun, though. There's more of a tactical element than just hack-and-slash. If you're playing with BG2 rules and classes, by far the cheesiest, most powerful character you can create is the Kensai dualed to Mage. Read up on that one, it's basically imba. Thieves are powerful too, but mostly for stealth and backstab damage. Traps are pretty insignificant once you have a good amount of HP/high saves and locks can always be bashed in, so those skills are not very important.
2b. Multi-classing is not worth it. Your options are limited and, unlike dual-classing, your XP will be SPLIT between your levels so you will level faster (and have a lower max level when you hit the XP cap). Multi-classed characters are always weaker than single-classed or dual-classed characters, especially when you have party members to help out.
Dual-classing is definitely something to consider. It is only possible if you are human, and your attributes must satisfy BOTH of your classes. The way it works is you progress in your first (primary) class and then whenever you feel like, you can dual-class into your secondary class. At that point, your primary class becomes dormant and you start out at level 0 in your new class. You lose all of your old class's abilities and skills. The only thing you keep is your HP. Then, once your secondary class PASSES your primary class in levels, you regain the skills of both classes. At that point you are godly, if you progressed far at all in your first class. Fighter into mage is very popular for dual-classing because you will retain the fighter's high HP while you level up your mage, and then once your mage level surpasses your fighter level you will be able to buff yourself and hack and slash everything into oblivion.
Dual-classing is very difficult if you are soloing because once you select your secondary and send your primary class abilities into hibernation, you will be very weak. You have to plan heavily and select low-level areas and quests that will help you level fast once you dual-class. But if you have a party, your party can pick up the slack for you and get XP while you level.
I have to go but I will write more later....I love this series as you can tell and there are some things I neglected so I will re-cover those areas. For now there is only one thing I have to say:
INSTALL TUTU
Higher resolution, better rules, less bugs, you can import your character from BG1 into BG2, more classes, etc. etc. etc. DO IT NOW
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United States24698 Posts
If you are building the new camaro at 4am then I'm not getting one lol
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On September 11 2008 06:39 jwd241224 wrote:
Multi-classed characters are always weaker than single-classed or dual-classed characters, especially when you have party members to help out.
That's simply not true.
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2c) Stealth/hide in shadows is affected by the level of darkness/sunlight but I can't tell you how its calculated. If your skill is high enough, you can hide in broad daylight (though not within the vision of hostiles).
In bg1, if you have multiple mages and/or clerics and/or multiple wands of monster summoning, you can summon ungodly numbers of minions. Bioware disliked this enough that they limited (in most cases) the number of summons allowable in bg2 to 5.
3)Scripts, in general, aren't as effective as issuing commands yourself.
4) If you're within the spell's area of effect, you will be affected by it and get a saving throw if there is one for said spell.
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1. Better in SP since you get dialogues and everything else belonging to the other characters. Even though BG1 doesn't have that many dialogues between the characters, I still like it more than creating all a la Icewind Dale.
2. Imoen? SHE SHE SHE. Do as you like, there are no set rules of what you should do with your party members. there are advantages to having a high level thief aswell, traps are really dangerous in this game and you need someone with hi level disarm.
2b. I don't think it's worth it in BG1 (I'm not even sure both dual and multiclassing is possible there?) since the level cap is pretty low and you need those higher levels to be effective. In BG2 however, both dual and multiclassing can be worth it. I prefer to play around with such things on my other party members though since some of them are naturally dual or multiclassed.
2c. ???
3. AI on and assign behaviour in settings if you are lazy, this works if you are a lot more powerful than your opponents, but your party members tend to favor certain spells and skills in the least effective way so at times you have to turn it off. When you turn it off you have to do everything on every character for yourself which makes you have to pause a lot. Preference.
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United States12607 Posts
On September 11 2008 06:49 Mindcrime wrote:Show nested quote +On September 11 2008 06:39 jwd241224 wrote:
Multi-classed characters are always weaker than single-classed or dual-classed characters, especially when you have party members to help out. That's simply not true.
Care to explain, or is it too blindingly obvious?
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Came into this thread and started reading the questions thinking *sigh* time to clear a few things up :D, but my fellow bg1 lovers have already really answered most of it.
How can you confuse imoen for a he tho =(, She's such an awesome character.
"Heya, it's just me, imoen"
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On September 11 2008 07:29 jwd241224 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 11 2008 06:49 Mindcrime wrote:On September 11 2008 06:39 jwd241224 wrote:
Multi-classed characters are always weaker than single-classed or dual-classed characters, especially when you have party members to help out. That's simply not true. Care to explain, or is it too blindingly obvious?
It should be blindingly obvious.
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I confused Imoen for a He cause I haven't even started playing it yet.
As for those people talking about TuTu. I am using my old comp [and I eve mentioned somewhere in my post] that I don't have enough room to install it. I did a Full install of BG1 and ToTSC and I did a recommdend install of BG2 [recommended is required to install TuTu] and the minimun space for Tutu was 1.1 GB and I only had 400 Mb [i had deleted everything on that 4gb harddrive lol]
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Also I have more questions...
Just so people know I will start playing the game today when I wake up.
1)It was mentioned about the benefit of dual-classing and about fighter into mage and if you got your fighter to a high level and then dual classed into a mage you would be powerful after your mage level surpassed your fighter level. What is a high level since the level cap in BG1 is like 7-9 or something like that so basically a level 4 fighter dual classing into a mage and once he reaches level 9 he would be able to use abilities from both classes? Is level 4 considered high?
2) I can understand the benefit of mage + fighter but to be able to use his mage powers he won't be able to wear armor and can only use darts/slings/daggers so he would be weak without armor and if he wanted to attack he wouldn't have his mage abilities cause he wearing armor and using sword or whatever. So does that mean for every big battle you'd switch around his weapons whether you wanted him to use mage powers or fighter abilities?
3) I read about raising dead and stuff and if they have low constitution it affects the chance of a raise dead spell working so basically if i had some character or NPC with a low constitution and he died their is a chance the spell doesn't work. I understand that. Say his constitution was 10 and the chance of raise dead spell of working is 50%...does that mean working at all or each time. I mean could i cast 5 raise dead spells over and over till 1 worked [if i had memorized 5 raise dead spells lol]???
4) Say a NPC leaves my party or attacks me. IN the case he leaves cause my reputation too high [cause he evil] do i lose any equipment i put on him? Say I attack and kill him does he drop items and stuff and i get it all back
5) Say one of my character dies in a battle and it was luck I win in the end and i don't want to reload and stuff would this character drop all the stuff i equipped him with [i.e magical armor and maybe rings of protection] or is that stuff lost forever if he is dead?
Thank you everyone for all your help. I was kinda into RPG's before. I mean I always wanted to play them but never had the chance. I was really interested in the Star Wars role playing game and read the whole manual of it and like 2-3 other ones but I only had my brother/sister who never read anything and are not the type of people to role-play and think and if you make up a game [be a game master] they don't think about 'look' 'find' hide or using abilities and i never had the chance to join a group that meet up and play. I even used to read those books where you make a character and like things happen and their enemies and stuff and you roll dice or whatever and you have a sheet and item thing. Dungeon and Dragon had some books like that.
Anyways, so I think I will find RPG's fun 
Also for the person who asked its BG1 with ToTSC installed. It is not modded. I do not have enough room to install Tutu. However I am going to look for and try to install that mod where the NPC will be a low level so I can guide their abilities and spells.
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On September 11 2008 19:57 Yaqoob wrote:
1)It was mentioned about the benefit of dual-classing and about fighter into mage and if you got your fighter to a high level and then dual classed into a mage you would be powerful after your mage level surpassed your fighter level. What is a high level since the level cap in BG1 is like 7-9 or something like that so basically a level 4 fighter dual classing into a mage and once he reaches level 9 he would be able to use abilities from both classes? Is level 4 considered high?
Dual class sucks in Bg1 imo. Especially Warrior / mage because you need a lot of EXP to be efficient contrarily to a mage/priest who can be a support caster even at low level. Wait a bit and dual class him in Bg2. The ideal level to dual class him is when he wont get the warrior dice ( 10 faces dice ) of hp when leveling anymore but just some +3 hp or something like that. I dont remember the exact level but it happens near level 12 ( just save before leveling ). But you are using ToTSc so i dont know if the leveling rules with level > 12 are the same.
On September 11 2008 19:57 Yaqoob wrote:
2) I can understand the benefit of mage + fighter but to be able to use his mage powers he won't be able to wear armor and can only use darts/slings/daggers so he would be weak without armor and if he wanted to attack he wouldn't have his mage abilities cause he wearing armor and using sword or whatever. So does that mean for every big battle you'd switch around his weapons whether you wanted him to use mage powers or fighter abilities?
Yup. IF you are fighting crappy ennemies ( but several of them ) you dont really care of your position / weapons / armor. You char will have enough hp anyway. Just cast a zone spell then finish them with your weapons. Vs larger deadlier opponents, and "bosses" you will have to switch to ranged weapons. I think bow or crossbow are a good specialisation for a dual warrior/mage.
On September 11 2008 19:57 Yaqoob wrote:
3) I read about raising dead and stuff and if they have low constitution it affects the chance of a raise dead spell working so basically if i had some character or NPC with a low constitution and he died their is a chance the spell doesn't work. I understand that. Say his constitution was 10 and the chance of raise dead spell of working is 50%...does that mean working at all or each time. I mean could i cast 5 raise dead spells over and over till 1 worked [if i had memorized 5 raise dead spells lol]???
I'm not really sure because usually i just load when i lost a char but If i remember when the spell fails your character is gone for real :O.
On September 11 2008 19:57 Yaqoob wrote:
4) Say a NPC leaves my party or attacks me. IN the case he leaves cause my reputation too high [cause he evil] do i lose any equipment i put on him? Say I attack and kill him does he drop items and stuff and i get it all back
Yes you lose everything he wears or has on his bag  . If you attack him he will drop it. ( You can steal too ).
On September 11 2008 19:57 Yaqoob wrote:
5) Say one of my character dies in a battle and it was luck I win in the end and i don't want to reload and stuff would this character drop all the stuff i equipped him with [i.e magical armor and maybe rings of protection] or is that stuff lost forever if he is dead?
Nononono when one of your char dies it is like when you kill a monster, it will drop his items. Btw if your main character dies it is game over 
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Thank you for the fast replies. Anyways I installed some MOD's. I installed one that fixes the skill and abilities/proficiencies of some of the NPC's and another one that does alot of stuff like editing the sounds and portraits and fixing the inventory and adding boots so characters can move faster outside of battle + lowering NPC's levels when meeting them [I wonder if this Mod will affect the other one that edits the abilities + proficiencies of 6-7 of the NPC's.
It also gives Max HP every level up and makes learning spells easier. There was other things that make Baldur's Gate easier like removing evil reputation and other stuff but I feel that takes fun out of the game and didn't want to make the game totally different. I feel the HP thing and NPC' stuff will help me since I am very new to playing RPG's.
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On September 11 2008 20:54 Boblion wrote:
The ideal level to dual class him is when he wont get the warrior dice ( 10 faces dice ) of hp when leveling anymore but just some +3 hp or something like that. I dont remember the exact level but it happens near level 12 ( just save before leveling ). But you are using ToTSc so i dont know if the leveling rules with level > 12 are the same.
There's actually two schools of thought when it comes to dualing warriors. One says to dual at level 9, as that is the last level of d10 hit points, has a weapon proficiency point and allows you to get your abilities back rather quickly. The other school says to wait until level 13. Level 12 has a weapon proficiency point, but level 13 brings an extra 1/2 attack.
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I miss the days of Mplayer and original bg2 online =(
Was part of MDC, if anyone was around at that time, lemme know ;P
As for dualing, i always dual on 9. Main reason being it's far quicker to get skills back. Waiting for 13 for half an attack is kind of pointless imo.
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ok... this got me very interested in the game, where can I dl it ? Just from any torrent site or is there a special place ?
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On September 12 2008 01:09 Xeris wrote:
ok... this got me very interested in the game, where can I dl it ? Just from any torrent site or is there a special place ?
It isnt a freeware. I think you can dl it but it will be long ( Bg1 = 5 Cd + 1 Cd for expo, Bg2= 4 Cd + 1 Cd for expo ) + there lots of mods to DL ( at least Tutu ). Many hours of solo play . ( 100+ hours for BG1 + BG2 if you try to do all the quests as a beginner ? ).
You should try to buy it imo. Dunno where you can find it nowadays but it wont be expensive.
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edit: nvm, misread something
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... oh shit, and double posted :D
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I tried to buy BG1+ Expansion and went to 3 Computer Game shops and could not find it. I only was able to find BG2 + Expansion which I bought so I had to download BG1. Its about 4 GB download.
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I went to some website for it ... and it said: BG1 / BG2 ... then something called BG: Dark Alliance?? (what's that)... and then ofc the Icewind Dale 1 / 2 . Should I get all of them? O_O!
I've really been looking for cool RPG's to play (not online), and I really like the forgotten realms "world" so to speak, so ya, I"m pumped O_O!
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BG: Dark Alliance is a game for playstation
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On September 12 2008 06:42 FunFluffyBunny wrote:
BG: Dark Alliance is a game for playstation
It has nothing to do with real Baldur's Gate + it is crap :D
On September 12 2008 04:23 Xeris wrote:
I've really been looking for cool RPG's to play (not online), and I really like the forgotten realms "world" so to speak, so ya, I"m pumped O_O!
Take BG1 + expansion + BG2 + expansion. This is my favourite game and the best rpg i have ever played .
Icewindale is ok but storyline is very bad compared to BG. It is almost an hack'n'slash a la diablo.
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@Xeris:
Start with BG1+TotSC, then move on to BG2+ToB.
BG2 in particular is still one of the best games ever. BG1 is "worse" but still great, and it's the start of the whole story, so...
And use EasyTutu or BGT for playing BG1, it'll make it much more pleasant to play.
Playing through Baldur's Gate completely is something every gamer should do.
After that, you can decide:
Do you want another game like this, but with (much) more combat and less story/character interaction? Then go Icewind Dale 1+2.
Or do you want another game like this, but with (much) more story and character depth? Then go Planescape: Torment.
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On September 12 2008 07:02 0xDEADBEEF wrote:
BG2 in particular is still one of the best games ever. BG1 is "worse" but still great, and it's the start of the whole story, so...
Nub !
BG1 story and atmosphere is better ( imo ) + playing a level 1 wandering in unknown areas is just too awesome ( and being raped by kobolds :D )
But BG2 has better graphics, more interactions, spells and higher levels.
Start with BG1 because its storyline is just too cool + u can use all the BG2 improvments with TuTu mod.
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BG1's plot is much, much stronger than BG2's.
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s/awesome/random/ 
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so , is this widely available for download, or should I try to find a store that has them?
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If you are still deciding on classes I would reccomend dualling a fighter(especially a kensai) to a thief. I've never imported a BG1 char to BG2 but Kensai/Thief was my favorite playthrough of BG2/ToB. I love being able to backstab my way through difficult areas or just take out a mage before a fight. Also once you get use any item in Throne of Bhaal the primary setback of using kensai(no armor) disappears. That is probably hundreds of hours from where you are, however...
I always play with the AI turned off and turn on a lot of auto-pause settings (see enemy, spell cast, etc.) because I like to personally control what my companions do. I never noticed that about raising dead but I always played on one of the lower difficulty settings. I guess your other questions were already answered.
p.s. Kensai thief should not be dualled until bg2 similar to the kensai/mage
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Netherlands19135 Posts
Kensai mage is the only thing worth dualclassing imho (as main character)
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On September 12 2008 07:53 Nyovne wrote:
Kensai mage is the only thing worth dualclassing imho (as main character)
oO
Kensai / thief
Kensai / priest
Assassin/ warrior
Assassin / mage
Assassin / priest
Priest / mage
Are good.
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On September 12 2008 08:17 Boblion wrote:Show nested quote +On September 12 2008 07:53 Nyovne wrote:
Kensai mage is the only thing worth dualclassing imho (as main character) oO Kensai / thief Kensai / priest Assassin/ warrior Assassin / mage Assassin / priest Priest / mage Are good.
1. definitely
2. kensai cleric is noooo thx, but Kensai/druid and berserker/cleric are decent.
3. What's the point? 7x backstab? You don't get that until level 21 and if you wait for that, you're not going to have both classes active until late in the game.
4. Same as 3.
5. An assassin/cleric can do some interesting things if the dual is after uai, but again, you won't have both classes active until late in the game.
6. I can't think of a reason to dual instead of multi this.
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On September 12 2008 08:52 Mindcrime wrote:
1. definitely
2. kensai cleric is noooo thx, but Kensai/druid and berserker/cleric are decent.
3. What's the point? 7x backstab? You don't get that until level 21 and if you wait for that, you're not going to have both classes active until late in the game.
4. Same as 3.
5. An assassin/cleric can do some interesting things if the dual is after uai, but again, you won't have both classes active until late in the game.
6. I can't think of a reason to dual instead of multi this.
2. I forgot that Priest can only use mace and hammers . But i still think that priest buffs >>>> druid crap. Seriously why u want a Kensai / druid ? oO. Priest buffs are like the most imba thing in the game... I had a multi mage/priest for solo in BG1 and when buffed he could fight almost everything in the game in melee so i guess that a dual Kensai / priest would be complete ownage.
3. It isnt the best char and it has his own weakness but it isnt that bad. About the level issue i think it is the same problem for every kind of dual classes. They are designed to pwn in BG2 or even ToB
4. same
5. same
6. For solo play if you just want some low level heal / buff spells. But you are right there arent that much differences.
I just wanted to tell him that there are a few more useful combos . Kensai / mage is the most popular dual class but it isnt the only possible and efficient.
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On September 12 2008 09:09 Boblion wrote:Show nested quote +On September 12 2008 08:52 Mindcrime wrote:
1. definitely
2. kensai cleric is noooo thx, but Kensai/druid and berserker/cleric are decent.
3. What's the point? 7x backstab? You don't get that until level 21 and if you wait for that, you're not going to have both classes active until late in the game.
4. Same as 3.
5. An assassin/cleric can do some interesting things if the dual is after uai, but again, you won't have both classes active until late in the game.
6. I can't think of a reason to dual instead of multi this. 2. I forgot that Priest can only use mace and hammers . But i still think that priest buffs >>>> druid crap. Seriously why u want a Kensai / druid ? oO. Priest buffs are like the most imba thing in the game... I had a multi mage/priest for solo in BG1 and when buffed he could fight almost everything in the game in melee so i guess that a dual Kensai / priest would be complete ownage. 3. It isnt the best char and it has his own weakness but it isnt that bad. About the level issue i think it is the same problem for every kind of dual classes. They are designed to pwn in BG2 or even ToB 4. same 5. same 6. For solo play if you just want some low level heal / buff spells. But you are right there arent that much differences. I just wanted to tell him that there are a few more useful combos . Kensai / mage is the most popular dual class but it isnt the only possible and efficient.
2. A kensai/druid has access to iron skins. The best a kensai/cleric can do is cast barkskin and defensive harmony, but both of those spells are known to druids as well. A Kensai/druid can also make use of belm.
Given that clerics can cast righteous magic which totally outshines kai, I have to wonder why you would choose kensai over berserker? 3thac0/damage? I would much rather be able to wear armor and be immune to imprisonment thank you very much.
345. No, most dual-classes are worthwhile below 6million experience.
6. Multiclass cleric/mages actually get damn powerful. dual class? meh... If you dual at a low level, then you're effectively a gimped single class mage with a few pointless low level cleric spells. If you dual at a high level, you may as well have multi'd and not had to have gone through the inactive period.
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On September 12 2008 09:38 Mindcrime wrote:
2. A kensai/druid has access to iron skins. The best a kensai/cleric can do is cast barkskin and defensive harmony, but both of those spells are known to druids as well. A Kensai/druid can also make use of belm.
Given that clerics can cast righteous magic which totally outshines kai, I have to wonder why you would choose kensai over berserker? 3thac0/damage? I would much rather be able to wear armor and be immune to imprisonment thank you very much.
Because priests have many more buffs, which is really important especially if you like solo play. Protection againt evil, some strenght boosts and so on. The iron skin part is cool but i prefer to have more strength and a better thaco. Attack > defense ( imo ).
But i dont think we have to argue here, you prefer defensive chars and it is a matter of taste.
This kind of character is designed to always hit his opponent except if he rolls a 1 + dealing a max of damage ( high strengh buff is needed ).
+ belm sucks somewhat if i remember :D.
On September 12 2008 09:38 Mindcrime wrote:
345. No, most dual-classes are worthwhile below 6million experience.
Most ? you are contradicting yourself
Btw an assassin / priest is still worthwhile below 6million experience. It would be like .... an assassin ( you will have to buff him with another char ).
On September 12 2008 09:38 Mindcrime wrote:
6. Multiclass cleric/mages actually get damn powerful. dual class? meh... If you dual at a low level, then you're effectively a gimped single class mage with a few pointless low level cleric spells. If you dual at a high level, you may as well have multi'd and not had to have gone through the inactive period.
It is mostly for solo play, just to save you money and time when you want to heal + having some sucky invocs / buffs. A pure mage is better for a party and a multi mage / priest is also better as second caster and healer .
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On September 12 2008 11:46 Boblion wrote:Show nested quote +On September 12 2008 09:38 Mindcrime wrote:
2. A kensai/druid has access to iron skins. The best a kensai/cleric can do is cast barkskin and defensive harmony, but both of those spells are known to druids as well. A Kensai/druid can also make use of belm.
Given that clerics can cast righteous magic which totally outshines kai, I have to wonder why you would choose kensai over berserker? 3thac0/damage? I would much rather be able to wear armor and be immune to imprisonment thank you very much.
Because priests have many more buffs, which is really important especially if you like solo play. Protection againt evil, some strenght boosts and so on. The iron skin part is cool but i prefer to have more strength and a better thaco. Attack > defense ( imo ). But i dont think we have to argue here, you prefer defensive chars and it is a matter of taste. This kind of character is designed to always hit his opponent except if he rolls a 1 + dealing a max of damage ( high strengh buff is needed ).
I don't prefer defensive characters. I prefer efficient characters. And that is why, as far as warrior-clerics go, I'll take a ranger/cleric multi over any form of fighter/cleric.
+ belm sucks somewhat if i remember :D.
Belm is arguably the best offhand weapon in the game. Only two others really compare to it, and they both have distinct disadvantages.
Show nested quote +On September 12 2008 09:38 Mindcrime wrote:
345. No, most dual-classes are worthwhile below 6million experience.
Most ? you are contradicting yourself Btw an assassin / priest is still worthwhile below 6million experience. It would be like .... an assassin ( you will have to buff him with another char ).
Perhaps not most of the ones that you listed, but yes, most.
It would be an assassin.... and then a gimpy cleric in late soa.
It is mostly for solo play, just to save you money and time when you want to heal + having some sucky invocs / buffs. A pure mage is better for a party and a multi mage / priest is also better as second caster and healer .
For soloing I will take a specialist mage (conjurer or wild mage preferably) or sorcerer over a weak cleric/mage dual any day. If your solo mage is getting hit and needs low level cleric spells to heal, you're doing something wrong.
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On September 12 2008 12:31 Mindcrime wrote:
I don't prefer defensive characters. I prefer efficient characters.
25 @ strenght = gg thx i hit everytime and i have a maximum of damage. You prefer to have iron skins. It is your choice. But dont say that a kensai / priest isnt an efficient character please. Btw why a ranger / priest would be better than a warrior / priest ?
On September 12 2008 12:31 Mindcrime wrote:
Belm is arguably the best offhand weapon in the game. Only two others really compare to it, and they both have distinct disadvantages.
+2 weapons always sucked in my book ( i understand it is a good weapon for early / mid BG2 ) but if you prefer an extra attack it is ok. Nevertheless i really think that Belm is complete trash when your are playing ToB.
On September 12 2008 09:38 Mindcrime wrote:
Perhaps not most of the ones that you listed, but yes, most.
List more so.
Bard / ranger ? xD
On September 12 2008 09:38 Mindcrime wrote:
It would be an assassin.... and then a gimpy cleric in late soa.
It would be an assassin with 25 @ strenght ( +14 damage, a really good thaco and a few more nice bonuses ) i think he would probably "one shot" almost everything in the game. Definitly a tricky character to play but fun.
On September 12 2008 09:38 Mindcrime wrote:
For soloing I will take a specialist mage (conjurer or wild mage preferably) or sorcerer over a weak cleric/mage dual any day. If your solo mage is getting hit and needs low level cleric spells to heal, you're doing something wrong.
Have you ever solo-ed a level 1 mage in BG1 ?
I guess you like the save / load routine. It is the hardest char to solo in BG1 with bard-crap.
A dual would make the beginning much more easier but i'm fair and i will agree with you a pure mage is definitly better on the long term.
Moreover there is always a difficult moment ( when you will switch back to mage ) so i would prefer to take a multi priest / mage over any other kind of caster if i want to solo.
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On September 12 2008 13:07 Boblion wrote:Show nested quote +On September 12 2008 12:31 Mindcrime wrote:
I don't prefer defensive characters. I prefer efficient characters.
25 @ strenght = gg thx i hit everytime and i have a maximum of damage. You prefer to have iron skins. It is your choice. But dont say that a kensai / priest isnt an efficient character please.
I prefer to have both 25str, max damage and iron skins. Ranger/cleric ftw
+2 weapons always sucked in my book ( i understand it is a good weapon for early / mid BG2 ) but if you prefer an extra attack it is ok. Nevertheless i really think that Belm is complete trash when your are playing ToB.
You do realize where that extra attack goes, right?
List more so.
Bard / ranger ? xD
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swashbuckler/fighter
swashbuckler/mage
swashbuckler/cleric
berserker/druid
berserker/mage
berserker/cleric
wizard slayer/thief
kensai/druid
ranger/cleric
stalker/cleric (soa, but not stock tob)
archer/cleric (soa, but not stock tob)
It would be an assassin with 25 @ strenght ( +14 damage, a really good thaco and a few more nice bonuses ) i think he would probably "one shot" almost everything in the game. Definitly a tricky character to play but fun.
...not without the use of potions or 6million exp.
Have you ever solo-ed a level 1 mage in BG1 ?
I guess you like the save / load routine. It is the hardest char to solo in BG1 with bard-crap.
A dual would make the beginning much more easier but i'm fair and i will agree with you a pure mage is definitly better on the long term.
Algernon's cloak ftw.
EDIT: Ranger/clerics, due to a quirk in the Infinity Engine, get full access to both cleric spells and druid spells.
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There are quite a few things in the game that are immune to backstab btw.... such as all the dragons.
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Yeah that did become a bit of a problem in ToB. But by then my party was powerful enough to handle anything.
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Don't bother power gaming imo, BG1 and BG2 are easy games anyway, even on highest difficulty, play with the normal NPCs and play a main char that you like. (The games are awsome though, a higher focus on roleplaying and story telling than most games in the genre)
-----Also there are a TON of mods for both games, several of them very VERY good. Check them out before you start and get what you think you will enjoy.-----
The above can't be stessed enough.
Also try to install all games with all expansions and mods at once (If possible) and just play through the ENTIRE saga. There are SO many thing to do and to find, it'll keep you occupied
IF you are going for maximum power (perhaps in order to solo with a difficulty increase mod installed) there are a few really good (and easy to find guides) on the net.
I doubt anything beats level
12 kensai, dual into mage.
or level 12 ranger, dual into cleric.
You get so many defensive spells that you in raw tanking power are_better_ than a dwarven berzerker + your damage output is better than anything, especially in the kensai/mage case.
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It's level 13 kensai or level 9 depending on if u want extra 1/2 attack/round and are patient, not level 12
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On September 12 2008 13:30 Mindcrime wrote:
I prefer to have both 25str, max damage and iron skins. Ranger/cleric ftw
At which level you have everything ? + you dont get the max of specialisations in weapons right ?
On September 12 2008 13:30 Mindcrime wrote:
You do realize where that extra attack goes, right?
? the extra attack is for the main weapon ?
On September 12 2008 13:30 Mindcrime wrote:
berserker/mage
A Kensai / mage is like 20x better.
On September 12 2008 13:30 Mindcrime wrote:
swashbuckler/fighter
swashbuckler/mage
swashbuckler/cleric
berserker/druid
berserker/cleric
wizard slayer/thief
kensai/druid
ranger/cleric
stalker/cleric (soa, but not stock tob)
archer/cleric (soa, but not stock tob)
Ok
But why you dont want the two last combos in tob ?
On September 12 2008 13:30 Mindcrime wrote:
...not without the use of potions or 6million exp.
18 Strength + tome of force + Evil Baal quests = 21 at strenght + draw upon holy might ( + potions) = 25. However you need to be level 12 priest to get to 25 strength without using potions so you right it is for late game. But you can get a good strengh 23 / 24 earlier.
+ you cant get to 25 strength with potions only anyway
On September 12 2008 13:30 Mindcrime wrote:
How do you Algernon's cloak ftw.
I played a multi mage/priest ( which is like 1000X better for solo ) and even with the algernoon trick the beginning is a pain in the ass. + u have to kill poor Algernoon
On September 12 2008 13:30 Mindcrime wrote:
EDIT: Ranger/clerics, due to a quirk in the Infinity Engine, get full access to both cleric spells and druid spells.
Thanks for the info i didnt know it.
After this argument i want to solo with an Assassin / Cleric. Should i install Tutu again ? :p
P.S: i forget the backstab immunes. I just read some stuff about dual class ( i have to admit that i never really tried them at high level and they seem quite gay to "schedule" ).
When your main class is inactive it means that you cant use spells and abilities right ? That would ruin all my therorycrafted assassin / X dual classes for solo :O
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When you dual, you lose all skills in your original class until your newly dualed class is one level higher than your original. Then you got them all back and the fun starts
Also Swashbuckler/Fighters are immense :D
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On September 12 2008 17:34 KlaCkoN wrote:
Don't bother power gaming imo, BG1 and BG2 are easy games anyway, even on highest difficulty
I think BG1 is not that easy, especially not if you haven't played it before yet and thus don't know when you stumble into a tough area. I still remember the joy of the first ankheg and vampire wolf encounter (in the latter case I didn't even have magical weapons yet). 
Of course you'll be able to get through the game anyway, but a good indication about how hard it is is the number of reloads you do.
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On September 12 2008 20:44 Boblion wrote:Show nested quote +On September 12 2008 13:30 Mindcrime wrote:
I prefer to have both 25str, max damage and iron skins. Ranger/cleric ftw
At which level you have everything ? + you dont get the max of specialisations in weapons right ?
You would have all of those spells by cleric level 10. As for weapon skills, in an unmodded game, grand mastery is a bit pointless.
Show nested quote +On September 12 2008 13:30 Mindcrime wrote:
You do realize where that extra attack goes, right?
? the extra attack is for the main weapon ?
Yeah, and if you have improved haste, that's 2 extra attacks with the main weapon.
A Kensai / mage is like 20x better.
They're actually really close in terms of power. I think it depends on party makeup when it comes to which is stronger. There is definitely something to be said for being able to use the Helm of Balduran or Vhailor's helm, and the Gauntlets of Extraordinary Weapon Specialization, and the Shield of Balduran.
Show nested quote +On September 12 2008 13:30 Mindcrime wrote:
swashbuckler/fighter
swashbuckler/mage
swashbuckler/cleric
berserker/druid
berserker/cleric
wizard slayer/thief
kensai/druid
ranger/cleric
stalker/cleric (soa, but not stock tob)
archer/cleric (soa, but not stock tob)
Ok But why you dont want the two last combos in tob ?
They're just not possible in an unmodded tob. For some reason, bioware decided to make dual-classing impossible for stalkers and archers in tob.
I played a multi mage/priest ( which is like 1000X better for solo ) and even with the algernoon trick the beginning is a pain in the ass. + u have to kill poor Algernoon
Algernon had it coming.
P.S: i forget the backstab immunes. I just read some stuff about dual class ( i have to admit that i never really tried them at high level and they seem quite gay to "schedule" ).
When your main class is inactive it means that you cant use spells and abilities right ? That would ruin all my therorycrafted assassin / X dual classes for solo :O
Everything you gained from your first class, with the exception of hit points, is unavailable until your levels in your second class pass your levels in the first.
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I heard a tip for kensai/mage dual classes that is pretty helpful for regaining levels quickly. What you do is buy/collect as many different spell scrolls as you can, then kick everyone out of your party so the xp isn't shared, and memorize them all (if you have duplicates I think you can even remove and rememorize them). Each scroll gives 1000 xp for every level of the spell. When I did it I kept Viconia in my party to make sure I didn't end the romance, but it still sped things up considerably.
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Buying scrolls is for losers. Stealing ftw.
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damn I got owned by some fuckin wolf in the beginning and it was like 'GGNORE YOU GOTTA START OVER"
frick~~
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eh, if your playing with npcs, as a note for bg2 as diff chars really do make the diff,
I'd recommend Haerdalis, edwin, and mazzy as musts, i found when i played through, those 3 were insanely useful over any other character i picked up, MC feel free to correct me as im sure you will .
In BG1, for interesting party situations, get Xzar and monteron, then Khalid and Jahara, as the 4 have the most amusing party interactions
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Haer Dalis? Really? I never even tried him because I assumed bards suck. Edwin is definitely a must if you are not a mage. He just gets so many damn spells. Mazzy is good as an archer but there are definitely better (and more entertaining) front line fighters. Keldorn I found to be extremely useful even though he was sort of boring. Carsomyr & a non mage who can use true seeing and Double level dispel magic made him indispensable in my group.
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I found him extremely decent as a) bards do get some spells so he could add to my summoning abuse, b) he had offensive and defensive stance(blade) c)he was extremely amusing as a character d) although his bard song sucked, it does have its uses, and e)anyone from the city of doors is downright grab in my books
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Yeah maybe I will try him next time I play. Mostly for C though since I don't summon abuse and wouldn't necessarily want a bard fighting on the front lines. What is the city of doors? Is it in the game or something from D&D in general? I do remember he was from some other plane and his race was called tiefling or something but beyond that I know nothing of his background.
I actually did use a bard once when I made my whole party using the multiplayer thing. I made a skald, berzerker, sorcerer, swashbuckler, and a ranger/cleric. The last slot I left open for npcs. I never finished that playthrough but I remember the skald had a pretty good song.
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The city of doors is another name for sigil, so Planescape torment takes place there.
Bards are alot better IMO in neverwinter nights.
As for your playthrough you just mentioned, why did you opt for sorcerer over a mage? I personally always go mage, or one of the specialized mages. For npc's i usually go for things that compliment my main, which is usually a paladin, or mage so i need a balanced party to fill out my ranks, i usually aim for
tank
tank
summoner/offensive tank
priest
archer
priest mage
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I did sorcerer to mix things up a bit, also you don't have to choose beforehand how many of each spell you want to use before you rest. You just have to be smart about what you choose to put in your spellbook because it is limited, it is definitely not for beginners because you need to know what spells you want. I think that they are at least as powerful as a regular mage and take less micromanagement of spells.
Hmm who detects/disarms traps with your setup? Do you just use spells?
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On September 13 2008 13:52 Xeris wrote:
damn I got owned by some fuckin wolf in the beginning and it was like 'GGNORE YOU GOTTA START OVER"
frick~~
Being owned by a wolf is a classic.
Now I HOPE YOU WILL ENJOY YOU FIRST ENCOUNTER WITH AN OGRE.
Moffo will one shot you.
Have you installed TuTu mod btw ? ( Dont forget it )
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Haha Xeris, Q( quicksave ) will be your new favourite key.
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Blades, Haer'Dalis included, are far from being underpowered. :|
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Indeed. Blades are great, also great solo.
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On September 13 2008 16:33 Pangolin wrote:
I did sorcerer to mix things up a bit, also you don't have to choose beforehand how many of each spell you want to use before you rest. You just have to be smart about what you choose to put in your spellbook because it is limited, it is definitely not for beginners because you need to know what spells you want. I think that they are at least as powerful as a regular mage and take less micromanagement of spells.
Hmm who detects/disarms traps with your setup? Do you just use spells?
Spells to locate, then if unable disarm, some unfortunate warrior is about to make a long hard journey
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On September 14 2008 04:24 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
Spells to locate, then if unable disarm, some unfortunate warrior is about to make a long hard journey
Solo-ing the Durlag tower with a warrior must be quite horrible xD
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On September 14 2008 05:03 Boblion wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2008 04:24 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
Spells to locate, then if unable disarm, some unfortunate warrior is about to make a long hard journey Solo-ing the Durlag tower with a warrior must be quite horrible xD
Baldurs gate 1 i always had a thief in the party, because of Durlag's tower, but in BG2 it didnt matter as much, and thats what a tank should be able to do, absorb insane damage and not complain
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EPT
