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Northern Ireland25331 Posts
Pure vent post, 3 weeks ago, an old friend from school took his own he was 29, as I am for another week until I hit the big 30.
Yesterday another friend did the same, he was 27. A fan of Starcraft and an enthusiastic participant in our local tournaments and banter.
A person who struggled with demons and alcohol, who I fucking failed. I exiled him from our community, correctly at the time but I can’t help feel he just wanted a place in the earth to fit in and I denied him that. For something that in the greater scheme of things didn’t fucking matter at all.
He posted some posts that get like warning signs on Facebook that I completely misread amongst the sea of general attention seeking and I thought he was just venting, I didn’t reach out despite it triggering my concerns.
I was institutionalised, I’m more au fait with mental health issues than anyone I know, not from choice. How did I fucking miss this?
My friend, who was studying medicine at Cambridge half a decade ago, died from an overdose in a fucking halfway house, he’d picked himself up recently and found a partner who seemed to raise his spirits, she broke up with him after 2 years, unbeknownst to me and it seemed that was the straw.
Perhaps nothing I could have said would have made any difference whatsoever, but I’ll forever carry a guilt on this issue.
Within our small, avowedly amateur and some 450 people strong Irish Starcraft collective, 2 young men have killed themselves in the last 5 years, the last one was only 19.
This is a fucking disgrace, for all my guilt I’m merely a guy with his own mental health issues, and no actual expertise outside the experiential.
Our suicide rate amongst young men in Northern Ireland is catastrophic, it’s a fucking disgrace and it’s a blight on our people. It’s the single biggest cause of death amongst young males in our province, although I can’t recall the exact statistics I believe it’s for men under 30.
It’s horrendous, fuck this. I cancelled having my kid visiting today as I am a complete emotional mess, couldn’t face seeing my son feeling I let a man die. Thank you TL for listening to my venting (if indeed you did).
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I'm sorry to hear that man. I'm not an expert by any means but as I was reading this Jordan Peterson video came to mind. Maybe it can help you in some way - + Show Spoiler +
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My dude there is no reality in which any of this is even remotely your fault. You just can't take personal responsibility for other people's actions; doing so amounts to treating/viewing them as children at best, non-persons at worst. Shit happens and our only course of action is to keep moving forward.
Stay strong. <3
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Sorry for your loss. Whenever I underestimated the value of life, I found the variety of animals to give me proof that it's always a gift and not a burden. Whether it was my now passed away dogs, or the porcupine family that made my garden their home lately (with me expecting them have a hard time dodging the cars around here  ), or the birds nesting in the elder tree. Learning to be compassionate is to appreciate life in my opinion.
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Don't blame yourself. you too are a victim of these suicides. You are not the person to rehabilitate suicide risks.
If you truly knew beforehand you would have acted. It's all just really sad.
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Northern Ireland22208 Posts
I wouldn't blame yourself for this. Our "politicians" have a lot of blood on their hands. Everytime I see that photo of Foster and O'Neill acting all buddy buddy laughing and hugging, it just reinforces the point that it's all political games for them, while people are suffering and dying.
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Northern Ireland25331 Posts
On October 14 2019 19:57 ahswtini wrote:
I wouldn't blame yourself for this. Our "politicians" have a lot of blood on their hands. Everytime I see that photo of Foster and O'Neill acting all buddy buddy laughing and hugging, it just reinforces the point that it's all political games for them, while people are suffering and dying.
Indeed. Some politicians and folks in the health/charity sectors do care about this issue and are trying, they’re getting fuck all help from those who hold the purse strings.
I don’t want to hear another platitude from politicians about how tragic it is when homelessness is an increasing problem and mental health and addiction services have funding cuts. What the fuck do you think is going to happen when you’re presiding over cutbacks in the three areas that are the biggest preventable risk factors for suicide?
Or the ‘trauma of the Troubles’ angle being used to explain our shameful suicide rates amongst young men. No, it may be a factor sure, but it frames this as some unique problem that is difficult to fix, to the detriment of looking at the obvious things that can be improved here. The former Yugoslavia had a civil war within my lifetime far more brutal in ways than the Troubles, albeit a different form of conflict and those countries don’t have abnormally high suicide rates last I checked.
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My condolences man. It sucks when people are in pain choose to hide it and try to carry on. We all need help sometimes.
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I know you may know this right now: You can't blame yourself for his death.
I'm not going to proscribe action or intent on you, and instead talk about my own experience and see if it rings true for you.
4 years ago, someone I knew in a online community I frequented, killed themselves. Last time we had spoken we had argued over some dumb shit. I knew some of her struggles and I had similar ones too, some of which I had bested.
I felt guilty for years, that I should have done something: that if we didn't argue things would have been different, If I had known, I would have taken her away from her awful family, that I would have done something anything! She was in my sphere of influence, I could have got to know her better, listened more...
I was sad, angry that the universe could do this, I remember the little things: bonding over a love for XCOM and how it absolutely destroyed me that she didn't live to see the sequel that she was looking forward to.
Upon reflection, we weren't super close: but that didn't help the guilt, the anger I felt.
I was angry at the lack of justice, I blamed myself because I couldn't get the universe or society to take the blame.
There was no magical solution, I carried the anger and sadness for at least two years, I've got better at dealing with it: letting myself not carry the burdens of others as my own, just because I know what the burden is like from prior experience.
I want you to think I'm a fucking preachy idiot who didn't experience any real loss and/or doesn't know shit, because I think that's natural and healthy even. If you can take the suicide of someone close to you like its nothing; you might have a problem. I don't want suicide to be a thing that just happens and yadada, this too shall pass.
I want change, and having some anger is a good motivator.
But to steal a line from The Wire: there ain't no shame in holding on to grief, as long as you make room for other things too.
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This may be too cutting, but there's no point in taking responsibility only after there's nothing you can do anymore. Even while the person was living, it makes no sense to be a bleeding heart for someone you didn't like or talk to much. Even with people we like, we can't destroy ourselves trying to help them, we can't ask people to destroy themselves to help us.
If you feel so bad about it, how are you going to behave differently in the future? Who are you going to help that's still alive and could use a little more support?
I guess I'm asking for you to have a concrete idea of what needs to change about you, and if nothing needs to change, then to please stop seeking attention for someone's suicide.
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On October 15 2019 07:41 Chef wrote:
I guess I'm asking for you to have a concrete idea of what needs to change about you, and if nothing needs to change, then to please stop seeking attention for someone's suicide.
you should be ashamed of yourself and immediately apologize to the OP for this childish and ignorant statement. opening up about an emotional reaction to another person's suicide is not "attention seeking" and if it is then it's attention seeking in the same way as any normal human social interaction. you are in a blog section. what are you expecting to see here if not people's musings about their own emotions?
after you apologize to OP you should seek out the person who taught you that seeking emotional support from the public is shameful and you should request an apology from that person for stunting and misleading you
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Northern Ireland25331 Posts
Thanks for the responses folks, I shall reply in due time but they did help.
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Northern Ireland22208 Posts
On October 15 2019 08:30 Wombat_NI wrote:
Thanks for the responses folks, I shall reply in due time but they did help.
hit me up if you ever wanna chat. i miss when all the boys would get on discord or teamspeak for a good REAL AISC TALK
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Don't blame yourself, you didn't know. I know it's not as easy as that but I know you wouldn't go out of your way to cause another person's suicide.
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There's probably -- or hopefully -- an organization near you that deals with people whose close ones have committed suicide. You mention that you're an emotional mess, so maybe give them a call if thats something that keeps up.
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4713 Posts
Hi Wombat,
I'm really sorry to hear about your loss. I can't know what you're going through but I can emphasize. I've been going through a situation of my own and, one advice I can give is, make yourself busy.
As others have said, don't blame yourself, while that can be common sense, its a lot harder in practice. That's why I say find ways to make yourself busy, work, play, family or whatever can get your mind of this will be of help.
I hope feel better soon.
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Northern Ireland25331 Posts
On October 14 2019 23:44 Kerotan wrote:
I know you may know this right now: You can't blame yourself for his death.
I'm not going to proscribe action or intent on you, and instead talk about my own experience and see if it rings true for you.
4 years ago, someone I knew in a online community I frequented, killed themselves. Last time we had spoken we had argued over some dumb shit. I knew some of her struggles and I had similar ones too, some of which I had bested.
I felt guilty for years, that I should have done something: that if we didn't argue things would have been different, If I had known, I would have taken her away from her awful family, that I would have done something anything! She was in my sphere of influence, I could have got to know her better, listened more...
I was sad, angry that the universe could do this, I remember the little things: bonding over a love for XCOM and how it absolutely destroyed me that she didn't live to see the sequel that she was looking forward to.
Upon reflection, we weren't super close: but that didn't help the guilt, the anger I felt.
I was angry at the lack of justice, I blamed myself because I couldn't get the universe or society to take the blame.
There was no magical solution, I carried the anger and sadness for at least two years, I've got better at dealing with it: letting myself not carry the burdens of others as my own, just because I know what the burden is like from prior experience.
I want you to think I'm a fucking preachy idiot who didn't experience any real loss and/or doesn't know shit, because I think that's natural and healthy even. If you can take the suicide of someone close to you like its nothing; you might have a problem. I don't want suicide to be a thing that just happens and yadada, this too shall pass.
I want change, and having some anger is a good motivator.
But to steal a line from The Wire: there ain't no shame in holding on to grief, as long as you make room for other things too.
I wish I could externalise some of my rather conflicted feelings outward into anger at you, but alas I’m not so wired and your post was very much appreciated and considered. The addition of a quote from the Wire, one of my top 3 shows of all time was also appreciated at my end!
As per what you said, I have quite the degree of contemptuous anger on this. Feels like other people can make a ‘this sucks’ post on Facebook and just get on with their lives without a great deal of thought outside of the immediate couple of days.
I’m an extremely emotional person, which has its positives and negatives. I’m bipolar which partly explains this I suppose, on the plus side I’m a rather honest and forthright person if you know me because well, I basically can’t hide my emotional state very well because well, I guess they’re more extreme than other people’s experiences. Which I think is a good thing and I embrace that, on the flipside things can really hit me very hard.
I know logically I can’t help people in certain circumstances, indeed I made a conscious decision to not take all of this on my shoulders. I realised I had to be in a good, solid position myself before I could take on the burdens of others, and I’ve largely stuck to that.
This was rather reinforced once I got discharged from psychiatric care and tried to keep in touch with others, keep an eye and try to keep regular social contact at the very least. I returned to work, education pretty quickly and they largely didn’t. I have a 6 year old kiddo and they don’t.
No amount of grabbing a coffee or playing some pool could really fill the void for them being out of employment, education and many of whom had been largely ostracised from families and friends too. To attempt to fill those demands myself would have just ended up breaking me in the end and I’d have been useful to no one. Schizophrenia is a bit beyond my pay grade tbh, they’re not bad people by any means but they can be hard to deal with at times.
It feels like there’s this conflict between the raw emotion of the experience (this is the second in 3 weeks too, the other was a friend from my school days), and me knowing logically that I cannot help in certain situations, this one included.
Still, there’s a lot of guilt nonetheless. Emotions don’t always play ball and be subservient to logical thinking. Rape survivors, who have been violated by contemptible individuals with no fault on them still report such feelings. I never really understood that, although it’s starting to make more sense to me now.
I guess I got the help I needed and he didn’t ultimately, while the sensible response is to be thankful that I did, angry he didn’t and aspire to a hypothetical where we both got it, emotionally I feel I got that help instead of him and pondering what the fuck made me more worthy of it than him.
Additionally I can’t even really claim that this was some bolt out of the blue that totally surprised me and ‘if only I knew’. That it didn’t surprise me one iota kind of attests to that.
I’d seen some stuff online that made me ponder reaching out more forcefully, and I decided against it. My first instinct was correct ultimately but, I just rationalised it as being standard Facebook venting that I see a lot of and dismiss on that basis.
I’m pretty angry that people do vacuously post attention-seeking nonsense to such a prevalent degree that I failed to distinguish between the background noise and a real cry for help.
I’m pretty angry that our official services and indeed wider society are failing to such a degree that someone in my position feels it’s his job to fill in the cracks they’ve left people to fall through, and is beating himself up for not being able to spin all those plates.
My friend informed me earlier that in his capacity as a paramedic he’s been called out to 8 suicides of men in the 18-24 in the last week alone.
This is a horrendous issue here, the extent of which is hidden by families not wishing to publicise the manner of their son’s deaths. I do not blame them whatsoever for wanting the privacy in such a time, but it does contribute to this issue being downplayed to a degree.
Within the last 3 weeks two of my friends from my alma mater have taken their lives. One of the prestige schools in our rather small country, they didn’t end up in any newspaper, for whatever reason that tends to be the preserve of people from more humble backgrounds. Perhaps the vulture media makes it worth the while of the families, who knows?
I have yet to make a friend in this life who has passed away by any method other than suicide, and I’m not 30 until next week.
That is, fucked. Can people from other areas of the globe say that?
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Northern Ireland25331 Posts
On October 15 2019 07:41 Chef wrote:
This may be too cutting, but there's no point in taking responsibility only after there's nothing you can do anymore. Even while the person was living, it makes no sense to be a bleeding heart for someone you didn't like or talk to much. Even with people we like, we can't destroy ourselves trying to help them, we can't ask people to destroy themselves to help us.
If you feel so bad about it, how are you going to behave differently in the future? Who are you going to help that's still alive and could use a little more support?
I guess I'm asking for you to have a concrete idea of what needs to change about you, and if nothing needs to change, then to please stop seeking attention for someone's suicide.
Thank you for the ratter blunt honesty, it’s appreciated, although unpopular.
Your assertation that I’m seeking attention is, deeply hurtful to me, I took it to TL because people either knew me m,’or knew the individual in question. I’m privy to certain details of his last days I’d rather his other friends don’t hear about, and of any internet venting forum in the world I trust TL and TLers.
Myself and a friend are working on some stuff, maybe it helps maybe it doesn’t.
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Northern Ireland25331 Posts
In terms of other responses, thank you. They’re all quite similar in ways, and come from folks I’ve grown accustomed to seeing on these hallowed forums over the many years I’ve been here, and part of the reason I stay here on TL spamming.
Thank you all, I can’t really think of a more expanded response outside of that, that’s basically it. Thank you for taking the time out of your day to engage with my current grim reality and it genuinely helped.
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Northern Ireland25331 Posts
On October 15 2019 07:45 brickrd wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2019 07:41 Chef wrote:
I guess I'm asking for you to have a concrete idea of what needs to change about you, and if nothing needs to change, then to please stop seeking attention for someone's suicide. you should be ashamed of yourself and immediately apologize to the OP for this childish and ignorant statement. opening up about an emotional reaction to another person's suicide is not "attention seeking" and if it is then it's attention seeking in the same way as any normal human social interaction. you are in a blog section. what are you expecting to see here if not people's musings about their own emotions? after you apologize to OP you should seek out the person who taught you that seeking emotional support from the public is shameful and you should request an apology from that person for stunting and misleading you
Frankly I don’t particularly care for a prompted apology for someone who would say such a thing in the first place, although I appreciate your post a lot nonetheless.
I posted on TL as I don’t use other forums, and either people in my real life either knew me, the afflicted or both of us and couldn’t really fully open up without people finding out things.
I really would prefer other people think that he had a ‘bit of a hard time that he couldn’t cope with’ than find out he was sleeping under bridges and halfway houses for the latter periods of his life, and quite a long period of time.
I’d rather not expose my own feelings to those I know on this, nor spoil the memories others had of a good and kind guy, despite his foibles.
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i am very sorry for your loss.
i have had to deal with several deaths in my life, as i'm sure we all have, but not any suicides as of yet. well, my grandfather probably tried to kill himself. he took an entire box of sleeping pills, like 20 or something, instead of the one he was supposed to take. he barely survived as he was already in hospital, then died a few months later. he was 84 years old and rather confused and he always denied he had any intent to kill himself so what do i know.
but anyway, that's not what this thread is about. i think whenever we lose someone, we should try to keep a memory of that person. a good memory, but also a somewhat realistic memory. i learned this when my dad passed; i had some time to prepare for that happening, not that i really managed to, but that meant i had some time to think about how i wanted to remember him. in cases of suicide we don't have that luxury, of course.
and the other thing we should do is try to learn from them. learn from our reaction to the news of their passing, learn from how others deal with it, learn from what lead the person to that point where they ended up dying, whether they took their own life or not.
again, my sincerest condolences.
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You may have answered it already. I've read some of the replies (not all) and they've already said what needs or can be said. But what I want to know is what are you doing personally? Are you bettering yourself as a friend to all who you think may need someone to talk to? Have you changed your thinking on life and those around you? What is your plan to move forward?
We talk in the US pol thread and other places. So I'm just getting to the heart of the matter. Are you changing? Or are you stuck? I ask because I can offer some...advice. PM me if you'd like.
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Wombat_NI I know nothing of you except the post you've written so please take that into account. I'm also going to be very general.
The way I see it - you have the attitude of owning the failure that has occurred - but with a flawed add-on.
First, on owning the failure that has occurred. In my view, this is commendable. I see it as a strong attitude. Honest. This is because that attitude enables to focus on improving. Not allowing such things to happen again.
Attitudes of ignoring the issue or running from it, these don't focus on improving. They focus on who or what to blame or why and how to feel helpless.
That's why I respect your attitude.
Onto the flawed add-on of guilt, imo that's very wrong. It's flat out wrong. It assumes that you somehow had all the skills, all the knowledge, all the requirements in place to handle that in a way that would ensure it could not happen and you didn't, so you're a bad person in general. That's nonsense.
It really is nonsense. The only way such assumptions would ever be justified, is if you were perfect and obviously you're human and humans are very imperfect, save for areas they train a lot and get very skilled at.
There's balance to owning a failure that has occurred. One goes too far in being objective about it and rationalization kicks in, to the point of not owning it at all, blaming some other things or going victim mode. One goes too far in the other direction of owning the failure, one forgets simple realities of imperfection and being human. Both of these derailments are unreasonable, not justified by any real ethics, and both of them screw and stifle improvement.
A person cannot be guilty of not being perfect. A person can, instead, own the failures but in a healthy, reasonable way. Account for the fact that everyone fails. Own the failures, learn the lessons, improve and move on. See to improve on and not repeat mistakes.
And that's just my opinion. What you've described, anybody might find such a weight heavy and perhaps too heavy to lift on their own. Not my words but somebody wise said: those who live should live up to and cherish life to the fullest to honor those who no longer can. Given that a person's life is about 80 years, it's easy to fail on doing that. I'd say you might very seriously consider finding a way to learn, acknowledge, cheer up and move on, and sooner rather than later, and that it's a very big deal that you do make the moving on part happen and not let it waste life. Props for having the reason and guts to not just keep it rotting inside but take it somewhere and help yourself heal to a more reasonable perspective. I wish you well, man.
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Northern Ireland25331 Posts
On October 16 2019 23:51 Schelim wrote:
i am very sorry for your loss.
i have had to deal with several deaths in my life, as i'm sure we all have, but not any suicides as of yet. well, my grandfather probably tried to kill himself. he took an entire box of sleeping pills, like 20 or something, instead of the one he was supposed to take. he barely survived as he was already in hospital, then died a few months later. he was 84 years old and rather confused and he always denied he had any intent to kill himself so what do i know.
but anyway, that's not what this thread is about. i think whenever we lose someone, we should try to keep a memory of that person. a good memory, but also a somewhat realistic memory. i learned this when my dad passed; i had some time to prepare for that happening, not that i really managed to, but that meant i had some time to think about how i wanted to remember him. in cases of suicide we don't have that luxury, of course.
and the other thing we should do is try to learn from them. learn from our reaction to the news of their passing, learn from how others deal with it, learn from what lead the person to that point where they ended up dying, whether they took their own life or not.
again, my sincerest condolences.
Thanks for that.
Lost my own grandfather like 3 weeks ago, we were a lot closer as adult peers than when I was a kid, especially after my dad and his firstborn passed away. He ended up having dementia and wasn’t himself, when I found out he was looking into assisted dying it really didn’t affect me at all, ‘he doesn’t have much of a life’ being my refrain.
I was, somewhat glad he passed. He was a proud man who didn’t take well to being infirm, and he wasn’t the man we all knew.
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Northern Ireland25331 Posts
On October 18 2019 02:26 coffeesession wrote:
Wombat_NI I know nothing of you except the post you've written so please take that into account. I'm also going to be very general.
The way I see it - you have the attitude of owning the failure that has occurred - but with a flawed add-on.
First, on owning the failure that has occurred. In my view, this is commendable. I see it as a strong attitude. Honest. This is because that attitude enables to focus on improving. Not allowing such things to happen again.
Attitudes of ignoring the issue or running from it, these don't focus on improving. They focus on who or what to blame or why and how to feel helpless.
That's why I respect your attitude.
Onto the flawed add-on of guilt, imo that's very wrong. It's flat out wrong. It assumes that you somehow had all the skills, all the knowledge, all the requirements in place to handle that in a way that would ensure it could not happen and you didn't, so you're a bad person in general. That's nonsense.
It really is nonsense. The only way such assumptions would ever be justified, is if you were perfect and obviously you're human and humans are very imperfect, save for areas they train a lot and get very skilled at.
There's balance to owning a failure that has occurred. One goes too far in being objective about it and rationalization kicks in, to the point of not owning it at all, blaming some other things or going victim mode. One goes too far in the other direction of owning the failure, one forgets simple realities of imperfection and being human. Both of these derailments are unreasonable, not justified by any real ethics, and both of them screw and stifle improvement.
A person cannot be guilty of not being perfect. A person can, instead, own the failures but in a healthy, reasonable way. Account for the fact that everyone fails. Own the failures, learn the lessons, improve and move on. See to improve on and not repeat mistakes.
And that's just my opinion. What you've described, anybody might find such a weight heavy and perhaps too heavy to lift on their own. Not my words but somebody wise said: those who live should live up to and cherish life to the fullest to honor those who no longer can. Given that a person's life is about 80 years, it's easy to fail on doing that. I'd say you might very seriously consider finding a way to learn, acknowledge, cheer up and move on, and sooner rather than later, and that it's a very big deal that you do make the moving on part happen and not let it waste life. Props for having the reason and guts to not just keep it rotting inside but take it somewhere and help yourself heal to a more reasonable perspective. I wish you well, man.
Thank you for the perspective.
I guess I put extra weight on my shoulders because I was extremely ill mentally, got sectioned and had people looking out for me.
A lot of people want to help, they don’t know the process, I do. I’ve enacted it myself for a friend, and a friend of mine did it for me in the past.
In the absence of other avenues of help well, myself or a good friend know how to force it and we both missed this one.
Logically I know it’s preposterous to expect either of us to fill the holes in our mental health services, 100% I know logically it’s an unrealistic expectation of myself, I still emotionally feel that I failed.
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Northern Ireland25331 Posts
On October 17 2019 12:23 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:
You may have answered it already. I've read some of the replies (not all) and they've already said what needs or can be said. But what I want to know is what are you doing personally? Are you bettering yourself as a friend to all who you think may need someone to talk to? Have you changed your thinking on life and those around you? What is your plan to move forward?
We talk in the US pol thread and other places. So I'm just getting to the heart of the matter. Are you changing? Or are you stuck? I ask because I can offer some...advice. PM me if you'd like.
Everyone I know in theory can talk to me, evidently some don’t think they can.
Myself and a friend are making a website to fill gaps we feel exist within current services in every way we think they’re lacking and hocking what we’re doing to every mental health service in the land. Every aspect of difficult we both have found, that of others we’re trying to gather in one informational dump.
I’ve had 2 suicides of friends in 3 weeks. He’s attended 8 of men 16-24 in the last 10 days
As people who’ve both been through services we know barriers to access so we’re trying to make a one stop shop for such information
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Now that you're looking back, do you have some sort of new entry point to conversations about finding meaning in life and enduring shitty years of life hopeful for something better?
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Northern Ireland25331 Posts
On October 19 2019 09:05 Danglars wrote:
Now that you're looking back, do you have some sort of new entry point to conversations about finding meaning in life and enduring shitty years of life hopeful for something better?
Hm, yes but that was very much self-generated years ago. I was extremely unwell had a year on the shelf so when I ‘came back’ so to speak I had that extra later of motivation I suppose.
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Northern Ireland25331 Posts
But aye thanks for the responses all, really helped having this space to vent out some emotion and replies were well-considered and constructive.
Feeling a bit better, not entirely out of my mind by any means but I’m doing OK. Thanks again all.
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I had a member of my extended family endhis life a handful of years ago now.
We are spread across the country, and very rarely get to have full family reunions. The last we had was at my grandmother's funeral. (She lived until she was nearly 100). Upon seeing him, I immediately saw there was some darkness eating away, but I did not understand the extent of it. Not a single other person in my family, including those closest to him had any idea of this. He tried to make it look like an accident so that his family would still be able to get insurance money. It did not work, so he finished it with a firearm.
Let me be clear, for those that end their life, there is VERY rarely, if ever anything someone on the outside can do to stop them. Those that talk about it, are seeking a way out of it. Those that do not, see no way out, and nothing you say or do will change that.
It does not take away from the sorrow of it in any way, but there is no room for blaming yourself for not seeing it. None. It does not mean you should not grieve, or go through the 'what could i have done'. This is human. But you must accept that their choice is in no way reflective of you. It won't make the pain go away. It won't keep you from missing them. In the long run, it will give you some small measure of solace.
edit: clarity.
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Hey man, I'm really sorry you had to go through that, I saw once of your posts on fb a little while ago and it felt strange for me to read because I'm not really part of your life but still I felt for you and yours. To hear that it happened twice in such a short timespan is absolutely gut wrenching...
There are so many campaigns for suicide awareness and they're a good thing I guess but an unfortunate downside is that it makes us feel like we're somehow personally responsible for the mental health of others. There's very little that can be done in most cases. Almost everyone I've known goes through rough patches, their sadness is often indistinguishable from suicidal thoughts and suicidal intentions because people fail to communicate their distress clearly or simply don't want to. If I were to be concerned that every sad facebook message or DM or cryptic signs were all foretelling of a suicide, I would make myself sick trying to take care of people who are for the most part just whining incessantly. You can't be at the ready to catch everyone's fall.
My sympathies for your loss and I hope you're well.
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NI is so fucked up for suicides, it's an absolute disgrace. Politics here is so stagnant and nothing changes. It needs to change but the money is not there.
I really hope you don't mind me replying here and upsetting you. I'm just a TL lurker that saw you were also from NI <3
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