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Part 1
Part 2
Thanks everyone for your replies in the previous thread, but I will only reply to a few of them because this newest part changed everything.
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First I have to clarify some things:
- She considers me as a close friend, we talked about all kinds of things whenever we hung out. She said she had never had such talks with a guy friend. (well I guess this is what the "frienzone" means...). I THINK she still has some respect for me, or maybe she's just really nice to people and don't want to lose a close guy friend who lives in the city. She's also said before that she "don't want to treat people who are nice to me badly".
- She is not pretty, I just find her cute and she has a calming, sweet personality. She works as a Physics teacher for high schoolers in a private center. No, she doesn't like physics, it was just the only department she could get into with her college scores.
PART 3:
So she actually kept the promise and went out for coffee with me. We had a super long conversation where she revealed pretty much everything she had been hiding before. Here are some I can remember:
- She was looking not very happy, but I went ahead with my plan and accused her of being a "terrible friend" because she never initiated contact with me. She was like "well, so be it. I AM a bad person. I made my mother cry".
I tried to ask her why, but she wouldn't say and switched the topic to asking about me. I told her about my family's situation, which is quite a mess since we are running out of money to support my brother who's in high school. I give some of my salary to my dad but it doesn't seem to be enough. She also told me I should "open up" more to people (I got a new job two months ago and have been quite un-talkative to people in my company. She probably found out about it through a mutual friend).
I don't remember exactly when I did this during the whole thing, but I did ask to be her bf instead of just a friend. She just kept staring into the empty, dark waterfall below us.
We talked about life and stuff, she said she never initiated contact with other people because she didn't want to bother them, and she also didn't like asking questions because it felt like she was interrogating them. I'm a massive introvert myself but I still told her she was wrong.
She told me I shouldn't criticize and should give more attention to people, but after some back-and-forth discussion she admitted she was wrong for lying yesterday.
I eventually got her to tell me what happened with her mom. So a few days ago she went to the countryside to see her family, and saw (or heard from someone else) that her mom cried. The reason was that she felt bad for her daughter having to send all the money she worked hard for to her family and couldn't spend any of it like other people.
I knew her family was poor but didn't expect it to be this bad. She has to support her sister's son whose father fled because of debt. And apparently her salary is not enough to support the family, despite it being pretty good for a fresh graduate (her parents also work but don't make much). She even wanted to die so people would give funeral money to her family. I of course talked some sense into her, that it wasn't her fault that her mother cried etc. She said she only tell these things to me because she knows I won't tell anyone. She just doesn't like sharing family issues.
After that:
- She asked me how many girls I've went out with since moving to a new company (none, I don't even talk to anyone except the girl next to me). I fumbled around and eventually told her the truth. She asked me if the reason the reason I kept chasing her was because she kept rejecting me, and refused even though it had some truth to it. She then told me I should try to talk to other girls and said "are you gonna wait for me until I get married??? I don't want you to miss out on other girls because of me." I stubbornly kept saying she was a special girl who wasn't an airhead like many others and that I liked everything about her etc.
There was actually a moment when she surrendered and said "well okay, but I do have standards for my boyfriend". Then she listed five things that she wanted me to do: be cleaner (my hair was long and probably greasy), be more forgiving, act more like a gentleman and work hard. I agreed even though there's no way to say I can do ANY of those (except cutting my hair). The only things I'm good at are English and computer stuff (and have a cute face).
I can't remember what we talked about after that, but on our way home I asked her about her colleagues and heard some interesting stuff:
- The guy in the Physics department with her recently broke up with his girlfriend (she and that guy are the only two people in the Physics room. And he's pretty much the only guy in her life (except me) that she can get with, other people in her company are high schoolers and female teachers, and one guy who has sworn not to date anyone). She now "doesn't know what to do" (as in not sure if she should start something with him). She also said something like "yeah you should stop chasing me, I might fall for him someday!". She told me she didn't have feelings for him despite him being very nice to her (not in a romantic way), but I think she's thinking about it, since she asked me why his ex-gf was still commenting on his Facebook posts when they've already broken up. I told her maybe they had an amicable break up. Not that I know shit about relationships haha. Then I asked if that guy liked her, she said "it's not that simple. There's nothing to like about me!". She said something like "I saw some people get into relationships so easily", I said "well, there are people who take a very long time to do so", and she said "no, I don't want to be one of those!"
Then we got to her house (she lives on the first floor, it's a girl-only house). I wrote in my notes (yes I wrote a whole script for today) that I must get physical contacts with her, otherwise everything will go back to normal tomorrow, so even though things went terribly off-script, I still asked her to give me a hug (which is a big deal in my country). She said no immediately. I kept making up reasons, and she kept rejecting. Her reason was that I would keep thinking about her if I hugged her. Then she said "okay, but after hugging we will cut all contacts with each other". I made some excuses but she didn't break. Then I eventually gave up and decided to stay friends. Before leaving I asked why she doesn't like me. She said "I feel like we're not compatible... I'm not attracted to you. Also the things I said I wanted you to do, those are what I don't like about you".
She waited until I left to close the door and nodded with a smile when I waved goodbye. Such a sweet girl, and I'm just annoying her because of my immature ass.
I felt so bad that when I got home I texted her:
Me: Sorry, I was too childish.
Her: You should go and have a rest.
Me: Yeah, good night. Don't forget to sleep at 00:30 (we talked about the REM sleep cycles thingy, and I calculated the best time for her to go to bed was 00:30 since she gets up at 6:50).
Her: I have to do some work so I'll probably won't make it. Good night.
Me: Sorry for being so stubborn back then. I'll go ahead and sleep first.
Her: Yes.
All her texts were calm and polite, but it's hard to translate the tone to English.
What the lessons here are pretty obvious: I need to work harder, be more sociable and change quite a few things about myself. Also don't skip the "attraction" step with the next girl.
But what should I do about her? I care about her even more now after today. I work for a big education company (just a normal employee though) so I might be able to help her teaching job in some ways, but it will be like once a month. Should I keep talking to her or just leave her be?
P.S. I used to dislike her because of her innocent, "soft" way of talking, but now I realize they're precious treasures.
P.S.S. It seems like I should totally stop texting her, but there's still one thing I need to send her. It's an article about tips for eating at street shops which she does everyday. I don't wanna see her get sick or worse from eating at those street shops.
 
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Your mindset still seems off. You shouldn’t be focusing on you so that you can get girls, you should be focusing on you because it’s what you truly want for yourself.
As a starter, how do YOU feel about the fact that your hair is long and greasy? Is it something you didn’t care about until she brought it up?
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Ugh please move on. Seems clear as day that she doesn't like or even respect you very much. There are plenty girls out there who aren't airheaded.
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UGH its like you ignored everybody's advice in the last blog. i am now just reading to watch the train wreck. she has no interest in you. how many more clear signals do you need? you actually INCREASED your neediness from last time. the wall of text confirms it even more. now you're into full creeper territory trying to force a girl to hug you who clearly told you no multiple times
avilo is that you??????
User was warned for this post.
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But then a few days later, I asked her out to a football match and she said ok, but needed to ask her landlady about moving her stuff and would tell me in the morning if she could. Our date was 7pm but she still hadn't said anything when it was 5:30pm, so I texted her. She said "I can't go, you go ahead". Like it's fucking nothing. Then out of frustration I called her:
Me: hey you couldn't go?
Her: yeah I can't, you go ahead.
Me: why?
Her: I have to move my stuff from the 1st floor to 4th floor.
etc.
I drove to her house to see if I could help her, but she wasn't there. Something seemed fishy. I called her:
Me: hey where are you?
Her: uhm.............. I'm at my friend's!
Me: then why the hell did you tell me you were moving stuff?
Her: I did! then I went to my friend's. (it was only like 6h53pm, which meant she still could have gone with me, but chose not to).
We had a quarrel and I decided we should talk, so I went to her friend's. I wanted to talk about the fact that despite being "friends", she never initiated any contact with me whatsoever, it was always me texting her. And the fact that twice she had canceled our hangout at the last minute with a simple message.
She was there with her friend and told me they were going to have a birthday party for her friend, so if I had something to say let's talk real quick. I had too much to say so after some hesitation I decided to schedule the talk for tomorrow.
I'm gonna tell her that being friends with her is too tiring and that she has to choose: be in a official relationship with me or nothing. It feels a bit harsh, but I can't take this anymore.
My god. Dude. It's like rule #1 of dating stuff. Let me break this down:
- You asked her about a date (she isn't interested) but like many people, especially women, finds it very uncomfortable to say no right on the spot. So, she deflects and gives you a maybe (ill have to check with my landlord)
- She hadn't said anything by 5:30pm either because she wasn't interested and forgot, or because she was just hoping you would forget.
- She said it like it's "fucking nothing" because it is. She had already told you, (clearly, in her mind, because this is how women dating language works) that she wasn't interested. In this case, she hadn't even given you anything firm
- You start getting REALLY fucking wierd asking why and shit.
- Again, very pressured but not wanting to say the uncomfortable thing of "I'm not interested" she makes something up under pressure.
- You get EVEN MORE FUCKING CREEPY...and actually drive to her fucking house to check on her. Obviously you don't, but this is extremely, extremely weird. You said in your early blog you never got with anything in college and haven't dated much. This interaction is revealing why that is.
Good looking people don't not get laid, unless they aggressively avoid it and turn it down....or are so socially reclusive/clueless that they miss all signals. You're the latter. You're just not at all socially clued in. The sooner you recognize this, the sooner you can actually start doing something to fix it.
- Apparently, you decide (without her input?) that you should talk, despite the fact she may not want to? And then drive to her friends house. If she actually told you where it was and said you should come...you're still being ridiculous. If she didn't and you just told her and went to her friends house...this is even more extreme creepiness.
Anyway. That's what happened. She wasn't interested and you got weird. Really, really weird.
I guess you confirm that here. No surprises:
She said "I feel like we're not compatible... I'm not attracted to you.
This was obvious from the moment she didn't want to go on a date with you.
I stubbornly kept saying she was a special girl who wasn't an airhead like many others and that I liked everything about her etc.
There was actually a moment when she surrendered and said "well okay, but I do have standards for my boyfriend". Then she listed five things that she wanted me to do: be cleaner (my hair was long and probably greasy), be more forgiving, act more like a gentleman and work hard. I agreed even though there's no way to say I can do ANY of those (except cutting my hair). The only things I'm good at are English and computer stuff (and have a cute face).
You're making this girl so uncomfortable pressuring her so much that she feels she needs to make up some imaginary way she could date you...knowing it won't happen.
I wrote in my notes (yes I wrote a whole script for today) that I must get physical contacts with her, otherwise everything will go back to normal tomorrow, so even though things went terribly off-script, I still asked her to give me a hug (which is a big deal in my country). She said no immediately. I kept making up reasons, and she kept rejecting.
Jesus. Fucking. Christ. Dude. The Fuck. You don't force physical contact with someone that doesn't want it. Do you want that dirty homeless guy that just soiled himself hugging you or touching you? Fuck no. Same thing for her. She doesn't like you. She is fucking creeped out by you. Leave her the fuck alone.
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Me: Sorry, I was too childish.
Her: You should go and have a rest.
Me: Yeah, good night. Don't forget to sleep at 00:30 (we talked about the REM sleep cycles thingy, and I calculated the best time for her to go to bed was 00:30 since she gets up at 6:50).
Her: I have to do some work so I'll probably won't make it. Good night.
Me: Sorry for being so stubborn back then. I'll go ahead and sleep first.
Her: Yes.
Again. The translated version of her responses:
Her: Fuck off.I don't want to talk to you.
Her: Dude. Stop talking to me and telling me shit.
Her: Good boy. Fuck off.
She is incredibly terse and giving you nothing. Probably desperately hoping you will not talk to her ever again.
But what should I do about her? I care about her even more now after today. I work for a big education company (just a normal employee though) so I might be able to help her teaching job in some ways, but it will be like once a month. Should I keep talking to her or just leave her be?
P.S. I used to dislike her because of her innocent, "soft" way of talking, but now I realize they're precious treasures.
Oh man. I don't even know where to start. Lots of girls are like her, this is neither rare, nor a "precious treasure. Why on earth do you care about a girl who actively dislikes like you and has ZERO interest in you? Your choice but sounds crappy to me to hang out and spend time with a girl who you like but she has zero affection or interest in you.
Because of what you have done though. you absolutely need to STOP TALKING TO HER. Number one, she doesn't like you. You can even see the change of tone in her posts. She went from "okay guy to talk to but not attracted to" -> "this fucking creep, go away".
You screwed the pooch on this one. Hard. Let it go. For both your sake and for hers.
Where do you go from here?
Your first, and only, real chance is to recognize that you're badly miscalibrated socially. You aren't aware of this, so this probably comes as a shock, probably hurts, and probably feels like we are all being quite rude to you. Your thoughts, your responses, and especially your behaviors show a strong bit of entitlement (she should date me, I'm going to go check on her at her house, making her talk to me, forcing a hug, "setting her straight" about how she thinks, "talking sense into her", etc. are all entititled, very bad, immature behaviors) and a total lack of ability to read and pick up on social cues.
Basically, you need to re-learn how social interaction works. Maybe you understand it in a work context, or a guy-guy context. I don't know. What I do know if that you have zero idea of how to read, respond to, understand, and act around women (and likely guys, they are just more likely to be direct).
Best thing I can think of is to read a bunch of information. Start hanging out in the dating thread and reading anything you can get your hands on online. I'd also try to make one or two friends that are highly social people, and ideally do well with women. Talk to them all the time. Ask them questions. Go out with them, and when you do, observe the interaction. Observe what people say to them, how they say it, and how your friends react.
What you have had of you is not an easy task, but it's the only way you have of making any progress.
If you need any evidence of just how bad your missing the social script, just look at your last blog. Number 2 in this series. EVERY single person told you the same stuff. Many of the responses were so shocked that they were harsh or strong response. There was no grey area. Everyone agrees, and you're the only one that doesn't see it. Which is my point, you don't see socially what everyone else sees and perceive what they perceive.
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you're clearly obsessed. i think its funny how you tried to make an ultimatum with her saying, either date me or ill cut contact off with you and she was like nice!! ok cya!! and you're like, well we'll still be friends LMAO. work on yourself man, this is unhealthy for your mentality. get a hobby, work on your hygiene or w.e (she said you were greasy so idk im making vague suggestions). i suggest working out, it will make you feel accomplished and you'll feel better about yourself, it'll keep your mind off her and probably increase your success rate with other girls.. this whole situation is pretty cringy. the damage is done, forget about it
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On May 15 2019 05:38 castleeMg wrote:
you're clearly obsessed. i think its funny how you tried to make an ultimatum with her saying, either date me or ill cut contact off with you and she was like nice!! ok cya!! and you're like, well we'll still be friends LMAO. work on yourself man, this is unhealthy for your mentality. get a hobby, work on your hygiene or w.e (she said you were greasy so idk im making vague suggestions). i suggest working out, it will make you feel accomplished and you'll feel better about yourself, it'll keep your mind off her and probably increase your success rate with other girls.. this whole situation is pretty cringy. the damage is done, forget about it
I understand where you are coming from here, and those are all typically good things to work on. In this case though, the massive, underlying #1 thing Garnet needs to work on is understanding social interaction. Right now, he just doesn't get it. The entitlement, the missing every possible signal, the desperation, etc. I genuinely just don't think he has a good idea of what is socially acceptable, nor of any sort of subtext/hints/implied meaning/etc.
Honestly, I would love to see a picture of him. If he is actually good looking like he claims, then everything becomes even more true...because the only way good looking guys remain a virgin for that long (assuming not a social recluse or by choice) is by being incredibly socially out of tune.
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I hope you learn the right lessons from this.
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Also keep in mind though, he's in Vietnam. Lots of cultural differences that may explain some of his thought processes.
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stop worrying about this woman and meet some other women.
Super-Simple. Super-Basic Technique #1
i have a couple of ferraro rochet chocolates with me. if i like a woman i just give her 1 and say "hi". if she responds positively the relationship advances. smile, say "hi" and start some small talk. if she does not respond positively .. its over.
Concrete Example
it is the middle of May and the temperature is 5C. its fucking freezing man. I was watching a basketball game at a sports bar and nodded to a girl near me who was with a giant group of friends. She smiled back. i handed her a chocolate She smiled and thanked me for the chocolate. A cold wind came thru as someone opened the door to the SportsBar as she thanked me. ....i said to her"what the hell happened to global warming?". She laughed.
So simple man. keep it simple. Keep it light. Have fun. Stop analyzing this shit out of everything.
Right now, you are suffering from "Paralysis By Analysis"
Meeting women is supposed to be silly, stupid fun. its not multi-dimensional calculus.
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Meeting women is supposed to be silly, stupid fun. its not multi-dimensional calculus ahahahahahahha you funny jimmy :D
On topic? : i see warmth in you Garnet, i see want or desire dare i say it need to apply that warmth and that is good!
What to do with her? (by the way that's a derogatory turn of phrase)
.. i don't know, for those answers i would have to slip in the "future" / calling shots mode.. and that's both the worst and the best thing about this? (for you if you were to think of it / your "ordeal")
You want to love someone and found someone you want to try to do something about it with, that seems impossible but that doesn't mean you can't hope for it to work one day..?
or worse, you just want to help her like a sister you wanted to have? even though you are smitten with her...
the conundrum is that you think you can .. but possibly secretly hope she will take this "benefactor attitude" to heart and start to reciprocate..
and it could happen...
but again, you cannot build a relationship on unequal ground...!
i mean you can and it obviously happens quite more than people would allow themselves to accept/face.. but the fact it does happen doesn't mean that "it works", that both parties are happy inside..?!
Your "next girl", that's the thing you want to get your head around, the thing you need?
.. for sure discussing your then "new" relationship with a girl will be the test.. discussing it with your previous "friend" (the girl you "don't know what to do with")..
there and then you will start seeing the things the people on this forum are talking about...
then and there you will see who you are .. who she is, maybe.
As jimmy put it .. it ain"t rocket science.. i would just add "good luck to us all" on that front.
Again, blogging is mostly typing to yourself, no? finding a venue where when you can be yourself and having done it you feel somewhat "better"?!
Careful because that warmth i was referencing is both good and bad.. good because you realize that you need others and to interact with them, but very bad because this is not a trivial thing.. this is uproar awaiting, this is all your insides coming outside..
and all that needs to come out, but it should come out as a good thing making you into the best person you can be.. but without a caring proper "social circle" to do it in.. it will turn sour :/
good luck with the red pill
![[image loading]](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/RhlXqYiTz2Q/hqdefault.jpg)
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On May 15 2019 01:20 Ryzel wrote:
Your mindset still seems off. You shouldn’t be focusing on you so that you can get girls, you should be focusing on you because it’s what you truly want for yourself.
As a starter, how do YOU feel about the fact that your hair is long and greasy? Is it something you didn’t care about until she brought it up?
I don't like greasy hair but fine with long hair. Though after she mentioned it I felt like cutting it. It's getting really hot anyway.
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On May 15 2019 04:35 fishjie wrote:
UGH its like you ignored everybody's advice in the last blog. i am now just reading to watch the train wreck. she has no interest in you. how many more clear signals do you need? you actually INCREASED your neediness from last time. the wall of text confirms it even more. now you're into full creeper territory trying to force a girl to hug you who clearly told you no multiple times
avilo is that you??????
User was warned for this post.
This happened before I read any comment in the last thread.
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On May 15 2019 05:24 L_Master wrote:Show nested quote +Me: Sorry, I was too childish.
Her: You should go and have a rest.
Me: Yeah, good night. Don't forget to sleep at 00:30 (we talked about the REM sleep cycles thingy, and I calculated the best time for her to go to bed was 00:30 since she gets up at 6:50).
Her: I have to do some work so I'll probably won't make it. Good night.
Me: Sorry for being so stubborn back then. I'll go ahead and sleep first.
Her: Yes. Again. The translated version of her responses: Her: Fuck off.I don't want to talk to you. Her: Dude. Stop talking to me and telling me shit. Her: Good boy. Fuck off. She is incredibly terse and giving you nothing. Probably desperately hoping you will not talk to her ever again. Show nested quote +But what should I do about her? I care about her even more now after today. I work for a big education company (just a normal employee though) so I might be able to help her teaching job in some ways, but it will be like once a month. Should I keep talking to her or just leave her be?
P.S. I used to dislike her because of her innocent, "soft" way of talking, but now I realize they're precious treasures. Oh man. I don't even know where to start. Lots of girls are like her, this is neither rare, nor a "precious treasure. Why on earth do you care about a girl who actively dislikes like you and has ZERO interest in you? Your choice but sounds crappy to me to hang out and spend time with a girl who you like but she has zero affection or interest in you. Because of what you have done though. you absolutely need to STOP TALKING TO HER. Number one, she doesn't like you. You can even see the change of tone in her posts. She went from "okay guy to talk to but not attracted to" -> "this fucking creep, go away". You screwed the pooch on this one. Hard. Let it go. For both your sake and for hers. Where do you go from here?Your first, and only, real chance is to recognize that you're badly miscalibrated socially. You aren't aware of this, so this probably comes as a shock, probably hurts, and probably feels like we are all being quite rude to you. Your thoughts, your responses, and especially your behaviors show a strong bit of entitlement (she should date me, I'm going to go check on her at her house, making her talk to me, forcing a hug, "setting her straight" about how she thinks, "talking sense into her", etc. are all entititled, very bad, immature behaviors) and a total lack of ability to read and pick up on social cues. Basically, you need to re-learn how social interaction works. Maybe you understand it in a work context, or a guy-guy context. I don't know. What I do know if that you have zero idea of how to read, respond to, understand, and act around women (and likely guys, they are just more likely to be direct). Best thing I can think of is to read a bunch of information. Start hanging out in the dating thread and reading anything you can get your hands on online. I'd also try to make one or two friends that are highly social people, and ideally do well with women. Talk to them all the time. Ask them questions. Go out with them, and when you do, observe the interaction. Observe what people say to them, how they say it, and how your friends react. What you have had of you is not an easy task, but it's the only way you have of making any progress. If you need any evidence of just how bad your missing the social script, just look at your last blog. Number 2 in this series. EVERY single person told you the same stuff. Many of the responses were so shocked that they were harsh or strong response. There was no grey area. Everyone agrees, and you're the only one that doesn't see it. Which is my point, you don't see socially what everyone else sees and perceive what they perceive.
You're most definitely right. I didn't even speak to anyone during my four years of middle school. Both my parents are really bad at social interaction, so I guess their son would turn out to be like this. I will try to follow the advice in these threads and report back later. Thank you so much.
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On May 15 2019 18:07 fluidrone wrote:Show nested quote +Meeting women is supposed to be silly, stupid fun. its not multi-dimensional calculus ahahahahahahha you funny jimmy :D On topic? : i see warmth in you Garnet, i see want or desire dare i say it need to apply that warmth and that is good! What to do with her? (by the way that's a derogatory turn of phrase) .. i don't know, for those answers i would have to slip in the "future" / calling shots mode.. and that's both the worst and the best thing about this? (for you if you were to think of it / your "ordeal") You want to love someone and found someone you want to try to do something about it with, that seems impossible but that doesn't mean you can't hope for it to work one day..? or worse, you just want to help her like a sister you wanted to have? even though you are smitten with her... the conundrum is that you think you can .. but possibly secretly hope she will take this "benefactor attitude" to heart and start to reciprocate.. and it could happen... but again, you cannot build a relationship on unequal ground...! i mean you can and it obviously happens quite more than people would allow themselves to accept/face.. but the fact it does happen doesn't mean that "it works", that both parties are happy inside..?! Your "next girl", that's the thing you want to get your head around, the thing you need? .. for sure discussing your then "new" relationship with a girl will be the test.. discussing it with your previous "friend" (the girl you "don't know what to do with").. there and then you will start seeing the things the people on this forum are talking about... then and there you will see who you are .. who she is, maybe. As jimmy put it .. it ain"t rocket science.. i would just add "good luck to us all" on that front. Again, blogging is mostly typing to yourself, no? finding a venue where when you can be yourself and having done it you feel somewhat "better"?! Careful because that warmth i was referencing is both good and bad.. good because you realize that you need others and to interact with them, but very bad because this is not a trivial thing.. this is uproar awaiting, this is all your insides coming outside.. and all that needs to come out, but it should come out as a good thing making you into the best person you can be.. but without a caring proper "social circle" to do it in.. it will turn sour :/ good luck with the red pill
Your post is like a messy poem haha. May I ask what is your profession?
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On May 15 2019 22:14 Garnet wrote:Show nested quote +On May 15 2019 18:07 fluidrone wrote:Meeting women is supposed to be silly, stupid fun. its not multi-dimensional calculus ahahahahahahha you funny jimmy :D On topic? : i see warmth in you Garnet, i see want or desire dare i say it need to apply that warmth and that is good! What to do with her? (by the way that's a derogatory turn of phrase) .. i don't know, for those answers i would have to slip in the "future" / calling shots mode.. and that's both the worst and the best thing about this? (for you if you were to think of it / your "ordeal") You want to love someone and found someone you want to try to do something about it with, that seems impossible but that doesn't mean you can't hope for it to work one day..? or worse, you just want to help her like a sister you wanted to have? even though you are smitten with her... the conundrum is that you think you can .. but possibly secretly hope she will take this "benefactor attitude" to heart and start to reciprocate.. and it could happen... but again, you cannot build a relationship on unequal ground...! i mean you can and it obviously happens quite more than people would allow themselves to accept/face.. but the fact it does happen doesn't mean that "it works", that both parties are happy inside..?! Your "next girl", that's the thing you want to get your head around, the thing you need? .. for sure discussing your then "new" relationship with a girl will be the test.. discussing it with your previous "friend" (the girl you "don't know what to do with").. there and then you will start seeing the things the people on this forum are talking about... then and there you will see who you are .. who she is, maybe. As jimmy put it .. it ain"t rocket science.. i would just add "good luck to us all" on that front. Again, blogging is mostly typing to yourself, no? finding a venue where when you can be yourself and having done it you feel somewhat "better"?! Careful because that warmth i was referencing is both good and bad.. good because you realize that you need others and to interact with them, but very bad because this is not a trivial thing.. this is uproar awaiting, this is all your insides coming outside.. and all that needs to come out, but it should come out as a good thing making you into the best person you can be.. but without a caring proper "social circle" to do it in.. it will turn sour :/ good luck with the red pill Your post is like a messy poem haha. May I ask what is your profession?
He is a professional shitposter.
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On May 15 2019 21:47 Garnet wrote:Show nested quote +On May 15 2019 04:35 fishjie wrote:
UGH its like you ignored everybody's advice in the last blog. i am now just reading to watch the train wreck. she has no interest in you. how many more clear signals do you need? you actually INCREASED your neediness from last time. the wall of text confirms it even more. now you're into full creeper territory trying to force a girl to hug you who clearly told you no multiple times
avilo is that you??????
User was warned for this post. This happened before I read any comment in the last thread.
you posted in the last thread on may 13, you made this thread on may 14, what do you mean it happened before you read any comment in the last one? sounds like you stubbornly ignored what everyone said. she's not into you. hopefully you actually listen, because she pretty much directly told you as much as possible that she wants nothing to do with you. leave her alone. dont try to hug her
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On May 15 2019 22:14 Garnet wrote:Show nested quote +On May 15 2019 18:07 fluidrone wrote:Meeting women is supposed to be silly, stupid fun. its not multi-dimensional calculus ahahahahahahha you funny jimmy :D On topic? : i see warmth in you Garnet, i see want or desire dare i say it need to apply that warmth and that is good! What to do with her? (by the way that's a derogatory turn of phrase) .. i don't know, for those answers i would have to slip in the "future" / calling shots mode.. and that's both the worst and the best thing about this? (for you if you were to think of it / your "ordeal") You want to love someone and found someone you want to try to do something about it with, that seems impossible but that doesn't mean you can't hope for it to work one day..? or worse, you just want to help her like a sister you wanted to have? even though you are smitten with her... the conundrum is that you think you can .. but possibly secretly hope she will take this "benefactor attitude" to heart and start to reciprocate.. and it could happen... but again, you cannot build a relationship on unequal ground...! i mean you can and it obviously happens quite more than people would allow themselves to accept/face.. but the fact it does happen doesn't mean that "it works", that both parties are happy inside..?! Your "next girl", that's the thing you want to get your head around, the thing you need? .. for sure discussing your then "new" relationship with a girl will be the test.. discussing it with your previous "friend" (the girl you "don't know what to do with").. there and then you will start seeing the things the people on this forum are talking about... then and there you will see who you are .. who she is, maybe. As jimmy put it .. it ain"t rocket science.. i would just add "good luck to us all" on that front. Again, blogging is mostly typing to yourself, no? finding a venue where when you can be yourself and having done it you feel somewhat "better"?! Careful because that warmth i was referencing is both good and bad.. good because you realize that you need others and to interact with them, but very bad because this is not a trivial thing.. this is uproar awaiting, this is all your insides coming outside.. and all that needs to come out, but it should come out as a good thing making you into the best person you can be.. but without a caring proper "social circle" to do it in.. it will turn sour :/ good luck with the red pill Your post is like a messy poem haha. May I ask what is your profession?
i am a gigolo,
some people call it artist but i wouldn't trust them 
i wouldnt trust mmm.. for instance this guy who hates me for being on tl (possibly anywhere) and seems to think insulting me is a good idea
lol
v
On May 16 2019 00:45 Jealous wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On May 15 2019 22:14 Garnet wrote:Show nested quote +On May 15 2019 18:07 fluidrone wrote:Meeting women is supposed to be silly, stupid fun. its not multi-dimensional calculus ahahahahahahha you funny jimmy :D On topic? : i see warmth in you Garnet, i see want or desire dare i say it need to apply that warmth and that is good! What to do with her? (by the way that's a derogatory turn of phrase) .. i don't know, for those answers i would have to slip in the "future" / calling shots mode.. and that's both the worst and the best thing about this? (for you if you were to think of it / your "ordeal") You want to love someone and found someone you want to try to do something about it with, that seems impossible but that doesn't mean you can't hope for it to work one day..? or worse, you just want to help her like a sister you wanted to have? even though you are smitten with her... the conundrum is that you think you can .. but possibly secretly hope she will take this "benefactor attitude" to heart and start to reciprocate.. and it could happen... but again, you cannot build a relationship on unequal ground...! i mean you can and it obviously happens quite more than people would allow themselves to accept/face.. but the fact it does happen doesn't mean that "it works", that both parties are happy inside..?! Your "next girl", that's the thing you want to get your head around, the thing you need? .. for sure discussing your then "new" relationship with a girl will be the test.. discussing it with your previous "friend" (the girl you "don't know what to do with").. there and then you will start seeing the things the people on this forum are talking about... then and there you will see who you are .. who she is, maybe. As jimmy put it .. it ain"t rocket science.. i would just add "good luck to us all" on that front. Again, blogging is mostly typing to yourself, no? finding a venue where when you can be yourself and having done it you feel somewhat "better"?! Careful because that warmth i was referencing is both good and bad.. good because you realize that you need others and to interact with them, but very bad because this is not a trivial thing.. this is uproar awaiting, this is all your insides coming outside.. and all that needs to come out, but it should come out as a good thing making you into the best person you can be.. but without a caring proper "social circle" to do it in.. it will turn sour :/ good luck with the red pill Your post is like a messy poem haha. May I ask what is your profession? He is a professional shitposter.
They have no grasp on reality and they hate people who do 
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It's been a while since a good Girl Blog! Garnet, it's good that you're working through this, keep at it! Don't listen to the people insulting you or taking away hope — they're unsupportive and are mocking you for sport. Which is shameful; 10 years ago the internet was a different place, "Incel" didn't exist, and TL was kinder than this.
Allow me to edit this recent BW article into a gaming metaphor (it may be a bit cringe but this IS a StarCraft forum after all).
1. You generally have good control over one or two builds/styles that you've practiced a tonne [computers, making effort focused on her, maybe even bceing 'good looking'],
2. but I can tell now after learning a lot of stuff here you don’t really understand scouting and altering your build path enough. Basic stuff like correct drone distribution balance of attention given and received, is often a big mistake in your play and was definitely a huge weakness of mine in the past. Just the early game economy social interaction management and timings are something you often do massively wrong, which spirals your build out of control.
3. And then you rely on all sorts of weird gimmicks to get back in the game instead of fixing your overall underlying problems.
If you have these flaws in how you approach StarCraft, that may shed some insights on your personality, and how well you do in tense interactions.
1. There are some things you have going for you - you have a car, a job, and are 'out there' in the world (rather than being a total recluse who doesn't have enough confidence to even dare to talk to girls).
2. But there are other important things you still need to progress in. I would say the biggest one is confidence. If you were stronger and more stable within yourself, you'd be able to take rejection when necessary, but also be able to give her support without being desperate for her attention or touch.
3. I like micro more than macro because its more fun and interesting, whereas macro is repetitive and not as flashy. But some things are simply more important than others (microing my heart out with a handful of units will do nothing against 3x as many units just a-moved). I don't like it either, but that's how it is. The same goes for putting all your effort into things that don't have the biggest effect: planning exactly the 'right' words or moves, organizing your one single evening to meet, needing this girl because you feel you need to rush 4-pool all-in because it's been so long since your last match and it doesn't feel like you have any other options. Our gimmicks are micro, where we should really focus is our underlying problems.
So what are your overall underlying problems? The biggest one we all face is we can't usually answer this (self-awareness) question about our-self. Which is why it's good you're reaching out for advice and support.
Try to go through what people have suggested, to identify A. what are the signs of the underlying problem B. what do you need to learn to not have that problem anymore C. how to practice, what specific things can you do to improve?
Again, plenty of comments are just negative, without helping you identify the actual misunderstandings or how to work through them. But here is some advice:
Coming back to Confidence (from 2.)
A. the signs that you aren't confident about this situation is seen in your reaction to the fact that it hasn't turned out the way you want to: you worry about it and try to make every (desperate) effort possible to try to 'fix' it.
B. what you've failed to understand is that she's free, you can't actually do any amount of effort to force her to love you, trust you, or be attracted to you. You may want to, but it doesn't work like that. You could be the coolest, hottest, most down-to-earth guy in the world, but if a girl doesn't like you, you can't succeed in forcing her to like you. It's got to be natural, she's got to want to, she's got to freely choose you.
C. so instead of trying to convince her, trick her, impress her, or prove to her why she should like you (micro) — you should just become a like-able person! Work on your overall life mechanics and macro. Focus on being more financially stable and socially strong. If your work is taking 100% of your focus right now, get gud/efficient, plan ahead your meals and your workload and laundry so that all the normal things you've got to handle for life only take up 60% of your effort. That gives you 40% space to have a social life — reconnect with old friends, attend group social events (sports, church, gaming, scouts, societies). This gives you social exposure (which you say you've lacked) to practice and develop the awareness you've been missing. It helps having friends see how you act in those settings who afterwards give you feedback e.g. helping you see yourself from outside, which things you said worked well or when you turned people off. Don't worry that "they're all airheads", having superficial friends you're not super into is still better than having no friends at all. We all need people to eat food with, people to talk to, people to attend events with, even if we don't have much in common. Group events massively increase the number of girls you have exposure to, which means more options and more practice. Of course it'll be stressful and awkward at first, it may feel unnatural, it might challenge you to change some things in order to adapt. But that might actually be worth it! Loneliness/isolation is both a cause and an effect of more loneliness, the only way out is to make small efforts, put on the training wheels, do a little, fight the urge to give up, and build it into a habit, and eventually change your life and person.
Right now, you're not able to love, because you can't see and understand the situation enough to know when you're going "too far". I think it's more lust than love. So taking these challenges and learning to change is great — it enables you to be strong and to love, and to not only 'get' or 'take' from girls/people, but eventually to be able to 'give' or 'support'. ONLY Once you're more developed can you dedicate 60% work 20% social 20% significant other. Before you can manage to keep a girlfriend and contribute to her life, make her happy, and get along well with her friends ... you first need to be able to do that with your own friends. If you don't already have people you relate closely with in your life, start there, because a girlfriend needs all the same basics but comes with more stress and drama. There's no shortcut, it progresses in this order. That's exactly why she was asking if you've had a girlfriend before because if the answer is 'no' then it basically means you're inexperienced. Which is fine, if that's the truth don't be ashamed of it, everyone starts somewhere, and we'll get to what steps you can take. But please understand: she won't solve all of your problems, she isn't your therapist or your savior. She's her own person with her own issues, and will be happy to be nice to you and keep you company, but it's not fair for you to dump your problems and weaknesses on her when in fact they're yours to sort out.
I used to struggle with conforming, I didn't want to make any changes to my look or my behavior, because I wanted people to accept me exactly as I was. I would wear overly-bright colors and funny hats, and act strange. And in some sense that's legitimate. I spent my time living and expressing myself exactly how I wanted. Perhaps the same can be said of you and your long hair. But gradually I realized this was pushing people away before they had enough time to get accustomed to me. Thus because I cared more about connection than individualism, I decided to make the effort to learn to conform. I still have lots of my old weird clothes and hats, I can totally choose to wear them if I want to, I haven't lost that and my identity hasn't died. But dressing more normally, acting more normally, and learning better social skills of how to respond to what people are saying and actually take an interest in them, enabled me to make lots more friends, including girls. It makes you more flexible (like having a more versatile play-style). I know I'm not 'normal', certainly not, the sport I watched growing up was Korean professional gaming, and I still love it, and I unashamedly tell that to people (when it fits the conversation). Not ONCE have I found someone IRL who connects with that and reciprocates, but so what? It's confidence that lets you get away with being yourself and liking whatever you want. When you know how to act normal, rather than overwhelming people, they'll feel less unsure and get to trust you sooner, after which you can then gradually reveal more of what you're really like, and but by that point they're much more likely to stick-around.
So, you're not forced to cut your hair just to please the people around you thinking "If only I obey them and do what they say, then they'll like me.". That'd be an insecure thing to do. There are plenty of appealing confident people with long hair. There are also plenty of unappealing insecure people with long hair (I know multiple 'computer people' like this). But, if you do want to keep your long hair, you'll need to put enough effort so that it doesn't seem unattractive. She explicitly told you to wash your hair more. It doesn't matter if you think it's greasy or not, if girls think that, just wash your darn hair. Sometimes you've just got to make basic efforts if you want to be 'attractive enough'. You need to make some effort to be more appealing, so the first step is deciding that that effort is worth it.
I know having long hair takes time to grow, and has an awkward transition phase, so maybe you'd want to keep it. But you could also embark on a more dramatic change, and cutting one's hair is a classic way to do that. Is having long hair actually a choice? Or is it just a habit that you're comfortable with, and you lack the confidence to risk trying something outside your comfort zone? Are you rocking it, or are you hiding behind it? If you're hiding, if you're too scared to make that choice, that shows you lack confidence, so take this as a step to build confidence. You can either avoid these sorts of struggles and be trapped and miserable, or you can gradually work through them and build up your APM/stamina with practice. (To quote White-Ra "more GG more skill"). I know it's hard to make new friends as a young adult, but think about it, that's actually exactly what you want to do if you're looking for a girlfriend. So get out there, do what you need to do, take the challenges, take losses, more losses, but learn from them, keep practicing, keep going, and you'll learn and grow! The people around you didn't learn these social skills overnight, they spent all of high school and college. If you haven't caught up yet, well, get on it now. You can't change your past, but you can change the path you take from now on. For example if you've dedicated yourself to learning how to play StarCraft properly, that proves you already know exactly how to go through a challenging learning period, which doesn't happen overnight, but through repeated losses and lessons you eventually catch up. (It helps to have gosus around you to inspire you and learn from). You actually have advantages if you're a late-starter (compared to high school) in learning social integration: you have more intelligence, you have more money to go do fun things like rock climbing or the cinema, the people you'll be around are less insecure and more mature so they're easier to make friends with, they're more confident so they can give honest truthful feedback, and they have better interpersonal understanding so they can give you better quality feedback. Go get 'em!
So the main one is confidence. Ideally you wouldn't feel resentful or desperate if a girl doesn't like you. You should be living a worthwhile life, being a positive influence with your friends, and being happy by yourself, irrespective of the girl. (Otherwise you're too thirsty and at risk of becoming needy, dependent, and addicted to her, which isn't good to her.) If she doesn't like you, sure that's kinda sad and it hurts your ego a bit, but ultimately, focus on being such a boss that it's her loss [not yours]. Or, to quote the 'legendary girl blog poster' Fanatacist from a decade ago when I was going through this myself: "Don't give a fuck". (Damn, time files doesn't it ILOVEKITTENS?) If you can't be happy without her you won't be happy with her. It seems like a paradox but it's true. Being able to be happy without her means you're not in survival mode, so you can make good long-term decisions. If you're unable to be happy without a girl, but you don't have a girl, you'll be miserable, thus unable to make good long-term decisions, so you won't progress enough to get/keep a girl, so you'll stay miserable. People who are poor but win the lottery usually end up poor again because they haven't learned the rich-people mental balance and restraint needed to play it cool with their money. Same with loneliness vs. social wealth, if you're not socially 'good', chances are you'll have a very rocky volatile immature unhealthy relationship, whereas if you're calm and stable, that's exactly what you need if you want to get/keep/support a girlfriend and exactly what you learn from having friend groups.
Now, some quick pointers:
Being desperate (we've effectively addressed this one already) ≠ act like a gentleman
A. Signs: feeling like she's your only option, setting a goal that you need to "get touch"
B. Understand: you're too thirsty right now, your thirst is too strong. So you'll drink and drink and take and take from her but never give and never give up, not realizing how that feels for her until its too late and you've over-drunk and squeezed her affection dry (see this scene where he thinks he's not drinking but that's because the demon in the suit is messing with his perception, and he actually drinks himself to death).
C. Actions: Work on reducing your thirst. Less thoughts, less talk, more actions. Macro up your daily life, become socially balanced and like-able, and after that, [i]anyone[/] would have good reason to find you attractive!
Stalking/"where are you"/calling out her bullshit/nagging/begging/over-texting ≠ being more forgiving
A. Signs: you can see her priorities by how much attention she pays you. If spending time with you was something that was precious and exciting for her, she'd prioritize it, she'd look forward to it, she'd do her fucking laundry at a different time. Use empathy to simulate her emotions to interpret her actions: you prioritize her and tell the truth because you're interested. She's doing the opposite: avoiding you and making up shit excuses, which is the logical behavior of someone who is not interested in you. (Now, honest mistakes do happen, especially when people are under tons of burdens and stress, we'll talk about that next). Dating before texting arrived had clearer boundaries: if it'd be too awkward to say to her face or say in a voice call, you're not at a stage when you can say it at all, sorry. But texts allow unhealthy levels of guaranteed access — a privilege you haven't earned and should discipline yourself to not abuse. If you're unable to keep your hands off her or off her DMs, that shows you can't control herself to respect her boundaries and privacy, which is good reason for her to feel uncomfortable that you can't control yourself meaning you're untrustworthy.
Sidenote on stalker behavior: when it's a choice between you getting what you want, and her feeling safe, always choose the think that makes her feel safe. If she trusts you, she'll choose to let you in, but until then it's quite reasonable for her to be careful and self-protective because a girl being nice to a guy carries many more risks than a guy being nice to a girl (for the record I don't endorse that author). Don't put her in uncomfortable situations where she feels trapped, don't violate her sense of physical safety, don't insist on crossing into her safe zone. Respect it and defend it, otherwise you're (rightfully) not welcome there. Her home, workplace, and phone are her (safe)zone. If you want access to her, ask (don't take), offer something interesting and worth her time, and be someone who's worth her time.
B. Understand: She should want you, she should be interested in you, she should be attracted to you. If she isn't, paying her more attention and trying to force her to like you isn't going to help. At best, you'll get pity, but that's not respect. One doesn't beg for respect, one earns it. You can't force her to like you, but you can put effort into improving yourself so that any girl would be attracted to you.
C. Actions: What you've said is quite true, currently you aren't forgiving, you're not able to do that, it's not a choice you can make .... because you haven't built up your tech tree enough to make Ghosts. But that doesn't mean making Ghosts is impossible, it's just not possible right now. So work at it! Do the actions suggested above.
"Work hard"/money/she's too stressed
A. Signs: Frankly I'm surprised she followed-through and met again with you. Let's be clear: this was not a date, you did not earn it or deserve it. It was a mercy, a favor, don't take it for granted because it isn't a promise that there's more to come. It's a "sorry, I don't want to hurt your feelings, but I really need you to understand that you're not ready for me right now". How can you tell? Because you needed to beg for it, and you were desperate for it. If it was chill and all good, you could wait a week or two. But the stress and tension and drama proves it's already falling apart before it even starts.
Also, the fact that she shared some personal stuff with you is not a "I love you", it's a "I trust you". Notice that, acknowledge that, respect that. Treat her well. She confided in you that she's really struggling with money, and with family stress. (For the record, respecting that means respecting confidentiality, so, probably not writing about it on a pseudonymous internet forum). She does sound very over-worked meaning she isn't managing to Macro her own life even at 100% focus, so there isn't enough space in there for you right now, sorry. The fact that she's considering being dead means it's really tearing her apart. It would be so good if you gained the social knowledge to know how to support her.
B. Understand. What's the right thing to do in this situation? Beg her for more attention? Boss her around and nag her about things that are high on your priority list? Try to "get touch"? For that last one, I suspect it's something like "I'm getting frustrated that this isn't going the way I want it to, so I'm going to gamble all-in on escalating the intimacy, forcing her to either A. touch me, or B. slap me. I'm so bad at hearing her say she doesn't like me, or I'm so desperately unable to deal with that, that I need her to physically fight me until I get the fucking point and back off."
C. Actions: Dude, just be kind to her. But in this situation, being kind to her means respecting her choices and desires, which currently means taking some distance so that you can get stronger. Don't buy her flowers, don't pay her more attention, don't stick yourself into her life, don't put her in situations where she's forced to respond or pay you attention (don't ask her questions, make plans without a response, and then guilt her into interacting with you). Just learn to understand people so that you can understand her, learn to support her, become stable, reliable, and trustworthy enough that you're actually able to support her. Oh and I'm getting some pretty strong hints here that she's insecure about her finances, and would feel reassured to be with someone who "works hard". (Don't become a workaholic, but don't be slacking either). So go through the fight of making more money, so that you would actually be able to take care of her financially too. She's not there to be grabbed, used, or leeched-from, she's there to be loved (consensually, within her rules and boundaries).
So in conclusion, leave her be. If you feel lonely and empty from being away from her, distribute that passion and energy more evenly across meeting a new social group (and, reconnecting with family and old friends, make a list of the top 50 people you want to keep in your life). Set yourself a goal: no contact for 3 months, cut hair, update look, do some fitness thing at least once a week, attend a social event at least once-twice each week, and reserve one night a week (e.g. Sunday night) for calling friends/family cycling through the list. If you really can't resist texting her, delete her number and unfriend her (tell her you're doing this and that you'll reconnect in 3 months once you're doing better). If you're unwilling to do this step, if you're desperate to hold onto her, that's exactly the evidence that you're clinging too tightly before it's even begun, and that you need other sources of support beyond her, to not inadvertently choke her.
Building your confidence and doing all of this doesn't compromise your identity, it strengthens it, and makes you actually able to love (not just lust).
[3.6k words LOL]
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EPT
