On May 21 2015 13:35 Bryce241 wrote: not a lot of drama here except for the HolyMaster part. move along people, nothing to see here.
I'd rather not. There are certain things worth hashing out.
I see it as impossible for both majors to be in East asia. The 3 majors have to qualify people for TI so it has to be one in that region, one in CIS/EU and one in the Americas.
THe problem though is where should it be hosted? Generally I think the only great places to host it in East Asia are Hong Kong, Korea and Macau.
Hong Kong is a more prestigious city and gives the least amount of problems for the Chinese teams. Drawback is that Hong Kong is extremely expensive place to host a tournament. Korea has Nexon and they know how to host tournaments. Getting proper visas though is hard. Macau has the most lax visa requirements even though it is officially part of China so it makes it a great converging point for any country. OTOH their infrastructure might be lacking.
EU/CIS is equally hard to place. So many teams are from CIS alone so Poland might be the most sensible location but their visa requirements are fairly strict. Serbia has some of the most lax requirements but that countries infrastructure is pretty bad. Ireland is reasonable when it comes to visa requirements and their infrastructure is great but the cost for CIS teams is much higher than a major hosted in a mainland EU/Asia country.
Americas is a more binary issue. Host it mainland North America and make it hard for people to travel or host it in South America and have us northerners spend money along with anyone else in the Eastern Hemisphere.
I hope Valve is putting a lot of though on how these majors can be structured as open events instead of only looking at traditional event organizers.
------------------------------
I didn't have any complaints about the ads for the Summit other than that Power Rangers ad. After the 3rd time I began muting the stream every time it came on. Most people were complaining because they're used to adblocking everything but they can't adblock the stream
There was a legit complaint that there was less interaction with the players and I was hoping for some Twitch Chat interaction with one of the translators to help but other than that EE succinctly points out why there wasn't as much content. Player's weren't eliminated as quickly so they wanted to focus more on practicing.
Assuming the majors are the same way as they are in CS:GO, it will be a standarized format accross all 4 majors. So ESL has to go with the format Valve choses if they want the support from Valve to be a Major.
On May 21 2015 13:35 Bryce241 wrote: not a lot of drama here except for the HolyMaster part. move along people, nothing to see here.
I'd rather not. There are certain things worth hashing out.
I see it as impossible for both majors to be in East asia. The 3 majors have to qualify people for TI so it has to be one in that region, one in CIS/EU and one in the Americas.
THe problem though is where should it be hosted? Generally I think the only great places to host it in East Asia are Hong Kong, Korea and Macau.
Hong Kong is a more prestigious city and gives the least amount of problems for the Chinese teams. Drawback is that Hong Kong is extremely expensive place to host a tournament. Korea has Nexon and they know how to host tournaments. Getting proper visas though is hard. Macau has the most lax visa requirements even though it is officially part of China so it makes it a great converging point for any country. OTOH their infrastructure might be lacking.
EU/CIS is equally hard to place. So many teams are from CIS alone so Poland might be the most sensible location but their visa requirements are fairly strict. Serbia has some of the most lax requirements but that countries infrastructure is pretty bad. Ireland is reasonable when it comes to visa requirements and their infrastructure is great but the cost for CIS teams is much higher than a major hosted in a mainland EU/Asia country.
Americas is a more binary issue. Host it mainland North America and make it hard for people to travel or host it in South America and have us northerners spend money along with anyone else in the Eastern Hemisphere.
I hope Valve is putting a lot of though on how these majors can be structured as open events instead of only looking at traditional event organizers.
------------------------------
I didn't have any complaints about the ads for the Summit other than that Power Rangers ad. After the 3rd time I began muting the stream every time it came on. Most people were complaining because they're used to adblocking everything but they can't adblock the stream
There was a legit complaint that there was less interaction with the players and I was hoping for some Twitch Chat interaction with one of the translators to help but other than that EE succinctly points out why there wasn't as much content. Player's weren't eliminated as quickly so they wanted to focus more on practicing.
you are randomly picking country names you like and think majors should be hosted there because of what exactly?
Generally I think the only great places to host it in East Asia are Hong Kong, Korea and Macau.
uhmm, what about the biggest dota country, you know, CHINA. or other places that come to mind regarding dota like singapur or malaysia?
EU/CIS is equally hard to place. So many teams are from CIS alone so Poland might be the most sensible location but their visa requirements are fairly strict. Serbia has some of the most lax requirements but that countries infrastructure is pretty bad. Ireland is reasonable when it comes to visa requirements and their infrastructure is great but the cost for CIS teams is much higher than a major hosted in a mainland EU/Asia country.
POLAND and CIS don't fit. rofl. serbia i don't even know how you chose the country. why not croatia? romania? bulgaria? irleand has no esports scene or maybe it's just not visible for non-irelanders. there are no tournaments is all you need to know about ireland. what about the obvious contenders? SWEDEN? GERMANY?
so while you say you want to discuss, why don't you put any thought into the countries you choose first?
On May 21 2015 13:35 Bryce241 wrote: not a lot of drama here except for the HolyMaster part. move along people, nothing to see here.
I'd rather not. There are certain things worth hashing out.
I see it as impossible for both majors to be in East asia. The 3 majors have to qualify people for TI so it has to be one in that region, one in CIS/EU and one in the Americas.
THe problem though is where should it be hosted? Generally I think the only great places to host it in East Asia are Hong Kong, Korea and Macau.
Hong Kong is a more prestigious city and gives the least amount of problems for the Chinese teams. Drawback is that Hong Kong is extremely expensive place to host a tournament. Korea has Nexon and they know how to host tournaments. Getting proper visas though is hard. Macau has the most lax visa requirements even though it is officially part of China so it makes it a great converging point for any country. OTOH their infrastructure might be lacking.
EU/CIS is equally hard to place. So many teams are from CIS alone so Poland might be the most sensible location but their visa requirements are fairly strict. Serbia has some of the most lax requirements but that countries infrastructure is pretty bad. Ireland is reasonable when it comes to visa requirements and their infrastructure is great but the cost for CIS teams is much higher than a major hosted in a mainland EU/Asia country.
Americas is a more binary issue. Host it mainland North America and make it hard for people to travel or host it in South America and have us northerners spend money along with anyone else in the Eastern Hemisphere.
I hope Valve is putting a lot of though on how these majors can be structured as open events instead of only looking at traditional event organizers.
------------------------------
I didn't have any complaints about the ads for the Summit other than that Power Rangers ad. After the 3rd time I began muting the stream every time it came on. Most people were complaining because they're used to adblocking everything but they can't adblock the stream
There was a legit complaint that there was less interaction with the players and I was hoping for some Twitch Chat interaction with one of the translators to help but other than that EE succinctly points out why there wasn't as much content. Player's weren't eliminated as quickly so they wanted to focus more on practicing.
you are randomly picking country names you like and think majors should be hosted there because of what exactly?
EU/CIS is equally hard to place. So many teams are from CIS alone so Poland might be the most sensible location but their visa requirements are fairly strict. Serbia has some of the most lax requirements but that countries infrastructure is pretty bad. Ireland is reasonable when it comes to visa requirements and their infrastructure is great but the cost for CIS teams is much higher than a major hosted in a mainland EU/Asia country.
POLAND and CIS don't fit. rofl. serbia i don't even know how you chose the country. why not croatia? romania? bulgaria? irleand has no esports scene or maybe it's just not visible for non-irelanders. there are no tournaments is all you need to know about ireland. what about the obvious contenders? SWEDEN? GERMANY?
so while you say you want to discuss, why don't you put any thought into the countries you choose first?
You ask why but immediately assume I'm wrong.
In the past I used to be annoyed about how many tournaments were invitationals. So I wondered what would it take to create an open format. When I got around to determining locations most of areas I selected are based on VISA requirements. You can't have an open tournament and pay for travel expenses but have some teams disqualified because the country they need to travel to has strict border rules. I also chose countries based on relative safety in relation to those lower travel restrictions.
Personally I would love to see a BTS/RedBull Major, because from your description it seems as if all of the players will be very relaxed and we may get better gameplay than an International due to less stress.
On the topic of Majors; I think it's a great idea to make larger LANs, and if there are good majors, it will make TI6 more than likely the most competitive and most fun TI because more teams will be prepared for a large scale LAN.
On May 21 2015 13:35 Bryce241 wrote: not a lot of drama here except for the HolyMaster part. move along people, nothing to see here.
I'd rather not. There are certain things worth hashing out.
I see it as impossible for both majors to be in East asia. The 3 majors have to qualify people for TI so it has to be one in that region, one in CIS/EU and one in the Americas.
THe problem though is where should it be hosted? Generally I think the only great places to host it in East Asia are Hong Kong, Korea and Macau.
Hong Kong is a more prestigious city and gives the least amount of problems for the Chinese teams. Drawback is that Hong Kong is extremely expensive place to host a tournament. Korea has Nexon and they know how to host tournaments. Getting proper visas though is hard. Macau has the most lax visa requirements even though it is officially part of China so it makes it a great converging point for any country. OTOH their infrastructure might be lacking.
EU/CIS is equally hard to place. So many teams are from CIS alone so Poland might be the most sensible location but their visa requirements are fairly strict. Serbia has some of the most lax requirements but that countries infrastructure is pretty bad. Ireland is reasonable when it comes to visa requirements and their infrastructure is great but the cost for CIS teams is much higher than a major hosted in a mainland EU/Asia country.
Americas is a more binary issue. Host it mainland North America and make it hard for people to travel or host it in South America and have us northerners spend money along with anyone else in the Eastern Hemisphere.
I hope Valve is putting a lot of though on how these majors can be structured as open events instead of only looking at traditional event organizers.
------------------------------
I didn't have any complaints about the ads for the Summit other than that Power Rangers ad. After the 3rd time I began muting the stream every time it came on. Most people were complaining because they're used to adblocking everything but they can't adblock the stream
There was a legit complaint that there was less interaction with the players and I was hoping for some Twitch Chat interaction with one of the translators to help but other than that EE succinctly points out why there wasn't as much content. Player's weren't eliminated as quickly so they wanted to focus more on practicing.
you are randomly picking country names you like and think majors should be hosted there because of what exactly?
Generally I think the only great places to host it in East Asia are Hong Kong, Korea and Macau.
uhmm, what about the biggest dota country, you know, CHINA. or other places that come to mind regarding dota like singapur or malaysia?
EU/CIS is equally hard to place. So many teams are from CIS alone so Poland might be the most sensible location but their visa requirements are fairly strict. Serbia has some of the most lax requirements but that countries infrastructure is pretty bad. Ireland is reasonable when it comes to visa requirements and their infrastructure is great but the cost for CIS teams is much higher than a major hosted in a mainland EU/Asia country.
POLAND and CIS don't fit. rofl. serbia i don't even know how you chose the country. why not croatia? romania? bulgaria? irleand has no esports scene or maybe it's just not visible for non-irelanders. there are no tournaments is all you need to know about ireland. what about the obvious contenders? SWEDEN? GERMANY?
so while you say you want to discuss, why don't you put any thought into the countries you choose first?
You ask why but immediately assume I'm wrong.
In the past I used to be annoyed about how many tournaments were invitationals. So I wondered what would it take to create an open format. When I got around to determining locations most of areas I selected are based on VISA requirements. You can't have an open tournament and pay for travel expenses but have some teams disqualified because the country they need to travel to has strict border rules. I also chose countries based on relative safety in relation to those lower travel restrictions.
I did my research.
it's because you are wrong and it's obvious by just listing the countries you propose. maybe you did some research on locations. but your conclussions still make 0 sense because you chose to ignore the dota (and esport) aspect and you just cherry pick countries you like while ignoring others. there is a reason Dreamhacks or ESLs are hosted in places Valencia, Stockholm or Bucharest and not in Ireland or Serbia or anywhere else you proposed with the exception of Poland (great ESLs) and Korea (obviously.. but IMHO unfitting for Dota). ignoring the player base is for sure not the best way to find a perfect tournament location.
I'd love to see BTS host a Majors. I think its a natural evolution of their studio. From being just a couple of casters, casting in their bedroom, to a group of people in a studio that cast games, to hosting a Lan tournament and then to finally hosting a Major. The BTS crew can ask Valve for help, maybe ask them for tips, have them be given the do's and don'ts, have them give them a crash course in organizing a major tournament. The good thing about BTS is they seem to be on the ball, that they learn from their mistakes, that they are willing to accept negative feedback and change for the better. And that they love the game and are passionate about it. They are invested in the continued success of Dota. You can trust them to do their best. They deserve a chance to be given such a great opportunity by Valve. To Envy, I'm glad that you've kept blogging inspite of all the insult thrown your way. I think and feel that you're the only one (maybe Aui too), from the players point of view, who has the guts to air all the grievance the professional scenes has, out in the open. You seems to really want the scene to improve, and as an avid fan of professional dota, I apprecciate it very much. You seem to have employed a beta reader, as this blog was very easy to read. P.S. Please remove the slurs and swearing. You can do better. :D
Actually The Summit 3 was the only DotaTV ticket I bought this year, simply because their (BTS) production quality, casting, and dedication to make the scene better are all great. That being said thanks to 6.84 and the resulting stomps/short matches the game quality and thus viewer experience wasn't that great. Nevertheless they did their best and the patch isn't their fault.
Only negative I have is actually related to C9, I was watching with a friend and notail, bone7 and fata were all commentating over each other, making it difficult for him to make out anything at times. I personally liked their disagreements as it gives more opinions and potential ways to look at situations, but them talking/shouting over each other really wasn't helpful. They really needed like one commentator at all times to help give the cast a better structure and organize it.
I agree RedBull format was bad. Otherwise viewer experience was good.
Majors are all speculation. Honestly I don't think Dota2 can ever compete with LoL in Korea so having an American, European and Chinese major respectively makes the most sense to me, as those are the 3 biggest scenes. Then again, TI is already held in America so....
Thanks for the post. I think that no matter what you're saying, you're right, because you are the Dota player. The tournaments should match your needs, as well as the fans. You have a lot of experience with the way tournaments are run and you know the math behind the formats.
Really I think the biggest point here is that they need to communicate and get opinions from players and needs from teams much more often and much earlier than the date of the event.
On May 21 2015 23:17 Denia1 wrote: Majors are all speculation. Honestly I don't think Dota2 can ever compete with LoL in Korea so having an American, European and Chinese major respectively makes the most sense to me, as those are the 3 biggest scenes. Then again, TI is already held in America so....
I don't consider TI being held in America, more like held in Seattle, because that's where Valve is located. Not having a major in America would do two great American esports organizations a disservice(RedBull and MLG). In my opinion, it's less about where the majors are and more about what organization would do the best job holding one.
On May 21 2015 23:17 Denia1 wrote: Majors are all speculation. Honestly I don't think Dota2 can ever compete with LoL in Korea so having an American, European and Chinese major respectively makes the most sense to me, as those are the 3 biggest scenes. Then again, TI is already held in America so....
I don't consider TI being held in America, more like held in Seattle, because that's where Valve is located. Not having a major in America would do two great American esports organizations a disservice(RedBull and MLG). In my opinion, it's less about where the majors are and more about what organization would do the best job holding one.
? I bet by ur logic DAC isn't held in china it's held in Shanghai and as such (insert chinese city here) totally deserves another major blah blah blah
keep in mind china is the same size as the US land-wise and has around 4x the population
Also keep in mind MLG has a miniscule dota pedigree at best and Redbull has done like 2 very small scale dota tournaments ever.
On May 21 2015 23:17 Denia1 wrote: Majors are all speculation. Honestly I don't think Dota2 can ever compete with LoL in Korea so having an American, European and Chinese major respectively makes the most sense to me, as those are the 3 biggest scenes. Then again, TI is already held in America so....
I don't consider TI being held in America, more like held in Seattle, because that's where Valve is located. Not having a major in America would do two great American esports organizations a disservice(RedBull and MLG). In my opinion, it's less about where the majors are and more about what organization would do the best job holding one.
As always, I'm quite amused by EE's post. And even more amused by the responses.
As to majors:
I'd guess that BTS would not even want to host a Major. Maybe I'm wrong but to my knowledge nobody in their organisation has any record/experience on running large scale (large audience) live events whatsoever? Not meant as an offense. I LOVE the Summit events. But it's like saying: "Hey Take, how about you run the european finals of sc2?" - maybe at some point BTS could grow into an orgnanisation that could handle something like that, but I'm not sure if they should even go into that direction. They have a very clear value proposition when being booked to cover an event, and run a nice small a-typical LAN once a year. Great.
So in North America that leaves us with 2 suggestions: RB and MLG: RB, is doing these events as a MARKETING STUNT - hell yes they do a good job, but it's still brand marketing, and I could never imagine Valve giving another completely unrelated comporation the rights to use a major for the sole purpose of promoting a soft drink. MLG, let's be honest, are well past their prime. They had some nice SC2 / Halo events, but have been struggling extremely from a business perspective. Maybe thay could get back on their feet with some valve money. But as people have rightly pointed out: they don't really have a dota2 record.
Which brings us to ESL. I think they are the obvious choice for EU, with starladder or dreamhack being close contenders. But what's more, they are also the obvious choice for NA. If EE checked the organisation out a bit, rather than arguing whether or not some rule is a bit better than another... ESL (or the company behind it) is the largest esports event operator in the western hemisphere - by far. They run the big events for Blizzard around the globe. Same for Riot. Same for Wargaming. They are more than qualified to carry out a number of Majors on differnt continents throughout the year. And will probably be doing exactly that - UNLESS, and that's a big unless, Valve for some reason does not want to work with the biggest player - which would be very Valve... so let's see.
EPT
