Everytime I write one of these blogs I always ask myself if it’s a good idea. Too much praise and flames and it gets me thinking sometimes. Ya it probably isn’t good for me but LMFAO wHo cAREAS HAHA Xd.
As always I apologize for my shit writing.
Also if I hurt your feelings in this blog, I don’t give a fuck. Thanks to those who properly read this blog, and to those that discuss about the points in it. To those who would use this blog as simply an excuse to attack me directly, go fuck yourselves.
RedBull Battle Grounds:
I would like to mention that although I’ll be pointing out a lot of negatives, I hope people don’t see it as flame directed towards them. I believe that RedBull actually had the right mentality going into this tournament. The tournament from a spectators perspective was simply amazing. When it came to the players however, the event was a disaster.
Well the first thing that’s on everyone's mind is of course the format. The format was definitely interesting but I feel like a lot of “interesting” formats could be made if someone put their mind into it. That doesn’t mean it’s a good thing. Well first off the tournament format for the playoffs was BO1 where each time had 3 lives, and when you lose one BO1 you lose a life. Each team would take turns challenging each other to remove each others lives till only two finalists remained. Each team also had one reflector that could redirect a challenge to another team when they are challenged.
I guess the good part about this format is that it's “interesting” or “refreshing” but lets be honest here this format is simply not meant for competitive play. The format is simply not fair at all. Although this didn’t happen because the tournament was played by cowards/idiots, the teams could potentially gang up on another team. Some people defended the format by saying that if they had 5 teams of equal skill level that it would be fine. But no matter what anyone says it’s very clear that there is a massive flaw in the format no matter which teams participate. Perhaps the 3 western teams could gang up on the other 2 asian teams. I mean DotA is a team game but there’s no way it should be a fucking team of teams game. There are potentially other fairness issues as well but I don’t find the need to explain it as the fairness flaw is clear.
The format is also very stressful for the players to play in. You are unable to truly prepare for matches as you can basically be challenged after every match. Because of how there’s no clear schedule, going out to eat, warming up in pubs, or whatever is basically a no go. This format simply forces players to sit there and watch every game because they could be challenged at any time by any of the teams.
Although there was a lot of problems, in my opinion it’s clear that RedBull tried to take good care of the players. They even booked nicer hotels for the players and sent all the casters/other staff to an INN (LMFAO, that’s kinda mean ><). They took the players Go Karting and nice places for dinner. They had a nice after party set up for the players as well. This might be the first after party where staff would look out for the drunk stupid players such as Arteezy. @Kaniwani928 throughout the entire event was very nice and helpful. She ran around the entire time doing whatever she could and stayed late enough at the after party to uber all the players back to the hotel.
The other major problem with the tournament was the lack of practice PCS. I believe there weren’t any for the playoffs (I only went to finals). The hard working players (Aka ARTEEZY WAO) played non stop at stupid pings with the hotel wifi. The day before the finals the players were asked to arrive at 11~12 for interviews/rehearsals and they were told that practice PCS would be available for down time. However the computers weren’t set up till 6 pm and no rehearsal was done on that day. Basically the players just sat there for 5-6 hours doing nothing. It was like waiting for a super delayed flight. Arteezy was baby raging nonstop and even IG who apparently never complains was raging.
Apparently RedBull was surprised by the need for practice PCS as their ESports comes from a starcraft II background and their players rarely need practice PCS. I would think that it’s because in Starcraft II they want to hide their strategies/build orders from rival players where as in DotA we don’t need to scrim we can just play pubs.
I feel like RedBull tried to have the right mentality by taking care of the players outside of the game, spending good money on them on the party, rides, food, hotel, and other expenses. Having ping pong and other games to play, being taken to Go-Karting, having a hotel near the beach, and other things. However, the one thing they didn’t understand was that the players don’t go to these events thinking about getting drunk, eating good food, going to the beach, or having fun at Go-Karting; they come to play DotA. It’s very nice to be given the opportunity to relax in these fun opportunities, but we also really need to have the option to focus as well.
Another problem was that for the finals 60 Hz monitors was used instead of the 144 Hz BenQ monitor they used for the playoffs. I feel like when it comes to monitors/computers/chairs/soundproof or whatever they should be somewhat standardized.
During the playoffs the two teams were sitting right across from each other, usually this would be disastrous but the soundproof headsets RedBull provided which also included microphones were amazing enough to disregard most of this. The usual setup for sound in non TI events is to wear your headset for the microphone on your neck, put on earbuds, and put another sound proof headset on top of the earbuds. The redbull headset covers all of that in one go. The microphones are also specifically designed so only voice from directly in front of it will be picked up. I feel like every event should be using the same or similar headsets. They aren’t that expensive as they will be reused in future events. Anyway, I still feel like having the teams sitting across from each other bad, this should generally not happen in events. Being able to destroy the other team’s communication by screaming should not be a thing, this is what happened to us at WEC (when not playing on stage). We would actually try to play across from EG whenever we could so our communication wouldn't be hindered by NaVi or the Chinese teams screaming.
When it came to the actual finals event, I was very impressed. The attendees were treated very well I thought. It was easily identifiable where the VIPs are located, where the normal attendees are, in general it was very easy navigating around. I would know, I wasn’t playing this time so I walked around for 2 hours meeting fans. I walked around the secret shop, checked out the outside line, the everything, the structure of the place was just good. In general a lot of things were really good. There was a place where the players could just relax, the private washrooms were easily accessible, meeting fans was easy, food/drinks were easy to get.
The production was the best I’ve ever seen from any tournament except TI. Inside the venue was beautiful. I don’t really know how to explain these things, it’s just very well colored inside, there are like players faces beamed onto windows and shit. One of the staff members had like this machine that shoots this liquid nitrogen thing into the air to cool the place if it ever gets to hot. The place didn’t feel stuffy at all or too hot/cold. They had good things to show in between games or something. Whatever RedBull did for production, it was good.
Summit 3:
Well to start it off I think the Summit 3 is one of the best events I’ve ever attended. I would say its Summit 3 = TI >>>>>> everything else. It might be true that not having the event at a big venue makes it a lot easier but regardless I think the event was amazing.
Practice PCs were available in both the hotel and the house enough for all the teams. The PCs all worked this time (Summit 2 LoL), and the schedule was on time.
The staff took care of the players extremely well. Starting from getting picked up from the airport to driving us back and forth from the hotel/house. There was always food available. BTS didn’t mind paying for hotels if players wanted to come a few days earlier to adjust their sleep schedules. Information about the venue, practice PCS, or whatever was available very early on. You would be surprised how many tournaments don’t tell you where you're even staying till like a week before the tournament. Practice PCS in the hotel was available a few days before the event started, a lan cafe was booked if players wanted to use that as well. The house practice PCS weren’t available till the day before the tournament though.
They used SSDs for their PCs so setting up was really fast, we even had them used for the practice PCs which has never been done in any other tournament. The practice PCs/Monitors were exactly the same as the tournament PCs/Monitors. The chairs for the practice area didn’t have arm rests though (the tournament PCs had DX Racers). That’s definitely a problem, but it’s actually one of the only problems I had for the event. One other issue is that the internet for one of the days was unstable for the hotel PCs.
For me the most important thing has always been mentality, and it's quite clear that the entire BTS staff wanted the tournament to be as good as possible. I’m not sure if there’s an easier way, but some tables were cut up and repainted so that each player would have their own table for matches. Each room had its own fan/air conditioning thing so that the room temperature could be properly adjusted and the PCs never had an issue. The reason to why I think their mentality is correct is because the above points were improvements from the previous tournament. Things were fixed without dilly dallying around. BTS went to a lot of players asking for what they need, I personally talked to Godz for awhile about the format of the tournament. It was never hard approaching any of their staff, they always looked happy to help. And people were always around and available. This western event had 3 Chinese teams, and all 3 safely made it here. There was actually a PAID translator (Josh and his GF) for once in a western event.
They accommodated for specific requests as well. Sumail has specific needs for food and BTS helped with that. We actually weren’t allowed to listen to music originally. But me and Conrad (my manager) fought really strongly about it and BTS listened to our request. They listened to my song (Puppet in the Dark, you welcome), the mp3 file and checked if I could cheat from it after that I could use it.
There was a thread made on reddit about the Summit viewing experience not being as good as previous iterations. I won’t argue whether that’s true or not but I feel like even if that was true it wasn't really on BTS.
The main reason to why players weren’t casting as much is because this tournament had 4 asian teams and a peruvian team. Only 3 teams and Jeyo/iceiceice could commentate. Other Summits all had 4 teams plus 1-2 players from the remaining two teams that could cast. Players also had practice PCs this time so we weren’t bored out of our minds. I basically only casted last time because I had nothing else to do. I casted this time because I wanted to and because I’m a loser. Another reason is the format of this season made it so that teams were only eliminated on the 3rd day. I believe the first summit had it so that teams could be eliminated earlier. Teams that are eliminated earlier could cast (LMFAO C9 CASTING TEAM).
Another major complaint was the amount of commercials and breaks. There definitely were more commercials this time but the main reason for this is the length of the games being played. If there is less game time, there will be more commercial time. That’s just how things work. Almost every series was 2-0 and the length of many games were below 20 minutes. Compared to the patches in the previous summits, even though there are 2 more teams, the total time of all the games is significantly less than before. To make up for the lost time, more commercials have to be shown.
As for show matches, well the players don’t want to do them. The tag team thing last summit was the stupidest thing ever, when it comes to an all star match, I’m not sure I prefer not doing them. Anyway BTS decided not to do it because the players didn’t want to.
Concerns on Majors:
Well so far I haven’t written anything that could get me in trouble yet, but this wouldn’t be an envy blog if it didn't get more heavy. WOooooooo
Well first off what exactly is a major? Hopefully its something that valve personally runs but assuming that DAC is a major that definitely is not the case. If DAC a tournament that was ran by MarsTV/PerfectWorld is a major then potentially the other 2 Majors are tournaments also run by different organizations.
One organization that instantly pops up would be Nexon. PerfectWorld is the Chinese DotA 2 distributor, and Nexon is the Korean DotA 2 distributor. This means that potentially 2 of the 3 majors are in asia. I wrote this in my previous blog but I’m very worried that these majors would be bias based on the region they are located. For example DAC had 11 asian teams out of 16 teams. I feel like for such a massive event, a “Major,” it should basically be a mini TI, not just money wise but the sacredy of how the event is runned. TI tries its best to invite the best teams in the world, with a little fairness to all the regions. DAC on the other hand is heavily asia favored.
I talked to AUI about this and he thinks that well it's quite possible that these Majors are used to promote DotA 2 in its region. For example if Nexon ran a major it would potentially want more Korean teams in the tournament to promote Korean DotA 2. I feel like a little bias may perhaps be acceptable but it can lead to an extremely flawed system for majors. Placements in majors will most likely determine the likelihood of an invite to the next major and TI. Potentially if we start with DAC after TI, and 11/16 teams are from Asia, then perhaps this will snowball and TI will be filled with asia teams.
Anyway my point is, I really hope the Majors are runned like TI. Honestly DAC was nothing like TI in terms of organization. What made them similar was the hype, the hotels, and the money.
EDIT: I inserted the two follow paragraphs after I finished writing!
The next year will be very interesting because of these majors. I feel like a lot of top teams will focus primarily on the majors while playing only a few other tournaments for “practice.” I believe that how well organizers treat the players will become much more important next DotA year. In previous years as long as a tournament had good prize money, the teams will play it. However, if all the majors are DAC level, most of the money will be in these tournaments, so top teams would play other tournaments just to “practice.” Prize money in these smaller tournaments wouldn't matter as much anymore. Perhaps teams would look at how well these tournaments treat them instead as the primary reason to play.
Another interesting thing that would most likely occur is that a lot of T2 teams will start winning tournaments because T1 teams will no longer participate in as many tournaments. This may potentially mean that not only will T1 teams make more money because of majors, but a lot of T2 teams will make more money and get more exposure, and even T3 teams will be able to win a few Eizo Cups here and there. Potentially the Majors system will help grow DotA 2.
end Edit
Ok so this is all speculation, potentially DAC isn’t even considered a Major. But anyway since I’m concerned I’m going to keep speculating.
Personally I think the likelihood of Valve running 4 tournaments a year to be impossible. Valve is very understaffed when it comes to DotA, it takes all that can they run TI, there’s a low chance they will run 3 other tournaments throughout the year.
Say Nexon/DAC are both majors, who will run the last major? When it comes to hosting huge events in the west, I think of ESL frankfurt. Honestly when it comes to running events, the events in the west are usually superior to the ones ran in asia (except Korea). And honestly, even if the event was destined to be a total disaster players would still play it.
Anyway, I don’t think anyone really knows anything yet, but some people have been speculating that ESL would be the obvious choice for the western major. Personally I am against that idea.
For me ESL is an experienced and big organization that looks fit to run a major; that I don’t deny. But for me it is not my first choice. Perhaps if ESL was given the honor of hosting a major that everything they do will be done better but there’s no way I should look at it that way.
ESL may be experienced but their experience doesn’t seem to offer much. Their growth is very stagnate. The 3 tournaments they have/will hosted for DotA are all 2 day tournaments. All with the same shitty format of bo3 single elimination with even the finals being bo3. Both the previous ESL FrankFurt and ESL NY had major delays because of PC/internet or other issues. It’s not like I expect any PC problems this time around but looking at how they run DotA 2 it may very well not be changed.
For example, when it comes to all JD events (partnered with ESL), HolyMaster (head admin) insists, even though so many players think its stupid, to have random side/pick order. What usually happens in ESL is that for first game FP/SP is randomed. Then G2 it's flipped. G3 there is a coin toss and side/pick can be chosen. It’s not that this is unfair or anything, it’s just a stupid concept. You go into a tournament, you can’t plan out a part of your picks because it's random. Every non JD tournament uses the preferred way of giving one team choice of side/pick then the other team the other based on coin toss but for some reason HolyMaster remains a hipster.
I don’t actually know what it means to be an admin when it comes to HolyMaster. Perhaps it just means using the same rules for every tournament and never adapting (AKA nothing). ESL format is actually the same as fucking Eizo Cup.
Playing qualifiers for this ESL, we had some games where the lobby wouldn’t be hosted till the game was about to start, and it was hard to contact anyone. I actually tweeted because no one responded to my manager after our game against Empire because we wanted to reschedule against NaVi incase of new patch. We got a response after that though xD.
Well I’m sure ESL is working on some things for this ESL Frankfurt I can’t really say too much before I go. Maybe it would change my mind. It’s not like ESL has been a bad event, they have good soundproof headsets, practice computers, and other good things about them. I am not writing this to hate on ESL (though I don’t mind hating on Holymaster), I just don’t believe that should be hosting a major (no idea if it's actually happening though).
Anyway, if anyone from the west should be hosting a major. I truly believe that it should be BTS, I’m honestly not even being bias. BTS don’t have the $$$$ to run an event of that size though, they would have to partner up with someone. Perhaps RedBull/BTS could run an event of insanely good production. I think if RedBull were to run another event, it would be much better than the first one. Their first event was good too.
Ending Thoughts:
I talked about a bunch of different things in this blog, I’m not even sure if they linked well together. Right now before it gets too close to TI I just wanted to share my thoughts before I forget about everything. The next DotA years has so much potential, I hope it won’t be wasted. I would hate it if the majors weren’t anything like TI and I hear excuses like “it was our first major.” I don’t think I’ve ever thought “it was my first TI” when I lost the last one. For me personally, I don’t look too much at the money when it comes to DotA. I know that the only thing that matters is how well I play, and how well I mesh with a team. The money will come without me thinking about it. I know it’s not the same (because of sponsors), but I wish for the organizers of Majors to only think about running the best possible event for everyone, I’m sure the money is sure to follow.
Huh well I got all the way to the Majors part without being annoyed at the organization or formatting. Could still be improved but lo! Eternal Envy takes feedback as well.
On May 21 2015 13:49 eieio wrote: really enjoyed this blog. Maybe it's just that you're blogging about happier things but it seems well structured and makes pretty coherent points
I'd be surprised if Nexon got to run a major, I'd assume that they'll be going to organizations with a history of running large scale Dota events.
I do think that a Redbull/BTS major would be awesome, although I'm sure that'd cause the absurd "BTS MONOPOLY" complaints to get even more unbearable.
Thanks for the blog envy, always nice to read your thoughts ^^
Considering that he wrote it while still in the BTS house maybe he got some feedback on structuring the blog or just general feedback.
I don't think Nexon will put that much effort into hosting a LAN when the game failed to gain traction after many Nexon Leagues. At least korean people will have to wait less since their servers are now accessible for everyone
EE, Felt is a great group, I thank you for showing me them. I'm also glad you really enjoyed TS3 as a player, I hope other tourneys have similar production values in the future
On May 21 2015 13:51 FHDH wrote: Huh well I got all the way to the Majors part without being annoyed at the organization or formatting. Could still be improved but lo! Eternal Envy takes feedback as well.
yeah lol, he either spent a ton of time proofreading(you could tell at the end he hastily tagged on some paragraphs in normal EE stream of consciousness) or just wrote with organization/grammar in mind.
As always, great read and I hope you continue keeping us in the loop EE
On May 21 2015 14:04 Loomies wrote: I don't think Nexon will put that much effort into hosting a LAN when the game failed to gain traction after many Nexon Leagues. At least korean people will have to wait less since their servers are now accessible for everyone
Speaking of Nexon, does anyone know why the Korean Dota scene hasn't had any domestic leagues or tournaments since KDL in November? Have the organizations/Kespa given up on it? I always enjoyed watching the high production value Korean games. I feel like the Korean Dota scene is gonna stagnate like the rest of SEA if Nexon has stopped supporting the competitive teams.
Dota pretty much flopped in Korea. I think they may have an upcoming tournament but its not on the same level as the old NEXON tournaments... it is unfortunate but it would be cool to have them host a major, although I don't believe the Korean scene deserves a major because of how small it is.
On May 21 2015 14:39 Whiplash wrote: Dota pretty much flopped in Korea. I think they may have an upcoming tournament but its not on the same level as the old NEXON tournaments... it is unfortunate but it would be cool to have them host a major, although I don't believe the Korean scene deserves a major because of how small it is.
Unless they cannot get enough live fans for it I think holding SEA in Korea is sensible. They have excellent esports infrastructure and if they don't like seeing their Korean teams getting their faces smashed by Malaysia et al they can step their game up. There's little doubt that even though the ROK Dota2 scene is currently very lackluster, hosting a major there would give it a boost.
If nexon was to host a major i doubt that bts-redbull will host another, since that would leave euro with no major whatsoever, and i think thats highly unlikely.
That being said as a tournament organizer for Europe ESL is the the only one that has the money, manpower and experience to host it. The alternatives organisers would be either Dreamhack (unlikely because during summer DH theres TI and winter DH DAC) or SlavLadder; and after all the complains and the increasingly number of tier 1 teams saying they wouldnt come back to it because of various problems and the lack of experience in hosting large scale events thats unlikely as well.
If nexon doesnt get a major spot and NA gets 2 then probably bts-redbull might get it over MLG.
It makes zero sense to give NA two. NA has TI. Out of four, that is plenty. Europe definitely should have one, China should definitely have one, and then what? Can you justify giving a second to any three of those over the other?
On May 21 2015 14:39 Whiplash wrote: Dota pretty much flopped in Korea. I think they may have an upcoming tournament but its not on the same level as the old NEXON tournaments... it is unfortunate but it would be cool to have them host a major, although I don't believe the Korean scene deserves a major because of how small it is.
Oh snap, Whiplash. My sympathies for what happened to you in Korea, you really got shafted after being the only good English caster.
I would fucking love the Red Bull + BeyondtheSummit teamup major. Thanks for the post, Envy! I think the entire DotA community learns something very important about the pro scene whenever you post. The insight into the conditions and lives of our idols really adds some poignancy to watching pro Doto :D
On May 21 2015 15:04 FHDH wrote: It makes zero sense to give NA two. NA has TI. Out of four, that is plenty. Europe definitely should have one, China should definitely have one, and then what? Can you justify giving a second to any three of those over the other?
Well we could have three "core" majors. TI (US), Europe, China. And then a forth that is rotating through the world. South America, Phillipenes, maybe even Australia, ... would be fun!
On May 21 2015 15:04 FHDH wrote: It makes zero sense to give NA two. NA has TI. Out of four, that is plenty. Europe definitely should have one, China should definitely have one, and then what? Can you justify giving a second to any three of those over the other?
Last I checked Red Bull is a global brand and BTS has casted tourny's in multiple continents. What assumption are you under that if they provided a coordinated effort between the two it can only be held in NA?
Now playing devils advocate on it, considering how fast TI sells out gives little opportunity for people in NA to go. NA may need a separate large tourny to make up for the inaccessibility of TI to NA. Personally I would love one at Staples Center where LoL plays (and being near BTS)
On May 21 2015 15:04 FHDH wrote: It makes zero sense to give NA two. NA has TI. Out of four, that is plenty. Europe definitely should have one, China should definitely have one, and then what? Can you justify giving a second to any three of those over the other?
Well we could have three "core" majors. TI (US), Europe, China. And then a forth that is rotating through the world. South America, Phillipenes, maybe even Australia, ... would be fun!
the fourth region is generally considered to be SEA, I don't know why NA would count as a major region and SEA wouldn't
On May 21 2015 15:04 FHDH wrote: It makes zero sense to give NA two. NA has TI. Out of four, that is plenty. Europe definitely should have one, China should definitely have one, and then what? Can you justify giving a second to any three of those over the other?
Well we could have three "core" majors. TI (US), Europe, China. And then a forth that is rotating through the world. South America, Phillipenes, maybe even Australia, ... would be fun!
Yeah, this I can get behind, although I'm not sure how good it is for promoting the game in regions vs. having one that is steady in a targeted region.
On May 21 2015 15:04 FHDH wrote: It makes zero sense to give NA two. NA has TI. Out of four, that is plenty. Europe definitely should have one, China should definitely have one, and then what? Can you justify giving a second to any three of those over the other?
Last I checked Red Bull is a global brand and BTS has casted tourny's in multiple continents. What assumption are you under that if they provided a coordinated effort between the two it can only be held in NA?
Now playing devils advocate on it, considering how fast TI sells out gives little opportunity for people in NA to go. NA may need a separate large tourny to make up for the inaccessibility of TI to NA. Personally I would love one at Staples Center where LoL plays (and being near BTS)
I was responding to the idea of them doing an NA tournament, nothing more.
I feel like EE nitpicks too much so I just gloss over his petty complaints nowadays. Good to know/cool story bro type blogs because they've been too frequent. But yeah still good to hear the feedback and glad to hear that the past two tournaments were decently organized after the fiascos that were the asian tournaments late 2014 - early 2015
Yeah there's no way Nexon gets a major, there's like 10 dota players in korea and the best "korean" team is a bunch of pinoys lol, the rest of korea play league of legends for some reason. So while they can make bigass events in Korea Nexon shouldn't get it.
I think ESL, PerfectWorld, TI + something. MLG would have to host on twitch for it to be a major their player doesn't get as much exposure. I like the Redbull + summit idea but I think Redbull likes doing their own thing, dreamhack is never good enough + the lan is loud and obnoxious so doubt they will be one, starladders have had too many problems so I actually have no idea who would get the 4th major.
"Also if I hurt your feelings in this blog, I don’t give a fuck." ... I stopped reading there. Sorry, Envy. This kind of attitude is what makes our world so darn stupid. And it sums up your writing pretty well... . =( But ... you don't give a fuck, so why do I bother? Sad.
On May 21 2015 16:58 Gotard wrote: Heh, I guessed correctly that Envy wrote that blog after reading the title
Maybe it's retarded question but why can't you buy your own soundproof headset?
There are competitive advantages to being able to hear. I'm glad he wrote about this part in particular, I was wondering how well those headsets work and I agree, using something like that is WAAAAAAAAAAY better than booths for a live event and I hope it becomes the standard.
On May 21 2015 16:58 Gotard wrote: Heh, I guessed correctly that Envy wrote that blog after reading the title
Maybe it's retarded question but why can't you buy your own soundproof headset?
There are competitive advantages to being able to hear. I'm glad he wrote about this part in particular, I was wondering how well those headsets work and I agree, using something like that is WAAAAAAAAAAY better than booths for a live event and I hope it becomes the standard.
Im guessing at a normal LAN youd still need the booths + headsets. Having no crowd, and everyone listen if you needed to ask them to quiet down helped make this much more efficient in my mind. Not saying it isn't efficient out the gate... but Im pretty sure we discussed plenty of times actual sound proofing(100%) whether by booth or headset is damn near impossible.
Also, Envy making sense = less rage? Makes sense to me too. Good work BTS, and I actually don't believe that any other tournament doesn't try to make these things happen. The biggest difference with BTS, is I'm positive at the gate the ENTIRE tournament staff etc are involved to that extent. This isn't always the case elsewhere, so you end up with people trying to make the best of what they got. Not making excuses here, it's what happens. Post's like this, simply explain how to make that happen, before you even run into human error issues from my point of view. Most of what was discussed as better was addressed in advance. Also, I'm sure too RedBull will step it up, going as far as they did shows they're intentions. When you don't know though, you don't know.
Wow, way better writing than older blogs and way better reasoning as well. I think i can get behind nearly everything envy said this time, just the Holymaster and the 'chairs without armrest' (i prefer my chair without armrest anyway :d) thing seems like nitpicking a bit to much.
On May 21 2015 17:11 DE3me wrote: Wow, way better writing than older blogs and way better reasoning as well. I think i can get behind nearly everything envy said this time, just the Holymaster and the 'chairs without armrest' (i prefer my chair without armrest anyway :d) thing seems like nitpicking a bit to much.
Is it though? This goes with the standardization thing we've been discussing, be it the monitors used at TI compared to other tournaments etc. A lot of players didn't realize how big those TI monitors were until the BTS house this weekend, and some are going to adjust they're home setups for it. I get what you mean, and it comes off always negatively as all bad things have in the past.
But make no mistake, if you take 3 lbs of pressure out of a football, it changes the game, and them guys have to lose cash out of pocket for it. Granted in DotA, these teams are competing for a prize, however losing that prize which you never had to unfair or unusual playing standards is REALLY what makes 90% of the whining and complaining in the first place. Ballgate is serious shit, and as a watcher of SPORTS, this is serious to me until they players are all satisfied(or can come to an agreement, legally, or just professionally with the scene) that we need to replicate the same conditions everytime, as often as possible. BTS might not have had the racer practice chairs, just like the computers, I hope they invest(Or find an investor). I know if I went to lane as a storm spirit, and my tangos cost me 400 gold this one game, rather the 125, Id be calling w33fresh advantages for days... A similar example, is games that usually port between PC and Console. They normally have to make actual gameplay balance adjustments, because the games played differently between a keyboard or controller.
On May 21 2015 16:58 Gotard wrote: Heh, I guessed correctly that Envy wrote that blog after reading the title
Maybe it's retarded question but why can't you buy your own soundproof headset?
There are competitive advantages to being able to hear. I'm glad he wrote about this part in particular, I was wondering how well those headsets work and I agree, using something like that is WAAAAAAAAAAY better than booths for a live event and I hope it becomes the standard.
Im guessing at a normal LAN youd still need the booths + headsets. Having no crowd, and everyone listen if you needed to ask them to quiet down helped make this much more efficient in my mind. Not saying it isn't efficient out the gate... but Im pretty sure we discussed plenty of times actual sound proofing(100%) whether by booth or headset is damn near impossible.
Also, Envy making sense = less rage? Makes sense to me too. Good work BTS, and I actually don't believe that any other tournament doesn't try to make these things happen. The biggest difference with BTS, is I'm positive at the gate the ENTIRE tournament staff etc are involved to that extent. This isn't always the case elsewhere, so you end up with people trying to make the best of what they got. Not making excuses here, it's what happens. Post's like this, simply explain how to make that happen, before you even run into human error issues from my point of view. Most of what was discussed as better was addressed in advance. Also, I'm sure too RedBull will step it up, going as far as they did shows they're intentions. When you don't know though, you don't know.
I think you are confused. I was at the LAN finals. It was VERY FUCKING LOUD. There were no booths at the LAN finals.
On May 21 2015 15:04 FHDH wrote: . Europe definitely should have one, China should definitely have one, and then what? Can you justify giving a second to any three of those over the other?
China has payment issues and NA visa issues , but then again who would be able to host another EU major? Dreamhack has the history money and the csgo majors experience but look at dreamleague, it became more of a training/grow talent thing and starladder doesnt have the professional experience to host something this big.
Theres also the SEA minesky mgl thing that night be able to host something but thats reeeeaaally questionable.
On May 21 2015 17:11 DE3me wrote: Wow, way better writing than older blogs and way better reasoning as well. I think i can get behind nearly everything envy said this time, just the Holymaster and the 'chairs without armrest' (i prefer my chair without armrest anyway :d) thing seems like nitpicking a bit to much.
Is it though? This goes with the standardization thing we've been discussing, be it the monitors used at TI compared to other tournaments etc. A lot of players didn't realize how big those TI monitors were until the BTS house this weekend, and some are going to adjust they're home setups for it. I get what you mean, and it comes off always negatively as all bad things have in the past.
But make no mistake, if you take 3 lbs of pressure out of a football, it changes the game, and them guys have to lose cash out of pocket for it. Granted in DotA, these teams are competing for a prize, however losing that prize which you never had to unfair or unusual playing standards is REALLY what makes 90% of the whining and complaining in the first place. Ballgate is serious shit, and as a watcher of SPORTS, this is serious to me until they players are all satisfied(or can come to an agreement, legally, or just professionally with the scene) that we need to replicate the same conditions everytime, as often as possible. BTS might not have had the racer practice chairs, just like the computers, I hope they invest(Or find an investor). I know if I went to lane as a storm spirit, and my tangos cost me 400 gold this one game, rather the 125, Id be calling w33fresh advantages for days... A similar example, is games that usually port between PC and Console. They normally have to make actual gameplay balance adjustments, because the games played differently between a keyboard or controller.
I think your example sucks, because it is more like the football players having a slightly bigger or larger warm up area instead of changing the ball and you can ask any traditional sports guys, they won't care. In general in traditional sports there are organizations that watch over any regulations and they are way more picky about it than the players (i speak from experience here).
I think one mistake EE makes here is the assumption of what a major would look like vs what Frankfurt looks like. The reason BTS can be a 4-5 day even is because venue over head is 1/4 of monthly rent. I've had the discussion a few times about what would be "best"...playing an event for 4 days from a small location with deep brackets double elim etc or single elim in huge venues.
We've made a decision to do it this way so far specifically because every other event outside of DAC/TI is small in scale with a double elim bracket. If we did a major, i imagine Valve would have some requirements on scale and how to run it, but its relevance in context of every other tournament in the scene then suddenly begins to justify huge extra costs.
Its really hard to tell what that will look like when Valve hasn't decided yet either how majors will work.
thanks for singling me out four times, I feel very honored.
I understand that you would prefer to have the same rules in all tournaments. Maybe I was too used to other tournaments always copying mine, that I overslept the development of this highly significant area.
But there actually is a reason for this. It's bringing a bit more variety into it. I still remember TI3 finals when Na'Vi and Alliance had the same sides and the same draft order for all five games of the grand final, This resulted in very minimal differences in the picks. So I prefer to force the change between game 1 and 2 to mix things up.
I don't have super strong feelings about this, but we always felt that it's slightly more enjoyable to watch, while still - as you say - keeping the match fair. Please keep in mind, that eSports is not only about players, but also about the people watching it (related to this: ESL being called out for being the only major organizer with the balls to do single elimination). But maybe you're just too used to many others instantly catering to only the player's needs.
Well, from our end it's not a huge deal. We're still talking about side & draft order here and not about playing all random. So if tiny factors like this are so in focus by now, it means that the major ones are fine. So I'm not too worried.
What I found most interesting is that you called me the "least retarded" of all admins in person at TI4, maybe the biggest praise I have received until now, Only to call me out less than a year later for apparently being the most retarded one after nothing has changed.
Of course we will consider to change the rules to the new standard. My feelings about it are not that strong. Maybe I'll climb up the retard ladder a bit again.
On May 21 2015 13:23 EternaLEnVy wrote: Everytime I write one of these blogs I always ask myself if it’s a good idea. Too much praise and flames and it gets me thinking sometimes. Ya it probably isn’t good for me but LMFAO wHo cAREAS HAHA Xd.
As always I apologize for my shit writing.
Also if I hurt your feelings in this blog, I don’t give a fuck. Thanks to those who properly read this blog, and to those that discuss about the points in it. To those who would use this blog as simply an excuse to attack me directly, go fuck yourselves.
Lol. Hardboys.
Seriously why do we have another of these every month or so? I felt like this is the same blog as always. New specifics, but same old same old.
On May 21 2015 18:18 HolyMaster wrote: Dear Jacky,
thanks for singling me out four times, I feel very honored.
I understand that you would prefer to have the same rules in all tournaments. Maybe I was too used to other tournaments always copying mine, that I overslept the development of this highly significant area.
But there actually is a reason for this. It's bringing a bit more variety into it. I still remember TI3 finals when Na'Vi and Alliance had the same sides and the same draft order for all five games of the grand final, This resulted in very minimal differences in the picks. So I prefer to force the change between game 1 and 2 to mix things up.
I don't have super strong feelings about this, but we always felt that it's slightly more enjoyable to watch, while still - as you say - keeping the match fair. Please keep in mind, that eSports is not only about players, but also about the people watching it (related to this: ESL being called out for being the only major organizer with the balls to do single elimination). But maybe you're just too used to many others instantly catering to only the player's needs.
Well, from our end it's not a huge deal. We're still talking about side & draft order here and not about playing all random. So if tiny factors like this are so in focus by now, it means that the major ones are fine. So I'm not too worried.
What I found most interesting is that you called me the "least retarded" of all admins in person at TI4, maybe the biggest praise I have received until now, Only to call me out less than a year later for apparently being the most retarded one after nothing has changed.
Of course we will consider to change the rules to the new standard. My feelings about it are not that strong. Maybe I'll climb up the retard ladder a bit again.
Best regards, DHMS
Are you saying Redbull finals having Secret on Radiant every single game and consequently the same 3-4 first bans in almost every game was a bad thing somehow? Are you saying that was the MOST boring part of an otherwise fun finals at Redbull? Are you saying that something should be done from an admin standpoint to make sure this doesn't happen?
I actually didn't read the supplement to Jacky's post and wow. This is the reason I tend to hate these posts. This kind of whine right here. "How can I plan when I don't know what side I'm going to be on?"
Of course single elim is understandable for ESL given the time constraints, but it's also clear why players may not like the format. You travel somewhere to play for 1-2 days and your final placing may be very much determined by bracket draw. Not sure whether players prefer a huge crowd or a smaller venue but a tournament structure that is better for figuring out the correct order for teams. Also I'm not sure about how different models do financially. For example ESL Frankfurt last year was 2 days at a very large venue but they had a lot of people attending, buying tickets and whatever drinks and food, and Summit 3 for example had no live spectators so they have to cover their costs with other sources of income. Naturally tournaments should also try to do what makes sense for them financially, and sometimes this may include choosing a tournament format that fits with the venue and schedule they want.
As a spectator (watching from home) I don't really mind single elim in general, but the event just feels very short when there are only 7 series played and suddenly it is over. 4 teams play only once in the entire tournament, 2 teams play twice and 2 teams play 3 times. As a format I don't think single elim is out of the question even for a major, but I feel then there should be a group stage before it to determine the seeding. Firstly it sets the context for the playoffs when viewers see the teams face each other in the group stage, and it removes issues with how to seed teams from different continents into the bracket.
Though I'm not sure what using single elim has to do with "having balls". A simple single elim bracket without proper seeding is simply a bad format in terms of being fair. I'm not talking specifically about ESL as I'm not sure how the brackets have been drawn in Frankfurt and NY, but for example there have been some Chinese tournaments using a single elim bracket where close to all the best teams were on the same side. Not only can it be bad for teams, but at that point it also takes away from viewer hype in terms of good matchups for the final rounds of the tournament. Imo its main advantage is simply that it takes less time to run. From a hype perspective I don't think double elim is any worse, but obviously people have different opinions on this.
Single elimination IS a bad format. It's bad for competitors and it's bad for spectators. There are advantages - it's compact; there is a lot of drama immediately - but it's not good competitively and you kill good storylines with it. I will never understand fans who don't like double elim.
On May 21 2015 19:28 FHDH wrote: Single elimination IS a bad format. It's bad for competitors and it's bad for spectators. There are advantages - it's compact; there is a lot of drama immediately - but it's not good competitively and you kill good storylines with it. I will never understand fans who don't like double elim.
It's good competitively - every team try as hard as they can every match otherwise they're out. I think having bigger series can compensate for small amount of matches. Overall, I think both single and double elimination has its advantages and I see no reason to hate one format or another.
On May 21 2015 19:28 FHDH wrote: Single elimination IS a bad format. It's bad for competitors and it's bad for spectators. There are advantages - it's compact; there is a lot of drama immediately - but it's not good competitively and you kill good storylines with it. I will never understand fans who don't like double elim.
It's good competitively - every team try as hard as they can every match otherwise they're out.
This is very idealized. I've been an NFL fan for decades and they have single-elimination playoffs and the drama is huge but the downsides are very real. Seeding is terribly uneven. Little bits of luck can end your season - or send you further than you should have gone.
Yeah, everybody "tries their hardest" but it still delivers bogus results on a regular basis.
Places I'd like to see it held (according to preference)
1. South Korea - great infrastructure for eSports 2. Singapore - good infrastructure and is more accessible to the general SEA audience 3. Malaysia - sizable Dota crowd and okay infrastructure 4. Philippines - huge Dota crowd but questionable infrastructure
On May 21 2015 13:35 Bryce241 wrote: not a lot of drama here except for the HolyMaster part. move along people, nothing to see here.
I'd rather not. There are certain things worth hashing out.
I see it as impossible for both majors to be in East asia. The 3 majors have to qualify people for TI so it has to be one in that region, one in CIS/EU and one in the Americas.
THe problem though is where should it be hosted? Generally I think the only great places to host it in East Asia are Hong Kong, Korea and Macau.
Hong Kong is a more prestigious city and gives the least amount of problems for the Chinese teams. Drawback is that Hong Kong is extremely expensive place to host a tournament. Korea has Nexon and they know how to host tournaments. Getting proper visas though is hard. Macau has the most lax visa requirements even though it is officially part of China so it makes it a great converging point for any country. OTOH their infrastructure might be lacking.
EU/CIS is equally hard to place. So many teams are from CIS alone so Poland might be the most sensible location but their visa requirements are fairly strict. Serbia has some of the most lax requirements but that countries infrastructure is pretty bad. Ireland is reasonable when it comes to visa requirements and their infrastructure is great but the cost for CIS teams is much higher than a major hosted in a mainland EU/Asia country.
Americas is a more binary issue. Host it mainland North America and make it hard for people to travel or host it in South America and have us northerners spend money along with anyone else in the Eastern Hemisphere.
I hope Valve is putting a lot of though on how these majors can be structured as open events instead of only looking at traditional event organizers.
------------------------------
I didn't have any complaints about the ads for the Summit other than that Power Rangers ad. After the 3rd time I began muting the stream every time it came on. Most people were complaining because they're used to adblocking everything but they can't adblock the stream
There was a legit complaint that there was less interaction with the players and I was hoping for some Twitch Chat interaction with one of the translators to help but other than that EE succinctly points out why there wasn't as much content. Player's weren't eliminated as quickly so they wanted to focus more on practicing.
Assuming the majors are the same way as they are in CS:GO, it will be a standarized format accross all 4 majors. So ESL has to go with the format Valve choses if they want the support from Valve to be a Major.
On May 21 2015 13:35 Bryce241 wrote: not a lot of drama here except for the HolyMaster part. move along people, nothing to see here.
I'd rather not. There are certain things worth hashing out.
I see it as impossible for both majors to be in East asia. The 3 majors have to qualify people for TI so it has to be one in that region, one in CIS/EU and one in the Americas.
THe problem though is where should it be hosted? Generally I think the only great places to host it in East Asia are Hong Kong, Korea and Macau.
Hong Kong is a more prestigious city and gives the least amount of problems for the Chinese teams. Drawback is that Hong Kong is extremely expensive place to host a tournament. Korea has Nexon and they know how to host tournaments. Getting proper visas though is hard. Macau has the most lax visa requirements even though it is officially part of China so it makes it a great converging point for any country. OTOH their infrastructure might be lacking.
EU/CIS is equally hard to place. So many teams are from CIS alone so Poland might be the most sensible location but their visa requirements are fairly strict. Serbia has some of the most lax requirements but that countries infrastructure is pretty bad. Ireland is reasonable when it comes to visa requirements and their infrastructure is great but the cost for CIS teams is much higher than a major hosted in a mainland EU/Asia country.
Americas is a more binary issue. Host it mainland North America and make it hard for people to travel or host it in South America and have us northerners spend money along with anyone else in the Eastern Hemisphere.
I hope Valve is putting a lot of though on how these majors can be structured as open events instead of only looking at traditional event organizers.
------------------------------
I didn't have any complaints about the ads for the Summit other than that Power Rangers ad. After the 3rd time I began muting the stream every time it came on. Most people were complaining because they're used to adblocking everything but they can't adblock the stream
There was a legit complaint that there was less interaction with the players and I was hoping for some Twitch Chat interaction with one of the translators to help but other than that EE succinctly points out why there wasn't as much content. Player's weren't eliminated as quickly so they wanted to focus more on practicing.
you are randomly picking country names you like and think majors should be hosted there because of what exactly?
Generally I think the only great places to host it in East Asia are Hong Kong, Korea and Macau.
uhmm, what about the biggest dota country, you know, CHINA. or other places that come to mind regarding dota like singapur or malaysia?
EU/CIS is equally hard to place. So many teams are from CIS alone so Poland might be the most sensible location but their visa requirements are fairly strict. Serbia has some of the most lax requirements but that countries infrastructure is pretty bad. Ireland is reasonable when it comes to visa requirements and their infrastructure is great but the cost for CIS teams is much higher than a major hosted in a mainland EU/Asia country.
POLAND and CIS don't fit. rofl. serbia i don't even know how you chose the country. why not croatia? romania? bulgaria? irleand has no esports scene or maybe it's just not visible for non-irelanders. there are no tournaments is all you need to know about ireland. what about the obvious contenders? SWEDEN? GERMANY?
so while you say you want to discuss, why don't you put any thought into the countries you choose first?
On May 21 2015 13:35 Bryce241 wrote: not a lot of drama here except for the HolyMaster part. move along people, nothing to see here.
I'd rather not. There are certain things worth hashing out.
I see it as impossible for both majors to be in East asia. The 3 majors have to qualify people for TI so it has to be one in that region, one in CIS/EU and one in the Americas.
THe problem though is where should it be hosted? Generally I think the only great places to host it in East Asia are Hong Kong, Korea and Macau.
Hong Kong is a more prestigious city and gives the least amount of problems for the Chinese teams. Drawback is that Hong Kong is extremely expensive place to host a tournament. Korea has Nexon and they know how to host tournaments. Getting proper visas though is hard. Macau has the most lax visa requirements even though it is officially part of China so it makes it a great converging point for any country. OTOH their infrastructure might be lacking.
EU/CIS is equally hard to place. So many teams are from CIS alone so Poland might be the most sensible location but their visa requirements are fairly strict. Serbia has some of the most lax requirements but that countries infrastructure is pretty bad. Ireland is reasonable when it comes to visa requirements and their infrastructure is great but the cost for CIS teams is much higher than a major hosted in a mainland EU/Asia country.
Americas is a more binary issue. Host it mainland North America and make it hard for people to travel or host it in South America and have us northerners spend money along with anyone else in the Eastern Hemisphere.
I hope Valve is putting a lot of though on how these majors can be structured as open events instead of only looking at traditional event organizers.
------------------------------
I didn't have any complaints about the ads for the Summit other than that Power Rangers ad. After the 3rd time I began muting the stream every time it came on. Most people were complaining because they're used to adblocking everything but they can't adblock the stream
There was a legit complaint that there was less interaction with the players and I was hoping for some Twitch Chat interaction with one of the translators to help but other than that EE succinctly points out why there wasn't as much content. Player's weren't eliminated as quickly so they wanted to focus more on practicing.
you are randomly picking country names you like and think majors should be hosted there because of what exactly?
EU/CIS is equally hard to place. So many teams are from CIS alone so Poland might be the most sensible location but their visa requirements are fairly strict. Serbia has some of the most lax requirements but that countries infrastructure is pretty bad. Ireland is reasonable when it comes to visa requirements and their infrastructure is great but the cost for CIS teams is much higher than a major hosted in a mainland EU/Asia country.
POLAND and CIS don't fit. rofl. serbia i don't even know how you chose the country. why not croatia? romania? bulgaria? irleand has no esports scene or maybe it's just not visible for non-irelanders. there are no tournaments is all you need to know about ireland. what about the obvious contenders? SWEDEN? GERMANY?
so while you say you want to discuss, why don't you put any thought into the countries you choose first?
You ask why but immediately assume I'm wrong.
In the past I used to be annoyed about how many tournaments were invitationals. So I wondered what would it take to create an open format. When I got around to determining locations most of areas I selected are based on VISA requirements. You can't have an open tournament and pay for travel expenses but have some teams disqualified because the country they need to travel to has strict border rules. I also chose countries based on relative safety in relation to those lower travel restrictions.
Personally I would love to see a BTS/RedBull Major, because from your description it seems as if all of the players will be very relaxed and we may get better gameplay than an International due to less stress.
On the topic of Majors; I think it's a great idea to make larger LANs, and if there are good majors, it will make TI6 more than likely the most competitive and most fun TI because more teams will be prepared for a large scale LAN.
On May 21 2015 13:35 Bryce241 wrote: not a lot of drama here except for the HolyMaster part. move along people, nothing to see here.
I'd rather not. There are certain things worth hashing out.
I see it as impossible for both majors to be in East asia. The 3 majors have to qualify people for TI so it has to be one in that region, one in CIS/EU and one in the Americas.
THe problem though is where should it be hosted? Generally I think the only great places to host it in East Asia are Hong Kong, Korea and Macau.
Hong Kong is a more prestigious city and gives the least amount of problems for the Chinese teams. Drawback is that Hong Kong is extremely expensive place to host a tournament. Korea has Nexon and they know how to host tournaments. Getting proper visas though is hard. Macau has the most lax visa requirements even though it is officially part of China so it makes it a great converging point for any country. OTOH their infrastructure might be lacking.
EU/CIS is equally hard to place. So many teams are from CIS alone so Poland might be the most sensible location but their visa requirements are fairly strict. Serbia has some of the most lax requirements but that countries infrastructure is pretty bad. Ireland is reasonable when it comes to visa requirements and their infrastructure is great but the cost for CIS teams is much higher than a major hosted in a mainland EU/Asia country.
Americas is a more binary issue. Host it mainland North America and make it hard for people to travel or host it in South America and have us northerners spend money along with anyone else in the Eastern Hemisphere.
I hope Valve is putting a lot of though on how these majors can be structured as open events instead of only looking at traditional event organizers.
------------------------------
I didn't have any complaints about the ads for the Summit other than that Power Rangers ad. After the 3rd time I began muting the stream every time it came on. Most people were complaining because they're used to adblocking everything but they can't adblock the stream
There was a legit complaint that there was less interaction with the players and I was hoping for some Twitch Chat interaction with one of the translators to help but other than that EE succinctly points out why there wasn't as much content. Player's weren't eliminated as quickly so they wanted to focus more on practicing.
you are randomly picking country names you like and think majors should be hosted there because of what exactly?
Generally I think the only great places to host it in East Asia are Hong Kong, Korea and Macau.
uhmm, what about the biggest dota country, you know, CHINA. or other places that come to mind regarding dota like singapur or malaysia?
EU/CIS is equally hard to place. So many teams are from CIS alone so Poland might be the most sensible location but their visa requirements are fairly strict. Serbia has some of the most lax requirements but that countries infrastructure is pretty bad. Ireland is reasonable when it comes to visa requirements and their infrastructure is great but the cost for CIS teams is much higher than a major hosted in a mainland EU/Asia country.
POLAND and CIS don't fit. rofl. serbia i don't even know how you chose the country. why not croatia? romania? bulgaria? irleand has no esports scene or maybe it's just not visible for non-irelanders. there are no tournaments is all you need to know about ireland. what about the obvious contenders? SWEDEN? GERMANY?
so while you say you want to discuss, why don't you put any thought into the countries you choose first?
You ask why but immediately assume I'm wrong.
In the past I used to be annoyed about how many tournaments were invitationals. So I wondered what would it take to create an open format. When I got around to determining locations most of areas I selected are based on VISA requirements. You can't have an open tournament and pay for travel expenses but have some teams disqualified because the country they need to travel to has strict border rules. I also chose countries based on relative safety in relation to those lower travel restrictions.
I did my research.
it's because you are wrong and it's obvious by just listing the countries you propose. maybe you did some research on locations. but your conclussions still make 0 sense because you chose to ignore the dota (and esport) aspect and you just cherry pick countries you like while ignoring others. there is a reason Dreamhacks or ESLs are hosted in places Valencia, Stockholm or Bucharest and not in Ireland or Serbia or anywhere else you proposed with the exception of Poland (great ESLs) and Korea (obviously.. but IMHO unfitting for Dota). ignoring the player base is for sure not the best way to find a perfect tournament location.
I'd love to see BTS host a Majors. I think its a natural evolution of their studio. From being just a couple of casters, casting in their bedroom, to a group of people in a studio that cast games, to hosting a Lan tournament and then to finally hosting a Major. The BTS crew can ask Valve for help, maybe ask them for tips, have them be given the do's and don'ts, have them give them a crash course in organizing a major tournament. The good thing about BTS is they seem to be on the ball, that they learn from their mistakes, that they are willing to accept negative feedback and change for the better. And that they love the game and are passionate about it. They are invested in the continued success of Dota. You can trust them to do their best. They deserve a chance to be given such a great opportunity by Valve. To Envy, I'm glad that you've kept blogging inspite of all the insult thrown your way. I think and feel that you're the only one (maybe Aui too), from the players point of view, who has the guts to air all the grievance the professional scenes has, out in the open. You seems to really want the scene to improve, and as an avid fan of professional dota, I apprecciate it very much. You seem to have employed a beta reader, as this blog was very easy to read. P.S. Please remove the slurs and swearing. You can do better. :D
Actually The Summit 3 was the only DotaTV ticket I bought this year, simply because their (BTS) production quality, casting, and dedication to make the scene better are all great. That being said thanks to 6.84 and the resulting stomps/short matches the game quality and thus viewer experience wasn't that great. Nevertheless they did their best and the patch isn't their fault.
Only negative I have is actually related to C9, I was watching with a friend and notail, bone7 and fata were all commentating over each other, making it difficult for him to make out anything at times. I personally liked their disagreements as it gives more opinions and potential ways to look at situations, but them talking/shouting over each other really wasn't helpful. They really needed like one commentator at all times to help give the cast a better structure and organize it.
I agree RedBull format was bad. Otherwise viewer experience was good.
Majors are all speculation. Honestly I don't think Dota2 can ever compete with LoL in Korea so having an American, European and Chinese major respectively makes the most sense to me, as those are the 3 biggest scenes. Then again, TI is already held in America so....
Thanks for the post. I think that no matter what you're saying, you're right, because you are the Dota player. The tournaments should match your needs, as well as the fans. You have a lot of experience with the way tournaments are run and you know the math behind the formats.
Really I think the biggest point here is that they need to communicate and get opinions from players and needs from teams much more often and much earlier than the date of the event.
On May 21 2015 23:17 Denia1 wrote: Majors are all speculation. Honestly I don't think Dota2 can ever compete with LoL in Korea so having an American, European and Chinese major respectively makes the most sense to me, as those are the 3 biggest scenes. Then again, TI is already held in America so....
I don't consider TI being held in America, more like held in Seattle, because that's where Valve is located. Not having a major in America would do two great American esports organizations a disservice(RedBull and MLG). In my opinion, it's less about where the majors are and more about what organization would do the best job holding one.
On May 21 2015 23:17 Denia1 wrote: Majors are all speculation. Honestly I don't think Dota2 can ever compete with LoL in Korea so having an American, European and Chinese major respectively makes the most sense to me, as those are the 3 biggest scenes. Then again, TI is already held in America so....
I don't consider TI being held in America, more like held in Seattle, because that's where Valve is located. Not having a major in America would do two great American esports organizations a disservice(RedBull and MLG). In my opinion, it's less about where the majors are and more about what organization would do the best job holding one.
? I bet by ur logic DAC isn't held in china it's held in Shanghai and as such (insert chinese city here) totally deserves another major blah blah blah
keep in mind china is the same size as the US land-wise and has around 4x the population
Also keep in mind MLG has a miniscule dota pedigree at best and Redbull has done like 2 very small scale dota tournaments ever.
On May 21 2015 23:17 Denia1 wrote: Majors are all speculation. Honestly I don't think Dota2 can ever compete with LoL in Korea so having an American, European and Chinese major respectively makes the most sense to me, as those are the 3 biggest scenes. Then again, TI is already held in America so....
I don't consider TI being held in America, more like held in Seattle, because that's where Valve is located. Not having a major in America would do two great American esports organizations a disservice(RedBull and MLG). In my opinion, it's less about where the majors are and more about what organization would do the best job holding one.
As always, I'm quite amused by EE's post. And even more amused by the responses.
As to majors:
I'd guess that BTS would not even want to host a Major. Maybe I'm wrong but to my knowledge nobody in their organisation has any record/experience on running large scale (large audience) live events whatsoever? Not meant as an offense. I LOVE the Summit events. But it's like saying: "Hey Take, how about you run the european finals of sc2?" - maybe at some point BTS could grow into an orgnanisation that could handle something like that, but I'm not sure if they should even go into that direction. They have a very clear value proposition when being booked to cover an event, and run a nice small a-typical LAN once a year. Great.
So in North America that leaves us with 2 suggestions: RB and MLG: RB, is doing these events as a MARKETING STUNT - hell yes they do a good job, but it's still brand marketing, and I could never imagine Valve giving another completely unrelated comporation the rights to use a major for the sole purpose of promoting a soft drink. MLG, let's be honest, are well past their prime. They had some nice SC2 / Halo events, but have been struggling extremely from a business perspective. Maybe thay could get back on their feet with some valve money. But as people have rightly pointed out: they don't really have a dota2 record.
Which brings us to ESL. I think they are the obvious choice for EU, with starladder or dreamhack being close contenders. But what's more, they are also the obvious choice for NA. If EE checked the organisation out a bit, rather than arguing whether or not some rule is a bit better than another... ESL (or the company behind it) is the largest esports event operator in the western hemisphere - by far. They run the big events for Blizzard around the globe. Same for Riot. Same for Wargaming. They are more than qualified to carry out a number of Majors on differnt continents throughout the year. And will probably be doing exactly that - UNLESS, and that's a big unless, Valve for some reason does not want to work with the biggest player - which would be very Valve... so let's see.
On May 21 2015 23:17 Denia1 wrote: Majors are all speculation. Honestly I don't think Dota2 can ever compete with LoL in Korea so having an American, European and Chinese major respectively makes the most sense to me, as those are the 3 biggest scenes. Then again, TI is already held in America so....
I don't consider TI being held in America, more like held in Seattle, because that's where Valve is located. Not having a major in America would do two great American esports organizations a disservice(RedBull and MLG). In my opinion, it's less about where the majors are and more about what organization would do the best job holding one.
? I bet by ur logic DAC isn't held in china it's held in Shanghai and as such (insert chinese city here) totally deserves another major blah blah blah
keep in mind china is the same size as the US land-wise and has around 4x the population
Also keep in mind MLG has a miniscule dota pedigree at best and Redbull has done like 2 very small scale dota tournaments ever.
You don't get my point. My point is it's not just a tournament, it's a tournament hosted by Valve, which is completely different, even for the upcoming majors. Valve doesn't host the event in Seattle because it's in America or because it's an American tourney, they host it because it's close to where their company is located.
On May 21 2015 23:17 Denia1 wrote: Majors are all speculation. Honestly I don't think Dota2 can ever compete with LoL in Korea so having an American, European and Chinese major respectively makes the most sense to me, as those are the 3 biggest scenes. Then again, TI is already held in America so....
I don't consider TI being held in America, more like held in Seattle, because that's where Valve is located. Not having a major in America would do two great American esports organizations a disservice(RedBull and MLG). In my opinion, it's less about where the majors are and more about what organization would do the best job holding one.
Red Bull isn't American though.
No, but every event they have hosted for dota has been located in America.
Which doesn't somehow make it not an american major unless seattle has seceded from the USA recently. For all u know dac was in shanghai cuz thats where perfect world is headquartered. That doesn't make it not a chinese tournament.
On May 22 2015 01:15 Sn0_Man wrote: Which doesn't somehow make it not an american major unless seattle has seceded from the USA recently. For all u know dac was in shanghai cuz thats where perfect world is headquartered. That doesn't make it not a chinese tournament.
The International is it's own entity, always has been. A place for the best regardless of region, to play. It just happens to be held in the US because of Valve's location and they want it close. If you think DAC was the same as TI, we have bigger issues. You can say from a spectator perspective it's a US tourney based solely on location, but I already stated I don't think majors should be chosen based solely on location.
On May 22 2015 01:28 Kipsate wrote: SEA could use a Major as that is a region that is large in potential but lacks infrastructure.
the problem is who the fuck is going to organise it, most likely Mineski or something? The last SEA event was a bloody disaster until Mineski stepped.
There's always that Nexon rumour but they seem really really inactive these days for a scene that might be hosting a major any time soon. I agree that with 4 qualifier areas I don't see why there wouldn't be one major per area.
On May 21 2015 23:17 Denia1 wrote: Majors are all speculation. Honestly I don't think Dota2 can ever compete with LoL in Korea so having an American, European and Chinese major respectively makes the most sense to me, as those are the 3 biggest scenes. Then again, TI is already held in America so....
I don't consider TI being held in America, more like held in Seattle, because that's where Valve is located. Not having a major in America would do two great American esports organizations a disservice(RedBull and MLG). In my opinion, it's less about where the majors are and more about what organization would do the best job holding one.
? I bet by ur logic DAC isn't held in china it's held in Shanghai and as such (insert chinese city here) totally deserves another major blah blah blah
keep in mind china is the same size as the US land-wise and has around 4x the population
Also keep in mind MLG has a miniscule dota pedigree at best and Redbull has done like 2 very small scale dota tournaments ever.
You don't get my point. My point is it's not just a tournament, it's a tournament hosted by Valve, which is completely different, even for the upcoming majors. Valve doesn't host the event in Seattle because it's in America or because it's an American tourney, they host it because it's close to where their company is located.
On May 21 2015 23:17 Denia1 wrote: Majors are all speculation. Honestly I don't think Dota2 can ever compete with LoL in Korea so having an American, European and Chinese major respectively makes the most sense to me, as those are the 3 biggest scenes. Then again, TI is already held in America so....
I don't consider TI being held in America, more like held in Seattle, because that's where Valve is located. Not having a major in America would do two great American esports organizations a disservice(RedBull and MLG). In my opinion, it's less about where the majors are and more about what organization would do the best job holding one.
Red Bull isn't American though.
No, but every event they have hosted for dota has been located in America.
Well ECL was in China though they were probably mostly a sponsor for that event.
I'd say it makes far more sense for MLG to organize an NA major but I really doubt there would even be another one in NA seeing as we have TI. I'd imagine 1 China and 2 EU.
On May 22 2015 01:15 Sn0_Man wrote: Which doesn't somehow make it not an american major unless seattle has seceded from the USA recently. For all u know dac was in shanghai cuz thats where perfect world is headquartered. That doesn't make it not a chinese tournament.
The International is it's own entity, always has been. A place for the best regardless of region, to play. It just happens to be held in the US because of Valve's location and they want it close. If you think DAC was the same as TI, we have bigger issues. You can say from a spectator perspective it's a US tourney based solely on location, but I already stated I don't think majors should be chosen based solely on location.
I had the same impression as you that the Majors would be used as a means of determining who will take part in The International but I double checked Valve's blog and that's not the case.
The Dota Major Championships, starting this Fall, will be an annual series of four marquee tournaments, one being The International. The three additional tournaments will be Valve-sponsored events hosted by third-party organizers at different locations around the world.
In light of this I strongly believe one major is exclusive to Europe and one to CIS. The reason this will happen is due to time zones and the variety of teams is larger. ALso Valve should expect a larger Dota scene to grow in the areas we count as West Asia such as India and United Arab Emirates being lumped into CIS while South Africa can be lumped with EU.
On May 22 2015 02:07 nimdil wrote: Why players don't want to play showmatches? IT's not like they have to try 100% and they play matches in the downtime anyway.
For the same reason I don't like watching them.
They aren't games of skill like the East vs West Conferences for Basketball or football.
On May 22 2015 02:07 nimdil wrote: Why players don't want to play showmatches? IT's not like they have to try 100% and they play matches in the downtime anyway.
For the same reason I don't like watching them.
They aren't games of skill like the East vs West Conferences for Basketball or football.
Instead it's a joke match.
I wish they stopped making jokes of them. It should be a fun game, not spawning fountains in the middle of the map to make it end fast. Not sure how they should make the players and organisers feel it is an important game compared to a pub where they do try hard most of the time. It isn't like they have thousands of spectators that they just mess with...
On May 22 2015 02:07 nimdil wrote: Why players don't want to play showmatches? IT's not like they have to try 100% and they play matches in the downtime anyway.
For the same reason I don't like watching them.
They aren't games of skill like the East vs West Conferences for Basketball or football.
Instead it's a joke match.
I wish they stopped making jokes of them. It should be a fun game, not spawning fountains in the middle of the map to make it end fast. Not sure how they should make the players and organisers feel it is an important game compared to a pub where they do try hard most of the time. It isn't like they have thousands of spectators that they just mess with...
Well the other all star games actually pay very well. If there was a prize winnings in Dota all stars they would be more serious as well.
On May 22 2015 02:07 nimdil wrote: Why players don't want to play showmatches? IT's not like they have to try 100% and they play matches in the downtime anyway.
For the same reason I don't like watching them.
They aren't games of skill like the East vs West Conferences for Basketball or football.
Instead it's a joke match.
I wish they stopped making jokes of them. It should be a fun game, not spawning fountains in the middle of the map to make it end fast. Not sure how they should make the players and organisers feel it is an important game compared to a pub where they do try hard most of the time. It isn't like they have thousands of spectators that they just mess with...
Well the other all star games actually pay very well. If there was a prize winnings in Dota all stars they would be more serious as well.
So dota 2 players can't care about a game to a degree they care about training match of its called show match and is not loaded with cash? If that's the case I wonder if "thanks for cheering for me" is sincere because show matches are for fans and if you don't give a shit about them...
What exactly was the complaint about TS2 all-star match? There was money. Are you saying skill wasn't involved because it was ARDM? Or just it wasn't vanilla dota so it doesn't count? Don't tell me the players didn't try.
And yeah, sometimes as a professional whose entire fucking career requires fans you DO STUFF FOR THE FANS.
I understand EE not liking ARDM. But I don't care.
On May 22 2015 05:38 FHDH wrote: What exactly was the complaint about TS2 all-star match? There was money. Are you saying skill wasn't involved because it was ARDM? Or just it wasn't vanilla dota so it doesn't count? Don't tell me the players didn't try.
And yeah, sometimes as a professional whose entire fucking career requires fans you DO STUFF FOR THE FANS.
I understand EE not liking ARDM. But I don't care.
words of wisdom.
I think ARDM was an excellent choice for such a thing.
On May 22 2015 05:38 FHDH wrote: What exactly was the complaint about TS2 all-star match? There was money. Are you saying skill wasn't involved because it was ARDM? Or just it wasn't vanilla dota so it doesn't count? Don't tell me the players didn't try.
And yeah, sometimes as a professional whose entire fucking career requires fans you DO STUFF FOR THE FANS.
I understand EE not liking ARDM. But I don't care.
TS2 ARDM was the only all start game I look back at fondly. The game was enjoyable in many ways even if the quality was mediocre.
But every other all star game whether it was TI, Starladder etc sucked. I personally tune out after the first 8 minutes if I don't like the vibe of the game.
On May 22 2015 02:07 nimdil wrote: Why players don't want to play showmatches? IT's not like they have to try 100% and they play matches in the downtime anyway.
For the same reason I don't like watching them.
They aren't games of skill like the East vs West Conferences for Basketball or football.
Instead it's a joke match.
I wish they stopped making jokes of them. It should be a fun game, not spawning fountains in the middle of the map to make it end fast. Not sure how they should make the players and organisers feel it is an important game compared to a pub where they do try hard most of the time. It isn't like they have thousands of spectators that they just mess with...
Well the other all star games actually pay very well. If there was a prize winnings in Dota all stars they would be more serious as well.
So dota 2 players can't care about a game to a degree they care about training match of its called show match and is not loaded with cash? If that's the case I wonder if "thanks for cheering for me" is sincere because show matches are for fans and if you don't give a shit about them...
Keep in mind I'm biased against these types of show matches. If I watched an all star match in any other sport I expect the best of the best playing a legit game. I'm the type of fan that expects that level of play in Dota as well but a lot of other fans do like these irreverent games.
I'm making a guess that if substantial money was on the line the participants wouldn't play like rodeo clowns which might be the reason the all star games in other scenes are serious.
Always good to have discussion, I like both EE's comments and HolyMaster's response. End of the day just keep trying different stuff, EE's view is definitely biased towards players and there will always be a pull/tug between organizers, players, owners and viewers.
On May 22 2015 07:15 ArchDC wrote: Always good to have discussion, I like both EE's comments and HolyMaster's response. End of the day just keep trying different stuff, EE's view is definitely biased towards players and there will always be a pull/tug between organizers, players, owners and viewers.
On May 22 2015 02:07 nimdil wrote: Why players don't want to play showmatches? IT's not like they have to try 100% and they play matches in the downtime anyway.
For the same reason I don't like watching them.
They aren't games of skill like the East vs West Conferences for Basketball or football.
Instead it's a joke match.
ARDM that we saw at TI4? (when rtz got void last) and some other tournament was the hypest shit ever. granted that was probably because it came down to the wire but the players who played seemed to enjoy it a lot and i think it was great for viewers.
i think there was an all star match where they spawned like 90 roshans or something, that is not fun to watch.
On May 22 2015 05:38 FHDH wrote: What exactly was the complaint about TS2 all-star match? There was money. Are you saying skill wasn't involved because it was ARDM? Or just it wasn't vanilla dota so it doesn't count? Don't tell me the players didn't try.
And yeah, sometimes as a professional whose entire fucking career requires fans you DO STUFF FOR THE FANS.
I understand EE not liking ARDM. But I don't care.
TS2 ARDM was the only all start game I look back at fondly. The game was enjoyable in many ways even if the quality was mediocre.
But every other all star game whether it was TI, Starladder etc sucked. I personally tune out after the first 8 minutes if I don't like the vibe of the game.
On May 22 2015 02:07 nimdil wrote: Why players don't want to play showmatches? IT's not like they have to try 100% and they play matches in the downtime anyway.
For the same reason I don't like watching them.
They aren't games of skill like the East vs West Conferences for Basketball or football.
Instead it's a joke match.
I wish they stopped making jokes of them. It should be a fun game, not spawning fountains in the middle of the map to make it end fast. Not sure how they should make the players and organisers feel it is an important game compared to a pub where they do try hard most of the time. It isn't like they have thousands of spectators that they just mess with...
Well the other all star games actually pay very well. If there was a prize winnings in Dota all stars they would be more serious as well.
So dota 2 players can't care about a game to a degree they care about training match of its called show match and is not loaded with cash? If that's the case I wonder if "thanks for cheering for me" is sincere because show matches are for fans and if you don't give a shit about them...
Keep in mind I'm biased against these types of show matches. If I watched an all star match in any other sport I expect the best of the best playing a legit game. I'm the type of fan that expects that level of play in Dota as well but a lot of other fans do like these irreverent games.
I'm making a guess that if substantial money was on the line the participants wouldn't play like rodeo clowns which might be the reason the all star games in other scenes are serious.
NFL all star game is much in the same vibe as the TI ones.
On May 22 2015 05:38 FHDH wrote: What exactly was the complaint about TS2 all-star match? There was money. Are you saying skill wasn't involved because it was ARDM? Or just it wasn't vanilla dota so it doesn't count? Don't tell me the players didn't try.
And yeah, sometimes as a professional whose entire fucking career requires fans you DO STUFF FOR THE FANS.
I understand EE not liking ARDM. But I don't care.
TS2 ARDM was the only all start game I look back at fondly. The game was enjoyable in many ways even if the quality was mediocre.
But every other all star game whether it was TI, Starladder etc sucked. I personally tune out after the first 8 minutes if I don't like the vibe of the game.
On May 22 2015 05:25 nimdil wrote:
On May 22 2015 05:03 mutantmagnet wrote:
On May 22 2015 03:32 Yurie wrote:
On May 22 2015 02:09 mutantmagnet wrote:
On May 22 2015 02:07 nimdil wrote: Why players don't want to play showmatches? IT's not like they have to try 100% and they play matches in the downtime anyway.
For the same reason I don't like watching them.
They aren't games of skill like the East vs West Conferences for Basketball or football.
Instead it's a joke match.
I wish they stopped making jokes of them. It should be a fun game, not spawning fountains in the middle of the map to make it end fast. Not sure how they should make the players and organisers feel it is an important game compared to a pub where they do try hard most of the time. It isn't like they have thousands of spectators that they just mess with...
Well the other all star games actually pay very well. If there was a prize winnings in Dota all stars they would be more serious as well.
So dota 2 players can't care about a game to a degree they care about training match of its called show match and is not loaded with cash? If that's the case I wonder if "thanks for cheering for me" is sincere because show matches are for fans and if you don't give a shit about them...
Keep in mind I'm biased against these types of show matches. If I watched an all star match in any other sport I expect the best of the best playing a legit game. I'm the type of fan that expects that level of play in Dota as well but a lot of other fans do like these irreverent games.
I'm making a guess that if substantial money was on the line the participants wouldn't play like rodeo clowns which might be the reason the all star games in other scenes are serious.
NFL all star game is much in the same vibe as the TI ones.
Yep. So was MLB until they decided to rest home field advantage of the world series on the outcome (or something very similar; I don't watch baseball).
On May 22 2015 02:07 nimdil wrote: Why players don't want to play showmatches? IT's not like they have to try 100% and they play matches in the downtime anyway.
For the same reason I don't like watching them.
They aren't games of skill like the East vs West Conferences for Basketball or football.
Instead it's a joke match.
ARDM that we saw at TI4? (when rtz got void last) and some other tournament was the hypest shit ever. granted that was probably because it came down to the wire but the players who played seemed to enjoy it a lot and i think it was great for viewers.
i think there was an all star match where they spawned like 90 roshans or something, that is not fun to watch.
that was summit 2
ti4 was actually a fucking pathetic joke where they gave rtz techies (omg big hype reveal) and he had no clue how to play it and failed miserably while getting run over by a tryharding 430
On May 22 2015 05:38 FHDH wrote: What exactly was the complaint about TS2 all-star match? There was money. Are you saying skill wasn't involved because it was ARDM? Or just it wasn't vanilla dota so it doesn't count? Don't tell me the players didn't try.
And yeah, sometimes as a professional whose entire fucking career requires fans you DO STUFF FOR THE FANS.
I understand EE not liking ARDM. But I don't care.
TS2 ARDM was the only all start game I look back at fondly. The game was enjoyable in many ways even if the quality was mediocre.
But every other all star game whether it was TI, Starladder etc sucked. I personally tune out after the first 8 minutes if I don't like the vibe of the game.
On May 22 2015 05:25 nimdil wrote:
On May 22 2015 05:03 mutantmagnet wrote:
On May 22 2015 03:32 Yurie wrote:
On May 22 2015 02:09 mutantmagnet wrote:
On May 22 2015 02:07 nimdil wrote: Why players don't want to play showmatches? IT's not like they have to try 100% and they play matches in the downtime anyway.
For the same reason I don't like watching them.
They aren't games of skill like the East vs West Conferences for Basketball or football.
Instead it's a joke match.
I wish they stopped making jokes of them. It should be a fun game, not spawning fountains in the middle of the map to make it end fast. Not sure how they should make the players and organisers feel it is an important game compared to a pub where they do try hard most of the time. It isn't like they have thousands of spectators that they just mess with...
Well the other all star games actually pay very well. If there was a prize winnings in Dota all stars they would be more serious as well.
So dota 2 players can't care about a game to a degree they care about training match of its called show match and is not loaded with cash? If that's the case I wonder if "thanks for cheering for me" is sincere because show matches are for fans and if you don't give a shit about them...
Keep in mind I'm biased against these types of show matches. If I watched an all star match in any other sport I expect the best of the best playing a legit game. I'm the type of fan that expects that level of play in Dota as well but a lot of other fans do like these irreverent games.
I'm making a guess that if substantial money was on the line the participants wouldn't play like rodeo clowns which might be the reason the all star games in other scenes are serious.
NFL all star game is much in the same vibe as the TI ones.
I don't really care about NFL.
I don't get the attitude and I'm strongly against such behaviour. Players invited to this show matches are generally already well payed progamers with quite a following. They definitely can give a damn and try to play good match for an hour. Maybe they forget that esport tournaments are entertainment events for fans first, not fundraisers for them.
On May 22 2015 05:38 FHDH wrote: What exactly was the complaint about TS2 all-star match? There was money. Are you saying skill wasn't involved because it was ARDM? Or just it wasn't vanilla dota so it doesn't count? Don't tell me the players didn't try.
And yeah, sometimes as a professional whose entire fucking career requires fans you DO STUFF FOR THE FANS.
I understand EE not liking ARDM. But I don't care.
TS2 ARDM was the only all start game I look back at fondly. The game was enjoyable in many ways even if the quality was mediocre.
But every other all star game whether it was TI, Starladder etc sucked. I personally tune out after the first 8 minutes if I don't like the vibe of the game.
On May 22 2015 05:25 nimdil wrote:
On May 22 2015 05:03 mutantmagnet wrote:
On May 22 2015 03:32 Yurie wrote:
On May 22 2015 02:09 mutantmagnet wrote:
On May 22 2015 02:07 nimdil wrote: Why players don't want to play showmatches? IT's not like they have to try 100% and they play matches in the downtime anyway.
For the same reason I don't like watching them.
They aren't games of skill like the East vs West Conferences for Basketball or football.
Instead it's a joke match.
I wish they stopped making jokes of them. It should be a fun game, not spawning fountains in the middle of the map to make it end fast. Not sure how they should make the players and organisers feel it is an important game compared to a pub where they do try hard most of the time. It isn't like they have thousands of spectators that they just mess with...
Well the other all star games actually pay very well. If there was a prize winnings in Dota all stars they would be more serious as well.
So dota 2 players can't care about a game to a degree they care about training match of its called show match and is not loaded with cash? If that's the case I wonder if "thanks for cheering for me" is sincere because show matches are for fans and if you don't give a shit about them...
Keep in mind I'm biased against these types of show matches. If I watched an all star match in any other sport I expect the best of the best playing a legit game. I'm the type of fan that expects that level of play in Dota as well but a lot of other fans do like these irreverent games.
I'm making a guess that if substantial money was on the line the participants wouldn't play like rodeo clowns which might be the reason the all star games in other scenes are serious.
NFL all star game is much in the same vibe as the TI ones.
Well players often get injured in the NFL, so it's kind of understandable they'll play to avoid getting hurt (not sacking the qb, etc) when the game isn't worth anything. This shouldn't be a problem in dota
Ehhhh...the players, they come to play. Put on good showmatch for fans is good, but that is bonus. They are players and they playmatch, not showers for showmatch. First entertainment come from the real games. If viewers want entertainment from showmatch, BTS invite twitch showers like the fluffy bunny and the voltron. Anderson believe animals and robots give good entertainment showmatch for the fans.
On May 23 2015 02:21 iG.AndersonSilva wrote: Ehhhh...the players, they come to play. Put on good showmatch for fans is good, but that is bonus. They are players and they playmatch, not showers for showmatch. First entertainment come from the real games. If viewers want entertainment from showmatch, BTS invite twitch showers like the fluffy bunny and the voltron. Anderson believe animals and robots give good entertainment showmatch for the fans.
Yeah but that's the thing. They get paid to play because of the fans. If the fans want to see them do it, it's not some ridiculous thing for them to just do it. Wow, one game in a tournament that isn't super tryhard. How can PROFESSIONALS cope with this.
On May 21 2015 14:04 Loomies wrote: I don't think Nexon will put that much effort into hosting a LAN when the game failed to gain traction after many Nexon Leagues. At least korean people will have to wait less since their servers are now accessible for everyone
Speaking of Nexon, does anyone know why the Korean Dota scene hasn't had any domestic leagues or tournaments since KDL in November? Have the organizations/Kespa given up on it? I always enjoyed watching the high production value Korean games. I feel like the Korean Dota scene is gonna stagnate like the rest of SEA if Nexon has stopped supporting the competitive teams.
It's supposed to be happening but they're still figuring out the schedule so it's taking forever to get started.. that shit got me to end up leaving Korea, gonna write about it with more infos on whats going on with KDL etc when I get the time
First EE mature blog probably? Much better writing too.
Well thought opinions on Majors, they actually make sense. I sincerely hope the 4 Majors help grow Dota, but it's also a bit scary for small tournaments getting less attention from T1 teams and consequently from viewers.
In a final remark, RedBull/BTS as the last Major would be totally fanfuckingtastic, but I don't think it's probable since TI is already hosted in USA, they would probably want an european host for it (assuming the other two are asian).
Very well thought out blog EE. Hopefully there is a more standardized method of setting up PCs across tournies in the future, although I don't know what that would mean for sponsorships.
On May 24 2015 11:28 eits wrote: Very well thought out blog EE. Hopefully there is a more standardized method of setting up PCs across tournies in the future, although I don't know what that would mean for sponsorships.
Although there was a lot of problems, in my opinion it’s clear that RedBull tried to take good care of the players. They even booked nicer hotels for the players and sent all the casters/other staff to an INN (LMFAO, that’s kinda mean ><).
Hard to say. There are tons of inns out there that are easily comparable to hotels, if not better in some cases.
Apparently RedBull was surprised by the need for practice PCS as their ESports comes from a starcraft II background and their players rarely need practice PCS.
I don't buy Redbull's excuse as being surprised. With Redbull's esports background, the last thing they have is experience with Dota 2 and other sports. This sounds like a budget problem. Perhaps they should have spent less money on parties and go-karting and instead pay to ship some computers there. It's almost as if they are trying to impress you so you're more willing to choose their tournament over other tournaments in the future.
Practice PCS in the hotel was available a few days before the event started, a lan cafe was booked if players wanted to use that as well.
And people wondered if the compendiums made BTS any money at all.
They used SSDs for their PCs so setting up was really fast, we even had them used for the practice PCs which has never been done in any other tournament.
I thought TI3+ used SSDs in their PCs.
There definitely were more commercials this time but the main reason for this is the length of the games being played. If there is less game time, there will be more commercial time. That’s just how things work.
Or they could move the schedule up and have teams on standby. Like sports on TV.
As for show matches, well the players don’t want to do them.
Honestly the majority are here to watch BTS and they don't care about show matches. The only issue is that the schedule has such large break periods that the production value started to drop because there was nothing going on. This is on BTS no matter how you want to look at it. It has nothing to do with quality of games.
Well first off what exactly is a major?
Tournaments that feature as many of the top teams as they can around the world. They aren't regional based. Regional tournaments don't work for esports unless you want to segregate competition.
Anyway, if anyone from the west should be hosting a major. I truly believe that it should be BTS, I’m honestly not even being bias.
Disagree.I don't think BTS should be running a major given their background. To have a major, and be the biggest casting studio, with like 1 year of experience behind them as a group? That's rediculous. I want to see a major NA organization step up and run a major. Like MLG or Redbull. Leaving it to BTS would be like leaving it to a bunch of kids. Valve and the rest of the world have expectations here. This isn't some home grown tournament that BTS can just lay claim to no matter how good their tournament was. And you are being biased, your blog pretty much praises BTS in every single way.
3 Majors will be APAC, EMEA, Americas most likely. The 4th being TI.
On May 24 2015 11:28 eits wrote: Very well thought out blog EE. Hopefully there is a more standardized method of setting up PCs across tournies in the future, although I don't know what that would mean for sponsorships.
There won't be, for like, a million reasons.
Imagine if one day we could possibly have virtualized OS'es in the cloud pre-configured with Steam and Dota 2. Every reboot restores the machine to that pristine state.
Sounds impossible, but maybe one day, not in a million years!
EPT
