All my life, I have been surrounded by adults who freak out at the idea of children being exposed to any nudity whatsoever.
I remember during one Superbowl halftime show, one of the actresses exposed her breast for a few seconds. The fallout of this simple risque act was huge. I remember parents TV going on and on about how "outraged" they were that their "precious innocent children" had been exposed to something so "disgusting" and "inappropriate". People were going on and on about "psychological damage". At the time, I didn't know what "psychological" meant, but it sure sounded scary.
I remember periodically seeing news reports on TV about the dangers of the internet, and how parents need to monitor their children at all times. Obviously there are plenty of legit dangers to children online, such as viruses, pedophiles trying to abduct them, hackers trying to phish passwords, etc. But one danger that was always mentioned during these reports was porn. Heck, porn was usually the first thing that was mentioned. "Oh you better watch your kids carefully, make sure they don't get corrupted by all that super dangerous porn!".
Everywhere you go, it seams that people absolutely freak out at the idea of children encountering porn on the internet. In the United States, it's actually a crime for an adult to transmit pornography to a minor (keep in mind that a "minor" could be someone who's 17). Schools that want to allow their students to access the internet are required to install a bunch of "net safety" software that blocks a bunch of legit sites and only about 40% of porn sites.
I started viewing pornography when I was 11. I did a google search for something innocuous (not going to say what because I don't want to get too personal with these blog posts), and google returned a bunch of porn sites on the first page. I clicked on one of the porn sites, not realizing what it was, and I liked what I saw.
Of course, I didn't have my own computer back then, so it was tricky to find time to search for porn. Luckily, my parents had just started leaving me home alone at that point, so there were opportunities here and there for me to indulge.
At the time I wasn't the computer-whiz I am now, so I didn't know about the existence of browsing history. Luckily for me, neither did my parents . And they didn't learn about browsing-history until I told them... after I had learned how to delete it (this was way back when Netscape Navigator and Internet Explorer were the only browsers available, so no Incognito Mode).
Throughout my tween years, I felt incredibly guilty about my habit. I felt bad for betraying my parents trust, since I had promised them I wouldn't google anything without asking them first, but I also just felt bad about my habit in general. Everyone around me was constantly talking about how evil pornography was; how psychologically damaging it was to children, etc.
Luckily, I eventually learned to think for myself, and was able to stop feeling guilty about my habit. That lifted a huge weight off of my shoulders. I was finally able to go about my daily life without feeling like a horrible person. As I started browsing forums and using chat rooms, I learned that my habit was much more common than I had realized. That made me feel even better.
Well, there you have it. I started using porn at the age of eleven, and you know what? I don't think it traumatized me, corrupted me, or inflicted "emotional damage" on me. Who would have thunk it? I don't know how much it's worth. I mean this is just one person's experience. Also, I'm not sure how easy it is to judge whether someone has been "emotionally damaged" by something. But I do know that viewing "adult content" at the age of 11 did not give me nightmares or PTSD or anything crazy.
And keep in mind, I wasn't just viewing soft-core erotica, either. Soft-core erotica is what I was looking for, but in the process of looking for it I stumbled upon plenty of super hard-core porn, which I wasn't into. But you know what? When I encountered something that was too hard-core for my tastes, I simply closed the tab (err, window, since tabs didn't exist when I was 11!) and moved onto something else. It didn't traumatize me one bit.
This experience has made me much more skeptical of any widely-accepted opinion. If something as widely-accepted as "porn bad for kids" turned out to be wrong in my case, what other widely-accepted "truths" might actually be wrong?
Being skeptical of a widely accepted opinion seems fine. Just be careful not to be skeptical because it's a widely accepted opinion. That's the other way around.
back in the good old days when you had to clear history browser. didn t even have headphones either. Good old Netscape Navigator there are many widely-accepted "truths" that are right in some cases and wrong in other cases. Its all depends on the case you are dealing with. There is no universal right or wrong. In your case (and mine) watching porn at that age was not an issue. However not everybody is the same, and until kids are ready to understand what they are watching, it would be wiser not to expose it to them. I' m much more concerned about kids growing up and not knowing what a three is
On April 06 2015 09:18 Yorbon wrote: Being skeptical of a widely accepted opinion seems fine. Just be careful not to be skeptical because it's a widely accepted opinion. That's the other way around.
Of course, I agree with you on this case.
Good point. I do have a tendency to fall into the trap of being skeptical of everything. I think I do that as an overcompensation because I used to be really gullible.
On April 06 2015 09:22 pebble444 wrote: back in the good old days when you had to clear history browser. didn t even have headphones either. Good old Netscape Navigator there are many widely-accepted "truths" that are right in some cases and wrong in other cases. Its all depends on the case you are dealing with. There is no universal right or wrong. In your case (and mine) watching porn at that age was not an issue. However not everybody is the same, and until kids are ready to understand what they are watching, it would be wiser not to expose it to them. I' m much more concerned about kids growing up and not knowing what a three is
Ugh, idk why but I always really hated Netscape. It just felt like a crappy program, even before I'd used something better.
It sounds like maybe a better rule would be "don't let kids view porn until they have a sex drive". At that point, they can understand what it is they are viewing. At the age of 11, I was capable of experiencing sexual pleasure; when I encountered porn, I understood that the creators of it were trying to satisfy this mysterious new desire that I had. If I'd encountered porn a couple years earlier, I wouldn't have had a sex drive, and therefore wouldn't have had any way of understanding what the heck it was I was seeing. I do not know whether this confusion would have been harmful, though.
On April 06 2015 09:01 codonbyte wrote: All my life, I have been surrounded by adults who freak out at the idea of children being exposed to any nudity whatsoever.
I remember during one Superbowl halftime show, one of the actresses exposed her breast for a few seconds.
On April 06 2015 09:01 codonbyte wrote: All my life, I have been surrounded by adults who freak out at the idea of children being exposed to any nudity whatsoever.
I remember during one Superbowl halftime show, one of the actresses exposed her breast for a few seconds.
TIL Janet Jackson was one of the actresses
Oh right, I remember now. It was actually part of the performance, but they tried to pretend it was a wardrobe malfunction so they wouldn't get in trouble with the FCC.
I'm trying to pin down your age based on the references in the OP, but it's proving difficult. You didn't know what psychology was apparently in 2004 (when the Jackson Superbowl wardrobe malfunction occurred), but there was no browser aside from ie and netscape when you were 11 and first looking at porn. Despite that, you were able toaware of google.
Either my memory is off or your story is slightly embellished somehow :p
On April 06 2015 10:31 micronesia wrote: I'm trying to pin down your age based on the references in the OP, but it's proving difficult. You didn't know what psychology was apparently in 2004 (when the Jackson Superbowl wardrobe malfunction occurred), but there was no browser aside from ie and netscape when you were 11 and first looking at porn. Despite that, you were able toaware of google.
Either my memory is off or your story is slightly embellished somehow :p
I probably could have chosen better wording in the OP. To clarify, I don't know for a fact that netscape and IE were the only browsers when I first started googling stuff, they were just the only browsers available to me at the time (my mom only uses Mac computers so selection at the time was somewhat limited, also she was quite hesitant to allow me to install new software on her computer).
Edit: I was 12 in February of 2004, when the Superbowl incident happened. I totally didn't remember being that old when the superbowl incident happened. Holy crap, was my vocabulary really that terrible? :p
I don't know if personal experience nullifies any argument. Sure, you started at 11, but does that mean every kid is ready to start looking at 11? I mean, I agree with two basic ideas: 1) children don't need to be sheltered from seeing nudity (and I mean non-sexual nudity, like paintings, or not letting your child watch a movie because a girl takes her shirt off in one scene) 2) children not being taught about sexuality. Parents should not leave their children in the dark about sex, especially since it's such an important part of life.
What I don't agree with is your idea that because your personal experience went a certain way, that it is true for everyone (or 'most people') as well. There are certain things on pornographic websites that I'm not sure I would want my kids to see. I'm talking about some really bad stuff, not just standard fucking or oral sex or even anal sex and stuff like that.
On April 06 2015 11:16 ninazerg wrote: I don't know if personal experience nullifies any argument. Sure, you started at 11, but does that mean every kid is ready to start looking at 11? I mean, I agree with two basic ideas: 1) children don't need to be sheltered from seeing nudity (and I mean non-sexual nudity, like paintings, or not letting your child watch a movie because a girl takes her shirt off in one scene) 2) children not being taught about sexuality. Parents should not leave their children in the dark about sex, especially since it's such an important part of life.
What I don't agree with is your idea that because your personal experience went a certain way, that it is true for everyone (or 'most people') as well. There are certain things on pornographic websites that I'm not sure I would want my kids to see. I'm talking about some really bad stuff, not just standard fucking or oral sex or even anal sex and stuff like that.
Believe me, I've encountered some of those things that you would not want your kids to see. Some things on extreme hardcore BDSM sites, for example. But even encountering stuff like that didn't leave me scarred.
Also, I never said that what's fine for me is fine for everyone, like you claim.
Our childhoods are inundated with stories of unrealistic love and really rigid gender stereotyping. This has had a much worse effect on our psychologies than watching porn in our teenage years has.
How many men suffer worsened sex lives because of porn? Some.
How many men suffer shame if their female partner makes more money than them? Most.
We should be a little less concerned with erections and a little more concerned with the garbage ideas we pass on to our children.
On April 06 2015 09:01 codonbyte wrote: Throughout my tween years, I felt incredibly guilty about my habit. I felt bad for betraying my parents trust, since I had promised them I wouldn't google anything without asking them first, but I also just felt bad about my habit in general. Everyone around me was constantly talking about how evil pornography was; how psychologically damaging it was to children, etc. ... ... This experience has made me much more skeptical of any widely-accepted opinion. If something as widely-accepted as "porn bad for kids" turned out to be wrong in my case, what other widely-accepted "truths" might actually be wrong?
Ted Bundy used this fear to coax concessions out of prosecutors. He had christian religious figure head guys championing his cause that "porn made him do it".
On April 06 2015 09:24 codonbyte wrote: Good point. I do have a tendency to fall into the trap of being skeptical of everything. I think I do that as an overcompensation because I used to be really gullible.
Being skeptical of everything is good, especially widely accepted opinions. You will most often find that people only have that opinion because it is hip to have that opinion, not because that opinion has any actual value to it. This is especially true in anything regarding the tech industries and internet.
On April 06 2015 12:15 Mora wrote: Our childhoods are inundated with stories of unrealistic love and really rigid gender stereotyping. This has had a much worse effect on our psychologies than watching porn in our teenage years has.
How many men suffer worsened sex lives because of porn? Some.
How many men suffer shame if their female partner makes more money than them? Most.
We should be a little less concerned with erections and a little more concerned with the garbage ideas we pass on to our children.
You hit the nail squarely on the head. All these gender roles are incredibly damaging. It took me years to "unlearn" all the sexism I internalized during my childhood. It was only about 2-3 years ago or so that I became 100% comfortable with asking a woman to help me lift something heavy, or beat me at video games or something.
Even my parents, who are fairly progressive, contributed to this. I remember my mom chiding me for not being able to traverse the horizontal ladder-like monkey bars on the playground. "Come on, even the girls are able to do it!". Oh, and for not being able to stay in the cold swimming pool for as long as "that little girl".
Damn, all that sexist crap was annoying to unlearn. When I have kids, I hope to avoid forcing gender roles on them. And if they end up picking up the porn habit? Oh well. Lots of people do it.
If your that curious about the issue and skeptical of popular opinion then you can read up on some of the science (both from a biological and a social perspective). I haven't looked into this topic but I do recall an article about porn and changes in the brain (I think it was reduced grey matter?)
Obviously with the way large scale information dissemination among a large group things get changed and exaggerated, but to say porn has 0 impact on a person (especially over consumption) is going in the opposite direction. Often the nuances of these things get lost when it comes to things society perceives as bad.
I think the United States just has an extremely messed up relationship with sex, period. It is presented as either the greatest good or the greatest evil. We are bombarded with it in media and advertising, constantly being reminded that everyone is and should be having sex all the time.
Regarding pornography I do think it can be harmful in the same way that gaming can. Used in moderation they are an outlet, but they can easily become a preoccupation and a surrogate for relationships and hobbies that are more fulfilling. Both porn and gaming can be like the carrot on the stick... youʻre always chasing the next high and it feels emptier each time. I think if our society wasnʻt so insane about sex and nudity, then there would be much less desire for porn.
On April 06 2015 14:59 Glowsphere wrote: I think the United States just has an extremely messed up relationship with sex, period. It is presented as either the greatest good or the greatest evil. We are bombarded with it in media and advertising, constantly being reminded that everyone is and should be having sex all the time.
Regarding pornography I do think it can be harmful in the same way that gaming can. Used in moderation they are an outlet, but they can easily become a preoccupation and a surrogate for relationships and hobbies that are more fulfilling. Both porn and gaming can be like the carrot on the stick... youʻre always chasing the next high and it feels emptier each time. I think if our society wasnʻt so insane about sex and nudity, then there would be much less desire for porn.
Yeah man, it really does seam like the US is just anal about any nudity. Actually, I think we're just really stupid about a lot of things. For example, how often do you hear about a kid getting kicked out of a school because they brought a water gun to school and "zero tolerance policy on weapons"? Or how about suspending a kid for drawing jesus on the cross. Oh, I'm not done yet. Let's not forget about this girl who was suspended for saying no to drugs (okay, what actually happened is a friend asked her if she wanted some prescription pills and put them in her hand, and she declined the offer, but she was suspended because she had touched the pills).
Honestly I think the US has an issue with not being stupid. I don't know what it is, but for some reason we Americans seem to be especially good at doing really dumb things.
Our physiology was not evolved to handle the phenomenon of internet porn (and given the deleterious effects, it seems unlikely that it will ever do so). You might not think it's affecting you negatively yet, but neither did all those guys who ended up with erectile dysfunction.
Overall this would seem to indicate we should encourage our adolescents to stay away from internet porn similarly to the way we keep them away from smoking.
On April 06 2015 09:01 codonbyte wrote: Throughout my tween years, I felt incredibly guilty about my habit. I felt bad for betraying my parents trust, since I had promised them I wouldn't google anything without asking them first, but I also just felt bad about my habit in general. Everyone around me was constantly talking about how evil pornography was; how psychologically damaging it was to children, etc. ... ... This experience has made me much more skeptical of any widely-accepted opinion. If something as widely-accepted as "porn bad for kids" turned out to be wrong in my case, what other widely-accepted "truths" might actually be wrong?
Ted Bundy used this fear to coax concessions out of prosecutors. He had christian religious figure head guys championing his cause that "porn made him do it".
EPT
. And they didn't learn about browsing-history until I told them... after I had learned how to delete it 
(this was way back when Netscape Navigator and Internet Explorer were the only browsers available, so no Incognito Mode). 
