All my life, I have been surrounded by adults who freak out at the idea of children being exposed to any nudity whatsoever.
I remember during one Superbowl halftime show, one of the actresses exposed her breast for a few seconds. The fallout of this simple risque act was huge. I remember parents TV going on and on about how "outraged" they were that their "precious innocent children" had been exposed to something so "disgusting" and "inappropriate". People were going on and on about "psychological damage". At the time, I didn't know what "psychological" meant, but it sure sounded scary.
I remember periodically seeing news reports on TV about the dangers of the internet, and how parents need to monitor their children at all times. Obviously there are plenty of legit dangers to children online, such as viruses, pedophiles trying to abduct them, hackers trying to phish passwords, etc. But one danger that was always mentioned during these reports was porn. Heck, porn was usually the first thing that was mentioned. "Oh you better watch your kids carefully, make sure they don't get corrupted by all that super dangerous porn!".
Everywhere you go, it seams that people absolutely freak out at the idea of children encountering porn on the internet. In the United States, it's actually a crime for an adult to transmit pornography to a minor (keep in mind that a "minor" could be someone who's 17). Schools that want to allow their students to access the internet are required to install a bunch of "net safety" software that blocks a bunch of legit sites and only about 40% of porn sites.
I started viewing pornography when I was 11. I did a google search for something innocuous (not going to say what because I don't want to get too personal with these blog posts), and google returned a bunch of porn sites on the first page. I clicked on one of the porn sites, not realizing what it was, and I liked what I saw.
Of course, I didn't have my own computer back then, so it was tricky to find time to search for porn. Luckily, my parents had just started leaving me home alone at that point, so there were opportunities here and there for me to indulge.
At the time I wasn't the computer-whiz I am now, so I didn't know about the existence of browsing history. Luckily for me, neither did my parents . And they didn't learn about browsing-history until I told them... after I had learned how to delete it (this was way back when Netscape Navigator and Internet Explorer were the only browsers available, so no Incognito Mode).
Throughout my tween years, I felt incredibly guilty about my habit. I felt bad for betraying my parents trust, since I had promised them I wouldn't google anything without asking them first, but I also just felt bad about my habit in general. Everyone around me was constantly talking about how evil pornography was; how psychologically damaging it was to children, etc.
Luckily, I eventually learned to think for myself, and was able to stop feeling guilty about my habit. That lifted a huge weight off of my shoulders. I was finally able to go about my daily life without feeling like a horrible person. As I started browsing forums and using chat rooms, I learned that my habit was much more common than I had realized. That made me feel even better.
Well, there you have it. I started using porn at the age of eleven, and you know what? I don't think it traumatized me, corrupted me, or inflicted "emotional damage" on me. Who would have thunk it? I don't know how much it's worth. I mean this is just one person's experience. Also, I'm not sure how easy it is to judge whether someone has been "emotionally damaged" by something. But I do know that viewing "adult content" at the age of 11 did not give me nightmares or PTSD or anything crazy.
And keep in mind, I wasn't just viewing soft-core erotica, either. Soft-core erotica is what I was looking for, but in the process of looking for it I stumbled upon plenty of super hard-core porn, which I wasn't into. But you know what? When I encountered something that was too hard-core for my tastes, I simply closed the tab (err, window, since tabs didn't exist when I was 11!) and moved onto something else. It didn't traumatize me one bit.
This experience has made me much more skeptical of any widely-accepted opinion. If something as widely-accepted as "porn bad for kids" turned out to be wrong in my case, what other widely-accepted "truths" might actually be wrong?
Being skeptical of a widely accepted opinion seems fine. Just be careful not to be skeptical because it's a widely accepted opinion. That's the other way around.
back in the good old days when you had to clear history browser. didn t even have headphones either. Good old Netscape Navigator there are many widely-accepted "truths" that are right in some cases and wrong in other cases. Its all depends on the case you are dealing with. There is no universal right or wrong. In your case (and mine) watching porn at that age was not an issue. However not everybody is the same, and until kids are ready to understand what they are watching, it would be wiser not to expose it to them. I' m much more concerned about kids growing up and not knowing what a three is
On April 06 2015 09:18 Yorbon wrote: Being skeptical of a widely accepted opinion seems fine. Just be careful not to be skeptical because it's a widely accepted opinion. That's the other way around.
Of course, I agree with you on this case.
Good point. I do have a tendency to fall into the trap of being skeptical of everything. I think I do that as an overcompensation because I used to be really gullible.
On April 06 2015 09:22 pebble444 wrote: back in the good old days when you had to clear history browser. didn t even have headphones either. Good old Netscape Navigator there are many widely-accepted "truths" that are right in some cases and wrong in other cases. Its all depends on the case you are dealing with. There is no universal right or wrong. In your case (and mine) watching porn at that age was not an issue. However not everybody is the same, and until kids are ready to understand what they are watching, it would be wiser not to expose it to them. I' m much more concerned about kids growing up and not knowing what a three is
Ugh, idk why but I always really hated Netscape. It just felt like a crappy program, even before I'd used something better.
It sounds like maybe a better rule would be "don't let kids view porn until they have a sex drive". At that point, they can understand what it is they are viewing. At the age of 11, I was capable of experiencing sexual pleasure; when I encountered porn, I understood that the creators of it were trying to satisfy this mysterious new desire that I had. If I'd encountered porn a couple years earlier, I wouldn't have had a sex drive, and therefore wouldn't have had any way of understanding what the heck it was I was seeing. I do not know whether this confusion would have been harmful, though.
On April 06 2015 09:01 codonbyte wrote: All my life, I have been surrounded by adults who freak out at the idea of children being exposed to any nudity whatsoever.
I remember during one Superbowl halftime show, one of the actresses exposed her breast for a few seconds.
On April 06 2015 09:01 codonbyte wrote: All my life, I have been surrounded by adults who freak out at the idea of children being exposed to any nudity whatsoever.
I remember during one Superbowl halftime show, one of the actresses exposed her breast for a few seconds.
TIL Janet Jackson was one of the actresses
Oh right, I remember now. It was actually part of the performance, but they tried to pretend it was a wardrobe malfunction so they wouldn't get in trouble with the FCC.
I'm trying to pin down your age based on the references in the OP, but it's proving difficult. You didn't know what psychology was apparently in 2004 (when the Jackson Superbowl wardrobe malfunction occurred), but there was no browser aside from ie and netscape when you were 11 and first looking at porn. Despite that, you were able toaware of google.
Either my memory is off or your story is slightly embellished somehow :p
On April 06 2015 10:31 micronesia wrote: I'm trying to pin down your age based on the references in the OP, but it's proving difficult. You didn't know what psychology was apparently in 2004 (when the Jackson Superbowl wardrobe malfunction occurred), but there was no browser aside from ie and netscape when you were 11 and first looking at porn. Despite that, you were able toaware of google.
Either my memory is off or your story is slightly embellished somehow :p
I probably could have chosen better wording in the OP. To clarify, I don't know for a fact that netscape and IE were the only browsers when I first started googling stuff, they were just the only browsers available to me at the time (my mom only uses Mac computers so selection at the time was somewhat limited, also she was quite hesitant to allow me to install new software on her computer).
Edit: I was 12 in February of 2004, when the Superbowl incident happened. I totally didn't remember being that old when the superbowl incident happened. Holy crap, was my vocabulary really that terrible? :p
I don't know if personal experience nullifies any argument. Sure, you started at 11, but does that mean every kid is ready to start looking at 11? I mean, I agree with two basic ideas: 1) children don't need to be sheltered from seeing nudity (and I mean non-sexual nudity, like paintings, or not letting your child watch a movie because a girl takes her shirt off in one scene) 2) children not being taught about sexuality. Parents should not leave their children in the dark about sex, especially since it's such an important part of life.
What I don't agree with is your idea that because your personal experience went a certain way, that it is true for everyone (or 'most people') as well. There are certain things on pornographic websites that I'm not sure I would want my kids to see. I'm talking about some really bad stuff, not just standard fucking or oral sex or even anal sex and stuff like that.
On April 06 2015 11:16 ninazerg wrote: I don't know if personal experience nullifies any argument. Sure, you started at 11, but does that mean every kid is ready to start looking at 11? I mean, I agree with two basic ideas: 1) children don't need to be sheltered from seeing nudity (and I mean non-sexual nudity, like paintings, or not letting your child watch a movie because a girl takes her shirt off in one scene) 2) children not being taught about sexuality. Parents should not leave their children in the dark about sex, especially since it's such an important part of life.
What I don't agree with is your idea that because your personal experience went a certain way, that it is true for everyone (or 'most people') as well. There are certain things on pornographic websites that I'm not sure I would want my kids to see. I'm talking about some really bad stuff, not just standard fucking or oral sex or even anal sex and stuff like that.
Believe me, I've encountered some of those things that you would not want your kids to see. Some things on extreme hardcore BDSM sites, for example. But even encountering stuff like that didn't leave me scarred.
Also, I never said that what's fine for me is fine for everyone, like you claim.
Our childhoods are inundated with stories of unrealistic love and really rigid gender stereotyping. This has had a much worse effect on our psychologies than watching porn in our teenage years has.
How many men suffer worsened sex lives because of porn? Some.
How many men suffer shame if their female partner makes more money than them? Most.
We should be a little less concerned with erections and a little more concerned with the garbage ideas we pass on to our children.
On April 06 2015 09:01 codonbyte wrote: Throughout my tween years, I felt incredibly guilty about my habit. I felt bad for betraying my parents trust, since I had promised them I wouldn't google anything without asking them first, but I also just felt bad about my habit in general. Everyone around me was constantly talking about how evil pornography was; how psychologically damaging it was to children, etc. ... ... This experience has made me much more skeptical of any widely-accepted opinion. If something as widely-accepted as "porn bad for kids" turned out to be wrong in my case, what other widely-accepted "truths" might actually be wrong?
Ted Bundy used this fear to coax concessions out of prosecutors. He had christian religious figure head guys championing his cause that "porn made him do it".
On April 06 2015 09:24 codonbyte wrote: Good point. I do have a tendency to fall into the trap of being skeptical of everything. I think I do that as an overcompensation because I used to be really gullible.
Being skeptical of everything is good, especially widely accepted opinions. You will most often find that people only have that opinion because it is hip to have that opinion, not because that opinion has any actual value to it. This is especially true in anything regarding the tech industries and internet.
On April 06 2015 12:15 Mora wrote: Our childhoods are inundated with stories of unrealistic love and really rigid gender stereotyping. This has had a much worse effect on our psychologies than watching porn in our teenage years has.
How many men suffer worsened sex lives because of porn? Some.
How many men suffer shame if their female partner makes more money than them? Most.
We should be a little less concerned with erections and a little more concerned with the garbage ideas we pass on to our children.
You hit the nail squarely on the head. All these gender roles are incredibly damaging. It took me years to "unlearn" all the sexism I internalized during my childhood. It was only about 2-3 years ago or so that I became 100% comfortable with asking a woman to help me lift something heavy, or beat me at video games or something.
Even my parents, who are fairly progressive, contributed to this. I remember my mom chiding me for not being able to traverse the horizontal ladder-like monkey bars on the playground. "Come on, even the girls are able to do it!". Oh, and for not being able to stay in the cold swimming pool for as long as "that little girl".
Damn, all that sexist crap was annoying to unlearn. When I have kids, I hope to avoid forcing gender roles on them. And if they end up picking up the porn habit? Oh well. Lots of people do it.
If your that curious about the issue and skeptical of popular opinion then you can read up on some of the science (both from a biological and a social perspective). I haven't looked into this topic but I do recall an article about porn and changes in the brain (I think it was reduced grey matter?)
Obviously with the way large scale information dissemination among a large group things get changed and exaggerated, but to say porn has 0 impact on a person (especially over consumption) is going in the opposite direction. Often the nuances of these things get lost when it comes to things society perceives as bad.
I think the United States just has an extremely messed up relationship with sex, period. It is presented as either the greatest good or the greatest evil. We are bombarded with it in media and advertising, constantly being reminded that everyone is and should be having sex all the time.
Regarding pornography I do think it can be harmful in the same way that gaming can. Used in moderation they are an outlet, but they can easily become a preoccupation and a surrogate for relationships and hobbies that are more fulfilling. Both porn and gaming can be like the carrot on the stick... youʻre always chasing the next high and it feels emptier each time. I think if our society wasnʻt so insane about sex and nudity, then there would be much less desire for porn.
On April 06 2015 14:59 Glowsphere wrote: I think the United States just has an extremely messed up relationship with sex, period. It is presented as either the greatest good or the greatest evil. We are bombarded with it in media and advertising, constantly being reminded that everyone is and should be having sex all the time.
Regarding pornography I do think it can be harmful in the same way that gaming can. Used in moderation they are an outlet, but they can easily become a preoccupation and a surrogate for relationships and hobbies that are more fulfilling. Both porn and gaming can be like the carrot on the stick... youʻre always chasing the next high and it feels emptier each time. I think if our society wasnʻt so insane about sex and nudity, then there would be much less desire for porn.
Yeah man, it really does seam like the US is just anal about any nudity. Actually, I think we're just really stupid about a lot of things. For example, how often do you hear about a kid getting kicked out of a school because they brought a water gun to school and "zero tolerance policy on weapons"? Or how about suspending a kid for drawing jesus on the cross. Oh, I'm not done yet. Let's not forget about this girl who was suspended for saying no to drugs (okay, what actually happened is a friend asked her if she wanted some prescription pills and put them in her hand, and she declined the offer, but she was suspended because she had touched the pills).
Honestly I think the US has an issue with not being stupid. I don't know what it is, but for some reason we Americans seem to be especially good at doing really dumb things.
Our physiology was not evolved to handle the phenomenon of internet porn (and given the deleterious effects, it seems unlikely that it will ever do so). You might not think it's affecting you negatively yet, but neither did all those guys who ended up with erectile dysfunction.
Overall this would seem to indicate we should encourage our adolescents to stay away from internet porn similarly to the way we keep them away from smoking.
On April 06 2015 09:01 codonbyte wrote: Throughout my tween years, I felt incredibly guilty about my habit. I felt bad for betraying my parents trust, since I had promised them I wouldn't google anything without asking them first, but I also just felt bad about my habit in general. Everyone around me was constantly talking about how evil pornography was; how psychologically damaging it was to children, etc. ... ... This experience has made me much more skeptical of any widely-accepted opinion. If something as widely-accepted as "porn bad for kids" turned out to be wrong in my case, what other widely-accepted "truths" might actually be wrong?
Ted Bundy used this fear to coax concessions out of prosecutors. He had christian religious figure head guys championing his cause that "porn made him do it".
Our physiology was not evolved to handle the phenomenon of internet porn (and given the deleterious effects, it seems unlikely that it will ever do so). You might not think it's affecting you negatively yet, but neither did all those guys who ended up with erectile dysfunction.
Overall this would seem to indicate we should encourage our adolescents to stay away from internet porn similarly to the way we keep them away from smoking.
A couple things. First of all, lol at that site name (yourbrainonporn.com). Gee, I wonder if that site has an agenda? Glanced at a couple of the articles. This one is written by authors from goodmenproject.com. Look at the names of these websites. This has bible-belt propaganda written all over it.
Edit: lol this guy beat me to it!
On April 06 2015 16:20 KnowNothing wrote: Much more likely, religious figures approached him with self-righteous forgiveness and an offer if he would champion their cause.
Well said! Yeah, these are the same people who are pushing abstinence-only sex education in American schools.
There is a reason why it takes so long for humans to grow up compared to other animals. It's because the BRAIN needs extra time to develop. That's why parents have a natural tendency to keep the development of the brain free from potentially bad influences.
That's an innate behavior of parents. Sure, you could claim that porn isn't that bad and doesn't affect the wiring of the child's brain. But nobody is going to make that experiment on their own children.
To be fair and accurate, the thread title should be " Porn not harmful to me"
On April 06 2015 14:30 Slaughter wrote: If your that curious about the issue and skeptical of popular opinion then you can read up on some of the science (both from a biological and a social perspective). I haven't looked into this topic but I do recall an article about porn and changes in the brain (I think it was reduced grey matter?)
Obviously with the way large scale information dissemination among a large group things get changed and exaggerated, but to say porn has 0 impact on a person (especially over consumption) is going in the opposite direction. Often the nuances of these things get lost when it comes to things society perceives as bad.
thanks for the link but to be fair you need to include a quote from the article before saying that.
“It's not clear, for example, whether watching porn leads to brain changes or whether people born with certain brain types watch more porn,” study author Dr. Simone Kühn of the Max Planck Institute for Human Development in Berlin told Reuters in an email.
Our physiology was not evolved to handle the phenomenon of internet porn (and given the deleterious effects, it seems unlikely that it will ever do so). You might not think it's affecting you negatively yet, but neither did all those guys who ended up with erectile dysfunction.
Overall this would seem to indicate we should encourage our adolescents to stay away from internet porn similarly to the way we keep them away from smoking.
"Our physiology was not evolved to handle the phenomenon of internet porn" LMAO I wish I could 5/5 posts. As for the OP, yeah well what do you want, blatant hypocrisy has been a major part of every society ever. Move along.
On April 06 2015 09:01 codonbyte wrote: Throughout my tween years, I felt incredibly guilty about my habit. I felt bad for betraying my parents trust, since I had promised them I wouldn't google anything without asking them first, but I also just felt bad about my habit in general. Everyone around me was constantly talking about how evil pornography was; how psychologically damaging it was to children, etc. ... ... This experience has made me much more skeptical of any widely-accepted opinion. If something as widely-accepted as "porn bad for kids" turned out to be wrong in my case, what other widely-accepted "truths" might actually be wrong?
Ted Bundy used this fear to coax concessions out of prosecutors. He had christian religious figure head guys championing his cause that "porn made him do it".
Much more likely, religious figures approached him with self-righteous forgiveness and an offer if he would champion their cause.
Bundy used any and every piece of leverage he had to sweeten his deal during his time in prison. the religious leader guys were merely 1 pawn in his over all game.
For some reasons I glanced across the thumbnail for the video and thought it is about Al Bundy (from that silly sitcom, the guy even superficial resembles him). The rest of the related discussion is then interestingly surreal.
Sheltering children only harms them in unpredictable ways that parents can't control. When I was 14, my father discovered porn downloaded on our computer (at the time we only had one computer in the house). My parents went absolutely ballistic and threatened to discipline me and stuff like that. But knowing the taboo nature of this material only intensified my desire to seek out similar, and increasingly more perverse, content. I started to become more and more preoccupied with nude female physiques and came to regard them as a source of visceral beauty, elegant sophistication, divine art, and physical pleasure. I believe that to deny children the freedom to understand their own sexuality is a grievous offense and limits their capacity to understand themselves and the outside world.
On April 06 2015 10:31 micronesia wrote: I'm trying to pin down your age based on the references in the OP, but it's proving difficult. You didn't know what psychology was apparently in 2004 (when the Jackson Superbowl wardrobe malfunction occurred), but there was no browser aside from ie and netscape when you were 11 and first looking at porn. Despite that, you were able toaware of google.
Either my memory is off or your story is slightly embellished somehow :p
Lol I thought exactly the same thing, when I think IE/Netscape it reminds me of when I was 10years old and playing diablo1 online. I'm pretty damn sure google wasn't around (or wasn't popular yet) back then, we all used altavista .
I had sex issues when I was younger to the point of faking orgasm. It was directly linked to porn. NoFap saved my sexlife. ^^ Be wary of anecdotal evidence, you risk sounding quite ignorant.
I'm ok with you being ignorant, but you shouldn't be.
edit:
Just in case, because you seem to think it's relevant; I'm atheist.
Nudity is not the same as sex. You can argue that there is nothing wrong with children seeing naked people from a naturism viewpoint. Preadolescent children shouldn't be exposed to sexual content without their wishes (and they aren't capable of making an informed decision).
On April 06 2015 09:01 codonbyte wrote: All my life, I have been surrounded by adults who freak out at the idea of children being exposed to any nudity whatsoever.
I remember during one Superbowl halftime show, one of the actresses exposed her breast for a few seconds. The fallout of this simple risque act was huge. I remember parents TV going on and on about how "outraged" they were that their "precious innocent children" had been exposed to something so "disgusting" and "inappropriate". People were going on and on about "psychological damage". At the time, I didn't know what "psychological" meant, but it sure sounded scary.
I remember periodically seeing news reports on TV about the dangers of the internet, and how parents need to monitor their children at all times. Obviously there are plenty of legit dangers to children online, such as viruses, pedophiles trying to abduct them, hackers trying to phish passwords, etc. But one danger that was always mentioned during these reports was porn. Heck, porn was usually the first thing that was mentioned. "Oh you better watch your kids carefully, make sure they don't get corrupted by all that super dangerous porn!".
Everywhere you go, it seams that people absolutely freak out at the idea of children encountering porn on the internet. In the United States, it's actually a crime for an adult to transmit pornography to a minor (keep in mind that a "minor" could be someone who's 17). Schools that want to allow their students to access the internet are required to install a bunch of "net safety" software that blocks a bunch of legit sites and only about 40% of porn sites.
I started viewing pornography when I was 11. I did a google search for something innocuous (not going to say what because I don't want to get too personal with these blog posts), and google returned a bunch of porn sites on the first page. I clicked on one of the porn sites, not realizing what it was, and I liked what I saw.
Of course, I didn't have my own computer back then, so it was tricky to find time to search for porn. Luckily, my parents had just started leaving me home alone at that point, so there were opportunities here and there for me to indulge.
At the time I wasn't the computer-whiz I am now, so I didn't know about the existence of browsing history. Luckily for me, neither did my parents . And they didn't learn about browsing-history until I told them... after I had learned how to delete it (this was way back when Netscape Navigator and Internet Explorer were the only browsers available, so no Incognito Mode).
Throughout my tween years, I felt incredibly guilty about my habit. I felt bad for betraying my parents trust, since I had promised them I wouldn't google anything without asking them first, but I also just felt bad about my habit in general. Everyone around me was constantly talking about how evil pornography was; how psychologically damaging it was to children, etc.
Luckily, I eventually learned to think for myself, and was able to stop feeling guilty about my habit. That lifted a huge weight off of my shoulders. I was finally able to go about my daily life without feeling like a horrible person. As I started browsing forums and using chat rooms, I learned that my habit was much more common than I had realized. That made me feel even better.
Well, there you have it. I started using porn at the age of eleven, and you know what? I don't think it traumatized me, corrupted me, or inflicted "emotional damage" on me. Who would have thunk it? I don't know how much it's worth. I mean this is just one person's experience. Also, I'm not sure how easy it is to judge whether someone has been "emotionally damaged" by something. But I do know that viewing "adult content" at the age of 11 did not give me nightmares or PTSD or anything crazy.
And keep in mind, I wasn't just viewing soft-core erotica, either. Soft-core erotica is what I was looking for, but in the process of looking for it I stumbled upon plenty of super hard-core porn, which I wasn't into. But you know what? When I encountered something that was too hard-core for my tastes, I simply closed the tab (err, window, since tabs didn't exist when I was 11!) and moved onto something else. It didn't traumatize me one bit.
This experience has made me much more skeptical of any widely-accepted opinion. If something as widely-accepted as "porn bad for kids" turned out to be wrong in my case, what other widely-accepted "truths" might actually be wrong?
I feel like you created this big post about the stigma around sexuality and people being sexual, but then link that to porn and use it to justify your "habit" which is very odd.
As someone who works with addicts including sex addicts and porn addicts, and sees the effects first hand in marriages, relationships and lives. Years of peer reviewed research and literature are very clear: Porn is bad for everyone. Sexuality is good for everyone, in moderation.
Let's not confuse the two. They aren't the same, or even close. There is a lot of stigma around sexuality, which is ridiculous, because there shouldn't be. But porn is literally the institutionalization of rape that objectifies the human body. But that is a story for another time.
As for individuals... well why do people watch porn? Because they don't get to have enough sex. And that is in large part due to the stigma around sexuality. So stigma around sexuality literally created the pornography industry. So porn is part of the problem, it isn't the solution.
Anyway, I'm sure you can find the Danish study that says porn doesn't do anything to your mental health ect... just like I can find studies that say global warming is a myth. But at the end of the day, you'll believe what you want, and I'll believe what I want. Just make sure you don't deny the problem if you end up in counseling please, because it is annoying.
I feel like you created this big post about the stigma around sexuality and people being sexual, but then link that to porn and use it to justify your "habit" which is very odd.
As someone who works with addicts including sex addicts and porn addicts, and sees the effects first hand in marriages, relationships and lives. Years of peer reviewed research and literature are very clear: Porn is bad for everyone. Sexuality is good for everyone, in moderation.
Let's not confuse the two. They aren't the same, or even close. There is a lot of stigma around sexuality, which is ridiculous, because there shouldn't be. But porn is literally the institutionalization of rape that objectifies the human body. But that is a story for another time.
As for individuals... well why do people watch porn? Because they don't get to have enough sex. And that is in large part due to the stigma around sexuality. So stigma around sexuality literally created the pornography industry. So porn is part of the problem, it isn't the solution.
Anyway, I'm sure you can find the Danish study that says porn doesn't do anything to your mental health ect... just like I can find studies that say global warming is a myth. But at the end of the day, you'll believe what you want, and I'll believe what I want. Just make sure you don't deny the problem if you end up in counseling please, because it is annoying.
I don't really get your point there... Your first point is that you CAN get addicted to viewing porn. YES, that's right, but you can get addicted to everything you like. You don't say eating for example is bad because you can get addicted to it. And I would be really interested to see some of that literature showing how bad Porn is. Much of the bad coming from Porn is people who can't see the difference between porn and RL. Also I don't think that people who watch much porn would have necesserely more sex without its existence and that the stigma around sexuality is generated by porn industry makes no sense at all. This stigma was already there when the porn industry kicked in... ever heard of people being forced to wear a chastity belt in medieval times just because they had sex before marriage. So basically you can argue that that stigma is made by church.
Our physiology was not evolved to handle the phenomenon of internet porn (and given the deleterious effects, it seems unlikely that it will ever do so). You might not think it's affecting you negatively yet, but neither did all those guys who ended up with erectile dysfunction.
Overall this would seem to indicate we should encourage our adolescents to stay away from internet porn similarly to the way we keep them away from smoking.
A couple things. First of all, lol at that site name (yourbrainonporn.com). Gee, I wonder if that site has an agenda? Glanced at a couple of the articles. This one is written by authors from goodmenproject.com. Look at the names of these websites. This has bible-belt propaganda written all over it.
On April 06 2015 16:20 KnowNothing wrote: Much more likely, religious figures approached him with self-righteous forgiveness and an offer if he would champion their cause.
Well said! Yeah, these are the same people who are pushing abstinence-only sex education in American schools.
I haven't read any of the articles, but this kind of argument is a fallacy. There are over 50 cited journal articles in that list of links and you are discrediting all of them, not on scientific grounds, but because a couple of the other links listed (the non-scientific ones) were from "Bible belt" sources. Sorry, as a scientist, this sort of stuff just pisses me off. Obviously, with so much research, there must be something there, at least enough for some kind of response requiring an actual thought. Of course that website is biased, their whole message is that porn is bad, but they at least listed their sources and are well-cited. It's not some stupid bullshit like "studies show" and then no studies at all are listed, or it's just like 12 studies from one kooky author, there are a LOT of studies there. That people who are against porn in general (religious) cite articles showing porn could be harmful or affect brain chemistry is not a good reason to ignore what the articles say. Actually I'll go further, its a dumb reason.
I know I bookmarked that site and plan to look over some of the papers listed, only because at least I'll learn what they have to say instead of ignoring it. Don't bury your head in the sand when someone says something you disagree with, learn about it! Make up your own mind after looking at the data, not because of superstition or fallacies. If studies conflict, learn about the methodology and what flaws might be present. We need more people who will actually try to learn about topics that interest them and then decide based on knowledge and good science.
Whoops that just turned into a rant, and not necessarily against you, just the world in general. I guess reading about the "food babe" today has already used up my tolerance for willful ignorance and disregard of real scientific studies.
I feel like you created this big post about the stigma around sexuality and people being sexual, but then link that to porn and use it to justify your "habit" which is very odd.
As someone who works with addicts including sex addicts and porn addicts, and sees the effects first hand in marriages, relationships and lives. Years of peer reviewed research and literature are very clear: Porn is bad for everyone. Sexuality is good for everyone, in moderation.
Let's not confuse the two. They aren't the same, or even close. There is a lot of stigma around sexuality, which is ridiculous, because there shouldn't be. But porn is literally the institutionalization of rape that objectifies the human body. But that is a story for another time.
As for individuals... well why do people watch porn? Because they don't get to have enough sex. And that is in large part due to the stigma around sexuality. So stigma around sexuality literally created the pornography industry. So porn is part of the problem, it isn't the solution.
Anyway, I'm sure you can find the Danish study that says porn doesn't do anything to your mental health ect... just like I can find studies that say global warming is a myth. But at the end of the day, you'll believe what you want, and I'll believe what I want. Just make sure you don't deny the problem if you end up in counseling please, because it is annoying.
I don't really get your point there... Your first point is that you CAN get addicted to viewing porn. YES, that's right, but you can get addicted to everything you like. You don't say eating for example is bad because you can get addicted to it. And I would be really interested to see some of that literature showing how bad Porn is. Much of the bad coming from Porn is people who can't see the difference between porn and RL. Also I don't think that people who watch much porn would have necesserely more sex without its existence and that the stigma around sexuality is generated by porn industry makes no sense at all. This stigma was already there when the porn industry kicked in... ever heard of people being forced to wear a chastity belt in medieval times just because they had sex before marriage. So basically you can argue that that stigma is made by church.
Just something I want to point out: The point that you can get addicted to many things is hardly sound. You can get addicted to water, sweeping the floor, getting a haircut, etc. but how often does that actually happen? There are things that are obviously more addictive than others, such as nicotine (and other drugs), gambling, and a host of others. Sex and arousal have a higher potential to cause addiction than other things due to the dopamine release and all that jazz. So him saying that porn is addictive is a perfectly valid point. You can't toss it aside simply by saying "you can get to everything you like."
Our physiology was not evolved to handle the phenomenon of internet porn (and given the deleterious effects, it seems unlikely that it will ever do so). You might not think it's affecting you negatively yet, but neither did all those guys who ended up with erectile dysfunction.
Overall this would seem to indicate we should encourage our adolescents to stay away from internet porn similarly to the way we keep them away from smoking.
A couple things. First of all, lol at that site name (yourbrainonporn.com). Gee, I wonder if that site has an agenda? Glanced at a couple of the articles. This one is written by authors from goodmenproject.com. Look at the names of these websites. This has bible-belt propaganda written all over it.
Edit: lol this guy beat me to it!
On April 06 2015 16:20 KnowNothing wrote: Much more likely, religious figures approached him with self-righteous forgiveness and an offer if he would champion their cause.
Well said! Yeah, these are the same people who are pushing abstinence-only sex education in American schools.
I haven't read any of the articles, but this kind of argument is a fallacy. There are over 50 cited journal articles in that list of links and you are discrediting all of them, not on scientific grounds, but because a couple of the other links listed (the non-scientific ones) were from "Bible belt" sources. Sorry, as a scientist, this sort of stuff just pisses me off. Obviously, with so much research, there must be something there, at least enough for some kind of response requiring an actual thought. Of course that website is biased, their whole message is that porn is bad, but they at least listed their sources and are well-cited. It's not some stupid bullshit like "studies show" and then no studies at all are listed, or it's just like 12 studies from one kooky author, there are a LOT of studies there. That people who are against porn in general (religious) cite articles showing porn could be harmful or affect brain chemistry is not a good reason to ignore what the articles say. Actually I'll go further, its a dumb reason.
I know I bookmarked that site and plan to look over some of the papers listed, only because at least I'll learn what they have to say instead of ignoring it. Don't bury your head in the sand when someone says something you disagree with, learn about it! Make up your own mind after looking at the data, not because of superstition or fallacies. If studies conflict, learn about the methodology and what flaws might be present. We need more people who will actually try to learn about topics that interest them and then decide based on knowledge and good science.
Whoops that just turned into a rant, and not necessarily against you, just the world in general. I guess reading about the "food babe" today has already used up my tolerance for willful ignorance and disregard of real scientific studies.
You're right. I didn't have time to read fifty different articles, so I picked a couple at random. And the ones that I picked came from sources with strong political agendas. Obviously to get a proper read on the reliability of the site, we'd have to read all the articles, which I don't have time to do at the moment. However, I never pretended that I had read all fifty articles. I was very open about exactly how much information I had looked at, and what I had found. I never claimed that my post was a concrete fact; I simply stated the impression I had with the first couple articles that I glanced at.
That's not in any way burrying my head in the sand; that's simply giving a quick look and stating what my first impression is.
I don't know whether I'll go back and read all 50 articles or not. On the one hand, I do want to learn the truth about whether or not I'm harming myself by using porn. On the other hand, it would likely be a waste of time to read all those articles since I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be able to stop using porn if I were to learn that it is harmful, due to my incredibly shitty self-control *sigh*.
Our physiology was not evolved to handle the phenomenon of internet porn (and given the deleterious effects, it seems unlikely that it will ever do so). You might not think it's affecting you negatively yet, but neither did all those guys who ended up with erectile dysfunction.
Overall this would seem to indicate we should encourage our adolescents to stay away from internet porn similarly to the way we keep them away from smoking.
A couple things. First of all, lol at that site name (yourbrainonporn.com). Gee, I wonder if that site has an agenda? Glanced at a couple of the articles. This one is written by authors from goodmenproject.com. Look at the names of these websites. This has bible-belt propaganda written all over it.
Edit: lol this guy beat me to it!
On April 06 2015 16:20 KnowNothing wrote: Much more likely, religious figures approached him with self-righteous forgiveness and an offer if he would champion their cause.
Well said! Yeah, these are the same people who are pushing abstinence-only sex education in American schools.
I haven't read any of the articles, but this kind of argument is a fallacy. There are over 50 cited journal articles in that list of links and you are discrediting all of them, not on scientific grounds, but because a couple of the other links listed (the non-scientific ones) were from "Bible belt" sources. Sorry, as a scientist, this sort of stuff just pisses me off. Obviously, with so much research, there must be something there, at least enough for some kind of response requiring an actual thought. Of course that website is biased, their whole message is that porn is bad, but they at least listed their sources and are well-cited. It's not some stupid bullshit like "studies show" and then no studies at all are listed, or it's just like 12 studies from one kooky author, there are a LOT of studies there. That people who are against porn in general (religious) cite articles showing porn could be harmful or affect brain chemistry is not a good reason to ignore what the articles say. Actually I'll go further, its a dumb reason.
I know I bookmarked that site and plan to look over some of the papers listed, only because at least I'll learn what they have to say instead of ignoring it. Don't bury your head in the sand when someone says something you disagree with, learn about it! Make up your own mind after looking at the data, not because of superstition or fallacies. If studies conflict, learn about the methodology and what flaws might be present. We need more people who will actually try to learn about topics that interest them and then decide based on knowledge and good science.
Whoops that just turned into a rant, and not necessarily against you, just the world in general. I guess reading about the "food babe" today has already used up my tolerance for willful ignorance and disregard of real scientific studies.
You're right. I didn't have time to read fifty different articles, so I picked a couple at random. And the ones that I picked came from sources with strong political agendas. Obviously to get a proper read on the reliability of the site, we'd have to read all the articles, which I don't have time to do at the moment. However, I never pretended that I had read all fifty articles. I was very open about exactly how much information I had looked at, and what I had found. I never claimed that my post was a concrete fact; I simply stated the impression I had with the first couple articles that I glanced at.
That's not in any way burrying my head in the sand; that's simply giving a quick look and stating what my first impression is.
I don't know whether I'll go back and read all 50 articles or not. On the one hand, I do want to learn the truth about whether or not I'm harming myself by using porn. On the other hand, it would likely be a waste of time to read all those articles since I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be able to stop using porn if I were to learn that it is harmful, due to my incredibly shitty self-control *sigh*.
The link you quoted isn't even from the scientific section, it's from the "website" section, so maybe you pulled a link at random, but what you posted was not indicative of the page the author linked, and how you presented it was not correct either. I opened a few of the scientific links and got 3 legit articles and a 150+ page doctoral thesis from a German university (that included a 100+ paper bibliography with more references). + Show Spoiler +
My agenda is not to make you stop masturbating or to stop looking at porn, but just to not dismiss stuff out of hand that doesn't fit with what you think is correct for bad reasons. There IS science on that page, and sure it may be collected by a group that has ideals that conflict with yours, but that doesn't mean the science is bad or should be dismissed in the way you originally posted.
I also didn't want others who could be potentially interested to not look at that site because they read what you wrote and thought something that wasn't true. There's a lot of interesting brain chemistry and psychological information collected there that's worth looking at if you're interested in that sort of thing. I bet there's even information about why self-control is hard. Anyway, sorry you were on the wrong side of my rant, like I said, I've just had my fill of science-phobia today.
Our physiology was not evolved to handle the phenomenon of internet porn (and given the deleterious effects, it seems unlikely that it will ever do so). You might not think it's affecting you negatively yet, but neither did all those guys who ended up with erectile dysfunction.
Overall this would seem to indicate we should encourage our adolescents to stay away from internet porn similarly to the way we keep them away from smoking.
A couple things. First of all, lol at that site name (yourbrainonporn.com). Gee, I wonder if that site has an agenda? Glanced at a couple of the articles. This one is written by authors from goodmenproject.com. Look at the names of these websites. This has bible-belt propaganda written all over it.
Edit: lol this guy beat me to it!
On April 06 2015 16:20 KnowNothing wrote: Much more likely, religious figures approached him with self-righteous forgiveness and an offer if he would champion their cause.
Well said! Yeah, these are the same people who are pushing abstinence-only sex education in American schools.
I haven't read any of the articles, but this kind of argument is a fallacy. There are over 50 cited journal articles in that list of links and you are discrediting all of them, not on scientific grounds, but because a couple of the other links listed (the non-scientific ones) were from "Bible belt" sources. Sorry, as a scientist, this sort of stuff just pisses me off. Obviously, with so much research, there must be something there, at least enough for some kind of response requiring an actual thought. Of course that website is biased, their whole message is that porn is bad, but they at least listed their sources and are well-cited. It's not some stupid bullshit like "studies show" and then no studies at all are listed, or it's just like 12 studies from one kooky author, there are a LOT of studies there. That people who are against porn in general (religious) cite articles showing porn could be harmful or affect brain chemistry is not a good reason to ignore what the articles say. Actually I'll go further, its a dumb reason.
I know I bookmarked that site and plan to look over some of the papers listed, only because at least I'll learn what they have to say instead of ignoring it. Don't bury your head in the sand when someone says something you disagree with, learn about it! Make up your own mind after looking at the data, not because of superstition or fallacies. If studies conflict, learn about the methodology and what flaws might be present. We need more people who will actually try to learn about topics that interest them and then decide based on knowledge and good science.
Whoops that just turned into a rant, and not necessarily against you, just the world in general. I guess reading about the "food babe" today has already used up my tolerance for willful ignorance and disregard of real scientific studies.
You're right. I didn't have time to read fifty different articles, so I picked a couple at random. And the ones that I picked came from sources with strong political agendas. Obviously to get a proper read on the reliability of the site, we'd have to read all the articles, which I don't have time to do at the moment. However, I never pretended that I had read all fifty articles. I was very open about exactly how much information I had looked at, and what I had found. I never claimed that my post was a concrete fact; I simply stated the impression I had with the first couple articles that I glanced at.
That's not in any way burrying my head in the sand; that's simply giving a quick look and stating what my first impression is.
I don't know whether I'll go back and read all 50 articles or not. On the one hand, I do want to learn the truth about whether or not I'm harming myself by using porn. On the other hand, it would likely be a waste of time to read all those articles since I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be able to stop using porn if I were to learn that it is harmful, due to my incredibly shitty self-control *sigh*.
The link you quoted isn't even from the scientific section, it's from the "website" section, so maybe you pulled a link at random, but what you posted was not indicative of the page the author linked, and how you presented it was not correct either. I opened a few of the scientific links and got 3 legit articles and a 150+ page doctoral thesis from a German university (that included a 100+ paper bibliography with more references). + Show Spoiler +
My agenda is not to make you stop masturbating or to stop looking at porn, but just to not dismiss stuff out of hand that doesn't fit with what you think is correct for bad reasons. There IS science on that page, and sure it may be collected by a group that has ideals that conflict with yours, but that doesn't mean the science is bad or should be dismissed in the way you originally posted.
I also didn't want others who could be potentially interested to not look at that site because they read what you wrote and thought something that wasn't true. There's a lot of interesting brain chemistry and psychological information collected there that's worth looking at if you're interested in that sort of thing. I bet there's even information about why self-control is hard. Anyway, sorry you were on the wrong side of my rant, like I said, I've just had my fill of science-phobia today.
Oh no worries, man. Your point is basically correct, although tbh I think there's only so much we can learn about the effects of porn without doing a "proper" experiment, and obviously we can't do such an experiment because it would be unethical, hence why I'm skeptical of all the studies there, since we can't do "the forbidden experiment".
But yeah, you are correct, I used a shitty argument form. And I get really pissed when people use that type of argument on reddit, but I just used it. So much for me not being a hypocrit :p
Our physiology was not evolved to handle the phenomenon of internet porn (and given the deleterious effects, it seems unlikely that it will ever do so). You might not think it's affecting you negatively yet, but neither did all those guys who ended up with erectile dysfunction.
Overall this would seem to indicate we should encourage our adolescents to stay away from internet porn similarly to the way we keep them away from smoking.
A couple things. First of all, lol at that site name (yourbrainonporn.com). Gee, I wonder if that site has an agenda? Glanced at a couple of the articles. This one is written by authors from goodmenproject.com. Look at the names of these websites. This has bible-belt propaganda written all over it.
Edit: lol this guy beat me to it!
On April 06 2015 16:20 KnowNothing wrote: Much more likely, religious figures approached him with self-righteous forgiveness and an offer if he would champion their cause.
Well said! Yeah, these are the same people who are pushing abstinence-only sex education in American schools.
I haven't read any of the articles, but this kind of argument is a fallacy. There are over 50 cited journal articles in that list of links and you are discrediting all of them, not on scientific grounds, but because a couple of the other links listed (the non-scientific ones) were from "Bible belt" sources. Sorry, as a scientist, this sort of stuff just pisses me off. Obviously, with so much research, there must be something there, at least enough for some kind of response requiring an actual thought. Of course that website is biased, their whole message is that porn is bad, but they at least listed their sources and are well-cited. It's not some stupid bullshit like "studies show" and then no studies at all are listed, or it's just like 12 studies from one kooky author, there are a LOT of studies there. That people who are against porn in general (religious) cite articles showing porn could be harmful or affect brain chemistry is not a good reason to ignore what the articles say. Actually I'll go further, its a dumb reason.
I know I bookmarked that site and plan to look over some of the papers listed, only because at least I'll learn what they have to say instead of ignoring it. Don't bury your head in the sand when someone says something you disagree with, learn about it! Make up your own mind after looking at the data, not because of superstition or fallacies. If studies conflict, learn about the methodology and what flaws might be present. We need more people who will actually try to learn about topics that interest them and then decide based on knowledge and good science.
Whoops that just turned into a rant, and not necessarily against you, just the world in general. I guess reading about the "food babe" today has already used up my tolerance for willful ignorance and disregard of real scientific studies.
You're right. I didn't have time to read fifty different articles, so I picked a couple at random. And the ones that I picked came from sources with strong political agendas. Obviously to get a proper read on the reliability of the site, we'd have to read all the articles, which I don't have time to do at the moment. However, I never pretended that I had read all fifty articles. I was very open about exactly how much information I had looked at, and what I had found. I never claimed that my post was a concrete fact; I simply stated the impression I had with the first couple articles that I glanced at.
That's not in any way burrying my head in the sand; that's simply giving a quick look and stating what my first impression is.
I don't know whether I'll go back and read all 50 articles or not. On the one hand, I do want to learn the truth about whether or not I'm harming myself by using porn. On the other hand, it would likely be a waste of time to read all those articles since I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be able to stop using porn if I were to learn that it is harmful, due to my incredibly shitty self-control *sigh*.
The link you quoted isn't even from the scientific section, it's from the "website" section, so maybe you pulled a link at random, but what you posted was not indicative of the page the author linked, and how you presented it was not correct either. I opened a few of the scientific links and got 3 legit articles and a 150+ page doctoral thesis from a German university (that included a 100+ paper bibliography with more references). + Show Spoiler +
My agenda is not to make you stop masturbating or to stop looking at porn, but just to not dismiss stuff out of hand that doesn't fit with what you think is correct for bad reasons. There IS science on that page, and sure it may be collected by a group that has ideals that conflict with yours, but that doesn't mean the science is bad or should be dismissed in the way you originally posted.
I also didn't want others who could be potentially interested to not look at that site because they read what you wrote and thought something that wasn't true. There's a lot of interesting brain chemistry and psychological information collected there that's worth looking at if you're interested in that sort of thing. I bet there's even information about why self-control is hard. Anyway, sorry you were on the wrong side of my rant, like I said, I've just had my fill of science-phobia today.
Oh no worries, man. Your point is basically correct, although tbh I think there's only so much we can learn about the effects of porn without doing a "proper" experiment, and obviously we can't do such an experiment because it would be unethical, hence why I'm skeptical of all the studies there, since we can't do "the forbidden experiment".
But yeah, you are correct, I used a shitty argument form. And I get really pissed when people use that type of argument on reddit, but I just used it. So much for me not being a hypocrit :p
Well, we are all hypocrites at times, next time you can call me out on it. :D
On April 06 2015 12:18 Mora wrote: Like seriously.
The amount of trauma my 11 year old cousin has experienced because he is allowed to use facebook is DWARFED by anything porn has done to anyone.
The world is so fucking fucked.
Porn doesn't traumatize kids.
What porn does is give kids a completely unrealistic expectation of what sex is. The vast majority of porn on the internet is very one-sided and objectifying; it essentially teaches adolescent boys (in general, since boys are a much larger audience for porn) that sex is a selfish act where the only aim is one's own pleasure and that the other person is the object.
Now, this isn't a problem in-and-of-itself. There are a large number of mediums that are completely unrealistic in how they portray things; action movies, songs, video games, novels, etc. The problem is when kids learn attitudes about sex from watching porn, and this is where parental responsibility comes in. Completely sheltering kids from nudity/porn until you can't legally control them just leaves them in the dark in terms of education. Eventually, they will get into it, and when they do, they'll have no idea what the fuck is going on. Instead of that, parents should be a little less prudish and actually teach their kids responsible attitudes/habits about sexuality, the human body, etc.
You don't just shelter kids from cigarettes without teaching them about the negative effects. You don't just hide kids from shitty food without teaching them about nutrition. You don't just teach kids abstinence without teaching them safe sex habits (if you want to actually accomplish anything, that is). Prohibition doesn't work. It never has.
EPT
. And they didn't learn about browsing-history until I told them... after I had learned how to delete it 
(this was way back when Netscape Navigator and Internet Explorer were the only browsers available, so no Incognito Mode). 
