EPTOn December 17 2014 01:36 calippo wrote:
try and win a few tournaments before talking.
try and win a few tournaments before talking.
LoL, coming from a random dota 2 fan who as never qualified for anything dota related.
My Perspective on ＤｏｔＡ ２ - Page 13
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
LoL, coming from a random dota 2 fan who as never qualified for anything dota related. | ||
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calippo
Sweden2525 Posts
On December 16 2014 15:43 Headnoob wrote: TI4 marked the end of my interest in watching dota, it was incredibly messy and convoluted and after TI the tournaments just felt like they didn't even matter, especially when they've been run so atrociously. The thing about casters is most definitely a huge problem, dota has no casters who are the quality of tastosis; There needs to be 10 pros who just flat out stop and go to casting to fix this kind of shit. there is plenty of caster duos with 1 good guy and 1 awful guy, just like tastosis User was warned for this post | ||
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OmniEulogy
Canada6600 Posts
On December 17 2014 01:16 an00bis wrote: Not sure if posted yet but an interesting video/different perspective Help Thorin is making a lot of sense to me. | ||
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calippo
Sweden2525 Posts
On December 17 2014 01:40 Plansix wrote: LoL, coming from a random dota 2 fan who as never qualified for anything dota related. hehe sarcasm | ||
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hariooo
Canada2830 Posts
On December 17 2014 00:48 Krishan.bif wrote: ok let me compose myself for a second then and be less hostile. My issue with this blog is not the oversaturation of tourneys. It's his claim that it's oversaturated. There are more orgs this year, and the year before that. We can't stop that from happening, because the game is growing at a fast rate. People are going to start throwing money at dota because they've seen it work and profit. But instead of having foresight and common sense to decline invites with conflicting schedules with other tourneys, THEY DO THE OPPOSITE. And then act like the orgs pointed a gun to their heads to accept, so it's their fault they are burning out rofl do you see how absurd it is? So say no. Whatever happens to the tourneys they declined, happens. Maybe they lose money because of the lesser viewership. Or maybe some tier 2 team gets the chance to shine and pave the way to more viewers. But stop acting like spoiled children that had no say to this outcome, when in fact you had every oppurtunity to prevent it. Hmm Tourney A and Tourney B would have their LAN playoffs held on back-to-back weekends. It should be an easy decision just to choose to do one right? But oh wait thy're both 4 months away and there's 3 months worth of qualifiers so I guess the only responsible decision is to play both in case we don't qualify for one. And well we can't jeopardize our TI invite when all these other teams are playing in both. Why are these teams playing in tournaments they don't want to? Because it's a pretty simple game theory Nash equilibrium. Many decisions adults have to make about making a living are going to be the lesser of two evils. It's like having someone tell you to "why don't you just move and get a new job" if something is going wrong at your current place of work. It's never that simple. You can't fuck yourself over just to prove a point. For people who have never had to make these kinds of decisions, try to be grateful and grow up a little. | ||
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Dysisa
Sweden2376 Posts
I also entirely agree with you on there being a huge over saturation with tournaments. Every tournament wants to be top dog (after TI of course) and it just makes all of them lose impact entirely. The last non-TI tourney I genuinely gave a crap about was like, Starladder IX maybe? I wish there would be more tournaments that aim at amateur or lower tier teams instead. Maybe then we could see more people actually coming into the scene, instead of having one tournament a week with the same 6 - 10 teams. | ||
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NeThZOR
South Africa7387 Posts
On December 17 2014 01:25 Lightlycan51 wrote: I will always follow you Envy, no matter where you go i will support you, anime 4 lyfe! Contender for best 1st post on LD | ||
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Its A Game
Peru1 Post
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govie
9334 Posts
On December 17 2014 01:43 OmniEulogy wrote: Help Thorin is making a lot of sense to me. Thorin is an asshole, doesnt like debate. | ||
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calippo
Sweden2525 Posts
On December 17 2014 02:00 Dysisa wrote: Never thought I'd see the day where I agree with you, EE. Most Dota casters are shamefully bad and don't even try to improve. People like Ayesee and Zyori for instance, they bring nothing at all to a cast. I mean I guess Ayesee has a nice voice and a lot of fake hype, but Zyori just shits things up wherever he goes. People like Pyrion Flax or Sunsfan I can at least forgive, because they try to steer clear of serious games and don't try to hide that they are just 'for fun' casters, even if I don't personally care for them. It's a shame that BTS is such a joke, since they are as large as they are. I feel they are mostly to blame for the overall low quality of casters. I also entirely agree with you on there being a huge over saturation with tournaments. Every tournament wants to be top dog (after TI of course) and it just makes all of them lose impact entirely. The last non-TI tourney I genuinely gave a crap about was like, Starladder IX maybe? I wish there would be more tournaments that aim at amateur or lower tier teams instead. Maybe then we could see more people actually coming into the scene, instead of having one tournament a week with the same 6 - 10 teams. I feel the caster issue applies to a lot of games, i have never really been happy with casters in any game i play myself and have decent understanding about. Too bad its fuckin impossible to get yourself into the scene as a new caster when its almost the same 10-12 ppl casting every single event  | ||
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malcram
2752 Posts
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hfglgg
Germany5372 Posts
On December 17 2014 01:46 hariooo wrote: Why are these teams playing in tournaments they don't want to? Because it's a pretty simple game theory Nash equilibrium. Many decisions adults have to make about making a living are going to be the lesser of two evils. It's like having someone tell you to "why don't you just move and get a new job" if something is going wrong at your current place of work. It's never that simple. You can't fuck yourself over just to prove a point. as i have already said earlier, if valve would disclose how many teams get invited from each region a lot of pressure on the top teams would be lifted. the issue right now is that teams dont now how good compared to the rest they have to be to get invited. if we take a look at last year, c9 was probably the 5th invite for europe and their results between ti3 and ti4 werent really outstanding. they got 5-8th place most of the time and a few second places in smaller tournaments. that was enough to secure an invite for ti. its mostly on valves side that teams dont know where they stand, but i am 99% sure (and so should be the players) that there will be 5 invites for the western scene, so the only thing you have to achieve as a team is be among the 5 best teams. you dont need to prove in every single small tournament that you are top 2, just get consistent top 5 placements in tournaments and you are good to go. even if you fail the qualifier, you might end up being the 4th. best european team which is still enough for a ti invite. so while valve can (and has to) clear the mist on how you have to perform to get invited, the teams, especially the successfull teams, have to look on the whole thing from a much calmer, much more logical perspective. | ||
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TheTenthDoc
United States9561 Posts
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MirageTaN
Singapore871 Posts
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Weasel-
Canada1556 Posts
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Mataza
Germany5364 Posts
Possible we need an intervention on this. Like football/soccer having one master class league, or tennis having a big tournament circuit that matters. While pro teams could vote with their participation, by only attending tournaments with high quality organization, EE-sama makes sense that they can't really do that if they want to get in on the next TI. | ||
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
He's pretty articulate but he's also completely impractical and ill-informed. | ||
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zzdd
United States484 Posts
Many tournaments don't necessarily hurt the scene but when you have them one after another, the results become meaningless. You're only a champion for a week before the next champion is crowned. This also hurts players because they have less time to review, strategize and refine their play. This might be why the game seems so stale because no one has the time to practice anything different (and also the fact that it wins). Another issue is most teams are shit. There are only a handful of teams that can win and the rest of the teams are like watching a pub. You can predict the teams, score, and draft for every tournament's finals in the next couple months with ease. When the top teams don't even practice and still win all tournaments, it should show you how bad the scene is. When the results are expected and not exciting it hurts the viewership. It's happened for many game when a team goes on a winning streak and it's no different for Dota. Teams need to step up and get better or disband. | ||
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bloodwhore~
1010 Posts
exact same format. Right now: 1. VP vs mYi are playing in joinDOTA masters 2. VP.Polar vs Empire in D2L 3. Natasha vs Secret in StarSeries | ||
stuchiu
Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
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