EPTWe are all experts here.
Chinese Dota will be Chinese Dota again - Page 2
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
We are all experts here. | ||
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YourGoodFriend
United States2197 Posts
It will definitely be the wild west for the first few competitive games and will be a lot of fun to watch | ||
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ahswtini
Northern Ireland22212 Posts
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JewishOverlord
United States36 Posts
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bo1b
Australia12814 Posts
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Demand2k
Norway875 Posts
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On September 25 2014 23:40 JewishOverlord wrote: It actually discourages you from getting a super advantage and encourages pick offs, but I wish this brought back 4 protect 1. I want to see ultra rice fest carries again. You will be entertained for 2 months and then we will all be begging for Russian dota again. | ||
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Kishin2
United States7534 Posts
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RuiBarbO
United States1340 Posts
I did the calculation myself using motbob's example and couldn't actually get precise gold values without deciding on a number for the losing team's net worth. My math skills are a little rusty but assuming that the losing team has 8k total net worth and the enemy core is level 11, the AOE bounty value I got was 421. Now if it's true that the full AOE bounty goes to each hero individually, that's a lot of money. But if it doesn't, then it's actually quite low, even if the core is a much higher level (say 15 at the 15 minute mark). On another note, even in motbob's example, the losing team still only makes up less than 25% of the difference in net worth, which, everything else being equal, is not going to suddenly put the losing team back in the lead. Before, it was actually quite costly to spend three heroes to gank the enemy core because you didn't even make up 10% of the difference for what was probably a good 30 seconds at least of lost farming or pushing time. And I think there's still an incentive for the winning team to gank, since the hero who last hits still gets a full last-hit bounty---you just can't commit 3-4 heroes to that gank and expect that to make up the opportunity cost of just farming/pushing on its own. But if you gank and that leads to a winning teamfight or tower push or aegis, then it's still probably worthwhile. | ||
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Kabras
Romania3508 Posts
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motbob
United States12546 Posts
On September 26 2014 03:39 RuiBarbO wrote: The wording in the patch notes is a bit ambiguous, but let's say that we use the formula Valve provides to get the new AOE bounty (3 heroes = 20 + 5*level + 0.25(NWFactor)). Does that AOE bounty go to each hero involved, or does it split in 3? In other words, does the ganking team get 3 times the AOE bounty added to their overall net worth, or do they just get the AOE bounty added to their overall net worth? I did the calculation myself using motbob's example and couldn't actually get precise gold values without deciding on a number for the losing team's net worth. My math skills are a little rusty but assuming that the losing team has 8k total net worth and the enemy core is level 11, the AOE bounty value I got was 421. Now if it's true that the full AOE bounty goes to each hero individually, that's a lot of money. But if it doesn't, then it's actually quite low, even if the core is a much higher level (say 15 at the 15 minute mark). On another note, even in motbob's example, the losing team still only makes up less than 25% of the difference in net worth, which, everything else being equal, is not going to suddenly put the losing team back in the lead. Before, it was actually quite costly to spend three heroes to gank the enemy core because you didn't even make up 10% of the difference for what was probably a good 30 seconds at least of lost farming or pushing time. And I think there's still an incentive for the winning team to gank, since the hero who last hits still gets a full last-hit bounty---you just can't commit 3-4 heroes to that gank and expect that to make up the opportunity cost of just farming/pushing on its own. But if you gank and that leads to a winning teamfight or tower push or aegis, then it's still probably worthwhile. The bounty as calculated in previous patches was not split, and there is no reason to believe that this new bounty is split. If we were to assume that the bounty is split, that would mean that the gold gained in 3-5 man ganks is MUCH lower than it was pre-patch, as long as the ganking team is ahead. That doesn't seem like a reasonable outcome. Of course, I can be proved right or wrong by testing in-game. It's hard to come up with numbers when doing the math for this patch. The net worth difference is important, but so is the total net worth of the teams. The best thing to do is to look at actual games for data. Take this game for example: http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/919526792 . You just plug in the data from this game to see that a kill on kyxy at the very end of the match with 5 heroes in the AOE would have netted ~3800 gold, plus the streak gold. | ||
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theqat
United States2856 Posts
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RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
On September 26 2014 03:56 Kabras wrote: we're not gonna see the return of anything because of a billion reasons. mainly tho cuz this is a completely new map that nobody knows how to play optimally on yet. icefrog just nerfed the fuck out of pushing, probably cuz of the ti stomps and buffed ganking through the hero bounty rework. expect a lot of killing and picks like night stalker, bh, beastmaster and probably a lot more slark. some teams might try to abuse the glyph and tower armor changes and go farm heavy but with gankers being so good in this version that's a pretty high risk play. I don't see how this patch really benefits beastmaster or NS. Beast is still a jack of all trades master of none, and night stalker got raped by the day/night change in 6.79. | ||
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Madlobster
Norway70 Posts
How about at least trying the game before complaining about it? We dont even know how things will unfold, for all we know the meta can evolve and be the best spectator metagame that has ever been. Put down your pitchforks, pick them up again when there is reason for it... | ||
Elyvilon
United States13143 Posts
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On September 26 2014 19:38 Elyvilon wrote: man how about that farmfest Chinese meta huh SoonTM(or never) | ||
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Fire Turtles
527 Posts
On September 26 2014 19:38 Elyvilon wrote: man how about that farmfest Chinese meta huh Well, it WAS a Spectre versus a Morphling... | ||
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NeThZOR
South Africa7387 Posts
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Archeon
3265 Posts
That being said throwing is punished harder than ever, which imo is a good thing for comebacks. I like close games way more than ti4 stomps. | ||
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a-game
Canada5199 Posts
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