• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 17:17
CET 23:17
KST 07:17
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners12Intel X Team Liquid Seoul event: Showmatches and Meet the Pros10
Community News
BGE Stara Zagora 2026 announced13[BSL21] Ro.16 Group Stage (C->B->A->D)4Weekly Cups (Nov 17-23): Solar, MaxPax, Clem win3RSL Season 3: RO16 results & RO8 bracket13Weekly Cups (Nov 10-16): Reynor, Solar lead Zerg surge2
StarCraft 2
General
BGE Stara Zagora 2026 announced Information Request Regarding Chinese Ladder SC: Evo Complete - Ranked Ladder OPEN ALPHA When will we find out if there are more tournament Weekly Cups (Nov 17-23): Solar, MaxPax, Clem win
Tourneys
$5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship Constellation Cup - Main Event - Stellar Fest RSL Revival: Season 3 Tenacious Turtle Tussle [Alpha Pro Series] Nice vs Cure
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 502 Negative Reinforcement Mutation # 501 Price of Progress Mutation # 500 Fright night Mutation # 499 Chilling Adaptation
Brood War
General
FlaSh's Valkyrie Copium BW General Discussion BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ A cwal.gg Extension - Easily keep track of anyone Which season is the best in ASL?
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL21] RO16 Group B - Sunday 21:00 CET [BSL21] RO16 Group C - Saturday 21:00 CET Small VOD Thread 2.0
Strategy
Game Theory for Starcraft How to stay on top of macro? Current Meta PvZ map balance
Other Games
General Games
Path of Exile Nintendo Switch Thread The Perfect Game Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Beyond All Reason
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread The Big Programming Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Artificial Intelligence Thread
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
Formula 1 Discussion 2024 - 2026 Football Thread NBA General Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023 TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Where to ask questions and add stream? The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Esports Earnings: Bigger Pri…
TrAiDoS
Thanks for the RSL
Hildegard
Saturation point
Uldridge
DnB/metal remix FFO Mick Go…
ImbaTosS
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 2243 users

The NSL I should've won - Korean DotA Part 1

Blogs > cArn-
Post a Reply
Normal
cArn-
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Korea (South)824 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-05-14 06:27:10
May 12 2014 11:30 GMT
#1
I've been wanting to write some blog series about my career as a DotA player in Korea since the last season of competition here in Korea finished, but didn't get around doing it ; I think the release of Liquiddota.com is a good opportunity to do so (can't resist that Clinkz icon). So here is the very beginning of it.

I'll start by introducing myself for those who don't know me :

I'm cArn-, former French Starcraft II progamer in Korea since October 2010. Before that I've played a ton of DotA back when I was in Europe, I would say for about 8 years if not more. I was playing mostly some of the high level closed inhouses and other leagues that were happening on iRC etc at the time, and competed in a couple teams aswell.
I've always had a huge passion for DotA, but I didn't really have time for it anymore after I switched to Starcraft II fulltime.
However, DotA 2 was announced at pretty dark times of my sc2 career, so once it actually came out here, it made the most sense to me to switch back to the game I was from, especially when my situation regarding Starcraft would be completely reversed (I would be the one with previous experience as opposed to Starcraft 2 being my first RTS)

I was still splitting my time between sc2 and DotA 2 until the release was made official, which was the point I completely made the switch and stopped practicing sc2 alltogether. That was about a month or so before NSL 2 rolled in.

I was obviously extremely sloppy compared to the level of play I had back in Europe, so I had to get back in shape. Another problem I had was that I literally knew nobody in the Korean DotA scene beside Heen who was still in the army when I started playing in anticipation. I've known Heen from some time now, playing WC3 DotA together from time to time when I was taking a break from practice and when he was able to play, so I was planning on building a team with him. Unfortunately for me he already had something in the works as March talked to him and was gonna bring him, ReiSen, FoRev and Solara to make a 2nd MVP squad. I talked to March after MVP's match at the Nexon invitational (where dignitas, Speed etc came to play) to ask about their plans etc and if they had a spot but they already had 5, with Solara not completely sure he wanted to do this.
I was kinda sad because I really wanted to play on a team with Heen but it seemed like it wouldn't work..

An opportunity to take off...

I decided to just back and keep training to get back to shape, and try to make a name for myself on the Korean server. I was still pretty far from being in the kind of shape I was before when Heen messaged me with what I thought was an amazing news : Solara wouldn't make it in time for the NSL 2 qualifiers and the first rounds, so they were looking for a standin and Heen was the one to bring someone in, so he asked me if I was up to do it and play mid for them.
Obviously I was very happy to do it, even though I wouldn't be contracted for this or get paid directly, all I wanted was to get some experience in here and most importantly, get exposure to the Korean scene that would allow me to find players or a team after I'm done helping MVP.
I switched my focus completely on practicing mid and stopped going to the weekly tv shoots I was doing (I'm doing some acting in Korea). I was gonna lose quite a bit of money doing this but I didn't care, it was an opportunity I had to make the most of. As soon as I got more used to the DotA 2 engine and graphics etc, my mechanics got back pretty quickly and I was getting closer to what I used to do best, which was dominating my lane and finding a lot of farm.
One thing that seemed to play in my favor too is that I didn't really know who was good or not in Korea, and people didn't know me, so I wasn't giving any unnecessary respect to anyone and was maybe getting underestimated, which resulted in me pretty much destroying anyone I would lane against, including people like QO and MP who were/are regarded as the best Korean mid players (but again, I didn't know them).

A couple weeks passed by and we had to play in the NSL 2 qualifiers during the weekend. They were played in some PC cafe that was reserved for the occasion, so I met up with the rest of the team and the coach there before the games started. There was 4 groups of 4 teams, winner of the group advances to the Ro8 of the NSL 2. The 2 first games were pretty one sided, every lane got pretty much stomped ; The 3rd one was a bit closer since we were kinda throwing and I was playing Elder Titan which I never do, so I was kinda underwhelming.
It didn't matter tho, we 3-0'd the group and were the first team to qualify for the Ro8 beside the previous season top 4. We all left with MVP's manager to get dinner to celebrate, then we went to his house where he handed the MVP jersey freshly arrived to the members, but strangely he didn't give me one, which I would need for the profile photoshoot the coming week and for the games ; I simply assumed he didn't have my size ready today. He also gave me a bunch of gear from their sponsors, keyboard mouse bag and whatnot to thank me for helping them.
Afterwards, the manager drives Heen March and me to the subway station so that we can go home, which is when I ask March why I haven't been given a jersey since we have the photoshoot soon, which is when he tells me that it's possible that they won't need me for the playoffs even tho it's more likely they will.. that got me kinda down but I thought to myself I should just wait and see.
A couple days later he messages me to tell me that I'll be playing so I'll have to come for the photoshoot on Thursday ; I was very happy at that point, I would have my chance to show my skill, so I kept practicing as usual.. until the day before the photoshoot.

... or not

Heen messaged me to let me know that March managed to get DeMoN to come play with them.. My mind was both blank and filled with anger. I wasn't sure what to think of it and how to react, until they tell me to join a lobby for practice. I join and after a couple minutes decide I can't take this and message March for explanations ; not much to say, just that he is sorry but he thinks they have better chances with DeMoN, so obviously I leave the lobby and tell him to go on and practice with him then instead of keeping taking advantage of me.
Even though I can't blame him for thinking this, the fact that he keeps me as 3rd wheel for himself until the very last moment made me furious, I got tagged in this NSL with them and wasn't even gonna play a game. I also really think we would have had similar chances to win with me instead, not because I was playing better than DeMoN but because the style we were playing with me was more solid than the 4 protect DeMoN they used with him, which was very different than their original style.

When I played with them they would simply let me do my thing mid and not rotate mid, while the pressure I put there forces ennemies' supports to rotate to do something about it, leaving both March and Heen unaccounted for. Playing this style was hell for me at the beginning, I was getting so much hate and couldn't keep on crushing mid, and sometimes died bit too much, but it made me learn to play safer and waste supports time, creating space for the others cores to freefarm while ennemies cores become vulnerable.
That wouldn't work as well if I wasn't able to pressure mid as much as I usually did, but it was very unlikely to happen given the level of play there at that time.

In the end, I didn't get to play a single game on stage when I was promised I would play the first couple rounds at least. I was upset. VERY upset. Now I wasn't too sure what I would be able to do make a name for myself and find a team of my own, and watching them stomp through the whole NSL and barely take the title 3-2 to 5inQ, a team we didn't drop a single map to before iirc, got me really depressed.

It felt like this title was a title I should have gotten since ; Solara never got to Korea in time for the finals so I would have played them. I was finally in a position to take a major title and, even though we can't know for sure if we would have actually won it with me in DeMoN's place, the odds were still heavily on our side.

After cooling off and thinking about my situation, I came to the conclusion that it was way too early to have this unfortunate turn of event get me down. I have been trying so hard in sc2 in Korea for over 3 years, so I was familiar with these kinds of setbacks, and in a much much more unforgiving environment ; it would be stupid to let the first one I had in DotA 2 make me slow down, especially with the NSL 3 coming up, and many more opportunities we still didn't even know about at the time.
Twitter : http://twitter.com/CARNDARAK
Steveling
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Greece10806 Posts
May 12 2014 11:31 GMT
#2
Woah nice stuff.
You should really do what you must.
My dick has shrunk to the point where it looks like I have 3 balls.
ahswtini
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Northern Ireland22208 Posts
May 12 2014 11:42 GMT
#3
That's really sad, I'd feel pretty shit a team qualified with me on the roster, then dropped me for playoffs. Do you bear any bad feelings with any of the MVP players? Like March, whom it sounds like was the one who made the decision to get Demon.

You still pub with Heen quite regularly, right?
"As I've said, balance isn't about strategies or counters, it's about probability and statistics." - paralleluniverse
cArn-
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Korea (South)824 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-05-12 12:09:52
May 12 2014 12:08 GMT
#4
Nah I'm pretty good friends with everyone on MVP, especially Heen who yes, I pub with pretty often.
I've hated March for a while for what he did but eventually I decided it's better to just let it go, holding a grudge won't accomplish anything but potentially make things awkward in some situations.
Twitter : http://twitter.com/CARNDARAK
Otolia
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
France5805 Posts
May 12 2014 12:46 GMT
#5
Man you can't catch a break

eSahara, no home ...

Here have a kitty :

+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]


I had the pleasure to talk to you a few years ago at the ESWC, I'm sad you couldn't get to where you want to. I'll keep on cheering for you though.
Hot_Bid
Profile Blog Joined October 2003
Braavos36383 Posts
May 12 2014 13:41 GMT
#6
I'd say this was probably a product of the NSL having rules where you can substitute a player into the roster just for playoffs, seems kinda inconsistent.
@Hot_Bid on Twitter - ESPORTS life since 2010 - http://i.imgur.com/U2psw.png
Heen
Profile Blog Joined November 2003
Korea (South)2178 Posts
May 12 2014 14:14 GMT
#7
yo~
What have you been up to lately?
Times are dark and the cancer is strong in Korean server.

Ever since the time I saw march play a KR ranked game and him being 5700 MMR teamed up with a 600 MMR player (yes, six hundred) I'm more scared than ever to play Korean server. Because as shocking as that was, it's an accurate reflection of what Korean games are.
('''(G_G/'''')
cArn-
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Korea (South)824 Posts
May 12 2014 15:26 GMT
#8
On May 12 2014 23:14 Heen wrote:
yo~
What have you been up to lately?
Times are dark and the cancer is strong in Korean server.

Ever since the time I saw march play a KR ranked game and him being 5700 MMR teamed up with a 600 MMR player (yes, six hundred) I'm more scared than ever to play Korean server. Because as shocking as that was, it's an accurate reflection of what Korean games are.


Man I've tried Korean ranked and I've seen horrible things in this 2k MMR infested hell but nothing like 600 MMR wtf, didn't think it was even possible.

Couldn't find a good team to play this season (none are left) so I accepted some gig over the last 3 weeks. I've been away from home for all this time so I couldn't dota, sorry I've left the cancer police hanging, I will be back this week to cure some of the plague that have spread during my absence.
Twitter : http://twitter.com/CARNDARAK
Heyoka
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Katowice25012 Posts
May 12 2014 18:40 GMT
#9
HotBid is right those rules are very strange and its unfortunate for you that it happened to play out that way
@RealHeyoka | ESL / DreamHack StarCraft Lead
NeThZOR
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
South Africa7387 Posts
May 12 2014 19:08 GMT
#10
Best of luck to you cArn
SuperNova - 2015 | SKT1 fan for years | Dear, FlaSh, PartinG, Soulkey, Naniwa
TBone-
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States2309 Posts
May 12 2014 20:59 GMT
#11
Damn that sucks, hope they change that rule in the future.
Eve online FC, lover of all competition
drsnuggles
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Korea (South)362 Posts
May 13 2014 04:07 GMT
#12
4200-4500 player here, Korean server is basically unplayable since there aren't many people higher than 3.5k who actually queue on the Korean server. SEA is even worse IMO, in the 20-30 games I've played there...so much flaming and weird spamming, although the ping isn't too bad..a little bit better than US West.

Best server to play on for ranked pubs seems to be Chinese server, since they play really tryhard most of the time, even though most of the picks are random for some reason ^^

If you need a support/offlaner for some party games / qualifiers as stand-in, PM me ^^
plasmidghost
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
Belgium16168 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-05-13 05:47:02
May 13 2014 04:58 GMT
#13
That reminds me of when Homme, the top laner for the MVP Ozone League of Legends team, got dropped right before the world championships and replaced with Looper. They ended up falling in groups, which game me some joy since I really enjoyed Homme.
What I'm trying to say is that I hope you can win a championship
Yugoslavia will always live on in my heart
samagantha
Profile Joined May 2014
30 Posts
May 13 2014 05:24 GMT
#14
Solara removed me from his friend list, what a dick.
Caladbolg
Profile Joined March 2011
2855 Posts
May 13 2014 07:25 GMT
#15
Dayuuuum. Demon the Teambreaker.
"I don't like the word prodigy at all. To me prodigy sounds like a person who was 'gifted' all these things rather than a person who earned all these talents by hard training... I must train harder to reach my goal." - Flash
aike
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States1629 Posts
May 13 2014 12:40 GMT
#16
On May 13 2014 16:25 Caladbolg wrote:
Dayuuuum. Demon the Teambreaker.

Haha I wouldn't blame demon at all for this. He was asked to play for the team and it was a good opportunity for him at the time (having just been dropped from EG)

The "bad guy" here was definitely just March
Wahaha
Caladbolg
Profile Joined March 2011
2855 Posts
May 14 2014 03:30 GMT
#17
On May 13 2014 21:40 aike wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 13 2014 16:25 Caladbolg wrote:
Dayuuuum. Demon the Teambreaker.

Haha I wouldn't blame demon at all for this. He was asked to play for the team and it was a good opportunity for him at the time (having just been dropped from EG)

The "bad guy" here was definitely just March


Yeah Demon isn't the bad guy but just by being who he is (a really good player, and a God in Korea), he made March unlikeable! And Carn sad
"I don't like the word prodigy at all. To me prodigy sounds like a person who was 'gifted' all these things rather than a person who earned all these talents by hard training... I must train harder to reach my goal." - Flash
Forgottenfrog
Profile Blog Joined September 2004
United States1268 Posts
May 14 2014 18:20 GMT
#18
The rules are pretty stupid that you can substitute anybody for the playoff. You can't blame demon for this and even though March made a dick move, he did it so that his team had the best chance to win.
evilfatsh1t
Profile Joined October 2010
Australia8771 Posts
May 15 2014 08:15 GMT
#19
how can you mention qo as one of the "best mids" in korea and not mention ksh lol
cArn-
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Korea (South)824 Posts
May 15 2014 11:21 GMT
#20
On May 15 2014 17:15 evilfatsh1t wrote:
how can you mention qo as one of the "best mids" in korea and not mention ksh lol


ksH wasn't playing mid at that time but carry, so back then I didn't get to vs him outside of some pubs.

But yeah.. That NSL ruling (which is still not fixed in current korean tournaments) is the biggest problem.
Twitter : http://twitter.com/CARNDARAK
haduken
Profile Blog Joined April 2003
Australia8267 Posts
May 18 2014 06:00 GMT
#21
Seems like the Koreans really favour either big names or Korean players.
Rillanon.au
Normal
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
BSL 21
20:00
RO16: Group B
Hawk vs Kyrie
spx vs Cross
ZZZero.O295
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
elazer 291
JuggernautJason136
PiGStarcraft0
StarCraft: Brood War
Calm 4259
Shuttle 554
ZZZero.O 295
Dewaltoss 86
hero 58
Mong 38
Dota 2
syndereN612
Other Games
Grubby7296
B2W.Neo491
ArmadaUGS133
Maynarde14
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick3931
EGCTV1471
BasetradeTV93
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 20 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• StrangeGG 59
• HeavenSC 57
• davetesta2
• Kozan
• Migwel
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• sooper7s
• intothetv
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
StarCraft: Brood War
• Airneanach20
• Pr0nogo 1
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota21147
• Ler121
Other Games
• imaqtpie1941
• WagamamaTV400
• Shiphtur300
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
10h 44m
Wardi Open
13h 44m
Monday Night Weeklies
18h 44m
StarCraft2.fi
18h 44m
Replay Cast
1d 1h
Wardi Open
1d 13h
StarCraft2.fi
1d 18h
PiGosaur Monday
2 days
Wardi Open
2 days
StarCraft2.fi
2 days
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
3 days
The PondCast
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Korean StarCraft League
5 days
CranKy Ducklings
5 days
SC Evo League
5 days
BSL 21
5 days
Sziky vs OyAji
Gypsy vs eOnzErG
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
BSL 21
6 days
Bonyth vs StRyKeR
Tarson vs Dandy
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-11-28
RSL Revival: Season 3
Eternal Conflict S1

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
YSL S2
BSL Season 21
CSCL: Masked Kings S3
Slon Tour Season 2
META Madness #9
Light HT
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2

Upcoming

BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
HSC XXVIII
RSL Offline Finals
WardiTV 2025
Kuram Kup
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026: Closed Qualifier
eXTREMESLAND 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.