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Hitler - Page 5

Blogs > ninazerg
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MoltkeWarding
Profile Joined November 2003
5195 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-01-05 11:06:26
January 05 2014 10:54 GMT
#81
The only references I made to the Hossbach Protocol were mentioning Hitler's original interest in Britain as a potential ally, and his intention to engage Europe in war. 


Hossbach identifies Britain as a potential enemy, albeit a hesitant one, given the distraction caused by the vulnerability of her global and colonial cleavages.

In general, the Hossbach Programme raises several interesting questions. Far from elucidating the nature of Hitler's political programme, it actually asks numerous questions about it:

The Hossbach Memorandum was seized upon by allied prosecutors in Nuremberg to indict several participants of the meeting of conspiracy to commit aggressive war, but the actual “conspiracy,” if it can be called that, was exceedingly vague. For one thing, it only identifies and analyses one real target: Czechoslovakia.

Hitler refers to a general need to solve Germany's Lebensraum problem, the ideal period for settling this is in the 1943-1945 timeframe, yet the main bent of his focus is on Czechoslovakia/Austria, with France as the predominant military factor. As is clear in the memorandum, the acquisition of Czechoslovakia and Austria was desirable for military-strategic reasons, rather than purposes of colonisation. Most notable, apart from one sideline reference to Russia, barely any mention is made of the Soviet Union in the memorandum, always taken to be the presumed target of German expansionism. The silence on Russia from Hitler's side, not only in Hossbach, but in the entire period of 1937-1939 is one of the biggest question marks over the scale of German diplomacy during the period. Similarly, during the Munich crisis, Hitler's directives did not factor in Russia at all. This is the Russian conundrum, and desperately requires more answers than most are wont to think.

The second point that needs to be made about the Hossbach memorandum is that it is not an active, but a passive plan. Contrary to traditional thought, it is not a fixed timetable for aggressive war, but a plan for exploiting discrete contingent events. That no mention was made of an attack on either Poland or the Soviet Union, reveals its departure from the actual course of history. The incongruity between the Hossbach prognosis and actual historical events, have excited certain historians to project certain meanings unto it which it does not possess by a naked reading of the memo.

People need to remember that diplomacy is a game of positioning and maneouvre. Hitler was looking at and reacting to situations as they came, as much as the leaders of any other country in Europe.
Monsen
Profile Joined December 2002
Germany2548 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-01-05 11:22:29
January 05 2014 11:10 GMT
#82
Interesting read, thanks for putting it together Moltke.

On January 05 2014 19:54 MoltkeWarding wrote:
Show nested quote +
The only references I made to the Hossbach Protocol were mentioning Hitler's original interest in Britain as a potential ally, and his intention to engage Europe in war. 


Hossbach identifies Britain as a potential enemy, albeit a hesitant one, given the distraction caused by the vulnerability of her global and colonial cleavages.

In general, the Hossbach Programme raises several interesting questions. Far from elucidating the nature of Hitler's political programme, it actually asks numerous questions about it:

The Hossbach Memorandum was seized upon by allied prosecutors in Nuremberg to indict several participants of the meeting of conspiracy to commit aggressive war, but the actual “conspiracy,” if it can be called that, was exceedingly vague. For one thing, it only identifies and analyses one real target: Czechoslovakia.

Hitler refers to a general need to solve Germany's Lebensraum problem, the ideal period for settling this is in the 1943-1945 timeframe, yet the main bent of his focus is on Czechoslovakia/Austria, with France as the predominant military factor. As is clear in the memorandum, the acquisition of Czechoslovakia and Austria was desirable for military-strategic reasons, rather than purposes of colonisation. Most notable, apart from one sideline reference to Russia, barely any mention is made of the Soviet Union in the memorandum, always taken to be the presumed target of German expansionism. The silence on Russia from Hitler's side, not only in Hossbach, but in the entire period of 1937-1939 is one of the biggest question marks over the scale of German diplomacy during the period. Similarly, during the Munich crisis, Hitler's directives did not factor in Russia at all. This is the Russian conundrum, and desperately requires more answers than most are wont to think.

The second point that needs to be made about the Hossbach memorandum is that it is not an active, but a passive plan. Contrary to traditional thought, it is not a fixed timetable for aggressive war, but a plan for exploiting discrete contingent events. That no mention was made of an attack on either Poland or the Soviet Union, reveals its departure from the actual course of history. The incongruity between the Hossbach prognosis and actual historical events, have excited certain historians to project certain meanings unto it which it does not possess by a naked reading of the memo.

People need to remember that diplomacy is a game of positioning and maneouvre. Hitler was looking at and reacting to situations as they came, as much as the leaders of any other country in Europe.


Would it be fair to say then, that contrary to the concept of the good old evil masterplan for world domination (insert manic laughter here) Hitler was just as surprised as the rest of the world by "his" diplomatic and military successes?
I know that the German High command was very sceptical when it came to the feasibility of Hitlers war goals and only after Frances defeat bought into the whole German Invincibility hype.
11 years and counting- TL #680
MoltkeWarding
Profile Joined November 2003
5195 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-01-05 12:51:52
January 05 2014 12:46 GMT
#83
I find it difficult to believe that anyone thinks that Hitler actively sought World Domination in this day and age, but apparently the Stufenplan hypothesis is still around, with the main point was that Hitler viewed the Western war as a sideshow for his Eastern ambitions, which was always a fixed part of his global plan. I am able to find surprisingly little documentary or anecdotal evidence to support this hypothesis.

It's reasonable to believe that Hitler intended to take calculated risks to bring his desired domination of Central-Eastern Europe about, including aggressive military conflict at some point in the future, however his implementation had always been situational and flexible. One example was the Anschluss with Austria, in which Hitler had merely intended to support the Nazi elements to power. However, On March 12 Hitler spontaneously changed his mind and declared the Anschluss, due to the political successes paved by Goering's actions.

I think Hitler's general strategic concept was more or less evolutionary, but I would not go as far as AJP Taylor in characterising the Second World War as the result of a colossal political blunder. Hitler did not want the Second World War, but accepted a Second World War as a likely consequence of his ambitious foreign policy. And Hitler's view by 1937 was that, if the war must come, it would be to Germany's advantage for it to occur rather sooner than later.
ETisME
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
12686 Posts
January 05 2014 18:05 GMT
#84
I know this blog is about Hitler but here's some opinion from an Asian.

in Asia, we consider WW2 japan to be way worse than nazi germany.

Japan believed that every country that is weaker than theirs is theirs to take and control and the humans were some sub-humans.
Japan was basically pushing it to see how far they can go.
Japan just wanted to invade.

And Nanking Massacre was pretty insane.
The whole thing, other than the blood lust such as race to kill 100 people first, it was to serve as a warning to every city who tries to oppose the Japanese army, they will do the same to all.

What's worse, even till this day, some big political figures still won't accept all the evidence.

Reason is, they don't think they have lose to China, they just lost to the US.

And right now the nationalism political party is going strong in Japan, god knows what will happen next
其疾如风,其徐如林,侵掠如火,不动如山,难知如阴,动如雷震。
ninazerg
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States7291 Posts
January 05 2014 19:33 GMT
#85
On January 04 2014 21:22 enord wrote:
haw haw yew stewpid amaricawnnnn

I double posted because i knew you would ban me from your blog which confirms my initial hypothesis that you are too arrogant to step up to my level you little child, you little baby who was bread for intelectual weaknessesness.

i find your conductiveness to be the essence of delusionification and you are a fool to think you can simply ban those who speak out against such childishness, laziness, trollishness, depravity, and rampant stupidity. your op is simply a pack of lies as part of a jewish conspireacy

allow me to be correcting the following item:

Show nested quote +


Adolf Hitler (Born 1889, April 20th) is widely considered to be the most evil man to have ever lived.


By whom? you do not cite your sources but simply make claims that are ridiculousicity

Show nested quote +

leading many people to question whether or not Hitler was gay, religious, had only one testicle, was part of the occult, or even Jewish


nobody has yet to claim such things seriously and you are quite egomaniacal to claim such nonsense and post such trash on the internet

Show nested quote +

Of course, when one starts learning about history, one of the first things you learn in America is: "Hitler was bad, and heroic Americans won the war." and later we learn that the Russians may have also had a hand in winning the war.


this is so biased that i cannot believe your impudent arroganceness. this war was won by all countries and peoples not just america so you are simplishly wrong in this regard.

Show nested quote +

But why was there a war in the first place? Most historians typically go back to unresolved issues and vendettas left over from World War I, but if that is the case, how did Japan and Italy (who fought for the Allies in WWI) become allied with Germany?


if you actually were not lazy you would know that the triple alliance preworld war 1 was germany, austria-hungary and italy and that japan was hungry for the french territories in eastern asia which is why japan allianced with germany before ww2.

Show nested quote +

France and Britain allowed the Germans to continue building up their military forces as what I believe was a fear of Soviet expansionism. Although Germany and France were bitter enemies, even in peace, Hitler maintained a good relationship with Britain's Prime Minister, and hoped to build a Anglo-German alliance against the Soviets, but such an alliance never materialized. The world's opinion quickly began to turn against the Axis Powers during the 1930s as each Germany, Italy and Japan began engaging in aggressive military conflicts and annexations with their neighbors, while the Soviet Union remained largely docile.


good relationship with uk prime minister? i think not, hitler despised him personally and they only worked wel together in public so this is some half truth you dreamed up or what? france and britain could care less about japan at this time and it was america who was to blaming japan for aggressionness in east asia.

Show nested quote +

This was called a "fasces", which was the Roman symbol for unity.


haha good joke my friend, the fasces was not invented by the romans empire as you claim, but archeaological findings show that the fasces existed in minoan culture well before the invention of the city of rome. i cannot imagine what they teach in american schools at this point.

Show nested quote +

The word "Fascism" comes from this symbol, but this terminology has decidedly taken a very negative connotation, and is often used to describe a nationalistic dictatorship. A large part of Hitler's power came from the fact that Germany was unified against what they saw as threats from Communism and the French.


i am now convinced that you are writing a comedy blog but with quite sick humour. fascism is not "unity" fascism is a totalitarianist authoritarian state that promotes the mass mobilisation of the people to nationalism. germany's biggest threat was not from the french but from the immensive naval power of the britain. do you forget that ribbontrop signed a deal of non-aggression with the su or are you just lazy?

Show nested quote +

The Nazi Party drew the narrative that the Weimar Republic government as weak and indecisive, and Hitler referred to them as "cowards" and "treasonous" for giving into the demands of the French government.


this bias is truly trollful. the german republik was strong until the market crash on black friday and it was not just france that made the treaty of versailles but also the us and uk. why do you blame france only? please be more less provokative.

Show nested quote +

I need to mention, for the sake of my own sanity, that after Hitler's rise to power, the Nazi Party nationalized many large industries, so I guess he's a commie after all, and if this section offended you in any way, please don't hesitate to suck a dick.


i will perform no such act of fellatio to verify your ego but there was no nationalisation of the grand industries of germany, and this appears to be simply made-up from nothing. hitler also was not a communist, another blatant fabrication.

Show nested quote +

Although Francis Galton is often credited with being the originator of modern eugenics


the idea of eugenicism trends back to the times of ancient minoans and nobody credits francis galton with eugencism except for christianists who cite that galton was the cousin of darwin and wish to paint him as an evil man.

Show nested quote +

Hitler adopted the Nazi Party's philosophy that blue-eyed, blonde-haired Nordic peoples were the ideal stock, and that Jews, Slavs, Arabs, Romani, Blacks, and so on, were all inferior to Nordic people.


how do you construct such fairy tales? please i would like to know, because most german people have brown hair even hitler himself. he believed in the superiority of white german people, not blond or blue eyed peoples. please do not post such erroneousness.

Show nested quote +

Was Hitler a Secret Jew?


no

Show nested quote +


+ Show Spoiler +

[image loading]

There, I got you the black-box version that doesn't show the nipples or buttocks, because if there's anything worse than Hitler, it's showing human nudity.



it is quite obvious to me that this is the work of photoshop and very poor research by yourself. how you can justify your credibility after showing such things is beyond explaination.

Show nested quote +

However, Hitler was not religious or non-religious in a fundamental sense of these words.


hitler was confirmed catholic

Show nested quote +


So is history being written by the victors, or was Hitler really that bad?


yes how can you even ask such a thing?

i would say more but judging by your arrogant banning and delusional attitude here and other places on tl, it is clear that me responding further would be a waste of ▲▲▲▲▲▲▲▲▲▲▲▲▲▲▲▲▲▲▲▲▲



GUYS THE TRIANGLES NEED TO STOP. THE TRIANGLES NEED TO STOP.
"If two pregnant women get into a fist fight, it's like a mecha-battle between two unborn babies." - Fyodor Dostoevsky
Golgotha
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Korea (South)8418 Posts
January 06 2014 06:54 GMT
#86
On January 05 2014 03:17 Monsen wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 05 2014 03:05 Golgotha wrote:
On January 04 2014 18:10 REDBLUEGREEN wrote:
On January 04 2014 13:15 Golgotha wrote:
On January 04 2014 07:31 Cuh wrote:
I always wonder if Hitler would of won and conquered the entire world, where would the human race be at in terms of technological progression. I mean if he killed out so many people there would prolly be less dependcy to support poverty and hunger around the world. And that many less wars would be fought throughout history? Just seems like there would be alot more unity and in turn more prosperity


Wow, I am speechless. I never knew this level of intelligence even existed. In what crazy scenario in your head would a conquered nation (in this case, the whole fucking world) brought to it's knees by an iron fist (Nazi Germany), ever submit quietly and live peacefully? Furthermore, what nation would simply submit and live in unity with a regime that incorporates genocide on an institutional level? Hitler would have never conquered the WHOLE world, but let's say he did, the "fires" that erupt post-war would consume him long after his afterlife in Hell. Just look at what happened in France and Poland. Freedom fighters rose up and continued the war even after Hitler's victories in France and Poland.

Ummm...Pax Romana, Pax Britannica, Pax Mongolica etc?
There are many examples where large empires did indeed lead to less internal wars then previously existed in the conquered areas. Cultural, commercial and scientific exchange also flourished and lead to economic growth.

Or how about the USA? 500 subjugated indian nations, occurrences of genocide, systematic destruction of culture and language, countless broken treaties (some of which are legal to this day and still not honored) and yet there is internal peace now and it has become the richest country on earth.

Could this have happened with Nazi Germany? No, that's why it is a hypothetical question.
Is the idea so absurd that you need to insult his intelligence? No.


Rofl. Yeah you are right. The Gauls just picked flowers after Julius enslaved their women and sons. No wonder the Romans held that swath of territory.

"Could this have happened with Nazi Germany? No..." - Are you serious? So you agree with me and I answered his question that specifically pertains to Nazi Germany, but you find his thinking rational? Look, I'm just trying to set him straight since he seems to believe that there would have been unity and peace in concentration camp happy Germany. Yeah, I think that is absurd. Highly.


That's not what you said though. If we ignore the shitty way you started your post with (opening insult always a pro move) we find that you were talking about a general scenario in which a conquered nation might or might not "submit". He pointed out several historic occasions where arguably conquest somewhat improved stability in response.
Also there have been plenty of occasions where conquered people simply assimilated into the conquering nation. Does this apply to WW2 and Nazi Germany? Of course not. Is the notion of a conquering nation improving stability by force always ridiculous? Of course not. You need to get of your high horse.


Fine. I'm off my high horse, my apologies. But I do not think what I told him is incorrect or far off. He talked about a Nazi World scenario so I gave him a Nazi World scenario.
Jae Zedong
Profile Joined September 2016
407 Posts
March 30 2017 17:08 GMT
#87
Man, MoltkeWarding just gave the best breakdown of Hitler I have ever seen and noone even acknowledges it. For shame!

Thanks MoltkeWarding.
Tyrant.
Skynx
Profile Blog Joined January 2013
Turkey7150 Posts
March 31 2017 20:45 GMT
#88
All i know about Hitler is that he invented the nazi mods.
"When seagulls follow the troller, it is because they think sardines will be thrown into the sea. Thank you very much" - King Cantona | STX 4 eva
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