On October 31 2013 12:30 Thereisnosaurus wrote: sometimes I don't get people. Then again I've never really understood monogamy. My girlfriend(s- on occassion) can jump whosoever's bones they wish, and I can do likewise. I only expect them not to lie about it, nor put my sexual health at risk.
Especially before the age of 30 no single person is capable of sustaining the need for intimacy of any other for any meaningful length of time. People who try tend to end up emotionally scarred or stunted, either from grinding their face against an awkward relationship they feel ethically compelled into remaining in or from massive guilt when they naturally fail at that expectation.
The only truly healthy and confident woman I know is getting married to her partner of like five years soon, in which time she's slept with a dozen or more other guys, including me. I am overjoyed for them, as they are a beautiful couple, and her partner is completely happy for her to spread her attentions around, even after the ceremony. This, more than anything else, has taught me that 'cheating' is in the same category of social ills as 'cooties'. It's an excuse for people to feel angry and betrayed, to ostracise and isolate rather than discuss and accept.
Two things.
First, there are two groups of people here. There is a group of people that don't care if their SO's sleep around etc. - we'll call them group A. Yay for them. This group will be happy dating each other. The second group is people that do not want their SO's sleeping around - group B. Yay for them, they should also stay within their group. Different value systems that clearly do not belong together.
Second: here you are, clearly a member of group A, coming into a discussion clearly about group B people and saying that group B people are all emotionally stunted and broken. That's an extremely ignorant and belligerent statement. Do some people from group B stupidly date group A people? Yup. Does that mean every single person in group B is an emotionally helpless child? No.
If someone is "grinding their face against an awkward relationship", they should end the relationship. Pretty simple shit. Group A or B doesn't matter. When a group B person ends a relationship, they free themselves from certain obligations based on mutual respect (that you wouldn't understand as a group A member) and are thus free to fuck anyone they please or initiate another relationship and so on.
Your anecdote of the "one truly healthy" woman is you trying to imply something insulting to literally every group B woman in existence and neither proves nor demonstrates anything of substance.
You are also trying your best to say that the feeling someone gets when they've been cheated on (in a group B relationship) is just silly and/or is made up entirely by "society" or "the man" or some other nebulous source of artificial creation. The fact is that those feelings are real and legitimate and based on concepts which you simply wouldn't understand (as a group A member). Your attitude of "if I don't feel it, it isn't real" reveals more of a shortcoming in your emotional intelligence rather than that of the group you are trying to ridicule.
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As far as the topic, if you're (not directed at anyone, just a nebulous "you") in a relationship where someone cheated on you - get out. There's a lot that can be discussed about this, but the tldr is "get out". If you're in a relationship where you're constantly worried about your SO cheating, just drop it. If you can't talk to your SO directly and maturely about such subjects - if you can't voice concerns that affect your well-being in the relationship - get out and find someone more mature. Life is just too short to deal with "adults" who haven't grown up yet. It's too short to deal with BS and assumptions and subtle hinting.
I had two relationships that kinda related to cheating. One is that I was already in a relationship but it just didn't feel right and eventually I found another girl and after a month, I decided to break up with my gf to make myself single for the other girl.
Another is that I met up with a long time crush who I haven't seen her for years. Then she told me she is in this really sad relationship (basically she got dumped by her bf who always cheated on her and so now this bf of hers was rich and bought her nice things, and they are about to get married) so as a good friend I advised her to break up with this bf if she doesn't like him (and especially knowing that she was also dating lots of other guys)
I think the most important is to know what you really want and if you are willing to go for it with the cost that comes with it. For example, my 1st case, I had to break up with my GF who loved me very much and we had a healthy relationship (almost never argued much, I would travel 4 hours to visit her) for 3 years.
I've been on both sides of the coin, they both suck. When you're the cheater, you can at least prepare yourself for what's going to happen when you inevitably tell her (if you don't, she'll find out eventually anyways). When you get cheated on, you get fucking blindsided and start to question yourself.
If you're going to cheat, get it out of the way ASAP so you can realize how shitty it is and don't do it again.
On October 31 2013 12:30 Thereisnosaurus wrote: Especially before the age of 30 no single person is capable of sustaining the need for intimacy of any other for any meaningful length of time. People who try tend to end up emotionally scarred or stunted, either from grinding their face against an awkward relationship they feel ethically compelled into remaining in or from massive guilt when they naturally fail at that expectation.
Or you simply find someone who you fit with early and it turns out to not be a problem. I met my wife when I was 21. Married her at 26. Never cheated on her and the relationship has never been awkward. It's not as big of a deal as you're making it out to be, there simply are people who don't need to have sex with different people constantly to feel good about themselves and who don't see the big sacrifice in being with one person who they love and feel comfortable with.
That said, during those years, we've been in a long distance relationship for significant time periods (that's what happens when you fall in love with someone from a country on the other side of the world), so I would accept that I'm a slightly special case. I still think you're generalizing massively though.
On October 31 2013 08:36 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: I've never been in a relationship with cheating
I really, really hate when people say stupid things like this.
Do you honestly think it's possible for anyone to know without a shadow of a doubt that they've never been cheated on? Unless you are spying on your significant other 24/7 then there's no possible way you can say you've never been cheated on.
On October 31 2013 08:36 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: I've never been in a relationship with cheating
I really, really hate when people say stupid things like this.
Do you honestly think it's possible for anyone to know without a shadow of a doubt that they've never been cheated on? Unless you are spying on your significant other 24/7 then there's no possible way you can say you've never been cheated on.
What you meant to say was "to my knowledge".
Okay. So what? The general discussion is about how you deal with cheating on your significant other or how you deal with being cheated on (even hypothetically). So for all practical purposes, what I said (that I've never experienced cheating or being cheated on) has the same level of experience as if I were actually omniscient and magically knew for a fact that my girlfriend has never cheated on me. I'm still an outsider looking in on couples who have admitted to cheating, and your correction (while technically true) detracts from the entire purpose of my conversation with others.
But I appreciate you taking part of one of my sentences out of context just to call it stupid.
On October 31 2013 08:36 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: I've never been in a relationship with cheating
I really, really hate when people say stupid things like this.
Do you honestly think it's possible for anyone to know without a shadow of a doubt that they've never been cheated on? Unless you are spying on your significant other 24/7 then there's no possible way you can say you've never been cheated on.
What you meant to say was "to my knowledge".
Maybe he used the smell test, it is very reliable. Think of the opposite of this.
It's obviously easier to be the cheater. The cheater always gains and only the cheated loses. Almost everyone has thoughts of cheating and feelings of lust and attraction towards others even when in a committed relationship. Being cheated on sucks because the person cheated on had enough willpower, loyalty and trust to not cheat while the other did not. The person who cheats is the weaker person or just doesn't really care and respect their SO enough in which case the relationship has problems anyways. Either both parties should be allowed to cheat or no one should, and if only one person respects that decision it isn't fair to the other.
On November 01 2013 04:11 Xyik wrote: It's obviously easier to be the cheater. The cheater always gains and only the cheated loses. Almost everyone has thoughts of cheating and feelings of lust and attraction towards others even when in a committed relationship. Being cheated on sucks because the person cheated on had enough willpower, loyalty and trust to not cheat while the other did not. The person who cheats is the weaker person or just doesn't really care and respect their SO enough in which case the relationship has problems anyways. Either both parties should be allowed to cheat or no one should, and if only one person respects that decision it isn't fair to the other.
He gains only in terms of the specific physical relationship that he had when he cheated.
He potentially loses his significant other and the self-respect of his friends, family, and any future significant others.
That's a much bigger string of potential losses in my book.
I'd rather cheat than be cheated on. I can deal better with my own failures than with somebody else. The other people are harder to predict and harder to judge.
Meanwhile I can fix myself. And if the relationship falls apart, then it's my fault, my doing. I hate not having control. And I can't really control how I would feel if I were cheated on.
I just feel like personally, it would be easier for me and I feel like most people would come to that conclusion if they were honest, although possibly for different reasons... It sounds like a shitty thing to say but I would never cheat on someone I care about anyway. If I did, it would be such a monumental fuck up that I would beat myself up over it.
Over the long run, the guilt could make it worse to be the cheater.
Having been in both positions (although if I am honest I didn't physically cheat) it is far worse in my opinion to be the one cheating. The guilt has followed me around for years. I didn't touch anyone else, but I emotionally entrusted myself to another person and that ended my relationship. As a result I am somewhat emotionally broken and don't trust myself to date again. And yes, I have been single for years now because of that.
But speaking of monogamy, is it really possible to be so utterly wrapped up in a partner that you don't desire another, ever? Regardless of whether or not you act on it, would it not be emotionally cheating to desire someone else? Even briefly?
On November 01 2013 04:37 draverjai wrote: Having been in both positions (although if I am honest I didn't physically cheat) it is far worse in my opinion to be the one cheating. The guilt has followed me around for years. I didn't touch anyone else, but I emotionally entrusted myself to another person and that ended my relationship. As a result I am somewhat emotionally broken and don't trust myself to date again. And yes, I have been single for years now because of that.
But speaking of monogamy, is it really possible to be so utterly wrapped up in a partner that you don't desire another, ever? Regardless of whether or not you act on it, would it not be emotionally cheating to desire someone else? Even briefly?
Well I think thought-crimes are somewhat silly, and there's a difference between being attracted to someone and actually acting on that attraction. If you can keep your interest or lust in check and not actually pursue another person, then I think you can recognize the difference between being comfortable with thinking another person is cute or attractive, and being paranoid that you're truly cheating on your significant other. Quite frankly, there are thousands of people in the population who are attractive by any person's standards, and this may or may not include pornographic actors or close friends. What matters (to me, at least, and other people have different standards for cheating or anything else intimate, and that's okay), is that you can still stay committed to your significant other, even if you're acknowledging that other people are attractive too. Some of the words and ideas are broadly defined (e.g., what does "commitment" or "cheating" truly mean), but that depends on your particular philosophy on the matter.
On November 01 2013 04:37 draverjai wrote: Having been in both positions (although if I am honest I didn't physically cheat) it is far worse in my opinion to be the one cheating. The guilt has followed me around for years. I didn't touch anyone else, but I emotionally entrusted myself to another person and that ended my relationship. As a result I am somewhat emotionally broken and don't trust myself to date again. And yes, I have been single for years now because of that.
But speaking of monogamy, is it really possible to be so utterly wrapped up in a partner that you don't desire another, ever? Regardless of whether or not you act on it, would it not be emotionally cheating to desire someone else? Even briefly?
Well I think thought-crimes are somewhat silly, and there's a difference between being attracted to someone and actually acting on that attraction. If you can keep your interest or lust in check and not actually pursue another person, then I think you can recognize the difference between being comfortable with thinking another person is cute or attractive, and being paranoid that you're truly cheating on your significant other. Quite frankly, there are thousands of people in the population who are attractive by any person's standards, and this may or may not include pornographic actors or close friends. What matters (to me, at least, and other people have different standards for cheating or anything else intimate, and that's okay), is that you can still stay committed to your significant other, even if you're acknowledging that other people are attractive too. Some of the words and ideas are broadly defined (e.g., what does "commitment" or "cheating" truly mean), but that depends on your particular philosophy on the matter.
You actually make so much sense I feel dumb. I think I should go to bed before I post something else silly. Thanks
On November 01 2013 04:37 draverjai wrote: Having been in both positions (although if I am honest I didn't physically cheat) it is far worse in my opinion to be the one cheating. The guilt has followed me around for years. I didn't touch anyone else, but I emotionally entrusted myself to another person and that ended my relationship. As a result I am somewhat emotionally broken and don't trust myself to date again. And yes, I have been single for years now because of that.
But speaking of monogamy, is it really possible to be so utterly wrapped up in a partner that you don't desire another, ever? Regardless of whether or not you act on it, would it not be emotionally cheating to desire someone else? Even briefly?
Well I think thought-crimes are somewhat silly, and there's a difference between being attracted to someone and actually acting on that attraction. If you can keep your interest or lust in check and not actually pursue another person, then I think you can recognize the difference between being comfortable with thinking another person is cute or attractive, and being paranoid that you're truly cheating on your significant other. Quite frankly, there are thousands of people in the population who are attractive by any person's standards, and this may or may not include pornographic actors or close friends. What matters (to me, at least, and other people have different standards for cheating or anything else intimate, and that's okay), is that you can still stay committed to your significant other, even if you're acknowledging that other people are attractive too. Some of the words and ideas are broadly defined (e.g., what does "commitment" or "cheating" truly mean), but that depends on your particular philosophy on the matter.
You actually make so much sense I feel dumb. I think I should go to bed before I post something else silly. Thanks
My pleasure
Also, if I may add something else: Go ahead and date again (if you want the companionship). The fact that you feel so guilty about your previous situation regarding emotional cheating shows that you're learning from your mistakes. You don't have to beat yourself up for the rest of your life; taking years off from the dating scene sounds like more than enough penance.
If you miss the intimacy and affection of being in a relationship, the butterflies and the raw passion, go out there and find yourself a partner
EPT
