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This is a heated issue, but please keep the debate civil.
Personal insult is not 'discussion' and will be moderated. -Pg 36 |
On August 16 2013 13:51 AnachronisticAnarchy wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2013 13:44 ptbl wrote:On August 16 2013 13:36 dcemuser wrote:On August 16 2013 13:35 ptbl wrote:
Take has the right to be angry. He is the "injured" party. It wasn't take who revealed the private conversations without the other parties consent nor notification. Irrelevant. She stepped on toes (while painting him as a good person), he stepped over the line. uhh, Genna exposed the fact that Liquid needed monetary support to send players to the ATC final. Take told Genna the information in confidence, but she revealed it without proper notification nor consent. So, what do you mean it made Take look good. Airing dirty laundry is never good. Take volunteered to pay thousands of dollars to help Axiom come to ATC.
No he didn't.
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On August 16 2013 13:51 Stress wrote:
I honestly didn't think anyone looked "bad" until Take made that comment about legal action. Both sides are to blame and Genna acknowledged that. The appropriate information should have been provided from the beginning by the management of the ATC and Genna should have made sure that all that information was received(tournament location, prize pool, travel stipends, etc..). The only thing that I could see as upsetting between the two parties is Genna posting a bunch of emails/chat logs. But, in my opinion, there wasn't anything controversial said/written/posted(except for the whole legal action thing).
That's also how I feel about it.
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On August 16 2013 13:50 TheButtonmen wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2013 13:49 pbjsandwich wrote:On August 16 2013 13:47 TheButtonmen wrote:On August 16 2013 13:46 pbjsandwich wrote:
Look, I know I'm on Takes side in this situation
but I absolutely love Genna and what she's done for this community. It just really pisses me off that people want to talk shit about Take over this
Arguably, Take has done a lot more for this scene Him doing things for the scene doesn't make him threatening to take people to court because he doesn't like their blog post acceptable. he runs a business on a thin margin of profit.... I think this is completely fair How does his profitability change the fact that he decided to threaten legal action over her blog post?
no
if you read my posts I think my best point is the fact that Axiom's oversight of who is paying for the travel is the biggest "fail" in this situation
that is a huge expense and the fact that she didn't realize that it was something that they would have to take care of until a week or 2 before is a huge fucking mistake
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On August 16 2013 13:52 pbjsandwich wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2013 13:50 TheButtonmen wrote:On August 16 2013 13:49 pbjsandwich wrote:On August 16 2013 13:47 TheButtonmen wrote:On August 16 2013 13:46 pbjsandwich wrote:
Look, I know I'm on Takes side in this situation
but I absolutely love Genna and what she's done for this community. It just really pisses me off that people want to talk shit about Take over this
Arguably, Take has done a lot more for this scene Him doing things for the scene doesn't make him threatening to take people to court because he doesn't like their blog post acceptable. he runs a business on a thin margin of profit.... I think this is completely fair How does his profitability change the fact that he decided to threaten legal action over her blog post? no if you read my posts I think my best point is the fact that Axiom's oversight of who is paying for the travel is the biggest "fail" in this situation that is a huge expense and the fact that she didn't realize that it was something that they would have to take care of until a week or 2 before is a huge fucking mistake
when emails aren't sent mistakes happen you know...
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On August 16 2013 13:52 Vindicare605 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2013 13:51 Stress wrote:
I honestly didn't think anyone looked "bad" until Take made that comment about legal action. Both sides are to blame and Genna acknowledged that. The appropriate information should have been provided from the beginning by the management of the ATC and Genna should have made sure that all that information was received(tournament location, prize pool, travel stipends, etc..). The only thing that I could see as upsetting between the two parties is Genna posting a bunch of emails/chat logs. But, in my opinion, there wasn't anything controversial said/written/posted(except for the whole legal action thing). That's also how I feel about it.
and this is why I feel like I have to make some posts defending take
because, yes, he did come off as a dick
But this is not complete unjustified at all. Yeah maybe if he just came at her with a simple "You shouldn't of done that" and then come with some kind of legal action if it was possible it would be different
but he was angry (understandably IMO) and decided to show it through a post
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On August 16 2013 13:50 pbjsandwich wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2013 13:47 LuckoftheIrish wrote:On August 16 2013 13:43 pbjsandwich wrote:On August 16 2013 13:38 LuckoftheIrish wrote:On August 16 2013 13:33 pbjsandwich wrote:On August 16 2013 13:31 LuckoftheIrish wrote:On August 16 2013 13:30 pbjsandwich wrote:
I think it's fair to think Take came off as a dick in this situation
but he is completely fair in being this angry too. Look the whole blog post previous to this Genna only took very partial blame for this while posting many paragraphs and reasoning on why it is Take's teams fault
Not knowing the details of travel expenses is a HUGE oversight and creating a blog post, essentially, damage controlling it would be extremely angering if I was take
It's not all completely her fault but the fact that she mad e apost with private messages to damage control her huge mistake justifies Take's anger IMO She definitely took only partial blame. That's true. She shouldn't take complete blame because it wasn't solely her fault. I do agree with that but to not get complete confirmation for the travel? That is the most expensive part and if you haven't figured that out until a week before the event? What are you doing???? WCS timing matters here. The travel for that probably wouldn't have been figured into budgets created at the beginning of the year. So there are a lot of unplanned expenses that swallow the entire budget. And from the other side, what kind of tournament doesn't say: hey, our LAN final is at this time and this is what we're willing to do for travel arrangements? Literally every tournament provides some sort of travel accommodation as part of the package. Why wouldn't you be clear and up-front about what that was? So it was bad communication and planning from both sides, and Genna acknowledged that. yes she acknowledged that but a majority of her previous blog post blames the Take team... like I said before, that's a ridiculous oversight for a team I think she did a tremendous job showing that TaKe and the ATC organizers did as much as they possibly could to help resolve the situation. She even specifically says TaKe puts on great events and that people should continue to follow and support them. Yes, that is what she tried to say with the commentary but look at the conclusion of it... look at the meat of the blog post It's really like saying "no offense" after saying something hella offensive IMO
I don't agree, but I see where you're coming from. You need to remember that originally she wasn't told there WAS an offline finals. Why would you worry about the cost of an online final?
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Canada16217 Posts
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On August 16 2013 13:53 sAsImre wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2013 13:52 pbjsandwich wrote:On August 16 2013 13:50 TheButtonmen wrote:On August 16 2013 13:49 pbjsandwich wrote:On August 16 2013 13:47 TheButtonmen wrote:On August 16 2013 13:46 pbjsandwich wrote:
Look, I know I'm on Takes side in this situation
but I absolutely love Genna and what she's done for this community. It just really pisses me off that people want to talk shit about Take over this
Arguably, Take has done a lot more for this scene Him doing things for the scene doesn't make him threatening to take people to court because he doesn't like their blog post acceptable. he runs a business on a thin margin of profit.... I think this is completely fair How does his profitability change the fact that he decided to threaten legal action over her blog post? no if you read my posts I think my best point is the fact that Axiom's oversight of who is paying for the travel is the biggest "fail" in this situation that is a huge expense and the fact that she didn't realize that it was something that they would have to take care of until a week or 2 before is a huge fucking mistake when emails aren't sent mistakes happen you know...
is it not a ridiculous oversight?
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On August 16 2013 13:52 TotalBiscuit wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2013 13:51 AnachronisticAnarchy wrote:On August 16 2013 13:44 ptbl wrote:On August 16 2013 13:36 dcemuser wrote:On August 16 2013 13:35 ptbl wrote:
Take has the right to be angry. He is the "injured" party. It wasn't take who revealed the private conversations without the other parties consent nor notification. Irrelevant. She stepped on toes (while painting him as a good person), he stepped over the line. uhh, Genna exposed the fact that Liquid needed monetary support to send players to the ATC final. Take told Genna the information in confidence, but she revealed it without proper notification nor consent. So, what do you mean it made Take look good. Airing dirty laundry is never good. Take volunteered to pay thousands of dollars to help Axiom come to ATC. No he didn't.
as they are public might aswell
Dennis : okay i see but lets be honest thier chances doing pretty okay at the finale are there if we cant find a deal at all it would be the worst solution right? the point is i dont have big budgets that i can pay from my own pocket 3-4-5 flights
Genna : Worst case scenario, we forfeit and Millenium takes our slot.
Dennis : but before a team is not coming i really wanna help and even willing to pay some of my money into it thats why i ask i just try to find options
Genna : I'll have to talk to John about it to see if we have anything leftover from our sponsor pool for the month.
Dennis : okay and i will talk to acer about it if they would cover another 1500+ i think i am willing to help to on top
i might misunderstand this, but this looks pretty clear for me, of course i havent been involved or anything in this thing, but it just looks like it.
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On August 16 2013 13:51 chaos021 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2013 13:44 pbjsandwich wrote:On August 16 2013 13:44 chaos021 wrote:On August 16 2013 13:36 theking1 wrote:+ Show Spoiler +
I do not think this is much of a surprise comming form the totalbiscuit-genna couple.They invested some money into sc2 but after failing to obtain big profits(and i am only quoting tb twitter right here) they sort of realize that esports is not exactly the thing that could bring in profits and they decide to slowly leave by throwing dirt at everyone that disagrees with them,This is happening in the context in which totalbiscuit is threatening to stop casting sc2 (like anyone forced him in the first place).
I find quite obnoxious that they are insulting Take who has provided the community with one of the best and most entertaining tournament s there is HSC which ran for 7 editions and made sc2 players look more human.Also take has been with sc2 from the very beggining.In terms of what the sc2 community is concerned I would much rateher prefer to have take and see the next HSCups than hear about totalbiscuit whinning and moaning all day long.
And this is another thing I disliked form the very first day about the totalbiscuit jenna-couple:the constant whinning and moaning.Everybody knows that in the esports industry you have to deal with unpleasant situations.LiquidNAzgul knows about this,alex garfield,sir scoots,day9 and countless other team owners and people involved know about this yet none of them moan and complain as much as totalbiscuit and genna.I mean literally you would think they are the only ones having issues and everyone else doesn't.Totalbiscuit is probably the only teamowner who constantly throws the 100k $ number on twitter to remind the community how much he invested.I never hear Nazgul say on twitter:"Man I invested probably a million dollars since bw in the sc scene you all should not say anything bad about me".Get over it.You are not more entitled than any other team owners who put money into the scen.If esports,and especially sc2 does not make you a profit then for gods sake move one.
I would not be surprised that in a couple of months after tb and genna decide to leave sc2 permanently they will write an essay on reddit simmilar to what destiny did when he switched to lol saying how bad sc2 is and how much the community sucks.On the long run tb will hurt the sc2 proscene more than they will help.
And the excuse about bashing is absolutely pathetic.All people in esports get ot deal with anonymus trolls.So what?Noone has quoted them as the reason for baciing off esports.And bashing Take out of all people is absolutely disgenuite
In conclusion:I understand that people can not make large amounts of money of sc2.But if you really wana quit the scen do not do it destiny style by throwing trash at everyhting.instead be more humble about it.Nobody blames you.
You are so full of shit that I can smell you halfway around the world. All they're trying to do is make the SC2 scene about good players instead of just names and brands. If you just want to run on about random bullshit, go find a bridge and stay under it. On August 16 2013 13:36 pbjsandwich wrote:On August 16 2013 13:34 NovemberstOrm wrote:On August 16 2013 13:33 skatblast wrote:
Dont make private conversations public, it cant be that hard to understand, sorry and goodbye. Goodluck She made the post to clear her teams name NO one except Take was hurt for whatever reason. He had no reason to be hurt. he most definitely does.... it's a private conversation. Imagine if you had a private conversation open for the public... it's really that simple A private conversation?? Why is everyone throwing this shit around like that matters? It's not as if they're signing non-disclosure agreements about any of this. They're talking about business over the internet and have no obligation to keep their mouths shut. Yea, it could be viewed as airing out some laundry. Even if in my opinion, said "laundry" was not dirty, they have their own right to do with it as they will so long as they haven't damaged other involved parties (as far as I know). As far as I can see, no one has been damaged. If he wants to be butthurt about it, that's his business. However, it being a private conversation means not a damn thing. i'm sorry you don't understand how a private conversation can be a sensitive issue.... Are you serious? That's all you have?
If there's any question as to the private nature of the conversation that was posted and whether or not it was sensitive enough to consider withholding than I would say there is even less certainty about the seriousness of Take's mention of legal action. It was very clearly an offhand comment. There is a very clear departure from what Take said and what actually serving someone is. Making it a big deal like it has been is incredibly immature.
I can't possibly see an offhand comment from Take being more serious than posting private chat logs discussing financials for multiple parties, some of whom are in no way involved with the ordeal.
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On August 16 2013 13:54 LuckoftheIrish wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2013 13:50 pbjsandwich wrote:On August 16 2013 13:47 LuckoftheIrish wrote:On August 16 2013 13:43 pbjsandwich wrote:On August 16 2013 13:38 LuckoftheIrish wrote:On August 16 2013 13:33 pbjsandwich wrote:On August 16 2013 13:31 LuckoftheIrish wrote:On August 16 2013 13:30 pbjsandwich wrote:
I think it's fair to think Take came off as a dick in this situation
but he is completely fair in being this angry too. Look the whole blog post previous to this Genna only took very partial blame for this while posting many paragraphs and reasoning on why it is Take's teams fault
Not knowing the details of travel expenses is a HUGE oversight and creating a blog post, essentially, damage controlling it would be extremely angering if I was take
It's not all completely her fault but the fact that she mad e apost with private messages to damage control her huge mistake justifies Take's anger IMO She definitely took only partial blame. That's true. She shouldn't take complete blame because it wasn't solely her fault. I do agree with that but to not get complete confirmation for the travel? That is the most expensive part and if you haven't figured that out until a week before the event? What are you doing???? WCS timing matters here. The travel for that probably wouldn't have been figured into budgets created at the beginning of the year. So there are a lot of unplanned expenses that swallow the entire budget. And from the other side, what kind of tournament doesn't say: hey, our LAN final is at this time and this is what we're willing to do for travel arrangements? Literally every tournament provides some sort of travel accommodation as part of the package. Why wouldn't you be clear and up-front about what that was? So it was bad communication and planning from both sides, and Genna acknowledged that. yes she acknowledged that but a majority of her previous blog post blames the Take team... like I said before, that's a ridiculous oversight for a team I think she did a tremendous job showing that TaKe and the ATC organizers did as much as they possibly could to help resolve the situation. She even specifically says TaKe puts on great events and that people should continue to follow and support them. Yes, that is what she tried to say with the commentary but look at the conclusion of it... look at the meat of the blog post It's really like saying "no offense" after saying something hella offensive IMO I don't agree, but I see where you're coming from.
yeah
I think it does come down to who you think should tak emore blame for the ATC debacle which I can respect both sides of
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On August 16 2013 13:52 steff wrote:Show nested quote +A ) Axiom for not performing due diligence in being aware of all of the parameters for an event they were involved in.
B ) TakeTV for not communicating clearly with teams.
C ) Acer for not providing enough sponsorship to support travel for the offline portion of ATC.
Take your pick, but consider this.
A ) Fairweather fans are best known by their lack of support during hard times. We appreciate our loyal fans and when we do compete, we do it for them.
B ) Organizations that put together good quality events in our community should not be taken for granted. The ATC finals should be great and hopefully you tune in.
C ) Acer had a clear contract with TakeTV You people who are agreeing with Genna Bain are agreeing with the sanctimonious manipulative ass that wrote the above. I mean REALLY, you either support us or you're a fairweather fan, again you're WITH US or AGAINST US, there is no room for questioning our decisions or anything else because if you do you're AGAINST US remember, you fairweather fan you.
Are you THAT bad at reading comprehension? Honest question because I totally offer tutoring in that subject.
Her A: is written with the implication that anyone that withdraws support for the entire team over this issue is being called a fairweather fan. Which actually is a pretty accurate description. It means absolutely nothing to anyone that is neutral in regards to Axiom.
She isn't saying "You're with us or against us" she's just saying, look yea we are partially to blame for this fucked up situation and if you are going to withdraw your support of us over this then that's fine with me.
Nowhere in there is she making the claim that you're making, you're simply interpreting it that way.
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On August 16 2013 13:53 sAsImre wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2013 13:52 pbjsandwich wrote:On August 16 2013 13:50 TheButtonmen wrote:On August 16 2013 13:49 pbjsandwich wrote:On August 16 2013 13:47 TheButtonmen wrote:On August 16 2013 13:46 pbjsandwich wrote:
Look, I know I'm on Takes side in this situation
but I absolutely love Genna and what she's done for this community. It just really pisses me off that people want to talk shit about Take over this
Arguably, Take has done a lot more for this scene Him doing things for the scene doesn't make him threatening to take people to court because he doesn't like their blog post acceptable. he runs a business on a thin margin of profit.... I think this is completely fair How does his profitability change the fact that he decided to threaten legal action over her blog post? no if you read my posts I think my best point is the fact that Axiom's oversight of who is paying for the travel is the biggest "fail" in this situation that is a huge expense and the fact that she didn't realize that it was something that they would have to take care of until a week or 2 before is a huge fucking mistake when emails aren't sent mistakes happen you know...
when you ASSUME...
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On August 16 2013 13:55 teddyoojo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2013 13:52 TotalBiscuit wrote:On August 16 2013 13:51 AnachronisticAnarchy wrote:On August 16 2013 13:44 ptbl wrote:On August 16 2013 13:36 dcemuser wrote:On August 16 2013 13:35 ptbl wrote:
Take has the right to be angry. He is the "injured" party. It wasn't take who revealed the private conversations without the other parties consent nor notification. Irrelevant. She stepped on toes (while painting him as a good person), he stepped over the line. uhh, Genna exposed the fact that Liquid needed monetary support to send players to the ATC final. Take told Genna the information in confidence, but she revealed it without proper notification nor consent. So, what do you mean it made Take look good. Airing dirty laundry is never good. Take volunteered to pay thousands of dollars to help Axiom come to ATC. No he didn't. as they are public might aswell Show nested quote +Dennis : okay i see but lets be honest thier chances doing pretty okay at the finale are there if we cant find a deal at all it would be the worst solution right? the point is i dont have big budgets that i can pay from my own pocket 3-4-5 flights
Genna : Worst case scenario, we forfeit and Millenium takes our slot.
Dennis : but before a team is not coming i really wanna help and even willing to pay some of my money into it thats why i ask i just try to find options
Genna : I'll have to talk to John about it to see if we have anything leftover from our sponsor pool for the month.
Dennis : okay and i will talk to acer about it if they would cover another 1500+ i think i am willing to help to on top
"If Acer will pay an additional fee I will try and help" is not the same thing.
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Guys, remember when that one girl posted Destiny's dick on reddit or something like that after she found out he was a douche bag from his skype chat? Pretty sure it's all fair game to release to public unless you've got some sort of non-disclosure agreement or whatever that is. Dicks included. (At least that scenario was much more humorous)
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On August 16 2013 13:55 pbjsandwich wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2013 13:53 sAsImre wrote:On August 16 2013 13:52 pbjsandwich wrote:On August 16 2013 13:50 TheButtonmen wrote:On August 16 2013 13:49 pbjsandwich wrote:On August 16 2013 13:47 TheButtonmen wrote:On August 16 2013 13:46 pbjsandwich wrote:
Look, I know I'm on Takes side in this situation
but I absolutely love Genna and what she's done for this community. It just really pisses me off that people want to talk shit about Take over this
Arguably, Take has done a lot more for this scene Him doing things for the scene doesn't make him threatening to take people to court because he doesn't like their blog post acceptable. he runs a business on a thin margin of profit.... I think this is completely fair How does his profitability change the fact that he decided to threaten legal action over her blog post? no if you read my posts I think my best point is the fact that Axiom's oversight of who is paying for the travel is the biggest "fail" in this situation that is a huge expense and the fact that she didn't realize that it was something that they would have to take care of until a week or 2 before is a huge fucking mistake when emails aren't sent mistakes happen you know... is it not a ridiculous oversight?
Still not understanding where the excuse for legal threats comes in?
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On August 16 2013 13:55 pbjsandwich wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2013 13:53 sAsImre wrote:On August 16 2013 13:52 pbjsandwich wrote:On August 16 2013 13:50 TheButtonmen wrote:On August 16 2013 13:49 pbjsandwich wrote:On August 16 2013 13:47 TheButtonmen wrote:On August 16 2013 13:46 pbjsandwich wrote:
Look, I know I'm on Takes side in this situation
but I absolutely love Genna and what she's done for this community. It just really pisses me off that people want to talk shit about Take over this
Arguably, Take has done a lot more for this scene Him doing things for the scene doesn't make him threatening to take people to court because he doesn't like their blog post acceptable. he runs a business on a thin margin of profit.... I think this is completely fair How does his profitability change the fact that he decided to threaten legal action over her blog post? no if you read my posts I think my best point is the fact that Axiom's oversight of who is paying for the travel is the biggest "fail" in this situation that is a huge expense and the fact that she didn't realize that it was something that they would have to take care of until a week or 2 before is a huge fucking mistake when emails aren't sent mistakes happen you know... is it not a ridiculous oversight?
no. because expecting ppl to come to korea for a ridiculous prizpool if you don't pay their expense is kinda stupid.
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On August 16 2013 13:52 TotalBiscuit wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2013 13:51 AnachronisticAnarchy wrote:On August 16 2013 13:44 ptbl wrote:On August 16 2013 13:36 dcemuser wrote:On August 16 2013 13:35 ptbl wrote:
Take has the right to be angry. He is the "injured" party. It wasn't take who revealed the private conversations without the other parties consent nor notification. Irrelevant. She stepped on toes (while painting him as a good person), he stepped over the line. uhh, Genna exposed the fact that Liquid needed monetary support to send players to the ATC final. Take told Genna the information in confidence, but she revealed it without proper notification nor consent. So, what do you mean it made Take look good. Airing dirty laundry is never good. Take volunteered to pay thousands of dollars to help Axiom come to ATC. No he didn't.
Wow, even with a top-percentile memory I still messed that up. Very sorry, dunno how that happened.
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On August 16 2013 13:52 steff wrote:Show nested quote +A ) Axiom for not performing due diligence in being aware of all of the parameters for an event they were involved in.
B ) TakeTV for not communicating clearly with teams.
C ) Acer for not providing enough sponsorship to support travel for the offline portion of ATC.
Take your pick, but consider this.
A ) Fairweather fans are best known by their lack of support during hard times. We appreciate our loyal fans and when we do compete, we do it for them.
B ) Organizations that put together good quality events in our community should not be taken for granted. The ATC finals should be great and hopefully you tune in.
C ) Acer had a clear contract with TakeTV You people who are agreeing with Genna Bain are agreeing with the sanctimonious manipulative ass that wrote the above. I mean REALLY, you either support us or you're a fairweather fan, again you're WITH US or AGAINST US, there is no room for questioning our decisions or anything else because if you do you're AGAINST US remember, you fairweather fan you.
Sounds a lot like Idra on RealTalk, thanks to my real fans!
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EPT
