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http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/03/health/suicide-rate-rises-sharply-in-us.html?smid=tw-share&_r=0
Mortality Weekly Report. In 2010 there were 33,687 deaths from motor vehicle crashes and 38,364 suicides.
Suicide has typically been viewed as a problem of teenagers and the elderly, and the surge in suicide rates among middle-aged Americans is surprising.
From 1999 to 2010, the suicide rate among Americans ages 35 to 64 rose by nearly 30 percent, to 17.6 deaths per 100,000 people, up from 13.7. Although suicide rates are growing among both middle-aged men and women, far more men take their own lives. The suicide rate for middle-aged men was 27.3 deaths per 100,000, while for women it was 8.1 deaths per 100,000.
The most pronounced increases were seen among men in their 50s, a group in which suicide rates jumped by nearly 50 percent, to about 30 per 100,000. For women, the largest increase was seen in those ages 60 to 64, among whom rates increased by nearly 60 percent, to 7.0 per 100,000.
Some of the comments in spoiler:
+ Show Spoiler +
Economic hopelessness. My brother committed suicide last July. He had just turned 60. He lost his IT job in the Great Recession in 2008. Despite hundreds of resumes being sent out, and a lifetime of IT experience, he got few interviews and no job offers. He spent down his 401(k) and when he died the only thing he owned was a beat-up car. We later found out he had a lot of credit card debt, with which he had tried to keep himself afloat. After four years of no job offers, unemployment running out, having no health insurance, etc., his dignity was shot. He had lost hope of ever working again. How I wish he had not committed suicide; how I would give anything and everything to have him back. I consider him one of the casualties of the Recession and when I read of the fat bonuses the banksters award themselves, I shake with rage that they have continued to prosper while people like my brother lost all hope and people like me lost a loved one.
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I don't dare think about it. I'm all my kids have (husband is dead, bless his memory). I have been called for many, many interviews-- my keying speed and experience look really good-- but I don't get even the courtesy of rejection letters. We have run through the college CDs and are living on my husband's 401(k), which makes us ineligible for SNAP or Medicaid, or maybe it's just my fault that I could not bear to fill out the applications which ask for your car's VIN and for copies of your bank statements and any cash in the house, etc. I know that safeguards are necessary to keep out the cheaters, but the process seemed too humiliating and I gave up. When the 401(k) money is gone, then I will have to try again. I don't know how to navigate "the system" and the other system that I thought I knew, where you demonstrated your skills, proved your work ethic, earned certificates and degrees, then applied and got hired-- that system is apparently gone. I do not know what we are going to do.
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Why is suicide usually looked upon as a desperate and forbidden act?
Can't we accept that in addition to poverty, loneliness, alienation, ill health life in world that is sometimes personally pointless means that death is a relief?
I believe the right to die, in a time and place (and wishfully peacefully without violence) is a basic human right.
We seem so terribly afraid of it.
We look for "factors" that contribute....
One would have to be deaf, dumb and blind not to understand that in addition to money troubles or loss or grief...that there are places in people's hearts and souls that are not open to others...to analyze or tabulate or study.
And these "places" are not subject to life coaches, or the endless American drumbeat of "tomorrow, tomorrow," or cheer-up drugs.
Sometimes it is just time to end life.
Sometimes the struggle to pretend that all will be well becomes absurd and burdensome.
I think we need to do our best to love, understand and help all around us...but allow them to opt out, when they no longer feel able to endure.
Anyone else have aging parents in the baby boomer generation? The whole article is a worthwhile read, and the comments even more so. It does kind of feel like the aging are treated like discarded commodities. I don't know what changes would be most helpful to fix that. Are the younger generations headed to the same fate? I wonder if it is partly a symptom of "live fast, live hard" that we value in America.
In my eyes a big issue is health. It seems like there are so many people that before they even hit 50 they are decrepit, can barely get around, or are obese. Those health problems don't arise overnight. It is from many years of bad habits, and often times there is no quick fix, but only a slow a painstaking reversal that many are unwilling or unable to commit to, which is understandable but tragic.
Then of course there is mental health. I have very little confidence in our mental health system after being exposed to it for many years in different ways. Just like with bodily health, the focus is entirely on symptoms and disease, but when it comes to actual "health", the so called experts have little to offer. I've met very few mental health practitioners who I would describe as "mentally healthy". On a wider level, I feel that our constant exposure to fear, violence and sex does damage to us over time. Well, enough rambling. Feel free to ramble off your own ideas if you like.
Curious to hear if things are different or similar overseas.
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Guess, what is the primary means of committing suicide?
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On May 04 2013 06:13 farvacola wrote:
Guess, what is the primary means of committing suicide?
I would guess either overdose or firearm. I'm more interested in why than how, but if you were making a point feel free to elaborate.
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Well, if people decide to kill themselves, that's their choice. Just a waste of time if you ask me  .
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On May 04 2013 06:18 Mothra wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2013 06:13 farvacola wrote:
Guess, what is the primary means of committing suicide? I would guess either overdose or firearm. I'm more interested in why than how, but if you were making a point feel free to elaborate.
Pretty sure it is by firearm. An interesting statistic to look at would be how many of those were legally/illegally acquired. How many belonged to a parent/relative. So many numbers.
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On May 04 2013 06:53 Qwyn wrote:Well, if people decide to kill themselves, that's their choice. Just a waste of time if you ask me .
You never know how you'll feel when you're 50+ years old and facing homelessness. No one ever thinks it'll happen to them when they're younger.
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On May 04 2013 07:02 Mothra wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2013 06:53 Qwyn wrote:Well, if people decide to kill themselves, that's their choice. Just a waste of time if you ask me . You never know how you'll feel when you're 50+ years old and facing homelessness. No one ever thinks it'll happen to them when they're younger.
50 years old with 40 more to go? Still a massive waste of time, lol. There are far worse things to fear than homelessness (I know I speak from a position of comfort).
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To be fair, baby boomers have never been regarded as the most responsible generation. I'm sure health is a factor in suicides, but money is definitely a huge contributor. I think you have a point with the "live fast, die young" mentality of such people. The problem with that way of life is not everyone dies young.
Ps I missed my bus stop while writing this. So you better fucking respond.
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On May 04 2013 07:20 TheSwamp wrote:To be fair, baby boomers have never been regarded as the most responsible generation. I'm sure health is a factor in suicides, but money is definitely a huge contributor. I think you have a point with the "live fast, die young" mentality of such people. The problem with that way of life is not everyone dies young. Ps I missed my bus stop while writing this. So you better fucking respond.
Agreed, but nevertheless we want them to have a happy and comfortable old age in spite of past irresponsibility. And I wonder if our generations are going to fare any better. Sorry you missed bus, please don't do anything drastic because of it.
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On May 04 2013 07:17 Qwyn wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2013 07:02 Mothra wrote:On May 04 2013 06:53 Qwyn wrote:Well, if people decide to kill themselves, that's their choice. Just a waste of time if you ask me . You never know how you'll feel when you're 50+ years old and facing homelessness. No one ever thinks it'll happen to them when they're younger. 50 years old with 40 more to go? Still a massive waste of time, lol. There are far worse things to fear than homelessness (I know I speak from a position of comfort).
Yes there are other things to fear, such as being unable to provide for your family, and being treated as a useless burden to society. Remember what it felt like when you were little and nobody took you seriously and everyone bossed you around? That's what's in store for many people as they grow old.
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On May 04 2013 06:13 farvacola wrote:
Guess, what is the primary means of committing suicide?
I don't have exact statstics, but using the traffic to commit suicide is fairly common. It might be less prevalent in the States, what with firearms being a bit more, uhm, commonplace.
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On May 04 2013 07:38 Mothra wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2013 07:17 Qwyn wrote:On May 04 2013 07:02 Mothra wrote:On May 04 2013 06:53 Qwyn wrote:Well, if people decide to kill themselves, that's their choice. Just a waste of time if you ask me . You never know how you'll feel when you're 50+ years old and facing homelessness. No one ever thinks it'll happen to them when they're younger. 50 years old with 40 more to go? Still a massive waste of time, lol. There are far worse things to fear than homelessness (I know I speak from a position of comfort). Yes there are other things to fear, such as being unable to provide for your family, and being treated as a useless burden to society. Remember what it felt like when you were little and nobody took you seriously and everyone bossed you around? That's what's in store for many people as they grow old.
I just can't contemplate why people would give up TRYING to live. Trying to do something. Ever hear the old adage try, try, try again? Why would you ever GIVE UP if you still have more time to go? Even being unable to provide for your family, life is not that bad as long as you try as hard as you can. I understand the opposite viewpoint, but I can't accept it.
The strongest people in the world are those who go through absolute hell and do not give up, even when the future seems impossibly bleak. I would argue that wanting to die is a weakness of the human condition.
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On May 04 2013 07:59 Qwyn wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2013 07:38 Mothra wrote:On May 04 2013 07:17 Qwyn wrote:On May 04 2013 07:02 Mothra wrote:On May 04 2013 06:53 Qwyn wrote:Well, if people decide to kill themselves, that's their choice. Just a waste of time if you ask me . You never know how you'll feel when you're 50+ years old and facing homelessness. No one ever thinks it'll happen to them when they're younger. 50 years old with 40 more to go? Still a massive waste of time, lol. There are far worse things to fear than homelessness (I know I speak from a position of comfort). Yes there are other things to fear, such as being unable to provide for your family, and being treated as a useless burden to society. Remember what it felt like when you were little and nobody took you seriously and everyone bossed you around? That's what's in store for many people as they grow old. I just can't contemplate why people would give up TRYING to live. Trying to do something. Ever hear the old adage try, try, try again? Why would you ever GIVE UP if you still have more time to go? Even being unable to provide for your family, life is not that bad as long as you try as hard as you can. I understand the opposite viewpoint, but I can't accept it. The strongest people in the world are those who go through absolute hell and do not give up, even when the future seems impossibly bleak. I would argue that wanting to die is a weakness of the human condition.
I understand what you're saying. Not sure if I agree that it is a weakness. Let's say it is though. Isn't it the duty of the strong the help the weak? What can we do to help the aging? I know there is the objection "help those who help themselves", but as many of the comments in the article show, people do try very hard, and to face constant rejection and failure on top of physical and mental decline must be very bitter to swallow.
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On May 04 2013 07:33 Mothra wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2013 07:20 TheSwamp wrote:To be fair, baby boomers have never been regarded as the most responsible generation. I'm sure health is a factor in suicides, but money is definitely a huge contributor. I think you have a point with the "live fast, die young" mentality of such people. The problem with that way of life is not everyone dies young. Ps I missed my bus stop while writing this. So you better fucking respond. Agreed, but nevertheless we want them to have a happy and comfortable old age in spite of past irresponsibility. And I wonder if our generations are going to fare any better. Sorry you missed bus, please don't do anything drastic because of it.
It's cool. I got to walk a little extra today. I don't think the current generation of 20 somethings and teenagers will be much better off, unfortunately. One of the major problems is there really isn't a lot of "how to financially prepare for your future/retirement" courses in high school. (If someone has had a class like this I would love to hear if you think it helped you). Kids are just thrown into the world without basic knowledge of how money really works.
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On May 04 2013 10:37 TheSwamp wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2013 07:33 Mothra wrote:On May 04 2013 07:20 TheSwamp wrote:To be fair, baby boomers have never been regarded as the most responsible generation. I'm sure health is a factor in suicides, but money is definitely a huge contributor. I think you have a point with the "live fast, die young" mentality of such people. The problem with that way of life is not everyone dies young. Ps I missed my bus stop while writing this. So you better fucking respond. Agreed, but nevertheless we want them to have a happy and comfortable old age in spite of past irresponsibility. And I wonder if our generations are going to fare any better. Sorry you missed bus, please don't do anything drastic because of it. It's cool. I got to walk a little extra today. I don't think the current generation of 20 somethings and teenagers will be much better off, unfortunately. One of the major problems is there really isn't a lot of "how to financially prepare for your future/retirement" courses in high school. (If someone has had a class like this I would love to hear if you think it helped you). Kids are just thrown into the world without basic knowledge of how money really works.
My dad has spoken to many high school classes about financial planning. He says that the kids don't even pretend to listen to him.
Telling kids doesn't work, they have to see it for themselves. I think the worst thing you can do to a child is pay for everything they want. Pay for what they need: food, shelter, clothing, and schooling. Anything else they want they can either wait for their birthday/christmas or buy themselves.
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Generally it's an issue because people just do it for the stupidest reasons. I've lived very close to suicide, I've known kids my age die to it, I've known adults die to it. The difference is that when adults do it, it tends to be for the same stupid shit that can be fixed, just adult problems rather than kid problems. For the guy in comment, what if he lived with his parents for a little bit? What if he lived with his sister? The idea that sometimes life is pointless, just suffering, that nihilistic view, not an existentialist one, is dangerous in the hands of people that can't think clearly. Being honest here, my grandad committed a prolonged suicide, he stopped chemo, it hurt too bad. Another cancer patient, a doctor who owned the house my family lives in, committed suicide days before his "life deadline" because cancer wasn't going to kill him, he was determined of that. Those reasons, you know what fine, they were dying and they wanted peace when peace comes hard to find; the shit I see people commit suicide for is ridiculous. Life isn't like GG no re-ing from a game and then queuing up again, everyone knows that, but it seems like more and more people don't treat life like they should.
EDIT: by close I don't mean I was close, I mean like it's touched my life.
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I think that culture plays a large role in suicide. Many people say suicide is selfish, and many people say that people are egotistical and self-centered generally. In movies, in music and in stories death is romanticized, even suicides. However much we hate to admit it, we emulate fictional examples as much as real ones. We invent meaning where there is none. In a land of growing technology where far from everyone just having a TV, everyone has constant internet access and unlimited media to expose themselves to, of course we are sculpted to a greater extent by these technologies than previous times. I never hear so much about suicide in countries with little technology, but that's probably because we just don't care.
It's amusing to talk about people who've worked all their lives finding themselves unemployed, when youth unemployment (or at very least underemployment) is such a hot topic. Thanks for the incredibly depressing thread, I guess.
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On May 04 2013 11:02 SnipedSoul wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2013 10:37 TheSwamp wrote:On May 04 2013 07:33 Mothra wrote:On May 04 2013 07:20 TheSwamp wrote:To be fair, baby boomers have never been regarded as the most responsible generation. I'm sure health is a factor in suicides, but money is definitely a huge contributor. I think you have a point with the "live fast, die young" mentality of such people. The problem with that way of life is not everyone dies young. Ps I missed my bus stop while writing this. So you better fucking respond. Agreed, but nevertheless we want them to have a happy and comfortable old age in spite of past irresponsibility. And I wonder if our generations are going to fare any better. Sorry you missed bus, please don't do anything drastic because of it. It's cool. I got to walk a little extra today. I don't think the current generation of 20 somethings and teenagers will be much better off, unfortunately. One of the major problems is there really isn't a lot of "how to financially prepare for your future/retirement" courses in high school. (If someone has had a class like this I would love to hear if you think it helped you). Kids are just thrown into the world without basic knowledge of how money really works. My dad has spoken to many high school classes about financial planning. He says that the kids don't even pretend to listen to him. Telling kids doesn't work, they have to see it for themselves. I think the worst thing you can do to a child is pay for everything they want. Pay for what they need: food, shelter, clothing, and schooling. Anything else they want they can either wait for their birthday/christmas or buy themselves.
That is really disheartening to hear. Is your dad there for just a day? I completely agree that making kids work for things they want will teach them the value of money and give them a good work ethic.
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You think America has suicide problems, look at Korea XD
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On May 04 2013 12:15 docvoc wrote:
Generally it's an issue because people just do it for the stupidest reasons. I've lived very close to suicide, I've known kids my age die to it, I've known adults die to it. The difference is that when adults do it, it tends to be for the same stupid shit that can be fixed, just adult problems rather than kid problems. For the guy in comment, what if he lived with his parents for a little bit? What if he lived with his sister? The idea that sometimes life is pointless, just suffering, that nihilistic view, not an existentialist one, is dangerous in the hands of people that can't think clearly. Being honest here, my grandad committed a prolonged suicide, he stopped chemo, it hurt too bad. Another cancer patient, a doctor who owned the house my family lives in, committed suicide days before his "life deadline" because cancer wasn't going to kill him, he was determined of that. Those reasons, you know what fine, they were dying and they wanted peace when peace comes hard to find; the shit I see people commit suicide for is ridiculous. Life isn't like GG no re-ing from a game and then queuing up again, everyone knows that, but it seems like more and more people don't treat life like they should.
EDIT: by close I don't mean I was close, I mean like it's touched my life.
It's difficult enough to judge why people do things when they are alive. Even harder when they are no longer around to ask why. How do we know their reasons were stupid? But on a more practical note, what is the "treating life like they should" that these people must realize?
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EPT
