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2196 Posts
On September 20 2013 00:39 lord_nibbler wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2013 00:13 Yuljan wrote:On September 19 2013 23:58 lord_nibbler wrote:On September 19 2013 23:34 LaNague wrote:
i will probably vote AfD.
It will be a vote for conservative directions, it will be a vote against FDP, it will be a vote for Merkel and CDU-SPD coalition, but as i said with hinting to them to be more conservative. Voting AfD will not move a Grand Coalition to the right! I am not sure, why you would expect that. 1. The CDU and FDP will not collate with AfD. 2. A CDU + FDP coalition is more to the right than a CDU + SPD one. 3. If AfD gets into the Bundestag, CDU + FDP is not possible anymore. Which makes CDU + SPD almost the only option then. So, if you want to move the next government more conservative, you should simply vote CDU. A vote for AfD ends up either useless (because they did not get over 5%) or backfires for you. It would move the CDU back to the right. As it stands right now the CDU can shamelessy steal voters from the left without fear of losing voters to other conservative parties. If the AFD gets in the Bundestag they may be force to adopt conservative positions again. But maybe it is just too much to hope for. The CDU under Merkels leadership is just a black spd nowadays. The only real reason to vote for the CDU is to block die Grünen from the government which is pretty much assured according to the polls. Ok, you are right insofar as establishing a party right from the CDU as a possible coalition partner will move the CDU to the right in the long run. No doubt, should the AfD still be relevant in four years and seen as mature enough by Merkel to work together. Than there would be an way to 'turn the CDU around' for you. But for the coming election period, this option looks very very unlikely.
I pretty much gave up on a conservative government from this election. Grand Coalition or CDU/FDP isnt much of a difference in the current political climate. And the AFD doesnt even need to be a coalition option. Im betting on furthers left movements from the CDU losing them more voters on the right than they gain on the left. Merkel does not have any ideology so she will just follow the surest way to maintain her power. Like she always does.
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On September 20 2013 00:40 SilentchiLL wrote:
[...] Why would all money be created by debt? [...]
All of this is very confusing to me and I might have misunderstood all about this... but I think all money starts out as credit taken out at the central bank. Perhaps that's what was meant in that post about debt and money.
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On September 19 2013 23:43 MoltkeWarding wrote:
Hm, apparently the Partei der Vernunft is a front for Austrian economists. Ron Paul supporters, flood over?
I never heard of them before seeing your Wahl-O-Mat result. But looking at their homepage, I found they have a section about Ron Paul, so they are probably German Ron Paul fans 
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Ok, fist things first:
On September 20 2013 00:40 SilentchiLL wrote:
Why would all money be created by debt? There are a lot of ways to make money without creating debts for anybody.
No there is not!
This is economics 1.01 ( or rather general education)! If you don't even know, what money is and where it comes from and what the meaning of dept is (personal and national), than please educate yourself!
[..] Since Die Linke is MOSTLY voted by people with a bad or uncomplete education [..]
[..] It's a proven fact that that's where most of Die Linke's voters come from, countrywide it's mostly the poor and uneducated [..] I have had it with you, so I am going to spell it out:
You are talking out of your ass! No proven fact at all, just pure bullshit and prejudices.
http://www.forschungsgruppe.de/Wahlen/Wahlanalysen/Newsl_BTW09.pdf
http://www.forschungsgruppe.de/Wahlen/Wahlanalysen/Newsl_Euro09.pdf
![[image loading]](http://imageshack.us/a/img822/5674/28y7.png)
Most uneducated vote CDU by far.
Greens have the highest educated voters average.
Die Linke is right in the middle with a lean towards higher education. And that is a fact!
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On September 20 2013 02:43 lord_nibbler wrote:Ok, fist things first: Show nested quote +On September 20 2013 00:40 SilentchiLL wrote:
Why would all money be created by debt? There are a lot of ways to make money without creating debts for anybody.
No there is not! This is economics 1.01 ( or rather general education)! If you don't even know, what money is and where it comes from and what the meaning of dept is (personal and national), than please educate yourself! Show nested quote +[..] Since Die Linke is MOSTLY voted by people with a bad or uncomplete education [..]
[..] It's a proven fact that that's where most of Die Linke's voters come from, countrywide it's mostly the poor and uneducated [..] I have had it with you, so I am going to spell it out: You are talking out of your ass! No proven fact at all, just pure bullshit and prejudices. http://www.forschungsgruppe.de/Wahlen/Wahlanalysen/Newsl_BTW09.pdfhttp://www.forschungsgruppe.de/Wahlen/Wahlanalysen/Newsl_Euro09.pdfMost uneducated vote CDU by far. Greens have the highest educated voters average. Die Linke is right in the middle with a lean towards higher education. And that is a fact!
Okay, apparently you ACTUALLY ment the creation of money, and not making money.
My point still stands though, because while money is first created through debt, it would only stay that way if you assume that banks are not making any profits.
You once again refuse to explain yourself, tell me why you think that money can only be created by debt, so I could atleast try to prove properly that you are wrong (in the long run, of course), if you are wrong. If you would have done that in the first place we wouldn't have had that silly misunderstanding about making money and creating money as well.
And if you read back you'll see that I was referencing a statistic from bavaria, and I wouldn't let you quote me on it, but I read once that the kind of people who vote Die Linke differs immensely by the region, though I'd also say that the fact that Die Linke had increased its votes by 37% that year (they gained 3,2 and had 8,7 before, which is a lot ) was due to the fact that many people who traditionally didn't vote Die Linke voted them in 2009.
And if you compare the numbers correctly then you see that the CDU don't have "the most uneducated votes by far" since they may have 37% of the lower secondary school votes, but the percentages of other schools are all in the 30% range as well and the difference for the SPD is actually bigger (28% of the total votes of the CDU come from the lower secondary school, 31,1% of the SPD's total votes come from there), simple math.
So should you want to reply again I would like you to explain what you say for once, your last post was the first one with an actual attempt at that with the statistic, but that was only the lower half of the post, in the upper half you just questioned my education without saying why I'm stupid.
EDIT: I actually just remembered WHY Die Linke got so big 2009 was the year in which the SPD lost -11,2% (which is gigantic and still known as the "Wahlfiasko" of the SPD) and many of their votes went over to Die Linke (of course they lost some in the election before that too, when they lost the majority with the greens due to it and were forced into the grand coalition that caused the Wahlfiasko, but the they only lost 4,3 then and the CDU lost 3,3 in the same year (05).
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On September 20 2013 02:43 lord_nibbler wrote:Ok, fist things first: Show nested quote +On September 20 2013 00:40 SilentchiLL wrote:
Why would all money be created by debt? There are a lot of ways to make money without creating debts for anybody.
No there is not! This is economics 1.01 ( or rather general education)! If you don't even know, what money is and where it comes from and what the meaning of dept is (personal and national), than please educate yourself! Show nested quote +[..] Since Die Linke is MOSTLY voted by people with a bad or uncomplete education [..]
[..] It's a proven fact that that's where most of Die Linke's voters come from, countrywide it's mostly the poor and uneducated [..] I have had it with you, so I am going to spell it out: You are talking out of your ass! No proven fact at all, just pure bullshit and prejudices. http://www.forschungsgruppe.de/Wahlen/Wahlanalysen/Newsl_BTW09.pdfhttp://www.forschungsgruppe.de/Wahlen/Wahlanalysen/Newsl_Euro09.pdfMost uneducated vote CDU by far. Greens have the highest educated voters average. Die Linke is right in the middle with a lean towards higher education. And that is a fact!
This study is meaningful only in context and drawing the 'conclusions' you draw, shows your utter lack of understanding for that context.
Of the people finishing school in these years the following percentage had University qualification:
1960 - 6%
1970 - 11%
1980 - 22%
1990 - 31,4%
2000 - 37,2%
2010 - 49,0%
( data from http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abiturientenquote_und_Studienanfängerquote )
That means that people born around 1940 had to be among the 'smartest' 6% to reach a qualification you seem to consider equal or at least comparable to what every second school finisher born around 1990 did. I don't think so. University qualification today means less than ever before in german history.
It also means that if voters for a party are significantly older on average the quoted statistics become utterly meaningless.
Use of statistics is often cringe-worthy on this site, but stuff like this makes me lose what little faith in humanity I have left.
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On September 20 2013 23:46 Aiobhill wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2013 02:43 lord_nibbler wrote:Ok, fist things first: On September 20 2013 00:40 SilentchiLL wrote:
Why would all money be created by debt? There are a lot of ways to make money without creating debts for anybody.
No there is not! This is economics 1.01 ( or rather general education)! If you don't even know, what money is and where it comes from and what the meaning of dept is (personal and national), than please educate yourself! [..] Since Die Linke is MOSTLY voted by people with a bad or uncomplete education [..]
[..] It's a proven fact that that's where most of Die Linke's voters come from, countrywide it's mostly the poor and uneducated [..] I have had it with you, so I am going to spell it out: You are talking out of your ass! No proven fact at all, just pure bullshit and prejudices. http://www.forschungsgruppe.de/Wahlen/Wahlanalysen/Newsl_BTW09.pdfhttp://www.forschungsgruppe.de/Wahlen/Wahlanalysen/Newsl_Euro09.pdfMost uneducated vote CDU by far. Greens have the highest educated voters average. Die Linke is right in the middle with a lean towards higher education. And that is a fact! This study is meaningful only in context and drawing the 'conclusions' you draw, shows your utter lack of understanding for that context. Of the people finishing school in these years the following percentage had University qualification: 1960 - 6% 1970 - 11% 1980 - 22% 1990 - 31,4% 2000 - 37,2% 2010 - 49,0% ( data from http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abiturientenquote_und_Studienanfängerquote ) That means that people born around 1940 had to be among the 'smartest' 6% to reach a qualification you seem to consider equal or at least comparable to what every second school finisher born around 1990 did. I don't think so. University qualification today means less than ever before in german history. It also means that if voters for a party are significantly older on average the quoted statistics become utterly meaningless. Use of statistics is often cringe-worthy on this site, but stuff like this makes me lose what little faith in humanity I have left.
That's actually a very obvious point that I didn't think of at all.
Now I feel stupid (in a good way).
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So fater clicking through the wahlomat one last time, this time also choosing my "weights" for the points, here's my result:
ödp 88,5% (can't vote for them, as they dont run for the election in the state where I live, Hessia. Probably wouldn't do so anyway; simply because it would feel like a wasted vote. Would at least consider it if I could, though.)
Grüne 78,1%
Piraten 71,9%
SPD 67,7%
Linke 65,6%
DIE PARTEI 64,6%
AFD 63,5%
FDP 62,5%
CDU 56,3%
So Yeah. At least my results are now more distiguishable (is this even an english word?) than when I first checked it some weeks ago.
While I in many ways disagree with the AFD, I still hope that they make it to the Bundestag. They give voice to a euro-crisis-management-scepticism a substantial amount of germans have, but that imho is not taken seriously by the parties currently represented in the Bundestag. This sentiment is too big to not have parliamentaric representaion. Well that's my understanding of democracy at least. We will also see then if they are have some heavy-right-leaning tendencies as the other parties and some media want to make look like.
Same for hoping the pirates making, but with much less disagreement. Probably not gonna happen though 
TBH I find it kinda sad that "we care for your money" (AFD) is much more popular than "we care for your rights"(Pirates).
My first vote is going to the SPD anyway, as in my voting district it's either SPD or CDU. Second vote, Pirates or greens. Because of their ideas, not so much the people that represent them.
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man how times have changed, all the party candidates except for Steinbrück and Merkel on Pro7 primetime. #Raabisking
I guess they desperately want to "appeal to the younger people"
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On September 22 2013 03:25 AsnSensation wrote:
man how times have changed, all the party candidates except for Steinbrück and Merkel on Pro7 primetime. #Raabisking
I guess they desperately want to "appeal to the younger people"
Not only younger people. That stuff is being advertised on ANY channel. I heard about the "battle between merkel and steinbrück" from N24 news.
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On September 22 2013 03:27 Xiron wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2013 03:25 AsnSensation wrote:
man how times have changed, all the party candidates except for Steinbrück and Merkel on Pro7 primetime. #Raabisking
I guess they desperately want to "appeal to the younger people" Not only younger people. That stuff is being advertised on ANY channel. I heard about the "battle between merkel and steinbrück" from N24 news.
I thought it was pretty funny that a lot of people considered Raab the host among the 4 during the tv debate, considering that he's an entertainer and the rest are anchors, talkshowhost etc.
He actually asked stuff the average person wants to know while Peter Kloeppel from RTL asked hilarious shit like:
"Mrs Merkel, do you feel sorry for Mr Steinbrück?" lmao
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the thing on pro7 is pretty brutal i think, fdp business as usual, but why on earth did the cdu send this clown there :D
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Well, if the pro7 results are even remotely close to reality then the next 4 years will be quite sad
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My overly dramatic room mate:
"Wow, only nine hours left until we'll be shaping the fate of Europe and maybe the world."
Haha, he has a point, though. Got to be up early, unless you want to wait for ages.
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On September 22 2013 05:33 Yoshi- wrote:
Well, if the pro7 results are even remotely close to reality then the next 4 years will be quite sad
What do the polls say?
I don't understand my Wahl-O-Mat results this year, what the fuck's the NPD doing so far up there?
PIRATEN 72,8 %
Die PARTEI 71,7 %
DIE LINKE 71,7 %
GRÜNE 71,7 %
NPD 51,1 %
SPD 51,1 %
FDP 43,5 %
CDU / CSU 37 %
It's NEVER been that way.
I don't even understand their answers, for instance:
+ Show Spoiler +These: BAföG soll unabhängig vom Einkommen der Eltern gezahlt werden.
Begründung der Partei„In keinem anderen Land ist Bildung so stark abhängig vom Geldbeutel der Eltern wie in Deutschland. Diese Abhängigkeit muß beendet werden, indem alle Studenten unabhängig vom Geldbeutel der Eltern BAföG erhalten können, wenn sie das wollen.”
That doesn't even make the remotest sense, as it'd give MORE money to kids with rich parents than now and less to poor families... Fucking retards...
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On September 22 2013 06:32 SixStrings wrote:
My overly dramatic room mate:
"Wow, only nine hours left until we'll be shaping the fate of Europe and maybe the world."
Haha, he has a point, though. Got to be up early, unless you want to wait for ages.
Another reason why I like living in a village, I walk in whenever I want, fill it out and get back in around 5 minutes.
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On September 22 2013 06:35 SixStrings wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2013 05:33 Yoshi- wrote:
Well, if the pro7 results are even remotely close to reality then the next 4 years will be quite sad What do the polls say? I don't understand my Wahl-O-Mat results this year, what the fuck's the NPD doing so far up there? PIRATEN 72,8 % Die PARTEI 71,7 % DIE LINKE 71,7 % GRÜNE 71,7 % NPD 51,1 % SPD 51,1 % FDP 43,5 % CDU / CSU 37 % It's NEVER been that way. I don't even understand their answers, for instance: + Show Spoiler +These: BAföG soll unabhängig vom Einkommen der Eltern gezahlt werden.
Begründung der Partei„In keinem anderen Land ist Bildung so stark abhängig vom Geldbeutel der Eltern wie in Deutschland. Diese Abhängigkeit muß beendet werden, indem alle Studenten unabhängig vom Geldbeutel der Eltern BAföG erhalten können, wenn sie das wollen.”
That doesn't even make the remotest sense, as it'd give MORE money to kids with rich parents than now and less to poor families... Fucking retards...
wahl-o-mat has the tendency to give extremist higher percentages because the questions are so generic
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On September 22 2013 05:33 Yoshi- wrote:
Well, if the pro7 results are even remotely close to reality then the next 4 years will be quite sad
nah it's because of the average TV Total viewer that's why you get these results. Granma from backwoods village numer 12432958 is not watching that show and wont call either, but she'll go vote for the CHRISTIAN party because her priest told her to
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Even for the average TV Total viewer 50% for Die Linke would just be sad.
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On September 22 2013 08:08 Yoshi- wrote:
Even for the average TV Total viewer 50% for Die Linke would just be sad.
I'd rather have wildly optimistic, slightly delusional politicians who suck at math but have solid moral basics than a super-conservative, bigoted government whose moral compass is based upon the deranged ideology of the Catholic church.
How can you support a party that:
- opposes gay adoption rights
- wants to cut welfare in case of people being reluctant to do demeaning jobs
- supports public surveillance
- supports on-line surveillance
Just to name a few.
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EPT
