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MoltkeWarding
5195 Posts
My favoured parties, according to the automated calcuator, are supposed to be in the following order: Partei der Vernunft Republikaner AfD Bayernpartei Buergerbewegung pro Deutschland Buergerrechts Bewegung NPD FDP CDU/CSU Nichtwaehler Bibeltreuer Christen Rentner Freie Waehler Soziale Gleichheit Volkabstimmung Tierschutz Oekologisch Piraten Familie Marxistisch-Leninistisch Gruene SPD Linke Die Partei Frauen Innovation und Gerechtigkeit Violetten | ||
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Drake
Germany6146 Posts
On September 19 2013 23:31 MoltkeWarding wrote: I am going to bite the bullet and take this infamous Wahl-o-mat here: My favoured parties, according to the automated calcuator, are supposed to be in the following order: Partei der Vernunft Republikaner AfD Bayernpartei Buergerbewegung pro Deutschland NPD FDP CDU/CSU Nichtwaehler Bibeltreuer Christen Rentner Freie Waehler Volkabstimmung Tierschutz Oekologisch Piraten Familie Marxistisch-Leninistisch Gruene SPD Linke Die Partei Frauen Innovation und Gerechtigkeit nazis on 2 (republicans) lefties on the last places, dont write to much cause i nearly know exactly what you voted now ^^ | ||
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LaNague
Germany9118 Posts
It will be a vote for conservative directions, it will be a vote against FDP, it will be a vote for Merkel and CDU-SPD coalition, but as i said with hinting to them to be more conservative. i would vote for internet stuff, but the pirate party is completely left wing in all other matters. And FPD is full of corrupt people, cant vote fort them. + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BSSILrHCQAEq3GV.png:large) https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BSSILrHCQAEq3GV.png:largeelection advertisement: Marriage for homosexuals actual vote: everyone against it. | ||
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Drake
Germany6146 Posts
at least OUR weapons work xD On September 19 2013 23:34 LaNague wrote: i will probably vote AfD. It will be a vote for conservative directions, it will be a vote against FDP, it will be a vote for Merkel and CDU-SPD coalition, but as i said with hinting to them to be more conservative. i would vote for internet stuff, but the pirate party is completely left wing in all other matters. And FPD is full of corrupt people, cant vote fort them. + Show Spoiler + https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BSSILrHCQAEq3GV.png:largeelection advertisement: Marriage for homosexuals actual vote: everyone against it. jaeh but also you give MONEY to the AfD with your vote ... if thats the best to give money to a party of such people ... read exactly what they want PLEASE read it before you vote for them ... sure i understand vote for fpd is not possible, you wont say ok to cdu to be so lefty now and that spd etc is unvoteable for a conservatire currently is easy to understand but ... plz read the script exactly what they want AND who say it, i am sure you change your mind | ||
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lord_nibbler
Germany591 Posts
On September 19 2013 07:57 SilentchiLL wrote: Ok, since you brought up this "Reichtum für alle" for a third time now, I'm going to take your bait.EDIT: even you must have chuckled when you saw this + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://www.spreeblick.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/linke.jpg) And I will be direct (sorry if it gets too personal for you now).  Have you even spend a minute to think about, what they could mean, when they say "wealth for all"? Because, the whole point of this statement seems to be over your head. Do you really think "prosperity for all" means "a lot of money for everybody"? Really? So, stop for a minute and reflect on it. What is "richness" for you? Is money the only thing one can and should get plenty of? Should abundance of personal possessions by a small group really be the only goal of politics in our society? Is the whole point of politics to divide us into "rich" and "poor", is this some kind of law of nature? For me "Everybody should be rich" translates to "Stop thinking in those categories". We are all humans born equally, to label one group as "poor" and then ignore them and their sufferings because 'that is the way we do it in a capitalist society', is unjust. Can there ever be a society, where everybody is given the same amount of freedom and opportunity in his life? Probably not. But does that in turn mean we should just accept inequality as a fact of life and do nothing about it? Everybody competes only for himself, getting rich from exploiting others. Is that what we should strife for? For someone to be rich, someone has to be poor. Simple as that. | ||
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SilentchiLL
Germany1405 Posts
On September 19 2013 23:33 Drake wrote: nazis on 2 (republicans) lefties on the last places, dont write to much cause i nearly know exactly what you voted now ^^ No you don't, try taking the test and answer honestly and even as a very left leaning guy you can come up with some very weird parties on top, I've seen that often enough with people who'd never vote anything else than a left-leaning party. | ||
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MoltkeWarding
5195 Posts
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Yoshi-
Germany10227 Posts
On September 19 2013 23:34 LaNague wrote: i will probably vote AfD. It will be a vote for conservative directions, it will be a vote against FDP, it will be a vote for Merkel and CDU-SPD coalition, but as i said with hinting to them to be more conservative. i would vote for internet stuff, but the pirate party is completely left wing in all other matters. And FPD is full of corrupt people, cant vote fort them. + Show Spoiler + https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BSSILrHCQAEq3GV.png:largeelection advertisement: Marriage for homosexuals actual vote: everyone against it. Funny how you vote AfD, which is pretty as homophobic as it can get, but criticize the FPD for voting against same sex marriage. Moreover, due to the way how coalitions work the smaller party often needs to side with the larger one, even if they have a different opinion, so it is no suprise that they vote different to what they really want. This is the way how it works, you cannot really bring that up to criticize someone. | ||
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NexCa
Germany954 Posts
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SilentchiLL
Germany1405 Posts
On September 19 2013 23:39 lord_nibbler wrote: Ok, since you brought up this "Reichtum für alle" for a third time now, I'm going to take your bait. And I will be direct (sorry if it gets too personal for you now). Have you even spend a minute to think about, what they could mean, when they say "wealth for all"? Because, the whole point of this statement seems to be over your head. Do you really think "prosperity for all" means "a lot of money for everybody"? Really? So, stop for a minute and reflect on it. What is "richness" for you? Is money the only thing one can and should get plenty of? Should abundance of personal possessions by a small group really be the only goal of politics in our society? Is the whole point of politics to divide us into "rich" and "poor", is this some kind of law of nature? For me "Everybody should be rich" translates to "Stop thinking in those categories". We are all humans born equally, to label one group as "poor" and then ignore them and their sufferings because 'that is the way we do it in a capitalist society', is unjust. Can there ever be a society, where everybody is given the same amount of freedom and opportunity in his life? Probably not. But does that in turn mean we should just accept inequality as a fact of life and do nothing about it? Everybody competes only for himself, getting rich from exploiting others. Is that what we should strife for? For someone to be rich, someone has to be poor. Simple as that. For me it translates into a phrase used to catch the attention of poor people and old DDR-nostalgics (denglish, oh yeah). And to be honest, I think your interpretation of it is very far out there, lol. I would have accepted it if you would have said that they want to decrease the number of poor people as much as they can (which is the most positive way I can think of), but I very much doubt that the guy who came up with that phrase thought "All those normal citizens who walk past this poster will think "Stop thinking in those categories", that's just utopic and if I have to be completely honest I would also say naive. Wanting to make the society more equal (in the sense of making more people less poor), isn't exactly something Die Linke monopolizes as a goal. EDIT: Don't worry about getting too personal though, you did fine in that post (even though there was a funny overabundance of rhetorical questions  ). | ||
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lord_nibbler
Germany591 Posts
On September 19 2013 23:34 LaNague wrote: i will probably vote AfD. It will be a vote for conservative directions, it will be a vote against FDP, it will be a vote for Merkel and CDU-SPD coalition, but as i said with hinting to them to be more conservative. Voting AfD will not move a Grand Coalition to the right! I am not sure, why you would expect that. 1. The CDU and FDP will not collate with AfD. 2. A CDU + FDP coalition is more to the right than a CDU + SPD one. 3. If AfD gets into the Bundestag, CDU + FDP is not possible anymore. Which makes CDU + SPD almost the only option then. So, if you want to move the next government more conservative, you should simply vote CDU. A vote for AfD ends up either useless (because they did not get over 5%) or backfires for you. | ||
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MoltkeWarding
5195 Posts
This knocks out virtually all likely combinations, apart from the (admittedly likely) re-election of CDU/FDP. Yet we all know that post-electoral negotiations will turn something up. Germany is not Belgium. | ||
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Yuljan
2196 Posts
On September 19 2013 23:58 lord_nibbler wrote: Voting AfD will not move a Grand Coalition to the right! I am not sure, why you would expect that. 1. The CDU and FDP will not collate with AfD. 2. A CDU + FDP coalition is more to the right than a CDU + SPD one. 3. If AfD gets into the Bundestag, CDU + FDP is not possible anymore. Which makes CDU + SPD almost the only option then. So, if you want to move the next government more conservative, you should simply vote CDU. A vote for AfD ends up either useless (because they did not get over 5%) or backfires for you. It would move the CDU back to the right. As it stands right now the CDU can shamelessy steal voters from the left without fear of losing voters to other conservative parties. If the AFD gets in the Bundestag they may be force to adopt conservative positions again. But maybe it is just too much to hope for. The CDU under Merkels leadership is just a black spd nowadays. The only real reason to vote for the CDU is to block die Grünen from the government which is pretty much assured according to the polls. | ||
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SilentchiLL
Germany1405 Posts
On September 20 2013 00:05 MoltkeWarding wrote: I was wondering about the no coalition with AfD announcement. Certainly it is the proper thing to say in the campaign, since it creates exactly the hesitation among CDU-AfD swing voters which you are invoking. However if you look at the electoral mathematics as to who has declared what, it is evident that none of these slogans can be taken at face value. So far, the following declarations have been made: Mr. Steinbrueck will not enter a coalition with a CDU led by Merkel. SPD will not join with the Linke. Greens will not join with the CDU/CSU. CDU will not join with the AfD. This knocks out virtually all likely combinations, apart from the (admittedly likely) re-election of CDU/FDP. Yet we all know that post-electoral negotiations will turn something up. Germany is not Belgium. Merkel has said in atleast one interview already as well that a CDU-Green coalition won't happen because they are too far apart, so I guess that goes both ways. | ||
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PandaCore
Germany553 Posts
There are some parties that are favored, since I agree with most of their politics, but then they also have a lot of points I strongly disagree with as well. There isn't really a party that's just right for me so far... just some that are less bad than others. | ||
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MoltkeWarding
5195 Posts
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lord_nibbler
Germany591 Posts
On September 19 2013 23:54 SilentchiLL wrote: Again, I feel, your response is rather shallow.For me it translates into a phrase used to catch the attention of poor people and old DDR-nostalgics (denglish, oh yeah). And to be honest, I think your interpretation of it is very far out there, lol. I would have accepted it if you would have said that they want to decrease the number of poor people as much as they can (which is the most positive way I can think of), but I very much doubt that the guy who came up with that phrase thought "All those normal citizens who walk past this poster will think "Stop thinking in those categories", that's just utopic and if I have to be completely honest I would also say naive. Wanting to make the society more equal (in the sense of making more people less poor), isn't exactly something Die Linke monopolizes as a goal. EDIT: Don't worry about getting too personal though, you did fine in that post (even though there was a funny overabundance of rhetorical questions ).None of these questions where rhetorical, and neither was my interpretation 'out there'. You think "Reichtum für alle" and "Reichtum besteurern" is some kind of contradiction and therefore funny. While I (and the voters of the Linke) see it basically as the exact same demand. All money is created by dept. So, by definition for someone to have a lot of money there has to be someone with a lot of dept. So, demanding to tax the rich more or demanding to give to the poor more, is the same fucking thing. Nothing funny or contradictory about it... | ||
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Yuljan
2196 Posts
On September 20 2013 00:20 MoltkeWarding wrote: Has anyone taken a look at the FAZ headline today? According to the INSA survey, only 16% of likely AfD voters are defectors from CDU/CSU, behind FDP defectors (22%) and ahead of Linke defectors (9%) The number defecting from Greens and SPD are miniscule. However, a greater portion of likely AfD voters are either protest voters, or defectors from another alternative party. I think it was the same for the pirate party when they were popular 1-2 years ago. | ||
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lord_nibbler
Germany591 Posts
On September 20 2013 00:13 Yuljan wrote: Ok, you are right insofar as establishing a party right from the CDU as a possible coalition partner will move the CDU to the right in the long run.It would move the CDU back to the right. As it stands right now the CDU can shamelessy steal voters from the left without fear of losing voters to other conservative parties. If the AFD gets in the Bundestag they may be force to adopt conservative positions again. But maybe it is just too much to hope for. The CDU under Merkels leadership is just a black spd nowadays. The only real reason to vote for the CDU is to block die Grünen from the government which is pretty much assured according to the polls. No doubt, should the AfD still be relevant in four years and seen as mature enough by Merkel to work together. Than there would be an way to 'turn the CDU around' for you. But for the coming election period, this option looks very very unlikely. | ||
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SilentchiLL
Germany1405 Posts
On September 20 2013 00:20 lord_nibbler wrote: Again, I feel, your response is rather shallow. None of these questions where rhetorical, and neither was my interpretation 'out there'. You think "Reichtum für alle" and "Reichtum besteuern" is some kind of contradiction and therefore funny. While I (and the voters of the Linke) see it basically as the exact same demand. All money is created by dept. So, by definition for someone to have a lot of money there has to be someone with a lot of dept. So, demanding to tax the rich more or demanding to give to the poor more, is the same fucking thing. Nothing funny or contradictory about it... Why would all money be created by debt? There are a lot of ways to make money without creating debts for anybody. (You may be talking about the trade surplus of germany which is created by a trade deficit from other countries, otherwise it doesn't make much sense, but even that has nothing to do with this discussion) And of course it's only a contradiction if you take it literally, what makes it funny is that a party that mostly directs its politics after what SOUNDS good makes something that SOUNDS so obviously contradicting is hilarious though. And of course your interpretation was "out there" as I said, I can't imagine that most people who saw "Reichtum für alle" thought that it means "Stop thinking in those categories" and I also can't imagine that the guy who wrote that thought that most people would think so because it's pretty far away from what's actually on the poster and needs some interpretation for somebody to even get there and since Die Linke is MOSTLY voted by people with a bad or incomplete education and posters are supposed to tell you something with one quick look, I don't think that most Linke voters would immediately get to the same point where you got. Either explain WHY you think it isn't out there and tell me why you think that it's completely obvious that most people would think the way you think and that it was intended that way, or stop disagreeing with me. Because if you give no reasons we will end up going "You're wrong!" "No, you're wrong!" until the end of this thread. And before you say "that's very insulting etc.etc." it's a proven fact that that's where most of Die Linke's voters come from, countrywide it's mostly the poor and uneducated, which is why they are more succesful in the poorer states, if you read the Sueddeutsche (the biggest LEFT-leaning newspaper in germany), then you may have seen a statistic there about the election in bavaria and saw what kind of people voted which parties. And as I said, Die Linke doesn't monopolize the wish to tax rich people more. Oh and I would welcome it if you wouldn't call my posts shallow when I actually explain why you're wrong while you just say that I'm wrong and make weird smileys that guys usually use on the net when they hit on chicks through facebook. + Show Spoiler + That was a joke. ...mostly atleast | ||
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