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Belial's Heatsink, TIM Comparison, and Reviews: Hy

Blogs > Belial88
Post a Reply
Belial88
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States5217 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-01-06 01:17:44
January 06 2013 01:02 GMT
#1
Hi. I'm a 1500+ Masters Zerg, who also wrote:

  • [G] Belial’s Comprehensive Guide to Everything ZvP!
  • [G] Belial's Comprehensive Guide to Everything ZvT!
  • [G] Belial's Comprehensive Guide to Beating 6 pool!
  • Belial's Guide: How to Build a Budget PC
  • ZvP: Ling/Infestor or: How I Grew to Love ZvP
  • [G] Belial's Comprehensive Guide to Overlords!


[image loading]

This will be a 2 part round-up of the following coolers:

  • CoolerMaster Hyper 212+
  • Corsair H50
  • Noctua NH-D14


and following pastes:

  • PK-1
  • PK-2
  • PK-3


Using the results here, along with the many benches and reviews out on the web, I think you can draw conclusions about the products discussed here. This is not meant to be an exact study on the products, but rather a relative one, that will answer the following questions:


  • What is the difference between a low end, a mid-range, and high end, CPU cooler?
  • What is the difference between an established, high-end paste like PK-1, and the new generation of pastes like PK-3?
  • How good is PK-2 and PK-3 (given that we pretty much know exactly how PK-1 compares to every other paste out there)?



Testing Methodology:
+ Show Spoiler +

I attempted to strictly stick to apples to apples comparisons here. As I see it, testing heatsinks at stock is really quite useless - a certain heatsink might be awesome, but due to a low quality fan (perhaps, so as to make sure the price is quite affordable), the heatsink is written off as low quality. Or, perhaps the heatsink comes with a fan that is focused on being quiet, or long lasting, instead of being powerful.

For example, the Corsair H70 comes with 2 powerful fans (that still suck), and the H50 comes with 1 weak fan. The H50 actually outperforms the H70 in apples to apples, it has more FPI and is a better cooler, but with stock set-ups, the H70 wins simply because it has 2 fans (with closed loops, whoever has the biggest fans will do the best anyways, moreso than design). Both H50 and H70 come with crap fans, and you need to replace them to get their real performance anyways.

Or, take the Hyper 212 Evo. It tends to perform about 2-3*C better than the Hyper 212+. Now, both of these fans come with absolutely atrocious fans, that are deafening, making an annoying whine, and extremely powerful. This is partly why these heatsinks are so cheap and cool so well. However, the Hyper 212 Evo, has a slightly stronger fan, slightly more FPI, and a lapped base. In apples to apples tests, the Evo is only maybe 1-2*C better, which is basically the results you'd get for lapping the base - in short, the Evo is just a 212+ with a lapped base and a better included fan, which is not worth the ~$9 price premium (getting better thermal paste with that $9 would give you a bigger temp drop).

And we're all enthusiasts here. Chances are, most of us have a huge stack of fans anyways, or we throw away the stock fans because even on a mid-range or higher end cooler, they still are crap, overpriced, and loud. So this review is focused on true heatsink performance, not on how good are the fans included with the heatsink.

Because the real point of this review is not Hyper 212+ vs H50, but Low End vs Mid Range vs High End cooling, and what fan a heatsink comes with varies. I want to see, is a Megahalem/H60/Mugen/9900MAX a significant temp drop from the Hyper 212+, or is it not really any different? Is a dual tower worth the huge price tag, or is it just a tiny bit of performance for a ton of extra cash?

So with a focus on apples to apples, here's how I tested the heatsinks:

  • Phenom II 955 Overclocked to 3.7ghz@1.504vcore. Everything else stock.
  • PK-2, as it is very easy to apply (marketed as easier than PK-1 and PK-3, and I agree), with a rice grain amount.
  • Tests are done in an air controlled room, with consistent case temps
  • On the Hyper 212+, 2 x Yate Loons Mediums @ 100%. Spreading paste was done with spread method.
  • On the H50, 2 x Yate Loons Mediums @ 100%, as intake, with the radiator in the front of the case. Normally, I cable tie an intake fan in my 5.25 in. drive bays, but I took the H50 and cable tied it there in place.
  • On the NH-D14, stock Noctua Fans 120mm + 140mm. The best for apples to apples would be Yate-M/140mm/Yate-M, to include the advantage of 3 fans and being able to use a 140mm pressure, but the NH-D14 was so much better even at stock configuration, Yate Loons are unable to use the Noctua's wire mounts (without heavy modding).
  • Case temp 25*C, 69.5-70*F ambient
  • Prime95 Custom Small FFT Min length 8/Max Length 8, Priority 10/Above Normal, for at least 20 minutes. IBT is inconsistent and gives are sort of plateau, then rise in temp, for each new test run, and Blend does not stress the CPU like Small FFT. Min/Max FFT length of 8 maxes out the CPU temps and keeps results consistent.
  • NZXT Gamma case, 2 x Intake (bottom, top cable tied in), 1 x Rear, 2 x Top Rear Yate Loons. In the case of the Hyper 212+ and H50, the rear is the Blademaster, otherwise all fans are Yate Loon Mediums except Top Rear is NZXT Gamma stock fan (except in case of NH-D14). Basically, I have a ton of fans pulling air into the case, and there very good air flow. Cleaned.


I also did quite a few remounts of each paste, different configurations, but let's say for evidence's sake, I did a single mount of each heatsink. I believe my results are within 1*C but I'd say 2*C error to be more accurate.

Listed is the max temp (which consistently was 0.5*C above median temp) as noted by HWInfo64.


Heatsink Comparison
+ Show Spoiler +

Hyper 212+:
61*C High

Corsair H50:
57*C Max

NH-D14:
49*C

Thermal Paste Comparison
+ Show Spoiler +

- Corsair H50 as intake, in front of case.
- All 3 pastes are tested in same night, in air controlled room.

PK-1
57*C Max

PK-2
57*C Max

PK-3
54*C Max

NH-D14:
PK1: 49*C
PK2: 48*C
PK3: 45*C

http://www.overclock.net/content/type/61/id/1182959/width/350/height/700/flags/LL

Conclusion:
+ Show Spoiler +

PK-1 and PK-2 perform the same, As just an update to PK-1, PK-2 is definitely better and simply easier to spread. I did not find PK-1 that hard to spread though.

PK-3 is way better. This revealed itself in multiple reseats too, it was quite surprising. Given that we all know that PK-1 is arguably one of the best pastes out there, PK-3 just blows everything else away. There have been a few new pastes recently - Masscool, Gelid GC Extreme, and Phobya Hegrease i think, that are quite high end, but I don't see them being significantly better than PK-3 given that PK-3 is significantly better than PK-1. Just imagine if this these tests were conducted on an Intel set-up where the temperature ranges are in the 80's, you'd probably see even bigger differences in different thermal pastes and coolers there.

For coolers, the Hyper 212+ is actually pretty terrible and more like $20 to make it worth it, than $20 is such a great value. Midrange cooling options at $40-50, like a Corsair H50, is good value (and at cheaper, a great value), and offer a small, but significant, upgrade to the Hyper 212+ . The real value, truthfully, is in high class coolers like the NH-D14 on sale for under $60 (for $50 or less, it's just a steal), and definitely a better value than the Hyper 212+ or other low end coolers at $20 or less, or mid-range coolers for $40 or less. Frankly, at $70+, they aren't priced too terribly, although I'd say $80+ is a bit too much.

The best cooler to buy though, is what you need, but for any overclocking chip, you'll probably need at least mid-range cooling, and you might need high end cooling if your pushing the limits of a 24/7 overclock or got a hot chip, or just an overclocking enthusiast.

The Corsair H50 is definitely an upgrade to the Hyper 212+. In fact, the Hyper 212+ it not really that good a cooler, it's simply okay for the price, but given that you can find the Corsair H50 for $20 used on ebay, which is as cheap as a brand new Hyper 212+ on sale or after rebate, I think it's the better buy. You can also find all sorts of closed loop 120mm radiators going for insanely cheap these days, for some reason they are all on sale around $30-50, at which price they are a better buy than the Hyper 212s for value, especially if you put better fans on them.

The H50 was tested not just to show the performance of closed loops though, it's also to compare the Hyper 212/NH-D14 (ie low and high end cooling) to any mid-range cooler. The Corsair H50 performs in dead heat, generally, to Prolimatech Megahalems, TRUE 120 & Venomous X, and other popular mid-range coolers. At above $40, I don't think mid-range cooling is worth it, even higher end mid-range coolers like the Antec 620 or H60, but if you can find such a cooler on sale, you might want to consider it's value over the Hyper 212, or any low end cooler in general.

Finally, the NH-D14. Wow, what a value. With an 11*C temp drop, just at the 50's, you can see why dual towers tend to be around $70-80. However, I found my NH-D14 for $43 (after shipping) on Ebay, and sometimes you can find dual towers like the Assassin and NH-D14 for $39-59 if you find the right deal, or used.

If you can find a dual tower under $60, it's simply a better value than the Hyper 212+ at $20. I was truly shocked at how much of a performance gain is to be had with a high end heatsink, and I really expected that a high end air cooler wouldn't be much better, and just a ridiculous price premium for a couple degrees, but I am pleasantly surprised to be completely wrong on that.

The Hyper 212+ simply is not adequate cooling for overclocking an overclocking CPU. It gives a large temp drop over stock cooling, sure, and at $20 it's quite cheap, but if you plan to push the 24/7 voltage limits of your chip, or for higher end overclocks, it won't be enough. Given that you can find other coolers at great deals, I think it's best to look past the Hyper 212+ for another cooler these days. I don't think I'll be recommending the Hyper 212+ to fellow overclockers.

On the other hand, if you just need just a few more degrees, consider buying some new thermal paste. You can find PK-3 @ 1.5g for under $4 at some places, including shipping. Now after this review, I do believe PK-3 is going to be the best conventional paste out there (non-destructive, standard application paste), considering how well just PK-1 compares to most pastes out there. But Phobya Hegrease (more expensive than most pastes), Coollaboratory Liquids, IC Diamond, even at $15-25, for 2-10*C price drops from most other pastes, is still a good deal.

All in all, I've been surprised by the results. If anyone is out there considering buying aftermarket cooling, seriously look into higher end solutions, as well as better fans, or thermal paste, for extra degrees. You can get a significant decrease in temps with higher end cooling, and you can also get a significant drop in temps by switching to a better thermal paste. I did not expect such a significant change by just changing my thermal paste or cooler, as I did in these tests.

I'd also like to thank Prolimatech for giving me the opportunity to do this. They were quite helpful and gave me a lot of feedback with some questions I had in doing all of this.

Reviews
+ Show Spoiler +

This is just general impressions of products, my thoughts on their build and such, overall quality, and pricing. I hate when reviewers talk about how great a cooler is for the price, yet at the same time I hate when reviewers bag on a product, like a $30 PSU for not being modular, because they don't account for it's price. The best reviews, are the ones that talk about absolute quality, features, while being aware of the item's price, and discussing at what price limit the product is at (ie what is the limit at which the product is priced fairly, what price it's a steal, what price it should be).

PK1/2/3
PK-3 is awesome. I was surprised by how much better it was than PK1, which was significantly better than my stock CM paste. You read that improved paste will only give you like a degree or two at most, but I was consistently getting 3-5*C just from PK3 vs PK1 over multiple remounts. I was also getting consistent results from reseating pastes over and over. How you spread largely doesn't matter much, it's more about quantity. Just don't use the spread method (even though Prolimatech recommends it with their paste), it gave me disastrous results every time I did it.

You also don't need to cover the entire IHS, I was surprised by that. As in, consistently, having paste only cover around the die was more than enough, and temps, if anything, dropped in my attempts to put enough paste on so it would cover the entire IHS. You really can't use too little TIM, a small dot or grain of rice is more than enough, you shouldn't use more than that. If you use enough paste to cover the IHS you are probably using too much.

At $4 for 1.5g of PK-3 on ebay, it's a great way to shave a good 3-8*C off (depending what you currently use), which is a price/performance ratio that's hard to find in aftermarket cooling, you only get that like compared to the stock cooler.

Also, although I didn't get to do authoritative tests on the subject, this stuff outclassed AS5. I don't know why anyone recommends such a terrible paste still, it's terribly outdated by now. There's so many better pastes for the same price, and it's hardly proven or convenient when it's the most inconvenient paste around. Modern pastes are generally focused on being convenient, less conductive, less toxic, less viscous, less corrossive, no burn in time, easier to remove, as pastes these days are all really good performers. While I don't really care about these kinds of things, given that modern pastes are so focused on this, I do have to note that PK1, PK2, and PK3 didn't appear to have any burn in time at all. They all seemed pretty easy to deal with, although I could tell PK2 was easier than PK3.

Hyper 212+
This was my first cooler, and a great entry-level heatsink, of course. It is the most popular heatsink out there, too.

Mounting with the Hyper 212+ is fairly easy. The Heatpipe Direct Touch design makes the heatsink very cheap, and perform very well at the lower temp ranges or powers, but will not stand up to hotter temp ranges. This cooler was all I needed for an Athlon II build, but with a Phenom II it was really stretching it, and I needed performance paste, a 2nd fan, tons of case fans, just to push 3.7ghz. Now for gaming and general usage, and even in Prime95 blend testing, I'm not going to see temps nearly as high as Small FFT, but with encoding and streaming, as I do, you still get hot temps and you'd rather not push the limits in general encoding usage.

A great first heatsink, and recently around $19, it's decently priced, but any sort of K series or black edition or high end overclock will need more than a hyper 212+.

The paste it comes with isn't half bad, but is not a performance paste. I've found the best way to paste this thing, is to use the line method, as outlined by BenchmarkReviews. You might be tempted to use the spread method on this kind of heatsink - don't. You'll end up using an entire bottle to fill in the cracks, you'll just wipe the paste off the raised areas. Just a few lines on the heatpipes, and the rest of the paste will spread out. Don't use too much.

A 2nd fan will benefit the heatsink by a degree or three. The heatsink feels solid, the mount is solid (but will allow you to wiggle the heatsink around, for better or worse). It's fairly easy to mount the heatsink and to mount/remount/unmount it, as well as take off the fans.

At more than $20, I'd say this heatsink is not worth it. I wouldn't pay more than $25 for the Hyper 212 Evo, either, or any other low end cooler. It's a much better value than most of it's peers, for sure, but nowadays it is getting a little outdated and outpaced, and you should be able to find a better value cooler or a better cooler with equal value, and if you're spending only $20 frankly I think you are better off just buying a used or flawed mid-range cooler off ebay, as you don't have much to lose with just $20 (it's not like a Hyper 212+ has any resale value...).

Corsair H50
I was pretty impressed with this heatsink. I came across the H50 because I was looking for a way to upgrade from the Hyper 212+, and pay for a good value. In essence, I was looking for a Hyper 212+ that was a step up from the Hyper 212+. You hear everyone recommend the Hyper 212+, but you don't really hear the same clamor for mid-range coolers, and you don't hear the words "value" when it comes to high end coolers exactly either (although it does exist).

For some odd reason, the H50 tends to sell at really discounted used prices. Now, you might say that's a dumb observation, don't all heatsinks, and all things in general, sell cheaper used? No - what I mean, is that the Corsair H50 sells for much cheaper used. You can find Corsair H50's around 50-70% cheaper used than new, while most heatsinks tend to sell only around 20-30% cheaper when used, even very similar closed loops. There's a few other coolers that tend to sell very cheap when used as well (True 120, which is old as bones now, Zalman 9900Max, which is odd and can't mount different fans, Zerotherm ZT-10D which no one has heard of), but they are all slightly more expensive for the same performance or a bit worse for only slightly cheaper.

And, if you find a 'defective' Corsair H50, you can just find these for a handful of dollars. Literally. Corsair will send you a free mounting kit if you email them, but a Corsair used, with stripped screws (which cost pennies at the hardware store, by the way...), will run about $11. I found my Corsair H50 for $27 after shipping.

And, after Christmas, prices have just plummeted for Corsair H50's. Paying over $30 (including shipping) nowadays for a used Corsair H50 is too much. While you might question buying something used, the performance on these is so good that it's worth it, and you can't go wrong with $20 for a closed loop water cooler.

Mounting the Corsair H50 is a bit of a pain. Online, you hear a lot of people recommend the Corsair H50, because as a closed loop it must be easy to install. Not so - I had a much harder time making the Corsair H50 fit, than my NH-D14 (which I only had to remove a custom VRM fan to fit, it still fit with my custom VRM heatsink, and the Nh-D14 cools your VRM too with it's 140mm).

The radiator on the H50 is slightly taller than a 120mm fan, so don't think it'll simply fit anywhere a 120mm fan would. I could not mount this fan on any 120mm fan location on my case because of this - there are small, ~1cm additions both on top and bottom of the radiator where the water runs through. If you want to use push/pull, which should be a requirement for this thing (more on that later), you're taking up 25mm + 25mm + 25mm. In fact, I believe the H50 is slightly more than 25mm, it'd be more like 30mm.

80mm comes out pretty far, as evidenced in the picture section. It will be right on top of your CPU in a mid-size ATX case, which makes things awkwards with the hoses (a whole thing on it's own...). If you have spot cooling or custom cooling on your VRM, you might have compability issues. Basically, if your VRM is tall like tall RAM, you might have an issue. Also, this may prevent you from using top fans, because of how the radiator is 120mm + some.

The tubes are extremely stiff on the H50 - this has been changed with the updated H55 and the newer H60/H80 models. The corrugated tubing is meant to be extremely evaporation resistant, so the unit will last forever and the water in it won't slowly dissapear over time (which does happen). I'm sure this is all true, but that doesn't mean they aren't any less of a pain in the behind to deal with. You'll find yourself fighting the tubes, and they are so stiff you feel like it'll snap when you try to mount the radiator or waterblock, and the tension is so tight the radiator will swing like a metal bowling pin in a cartoon (and crash through your case or break your face...).

I loved the Corsair H50, but one thing it is not, is convenient. Don't let this deter you from buying this cooler, it's a great cooler, but it is NOT a convenient cooler! It's not a simple "Oh well since it's water I'll just mount the radiator anywhere!" There's a limited turning radius on the tubes, and Corsair even recommends you mount the radiator to reduce 'hose torque' (the pressure can be so great from the stiff wires that it'll actually affect the waterblock mount on your CPU).

If you want the Corsair logo to be pretty and level, you're gonna have a very hard time mounting this cooler somewhere. The hoses will dictate how the logo will be oriented, basically. There is discussion that the Corsair H50 may or may not be better mounted one way or another, and in regards to it's orientation, as well. I found that it's perfectly fine for the radiator to be mounted vertically, up top or on the rear, and intake vs outtake. What is important though, is that the cooler gets cool air, so as long as you have good case air flow, it's okay for it to be exhaust. I did have different results in where the cooler was mounted, and it was generally based on if it was getting good air flow or not, not how it was positioned.

What is important with the H50 though, is fans. Unlike the Hyper 212 and NH-D14, the radiator gets hot! Normally, when you touch an air cooler, it doesn't feel warm, even on load. It might even feel cold, although usually it'll feel just ... 'bleh' (you know, how metal absorbs heat and so when you touch metal that's room temperature, it'll feel cold, because it's sucking heat off of you, basically). Well, the Corsair H50 radiator definitely is very warm on load. Obviously, the water at work, and the H50 is limited by the radiator size and amount of water in the system. Quite simply, the stronger the fans you use, the better.

I imagine an H50 with a reservoir and radiator mod would drastically reduce temps (as evidenced by people who've done it).

I did a small test even, where I used the loud and powerful Blademaster instead of a Yate Loon Medium as Pull, and got a 3*C temp drop instantly. I'm sure the sky is the limit, and if you put, say, 2 x 140mm fans on this thing, it'll cool almost as well as high end air. I'd actually recommend for anyone using an H50, to do that.

The water block makes a sound, but it is very quiet. It's sort of a low, grinding sound, but it's not annoying at all and you'd have to stick your head in the case, just to barely hear it. Also, the H50 supposedly does not have as many issues with leakage as some other closed loops may have. You can always doublewrap it or something to prevent leakage anyways, I wouldn't worry about it.

The mounting system on the H50 is a little barbaric. In order to mount it, you have to screw in a metal clamp thing, but you can't screw it in all the way, and then you stick in the unwieldy waterblock, twist it, and then screw it all the way. All the while the metal clamp thing is loose, and you'll have to pull it up, or else gravity will make it go flat against the board and the rear retention plate will just sort of fall off... hard to explain.

It's not a big deal, I did plenty of remounts on the H50, but of the hyper 212+, NH-D14, stock cooler, and h50, it was the most difficult to deal with, when ironically it's supposed to be the easiest. This shouldn't dissuade you from buying the cooler at all, and it's not like it'll be hard to mount if you're new to building computers or anything. It's not like it's difficult to install, it's just unwieldy. Like doing it with a fat girl, you know where things go, it just takes a little more effort.

I was ultimately quite impressed with the cooling performance I got out of this thing, it's definitely an upgrade from a low end cooler like the Hyper 212+, but it's not a huge upgrade. If you need a slight step up, or just a few more degrees, from your low end cooler, ten this is a great step up, especially if you combine it with some improved paste and fans. You will also need at least 2 fans, if not 2 high power fans, to make this thing work for you, but going from a Hyper 212+, to an H50 with PK-3 and 2xYate Loon highs would probably give you a significant bump up if your Hyper 212+ was just barely getting too hot for your overclock.

I'm sure the H55/H60/Kuhler 620, with smooth tubing, is much easier to work with though, but I wouldn't pay more than $40 for a mid-range cooler in general (I believe some, like the 620, is on sale for $39 right now though).

The stock fans with all closed loops suck, and don't be fooled into 'closed loop is quiet'. You need powerful fans to dissipate the large amount of heat the water absorbs, it's not going to be any quieter than a tower (or much quieter, that is). If you are looking for quiet, look into something like an HR-02 Macho, or big block cooler (dual towers tend to make a lot more noise compared to single tower, and I mean with identical fan set-ups, and single tower runs better than dual on less/lower fans). My point is the H70 is crap, since it's worse than the H50 in apples to apples, but comes with 2 crap fans that won't be powerful enough, since you'll be buying your own fans for closed loop coolers anyways.

The point of the Corsair H50 test though, is to show the performance increase of any similar mid-range cooler over a low end cooler like the Hyper 212 - a True 120, megahalems, mugen, etc, are all worthy heatsinks are $40-50 or lower, and are not if they are more than that, give or take based on individual performance.

Finally, be careful mounting this thing. While you will scratch up any heatsink base if you try to touch it to metal without paste (like trying to see how it would contact the cpu before pasting...), with how tense the hoses are and how it mounts, if you don't keep a strong hold of the water block at all times during the mounting process, it'll just fling up and scrape on something or break someone's nose or your motherboard.

Noctua NH-D14
I really didn't think a high end cooler would do much, but I have to say that this dual tower, at $43 on ebay, was a better value than the Hyper 212+ at $19.99 I didn't quite expect such a significant decrease in temps, I was getting almost 15-20*C in some test configurations on just a Phenom II system. I guess if you look at bad reviews that test stock voltages, you wouldn't know these kinds of things though (cough frostytech/hardwaresecrets/th cough).

The heatsink is quite huge. I love how it looks, but then again I think all coolers like pretty rad, from the Hyper 212 to the NH-D14. The bigger , the cooler.. The base appears to even be pre-lapped, as it has a nice finish and glean to it (not quite mirror, there is a machining pattern, but it does have a reflection). It is ridiculously heavy though, and will make your case feel like a sack of bricks.

Mounting this heatsink is pretty simple, but you'll need a long screwdriver, since the screws are in between the 2 towers. Make sure your screwdriver is longer than the heatsink is tall. It also requires a bit of pressure to have the screw make contact. It's not as easy to install/uninstall as the Hyper 212+, but it isn't exactly difficult either. The fans also can be adjusted and raised/lowered for compatibility.

I'd strongly recommend any dual tower if you can afford one, under $60. You can usually find a NH-D14/K2/Assassin for sale somewhere or used for under $60, at which point they become better values than lower end and 'budget' coolers. Given the value of heatsinks, I'd say these are the true budget coolers. You might not need the performance of a dual tower, but if you do, don't hesitate to get one for under $60.

The fans are pretty quiet on this thing. I actually bought this as a NH-D14 SE2011 missing a mounting kit for my AM3 system for $43, and got a replacement 3rd fan mount, sticker, AM3 and LGA1155 mount, and pwm y spplitter, from noctua for free. The price was so low because it was missing a mounting kit, but Noctua gives you free mounting kits anyways. It's also noice that the SE2011 comes with PWM fans instead of regular fans. It's the same heatsink but comes with different mount at stock, and PWM fans.


Pictures
+ Show Spoiler +

Tight Fit, H50 Rear Mount Push/pull. You can see how the radiator isn't exactly 120x120.
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Top Mount. For science.
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This is how I ran all comparison tests. Temps were maybe 0.5*C best at top mount, but inconclusive evidence.
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Hyper 212+ Spread Method. This was like half a tube, what a jip. Don't use spread method.
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And this is spread method covering entire IHS. I dropped temps by another 5*C by simply taking a towel, and a single wipe over the base to get most of this crap off. As you can see the base of the heatsink in a few spots, that just tells you how thin this application was too.
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PK-1 Spread. This is around the optimal amount, although it will only over 1/2 to 2/3rd of the IHS, which is perfectly fine. You want to cool right above the die, not the entire IHS, as the heat doesn't dissipate across the entire IHS
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PK-2 Spread.
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PK-3 spread. Despite the most minimal coverage, the most significant results, including over other mounts
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PK-2 Remount. Identical results to previous mount, just making sure.
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NH-D14 PK-1. 2 Rice grains perpendicular to mounting pressure (2 screws on nh-d14 mount), is full spread across IHS. No difference than single rice grain...
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NH-D14. This is what way too much paste looks like before mounting. This ended up being so much paste that is caused about 4-5*C increase in temps over a proper, single rice grain method (or even double rice grain method). So keep this in mind next time you apply your paste and think you need a little more. It's very easy to use too much paste, but it's nearly impossible to use too little.
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*****
How to build a $500 i7-3770K Ultimate Computer:http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=392709 ******** 100% Safe Razorless Delid Method! http://www.overclock.net/t/1376206/how-to-delid-your-ivy-bridge-cpu-with-out-a-razor-blade/0_100
Release
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States4397 Posts
January 06 2013 01:45 GMT
#2
Never use spread method. Ever. Grain of rice in the center and mounting pressure is enough. Spread = air bubbles.
☺
Belial88
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States5217 Posts
January 06 2013 01:52 GMT
#3
Yes. That's pretty much one, of the many, points in my post. I'm sure your saying that in solidarity instead of to me lol.
How to build a $500 i7-3770K Ultimate Computer:http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=392709 ******** 100% Safe Razorless Delid Method! http://www.overclock.net/t/1376206/how-to-delid-your-ivy-bridge-cpu-with-out-a-razor-blade/0_100
Release
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States4397 Posts
January 06 2013 02:16 GMT
#4
yeah. There are still many people who use spread method and record themselves doing it.
☺
Sinensis
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States2513 Posts
January 06 2013 05:31 GMT
#5
If you're pro like me you use the smiley face method.
felisconcolori
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
United States6168 Posts
January 06 2013 21:37 GMT
#6
Hmm. I may need to redo the thermal paste on my (generally) stock "Gateway" PC. (Phenom 9550. I say "Gateway" because it's a refurb, and part of the refurb was putting more memory in it and a better graphics card. Later I upgraded the graphics card, and replaced the power supply with an Ultra modular, to reduce cable woes - between the double width graphics card, and the fairly respectable sized heatsink, three drives, and a case originally designed for none of that and onboard graphics, it's not pretty.) Really appreciate the thermal paste shots. I'm not an overclocker, but considering my stock Phenom X4 9550 is handling just this page, few other programs, in a 23C ambient room at 44C, I could probably use a reapplication of better than factory thermal paste.

One thing lacking in your post, aside from the Corsair - the other sinks in place in the case. Would be interesting to see, for comparison, the kind of real estate those systems require in a case. I have in the past looked at some passive and forced air heat sinks that would make decent door stops.
Yes, I email sponsors... to thank them. Don't post drunk, kids. My king, what has become of you?
Marti
Profile Joined August 2011
552 Posts
January 06 2013 22:02 GMT
#7
Mmh i never paid much attention to thermal paste, i only use arctic silver 5. Maybe i should get something else, i mostly invest in heatsink, but i don't even have much room to begin with ( blockbuster storm ).
#adun giveafuck - - - "Did this guy just randomly finger me?" - Sayle
Belial88
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States5217 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-01-07 04:30:17
January 07 2013 04:29 GMT
#8
On January 07 2013 06:37 felisconcolori wrote:
Hmm. I may need to redo the thermal paste on my (generally) stock "Gateway" PC. (Phenom 9550. I say "Gateway" because it's a refurb, and part of the refurb was putting more memory in it and a better graphics card. Later I upgraded the graphics card, and replaced the power supply with an Ultra modular, to reduce cable woes - between the double width graphics card, and the fairly respectable sized heatsink, three drives, and a case originally designed for none of that and onboard graphics, it's not pretty.) Really appreciate the thermal paste shots. I'm not an overclocker, but considering my stock Phenom X4 9550 is handling just this page, few other programs, in a 23C ambient room at 44C, I could probably use a reapplication of better than factory thermal paste.

One thing lacking in your post, aside from the Corsair - the other sinks in place in the case. Would be interesting to see, for comparison, the kind of real estate those systems require in a case. I have in the past looked at some passive and forced air heat sinks that would make decent door stops.


44*C isn't bad on a phenom, and idle/low load temps don't mean anything. Unless you are hitting 55-60+ under your heaviest applications, you shouldn't worry about it. Just get some sort of program that monitors temps (i recommend hwinfo, hwmonitor is good too and coretemp is no frills) and see if your max temp ever approaches the limit of the chip.

The recommended limits for temps for phenom is just manufacturer recommended, to stay under to avoid long term damage (so it's just fine to run 55-60*C 24/7 for years).

I'll add pics of the other coolers, how they fit in my case.



Mmh i never paid much attention to thermal paste, i only use arctic silver 5. Maybe i should get something else, i mostly invest in heatsink, but i don't even have much room to begin with ( blockbuster storm ).


I didn't get to do formal testing on AS5 so I didn't include them in the results, but AS5 is terrible. It was the shit when it came out 10 years ago but now it's a far outdated paste. You'll see a good 5+*C going with a modern, high quality paste, that's the same price (shin etsu, pk-3, phobya is a little more expensive than most pastes, mx-4 even, nh-t1, masscool, gelid gc). That's a pretty big difference when it comes to pastes, that's like going from stock to high end paste in some cases.

Then there’s Arctic Silver 5, the most popular and most acclaimed paste on the market. And it’s basically rubbish. In no metric is it better than MX-2, on average it’s over 2C worse than MX-2 and costs twice as much. MX-2, while it is great overall, isn’t even a great performing paste (it’s the baseline for good performance) and AS5 is far behind it. And on top of that, AS5 is capacitive, meaning it shouldn’t be used anywhere near exposed traces or SMD components (basically, should only be used on CPUs and GPUs with an IHS). Among the Arctic Silver pastes, Ceramique 2 is a better paste than AS5 in every way I can imagine and I can’t think of a situation where I would recommend Ceramique 2 to anybody. AS5 may be really popular, but in this day and age there’s no reason an informed consumer should buy it.

http://skinneelabs.com/arctic-silver-ceramique-review/5/


imo skinee has produced the most reliable TIM benches out there, it's a shame he's disappeared. Probably burned out from reseating each paste of the dozens upon dozens he tested, 20+ times each...
How to build a $500 i7-3770K Ultimate Computer:http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=392709 ******** 100% Safe Razorless Delid Method! http://www.overclock.net/t/1376206/how-to-delid-your-ivy-bridge-cpu-with-out-a-razor-blade/0_100
Marti
Profile Joined August 2011
552 Posts
January 07 2013 08:38 GMT
#9
Well that just goes to showing that the popularity is completely unrelated to the quality / reliability of the product. I just kind of assumed it was decent since so many people were buying it and not giving it bad ratings. Good timing on your blog, i've ordered a new CPU and i was thinking of investing in some thermal paste and a new heatsink. Although as i said i don't have much room for a big heatsink and i've already set my sights on a cheap xigmatek, i'll buy ceramique 2 instead of AS5.
#adun giveafuck - - - "Did this guy just randomly finger me?" - Sayle
Belial88
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States5217 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-01-07 19:12:02
January 07 2013 19:09 GMT
#10
If it's possible, I'd recommend you avoid Ceramique 2 as well. Ceramique 2 is slightly better than AS5, but as linked in that skinneelabs post/quote above, it's also a terrible paste compared to modern pastes.

What kind of Xigmatek are you looking at? There are so many heatsinks out there, and so many sales and deals, heatsinks is purely about what price they are. I never saw a Xigmatek at a good price, but of course that could change due to a single $5 off card or free shipping.

Also, where are you buying? It's hard to beat the fact you can buy 1.5g tubes from ebay for like $4, a 1.5g tube was enough to do more than 5 mounts and still have quite a bit left over. Plenty of places other than ebay offer 1.5g tubes though.

Why wouldn't you have room for a big heatsink? I always hear people question if they can fit in X case or Y ram, but it's pretty rare to have compatibility issues with heatsinks. You can always move ram to a different slot, remove heatspreaders, raise the fan up, cases are designed for heatsinks...

If you post what case, ram, and cooler you were looking at, or why you have fitting concerns, I can probably help you out. If you are using AS5 as a baseline, you would not only get a better value using better paste, but it's very possible you'd get a bigger performance boost using a different $4 tube (rather than anything more expensive), than spending an extra $40 on a heatsink (new/standard prices). As shown in my review, the difference between a Hyper 212+ and an H50 (which has dropped in prices, but a month ago was $60+ new) was as small as the difference between PK-1, some of the best paste around, and PK-3, a better paste.
How to build a $500 i7-3770K Ultimate Computer:http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=392709 ******** 100% Safe Razorless Delid Method! http://www.overclock.net/t/1376206/how-to-delid-your-ivy-bridge-cpu-with-out-a-razor-blade/0_100
Marti
Profile Joined August 2011
552 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-01-08 00:19:03
January 07 2013 19:50 GMT
#11
Well i've got my eyes on the Apache III CD903 ( 10 euros + ship ), i'm gonna get an e6750 to replace my e5200 which, as of late, has given me lots of trouble. I'm probably gonna buy from a french website as that is where i currently live, and i kind of want it fast, but i've ordered the e6750 through priceminister if i recall ( most websites don't sell Brand New socket 775 CPUs anymore ).

I could play starcraft 2 without troubles when i first got my e5200, Framerate was stable enough that i didn't notice any significant drop ( i use a 160 Hz CRT monitor, capped at 120 for quake and SC2 ) UNLESS i played some fun 4v4 @ norush 15 / turtle into maxed out armies and watch all of it die on the screen.
I've already bought a Xigmatek to replace my original GPU fan ( it was god awful, i actually thought of trying to send it back and get a refund first as it wasn't very eifficient and was incredibly noisy. I am fairly satisfied with my xigmatek as the temperatures remain stable at lowest possible speed (( Yeah i bought something to regulate the speed just in case )). So the cooling is decent and the noise minimal. )

I don't mind trying another brand but as i said this xig is only 10 euros, and it really only is to replace the one that came with the cpu, i'm not looking for particularly good cooling. I also don't mind underclocking the cpu if needed, since my e5200 could give me the framerate i wanted for SC2 and the other games i play aren't as demanding ( i actually could play crysis with 70 fps @ 800 x 600, unless i was in the snow then it would drop to 30, that was freezing like crazy ).

The reason i can't fit a large heatsink, aside from my case being the a+ case blockbuster storm ( as mentionned earlier ) is because my power supply uses fairly large cables ( there is some extra protection on them which makes them like, 4 times thicker than unprotected one or something. That also makes them very rigid. ) and with my current cpu fan it's difficult to even arrange them so that they don't touch the fan.

As for the paste, the website i'm thinking of buying from offers NTH1 PK1 PK3 STG1 MX2 MX4 or arctic silver / ceramique 2. But apparently the cpu i'm buying has some paste already, by that i mean that i didn't even bother asking if it came with a thermal paste sringe or if the guy just put some paste on it before shipping, as i actually was in a hurry, there was another, more interesting offer ( same cpu cheaper and barely even used ) which i missed by a few hours, and as this one was the second most interesting, i went with it without worrying too much, but i have a friend who has some arctic silver 5 leftover which he absolutely doesn't need, and i was consequently thinking of using it. Now i'm thinking i'm probably going to buy a new heatsink since my cpu still has the one that came with the box, but at the same time i don't want to invest too much, as my E5200 was enough for me when it was still brand new. And since i'm buying a new heatsink i might as well order some decent thermal paste ( it'll reduce shipment cost, and also if it turns out i need something better than AS5 anyway i don't want to have to wait another 5 days to be able to use my cpu )
As for the ram i have 2x2 Go of Gskill but since i'm still using windows XP i can only use 3 of them techincally.
I really don't want to buy too much as, when i'll feel like i need something else i'll probably invest in a new computer altogether ( this is the last socket 775 cpu i'll buy, unless it dies on me almost instantly ) . And also as i said i don't actually need more computing power at the moment.

I think i'm gonna go with the pk3, unless you tell me the zalman is actually decent. ( It has like 40 reviews, 5 stars, but i'm wondering if it isn't because people are too lazy and enjoy the pencil more than the actual performances. In comparaison, the other products don't even reach half the reviews. But i also remember that i bought a zalman headset, very cheap, and i was just blown away by the quality / price so i don't know, you tell me, ever heard of the Zalman STG1 ? )

edit : other productS, also sorry for wall of text
edit 2 : i've been looking around and the zalman seems like its even less eifficient than the AS5. Which doesn't surprise me all that much.
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/coolers/display/thermal-interface-roundup_10.html
#adun giveafuck - - - "Did this guy just randomly finger me?" - Sayle
Belial88
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States5217 Posts
January 08 2013 00:59 GMT
#12
Unless you are overclocking your GPU (granted, you should), just change the fan profile so it isn't ramping up to 100* unless it's really really. I flashed a differnet bios on my GPU so I could push 1.3v (the software bios limit is 1.0897 and recommended limit is around 1.2, mind you) and with the twin frozr ii heatsink I wasn't pushing past the 80's even at 80% fan speed.

Also, try lubing your fan. you'd be surprised how often a fan that's loud, just needs some lube, or conversely, a fan has gotten much louder because it's run out of lube. I lubed all my fans in my system, about 11 fans, a few days ago and it made a huge difference. Sounds that you would never think is because of dried out fans, fans that were already quiet to begin with, things like pinging and whines that didn't sound anything like a fan out of lube, all got fixed. Just a drop of mineral oil in the back.

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/coolers/display/thermal-interface-roundup_10.html#sect0

I trust Xbit labs reviews, and they show the zalman paste being pretty poor, worse than as5 by a considerable amount. Also, when googling it all results come up from 2008 or later, so that's a sign it's probably not too up to date... core2duos, stg1, what website is this? There's some older gen parts I'd love to buy but I can't ever find a site that carries this kind of stuff...

The reason i can't fit a large heatsink, aside from my case being the a+ case blockbuster storm ( as mentionned earlier ) is because my power supply uses fairly large cables ( there is some extra protection on them which makes them like, 4 times thicker than unprotected one or something. That also makes them very rigid. ) and with my current cpu fan it's difficult to even arrange them so that they don't touch the fan.


You can't use cable ties or hold them down somewhere else?

I think i'm gonna go with the pk3, unless you tell me the zalman is actually decent. ( It has like 40 reviews, 5 stars, but i'm wondering if it isn't because people are too lazy and enjoy the pencil more than the actual performances. In comparaison, the other products don't even reach half the reviews. But i also remember that i bought a zalman headset, very cheap, and i was just blown away by the quality / price so i don't know, you tell me, ever heard of the Zalman STG1 ? )


If you could link, or tell me, the prices of the pastes on that site, I could tell you what would be worthwhile, but if they are all the same price, then yea pk-3 is the best of the lot. Pk-1 would probably be 2nd but mx-4 and nh-t1 are decent pastes too, and the other pastes not worth considering at all.

Are your temps even that bad? Do you even need better than stock cooling, or better than stock paste? I'm a bit confused, sounds like you are just wasting money.
How to build a $500 i7-3770K Ultimate Computer:http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=392709 ******** 100% Safe Razorless Delid Method! http://www.overclock.net/t/1376206/how-to-delid-your-ivy-bridge-cpu-with-out-a-razor-blade/0_100
Marti
Profile Joined August 2011
552 Posts
January 08 2013 01:58 GMT
#13
On January 08 2013 09:59 Belial88 wrote:
Are your temps even that bad? Do you even need better than stock cooling, or better than stock paste? I'm a bit confused, sounds like you are just wasting money.

Well at times the motherboard emits a sound and my computer freezes ... so yeah it's That bad. It used to be fine, nowadays it's only silent when idle but back then the fan wouldn't increase its speed when in burn.
I don't need much, just a little bit better than original heatsink and thermal paste, hence why i want to adapt the budget to the needs. I'm replacing my e5200 by an E6750 because the cpu fan drastically increases speed when i watch HQ streams / have multiple flash applications running / play SC2 with two maxed out armies on the map, and straight up freezes when i go above that ( especially video / audio conversion, this has become impossible ).
I'll have the cpu today or tomorrow, it'll be used but used as in not brand new, quality will be good. After this, the next time i change my hardware, it'll proably be to buy a whole new computer altogether, and i probably won't keep anything i'm currently using aside from some of the hard drives.
So yes, i belive i need something better than the original heatsink, but at the same time i'm not going to be doing any OCing on it, i just want it to last and not be noisy. Hence why aluminium is fine, and i'm actually thinking of using arctic silver 5 as thermal paste.
And no, i really can't do much of anything for the cables.
All i'm wondering right now is if i should get some thermal paste other than the arctic silver 5 which i already have ( no need to order ) or if it really is worth getting another brand, but i'm not convinced
#adun giveafuck - - - "Did this guy just randomly finger me?" - Sayle
Belial88
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States5217 Posts
January 08 2013 02:34 GMT
#14
Is it getting hot? Just sounds like it's old, not hot. what are temp monitors saying? Get hwinfo...

You should also just lube your fans. You can fix a lot of the loudness just by lubing up fans, it's very easy to do and cheap.

Nowadays, stock pastes aren't going to be much worse than as5. And you should just change your fan settings, if your temps aren't too hot, then you can just tell your fan to be quieter (speedfan, bios, etc).

really dont think you need better than the original heatsink unless your temps are too high, i mean i am not next to your computer. your just buying subpar stuff, pretty much the exact opposite of the conclusions reached in my benches and tests.

I didn't realize you already had as5. Just keep it. Your asking questions that people ask when overclocking their phenom's and i5's with high levels of voltage, not stock core2duos... A loud fan is not because you have a hot heatsink, it's because your fan needs lubrication, you need a better fan, or your fan profile is set to ramp up too high too quickly.
How to build a $500 i7-3770K Ultimate Computer:http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=392709 ******** 100% Safe Razorless Delid Method! http://www.overclock.net/t/1376206/how-to-delid-your-ivy-bridge-cpu-with-out-a-razor-blade/0_100
Marti
Profile Joined August 2011
552 Posts
January 08 2013 03:27 GMT
#15
Mmh i guess i'll try to do some cleaning and possibly lube the fans. I'm just willing to buy the slightly-better-than-stock products and even possibly underclock the cpu to guarantee this config will last till the end of the year, ( then i'll most likely invest a lot in a brand new comp ). And as i'm having heat issues with my current cpu and heatsink, i don't mind investing a bit of extra money.

The loud fan is because its speed increases. Its speed increases because when in burn, the heat goes up like crazy, to the point that the motherboard speaker is making constant ''beep'' sound, and the pc sometimes even freezes a couple of seconds. Disabling the speaker or forcing it to stay at low speeds won't solve the heat problem.

I'm not going to invest a lot into a heatsink, but with the thermal paste, given that a good thermal paste doesn't cost much compared to a good heatsink, and given that my case is pretty small to begin with, i just figured i could be ''cost efficient'' with my money if i invested a bit into thermal paste and a bit into a low quality heatsink.
On January 08 2013 11:34 Belial88 wrote:
dont think you need better than the original heatsink unless your temps are too high

But thanks anyway, i'll look into lube.
#adun giveafuck - - - "Did this guy just randomly finger me?" - Sayle
Belial88
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States5217 Posts
January 09 2013 00:02 GMT
#16
CPUs are built like tanks, and come with 3 year warranties as it is. Despite how old your Core 2 Duo is, even at stock configurations it should last 10+ years (obviously none has been around that long, but they are still running just as strong today, a dying CPU would show stability issues years before it'd die, it's more likely you get software issues and registry degradation way before the CPU is a problem).

You shouldn't need to underclock it... a year is nothing for these things. You could overclock it and be confident it'll be safe for a long time. You are talking components where people will crank an extra .3, .4 volts and it still runs years later just fine.

You keep saying you have heat issues, but I really doubt you are getting heat issues at stock... if you could be a bit more descriptive, please. Unless it's running at above something like 80-90*C at load, you are fine (idle temps don't mean anything). Obviously you might want to be under the 50's in idle, but i really doubt you are having heat issues unless you got something like a dead fan on your heatsink (not a dying one, one that just doesn't move at all) or it isn't seated properly (like it's hanging off...).

If your fan is too loud for you, you can use a program like speedfan to reduce it. Your running stock, even if it was mildly overclocked, as long as you aren't reaching that 80*C limit on the core2duo (to be technical it's like 81*c, I could look it up more specifically but i doubt you are getting above 70, right?), you are fine. Lower the fan speed on load until your temps start to go past, i dont know, 50, 60, 70, whatever (whats it even hitting now?).

Beeping motherboard speaker could be anything.

I dont want to give wrong advice here because you really aren't saying much about your computer though... i mean a normally operating computer shouldnt have any issues, and just replacing a cpu if you got a motherboard problem or something else disastrous, isn't going to fix it. Getting a new heatsink or thermal paste, probably won't fix it either. or it may, you need to be descriptive... i would recommend not tinkering with it unless you know what you are doing and have some monitoring programs up, which it does not sound like you are doing.

The problem is you are looking at such low end heatsinks, and the prices on that site are so high for pastes, that yea, buying a thermal paste would not be a good idea in your position. PK3 is awesome, but for what, 15 euros, it's a huge ripoff. The as5 might be a rip off too, the prices were so jacked up on that site and the quantities they offer are quite odd, you sure you can't find a different site? Might just be a euro thing, but I'm sure other sites exist, it's not even about finding a good price, just find a 1.5g tube of pk3, no need to buy a 10g tube of it...
How to build a $500 i7-3770K Ultimate Computer:http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=392709 ******** 100% Safe Razorless Delid Method! http://www.overclock.net/t/1376206/how-to-delid-your-ivy-bridge-cpu-with-out-a-razor-blade/0_100
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