|
On September 23 2012 19:23 Plexa wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2012 18:54 imBLIND wrote:
At this point though, I don't have any ideas for terran that even sound good to me. They're trying so hard to make HotS the BW of vanilla SC, but except for the valkyrie and spells/skills that would be OP with smart AI, everything is already in the Terran arsenal.
I think Blizzard is going to have to introduce a new mechanic for Terran rather than a new unit in order to compete with what Protoss and Zerg currently have and will get in HotS. Maybe some sort of universal salvage ability? Upgradable skills (mammoth tank from C&C: Generals)? Attack mules? I can't think of anything that wouldn't break the game, while not being completely useless at the same time. Or they could just make Ravens usable. That would be like getting a new unit in itself! Show nested quote +On September 23 2012 19:19 D4V3Z02 wrote:
Protoss can delay fights with zergs already with forcefields, phase shield sounds so strong. Phase shield isn't great, it has the area of a forcefield and costs 75 mana for a 5second immunity to fungal. Not so great when your army is massive. But its big enough to counter fungal if done properly. Good in the right hands, very average in the wrong hands. Forcefields lose their effect as the game goes on and sentries become dead supply.
Yes, maybe I have to see it ingame to judge it :/
|
I think it's important to make a distinction between skill cap's on abilities/units vs decision making. Fungal growth is still a terrible ability, and there is already a dynamic between pre-splitting your units before engaging. Phase shield will be very similar to pre-splitting units. The only difference is you can retain everything with phase shield, where as pre-splitting still results in some losses.
Really disappointed that Blizzard made fungal growth instant cast instead of a projectile with travel time.
|
On September 23 2012 18:44 Plexa wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2012 16:17 Vindicare605 wrote:
One thing missing from this list slightly is what the Tempest potentially brings to late PvZ and PvP. Its role as a long distance anti-massive unit could potentially do a lot in changing the way those late game match ups are played out, which is something I'm really hoping for. I would have loved to have talked about this properly, but with its ridiculous cost I haven't found many situations where I can use them. The one PvP I had where I used them was kind of weird since neither of us where really sure what to do. In the end my opponent won (without tempest) because he got mothership and I forgot to (doh). Tempests killed his mothership pretty quickly but I lost a lot of army because of it. Also my brief playtime with them suggests that people will work out the optimal number of tempests to have (I think 4 so they can 2 shot Colossus) and have that as a standard addition to any protoss lategame army. Although with that said, Tempests really don't kill Colossus fast enough for them to be effective in battle - just from a distance. Show nested quote +On September 23 2012 18:25 Tppz! wrote:
Only thing that I dont like is that there is not much by terran but maybe we had a lot of interaction in TvX in WoL already Yeah I don't like this either. Battle hellion is in a confusing place what being biological but a mech unit? It would make x10 more sense to bring back the firebat if that is the direction they want to go. I can see them being a balance problem down the road as well because their splash damage at the moment is insane, so 4 bhellions in your mineral line will kill almost everything whereas 4 hellions won't necessarily. If you overnerf the splash then battle hellions lose a lot of their utility, so I really think its time to split it into a different unit.
The Firebat should be brought back IMHO. And the hellion scrapped and redesigned into a new unit.
|
I only wholeheartedly agree with the first part of that video you linked, the rest seems to contradict itself/bring up things i disagree with.
However, I do like how you showed that unit interactions make the game interesting, besides just units. I woulddare say if you wanted to find a good interaction from wol you would just say marine vs stalker early game.
Good blog
|
On September 23 2012 20:05 acrimoneyius wrote:
I think it's important to make a distinction between skill cap's on abilities/units vs decision making. Fungal growth is still a terrible ability, and there is already a dynamic between pre-splitting your units before engaging. Phase shield will be very similar to pre-splitting units. The only difference is you can retain everything with phase shield, where as pre-splitting still results in some losses.
Really disappointed that Blizzard made fungal growth instant cast instead of a projectile with travel time.
Yeah, that was a great idea. I dislike that that they took it back. Someone please suggest it to them in their HoTS beta forums - that alone would make it a great spell.
|
Plexa, you're just too smart
|
oh wow i hadnt thought about this at all
awesmoe write up
|
Someone mentioned it somewhere but I'd die to have the reaper as the bio-vulture of HotS having some type of mines. Also, how come they are not playing around with the various d-matrix type of abilities they gave to the mothership (? i think)? Raven could also have some defensive spell like that, and have the terrible little cannon removed.
|
ravens usable and viable?
...i guess one can dream :'(
|
On September 23 2012 15:39 Plexa wrote:
The Colossus vs the Viper/Swarm Host
The Colossus is going to have its skillcap raised come HotS. It's interaction with Swarm Hosts and Vipers is something to really look forward to.
1) vs Swarm Host.
There are a lot of strong early game swarm host builds in HotS right now. Fact is, they're good. And without some kind of splash (like a Colossus) chances are your base is going to be whittled away in no time. Colossi have enough range to start making dents in Host lines and introduce an interesting Observer/Colossus vs Host/Corruptor(or muta) battle. This is because if you aimlessly try to attack with your whole army chances are you will lose a lot, and then the next waves of locusts will simply finish you off. You need to be picking things off with Colossus (and observers) and Colossus (and observers) need to be protected by stalkers without wandering in range of locusts.
This dynamic is incredibly exciting and beats the BW lurker contain for entertainment value anyday (fuck lurker contains, seriously, they're so boring). Swarms of locusts force engagement, and that Colossus/Host dance that ensues adds a lot of entertainment value to the game.
except that locusts are just as susceptible to FF as every other zerg unit, perhaps even more so due to their extremely slow speed, and have even less health than a hydra. and right, they cant shoot past the FF because of their reduced range either.
so what really changes when facing a sentry/colo ball?
|
Plexa gives us hope for hots ♥
|
Abduct vs Collosis could make for some pretty cool micro battles I think.
It will actually hurt some Protoss players that the Collosis can walk overtop of your army. If they didn't walk over other units they would naturally sit at the back of the deathball where they would be protected. If you let your army bunch up Vipers are going to jack your shit now.
This will also force reactive Blinks to snipe the Viper before it can steal the Collosis (similar to when fighting Vikings).
Lastly, depending on the Zergs composition.. it might force earlier High Templar so you can use Feedback to defend vs Vipers or else risk Blinking your Stalkers in and getting Fungalled to death.
More micro and less a-moving means the best Protoss players will excel. It should add a better dynamic to the matchup
|
You have a very genius view on the game and know what you are talking about. I am glad about this blog being a reply to everything wrong that was said by filter (though no offense, he makes very valid points, but his solution is 13 years old). Point is, while filter suggests HotS should just introduce the brood war units, you explain here that the increase of skillcap happens regardless of the unit type introduced.
No matter how madly unbalanced a unit may seem at the beginning, a thriving professional scene will come up with a solution. Only once that solution is cost-balanced can you speak of a fun game mechanic and enjoyable gameplay - both to watch and play.
Although I was heartbroken by the failliure that is Diablo 3, I know there are still tons of talented and intelligent people at Blizzard working on SC2:HotS and I am willing to trust their judgement on units that initially may seem like a horrible choice.
Thanks for this good blog.
|
5/5
On September 23 2012 16:16 Jumperer wrote:
Blizzard needs to hire Plexa.
In a more detailed response, I don't have HotS beta and thus it is hard for me to determine the current metagame, however this analysis is very good and very accurate. Plexa never ceases to amaze me.
|
On September 23 2012 19:23 Plexa wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2012 18:54 imBLIND wrote:
At this point though, I don't have any ideas for terran that even sound good to me. They're trying so hard to make HotS the BW of vanilla SC, but except for the valkyrie and spells/skills that would be OP with smart AI, everything is already in the Terran arsenal.
I think Blizzard is going to have to introduce a new mechanic for Terran rather than a new unit in order to compete with what Protoss and Zerg currently have and will get in HotS. Maybe some sort of universal salvage ability? Upgradable skills (mammoth tank from C&C: Generals)? Attack mules? I can't think of anything that wouldn't break the game, while not being completely useless at the same time. Or they could just make Ravens usable. That would be like getting a new unit in itself! Show nested quote +On September 23 2012 19:19 D4V3Z02 wrote:
Protoss can delay fights with zergs already with forcefields, phase shield sounds so strong. Phase shield isn't great, it has the area of a forcefield and costs 75 mana for a 5second immunity to fungal. Not so great when your army is massive. But its big enough to counter fungal if done properly. Good in the right hands, very average in the wrong hands. Forcefields lose their effect as the game goes on and sentries become dead supply.
Oh mai god man. Imagine the possiblities if they actually purposely balanced the raven for lategame. You know, like tweaking the raven energy for the seeker missile like they accidentally did at the start of the HOTS beta.
:D Honestly, it's quite sad to believe they "accidentally" balanced TvZ lategame by accident and then they revert the change.
|
always a nice reading, thx
|
On September 23 2012 17:02 Ideas wrote:I think the entertainment value of lurker contains depend on the players and the map. Some maps (like sniper ridge) are way too abusive for lurker contains and lead to drawn-out unbreakable contains, but a map like fighting spirit (where protoss can take a 3rd and break out through a back entrence) it can be pretty cool. I'll always remember that game on fighting spirit where JD lurker contained kal for like 10 minutes and then kal broke out the back-way and almost killed jaedong (and then jaedong came back with insane dark swarms off of like 1 defiler and killed kal). Also corruptors shooting at observers isn't nearly as cool as scourge sniping observers 
do you still just come into sc2 threads to snipe it? 2 years after the game is out and after professional BW has had its last televised finals? Shouldn't you start trying to appreciate sc2 for what it is, or stop coming to this website entirely? I also remember that game, i think it was an MSL semifinal, but it doesn't prevent me from seeing that swarmhosts could add an entirely new, perhaps even more exciting type of games.
|
Hmm, I like your points Plexa, they're very interesting. Increasing the skill cap of units and combining them with others does seem to add a lot more to the game.
|
I still don't like phase shield and would rather see fungal growth being changed (together with so many other stuff)
|
I agree but from watching Hots Streams the only real gameplay changer is Swarmhost and Viper PvP and PvT look the same Protoss sitting around defending tell 200 then going. Only seen a couple cool recall plays on NonY's stream.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
