Day 1(ish): I have been stoppign and relasping for some time now. These were before i found the reddit subforum and i had no desire to stop. I had some other shit in life to take care of so i couldn't really PMO as often actually.... fuck it. i was gonna write a diary/ keep logs of my progress but here is my story.
it's a story about dopamine abuse and addiction.
I'm a progamer for SC2. I'm 20 years old and i've been struggling with addiction for 2+ years, but i didn't even know it until recently. I have also been a college drop out for about 2 years now. I occasionally muster up enough willpower to take a few classes each term, I've dropped them all a couple of times and when i ran out of drops, i would just straight up stop going to class, and fail the course.
i always convinced myself that everything was okay , and that i would just "do better next term" Im not even sure of how far my gpa has fallen, probably 2.5 or less ?
This is a stark constant to how i started my college career, at 17 years old. I was a 3.5 GPA Chemical engineering student, hobbies included regular gym , socializing and guitar. I was at the top of my class and was approached with many scholarships and possible internship programs from my academic advisors. I was also extremely EXTREMELY cocky and sure of myself. I had/have a wonderful GF and relationship. Seriously our relationship was fucking perfect back then. We fought probably one time. The fight went something like "Awww, i guess this is our first fight~~! <3" after a couple of minutes and then we made out for an hour or something.
Also my drive to accomplish things and willpower were VERY high.
However, as for most kids my age i was also INCREDIBLY stupid.
it started out with me taking 18 hours my 2nd semester. my advisor suggested this to me as well, so i felt okay about it
Yes i know it sounds really fucking stupid, but let me assure u the addiction and side effects were very real. Basically, I abused my bodys natural dopamines to temporarily deal with school , at great cost.
This alone started my eventual decline downwards , i saw my grades falling and my motivation fading. My interest numbing and my mind weak. I become VERY socially anxious and had very very few friends because of it. I was at a great university with a TON of excellent social media but I just did not give a fuck about any of it.
I struggled for a long time before i finally dropped out. i still tried hard and adapted to getting A's with very little motivation/willpower due to my dopamine abuse but eventually failed
Eventually i had to resort to cheating, out of necessity. I would scout out not only a really smart person, but also a very trusting one. Most asian guys(not females at all) are actually completely fine with cheating, so long as they got their precious A, and they felt i was helping them. Also they’re smart
I would bluff and pretend i knew so much that the other person would be inclined to "check" their answers with mine on a test, but in actuality i would just copy everything they had, while pretending to agree with everything. I would probably help them with only a couple, and copy / pretend to agree with the rest.
I would know a few things usually, and at first i would still study but eventually i figured out that i didn't need to study at all. It got to the point where if i wasn't able to cheat, i would have failed.
Another example is that, I figured out pretty easily that there are multiple sections with with tests at varying times.
If i was lucky, i could obtain the test from the previous section and therefore write my essay and short answers beforehand. Once i was so lazy i just straight up plagiarized an entire wikipedia article, just formatting it to the questions and got an A.
I think one of the worst things ive ever done was fake a death of my family. I had overslept and missed the final, although i had a B in the course. Naturally i was just offered a replacement exam BUT i couldn't do it because i hadn't studied at all, and there was NO ONE to cheat off of like i usually do So, if i went and took the test solo i would have definitely failed. So i manipulated my teacher, giving him a sob story and several reasons why i couldn't take the test. he refused at first, but i bluffed and said that i would have to drop out of school anyways(ain't karma a bitch), and that i didn't even care about my grade anymore. He didn't reply , and kept his stance on me coming in to take the final, so i figured at that point i would just fail the course. Acceptable loss, i thought in my mind already that i would just tell my parents that i overslept( which was true) and missed the final. They would understand
However, unbeknownst to me, he had a very kind heart, and decided to exempt me from the final, and i was pleased to see i had a B in the course when grades were posted. Im not proud of any of this by any means, but it is what it is It goes without saying I would skip classes and cheat on every assignment in any way I could think of.
around this time i dropped out of school and took up a progaming lifestyle. It's an interesting feeling, to let yourself down. I think the way i coped with it was that it was okay if it was just me that i affected , but i refused to let anyone else down. developing this mentality was one of the few ways that i managed to get back on the right track. But this part of the story is where it got really, really bad.
As it is common with people who abuse PMO and dopamine, i escalated it because i was so heavily addicted , i need MORE. The stronger the orgasm , the more dopamine is released.
To quote an article
when you masturbate to porn often, once a day minimum or spend long times a day watching porn and stimulating yourself, think about hours a day, you'll have a very constant high amount of dopamine rushing through your brain. because your brain always tries to normalize, it will counter this by lowering the amount of dopamine receivers, thus making you need more stimulation to reach the same effect. this is the same as and drug junky using a dopamine based drug like heroine, cocaine, speed ect ect ect.
Yes I spent hours every day looking for my fix(seemed normal enough ). Slowly i discovered better sites, fetishes i never knew i had, was even bi for a while( i am actually completely straight...i think) I even got into some really REALLY fucked up shit, and it brings me great pain and a whole lot of embarrassment to say this but, stuff such as rape, torture, snuff, and pedophilia. it started out as just reading stories about it, mind you extremely erotic stories but yes, just text. i would read purely for normal fetishes but slowly i became desensitized to the more vulgar and abusive shit in the stories. this site was called asstr.org and it is the biggest pile of shit i've ever laid my eyes upon, but back then I would read for hours upon hours. And hell I wasn’t going to school at that point , I had all the time in the world. I joined a site called motherless shortly after being desensitized to reality, and found a bunch of people who were very similar to me at the time. So naturally i began to think Oh this is just a fucked up fetish, that LOTS of people have. It's okay. man how i wish i could go back in time and slap my silly ass but you can see clearly where how im a fucking retard kicks in. I hate myself for all of this but what can u do but try to improve yourself.
However, i found Starcraft II. I had dabbled a bit in LoL for a year before that, i was EzPzLmnSqz for those who might remember me, but eventually the game bored me.
Now starcraft was such an interesting and challenging game that it actually slowly weaned me off of PMO, because of the sheer amount of time and dedication you are REQUIRED to spend to even be competitively relevant. Also interestingly enough, being successful as a progamer is a LOT about personality , willpower, mindset , everything. and i slowly improved myself every day, without realizing it.
I eventually got good enough to where i was sponsored to go to events, such as MLG and IPL . They paid for my flights, hotel , gave me the sickest keyboards and gear on the market But when i was at these lans. I COULD NOT PMO . jesus christ i was literally fiending for it and the first chance i had alone in the hotel room , i would go for it. The rooms had 6+ people for 2 beds usually, so I literally had to duck out during the event or something. This lead me on a upward spiral of self improvement and everything was probably gonna get better And then i found weed. Oh my lordy did that shit got me horny as fuck and made me even worse. The terrible thing is that i knew it made me worse but i researched it extensively and literally found that weed was the most harmless shit on the planet, so i felt okay about it , eventually i would start picking up weed by the fucking ounce I’ve probably dropped over a thousand on bud, financed by my prize money from progaming of course.
Also, remember that perfect relationship of sunshine and kisses ? It went straight down the gutter. This was all delayed because we had a long distance relationship, but eventually when i dropped out of engineering, and came back home and switched majors we fought constantly and eventually i broke her will and she become very paranoid and insecure. I even considered cheating on her after all that, and came really close to it but luckily i never have and she found it somewhere in her kind heart to give me another chance.
This is where I started trying to slowly improve myself, I took up going to the gym and trying to improve socially, mind you im still completely clueless about PMO and its effects on me, so im still doing that and progaming.
But finally, i found this subforum on reddit http://www.reddit.com/r/NoFap/ and became educated on PMO, and the dopamine abuse that goes with it, and everything suddenly clicked.
Anyways, Im glad to say this is Day 3 for me and heres a small log of the changes i've noted since completely stopping PMO.
-Noted depression, ie withdrawal, but quickly overcome -Still lazy, but my willpower seems to be growing drastically. -Worked out, noted improvement on cardio machine -upper back is randomly sore as fuck. probably due to my new developments with guitar actually without my overload of dopamine i am also more capable of emotions and my senses in general. Like said above, i can feel pain more , i've also noticed that my eyesight has improved, like I can see better in the dark. Also, more time spent playing guitar, and things ive been putting off for months spent like 2 hours cleaning my car, took it for repairs at the shop, rotated tires etc , something i've literally been putting off for months, my brakes were squeaking so loud that u could hear them over my engine. And of course, Im writing this article
randomly hugged my gf. feelings have grown stronger for her, and i express that i love her more often i also linked her many articles on how PMO affects relationships negatively http://www.yourbrainonporn.com/node/79 this enabled her to say she felt often that the only reason we were together was for sex i apologized profusely, and redoubled my already strong efforts to stop PMO altogether If you read the article above, you will see that PMO in extreme cases such as my own will actually almost render u incapable of love. I have to say this is entirely true and i suppose love ( and the chemical it produces- oxytocin, which counteracts the effects of dopamine or w.e, I don’t understand it completely) is literally why i have conquered my dopamine abuse. I would like to add that I’ve stopped smoking weed as of today, but I don’t bear any ill will against it, but its obviously not for me. Thanks for reading.
update:
On June 17 2012 07:09 HeavOnEarth wrote: Just told my dad about everything i've been going through(he didnt know about my school hiatus, or cheating, But he did know about weed) + Show Spoiler [storyaboutbeingdisowned] +
JK, he was really supportive and happy that i was improving myself.
i also told him in the end i was able to figure everything out and improve myself was because of how i was raised by him and you shouldve seen his face haha . his face lit up like a christmas tree and started fiddling his hands in happiness needless to say quitting is gonna be a breeze for me now
I will like to revise , everything in the blog is still true, but it wasnt completely because of dopamine abuse. It was depression- actually still not entirely sure what brought it on but this definitely contributed
he other big problem with porn of course is the intense sense of internal inconsistency it gives you. What they call 'cognitive dissoance' in that maybe you have feminist values, but you get off to something that is really abusive. That is a fast track to stress, depression and helplessness.
Anyways, as i slowly as i got good at guitar(was able to play songs ive dreamed of playing for ages), came back home and was around my family( i missed them a lot, and i was distant from them since my teenage years of rebelZZ), enjoyed IPLs and MLGs because of progaming, so on so forth.
chef: What'll make you feel good is when you start looking back at how you spent your time and being ok with it
this is entirely true. i was a little depressed progamer, until it brought me lots of friends , even money, and people actually gave me respect and adoration when i said i was a progamer? Shit definitely lifted me up. But not for the reasons i said in my blog
Of course im no fool, i had 100% had a problem with PMO and weed and i'll avoid them at all costs, and honestly who needs it. I'll drink every now n then at partys and mlgs so forth, but life is better without it.
On June 19 2012 21:08 HeavOnEarth wrote: I've figured out the reason i suffered depression. When i was in my academy in high school, one of my best friends was involved in a hacking scandal. He changed grades, etc, and eventually the school was required to bring in private detectives to investigate. Being one of his closest friends, naturally i knew everything, and he had even changed some of my grades without me knowing, or at least i just thought he was kidding when he asked me. Nonetheless, i was sent to CAEP(not expelled like he was) for withholding information, and since i was already on academic probation for all the fights i used to get into(my school was like 95% niggers, aside from the academy and they pissed me the fuck off from time to time, id like to add i have a lot of respect for black people, and the ones i've met in university are some of the most hard working and intelligent, book AND street smart individuals i've come across) Anyways, my academy kicked me out because of the violation i made while already on probation, and i was forced to attend my other high school.
I lost contact with very important friends to me, self esteem, not to mention to reason i got fucked was because OF ME, i TRUSTED the private detective who MANIPULATED me and then tossed me aside like a cheap rag doll. Being a little happy trusting asian that i was, this SHATTERED not only my self esteem , because i handled the situation so poorly, but also my faith and trust in humans.
Letting go of the past was more important to me then i realized. I asked my mom what she thought and she explained, that they just had to make an example out of me, so that NO ONE would try something that this again. I was extremely unfortunate but of course i made the right move in trusting and being honest, because i had done nothing wrong. Im still extremely skeptical , and i feel its GOOD to be, but at least i don't despise the human race or something like that, haha.
;edit 7-10-12 Actually the above spoiler is Completely TRUE. Chef <3! Heres my pm i sent to him so u can understand wTF is going on lol
Thanks again. It's funny because i relapsed with your advice in mind, and tried to moderate myself( ended terribly) , and thus scorned everything you told me. but after a while everything became very very clear.
It was damn hard realizing that porn wasn't the problem, i only deferred to it much like how people suffering from poverty in third world countries do with alcohol, or drugs, ETC. I just hid away from my problems. But it(quitting porn) did give me a nice boost in terms of mental stability and cured my ED blah blah . Basically quitting porn was a catalyst for change, and i took full advantage of it.
You were the only one who gave me the reality check out of countless , and i really do mean countless hours, days even, of reading comments, blogs on reddit, so forth.
Obviously i still need to quit porn, weed and whatever else , because i fucked myself up over the years. But hell, its about damn time i fixed my life
But this ends my blog updates i believe i've learned all i can from this. Went 2 weeks, relapsed and then day 16 ATM. I might post a before/after pic and revise this blog and re submit later on in a few months. Thanks for all the support to those who've read all of this mess.
;editover9000; oh god i lied. i just kicked my gaming addiction*(yea no shit im a pro gamer i have ea gaming addiction LOL ) ** one thing i got from gaming addiction was intense paranoia http://common-phobias.com/Scelero/treatment.htm
but turns out i just funneled that into gym and guitar addiction
ok fuck it MR webMD im gonna go see a therapist or something lol
ah wait. addiction seems to be linked to lower dopamine receptors due to overuse and abuse of dopamine! "So far the only things that have been reported to increase dopamine receptors are exercise, abstinence from ejaculation, stopping addictions like pornography and fasting. "
Ah i started porn and obsessive gaming, compulsive lying such things when i was 8. this was the same time i left behind my childhood friends and memories. still remember their faces to this day, the things we did together. so forth
I thoroughly enjoyed reading your blog. I hope you will do well in the future and I hope you will keep us posted on your progress! Best of luck! Hwaiting ~
I remember EzPz from LoL. It's crazy to think it's been too years since that summer I was obsessed with it. All I can say is that I think it's good you're going out of your way to improve yourself. Best of luck!
Had this problem 9th through 11th grade, so glad i broke the habit. I know exactly what you went through. Was depressed and unmotivated. Stopped for a month and im an entirely different person now.
I masturbate and watch porn really frequently and it hasn't really affected me all that much. maybe it is because I don't feel so negative about it or maybe because it is more like a habit than a "feel horny, must watch porn" mindset? Not sure but good luck dude!
Be responsible to your own doings, set yourself a bottom line. For me, I would never miss any assignments even if I miss all the classes. I would never fail to turn up in group assignment meeting and I will try to make sure I am not destroying my groupmates' work
Alcohol and Marijauna release Dopamine as well. Actually last time I checked Dopamine is just one of the chemicals our brains use to experience pleasure. Sex, Gambling, Drugs whatever it is, Dopamine probably plays a role. And of course when you depend on high amounts of it frequently your Hedonic Set Point is raised higher and requires more Dopamine to get the same effect.
I am currently attending AA and MA (marijauna anonymous) meetings 7+ times a week, and they have helped me a lot (I haven't taken a mind or mood altering substance in 61 days ^_^, which is the longest I have ever gone since I started using them 8 years ago). Its just nice to know your not alone, and many many many people have experienced the same thing as you and are willing to talk about that openly and honestly. I honestly could not stop using until I started going to these groups and started to be completely honest with other people, that allowed me to be honest with myself.
I was in outpatient treatment for 2 months and relapsing frequently even while being drug tested with the threat of losing my job or being recommended for inpatient. :S
Now I feel pretty good and I am actually dealing with my life one problem at a time, not to mention I actually just get out and do shit. Hiking, rock climbing, trying new foods with friends, reading, biking, making music. I never had time for other people or things when all I cared about was getting high.
Weed is not the most harmless shit on the planet(It is a stimulant, a depressant, and a halucinogen). Kittens, Puppies, and Babies are far less harmless. Weed will bitch slap you like non-other if you let it. I know for a fact that some meth addicts, coke addicts, and herion addicts will admit that weed was harder for them to quit. People that say its not addictive are full of shit. Some people don't have a problem with it, but that doesn't change the fact that many people do. I spent almost 300 hundred dollars a week on it and could not stop on my own, even when I wanted to.
Oh and like I said at the beginning of my post, it releases dopamine, so you never really conquered dopamine abuse (after 3 days! Think about how much longer your going to be alive!). You probably will never "conquer" it, because your brain won't stop making it until you are dead (or you have a disease that stops it from producing). All you can do is know your faults and control yourself.
Anyways, congrats on making positive changes in your life, not trying to be a downer on you. But I felt like I should share part of my experience. Weed made me want to die, I was angry, isolated, and depressed every day and life had no purpose except to work (so that I could afford to spend over 13k a year on Weed) and get high. And getting high was never as fun as the first time.
Some people don't have problems with things like Alchohol, Weed, Sex. For other people it will literally ruin or take their lives away.
Thanks for all the comments, they really do help. Also im open to any logical criticism its not a big deal, im sure i have many logical fallacies in my blog post , and have other things in addition to PMO and weed to fix. I also left a lot of boring tidbits out, so it would be more interesting to read. And i agree weed is very harmful actually. but i've been brainwashed by the people i hang out with to believe otherwise , i have some pretty bad influences on my life , whether they know they are or not
It really depends on your personality type i feel, and i have a very addictive one , as do most progamers
But fucking hell if i don't feel good. Working out has definitely helped a lot as well, with willpower and whatnot. been going at it strong for 3-4 weeks.
My solution is everytime I want to fap, I play guitar trying to make songs for my band instead. 9 songs in the last two days. Keep it coming. And yeah I get addicted to everything I touch.
On June 15 2012 21:30 HeavOnEarth wrote: Thanks for all the comments, they really do help. Also im open to any logical criticism its not a big deal, im sure i have many logical fallacies in my blog post , and have other things in addition to PMO and weed to fix. I also left a lot of boring tidbits out, so it would be more interesting to read. And i agree weed is very harmful actually. but i've been brainwashed by the people i hang out with to believe otherwise , i have some pretty bad influences on my life , whether they know they are or not
It really depends on your personality type i feel, and i have a very addictive one , as do most progamers
But fucking hell if i don't feel good. Working out has definitely helped a lot as well, with willpower and whatnot. been going at it strong for 3-4 weeks.
One of the things a new anonymous friend of mine likes to say is that we don't have a drug problem, we have a drug solution. We use whatever we can so that we can ignore our real problems. 12 step groups are about dealing with those problems once you quit using whatever it was you were using.
Just keep doing what your doing and keep up the good work man! If you ever find you cannot do it alone there are groups of people ready to listen to you in person. I cannot stress enough how awesome it is you were honest in sharing your story with TL : ) 5/5
Basically you need to stop spending so much time analyzing yourself, and just go out there and be occupied. Your problem is not weed or anything specific--it's simply idleness. The more you reflect on your own neuroses, the more you become enslaved to them. Your day should not be taken up with thoughts like "OK, haven't done such and such for 18h24m now, must stay on track," and instead just go out, get a job, get back in school, play sports, join clubs, etc. Fill up your day from morning to night.
HeavOnEarth if you're on a new path, its dumb to stick with people who'll make that harder and only perpetuate the old, destructive path. If your entourage will hurt you and prevent you from progressing, its hard and it'll hurt but you've got to let them go if you really want to be dead to that old life.
Thank you for writing this, thank you for sharing. Beyond reading eye-opening articles and making a few good steps however, it's really important that you commit to this change if you really believe its the right thing. What I'm saying is don't give the enemy ANY FUCKING AMUNITION, don't go into situations where you know you'll be tempted to fall back, and stick to accountability groups that give you a constant reminder and reason to stay clean.
This echos from my own struggles with addictions: when temptation comes, you can have all the knowledge, insights and reasons in the world, but they're for nothing without comitted renewed dedication to breaking that old life.
Thank you very much for writing and sharing this, it's opened my eyes to the fact that my fapping is much more than some little thing to brush under the carpet, and is actually a serious problem that is really limiting my life and potential in many ways. reddit.com/r/nofap here I come, I'll register and start today.
On June 15 2012 21:56 jdsowa wrote: Basically you need to stop spending so much time analyzing yourself, and just go out there and be occupied. Your problem is not weed or anything specific--it's simply idleness. The more you reflect on your own neuroses, the more you become enslaved to them. Your day should not be taken up with thoughts like "OK, haven't done such and such for 18h24m now, must stay on track," and instead just go out, get a job, get back in school, play sports, join clubs, etc. Fill up your day from morning to night.
Solid advice, but i feel i have plenty to do, inbetween sc2 guitar gym talking to friends and my team on skype , or the random things that i have to do. I never felt it was a problem with just idleness, and i feel analyzing myself was the key to overcoming my addiction to quote an article
It's amazing what you learn doing this. I think I now fully understand the saying that 'knowledge is power.' Once you know how something works and how it affects you, it's much easier to muster the willpower to make a change if you so wish.
http://www.yourbrainonporn.com/node/79 So i disagree that i should stop analyzing myself, but i definitely agree idleness is terrible. I've been playing some mafia on TL as well. Used to enjoy it very much a few years ago. Just died day 1 as godfather tho so i dunno if ill keep playing LOL
Are porn and weed really fucking your life up? Really?
I think that you could benefit from speaking to your doctor about this stuff, I'm no expert, but it sounds like there's something else at the root of your problems.
On June 15 2012 22:43 Zorkmid wrote: Are porn and weed really fucking your life up? Really?
I think that you could benefit from speaking to your doctor about this stuff, I'm no expert, but it sounds like there's something else at the root of your problems.
its extremely embarrassing to admit, but yes. luckily , as many of u can tell by now, im shameless ^_^
off topic, but I've seen a counselor before and it was probably the worst thing. as for doctor i assume the typical Work out and eat healthy and dont do drugs advice would apply? all of which im doing i guess they could prescribe me something , but im not interested in that
as for root of my problems, i have an addictive personality, i dont believe there is a way to fix who you are, and im happy with the person i am regardless, just not other.. stuff.
On June 15 2012 22:43 Zorkmid wrote: Are porn and weed really fucking your life up? Really?
I think that you could benefit from speaking to your doctor about this stuff, I'm no expert, but it sounds like there's something else at the root of your problems.
its extremely embarrassing to admit, but yes. luckily , as many of u can tell by now, im shameless ^_^
off topic, but I've seen a counselor before and it was probably the worst thing. as for doctor i assume the typical Work out and eat healthy and dont do drugs advice would apply? all of which im doing i guess they could prescribe me something , but im not interested in that
as for root of my problems, i have an addictive personality, i dont believe there is a way to fix who you are, and im happy with the person i am regardless, just not other.. stuff.
Addictive personalities are fun, I have one too. Also distracting >.< But hey, good thing sc exists.
On June 15 2012 22:43 Zorkmid wrote: Are porn and weed really fucking your life up? Really?
I think that you could benefit from speaking to your doctor about this stuff, I'm no expert, but it sounds like there's something else at the root of your problems.
its extremely embarrassing to admit, but yes. luckily , as many of u can tell by now, im shameless ^_^
off topic, but I've seen a counselor before and it was probably the worst thing. as for doctor i assume the typical Work out and eat healthy and dont do drugs advice would apply? all of which im doing i guess they could prescribe me something , but im not interested in that
as for root of my problems, i have an addictive personality, i dont believe there is a way to fix who you are, and im happy with the person i am regardless, just not other.. stuff.
You should stay away from drugs completely then, they're not for ya.
On June 15 2012 21:15 Wrongspeedy wrote: Alcohol and Marijauna release Dopamine as well. Actually last time I checked Dopamine is just one of the chemicals our brains use to experience pleasure. Sex, Gambling, Drugs whatever it is, Dopamine probably plays a role. And of course when you depend on high amounts of it frequently your Hedonic Set Point is raised higher and requires more Dopamine to get the same effect.
I am currently attending AA and MA (marijauna anonymous) meetings 7+ times a week, and they have helped me a lot (I haven't taken a mind or mood altering substance in 61 days ^_^, which is the longest I have ever gone since I started using them 8 years ago). Its just nice to know your not alone, and many many many people have experienced the same thing as you and are willing to talk about that openly and honestly. I honestly could not stop using until I started going to these groups and started to be completely honest with other people, that allowed me to be honest with myself.
I was in outpatient treatment for 2 months and relapsing frequently even while being drug tested with the threat of losing my job or being recommended for inpatient. :S
Now I feel pretty good and I am actually dealing with my life one problem at a time, not to mention I actually just get out and do shit. Hiking, rock climbing, trying new foods with friends, reading, biking, making music. I never had time for other people or things when all I cared about was getting high.
Weed is not the most harmless shit on the planet(It is a stimulant, a depressant, and a halucinogen). Kittens, Puppies, and Babies are far less harmless. Weed will bitch slap you like non-other if you let it. I know for a fact that some meth addicts, coke addicts, and herion addicts will admit that weed was harder for them to quit. People that say its not addictive are full of shit. Some people don't have a problem with it, but that doesn't change the fact that many people do. I spent almost 300 hundred dollars a week on it and could not stop on my own, even when I wanted to.
Oh and like I said at the beginning of my post, it releases dopamine, so you never really conquered dopamine abuse (after 3 days! Think about how much longer your going to be alive!). You probably will never "conquer" it, because your brain won't stop making it until you are dead (or you have a disease that stops it from producing). All you can do is know your faults and control yourself.
Anyways, congrats on making positive changes in your life, not trying to be a downer on you. But I felt like I should share part of my experience. Weed made me want to die, I was angry, isolated, and depressed every day and life had no purpose except to work (so that I could afford to spend over 13k a year on Weed) and get high. And getting high was never as fun as the first time.
Some people don't have problems with things like Alchohol, Weed, Sex. For other people it will literally ruin or take their lives away.
I'm gonna have to strongly disagree with whoever is telling you weed is harder to quit than heroin or cocaine. I'm currently 28 years old. I've smoked weed on and off since high school. I was also an opiate addict for 4 years (oxycontin, then evetnually heroin, sniffed not intravenous) and have also been addicted to cocaine and cigarettes for stints in my life.
Weed was definitely the easiest thing for me to quit, compared to the other drugs. It required little effort, there are virtually no physical withdrawal symptoms, it's almost all mental. If you told me I'd either have to quit weed or heroin cold turkey I'll take weed everytime no question. have you ever gone through opiate withdrawal? it's like hell on earth.. I would say cigarettes and opiates are probably the hardest substances to quit.. I know benzos are extremely hard too but I've never really done those (like xanex etc.)
Also no offense but I personally think it's silly weed is viewed as something you need to go get help for to quit. (I always thought MA was methadone anonymous.. Marijuana anonymous??.. it's just funny for someone who's had to go through real drug withdrawal.. I mean inpatient treatment for weed? does that even exist?) Alcohol is more understandable, but both things in moderation really are relatively harmless. MODERATION.. it's key to everything. Why does everything have to be all out or nothing? I still choose to smoke weed today (I quit for 4 years) and drink alchol on weekends, and they are far less destructive than the other harder drugs (still need to be careful with alcohol). I do it in moderation, and I don't view it as something that controls me or my life, like opiates used to. I have a great job, make good money, I have motivation to work out 3-4 times a week. Really the only thing weed does is make me a little lazy and tired at times, but again it's something I could quit easily if I wanted to, all you need is a little willpower. I really don't see a need to atm since it's not effecting my life negatively. Opiates on the other hand destroyed my life, and alcohol can do the same if you drink everyday.. I just don't think marijuana should be grouped with things like heroin, cocaine.. even alcohol.. it really is not the same..
On June 15 2012 21:15 Wrongspeedy wrote: Alcohol and Marijauna release Dopamine as well. Actually last time I checked Dopamine is just one of the chemicals our brains use to experience pleasure. Sex, Gambling, Drugs whatever it is, Dopamine probably plays a role. And of course when you depend on high amounts of it frequently your Hedonic Set Point is raised higher and requires more Dopamine to get the same effect.
I am currently attending AA and MA (marijauna anonymous) meetings 7+ times a week, and they have helped me a lot (I haven't taken a mind or mood altering substance in 61 days ^_^, which is the longest I have ever gone since I started using them 8 years ago). Its just nice to know your not alone, and many many many people have experienced the same thing as you and are willing to talk about that openly and honestly. I honestly could not stop using until I started going to these groups and started to be completely honest with other people, that allowed me to be honest with myself.
I was in outpatient treatment for 2 months and relapsing frequently even while being drug tested with the threat of losing my job or being recommended for inpatient. :S
Now I feel pretty good and I am actually dealing with my life one problem at a time, not to mention I actually just get out and do shit. Hiking, rock climbing, trying new foods with friends, reading, biking, making music. I never had time for other people or things when all I cared about was getting high.
Weed is not the most harmless shit on the planet(It is a stimulant, a depressant, and a halucinogen). Kittens, Puppies, and Babies are far less harmless. Weed will bitch slap you like non-other if you let it. I know for a fact that some meth addicts, coke addicts, and herion addicts will admit that weed was harder for them to quit. People that say its not addictive are full of shit. Some people don't have a problem with it, but that doesn't change the fact that many people do. I spent almost 300 hundred dollars a week on it and could not stop on my own, even when I wanted to.
Oh and like I said at the beginning of my post, it releases dopamine, so you never really conquered dopamine abuse (after 3 days! Think about how much longer your going to be alive!). You probably will never "conquer" it, because your brain won't stop making it until you are dead (or you have a disease that stops it from producing). All you can do is know your faults and control yourself.
Anyways, congrats on making positive changes in your life, not trying to be a downer on you. But I felt like I should share part of my experience. Weed made me want to die, I was angry, isolated, and depressed every day and life had no purpose except to work (so that I could afford to spend over 13k a year on Weed) and get high. And getting high was never as fun as the first time.
Some people don't have problems with things like Alchohol, Weed, Sex. For other people it will literally ruin or take their lives away.
I'm gonna have to strongly disagree with whoever is telling you weed is harder to quit than heroin or cocaine. I'm currently 28 years old. I've smoked weed on and off since high school. I was also an opiate addict for 4 years (oxycontin, then evetnually heroin, sniffed not intravenous) and have also been addicted to cocaine and cigarettes for stints in my life.
Weed was definitely the easiest thing for me to quit, compared to the other drugs. It required little effort, there are virtually no physical withdrawal symptoms, it's almost all mental. If you told me I'd either have to quit weed or heroin cold turkey I'll take weed everytime no question. have you ever gone through opiate withdrawal? it's like hell on earth.. I would say cigarettes and opiates are probably the hardest substances to quit.. I know benzos are extremely hard too but I've never really done those (like xanex etc.)
Also no offense but I personally think it's silly weed is viewed as something you need to go get help for to quit. (I always thought MA was methadone anonymous.. Marijuana anonymous??.. it's just funny for someone who's had to go through real drug withdrawal.. I mean inpatient treatment for weed? does that even exist?) Alcohol is more understandable, but both things in moderation really are relatively harmless. MODERATION.. it's key to everything. Why does everything have to be all out or nothing? I still choose to smoke weed today (I quit for 4 years) and drink alchol on weekends, and they are far less destructive than the other harder drugs (still need to be careful with alcohol). I do it in moderation, and I don't view it as something that controls me or my life, like opiates used to. I have a great job, make good money, I have motivation to work out 3-4 times a week. Really the only thing weed does is make me a little lazy and tired at times, but again it's something I could quit easily if I wanted to, all you need is a little willpower. I really don't see a need to atm since it's not effecting my life negatively. Opiates on the other hand destroyed my life, and alcohol can do the same if you drink everyday.. I just don't think marijuana should be grouped with things like heroin, cocaine.. even alcohol.. it really is not the same..
Thats a nice opinion. I didn't say all herion and coke addicts felt that way, just that I personally know some who do. Willpower has nothing to do with it. My willpower was for buying more drugs, my favorite happened to be MJ.
Ciggs are harder to quit than just about anything, but people don't give a shit about them. And for you to say that MJ doesn't deserve to be in the same class as other narcotics because thats your Opinion; is just that, Your Opinion. I didn't say everyone who smokes weed will have a problem with it. I have friends who smoke an eigth every two weeks between themselves and their gf's. I smoked that in a day easy, Every Single Day. I am not saying that its impossible to use responsibly, only that its impossible for some people to use responsibly.
There are plenty of people in MA who have made your Opiate abuse look like childs play, and then had a hard time quitting MJ. MJ also has withdrawl, maybe not as bad as herion or alcohol; but for me personally, not sleeping for 2 weeks, not feeling like I could eat anything, having headaches for 2 months, and in general just being pissed off all the time, count as withdrawl. Weed is a real drug. Alcohol is a drug PERIOD. You offend me when you talk about real drug withdrawls.
While your at it, why don't you just tell HeavOnEarth to just keep fapping away because its not hardcore enough for you.
Dude, grats for coming forward with this. Reading your paragraphs on how PMO interfered with school made me have serious flashbacks. I never went so far as to cheat, but the failure, the terrible feelings, and the rationalizations I went through were the same. Fortunately for me, my roommate and my friends were supportive, and he introduced me to r/NoFap. Well, here's to getting our shit together, good luck! <3
On June 15 2012 21:15 Wrongspeedy wrote: Alcohol and Marijauna release Dopamine as well. Actually last time I checked Dopamine is just one of the chemicals our brains use to experience pleasure. Sex, Gambling, Drugs whatever it is, Dopamine probably plays a role. And of course when you depend on high amounts of it frequently your Hedonic Set Point is raised higher and requires more Dopamine to get the same effect.
I am currently attending AA and MA (marijauna anonymous) meetings 7+ times a week, and they have helped me a lot (I haven't taken a mind or mood altering substance in 61 days ^_^, which is the longest I have ever gone since I started using them 8 years ago). Its just nice to know your not alone, and many many many people have experienced the same thing as you and are willing to talk about that openly and honestly. I honestly could not stop using until I started going to these groups and started to be completely honest with other people, that allowed me to be honest with myself.
I was in outpatient treatment for 2 months and relapsing frequently even while being drug tested with the threat of losing my job or being recommended for inpatient. :S
Now I feel pretty good and I am actually dealing with my life one problem at a time, not to mention I actually just get out and do shit. Hiking, rock climbing, trying new foods with friends, reading, biking, making music. I never had time for other people or things when all I cared about was getting high.
Weed is not the most harmless shit on the planet(It is a stimulant, a depressant, and a halucinogen). Kittens, Puppies, and Babies are far less harmless. Weed will bitch slap you like non-other if you let it. I know for a fact that some meth addicts, coke addicts, and herion addicts will admit that weed was harder for them to quit. People that say its not addictive are full of shit. Some people don't have a problem with it, but that doesn't change the fact that many people do. I spent almost 300 hundred dollars a week on it and could not stop on my own, even when I wanted to.
Oh and like I said at the beginning of my post, it releases dopamine, so you never really conquered dopamine abuse (after 3 days! Think about how much longer your going to be alive!). You probably will never "conquer" it, because your brain won't stop making it until you are dead (or you have a disease that stops it from producing). All you can do is know your faults and control yourself.
Anyways, congrats on making positive changes in your life, not trying to be a downer on you. But I felt like I should share part of my experience. Weed made me want to die, I was angry, isolated, and depressed every day and life had no purpose except to work (so that I could afford to spend over 13k a year on Weed) and get high. And getting high was never as fun as the first time.
Some people don't have problems with things like Alchohol, Weed, Sex. For other people it will literally ruin or take their lives away.
I'm gonna have to strongly disagree with whoever is telling you weed is harder to quit than heroin or cocaine. I'm currently 28 years old. I've smoked weed on and off since high school. I was also an opiate addict for 4 years (oxycontin, then evetnually heroin, sniffed not intravenous) and have also been addicted to cocaine and cigarettes for stints in my life.
Weed was definitely the easiest thing for me to quit, compared to the other drugs. It required little effort, there are virtually no physical withdrawal symptoms, it's almost all mental. If you told me I'd either have to quit weed or heroin cold turkey I'll take weed everytime no question. have you ever gone through opiate withdrawal? it's like hell on earth.. I would say cigarettes and opiates are probably the hardest substances to quit.. I know benzos are extremely hard too but I've never really done those (like xanex etc.)
Also no offense but I personally think it's silly weed is viewed as something you need to go get help for to quit. (I always thought MA was methadone anonymous.. Marijuana anonymous??.. it's just funny for someone who's had to go through real drug withdrawal.. I mean inpatient treatment for weed? does that even exist?) Alcohol is more understandable, but both things in moderation really are relatively harmless. MODERATION.. it's key to everything. Why does everything have to be all out or nothing? I still choose to smoke weed today (I quit for 4 years) and drink alchol on weekends, and they are far less destructive than the other harder drugs (still need to be careful with alcohol). I do it in moderation, and I don't view it as something that controls me or my life, like opiates used to. I have a great job, make good money, I have motivation to work out 3-4 times a week. Really the only thing weed does is make me a little lazy and tired at times, but again it's something I could quit easily if I wanted to, all you need is a little willpower. I really don't see a need to atm since it's not effecting my life negatively. Opiates on the other hand destroyed my life, and alcohol can do the same if you drink everyday.. I just don't think marijuana should be grouped with things like heroin, cocaine.. even alcohol.. it really is not the same..
Thats a nice opinion. I didn't say all herion and coke addicts felt that way, just that I personally know some who do. Willpower has nothing to do with it. My willpower was for buying more drugs, my favorite happened to be MJ.
Ciggs are harder to quit than just about anything, but people don't give a shit about them. And for you to say that MJ doesn't deserve to be in the same class as other narcotics because thats your Opinion; is just that, Your Opinion. I didn't say everyone who smokes weed will have a problem with it. I have friends who smoke an eigth every two weeks between themselves and their gf's. I smoked that in a day easy, Every Single Day. I am not saying that its impossible to use responsibly, only that its impossible for some people to use responsibly.
There are plenty of people in MA who have made your Opiate abuse look like childs play, and then had a hard time quitting MJ. MJ also has withdrawl, maybe not as bad as herion or alcohol; but for me personally, not sleeping for 2 weeks, not feeling like I could eat anything, having headaches for 2 months, and in general just being pissed off all the time, count as withdrawl. Weed is a real drug. Alcohol is a drug PERIOD. You offend me when you talk about real drug withdrawls.
While your at it, why don't you just tell HeavOnEarth to just keep fapping away because its not hardcore enough for you.
No, just no. It is not an opinion, it is hard fact backed by addiction rates, by measures of bodily harm, by measures of societal impact. Violence rates, weapons charges, and companion illegalities are almost non-existent with marijuana, whereas with cocaine and methamphetamine they are considered standard fare. Just because quitting marijuana was difficult for you does not somehow change these things, and to then take the haughty road of claiming offense? Well, since reality is apparently dictated by anecdotal experience, here's an anecdote for you.
I was a part of the central Ohio drug scene for 5 years, during which I sold drugs, lived with drug dealers, and did many drugs myself. Wow, you can smoke an eighth of weed a day, what an addict you were! I've seen kids spit into a spoon, dissolve dmt in said spit, and inject it. I've seen women acquiesce to horrible acts of multiple partner sex just so they could stave off their dope sickness with some methadone. A friend of mine once became so delusional on massive doses of Xanax that he attempted to rob a grocery store with a golf club during the middle of the night. I'm not proud of some of the things I've done and the people I've consorted with, but I do value the lessons they've taught me when it comes to what the use of mind-altering chemicals can do to the human brain."There are plenty of people in MA who have made your opiate abuse look like childs play," This is garbage straight out of a 1950's after-school special, and has no basis in any reality, not even one warped by drugs. Have you ever held someone in your arms while they went through opiate withdrawal? I will never forget the smell of her sweat, the violent shaking of her limbs, or the nonsensical pleas for dope that slurred out in between bouts of vomiting. She died a week later, after a rebound injection in a new place proved too much for her already frail person.
This is where I'm gonna get even more politically incorrect. One cannot bring up addiction without discussing weakness, the two go hand in hand. I've seen kids get through medical school with a needle in their arm, and I've seen "psychonauts" flounder for years on dreams of discovering a truth that does not exist, and the difference ends up being weakness. Maybe you actually did know some people who hit rock bottom on marijuana, what I'm tlling you is that they were weak, plain and simple. If you happen to be too weak to consume psychadelic substances, then that is FINE! But stop there, because when you start to tell me that thc and diacetylmorphine have the same effect, well thats just bullshit.
To the OP, good luck friend. Life's trials and tribulations are what make the good parts of life so sweet.
On June 15 2012 21:15 Wrongspeedy wrote: Alcohol and Marijauna release Dopamine as well. Actually last time I checked Dopamine is just one of the chemicals our brains use to experience pleasure. Sex, Gambling, Drugs whatever it is, Dopamine probably plays a role. And of course when you depend on high amounts of it frequently your Hedonic Set Point is raised higher and requires more Dopamine to get the same effect.
I am currently attending AA and MA (marijauna anonymous) meetings 7+ times a week, and they have helped me a lot (I haven't taken a mind or mood altering substance in 61 days ^_^, which is the longest I have ever gone since I started using them 8 years ago). Its just nice to know your not alone, and many many many people have experienced the same thing as you and are willing to talk about that openly and honestly. I honestly could not stop using until I started going to these groups and started to be completely honest with other people, that allowed me to be honest with myself.
I was in outpatient treatment for 2 months and relapsing frequently even while being drug tested with the threat of losing my job or being recommended for inpatient. :S
Now I feel pretty good and I am actually dealing with my life one problem at a time, not to mention I actually just get out and do shit. Hiking, rock climbing, trying new foods with friends, reading, biking, making music. I never had time for other people or things when all I cared about was getting high.
Weed is not the most harmless shit on the planet(It is a stimulant, a depressant, and a halucinogen). Kittens, Puppies, and Babies are far less harmless. Weed will bitch slap you like non-other if you let it. I know for a fact that some meth addicts, coke addicts, and herion addicts will admit that weed was harder for them to quit. People that say its not addictive are full of shit. Some people don't have a problem with it, but that doesn't change the fact that many people do. I spent almost 300 hundred dollars a week on it and could not stop on my own, even when I wanted to.
Oh and like I said at the beginning of my post, it releases dopamine, so you never really conquered dopamine abuse (after 3 days! Think about how much longer your going to be alive!). You probably will never "conquer" it, because your brain won't stop making it until you are dead (or you have a disease that stops it from producing). All you can do is know your faults and control yourself.
Anyways, congrats on making positive changes in your life, not trying to be a downer on you. But I felt like I should share part of my experience. Weed made me want to die, I was angry, isolated, and depressed every day and life had no purpose except to work (so that I could afford to spend over 13k a year on Weed) and get high. And getting high was never as fun as the first time.
Some people don't have problems with things like Alchohol, Weed, Sex. For other people it will literally ruin or take their lives away.
I'm gonna have to strongly disagree with whoever is telling you weed is harder to quit than heroin or cocaine. I'm currently 28 years old. I've smoked weed on and off since high school. I was also an opiate addict for 4 years (oxycontin, then evetnually heroin, sniffed not intravenous) and have also been addicted to cocaine and cigarettes for stints in my life.
Weed was definitely the easiest thing for me to quit, compared to the other drugs. It required little effort, there are virtually no physical withdrawal symptoms, it's almost all mental. If you told me I'd either have to quit weed or heroin cold turkey I'll take weed everytime no question. have you ever gone through opiate withdrawal? it's like hell on earth.. I would say cigarettes and opiates are probably the hardest substances to quit.. I know benzos are extremely hard too but I've never really done those (like xanex etc.)
Also no offense but I personally think it's silly weed is viewed as something you need to go get help for to quit. (I always thought MA was methadone anonymous.. Marijuana anonymous??.. it's just funny for someone who's had to go through real drug withdrawal.. I mean inpatient treatment for weed? does that even exist?) Alcohol is more understandable, but both things in moderation really are relatively harmless. MODERATION.. it's key to everything. Why does everything have to be all out or nothing? I still choose to smoke weed today (I quit for 4 years) and drink alchol on weekends, and they are far less destructive than the other harder drugs (still need to be careful with alcohol). I do it in moderation, and I don't view it as something that controls me or my life, like opiates used to. I have a great job, make good money, I have motivation to work out 3-4 times a week. Really the only thing weed does is make me a little lazy and tired at times, but again it's something I could quit easily if I wanted to, all you need is a little willpower. I really don't see a need to atm since it's not effecting my life negatively. Opiates on the other hand destroyed my life, and alcohol can do the same if you drink everyday.. I just don't think marijuana should be grouped with things like heroin, cocaine.. even alcohol.. it really is not the same..
Thats a nice opinion. I didn't say all herion and coke addicts felt that way, just that I personally know some who do. Willpower has nothing to do with it. My willpower was for buying more drugs, my favorite happened to be MJ.
Ciggs are harder to quit than just about anything, but people don't give a shit about them. And for you to say that MJ doesn't deserve to be in the same class as other narcotics because thats your Opinion; is just that, Your Opinion. I didn't say everyone who smokes weed will have a problem with it. I have friends who smoke an eigth every two weeks between themselves and their gf's. I smoked that in a day easy, Every Single Day. I am not saying that its impossible to use responsibly, only that its impossible for some people to use responsibly.
There are plenty of people in MA who have made your Opiate abuse look like childs play, and then had a hard time quitting MJ. MJ also has withdrawl, maybe not as bad as herion or alcohol; but for me personally, not sleeping for 2 weeks, not feeling like I could eat anything, having headaches for 2 months, and in general just being pissed off all the time, count as withdrawl. Weed is a real drug. Alcohol is a drug PERIOD. You offend me when you talk about real drug withdrawls.
While your at it, why don't you just tell HeavOnEarth to just keep fapping away because its not hardcore enough for you.
No, just no. It is not an opinion, it is hard fact backed by addiction rates, by measures of bodily harm, by measures of societal impact. Violence rates, weapons charges, and companion illegalities are almost non-existent with marijuana, whereas with cocaine and methamphetamine they are considered standard fare. Just because quitting marijuana was difficult for you does not somehow change these things, and to then take the haughty road of claiming offense? Well, since reality is apparently dictated by anecdotal experience, here's an anecdote for you.
I was a part of the central Ohio drug scene for 5 years, during which I sold drugs, lived with drug dealers, and did many drugs myself. Wow, you can smoke an eighth of weed a day, what an addict you were! I've seen kids spit into a spoon, dissolve dmt in said spit, and inject it. I've seen women acquiesce to horrible acts of multiple partner sex just so they could stave off their dope sickness with some methadone. A friend of mine once became so delusional on massive doses of Xanax that he attempted to rob a grocery store with a golf club during the middle of the night. I'm not proud of some of the things I've done and the people I've consorted with, but I do value the lessons they've taught me when it comes to what the use of mind-altering chemicals can do to the human brain."There are plenty of people in MA who have made your opiate abuse look like childs play," This is garbage straight out of a 1950's after-school special, and has no basis in any reality, not even one warped by drugs. Have you ever held someone in your arms while they went through opiate withdrawal? I will never forget the smell of her sweat, the violent shaking of her limbs, or the nonsensical pleas for dope that slurred out in between bouts of vomiting. She died a week later, after a rebound injection in a new place proved too much for her already frail person.
This is where I'm gonna get even more politically incorrect. One cannot bring up addiction without discussing weakness, the two go hand in hand. I've seen kids get through medical school with a needle in their arm, and I've seen "psychonauts" flounder for years on dreams of discovering a truth that does not exist, and the difference ends up being weakness. Maybe you actually did know some people who hit rock bottom on marijuana, what I'm tlling you is that they were weak, plain and simple. If you happen to be too weak to consume psychadelic substances, then that is FINE! But stop there, because when you start to tell me that thc and diacetylmorphine have the same effect, well thats just bullshit.
To the OP, good luck friend. Life's trials and tribulations are what make the good parts of life so sweet.
You act like because people choose to go to MA the only drug they ever did is MJ (the point saying that people in MA made his opiate abuse look like childs play was because there are plenty of Herion/Opiate addicts in MA). Addiction is addiction. People in Narcotics Anonymous see it that way, why can't you? The physical symptoms may change from one drug to another, but the reasons for using and the process your brain uses to justify continuing to use are pretty much exactly the same.
As for your addiction rates, where are they, how were they collected? I can find a million different ways to pick apart "facts". What I was saying was my opinion, and I only said it because it pisses me off when someone trys to tell me that something is harmless when I have spent the last 4 months having people convince me its not. Outpatient groups, 12-step groups, work, family, friends.
Not really sure how to completely respond to your post honestly. I agree drugs are bad. I guess where we differ is what is a drug? Well the Federal Government classifies Weed as a Schedule 1 Narcotic (not that I even agree with that).
"(1) Schedule I.— (A) The drug or other substance has a high potential for abuse. (B) The drug or other substance has no currently accepted medical use in treatment in the United States. (C) There is a lack of accepted safety for use of the drug or other substance under medical supervision."
-gamma-Hydroxybutyric acid (GHB), which has been used as a general anaesthetic and for the treatment of narcolepsy and alcohol withdrawal with minimal side-effects [25] and controlled action but a limited safe dosage range. It was placed in Schedule I in March 2000 after widespread recreational use led to increased emergency room visits, hospitalizations, and deaths.[26] Uniquely, this drug is also listed in Schedule III for limited uses, under the trademark Xyrem; -12-Methoxyibogamine (Ibogaine), being reported to help in Heroin and other substance addiction -Marijuana including the Cannabis plant and its THC. Controversy exists about the placement of Marijuana in Schedule I. Like some other drugs in schedule I, there have been no reported cases of THC overdose. Main article: Removal of cannabis from Schedule I of the Controlled Substances Act. -Heroin (Diacetylmorphine), which is used in some European countries as a potent pain reliever in terminal cancer patients, and as second option, after morphine. (It is about twice as potent, by weight, as morphine.). In the United Kingdom it is also prescribed to intravenous heroin addicts who have not responded to, or are unable to tolerate methadone substitution therapy. -Other strong opiates and opioids used in many other countries, or even in the USA in previous decades for palliation of moderate to severe pain such as nicomorphine (Vilan), dextromoramide (Palfium), ketobemidone (Ketalgin), dihydromorphine (Paramorfan), piritramide (Dipidolor), diacetyldihydromorphine (Paralaudin), dipipanone (Wellconal), phenadoxone (Heptalgin) and many others. -Weak opioids used for relief of moderate pain, diarrhea, and coughing such as benzylmorphine (Peronine), nicocodeine (Tusscodin), Dihydrocodeinone enol acetate, tilidine (Valoron), meptazinol (Meptid), propiram (Algeril), acetyldihydrocodeine and others. -Pholcodine, a weak opioid cough suppressant with negligible abuse potential[citation needed] which is available over-the-counter in many other countries. -MDMA (3,4-methylenedioxymethamphetamine, Ecstasy), which continues to be used medically, notably in the treatment of post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD). The medical community originally agreed upon placing it as a Schedule III substance, but the government denied this suggestion, despite two court rulings by the DEA's administrative law judge that placing MDMA in Schedule I was illegal. It was temporarily unscheduled after the first administrative hearing from December 22, 1987 - July 1, 1988.[27] -Psilocybin, the active ingredient in psychedelic mushrooms; -5-MeO-DIPT (Foxy / Foxy Methoxy / 5-methoxy-N,N-diisopropyltryptamine) -Lysergic acid diethylamide ("LSD" / "Acid"), formerly used in psychotherapy, and the best known treatment for alcoholism to date.[28] -Peyote, a cactus growing in nature primarily in northeastern Mexico; one of the few plants specifically scheduled, with a narrow exception to its legal status for religious use by members of the Native American Church; -Mescaline, the main psychoactive ingredients of the peyote, san pedro, achuma, and Peruvian torch cacti; -Methaqualone (Quaalude, Sopor, Mandrax), a sedative that was previously used for similar purposes as barbiturates, until it was rescheduled; -2,5-dimethoxy-4-methylamphetamine (STP / DOM), a psychotropic hallucinogen that rose to prominence in 1967 in San Francisco when it appeared in pill form (known as "STP", in doses as high as four times the amounts previously considered "safe") on the black market; -2C-T-7 (Blue Mystic / T7), a psychotropic entheogen; -2C-B (Nexus / Bees / Venus / Bromo Mescaline), a psychotropic hallucinogen and aphrodisiac; -Cathinone (β-ketoamphetamine), a monoamine alkaloid found in the shrub Catha edulis (Khat); -AMT (alpha-methyltryptamine), an anti-depressant from the tryptamine family; first developed in the Soviet Union and marketed under the brand name Indopan; -Bufotenin (5-OH-DMT), a naturally-occurring tryptamine with hallucinogenic and aphrodisiac properties; named for the Bufo genus of toads whose poison contains the chemical;[29] -Benzylpiperazine (BZP), a synthetic drug also known as "party pills" or "herbal highs" is nearly indistinguishable from dexamphetamine and similar to MDMA. It has been shown to be associated with an increase in seizures if taken alone.[30] Although the effects of BZP are not as potent as MDMA, it can produce neuroadaptions that can cause an increase in the potential for abuse of this drug.[31]
^ Thats a fact, feel free to pick it apart in all its boldness.
I don't think I ever said it was easier to get off Herion than it is MJ. I'm trying to make a point that its addictive (because thats part of the stigma attached to weed, "its harmless, and not addictive", which in turn makes it harder for people to admit it was a problem for them). And all you want to do, I guess, is call people weak (people you don't know).
More stories I guess. One of my best friends is a Herion addict. He currently is not using Herion, but cannot stop smoking ganja or drinking alcohol. I'm not trying to say Herion is easier to quit, but some people do have a hard time quitting substances with "easier" withdrawls. Call them weak or whatever you want, I won't call them anything.
I am fucking Proud to say I am an Addict. The more I say it and believe it, the less likely I am going to let myself go back out. Does the thought of dropping acid and taking bong rips excite me? Hell yes, but thats part of the reason why I cannot do it anymore.
On June 15 2012 21:15 Wrongspeedy wrote: Alcohol and Marijauna release Dopamine as well. Actually last time I checked Dopamine is just one of the chemicals our brains use to experience pleasure. Sex, Gambling, Drugs whatever it is, Dopamine probably plays a role. And of course when you depend on high amounts of it frequently your Hedonic Set Point is raised higher and requires more Dopamine to get the same effect.
I am currently attending AA and MA (marijauna anonymous) meetings 7+ times a week, and they have helped me a lot (I haven't taken a mind or mood altering substance in 61 days ^_^, which is the longest I have ever gone since I started using them 8 years ago). Its just nice to know your not alone, and many many many people have experienced the same thing as you and are willing to talk about that openly and honestly. I honestly could not stop using until I started going to these groups and started to be completely honest with other people, that allowed me to be honest with myself.
I was in outpatient treatment for 2 months and relapsing frequently even while being drug tested with the threat of losing my job or being recommended for inpatient. :S
Now I feel pretty good and I am actually dealing with my life one problem at a time, not to mention I actually just get out and do shit. Hiking, rock climbing, trying new foods with friends, reading, biking, making music. I never had time for other people or things when all I cared about was getting high.
Weed is not the most harmless shit on the planet(It is a stimulant, a depressant, and a halucinogen). Kittens, Puppies, and Babies are far less harmless. Weed will bitch slap you like non-other if you let it. I know for a fact that some meth addicts, coke addicts, and herion addicts will admit that weed was harder for them to quit. People that say its not addictive are full of shit. Some people don't have a problem with it, but that doesn't change the fact that many people do. I spent almost 300 hundred dollars a week on it and could not stop on my own, even when I wanted to.
Oh and like I said at the beginning of my post, it releases dopamine, so you never really conquered dopamine abuse (after 3 days! Think about how much longer your going to be alive!). You probably will never "conquer" it, because your brain won't stop making it until you are dead (or you have a disease that stops it from producing). All you can do is know your faults and control yourself.
Anyways, congrats on making positive changes in your life, not trying to be a downer on you. But I felt like I should share part of my experience. Weed made me want to die, I was angry, isolated, and depressed every day and life had no purpose except to work (so that I could afford to spend over 13k a year on Weed) and get high. And getting high was never as fun as the first time.
Some people don't have problems with things like Alchohol, Weed, Sex. For other people it will literally ruin or take their lives away.
I'm gonna have to strongly disagree with whoever is telling you weed is harder to quit than heroin or cocaine. I'm currently 28 years old. I've smoked weed on and off since high school. I was also an opiate addict for 4 years (oxycontin, then evetnually heroin, sniffed not intravenous) and have also been addicted to cocaine and cigarettes for stints in my life.
Weed was definitely the easiest thing for me to quit, compared to the other drugs. It required little effort, there are virtually no physical withdrawal symptoms, it's almost all mental. If you told me I'd either have to quit weed or heroin cold turkey I'll take weed everytime no question. have you ever gone through opiate withdrawal? it's like hell on earth.. I would say cigarettes and opiates are probably the hardest substances to quit.. I know benzos are extremely hard too but I've never really done those (like xanex etc.)
Also no offense but I personally think it's silly weed is viewed as something you need to go get help for to quit. (I always thought MA was methadone anonymous.. Marijuana anonymous??.. it's just funny for someone who's had to go through real drug withdrawal.. I mean inpatient treatment for weed? does that even exist?) Alcohol is more understandable, but both things in moderation really are relatively harmless. MODERATION.. it's key to everything. Why does everything have to be all out or nothing? I still choose to smoke weed today (I quit for 4 years) and drink alchol on weekends, and they are far less destructive than the other harder drugs (still need to be careful with alcohol). I do it in moderation, and I don't view it as something that controls me or my life, like opiates used to. I have a great job, make good money, I have motivation to work out 3-4 times a week. Really the only thing weed does is make me a little lazy and tired at times, but again it's something I could quit easily if I wanted to, all you need is a little willpower. I really don't see a need to atm since it's not effecting my life negatively. Opiates on the other hand destroyed my life, and alcohol can do the same if you drink everyday.. I just don't think marijuana should be grouped with things like heroin, cocaine.. even alcohol.. it really is not the same..
Thats a nice opinion. I didn't say all herion and coke addicts felt that way, just that I personally know some who do. Willpower has nothing to do with it. My willpower was for buying more drugs, my favorite happened to be MJ.
Ciggs are harder to quit than just about anything, but people don't give a shit about them. And for you to say that MJ doesn't deserve to be in the same class as other narcotics because thats your Opinion; is just that, Your Opinion. I didn't say everyone who smokes weed will have a problem with it. I have friends who smoke an eigth every two weeks between themselves and their gf's. I smoked that in a day easy, Every Single Day. I am not saying that its impossible to use responsibly, only that its impossible for some people to use responsibly.
There are plenty of people in MA who have made your Opiate abuse look like childs play, and then had a hard time quitting MJ. MJ also has withdrawl, maybe not as bad as herion or alcohol; but for me personally, not sleeping for 2 weeks, not feeling like I could eat anything, having headaches for 2 months, and in general just being pissed off all the time, count as withdrawl. Weed is a real drug. Alcohol is a drug PERIOD. You offend me when you talk about real drug withdrawls.
While your at it, why don't you just tell HeavOnEarth to just keep fapping away because its not hardcore enough for you.
No, just no. It is not an opinion, it is hard fact backed by addiction rates, by measures of bodily harm, by measures of societal impact. Violence rates, weapons charges, and companion illegalities are almost non-existent with marijuana, whereas with cocaine and methamphetamine they are considered standard fare. Just because quitting marijuana was difficult for you does not somehow change these things, and to then take the haughty road of claiming offense? Well, since reality is apparently dictated by anecdotal experience, here's an anecdote for you.
I was a part of the central Ohio drug scene for 5 years, during which I sold drugs, lived with drug dealers, and did many drugs myself. Wow, you can smoke an eighth of weed a day, what an addict you were! I've seen kids spit into a spoon, dissolve dmt in said spit, and inject it. I've seen women acquiesce to horrible acts of multiple partner sex just so they could stave off their dope sickness with some methadone. A friend of mine once became so delusional on massive doses of Xanax that he attempted to rob a grocery store with a golf club during the middle of the night. I'm not proud of some of the things I've done and the people I've consorted with, but I do value the lessons they've taught me when it comes to what the use of mind-altering chemicals can do to the human brain."There are plenty of people in MA who have made your opiate abuse look like childs play," This is garbage straight out of a 1950's after-school special, and has no basis in any reality, not even one warped by drugs. Have you ever held someone in your arms while they went through opiate withdrawal? I will never forget the smell of her sweat, the violent shaking of her limbs, or the nonsensical pleas for dope that slurred out in between bouts of vomiting. She died a week later, after a rebound injection in a new place proved too much for her already frail person.
This is where I'm gonna get even more politically incorrect. One cannot bring up addiction without discussing weakness, the two go hand in hand. I've seen kids get through medical school with a needle in their arm, and I've seen "psychonauts" flounder for years on dreams of discovering a truth that does not exist, and the difference ends up being weakness. Maybe you actually did know some people who hit rock bottom on marijuana, what I'm tlling you is that they were weak, plain and simple. If you happen to be too weak to consume psychadelic substances, then that is FINE! But stop there, because when you start to tell me that thc and diacetylmorphine have the same effect, well thats just bullshit.
"To the OP, good luck friend. Life's trials and tribulations are what make the good parts of life so sweet."
I think people are misunderstanding what's talking about, he's not saying watching porn is a bad thing or will automatically make you lazy/unmotivated. What it sounds like is he's been doing this multiple times every day, that's really going to mess with your reward system that your brain has set up.
He's not implying that doing it once a day is a bad thing, but doing it frequently or even obsessively when you're bored is the issue. As it is with any addiction, you constantly need more.
So a quick note, i've seen nothing but HUGE benefits so far, my social anxiety is decreasing. for example, before i literally would never speak to my father or my sister(they're both shy as well) and i found myself trying to talk/interact with them any time the chance arises now
ALL my 5 senses have improved drastically, and i tend to enjoy simpler things a hell of a lot more.
for example i watched this video
laughed my ass off, and then INSTANTLY learned the song, comedy routine and all. took me about a day but there u have it
On contrary , before i would keep sifting through youtube videos bored as hell , MAYBE chuckling a little, but never this engaged.
Another thing i noted is that people(well, stories ive read on reddit) who 'quit' PMO , blame it for ALL their problems. when in actuality they just had 0 to little willpower
Dont get me wrong, So did I(my story is a little different obviously), but nonetheless i slowly trained it everyday. Willpower is like a muscle. Things like getting angry(or defensive) over little things is an example of lack of willpower. (no ill will meant, but the above conversation is a good example) Its okay to disagree , and its good to argue sometimes! but you can also be civil and mannered(this is where willpower comes in) in your approach Also i dont mind , my blog was written to help myself and possibly help other people that read it. comment however ud like in my blog, whether that be happy thoughts or unfiltered rage and spite for the other person you're talking to ^^ =D
So in actuality i would like to revise that, choosing not to PMO, , increased my willpower in itself. And this willpower is what is actually helping me the most, and the FIRST step is to actually WANT to improve yourself. Give yourself a reason Hopefully however, my blog/logs , or some other motivational crap can be that reason for you
Oh also i have very vivid dreams, that i actually remember, (my memory is improving A LOT as well) Yesterday there was that zombie invasion. apparently if a zombie starts chasing you and u walk slowly like zombie they deaggro. i realized that was stupid as hell then i woke up Today there was my random wet dream. im still kinda lazy so ill just copy the chat logs i sent to my gf HeavOnEarth: it was pretty funny actually HeavOnEarth: i was like oh noo what am i doing im cheating on alexx HeavOnEarth: and then i message u in the dream aand tis like u already know HeavOnEarth: and ur like how could u u u HeavOnEarth: and i was like i dont evne think it happened i think im (day)dreamin----- boom HeavOnEarth: wake up HeavOnEarth: XD
Also i dont know if its related or not, but jesus the neck sprain i got from doing my abs yesterday hurts so fucking bad lol
On June 15 2012 21:15 Wrongspeedy wrote: Alcohol and Marijauna release Dopamine as well. Actually last time I checked Dopamine is just one of the chemicals our brains use to experience pleasure. Sex, Gambling, Drugs whatever it is, Dopamine probably plays a role. And of course when you depend on high amounts of it frequently your Hedonic Set Point is raised higher and requires more Dopamine to get the same effect.
I am currently attending AA and MA (marijauna anonymous) meetings 7+ times a week, and they have helped me a lot (I haven't taken a mind or mood altering substance in 61 days ^_^, which is the longest I have ever gone since I started using them 8 years ago). Its just nice to know your not alone, and many many many people have experienced the same thing as you and are willing to talk about that openly and honestly. I honestly could not stop using until I started going to these groups and started to be completely honest with other people, that allowed me to be honest with myself.
I was in outpatient treatment for 2 months and relapsing frequently even while being drug tested with the threat of losing my job or being recommended for inpatient. :S
Now I feel pretty good and I am actually dealing with my life one problem at a time, not to mention I actually just get out and do shit. Hiking, rock climbing, trying new foods with friends, reading, biking, making music. I never had time for other people or things when all I cared about was getting high.
Weed is not the most harmless shit on the planet(It is a stimulant, a depressant, and a halucinogen). Kittens, Puppies, and Babies are far less harmless. Weed will bitch slap you like non-other if you let it. I know for a fact that some meth addicts, coke addicts, and herion addicts will admit that weed was harder for them to quit. People that say its not addictive are full of shit. Some people don't have a problem with it, but that doesn't change the fact that many people do. I spent almost 300 hundred dollars a week on it and could not stop on my own, even when I wanted to.
Oh and like I said at the beginning of my post, it releases dopamine, so you never really conquered dopamine abuse (after 3 days! Think about how much longer your going to be alive!). You probably will never "conquer" it, because your brain won't stop making it until you are dead (or you have a disease that stops it from producing). All you can do is know your faults and control yourself.
Anyways, congrats on making positive changes in your life, not trying to be a downer on you. But I felt like I should share part of my experience. Weed made me want to die, I was angry, isolated, and depressed every day and life had no purpose except to work (so that I could afford to spend over 13k a year on Weed) and get high. And getting high was never as fun as the first time.
Some people don't have problems with things like Alchohol, Weed, Sex. For other people it will literally ruin or take their lives away.
I'm gonna have to strongly disagree with whoever is telling you weed is harder to quit than heroin or cocaine. I'm currently 28 years old. I've smoked weed on and off since high school. I was also an opiate addict for 4 years (oxycontin, then evetnually heroin, sniffed not intravenous) and have also been addicted to cocaine and cigarettes for stints in my life.
Weed was definitely the easiest thing for me to quit, compared to the other drugs. It required little effort, there are virtually no physical withdrawal symptoms, it's almost all mental. If you told me I'd either have to quit weed or heroin cold turkey I'll take weed everytime no question. have you ever gone through opiate withdrawal? it's like hell on earth.. I would say cigarettes and opiates are probably the hardest substances to quit.. I know benzos are extremely hard too but I've never really done those (like xanex etc.)
Also no offense but I personally think it's silly weed is viewed as something you need to go get help for to quit. (I always thought MA was methadone anonymous.. Marijuana anonymous??.. it's just funny for someone who's had to go through real drug withdrawal.. I mean inpatient treatment for weed? does that even exist?) Alcohol is more understandable, but both things in moderation really are relatively harmless. MODERATION.. it's key to everything. Why does everything have to be all out or nothing? I still choose to smoke weed today (I quit for 4 years) and drink alchol on weekends, and they are far less destructive than the other harder drugs (still need to be careful with alcohol). I do it in moderation, and I don't view it as something that controls me or my life, like opiates used to. I have a great job, make good money, I have motivation to work out 3-4 times a week. Really the only thing weed does is make me a little lazy and tired at times, but again it's something I could quit easily if I wanted to, all you need is a little willpower. I really don't see a need to atm since it's not effecting my life negatively. Opiates on the other hand destroyed my life, and alcohol can do the same if you drink everyday.. I just don't think marijuana should be grouped with things like heroin, cocaine.. even alcohol.. it really is not the same..
Thats a nice opinion. I didn't say all herion and coke addicts felt that way, just that I personally know some who do. Willpower has nothing to do with it. My willpower was for buying more drugs, my favorite happened to be MJ.
Ciggs are harder to quit than just about anything, but people don't give a shit about them. And for you to say that MJ doesn't deserve to be in the same class as other narcotics because thats your Opinion; is just that, Your Opinion. I didn't say everyone who smokes weed will have a problem with it. I have friends who smoke an eigth every two weeks between themselves and their gf's. I smoked that in a day easy, Every Single Day. I am not saying that its impossible to use responsibly, only that its impossible for some people to use responsibly.
There are plenty of people in MA who have made your Opiate abuse look like childs play, and then had a hard time quitting MJ. MJ also has withdrawl, maybe not as bad as herion or alcohol; but for me personally, not sleeping for 2 weeks, not feeling like I could eat anything, having headaches for 2 months, and in general just being pissed off all the time, count as withdrawl. Weed is a real drug. Alcohol is a drug PERIOD. You offend me when you talk about real drug withdrawls.
While your at it, why don't you just tell HeavOnEarth to just keep fapping away because its not hardcore enough for you.
No, just no. It is not an opinion, it is hard fact backed by addiction rates, by measures of bodily harm, by measures of societal impact. Violence rates, weapons charges, and companion illegalities are almost non-existent with marijuana, whereas with cocaine and methamphetamine they are considered standard fare. Just because quitting marijuana was difficult for you does not somehow change these things, and to then take the haughty road of claiming offense? Well, since reality is apparently dictated by anecdotal experience, here's an anecdote for you.
I was a part of the central Ohio drug scene for 5 years, during which I sold drugs, lived with drug dealers, and did many drugs myself. Wow, you can smoke an eighth of weed a day, what an addict you were! I've seen kids spit into a spoon, dissolve dmt in said spit, and inject it. I've seen women acquiesce to horrible acts of multiple partner sex just so they could stave off their dope sickness with some methadone. A friend of mine once became so delusional on massive doses of Xanax that he attempted to rob a grocery store with a golf club during the middle of the night. I'm not proud of some of the things I've done and the people I've consorted with, but I do value the lessons they've taught me when it comes to what the use of mind-altering chemicals can do to the human brain."There are plenty of people in MA who have made your opiate abuse look like childs play," This is garbage straight out of a 1950's after-school special, and has no basis in any reality, not even one warped by drugs. Have you ever held someone in your arms while they went through opiate withdrawal? I will never forget the smell of her sweat, the violent shaking of her limbs, or the nonsensical pleas for dope that slurred out in between bouts of vomiting. She died a week later, after a rebound injection in a new place proved too much for her already frail person.
This is where I'm gonna get even more politically incorrect. One cannot bring up addiction without discussing weakness, the two go hand in hand. I've seen kids get through medical school with a needle in their arm, and I've seen "psychonauts" flounder for years on dreams of discovering a truth that does not exist, and the difference ends up being weakness. Maybe you actually did know some people who hit rock bottom on marijuana, what I'm tlling you is that they were weak, plain and simple. If you happen to be too weak to consume psychadelic substances, then that is FINE! But stop there, because when you start to tell me that thc and diacetylmorphine have the same effect, well thats just bullshit.
To the OP, good luck friend. Life's trials and tribulations are what make the good parts of life so sweet.
You act like because people choose to go to MA the only drug they ever did is MJ (the point saying that people in MA made his opiate abuse look like childs play was because there are plenty of Herion/Opiate addicts in MA). Addiction is addiction. People in Narcotics Anonymous see it that way, why can't you? The physical symptoms may change from one drug to another, but the reasons for using and the process your brain uses to justify continuing to use are pretty much exactly the same.
As for your addiction rates, where are they, how were they collected? I can find a million different ways to pick apart "facts". What I was saying was my opinion, and I only said it because it pisses me off when someone trys to tell me that something is harmless when I have spent the last 4 months having people convince me its not. Outpatient groups, 12-step groups, work, family, friends.
Not really sure how to completely respond to your post honestly. I agree drugs are bad. I guess where we differ is what is a drug? Well the Federal Government classifies Weed as a Schedule 1 Narcotic (not that I even agree with that).
"(1) Schedule I.— (A) The drug or other substance has a high potential for abuse. (B) The drug or other substance has no currently accepted medical use in treatment in the United States. (C) There is a lack of accepted safety for use of the drug or other substance under medical supervision."
-gamma-Hydroxybutyric acid (GHB), which has been used as a general anaesthetic and for the treatment of narcolepsy and alcohol withdrawal with minimal side-effects [25] and controlled action but a limited safe dosage range. It was placed in Schedule I in March 2000 after widespread recreational use led to increased emergency room visits, hospitalizations, and deaths.[26] Uniquely, this drug is also listed in Schedule III for limited uses, under the trademark Xyrem; -12-Methoxyibogamine (Ibogaine), being reported to help in Heroin and other substance addiction -Marijuana including the Cannabis plant and its THC. Controversy exists about the placement of Marijuana in Schedule I. Like some other drugs in schedule I, there have been no reported cases of THC overdose. Main article: Removal of cannabis from Schedule I of the Controlled Substances Act. -Heroin (Diacetylmorphine), which is used in some European countries as a potent pain reliever in terminal cancer patients, and as second option, after morphine. (It is about twice as potent, by weight, as morphine.). In the United Kingdom it is also prescribed to intravenous heroin addicts who have not responded to, or are unable to tolerate methadone substitution therapy. -Other strong opiates and opioids used in many other countries, or even in the USA in previous decades for palliation of moderate to severe pain such as nicomorphine (Vilan), dextromoramide (Palfium), ketobemidone (Ketalgin), dihydromorphine (Paramorfan), piritramide (Dipidolor), diacetyldihydromorphine (Paralaudin), dipipanone (Wellconal), phenadoxone (Heptalgin) and many others. -Weak opioids used for relief of moderate pain, diarrhea, and coughing such as benzylmorphine (Peronine), nicocodeine (Tusscodin), Dihydrocodeinone enol acetate, tilidine (Valoron), meptazinol (Meptid), propiram (Algeril), acetyldihydrocodeine and others. -Pholcodine, a weak opioid cough suppressant with negligible abuse potential[citation needed] which is available over-the-counter in many other countries. -MDMA (3,4-methylenedioxymethamphetamine, Ecstasy), which continues to be used medically, notably in the treatment of post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD). The medical community originally agreed upon placing it as a Schedule III substance, but the government denied this suggestion, despite two court rulings by the DEA's administrative law judge that placing MDMA in Schedule I was illegal. It was temporarily unscheduled after the first administrative hearing from December 22, 1987 - July 1, 1988.[27] -Psilocybin, the active ingredient in psychedelic mushrooms; -5-MeO-DIPT (Foxy / Foxy Methoxy / 5-methoxy-N,N-diisopropyltryptamine) -Lysergic acid diethylamide ("LSD" / "Acid"), formerly used in psychotherapy, and the best known treatment for alcoholism to date.[28] -Peyote, a cactus growing in nature primarily in northeastern Mexico; one of the few plants specifically scheduled, with a narrow exception to its legal status for religious use by members of the Native American Church; -Mescaline, the main psychoactive ingredients of the peyote, san pedro, achuma, and Peruvian torch cacti; -Methaqualone (Quaalude, Sopor, Mandrax), a sedative that was previously used for similar purposes as barbiturates, until it was rescheduled; -2,5-dimethoxy-4-methylamphetamine (STP / DOM), a psychotropic hallucinogen that rose to prominence in 1967 in San Francisco when it appeared in pill form (known as "STP", in doses as high as four times the amounts previously considered "safe") on the black market; -2C-T-7 (Blue Mystic / T7), a psychotropic entheogen; -2C-B (Nexus / Bees / Venus / Bromo Mescaline), a psychotropic hallucinogen and aphrodisiac; -Cathinone (β-ketoamphetamine), a monoamine alkaloid found in the shrub Catha edulis (Khat); -AMT (alpha-methyltryptamine), an anti-depressant from the tryptamine family; first developed in the Soviet Union and marketed under the brand name Indopan; -Bufotenin (5-OH-DMT), a naturally-occurring tryptamine with hallucinogenic and aphrodisiac properties; named for the Bufo genus of toads whose poison contains the chemical;[29] -Benzylpiperazine (BZP), a synthetic drug also known as "party pills" or "herbal highs" is nearly indistinguishable from dexamphetamine and similar to MDMA. It has been shown to be associated with an increase in seizures if taken alone.[30] Although the effects of BZP are not as potent as MDMA, it can produce neuroadaptions that can cause an increase in the potential for abuse of this drug.[31]
^ Thats a fact, feel free to pick it apart in all its boldness.
I don't think I ever said it was easier to get off Herion than it is MJ. I'm trying to make a point that its addictive (because thats part of the stigma attached to weed, "its harmless, and not addictive", which in turn makes it harder for people to admit it was a problem for them). And all you want to do, I guess, is call people weak (people you don't know).
More stories I guess. One of my best friends is a Herion addict. He currently is not using Herion, but cannot stop smoking ganja or drinking alcohol. I'm not trying to say Herion is easier to quit, but some people do have a hard time quitting substances with "easier" withdrawls. Call them weak or whatever you want, I won't call them anything.
I am fucking Proud to say I am an Addict. The more I say it and believe it, the less likely I am going to let myself go back out. Does the thought of dropping acid and taking bong rips excite me? Hell yes, but thats part of the reason why I cannot do it anymore.
On June 15 2012 21:15 Wrongspeedy wrote: Alcohol and Marijauna release Dopamine as well. Actually last time I checked Dopamine is just one of the chemicals our brains use to experience pleasure. Sex, Gambling, Drugs whatever it is, Dopamine probably plays a role. And of course when you depend on high amounts of it frequently your Hedonic Set Point is raised higher and requires more Dopamine to get the same effect.
I am currently attending AA and MA (marijauna anonymous) meetings 7+ times a week, and they have helped me a lot (I haven't taken a mind or mood altering substance in 61 days ^_^, which is the longest I have ever gone since I started using them 8 years ago). Its just nice to know your not alone, and many many many people have experienced the same thing as you and are willing to talk about that openly and honestly. I honestly could not stop using until I started going to these groups and started to be completely honest with other people, that allowed me to be honest with myself.
I was in outpatient treatment for 2 months and relapsing frequently even while being drug tested with the threat of losing my job or being recommended for inpatient. :S
Now I feel pretty good and I am actually dealing with my life one problem at a time, not to mention I actually just get out and do shit. Hiking, rock climbing, trying new foods with friends, reading, biking, making music. I never had time for other people or things when all I cared about was getting high.
Weed is not the most harmless shit on the planet(It is a stimulant, a depressant, and a halucinogen). Kittens, Puppies, and Babies are far less harmless. Weed will bitch slap you like non-other if you let it. I know for a fact that some meth addicts, coke addicts, and herion addicts will admit that weed was harder for them to quit. People that say its not addictive are full of shit. Some people don't have a problem with it, but that doesn't change the fact that many people do. I spent almost 300 hundred dollars a week on it and could not stop on my own, even when I wanted to.
Oh and like I said at the beginning of my post, it releases dopamine, so you never really conquered dopamine abuse (after 3 days! Think about how much longer your going to be alive!). You probably will never "conquer" it, because your brain won't stop making it until you are dead (or you have a disease that stops it from producing). All you can do is know your faults and control yourself.
Anyways, congrats on making positive changes in your life, not trying to be a downer on you. But I felt like I should share part of my experience. Weed made me want to die, I was angry, isolated, and depressed every day and life had no purpose except to work (so that I could afford to spend over 13k a year on Weed) and get high. And getting high was never as fun as the first time.
Some people don't have problems with things like Alchohol, Weed, Sex. For other people it will literally ruin or take their lives away.
I'm gonna have to strongly disagree with whoever is telling you weed is harder to quit than heroin or cocaine. I'm currently 28 years old. I've smoked weed on and off since high school. I was also an opiate addict for 4 years (oxycontin, then evetnually heroin, sniffed not intravenous) and have also been addicted to cocaine and cigarettes for stints in my life.
Weed was definitely the easiest thing for me to quit, compared to the other drugs. It required little effort, there are virtually no physical withdrawal symptoms, it's almost all mental. If you told me I'd either have to quit weed or heroin cold turkey I'll take weed everytime no question. have you ever gone through opiate withdrawal? it's like hell on earth.. I would say cigarettes and opiates are probably the hardest substances to quit.. I know benzos are extremely hard too but I've never really done those (like xanex etc.)
Also no offense but I personally think it's silly weed is viewed as something you need to go get help for to quit. (I always thought MA was methadone anonymous.. Marijuana anonymous??.. it's just funny for someone who's had to go through real drug withdrawal.. I mean inpatient treatment for weed? does that even exist?) Alcohol is more understandable, but both things in moderation really are relatively harmless. MODERATION.. it's key to everything. Why does everything have to be all out or nothing? I still choose to smoke weed today (I quit for 4 years) and drink alchol on weekends, and they are far less destructive than the other harder drugs (still need to be careful with alcohol). I do it in moderation, and I don't view it as something that controls me or my life, like opiates used to. I have a great job, make good money, I have motivation to work out 3-4 times a week. Really the only thing weed does is make me a little lazy and tired at times, but again it's something I could quit easily if I wanted to, all you need is a little willpower. I really don't see a need to atm since it's not effecting my life negatively. Opiates on the other hand destroyed my life, and alcohol can do the same if you drink everyday.. I just don't think marijuana should be grouped with things like heroin, cocaine.. even alcohol.. it really is not the same..
Thats a nice opinion. I didn't say all herion and coke addicts felt that way, just that I personally know some who do. Willpower has nothing to do with it. My willpower was for buying more drugs, my favorite happened to be MJ.
Ciggs are harder to quit than just about anything, but people don't give a shit about them. And for you to say that MJ doesn't deserve to be in the same class as other narcotics because thats your Opinion; is just that, Your Opinion. I didn't say everyone who smokes weed will have a problem with it. I have friends who smoke an eigth every two weeks between themselves and their gf's. I smoked that in a day easy, Every Single Day. I am not saying that its impossible to use responsibly, only that its impossible for some people to use responsibly.
There are plenty of people in MA who have made your Opiate abuse look like childs play, and then had a hard time quitting MJ. MJ also has withdrawl, maybe not as bad as herion or alcohol; but for me personally, not sleeping for 2 weeks, not feeling like I could eat anything, having headaches for 2 months, and in general just being pissed off all the time, count as withdrawl. Weed is a real drug. Alcohol is a drug PERIOD. You offend me when you talk about real drug withdrawls.
While your at it, why don't you just tell HeavOnEarth to just keep fapping away because its not hardcore enough for you.
No, just no. It is not an opinion, it is hard fact backed by addiction rates, by measures of bodily harm, by measures of societal impact. Violence rates, weapons charges, and companion illegalities are almost non-existent with marijuana, whereas with cocaine and methamphetamine they are considered standard fare. Just because quitting marijuana was difficult for you does not somehow change these things, and to then take the haughty road of claiming offense? Well, since reality is apparently dictated by anecdotal experience, here's an anecdote for you.
I was a part of the central Ohio drug scene for 5 years, during which I sold drugs, lived with drug dealers, and did many drugs myself. Wow, you can smoke an eighth of weed a day, what an addict you were! I've seen kids spit into a spoon, dissolve dmt in said spit, and inject it. I've seen women acquiesce to horrible acts of multiple partner sex just so they could stave off their dope sickness with some methadone. A friend of mine once became so delusional on massive doses of Xanax that he attempted to rob a grocery store with a golf club during the middle of the night. I'm not proud of some of the things I've done and the people I've consorted with, but I do value the lessons they've taught me when it comes to what the use of mind-altering chemicals can do to the human brain."There are plenty of people in MA who have made your opiate abuse look like childs play," This is garbage straight out of a 1950's after-school special, and has no basis in any reality, not even one warped by drugs. Have you ever held someone in your arms while they went through opiate withdrawal? I will never forget the smell of her sweat, the violent shaking of her limbs, or the nonsensical pleas for dope that slurred out in between bouts of vomiting. She died a week later, after a rebound injection in a new place proved too much for her already frail person.
This is where I'm gonna get even more politically incorrect. One cannot bring up addiction without discussing weakness, the two go hand in hand. I've seen kids get through medical school with a needle in their arm, and I've seen "psychonauts" flounder for years on dreams of discovering a truth that does not exist, and the difference ends up being weakness. Maybe you actually did know some people who hit rock bottom on marijuana, what I'm tlling you is that they were weak, plain and simple. If you happen to be too weak to consume psychadelic substances, then that is FINE! But stop there, because when you start to tell me that thc and diacetylmorphine have the same effect, well thats just bullshit.
"To the OP, good luck friend. Life's trials and tribulations are what make the good parts of life so sweet."
What? Not gonna call HeavOnEarth weak too?
First off, we are all weak, its simply a question of degree. When you suggest that one can become addicted to anything, you are indeed correct, and I apologize if I gave you the impression I was arguing to the contrary. But this does not mean that all addiction is the same. Can different people rationalize their addiction in a similar manner? Yes, but generalizations of addiction is a rehabilitative strategy, meant to break down preconceived notions that can get in the way of treatment. In fact, there is an increasing amount of criticism being leveled at the "________ Anonymous" method of treatment, in that success rates pale in comparison to more individual foci. In any case, here are some drug profiles.
From wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetrahydrocannabinol "The pharmacological actions of THC result from its partial agonist activity at the cannabinoid receptor CB1, located mainly in the central nervous system, and the CB2 receptor, mainly expressed in cells of the immune system.[11] The psychoactive effects of THC are primarily mediated by its activation of CB1G-protein coupled receptors, which result in a decrease in the concentration of the second messenger molecule cAMP through inhibition of adenylate cyclase.[12] The presence of these specialized cannabinoid receptors in the brain led researchers to the discovery of endocannabinoids, such as anandamide and 2-arachidonoyl glyceride (2-AG). THC targets receptors in a manner far less selective than endocannabinoid molecules released during retrograde signaling, as the drug has a relatively low cannabinoid receptor efficacy and affinity. In populations of low cannabinoid receptor density, THC may act to antagonize endogenous agonists that possess greater receptor efficacy.[13] THC is a lipophilic molecule and may bind non-specifically to a variety of receptors in the brain and body, such as adipose tissue. For a review of the mechanisms behind endocannabinoid synaptic transmission, see the endocannabinoid system. Several studies have suggested that THC also has an anticholinesterase action[14][15] which may implicate it as a potential treatment for Alzheimer's and Myasthenia Gravis."
From wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diacetylmorphine "Both morphine and 6-MAM are μ-opioid agonists that bind to receptors present throughout the brain, spinal cord, and gut of all mammals. The μ-opioid receptor also binds endogenous opioid peptides such as β-endorphin, Leu-enkephalin, and Met-enkephalin. Repeated use of heroin results in a number of physiological changes, including an increase in the production of μ-opioid receptors (upregulation).[citation needed] These physiological alterations lead to tolerance and dependence, so that cessation of heroin use results in a set of remarkably uncomfortable symptoms including pain, anxiety, muscle spasms, and insomnia called the opioid withdrawal syndrome. Depending on usage it has an onset four to 24 hours after the last dose of heroin. Morphine also binds to δ- and κ-opioid receptors."
So you see, from the very outset of use the effects of various drugs are profoundly different on the brain, and long term use/addiction effects are different in the same sense. Heroin addiction's hallmark is a remarkable increase and proliferation of μ-opioid receptors, and when one attempts to abstain from heroin use, the lack of stimulation of said receptors is what prompts the bulk of physiological/psychological effects of heroin addiction. Thc use, on the other hand, is profoundly different in terms of short and long term effects on the brain, and in fact researchers are to this day having a difficult time pinning down the entirety of the chemical's effect on the brain. What we do know is that the effects of the drug revolve around receptors CB1 and CB2 (worthy of note here is the proliferation of CB2 receptors in immune system cells, which throws everybody for a loop). In any case, the moral of the story is that different drugs/activities prompt different addictive responses.
Nothing is harmless, and humans have the uncanny ability to form habits around anything. I'll leave you with this article, and although it is one amongst many, it is a fairly accurate measure of relative effects of different drugs. http://www.economist.com/blogs/dailychart/2010/11/drugs_cause_most_harm
On June 15 2012 21:15 Wrongspeedy wrote: Alcohol and Marijauna release Dopamine as well. Actually last time I checked Dopamine is just one of the chemicals our brains use to experience pleasure. Sex, Gambling, Drugs whatever it is, Dopamine probably plays a role. And of course when you depend on high amounts of it frequently your Hedonic Set Point is raised higher and requires more Dopamine to get the same effect.
I am currently attending AA and MA (marijauna anonymous) meetings 7+ times a week, and they have helped me a lot (I haven't taken a mind or mood altering substance in 61 days ^_^, which is the longest I have ever gone since I started using them 8 years ago). Its just nice to know your not alone, and many many many people have experienced the same thing as you and are willing to talk about that openly and honestly. I honestly could not stop using until I started going to these groups and started to be completely honest with other people, that allowed me to be honest with myself.
I was in outpatient treatment for 2 months and relapsing frequently even while being drug tested with the threat of losing my job or being recommended for inpatient. :S
Now I feel pretty good and I am actually dealing with my life one problem at a time, not to mention I actually just get out and do shit. Hiking, rock climbing, trying new foods with friends, reading, biking, making music. I never had time for other people or things when all I cared about was getting high.
Weed is not the most harmless shit on the planet(It is a stimulant, a depressant, and a halucinogen). Kittens, Puppies, and Babies are far less harmless. Weed will bitch slap you like non-other if you let it. I know for a fact that some meth addicts, coke addicts, and herion addicts will admit that weed was harder for them to quit. People that say its not addictive are full of shit. Some people don't have a problem with it, but that doesn't change the fact that many people do. I spent almost 300 hundred dollars a week on it and could not stop on my own, even when I wanted to.
Oh and like I said at the beginning of my post, it releases dopamine, so you never really conquered dopamine abuse (after 3 days! Think about how much longer your going to be alive!). You probably will never "conquer" it, because your brain won't stop making it until you are dead (or you have a disease that stops it from producing). All you can do is know your faults and control yourself.
Anyways, congrats on making positive changes in your life, not trying to be a downer on you. But I felt like I should share part of my experience. Weed made me want to die, I was angry, isolated, and depressed every day and life had no purpose except to work (so that I could afford to spend over 13k a year on Weed) and get high. And getting high was never as fun as the first time.
Some people don't have problems with things like Alchohol, Weed, Sex. For other people it will literally ruin or take their lives away.
I'm gonna have to strongly disagree with whoever is telling you weed is harder to quit than heroin or cocaine. I'm currently 28 years old. I've smoked weed on and off since high school. I was also an opiate addict for 4 years (oxycontin, then evetnually heroin, sniffed not intravenous) and have also been addicted to cocaine and cigarettes for stints in my life.
Weed was definitely the easiest thing for me to quit, compared to the other drugs. It required little effort, there are virtually no physical withdrawal symptoms, it's almost all mental. If you told me I'd either have to quit weed or heroin cold turkey I'll take weed everytime no question. have you ever gone through opiate withdrawal? it's like hell on earth.. I would say cigarettes and opiates are probably the hardest substances to quit.. I know benzos are extremely hard too but I've never really done those (like xanex etc.)
Also no offense but I personally think it's silly weed is viewed as something you need to go get help for to quit. (I always thought MA was methadone anonymous.. Marijuana anonymous??.. it's just funny for someone who's had to go through real drug withdrawal.. I mean inpatient treatment for weed? does that even exist?) Alcohol is more understandable, but both things in moderation really are relatively harmless. MODERATION.. it's key to everything. Why does everything have to be all out or nothing? I still choose to smoke weed today (I quit for 4 years) and drink alchol on weekends, and they are far less destructive than the other harder drugs (still need to be careful with alcohol). I do it in moderation, and I don't view it as something that controls me or my life, like opiates used to. I have a great job, make good money, I have motivation to work out 3-4 times a week. Really the only thing weed does is make me a little lazy and tired at times, but again it's something I could quit easily if I wanted to, all you need is a little willpower. I really don't see a need to atm since it's not effecting my life negatively. Opiates on the other hand destroyed my life, and alcohol can do the same if you drink everyday.. I just don't think marijuana should be grouped with things like heroin, cocaine.. even alcohol.. it really is not the same..
Thats a nice opinion. I didn't say all herion and coke addicts felt that way, just that I personally know some who do. Willpower has nothing to do with it. My willpower was for buying more drugs, my favorite happened to be MJ.
Ciggs are harder to quit than just about anything, but people don't give a shit about them. And for you to say that MJ doesn't deserve to be in the same class as other narcotics because thats your Opinion; is just that, Your Opinion. I didn't say everyone who smokes weed will have a problem with it. I have friends who smoke an eigth every two weeks between themselves and their gf's. I smoked that in a day easy, Every Single Day. I am not saying that its impossible to use responsibly, only that its impossible for some people to use responsibly.
There are plenty of people in MA who have made your Opiate abuse look like childs play, and then had a hard time quitting MJ. MJ also has withdrawl, maybe not as bad as herion or alcohol; but for me personally, not sleeping for 2 weeks, not feeling like I could eat anything, having headaches for 2 months, and in general just being pissed off all the time, count as withdrawl. Weed is a real drug. Alcohol is a drug PERIOD. You offend me when you talk about real drug withdrawls.
While your at it, why don't you just tell HeavOnEarth to just keep fapping away because its not hardcore enough for you.
No, just no. It is not an opinion, it is hard fact backed by addiction rates, by measures of bodily harm, by measures of societal impact. Violence rates, weapons charges, and companion illegalities are almost non-existent with marijuana, whereas with cocaine and methamphetamine they are considered standard fare. Just because quitting marijuana was difficult for you does not somehow change these things, and to then take the haughty road of claiming offense? Well, since reality is apparently dictated by anecdotal experience, here's an anecdote for you.
I was a part of the central Ohio drug scene for 5 years, during which I sold drugs, lived with drug dealers, and did many drugs myself. Wow, you can smoke an eighth of weed a day, what an addict you were! I've seen kids spit into a spoon, dissolve dmt in said spit, and inject it. I've seen women acquiesce to horrible acts of multiple partner sex just so they could stave off their dope sickness with some methadone. A friend of mine once became so delusional on massive doses of Xanax that he attempted to rob a grocery store with a golf club during the middle of the night. I'm not proud of some of the things I've done and the people I've consorted with, but I do value the lessons they've taught me when it comes to what the use of mind-altering chemicals can do to the human brain."There are plenty of people in MA who have made your opiate abuse look like childs play," This is garbage straight out of a 1950's after-school special, and has no basis in any reality, not even one warped by drugs. Have you ever held someone in your arms while they went through opiate withdrawal? I will never forget the smell of her sweat, the violent shaking of her limbs, or the nonsensical pleas for dope that slurred out in between bouts of vomiting. She died a week later, after a rebound injection in a new place proved too much for her already frail person.
This is where I'm gonna get even more politically incorrect. One cannot bring up addiction without discussing weakness, the two go hand in hand. I've seen kids get through medical school with a needle in their arm, and I've seen "psychonauts" flounder for years on dreams of discovering a truth that does not exist, and the difference ends up being weakness. Maybe you actually did know some people who hit rock bottom on marijuana, what I'm tlling you is that they were weak, plain and simple. If you happen to be too weak to consume psychadelic substances, then that is FINE! But stop there, because when you start to tell me that thc and diacetylmorphine have the same effect, well thats just bullshit.
To the OP, good luck friend. Life's trials and tribulations are what make the good parts of life so sweet.
You act like because people choose to go to MA the only drug they ever did is MJ (the point saying that people in MA made his opiate abuse look like childs play was because there are plenty of Herion/Opiate addicts in MA). Addiction is addiction. People in Narcotics Anonymous see it that way, why can't you? The physical symptoms may change from one drug to another, but the reasons for using and the process your brain uses to justify continuing to use are pretty much exactly the same.
As for your addiction rates, where are they, how were they collected? I can find a million different ways to pick apart "facts". What I was saying was my opinion, and I only said it because it pisses me off when someone trys to tell me that something is harmless when I have spent the last 4 months having people convince me its not. Outpatient groups, 12-step groups, work, family, friends.
Not really sure how to completely respond to your post honestly. I agree drugs are bad. I guess where we differ is what is a drug? Well the Federal Government classifies Weed as a Schedule 1 Narcotic (not that I even agree with that).
"(1) Schedule I.— (A) The drug or other substance has a high potential for abuse. (B) The drug or other substance has no currently accepted medical use in treatment in the United States. (C) There is a lack of accepted safety for use of the drug or other substance under medical supervision."
-gamma-Hydroxybutyric acid (GHB), which has been used as a general anaesthetic and for the treatment of narcolepsy and alcohol withdrawal with minimal side-effects [25] and controlled action but a limited safe dosage range. It was placed in Schedule I in March 2000 after widespread recreational use led to increased emergency room visits, hospitalizations, and deaths.[26] Uniquely, this drug is also listed in Schedule III for limited uses, under the trademark Xyrem; -12-Methoxyibogamine (Ibogaine), being reported to help in Heroin and other substance addiction -Marijuana including the Cannabis plant and its THC. Controversy exists about the placement of Marijuana in Schedule I. Like some other drugs in schedule I, there have been no reported cases of THC overdose. Main article: Removal of cannabis from Schedule I of the Controlled Substances Act. -Heroin (Diacetylmorphine), which is used in some European countries as a potent pain reliever in terminal cancer patients, and as second option, after morphine. (It is about twice as potent, by weight, as morphine.). In the United Kingdom it is also prescribed to intravenous heroin addicts who have not responded to, or are unable to tolerate methadone substitution therapy. -Other strong opiates and opioids used in many other countries, or even in the USA in previous decades for palliation of moderate to severe pain such as nicomorphine (Vilan), dextromoramide (Palfium), ketobemidone (Ketalgin), dihydromorphine (Paramorfan), piritramide (Dipidolor), diacetyldihydromorphine (Paralaudin), dipipanone (Wellconal), phenadoxone (Heptalgin) and many others. -Weak opioids used for relief of moderate pain, diarrhea, and coughing such as benzylmorphine (Peronine), nicocodeine (Tusscodin), Dihydrocodeinone enol acetate, tilidine (Valoron), meptazinol (Meptid), propiram (Algeril), acetyldihydrocodeine and others. -Pholcodine, a weak opioid cough suppressant with negligible abuse potential[citation needed] which is available over-the-counter in many other countries. -MDMA (3,4-methylenedioxymethamphetamine, Ecstasy), which continues to be used medically, notably in the treatment of post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD). The medical community originally agreed upon placing it as a Schedule III substance, but the government denied this suggestion, despite two court rulings by the DEA's administrative law judge that placing MDMA in Schedule I was illegal. It was temporarily unscheduled after the first administrative hearing from December 22, 1987 - July 1, 1988.[27] -Psilocybin, the active ingredient in psychedelic mushrooms; -5-MeO-DIPT (Foxy / Foxy Methoxy / 5-methoxy-N,N-diisopropyltryptamine) -Lysergic acid diethylamide ("LSD" / "Acid"), formerly used in psychotherapy, and the best known treatment for alcoholism to date.[28] -Peyote, a cactus growing in nature primarily in northeastern Mexico; one of the few plants specifically scheduled, with a narrow exception to its legal status for religious use by members of the Native American Church; -Mescaline, the main psychoactive ingredients of the peyote, san pedro, achuma, and Peruvian torch cacti; -Methaqualone (Quaalude, Sopor, Mandrax), a sedative that was previously used for similar purposes as barbiturates, until it was rescheduled; -2,5-dimethoxy-4-methylamphetamine (STP / DOM), a psychotropic hallucinogen that rose to prominence in 1967 in San Francisco when it appeared in pill form (known as "STP", in doses as high as four times the amounts previously considered "safe") on the black market; -2C-T-7 (Blue Mystic / T7), a psychotropic entheogen; -2C-B (Nexus / Bees / Venus / Bromo Mescaline), a psychotropic hallucinogen and aphrodisiac; -Cathinone (β-ketoamphetamine), a monoamine alkaloid found in the shrub Catha edulis (Khat); -AMT (alpha-methyltryptamine), an anti-depressant from the tryptamine family; first developed in the Soviet Union and marketed under the brand name Indopan; -Bufotenin (5-OH-DMT), a naturally-occurring tryptamine with hallucinogenic and aphrodisiac properties; named for the Bufo genus of toads whose poison contains the chemical;[29] -Benzylpiperazine (BZP), a synthetic drug also known as "party pills" or "herbal highs" is nearly indistinguishable from dexamphetamine and similar to MDMA. It has been shown to be associated with an increase in seizures if taken alone.[30] Although the effects of BZP are not as potent as MDMA, it can produce neuroadaptions that can cause an increase in the potential for abuse of this drug.[31]
^ Thats a fact, feel free to pick it apart in all its boldness.
I don't think I ever said it was easier to get off Herion than it is MJ. I'm trying to make a point that its addictive (because thats part of the stigma attached to weed, "its harmless, and not addictive", which in turn makes it harder for people to admit it was a problem for them). And all you want to do, I guess, is call people weak (people you don't know).
More stories I guess. One of my best friends is a Herion addict. He currently is not using Herion, but cannot stop smoking ganja or drinking alcohol. I'm not trying to say Herion is easier to quit, but some people do have a hard time quitting substances with "easier" withdrawls. Call them weak or whatever you want, I won't call them anything.
I am fucking Proud to say I am an Addict. The more I say it and believe it, the less likely I am going to let myself go back out. Does the thought of dropping acid and taking bong rips excite me? Hell yes, but thats part of the reason why I cannot do it anymore.
On June 15 2012 21:15 Wrongspeedy wrote: Alcohol and Marijauna release Dopamine as well. Actually last time I checked Dopamine is just one of the chemicals our brains use to experience pleasure. Sex, Gambling, Drugs whatever it is, Dopamine probably plays a role. And of course when you depend on high amounts of it frequently your Hedonic Set Point is raised higher and requires more Dopamine to get the same effect.
I am currently attending AA and MA (marijauna anonymous) meetings 7+ times a week, and they have helped me a lot (I haven't taken a mind or mood altering substance in 61 days ^_^, which is the longest I have ever gone since I started using them 8 years ago). Its just nice to know your not alone, and many many many people have experienced the same thing as you and are willing to talk about that openly and honestly. I honestly could not stop using until I started going to these groups and started to be completely honest with other people, that allowed me to be honest with myself.
I was in outpatient treatment for 2 months and relapsing frequently even while being drug tested with the threat of losing my job or being recommended for inpatient. :S
Now I feel pretty good and I am actually dealing with my life one problem at a time, not to mention I actually just get out and do shit. Hiking, rock climbing, trying new foods with friends, reading, biking, making music. I never had time for other people or things when all I cared about was getting high.
Weed is not the most harmless shit on the planet(It is a stimulant, a depressant, and a halucinogen). Kittens, Puppies, and Babies are far less harmless. Weed will bitch slap you like non-other if you let it. I know for a fact that some meth addicts, coke addicts, and herion addicts will admit that weed was harder for them to quit. People that say its not addictive are full of shit. Some people don't have a problem with it, but that doesn't change the fact that many people do. I spent almost 300 hundred dollars a week on it and could not stop on my own, even when I wanted to.
Oh and like I said at the beginning of my post, it releases dopamine, so you never really conquered dopamine abuse (after 3 days! Think about how much longer your going to be alive!). You probably will never "conquer" it, because your brain won't stop making it until you are dead (or you have a disease that stops it from producing). All you can do is know your faults and control yourself.
Anyways, congrats on making positive changes in your life, not trying to be a downer on you. But I felt like I should share part of my experience. Weed made me want to die, I was angry, isolated, and depressed every day and life had no purpose except to work (so that I could afford to spend over 13k a year on Weed) and get high. And getting high was never as fun as the first time.
Some people don't have problems with things like Alchohol, Weed, Sex. For other people it will literally ruin or take their lives away.
I'm gonna have to strongly disagree with whoever is telling you weed is harder to quit than heroin or cocaine. I'm currently 28 years old. I've smoked weed on and off since high school. I was also an opiate addict for 4 years (oxycontin, then evetnually heroin, sniffed not intravenous) and have also been addicted to cocaine and cigarettes for stints in my life.
Weed was definitely the easiest thing for me to quit, compared to the other drugs. It required little effort, there are virtually no physical withdrawal symptoms, it's almost all mental. If you told me I'd either have to quit weed or heroin cold turkey I'll take weed everytime no question. have you ever gone through opiate withdrawal? it's like hell on earth.. I would say cigarettes and opiates are probably the hardest substances to quit.. I know benzos are extremely hard too but I've never really done those (like xanex etc.)
Also no offense but I personally think it's silly weed is viewed as something you need to go get help for to quit. (I always thought MA was methadone anonymous.. Marijuana anonymous??.. it's just funny for someone who's had to go through real drug withdrawal.. I mean inpatient treatment for weed? does that even exist?) Alcohol is more understandable, but both things in moderation really are relatively harmless. MODERATION.. it's key to everything. Why does everything have to be all out or nothing? I still choose to smoke weed today (I quit for 4 years) and drink alchol on weekends, and they are far less destructive than the other harder drugs (still need to be careful with alcohol). I do it in moderation, and I don't view it as something that controls me or my life, like opiates used to. I have a great job, make good money, I have motivation to work out 3-4 times a week. Really the only thing weed does is make me a little lazy and tired at times, but again it's something I could quit easily if I wanted to, all you need is a little willpower. I really don't see a need to atm since it's not effecting my life negatively. Opiates on the other hand destroyed my life, and alcohol can do the same if you drink everyday.. I just don't think marijuana should be grouped with things like heroin, cocaine.. even alcohol.. it really is not the same..
Thats a nice opinion. I didn't say all herion and coke addicts felt that way, just that I personally know some who do. Willpower has nothing to do with it. My willpower was for buying more drugs, my favorite happened to be MJ.
Ciggs are harder to quit than just about anything, but people don't give a shit about them. And for you to say that MJ doesn't deserve to be in the same class as other narcotics because thats your Opinion; is just that, Your Opinion. I didn't say everyone who smokes weed will have a problem with it. I have friends who smoke an eigth every two weeks between themselves and their gf's. I smoked that in a day easy, Every Single Day. I am not saying that its impossible to use responsibly, only that its impossible for some people to use responsibly.
There are plenty of people in MA who have made your Opiate abuse look like childs play, and then had a hard time quitting MJ. MJ also has withdrawl, maybe not as bad as herion or alcohol; but for me personally, not sleeping for 2 weeks, not feeling like I could eat anything, having headaches for 2 months, and in general just being pissed off all the time, count as withdrawl. Weed is a real drug. Alcohol is a drug PERIOD. You offend me when you talk about real drug withdrawls.
While your at it, why don't you just tell HeavOnEarth to just keep fapping away because its not hardcore enough for you.
No, just no. It is not an opinion, it is hard fact backed by addiction rates, by measures of bodily harm, by measures of societal impact. Violence rates, weapons charges, and companion illegalities are almost non-existent with marijuana, whereas with cocaine and methamphetamine they are considered standard fare. Just because quitting marijuana was difficult for you does not somehow change these things, and to then take the haughty road of claiming offense? Well, since reality is apparently dictated by anecdotal experience, here's an anecdote for you.
I was a part of the central Ohio drug scene for 5 years, during which I sold drugs, lived with drug dealers, and did many drugs myself. Wow, you can smoke an eighth of weed a day, what an addict you were! I've seen kids spit into a spoon, dissolve dmt in said spit, and inject it. I've seen women acquiesce to horrible acts of multiple partner sex just so they could stave off their dope sickness with some methadone. A friend of mine once became so delusional on massive doses of Xanax that he attempted to rob a grocery store with a golf club during the middle of the night. I'm not proud of some of the things I've done and the people I've consorted with, but I do value the lessons they've taught me when it comes to what the use of mind-altering chemicals can do to the human brain."There are plenty of people in MA who have made your opiate abuse look like childs play," This is garbage straight out of a 1950's after-school special, and has no basis in any reality, not even one warped by drugs. Have you ever held someone in your arms while they went through opiate withdrawal? I will never forget the smell of her sweat, the violent shaking of her limbs, or the nonsensical pleas for dope that slurred out in between bouts of vomiting. She died a week later, after a rebound injection in a new place proved too much for her already frail person.
This is where I'm gonna get even more politically incorrect. One cannot bring up addiction without discussing weakness, the two go hand in hand. I've seen kids get through medical school with a needle in their arm, and I've seen "psychonauts" flounder for years on dreams of discovering a truth that does not exist, and the difference ends up being weakness. Maybe you actually did know some people who hit rock bottom on marijuana, what I'm tlling you is that they were weak, plain and simple. If you happen to be too weak to consume psychadelic substances, then that is FINE! But stop there, because when you start to tell me that thc and diacetylmorphine have the same effect, well thats just bullshit.
"To the OP, good luck friend. Life's trials and tribulations are what make the good parts of life so sweet."
What? Not gonna call HeavOnEarth weak too?
First off, we are all weak, its simply a question of degree. When you suggest that one can become addicted to anything, you are indeed correct, and I apologize if I gave you the impression I was arguing to the contrary. But this does not mean that all addiction is the same. Can different people rationalize their addiction in a similar manner? Yes, but generalizations of addiction is a rehabilitative strategy, meant to break down preconceived notions that can get in the way of treatment. In fact, there is an increasing amount of criticism being leveled at the "________ Anonymous" method of treatment, in that success rates pale in comparison to more individual foci. In any case, here are some drug profiles.
From wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetrahydrocannabinol "The pharmacological actions of THC result from its partial agonist activity at the cannabinoid receptor CB1, located mainly in the central nervous system, and the CB2 receptor, mainly expressed in cells of the immune system.[11] The psychoactive effects of THC are primarily mediated by its activation of CB1G-protein coupled receptors, which result in a decrease in the concentration of the second messenger molecule cAMP through inhibition of adenylate cyclase.[12] The presence of these specialized cannabinoid receptors in the brain led researchers to the discovery of endocannabinoids, such as anandamide and 2-arachidonoyl glyceride (2-AG). THC targets receptors in a manner far less selective than endocannabinoid molecules released during retrograde signaling, as the drug has a relatively low cannabinoid receptor efficacy and affinity. In populations of low cannabinoid receptor density, THC may act to antagonize endogenous agonists that possess greater receptor efficacy.[13] THC is a lipophilic molecule and may bind non-specifically to a variety of receptors in the brain and body, such as adipose tissue. For a review of the mechanisms behind endocannabinoid synaptic transmission, see the endocannabinoid system. Several studies have suggested that THC also has an anticholinesterase action[14][15] which may implicate it as a potential treatment for Alzheimer's and Myasthenia Gravis."
From wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diacetylmorphine "Both morphine and 6-MAM are μ-opioid agonists that bind to receptors present throughout the brain, spinal cord, and gut of all mammals. The μ-opioid receptor also binds endogenous opioid peptides such as β-endorphin, Leu-enkephalin, and Met-enkephalin. Repeated use of heroin results in a number of physiological changes, including an increase in the production of μ-opioid receptors (upregulation).[citation needed] These physiological alterations lead to tolerance and dependence, so that cessation of heroin use results in a set of remarkably uncomfortable symptoms including pain, anxiety, muscle spasms, and insomnia called the opioid withdrawal syndrome. Depending on usage it has an onset four to 24 hours after the last dose of heroin. Morphine also binds to δ- and κ-opioid receptors."
So you see, from the very outset of use the effects of various drugs are profoundly different on the brain, and long term use/addiction effects are different in the same sense. Heroin addiction's hallmark is a remarkable increase and proliferation of μ-opioid receptors, and when one attempts to abstain from heroin use, the lack of stimulation of said receptors is what prompts the bulk of physiological/psychological effects of heroin addiction. Thc use, on the other hand, is profoundly different in terms of short and long term effects on the brain, and in fact researchers are to this day having a difficult time pinning down the entirety of the chemical's effect on the brain. What we do know is that the effects of the drug revolve around receptors CB1 and CB2 (worthy of note here is the proliferation of CB2 receptors in immune system cells, which throws everybody for a loop). In any case, the moral of the story is that different drugs/activities prompt different addictive responses.
Nothing is harmless, and humans have the uncanny ability to form habits around anything. I'll leave you with this article, and although it is one amongst many, it is a fairly accurate measure of relative effects of different drugs. http://www.economist.com/blogs/dailychart/2010/11/drugs_cause_most_harm
Edit:Spoiler
Our brains all produce the same chemicals to experience pleasure. The dopamine kick that HeavOnEarth gets from masturbating is the same dopamine kick drug addicts get. There are other chemicals involved as well, but dopamine is probably the most famous from the pleasure center of the brain. The physical symtoms from withdrawal last a relatively short time compared to the mental ones.
That last article is really good, though I think its skewed towards the sheer number of people that are addicted to alchohol and the fact that you can straight up die from alchohol withdrawal. Its hard to say much about Marijauna addiction because its a field where there is almost no research. All research that has been done is only in the last 20 years, and most people with Marijauna addiction also tend to abuse other drugs (including alchohol).
In general I am a defensive person, but there are times when I also feel its justified to stick up for myself. I feel like in general, potheads get a bad rap. Its really easy for people to label Marijauna as harmless, but even in that article from the economist, it is clearly not labeled as harmless. Atleast if I express my opinion when someone says something I find offensive I no longer have to mull it over myself. I get to wait and see how they respond and I no longer have to worry about how people will view my opinion.
Its an addicts nature to hide, and conceal their true feelings. To put up a front that they know other people will agree with. It takes balls to stand up for yourself when you know other people won't agree or might misunderstand what your saying, but you also get to sleep a lot better at night when you do it.
I am not telling people not to smoke weed or even do other drugs (most studies show that Ciggs are more addictive than Cocaine or Herion ; P ). I am telling them it was a problem for me. I love weed, but one hit is never enough, and a few is too many. 5 months ago I would have said my favorite place on TL was the High Thread, now I cannot stand to go there more than once every two weeks (still fun to read, I am a Stoner). And I am sure as hell not about to go there to tell people to stop doing something they enjoy.
This thread is about behavioral addiction and I don't even need to justify defending myself when I feel like I am being discriminated against. But I will explain it. I live in the State that was the first State to move MJ from a Schedule I drug to a Schedule II drug (maybe the only state as well). And its fucking every where. I walk down the street and I smell it every where. I walk down the street and I get shoulder tapped for it. I go hiking and I watch people getting stoned on the trails. I see Medical Shops and Head Shops every where. And I have/had many friends in the past that told me I could not get addicted to it. But if I am open about it, maybe someone else who is feeling the same way will be a little less ashamed to admit maybe they have a problem too!
I won't defend 12 step groups. They don't need to be defended. Some of them are crap, some of them save peoples lives. I found one that I am comfortable enough saying is my new family. Nothing personal against my old family, but they weren't always the best support, and we all need to move on with our lives. I know Bill and Bob and I know their foundation of one addict helping another is what worked for me. Damnit.
Just told my dad about everything i've been going through(he didnt know about my school hiatus, or cheating, But he did know about weed) + Show Spoiler [storyaboutbeingdisowned] +
JK, he was really supportive and happy that i was improving myself.
i also told him in the end i was able to figure everything out and improve myself was because of how i was raised by him and you shouldve seen his face haha . his face lit up like a christmas tree and started fiddling his hands in happiness needless to say quitting is gonna be a breeze for me now
On June 17 2012 07:09 HeavOnEarth wrote: Just told my dad about everything i've been going through(he didnt know about my school hiatus, or cheating, But he did know about weed) + Show Spoiler [storyaboutbeingdisowned] +
JK, he was really supportive and happy that i was improving myself.
i also told him in the end i was able to figure everything out and improve myself was because of how i was raised by him and you shouldve seen his face haha . his face lit up like a christmas tree and started fiddling his hands in happiness needless to say quitting is gonna be a breeze for me now
I'll give you fair warning and say I only read the first third of your blog because I felt like I was getting the general gist of it and wanted to respond. Don't read what I've written if you don't think that will be adequate.
I know that PMO or whatever you wanna call it is the new hip thing to be concerned about. There's been a lot of articles about it very recently and they're not very intelligently written. What I'm reading when you describe how you felt sounds like depression, and you're trying to pin it down on pornography. I won't defend pornography as a moral institution, but I will say the arguments currently being made against it with regards to dopamine are flimsy at best. The whole spiel about novelty and everything, and being like a rat in a cage that keeps pressing the 'give me cocaine' button are not well founded. You are basically using PMO as a scapegoat for your problems right now, the way alcoholics use alcoholism to describe all their problems. In the end, the people who identify themselves under these diseases suffer the most relapses and the most trouble in overcoming their addictions, because they see them as more powerful than they are. You aren't the only kid who watched porn in university, man. Most people didn't fail because of it. If you failed it's because you were dealing with a lot of other issues, such as the increased difficulty of the material (I don't care about your GPA in first year or high school...), or the fact that teachers don't keep up to date with you or know your name, and you hardly get to know anyone if you don't try really hard because you see them at most 3 hours per week.
Do you see where I'm going... Don't fall into the trap of seeing whatever this is as the source of all your problems. The issues are almost always much deeper and much more about your personality and your situation in life and how you deal with it. You could have been 'adling your brain with dopamine from porn' or you could have been running to a quiet part of the library and thinking about life the whole day not doing any work. The impact you're talking about is dramatic, where the regular release of dopamine is just a normal part of life. You see new things you get excited about them you feel happy. New food, new possessions, new sights, new people. If you were super social and getting dopamine shots from meeting new people, you would consider it a proper reward for good behaviour. The only problem with porn is that it's a total waste of time that doesn't progress your life at all. So my take home message is... You got depressed because you were wasting your time and looking back at your time and seeing you'd accomplished nothing... not because you had an overly regular dosage of dopamine. You're not a god damn monkey or rat in a cage with coke, you could have stopped looking at porn and made rational decisions about your life. Same problem with alcoholics... They think the drug controls them, but it is them making the choice each time, just out of habit.
tl;dr: I guess if I could sum it up, my main problem with the whole porn and dopamine addiction thing is that you could apply 'dopamine addiction' to just about any unproductive hobby. Stop listening to music because your brain is getting addicted to it by releasing dopamine!!' ... Give me a break. I guess they argue it's more powerful with porn, but I am not convinced. Many people listen to music daily their whole lives! now that's addiction ;p
With your current rationalizations, one day you're gonna be like 'man today was really hard, I could really use a dose of dopamine' and just look at porn 'this one time' because you'll think if you control your production of dopamine it's not as bad. That's the way it is with alcoholics, and then after they've done it they remember the part of about 'addiction' they read, and think they're helpless to stop, think about it way too much, and just fall back into a bad habit. I have seen it so many times... Your rationalization should be 'man I waste a lot of time on this, I should stop and do something productive' not 'this is an evil drug controlling me!!'
@chef, i barely identify with many people(ie nearly everyone on reddit) who blame PMO for all their problems. i think they are weak willed and have several other issues in their life to address and yes they are using PMO not as a problem, but a solution to all their shortcomings. That said, read the rest of my blog, and possibly the comments i've made throughout this thread if you get the chance. i am not one of those idiots on reddit that relapse after seeing anything slightly provocative- they need more help in other areas.
I don't know the specifics of how i overcame my depression-esque symptoms if what i've written isn't true. But what i can definitely tell u was, quitting PMO was the first step, or at least a very important one. I attribute it as a test of willpower rather than dopamine abuse at this point, but i still feel my story is fairly accurate and not as logically fallacious as you've stated
Also, i have not come even close to relapsing thus far(altho i guess i covered that bit earlier unknowingly if u read the blog it would be more clear). Lifes been eZ and great without it and i feel MUCH stronger mentally.
;edit; But yeah actually no you're completely wrong. I just sat down for 30 minutes contemplating if everything u said was true. How do u explain my sudden increase in willpower, if i could quantify it it would be nearly 100 times stronger than i previously had it. How do u explain that i ENJOY life more , and that i can FEEL my senses more, i could barely taste food, barely felt pain when i worked out, my eyesight has literally improved for the first time in years and its been slowly declining every visit to the eye doctor. how do u explain me resolving my extreme social anxiety, out of nowhere , when i used to be too anxious to even speak to my own father, mother, sister. you're wrong about me, and i don't appreciate the judgment since you've only read 1/3 of my blog.
That said, Im still thankful for the advice nonetheless and you're a good person to take time out of your day to tell me what you've seen and i have the utmost respect for that.
Now i've read somewhere that quitting at first, for a week, gives u this adderal-esque efect that fades away. WHICH could potentially change my mind about everything i've just written, and accept your logic. in which case ill glady eat my words and .. do everything ive been doing this far anyways(im just trying to improve myself in anyway, not pin all my troubles on PMO). But until THIS newfound strength that i have dissipates , ill believe otherwise
For example, a few of my new hobbies include meditating, and browsing the self-improvement section on StumbleUpon
;edit2; hmm i just realized that everything ive listed can be attributed to depression, and the whole senses thing could be attributed to weed. One of my favorite hobbies when i was doing poorly was to just randomly hide where there was no other people, sometimes to just rub one out but mostly to just get away from everything
ill have to think this out some more, but still its like PMO or depression wtF u wanna call it doesnt matter. ill overcome it all. But yeah, i'll be super wary of falling into the same trap you've seen other people fall into. I appreciate the advice a lot, thanks. u da man , chef
On June 15 2012 21:15 Wrongspeedy wrote: Alcohol and Marijauna release Dopamine as well. Actually last time I checked Dopamine is just one of the chemicals our brains use to experience pleasure. Sex, Gambling, Drugs whatever it is, Dopamine probably plays a role. And of course when you depend on high amounts of it frequently your Hedonic Set Point is raised higher and requires more Dopamine to get the same effect.
I am currently attending AA and MA (marijauna anonymous) meetings 7+ times a week, and they have helped me a lot (I haven't taken a mind or mood altering substance in 61 days ^_^, which is the longest I have ever gone since I started using them 8 years ago). Its just nice to know your not alone, and many many many people have experienced the same thing as you and are willing to talk about that openly and honestly. I honestly could not stop using until I started going to these groups and started to be completely honest with other people, that allowed me to be honest with myself.
I was in outpatient treatment for 2 months and relapsing frequently even while being drug tested with the threat of losing my job or being recommended for inpatient. :S
Now I feel pretty good and I am actually dealing with my life one problem at a time, not to mention I actually just get out and do shit. Hiking, rock climbing, trying new foods with friends, reading, biking, making music. I never had time for other people or things when all I cared about was getting high.
Weed is not the most harmless shit on the planet(It is a stimulant, a depressant, and a halucinogen). Kittens, Puppies, and Babies are far less harmless. Weed will bitch slap you like non-other if you let it. I know for a fact that some meth addicts, coke addicts, and herion addicts will admit that weed was harder for them to quit. People that say its not addictive are full of shit. Some people don't have a problem with it, but that doesn't change the fact that many people do. I spent almost 300 hundred dollars a week on it and could not stop on my own, even when I wanted to.
Oh and like I said at the beginning of my post, it releases dopamine, so you never really conquered dopamine abuse (after 3 days! Think about how much longer your going to be alive!). You probably will never "conquer" it, because your brain won't stop making it until you are dead (or you have a disease that stops it from producing). All you can do is know your faults and control yourself.
Anyways, congrats on making positive changes in your life, not trying to be a downer on you. But I felt like I should share part of my experience. Weed made me want to die, I was angry, isolated, and depressed every day and life had no purpose except to work (so that I could afford to spend over 13k a year on Weed) and get high. And getting high was never as fun as the first time.
Some people don't have problems with things like Alchohol, Weed, Sex. For other people it will literally ruin or take their lives away.
I'm gonna have to strongly disagree with whoever is telling you weed is harder to quit than heroin or cocaine. I'm currently 28 years old. I've smoked weed on and off since high school. I was also an opiate addict for 4 years (oxycontin, then evetnually heroin, sniffed not intravenous) and have also been addicted to cocaine and cigarettes for stints in my life.
Weed was definitely the easiest thing for me to quit, compared to the other drugs. It required little effort, there are virtually no physical withdrawal symptoms, it's almost all mental. If you told me I'd either have to quit weed or heroin cold turkey I'll take weed everytime no question. have you ever gone through opiate withdrawal? it's like hell on earth.. I would say cigarettes and opiates are probably the hardest substances to quit.. I know benzos are extremely hard too but I've never really done those (like xanex etc.)
Also no offense but I personally think it's silly weed is viewed as something you need to go get help for to quit. (I always thought MA was methadone anonymous.. Marijuana anonymous??.. it's just funny for someone who's had to go through real drug withdrawal.. I mean inpatient treatment for weed? does that even exist?) Alcohol is more understandable, but both things in moderation really are relatively harmless. MODERATION.. it's key to everything. Why does everything have to be all out or nothing? I still choose to smoke weed today (I quit for 4 years) and drink alchol on weekends, and they are far less destructive than the other harder drugs (still need to be careful with alcohol). I do it in moderation, and I don't view it as something that controls me or my life, like opiates used to. I have a great job, make good money, I have motivation to work out 3-4 times a week. Really the only thing weed does is make me a little lazy and tired at times, but again it's something I could quit easily if I wanted to, all you need is a little willpower. I really don't see a need to atm since it's not effecting my life negatively. Opiates on the other hand destroyed my life, and alcohol can do the same if you drink everyday.. I just don't think marijuana should be grouped with things like heroin, cocaine.. even alcohol.. it really is not the same..
Some people think its weak that you'd get addicted to opiates. Just because you had an easier time quitting weed than other people doesn't mean you need to look down on those that need help.
You, especially you, as a recovered addict, should know that behavior is disgusting.
Interesting read, I'd never even considered such a thing before. It kind of reminded me of how World of Warcraft made me feel for the 3 months I played it. I was just a zombine hanging out at work or with my fiance until I could log back in. All the best.
You've made a well thought out post and some good points, but I feel the need to comment on the specific issue at hand (pmo).
Yes it's true that the words "dopamine" and "novelty" are thrown around too much in a non-scientific way. However, it is a fact that pmo can be a very powerful addiction (and so can internet addiction and drinking and gambling among many other things). In fact I would say that it's relatively easier to get addicted to pmo because it provides an extremely convenient way to get a very good feeling when other things are not working out.
I don't care for flimsy science or pseudoscience, but it's a fact that people can become addicted to things, that pmo is increasing one of those things, and that addiction can have very negative consequences.
Moreover, it is definitely true that quitting an addiction wont be a miracle producing thing that cures all of one's woes. However, that doesn't mean it's not a very crucial step.
Perhaps you are a well-adjusted individual who functions well in society. In that case, you might not be able to understand the effects of serious addiction.
I am addicted to pmo as well, although not to the same extent as the OP. In fact, I would venture to say that it's my only real addiction. I am not a wreck at life and have had successes in various areas. However, upon quitting I have noticed truly significant changes, and cannot attribute them to any other significant lifestyle change such as the OP (who also quit weed). I have felt stronger emotions, memories and things that have been dulled for years somehow coming back. I have more vivid dreams and wake up refreshed on a consistent basis for the first time in years, with less sleep too. The dull brain fog I used to feel a lot of the time has significantly diminished. I feel more motivation and my ability to concentrate has increased.
In addiction, I have faced withdrawal symptoms such as severe mood swings or irritability at times.
I am not a scientist and will not pretend to understand all the biology and psychology underlying my experiences. However, I do know that it's not a simple matter of "feeling guilty about wasting time." When I used to do pmo I never felt guilt, I still got my shit done despite procrastinating a bit more than I should. It's not just a psychological change, it's a physical change that occurs due to a dramatic shift in lifestyle (denying your addiction).
The modern train of thought on porn and masturbation seems to be a strong reaction to the history of religious guilt and supression around it. Nowadays, whenever one recommends limiting pmo they have to preface it with: "Disclaimer: I'm not religious or saying this on moral grounds!"
Nowadays, people generally just get the impression that jacking off as much as possible or watching porn is fine. It's just a natural way to deal with your sexuality. To me that's like saying to an obese person that he can eat as much as he wants because it's just a response to his natural urge to eat.
I will like to revise , everything in the blog is still true, but it wasnt completely because of dopamine abuse. It was depression- actually still not entirely sure what brought it on but PMO definitely contributed
he other big problem with porn of course is the intense sense of internal inconsistency it gives you. What they call 'cognitive dissoance' in that maybe you have feminist values, but you get off to something that is really abusive. That is a fast track to stress, depression and helplessness.
Anyways, as i slowly as i got good at guitar(was able to play songs ive dreamed of playing for ages), came back home and was around my family( i missed them a lot, and i was distant from them since my teenage years of rebelZZ), enjoyed IPLs and MLGs because of progaming, so on so forth.
chef: What'll make you feel good is when you start looking back at how you spent your time and being ok with it
this is entirely true. i was a little depressed progamer, until it brought me lots of friends , even money, and people actually gave me respect and adoration when i said i was a progamer? Shit definitely lifted me up. But not for the reasons i said in my blog
Of course im no fool, i had 100% had a problem with PMO and weed and i'll avoid them at all costs, and honestly who needs it. I'll drink every now n then at partys and mlgs so forth, but life is better without it.
I've figured out the reason i suffered depression. When i was in my academy in high school, one of my best friends was involved in a hacking scandal. He changed grades, etc, and eventually the school was required to bring in private detectives to investigate. Being one of his closest friends, naturally i knew everything, and he had even changed some of my grades without me knowing, or at least i just thought he was kidding when he asked me. Nonetheless, i was sent to CAEP(not expelled like he was) for withholding information, and since i was already on academic probation for all the fights i used to get into(my school was like 95% niggers, aside from the academy and they pissed me the fuck off from time to time, id like to add i have a lot of respect for black people, and the ones i've met in university are some of the most hard working and intelligent, book AND street smart individuals i've come across) Anyways, my academy kicked me out because of the violation i made while already on probation, and i was forced to attend my other high school.
I lost contact with very important friends to me, self esteem, not to mention to reason i got fucked was because OF ME, i TRUSTED the private detective who MANIPULATED me and then tossed me aside like a cheap rag doll. Being a little happy trusting asian that i was, this SHATTERED not only my self esteem , because i handled the situation so poorly, but also my faith and trust in humans.
Letting go of the past was more important to me then i realized. I asked my mom what she thought and she explained, that they just had to make an example out of me, so that NO ONE would try something that this again. I was extremely unfortunate but of course i made the right move in trusting and being honest, because i had done nothing wrong. Im still extremely skeptical , and i feel its GOOD to be, but at least i don't despise the human race or something like that, haha.
Nam! We found a cure! You aren't struggling with PMO, you have caught the Victski! It is a combination of the Binski and Victor disease. Fortunately, we can cure the binski (lazy, unmotivated), but we cannot cure the Victor (rage quitting, PMS). Contact me ASAP for more information.
You think masterbaition was the cause of all your problems? Lmao what is this I dont even....
Did you ever fap beforehand or did you just start when you were in college or something? Porn addictions are real but this sounds like bro science bullshit.
Hey guys I noticed I feel good whenever I eat food and drink water, is this EFS (eat food syndrome)? I think it's causing too much dopamine to be released which is probably why I'm failing in school and why my life sucks so much. Are there any subreddits where people feel the same way? This is a serious problem and I really need a support group guys.
On July 02 2012 14:37 hersenen wrote: Hey guys I noticed I feel good whenever I eat food and drink water, is this EFS (eat food syndrome)? I think it's causing too much dopamine to be released which is probably why I'm failing in school and why my life sucks so much. Are there any subreddits where people feel the same way? This is a serious problem and I really need a support group guys.
I am too lazy to look it up but I would bet you there are subreddits for drinking and eating disorders. It's not such an outragious claim to assume the same effects with PMO.
Small update: its around day 20 for me , and im rather depressed + low energy, as opposed to the first week where i was a bouncing ball of productivity and positivity. the days i take off from the gym are usually the worst, but everything is improving rather well albeit some bad days ^^
one of the best motivators thus far is reading other peoples successes on the subreddit .
it wasn't so much a problem in of itself, aside from the cognitive dissonance thing i mentioned in the blog caused by the escalation . BUT it took my focus away from addressing the problems i have with my life, ie my life would be going shitty and i wouldn't care.
stopping masturbation therefore just allowed me to see the problems i have with myself and address them normally, as any person would usually.
That said, most of you would benefit seeing this as a challenge and an experiment, but obviously not me. for me its just a way of life i need to adopt in order to be functional in society.
Anyways, i've been going to the gym regularly(for 5 weeks now) , eating healthy , sleeping well , quitting progaming and going back to engineering. Theres also various other self improvement methods i've researched and tried out but i wont list them all.
I believe i'll switch to petroleum, but im just happy with going back to school seriously at this point. i still have a couple months before my semester starts, so if im able to achieve anything before then in sc2 it would be nice, but not something i will base my happiness around.
Did you ever fap beforehand or did you just start when you were in college or something? Porn addictions are real but this sounds like bro science bullshit.
I started watching porn at 8, in a public library. my parents would drop me off there as a daycare As i've stated, i've left a lot of information out, and at the moment of writing the blog i wasn't really educated that well on the topic
I mean to make it simple, i treat my brain like a pet. Theres the animalistic part of the brain where it would love to do nothing but do things that make it feel good and then theres the neocortex part of my brain that i use to slap it around until it obeys me ^_^. silly brain It's very very nice to finally start to be logical and self -assured of myself , and be a real man instead of some whiny dog that cries whenever things don't go his way. obviously a kind of pathetically late start as Im 20 already, but i dun give a fuck lol
On July 02 2012 23:33 B.I.G. wrote: Do you have one arm that is extremely ripped now or do you switch arms often?
hahaha actually this is quite true, my left arm is not really any bulker , but definitely more toned up than my right. lol
day twenty whatever, social anxiety is SOO much less now ^_^ its been forever since ive just been out all day instead of sitting on a computer. Life is good =]