Auto = Lower fuel economy Auto transmission costs more than manual on a new car (Here by maybe 1500-2000 per car) Clutch is far cheaper to replace than Auto transmission Can slow down with gears giving you more control with manual (especially good in Ice and Snow conditions) Slowing down with gears means less wear on brake pads = more cost savings You can bump start/roll start a manual if your battery is flat Don't need to worry if transmission fluid is topped up Manual = no idiots driving around with one foot on the brake and the other on the accelerator
Also too many auto drivers mistaking the accelerator for the brake and just driving straight into houses or pedestrians , i see so many of these accidents it's not funny.
Seriously the only reason i see people give for not driving a manual is it's hard to drive up a hill.Waaah waaah waaah no wonder the west is in decline with lazy attitudes like that.Toughen up kids.
To finish hardly anyone in the USA can drive manuals anymore so learn manual and the beatnik kids who run around stealing cars won't be able to drive yours away.
On June 08 2012 22:25 iPlaY.NettleS wrote: Auto = Lower fuel economy Auto transmission costs more than manual on a new car (Here by maybe 1500-2000 per car) Clutch is far cheaper to replace than Auto transmission Can slow down with gears giving you more control with manual (especially good in Ice and Snow conditions) Slowing down with gears means less wear on brake pads = more cost savings You can bump start/roll start a manual if your battery is flat Don't need to worry if transmission fluid is topped up Manual = no idiots driving around with one foot on the brake and the other on the accelerator
Also too many auto drivers mistaking the accelerator for the brake and just driving straight into houses or pedestrians , i see so many of these accidents it's not funny.
Seriously the only reason i see people give for not driving a manual is it's hard to drive up a hill.Waaah waaah waaah no wonder the west is in decline with lazy attitudes like that.Toughen up kids.
To finish hardly anyone in the USA can drive manuals anymore so learn manual and the beatnik kids who run around stealing cars won't be able to drive yours away.
I learned how to drive on a stick. I hardly think its a "USA" thing its more of a sub-cultural thing. Some groups of people within society think its a good idea to learn how to drive a stick, some people don't know the difference, and yes some people are just lazy.
In a Zombie Apocolypse I know how to drive almost anything I stumble upon! Thanks Dad!
Edit: I also bought a 71' Chevelle from my parents so not learning how to drive a stick in my family would have just been silly.
I always thought that autotrans is a US thing,I have never driven a car without a stick in my life. Not because I didn't want to but just because everyone owns cars here with clutch transmition.
Auto does cost more than manual on new cars here as well (also ~$2000 extra). Yes, it is cheaper to replace a manual. But let's say you're teaching a new driver how to use a stick; it's guaranteed they will cause damage to the manual.
Going along with what you're saying, not a lot of people know how to drive manual anymore. Imagine checking your car into valet and noone knows how to drive manual. It happens. I've seen it.
Also, driving a manual in traffic is not fun.
Finally, MPG between auto and manual is a non-issue on most cars. It's like maybe ~10% difference, if at all.
On June 08 2012 22:42 jacosajh wrote: Auto does cost more than manual on new cars here as well (also ~$2000 extra). Yes, it is cheaper to replace a manual. But let's say you're teaching a new driver how to use a stick; it's guaranteed they will cause damage to the manual.
Going along with what you're saying, not a lot of people know how to drive manual anymore. Imagine checking your car into valet and noone knows how to drive manual. It happens. I've seen it.
Also, driving a manual in traffic is not fun.
Finally, MPG between auto and manual is a non-issue on most cars. It's like maybe ~10% difference, if at all.
The cost of teaching someone to drive stick is probably outweighed in fuel cost savings for one year of driving alone.
My Corolla, an already efficient vehicle goes from ~8L/100km to ~6.5L/100km (Family owns an Auto and Manual) at around 600 km/tank, I save 9L per tank. Fill up 3 times a month @ $1.30, I save about $140.Close to the price of a Clutch Kit. Granted, most will need to pay labor on top of that, but that is JUST FUEL. Think about all the other things the op listed as benefits.
I completely agree...I've noticed it across all of North America, except small islands that were pretty much british colonies.
In Denmark, you can't just "teach someone to drive a stick". You obviously have to have a drivers license, and almost all instructors/teachers drive cars with stick because they know that is what the new drivers most likely are going to drive.
Try driving manual in gridlocked traffic on hilly terrain. That'll give you fits. Unless you're driving a 20 year old car, all those maintenance things will rarely come into play. And bad manual driving consumes more fuel. I don't know where you live that people mistaking accelerators for brakes is a common occurrence.
Do you not have gridlock in Austrailia? Because holy crap that alone whipes out any advantage to buying manual. It's probably why few American cars are even sold with the option of a manual anymore.
You actually slow down with gears? I've never really done this given my fear of a rear end possibility with drivers who only stop to brake lights. At least for driving in America, it seems like a big risk to me.
But otherwise, I drive manual because it's more enjoyable to do than automatic (double clutch, etc...). I don't really think it's all that much superior for everyday driving otherwise.
The #1 thing I hate about driving my girlfriend's automatic is that I feel like the car actually ACCELERATES when I take my foot OFF the accelerator and try to just coast... Maybe I'm just so used to my manual... I don't know. We almost got in to a car accident the other night because I was driving her car (she had drank a few beers, I had not) and I forgot the car accelerates on its own and we hit a sharp turn too fast...
Ya I'm sorry, I only like my car doing what I tell it to do.
On June 08 2012 23:58 Iranon wrote: For the same reason people buy Macs. Because they find a marginal increase in ease of use worth a marginal extra cost.
I'm pretty sure Macs are more than just marginally more expensive than other products. Although I do like your analogy, I think macs/autos are easier to learn(or require no learning whatsoever). Once you get over that learning curve though, manuals (and to a certain degree PCs) are just better, and imo easier to use.
On June 08 2012 23:33 TheToast wrote: Do you not have gridlock in Austrailia? Because holy crap that alone whipes out any advantage to buying manual. It's probably why few American cars are even sold with the option of a manual anymore.
I'm pretty sure we have as much gridlock near Paris as anywhere in America, and very few people drive automatic cars. Not much of a problem imho. I also think it's much easier to park a manual car in difficult places than an automatic one. I heard automatic cars were getting better recently, personnally I'm not sure, 95% of cars are manual over here and I have driven one like once or twice maybe ?
On June 08 2012 23:58 Iranon wrote: For the same reason people buy Macs. Because they find a marginal increase in ease of use worth a marginal extra cost.
I'm pretty sure Macs are more than just marginally more expensive than other products. Although I do like your analogy, I think macs/autos are easier to learn(or require no learning whatsoever). Once you get over that learning curve though, manuals (and to a certain degree PCs) are just better, and imo easier to use.
Very true. I've never bought an apple product for precisely this reason, and now that I think about it, it's probably high time I learned to drive stick...
On June 08 2012 23:58 Iranon wrote: For the same reason people buy Macs. Because they find a marginal increase in ease of use worth a marginal extra cost.
I'm pretty sure Macs are more than just marginally more expensive than other products. Although I do like your analogy, I think macs/autos are easier to learn(or require no learning whatsoever). Once you get over that learning curve though, manuals (and to a certain degree PCs) are just better, and imo easier to use.
Actually learning Mac is like 9999% more difficult. It's just that Mac locks things down so much, it's not necessary for most people to actually learn how to do stuff on them. For example, how do you change a Mac's name (unique network identifyer), how do you flush the DNS, how do you do practically anything complicated on them? Most Mac users have no frigging clue, even though they'll defend to the death the fact that "macs are easier".
And yea, macs are in some cases like 50% more expensive than what they should be given the hardware. So, this is really not a good analogy.
As a Manual Car Driver in the US. it's really a matter of personal preference.
I find manual transmissions vehicles to be a bit more pure, and I feel a lot more connected to the road.
Other people tend to just want to turn a key and get somewhere, automatic transmissions are perfect for that.
the benefits of both are fairly obvious, so I won't list them here. It's really all about what you like to drive. If you like to hack around with things, run Linux, or are some kind of tinkerer/engineering type, a manual transmission is probably for you.
On June 08 2012 22:42 jacosajh wrote: Auto does cost more than manual on new cars here as well (also ~$2000 extra). Yes, it is cheaper to replace a manual. But let's say you're teaching a new driver how to use a stick; it's guaranteed they will cause damage to the manual.
Going along with what you're saying, not a lot of people know how to drive manual anymore. Imagine checking your car into valet and noone knows how to drive manual. It happens. I've seen it.
Also, driving a manual in traffic is not fun.
Finally, MPG between auto and manual is a non-issue on most cars. It's like maybe ~10% difference, if at all.
The cost of teaching someone to drive stick is probably outweighed in fuel cost savings for one year of driving alone.
My Corolla, an already efficient vehicle goes from ~8L/100km to ~6.5L/100km (Family owns an Auto and Manual) at around 600 km/tank, I save 9L per tank. Fill up 3 times a month @ $1.30, I save about $140.Close to the price of a Clutch Kit. Granted, most will need to pay labor on top of that, but that is JUST FUEL. Think about all the other things the op listed as benefits.
I completely agree...I've noticed it across all of North America, except small islands that were pretty much british colonies.
In newer cars, the difference between auto and manual in terms of MPG is nothing. On a 2012 Toyota Corolla (USA)the difference is 1 more MPG (26/34 vs 27/34). And as someone already pointed out, unless you drive really well with a manual, you can actually get less MPG than an auto.
Aslo, the price of parts is usually only a fraction of the labor. Not to mention that if I was buying a car and ever found out that it needed something like that replaced, I will automatically (ahaha, get it? :-p) look elsewhere.
I can drive manual but I really don't care about driving manual/automatic one way or the other. It seems to be a point of pride for a lot of people which I find a little bit weird. I don't have opinions about what other people prefer to drive.
as a more or less uselss piece of anecdotal counter-evidence: a honda dealer recently told me that the latest generation of automatic civics have better fuel efficiency than the manual ones
Autos are comfortable, but mostly lack any connection to the actual driving experience (unless it's something stupidly expensive like the double clutch auto that many modern supercars feature). For myself, I prefer driving stick because I feel way more involved and generally feel more safe because I do the work myself. Autos are very nice for big vans though, where you probably didn't buy them for driving enjoyment.
On June 09 2012 00:42 CTStalker wrote: as a more or less uselss piece of anecdotal counter-evidence: a honda dealer recently told me that the latest generation of automatic civics have better fuel efficiency than the manual ones
it wouldn't surprise me; automatics have advanced by leaps-and-bounds in the last decade
the idea of "manual" is reserved mostly purists these days; the list of benefits for manual is getting smaller
I also know how to drive a manual, but I prefer auto because driving manual in NYC is NOT very fun. I don't care if you like to feel in control of your car; sit in 2 hours of traffic every day and you're going to wish you can just leave your foot on the brake and be able to play with your cellphone (shhh, don't rat on me). That last thing you're going to want is feel "one" with your car.
I was under the impression that automatics got better MPG. Just saw a headline awhile back in USA today that was something along the lines of "Manual car sales increasing despite lower fuel efficiency."
people do not drive perfect, what makes you think they'll always shift at the right points for maximum fuel savings, let alone people who take forever to change gears. and you complain about people who can't deal with two pedals ... and somehow three pedals is the better solution? lol, what a ridiculous OP.
On June 09 2012 00:42 CTStalker wrote: as a more or less uselss piece of anecdotal counter-evidence: a honda dealer recently told me that the latest generation of automatic civics have better fuel efficiency than the manual ones
This is actually true. I've only owned cars with manual transmissions but the fuel efficiency argument is no longer valid.
On June 09 2012 02:01 a176 wrote: people do not drive perfect, what makes you think they'll always shift at the right points for maximum fuel savings, let alone people who take forever to change gears. and you complain about people who can't deal with two pedals ... and somehow three pedals is the better solution? lol, what a ridiculous OP.
I thought the pedals thing was pretty funny as well. I like someone else said, am able to drive both and don't have a preference either way. Pretty strange that people feel so strongly about something like this. Naturally I just assumed people for the most part adopted the 'convenient' route. If I'm driving a back road or something or country road sure, manual could be fun, but mundane traffic and everyday driving isn't something I look forward to. I just do it cause I have to get from point A to point B. Nothing better about manual/automatic in this situation for me. I don't think its a testament to laziness, are my work ethics skewed for thinking not shifting gears isn't enough to question laziness?
Once you get the technique down, its just as casual as driving an automatic with the cars I've driven. Granted they weren't fast cars or anything of that sort.
Slowing down with gears means less wear on brake pads = more cost savings.
My driving teacher told me that is possible, I then tried it and slowed down from 5th to 1th gear, she then told me that this is really bad for the gears. So I assume any money you save in brake pads you will spend on fixing your gears.
Also it is really nice inner city, if you are stuck in traffic and don't have to switch gears to roll 5 meters ahead.
How am I suppose to seduce women by symbolizing oral sex with my finger if I need both hands to drive my car at increasingly wild speeds to define my manhood while also studying the biological anatomy of my girl physicall via my index finger or if she's petite: my thumb or pinky while using 90s slang to illustrate these sexual approaches?
Because it's easier and more comfortable. I always thought it was funny that there's this group of shift-stick elites that consider themselves better than other drivers. (Unless you're a professional driver, shut it). Vehicle's purpose is transportation, not an extension of your manhood.
Slowing down with gears means less wear on brake pads = more cost savings.
My driving teacher told me that is possible, I then tried it and slowed down from 5th to 1th gear, she then told me that this is really bad for the gears. So I assume any money you save in brake pads you will spend on fixing your gears.
Also it is really nice inner city, if you are stuck in traffic and don't have to switch gears to roll 5 meters ahead.
Wait, from 5th to 1st? o.O That's excessive. You should never do that with more than 1 gear difference, or, as your driving teacher said, it will destroy the gears in the long run. Smaller steps are fine though.
I don't think calling a car which just has automatic gears deserve to be called automatic. You still have to do 90% of the work. Google has a few experimental cars that deserve the name automatic. And I'd take such a car over a manual car any time. Why would I want to drive myself, if the car can do that automatically?
Slowing down with gears means less wear on brake pads = more cost savings.
My driving teacher told me that is possible, I then tried it and slowed down from 5th to 1th gear, she then told me that this is really bad for the gears. So I assume any money you save in brake pads you will spend on fixing your gears.
You mainly use the breaking effect of a low gear when going downhill at a constant speed. For example you might use the second gear to keep the car at a constant speed of 40 or so without using brakes at all.
So the fuel efficiency argument is thrown out the window now? Is it safe to say that people choose manual over automatic based on preferences or their egos?
When I'm not at work, I spend my free time volunteering with foster kids, taking krav maga/crossfit classes, getting ready for my GMAT & MBA admissions, traveling to hang out with my gf and overseeing a 25-chapter non-profit organization. Would it be nice if I knew how to drive stick? Sure. Is learning stick something I want to pile on my plate right now? Not at all.
On June 08 2012 22:25 iPlaY.NettleS wrote: Auto = Lower fuel economy Auto transmission costs more than manual on a new car (Here by maybe 1500-2000 per car) Clutch is far cheaper to replace than Auto transmission Can slow down with gears giving you more control with manual (especially good in Ice and Snow conditions) Slowing down with gears means less wear on brake pads = more cost savings You can bump start/roll start a manual if your battery is flat Don't need to worry if transmission fluid is topped up Manual = no idiots driving around with one foot on the brake and the other on the accelerator
Also too many auto drivers mistaking the accelerator for the brake and just driving straight into houses or pedestrians , i see so many of these accidents it's not funny.
Seriously the only reason i see people give for not driving a manual is it's hard to drive up a hill.Waaah waaah waaah no wonder the west is in decline with lazy attitudes like that.Toughen up kids.
To finish hardly anyone in the USA can drive manuals anymore so learn manual and the beatnik kids who run around stealing cars won't be able to drive yours away.
An automatic transmission might be a more costly repair, but you will have it worked on a lot less than your clutch and gearbox (depending on how you drive/your car model). You can engine brake in an automatic too, by... you guessed it... downshifting. I won't comment on the battery and transmission fluid because it should be obvious a responsible car owner would follow their maintenance schedule no matter what kind of transmission they had. Fuel economy is dubious, and what about the obnoxious case of being in a traffic jam with a clutch? If you don't have the steering wheel on the right you'll have to deal with shifting with your dominant hand. If you're racing (or just really aggressive) you have to master using the brakes and accelerator simultaneously with one foot. Essentially the only reason people drive a manual to begin with is they existed first. But you can get nice acceleration and clutch drifting.
i drive with one foot on the gas and the other for my brake pedal. what is the problem? oh you mean idiots that sit with their foot pushing down on the break while they gas? that's not unique to automatic transmission drivers.
On June 09 2012 05:20 Angel_ wrote: i drive with one foot on the gas and the other for my brake pedal. what is the problem? oh you mean idiots that sit with their foot pushing down on the break while they gas? that's not unique to automatic transmission drivers.
Lol, no he's talking about people who are doing exactly what you're doing.
On June 09 2012 05:20 Angel_ wrote: i drive with one foot on the gas and the other for my brake pedal. what is the problem? oh you mean idiots that sit with their foot pushing down on the break while they gas? that's not unique to automatic transmission drivers.
Lol, no he's talking about people who are doing exactly what you're doing.
On June 09 2012 04:37 oBlade wrote: An automatic transmission might be a more costly repair, but you will have it worked on a lot less than your clutch and gearbox (depending on how you drive/your car model). You can engine brake in an automatic too, by... you guessed it... downshifting. I won't comment on the battery and transmission fluid because it should be obvious a responsible car owner would follow their maintenance schedule no matter what kind of transmission they had. Fuel economy is dubious, and what about the obnoxious case of being in a traffic jam with a clutch? If you don't have the steering wheel on the right you'll have to deal with shifting with your dominant hand. If you're racing (or just really aggressive) you have to master using the brakes and accelerator simultaneously with one foot. Essentially the only reason people drive a manual to begin with is they existed first. But you can get nice acceleration and clutch drifting.
Well i've been driving manuals 10 years and have never broken a clutch so in my experience i can't say that is true. As to the traffic jam point that is when most rearends happen because people in automatics keep it in drive , lose concentration for a split second and go to reach for their handbag on the passenger seat or whatever and let their foot off the brake and the car slams into the back of the car in front.Happens all the time here. And the guy changing from 5th to 1st in one gear change , really? says alot about peoples knowledge sadly....
On June 09 2012 04:37 oBlade wrote: An automatic transmission might be a more costly repair, but you will have it worked on a lot less than your clutch and gearbox (depending on how you drive/your car model). You can engine brake in an automatic too, by... you guessed it... downshifting. I won't comment on the battery and transmission fluid because it should be obvious a responsible car owner would follow their maintenance schedule no matter what kind of transmission they had. Fuel economy is dubious, and what about the obnoxious case of being in a traffic jam with a clutch? If you don't have the steering wheel on the right you'll have to deal with shifting with your dominant hand. If you're racing (or just really aggressive) you have to master using the brakes and accelerator simultaneously with one foot. Essentially the only reason people drive a manual to begin with is they existed first. But you can get nice acceleration and clutch drifting.
Well i've been driving manuals 10 years and have never broken a clutch so in my experience i can't say that is true. As to the traffic jam point that is when most rearends happen because people in automatics keep it in drive , lose concentration for a split second and go to reach for their handbag on the passenger seat or whatever and let their foot off the brake and the car slams into the back of the car in front.Happens all the time here. And the guy changing from 5th to 1st in one gear change , really? says alot about peoples knowledge sadly....
What I gather from this is that manual is a good way of preventing irresponsible or stupid people from getting into that situation.
Unfortunately, I think people that irresponsible or stupid will cause problems another way, manual or automatic.
On June 09 2012 05:20 Angel_ wrote: i drive with one foot on the gas and the other for my brake pedal. what is the problem? oh you mean idiots that sit with their foot pushing down on the break while they gas? that's not unique to automatic transmission drivers.
Lol, no he's talking about people who are doing exactly what you're doing.
uh. what's the problem again?
It may happen that you press both at once, I guess.
Topic: Over here, 95% of all people drive manual, so it's not even a point of discussion for me.
Its easier. Its less hustle. It gives me a free hand at all times if I need it. Its beneficial in traffic/gridlock situations. Its all about extra comfort. Manual doesnt give you extra comfort - that's enough of a reason in itself.
You can drop gears using automatic as well... Im pretty sure it always has 1 2, often 1 2 3 lol
Aside from better control/negligible fuel efficiency its nothing. You can learn to drive manual in 1 day yet ppl that drive manual think they are somehow better drivers which makes me laugh. Ive driven both and now I prefer auto hands down.
On June 09 2012 07:23 ecstatica wrote: Its easier. Its less hustle. It gives me a free hand at all times if I need it. Its beneficial in traffic/gridlock situations. Its all about extra comfort. Manual doesnt give you extra comfort - that's enough of a reason in itself.
You can drop gears using automatic as well... Im pretty sure it always has 1 2, often 1 2 3 lol
Aside from better control/negligible fuel efficiency its nothing. You can learn to drive manual in 1 day yet ppl that drive manual think they are somehow better drivers which makes me laugh. Ive driven both and now I prefer auto hands down.
You can learn it in 1 day, but lots and lots of time to get used to it. The thing is, driving automatic makes you lazy, means you are paying less attention, sometimes resulting in crashes. With manual you have to focus more. That does not make you a better driver but a more attentive one.
On June 09 2012 07:23 ecstatica wrote: Its easier. Its less hustle. It gives me a free hand at all times if I need it. Its beneficial in traffic/gridlock situations. Its all about extra comfort. Manual doesnt give you extra comfort - that's enough of a reason in itself.
You can drop gears using automatic as well... Im pretty sure it always has 1 2, often 1 2 3 lol
Aside from better control/negligible fuel efficiency its nothing. You can learn to drive manual in 1 day yet ppl that drive manual think they are somehow better drivers which makes me laugh. Ive driven both and now I prefer auto hands down.
You can learn it in 1 day, but lots and lots of time to get used to it. The thing is, driving automatic makes you lazy, means you are paying less attention, sometimes resulting in crashes. With manual you have to focus more. That does not make you a better driver but a more attentive one.
If the same dumb people are getting into accidents with an automatic what makes you think they will do better by making them use both hands and feet?
On June 09 2012 07:23 ecstatica wrote: Its easier. Its less hustle. It gives me a free hand at all times if I need it. Its beneficial in traffic/gridlock situations. Its all about extra comfort. Manual doesnt give you extra comfort - that's enough of a reason in itself.
You can drop gears using automatic as well... Im pretty sure it always has 1 2, often 1 2 3 lol
Aside from better control/negligible fuel efficiency its nothing. You can learn to drive manual in 1 day yet ppl that drive manual think they are somehow better drivers which makes me laugh. Ive driven both and now I prefer auto hands down.
You can learn it in 1 day, but lots and lots of time to get used to it. The thing is, driving automatic makes you lazy, means you are paying less attention, sometimes resulting in crashes. With manual you have to focus more. That does not make you a better driver but a more attentive one.
no, driving automatic doesn't "make you lazy" - it also doesn't mean you are paying less attention - I have all the more attention to pay since I don't have to notice what RPM I'm at, or changing gears at all, ever
you have to focus more on your car - that doesn't mean you are focusing more on other cars; the contrary, actually
I think automatic cars should be banned. Well, except maybe for people who lost and arm or leg or something. Otherwise I think all cars should be stick. If u cant drive stick then take the bus. Imagine how much safer the road would be. People would actually have to pay attention to what the hell their car is doing on the road. Less texting and eating while driving as well.
to the guy above. Driving an automatic car surely means you are paying less attention. It's common sense. When something is so highly automated it leaves the driver with almost nothing to do. What do people do when they are bored? Do they constantly scan intersections and look for people popping out of driveways? NO. They pick up their phone and start texting. Or use their free hand to feed their face.
These are things u can't easily do while driving stick. because there is not a butt load of dead time. u have to pysically make the car do what u want it to do. thus putting u in connection with the car and making u aware of what is around u.
On June 09 2012 13:33 FullNatural wrote: I think automatic cars should be banned. Well, except maybe for people who lost and arm or leg or something. Otherwise I think all cars should be stick. If u cant drive stick then take the bus. Imagine how much safer the road would be. People would actually have to pay attention to what the hell their car is doing on the road. Less texting and eating while driving as well.
to the guy above. Driving an automatic car surely means you are paying less attention. It's common sense. When something is so highly automated it leaves the driver with almost nothing to do. What do people do when they are bored? Do they constantly scan intersections and look for people popping out of driveways? NO. They pick up their phone and start texting. Or use their free hand to feed their face.
These are things u can't easily do while driving stick. because there is not a butt load of dead time. u have to pysically make the car do what u want it to do. thus putting u in connection with the car and making u aware of what is around u.
So you want the people who are using their phone and/or eating to also worry about working their manual transmission? That would clearly cause even more accidents. What makes you think just because the car is manual that people would cease this behavior?
Edit: Also, why have power steering? When you can turn the wheel with one hand, you can use your phone right? Remove power steering from all modern cars.
On June 09 2012 13:33 FullNatural wrote: I think automatic cars should be banned. Well, except maybe for people who lost and arm or leg or something. Otherwise I think all cars should be stick. If u cant drive stick then take the bus. Imagine how much safer the road would be. People would actually have to pay attention to what the hell their car is doing on the road. Less texting and eating while driving as well.
to the guy above. Driving an automatic car surely means you are paying less attention. It's common sense. When something is so highly automated it leaves the driver with almost nothing to do. What do people do when they are bored? Do they constantly scan intersections and look for people popping out of driveways? NO. They pick up their phone and start texting. Or use their free hand to feed their face.
These are things u can't easily do while driving stick. because there is not a butt load of dead time. u have to pysically make the car do what u want it to do. thus putting u in connection with the car and making u aware of what is around u.
ban GPSes, better that drivers read maps while running stop signs
On June 09 2012 13:33 FullNatural wrote: I think automatic cars should be banned. Well, except maybe for people who lost and arm or leg or something. Otherwise I think all cars should be stick. If u cant drive stick then take the bus. Imagine how much safer the road would be. People would actually have to pay attention to what the hell their car is doing on the road. Less texting and eating while driving as well.
to the guy above. Driving an automatic car surely means you are paying less attention. It's common sense. When something is so highly automated it leaves the driver with almost nothing to do. What do people do when they are bored? Do they constantly scan intersections and look for people popping out of driveways? NO. They pick up their phone and start texting. Or use their free hand to feed their face.
These are things u can't easily do while driving stick. because there is not a butt load of dead time. u have to pysically make the car do what u want it to do. thus putting u in connection with the car and making u aware of what is around u.
You have to physically make the car do what you want it to do. Okay. That's exactly what an accelerator and brake pedal do. I don't think a stickshift is going to make people pay much more attention for instance on the freeway when you're just cruising in fifth gear. You people are confusing that only skilled US drivers will tend to drive manuals with the idea that driving a manual somehow makes you a good driver. Being a good driver makes you a good driver. I'd definitely prefer the idiot drivers in automatics that they can barely control than manuals that they can barelier control.
This is like saying people are better at juggling bowling pins while they practice circular breathing because they aren't just juggling bowling pins and it forces them to pay more attention. For novices, splitting your attention makes you worse, which is all that would happen if you took auto transmissions away from them.
On June 09 2012 13:33 FullNatural wrote: I think automatic cars should be banned. Well, except maybe for people who lost and arm or leg or something. Otherwise I think all cars should be stick. If u cant drive stick then take the bus. Imagine how much safer the road would be. People would actually have to pay attention to what the hell their car is doing on the road. Less texting and eating while driving as well.
to the guy above. Driving an automatic car surely means you are paying less attention. It's common sense. When something is so highly automated it leaves the driver with almost nothing to do. What do people do when they are bored? Do they constantly scan intersections and look for people popping out of driveways? NO. They pick up their phone and start texting. Or use their free hand to feed their face.
These are things u can't easily do while driving stick. because there is not a butt load of dead time. u have to pysically make the car do what u want it to do. thus putting u in connection with the car and making u aware of what is around u.
bring back drum breaks - you have to be in more of a connection with your car to stop it in time or you will plow into people, nobody will be using their phone
also get rid of power steering - like said above, you will have to use both hands and it puts you more in a connection with your car
shit, while you're at it - i never felt more in-tune with the road and my surroundings than when i was riding my bicycle... just imagine how many car accidents would happen if everyone rode bikes instead!
On June 09 2012 13:33 FullNatural wrote: I think automatic cars should be banned. Well, except maybe for people who lost and arm or leg or something. Otherwise I think all cars should be stick. If u cant drive stick then take the bus. Imagine how much safer the road would be. People would actually have to pay attention to what the hell their car is doing on the road. Less texting and eating while driving as well.
to the guy above. Driving an automatic car surely means you are paying less attention. It's common sense. When something is so highly automated it leaves the driver with almost nothing to do. What do people do when they are bored? Do they constantly scan intersections and look for people popping out of driveways? NO. They pick up their phone and start texting. Or use their free hand to feed their face.
These are things u can't easily do while driving stick. because there is not a butt load of dead time. u have to pysically make the car do what u want it to do. thus putting u in connection with the car and making u aware of what is around u.
Yeah.... Not going to lie, this is a pretty stupid argument.
I have been driving stick for 5 years, I vastly prefer it to automatic, but actually make legitimate arguments instead of just blathering on completely random stuff.
On June 09 2012 13:33 FullNatural wrote: I think automatic cars should be banned. Well, except maybe for people who lost and arm or leg or something. Otherwise I think all cars should be stick. If u cant drive stick then take the bus. Imagine how much safer the road would be. People would actually have to pay attention to what the hell their car is doing on the road. Less texting and eating while driving as well.
to the guy above. Driving an automatic car surely means you are paying less attention. It's common sense. When something is so highly automated it leaves the driver with almost nothing to do. What do people do when they are bored? Do they constantly scan intersections and look for people popping out of driveways? NO. They pick up their phone and start texting. Or use their free hand to feed their face.
These are things u can't easily do while driving stick. because there is not a butt load of dead time. u have to pysically make the car do what u want it to do. thus putting u in connection with the car and making u aware of what is around u.
you really think stick drivers are paying that much more attention after how automatic driving a stick becomes after a few years? that that iota of attention actually contributes to anything and factors remotely towards not being bored while driving; to floating into lala land like everyone that uses automatic? are you actually trying to state that stick drivers don't also eat, talk, use their phones, text, change their music, daydream, and every other distraction?
Clearly people are having a hard time with reading comprehension. Please read where I wrote the word "less"
To the silly people that suggested I somehow implied removing safety features from cars (lol what?), I'm not sure how you made that leap....an automatic tranny is not a safety feature. I never suggest removing anything and everything to make drivers more aware...
Again it's pretty common sense that the more automated something is, the less the operator pays attention.
On June 09 2012 13:33 FullNatural wrote: I think automatic cars should be banned. Well, except maybe for people who lost and arm or leg or something. Otherwise I think all cars should be stick. If u cant drive stick then take the bus. Imagine how much safer the road would be. People would actually have to pay attention to what the hell their car is doing on the road. Less texting and eating while driving as well.
to the guy above. Driving an automatic car surely means you are paying less attention. It's common sense. When something is so highly automated it leaves the driver with almost nothing to do. What do people do when they are bored? Do they constantly scan intersections and look for people popping out of driveways? NO. They pick up their phone and start texting. Or use their free hand to feed their face.
These are things u can't easily do while driving stick. because there is not a butt load of dead time. u have to pysically make the car do what u want it to do. thus putting u in connection with the car and making u aware of what is around u.
So you want the people who are using their phone and/or eating to also worry about working their manual transmission? That would clearly cause even more accidents. What makes you think just because the car is manual that people would cease this behavior?
Edit: Also, why have power steering? When you can turn the wheel with one hand, you can use your phone right? Remove power steering from all modern cars.
my point was that these people talking on phones and eating while driving would not be able to do AS MUCH of this kind of dangerous stuff while driving a stick shift car.
I think that thhis would lessen the behaviour because most people would not have the dexterity to carry out such behavior while driving stick. alot of people would have to chose either drive and shift....or fuck around. U'd think driving would be the first choice.
when u see 80 year old people, soccer moms, and 16 year old girls that look like they can't walk straight texting etc while driving....maybe....just maybe things are getting a little too automated.
@Angel_ im saying they do LESS of it because it is physically impossible to do AS MUCH of it.
Anyways, I don't see any other advantage to an auto car than being "easy" Like being easy is what we want when we let 16 year olds and the elderly pilot 4,000 pound death tanks.
On June 09 2012 15:20 FullNatural wrote: Clearly people are having a hard time with reading comprehension. Please read where I wrote the word "less"
To the silly people that suggested I somehow implied removing safety features from cars (lol what?), I'm not sure how you made that leap....an automatic tranny is not a safety feature. I never suggest removing anything and everything to make drivers more aware...
Again it's pretty common sense that the more automated something is, the less the operator pays attention.
Yeah, I paid a lot more attention to this desktop when it was an abacus. Now basically all I do with it is run 100 tabs in Firefox alone, let alone all the other programs I have open.
Have you ever driven in bumper to bumper traffic in peak hour?
As someone who prefers driving a manual, learnt and got my license in a manual, I can tell you that I have. And it is not fun.. Especially after a hard days work, just wanting to get home and enjoy the rest of the night and relax. Sitting in traffic riding the clutch for up to an hour or more, constantly moving at a walking pace in hot weather is close to a living hell.
I now have an automatic car and when I bought it i dismissed it as an improvement because simply, I never cared. But after feeling the difference driving under the circumstances stated above I can tell you it is a hell of a lot better as far as driving experience goes.
People "mistaking the accelerator for the brake" or 2 foot driving are just people not driving the way they are suppose to. Same thing happens in manuals, people stalling or driving in the wrong gear, bunnyhopping etc. You can't use a minority of poor drivers as a stereotype for a whole entity of drivers.
Most cars these days have handy little lights that alert the driver when fluid or anything of that nature needs replacing, I would hardly call it a worry.
I still miss driving a manual, and prefer manual cars. But there is definitely more upside to automatics than people on here are giving credit for.
I vastly prefer manual cars. They are a lot more fun to drive since you can keep the revs where you want them. I would definitely have an automatic if I lived in a big city and had to commute during rush hour. Driving a manual in heavy traffic sucks.
On June 09 2012 05:20 Angel_ wrote: i drive with one foot on the gas and the other for my brake pedal. what is the problem? oh you mean idiots that sit with their foot pushing down on the break while they gas? that's not unique to automatic transmission drivers.
Lol, no he's talking about people who are doing exactly what you're doing.
uh. what's the problem again?
Oh I used to do that too...
When I was driving around in a parking lot a few days after I received my permit. Then I met my instructor who chewed me out because you're actually supposed to use the same foot for both pedals...
Automatics get me from A to B with a minimal amount of effort, reasonable safety, and at an ok cost: GOOD ENOUGH. Cars are boring as hell for me, so I'd rather spend as little time thinking about them as possible. Tbh it surprises me that the same people would be interested in both cars & Starcraft, but this is a diverse world.
If you like manuals, whatever - we all have our hobbies, don't makes yours out to be something bigger than it is.
As a delivery driver that drives 5 hours a night, I love my automatic. I can drive a stick, but 5 hours a night of stop and go traffic is just plain annoying. Most of my friends drive a manual here in Florida, but they aren't doing deliveries. I'd prefer a manual over auto except in my position.
On June 09 2012 15:20 FullNatural wrote: Clearly people are having a hard time with reading comprehension. Please read where I wrote the word "less"
To the silly people that suggested I somehow implied removing safety features from cars (lol what?), I'm not sure how you made that leap....an automatic tranny is not a safety feature. I never suggest removing anything and everything to make drivers more aware...
Again it's pretty common sense that the more automated something is, the less the operator pays attention.
logically, the more you give the driver to do, the less they can pay attention to their surroundings?
On June 09 2012 15:20 FullNatural wrote: Clearly people are having a hard time with reading comprehension. Please read where I wrote the word "less"
To the silly people that suggested I somehow implied removing safety features from cars (lol what?), I'm not sure how you made that leap....an automatic tranny is not a safety feature. I never suggest removing anything and everything to make drivers more aware...
Again it's pretty common sense that the more automated something is, the less the operator pays attention.
logically, the more you give the driver to do, the less they can pay attention to their surroundings?
No, because you react on what happens in your surroundings. The more you have to react on, the more attention you have to pay to your surrounding in order to react accordingly in every situation.
my parents drove manual for a decade and switched over to auto when it came out. They thought the invention of automatic transmission was wonderful. im sure most adults, my parents included, nowadays buy auto because they are lazy.
The latest "automatics" are actually manual transmissions shifted by the computer: Dual Clutch Transmissions, or DCT. Not all of them, but a good chunk of the 2012's/2013's. They started out in performance cars, but are now commonplace in new cars.
They are notably better in gas mileage. "Auto = Lower fuel economy" ? Maybe back in 1987. Go look up fuel economy specs of a DCT vs a Manual for the same car. Typically they have an option to manually shift yourself via paddle shifters.
On June 08 2012 22:25 iPlaY.NettleS wrote: Auto = Lower fuel economy Auto transmission costs more than manual on a new car (Here by maybe 1500-2000 per car) Clutch is far cheaper to replace than Auto transmission Can slow down with gears giving you more control with manual (especially good in Ice and Snow conditions) Slowing down with gears means less wear on brake pads = more cost savings You can bump start/roll start a manual if your battery is flat Don't need to worry if transmission fluid is topped up Manual = no idiots driving around with one foot on the brake and the other on the accelerator
Also too many auto drivers mistaking the accelerator for the brake and just driving straight into houses or pedestrians , i see so many of these accidents it's not funny.
Seriously the only reason i see people give for not driving a manual is it's hard to drive up a hill.Waaah waaah waaah no wonder the west is in decline with lazy attitudes like that.Toughen up kids.
To finish hardly anyone in the USA can drive manuals anymore so learn manual and the beatnik kids who run around stealing cars won't be able to drive yours away.
People get those confused? Uhh, call us Americans whatever you want, but I have never met a single person here with that problem. O_o
On June 08 2012 22:25 iPlaY.NettleS wrote: Auto = Lower fuel economy Auto transmission costs more than manual on a new car (Here by maybe 1500-2000 per car) Clutch is far cheaper to replace than Auto transmission Can slow down with gears giving you more control with manual (especially good in Ice and Snow conditions) Slowing down with gears means less wear on brake pads = more cost savings You can bump start/roll start a manual if your battery is flat Don't need to worry if transmission fluid is topped up Manual = no idiots driving around with one foot on the brake and the other on the accelerator
Also too many auto drivers mistaking the accelerator for the brake and just driving straight into houses or pedestrians , i see so many of these accidents it's not funny.
Seriously the only reason i see people give for not driving a manual is it's hard to drive up a hill.Waaah waaah waaah no wonder the west is in decline with lazy attitudes like that.Toughen up kids.
To finish hardly anyone in the USA can drive manuals anymore so learn manual and the beatnik kids who run around stealing cars won't be able to drive yours away.
People get those confused? Uhh, call us Americans whatever you want, but I have never met a single person here with that problem. O_o
My twin sister did that once, learning to drive when we were 16 and had just gotten learner's permits. Other than that, I don't think I know anyone it's ever happened to unless they have some nervous system disorder (in which case they probably wouldn't be able to drive manual, and maybe even auto).
Personally, I just hate driving. I hate being behind the wheel of a car, so anything that I can do to make that easier, and get it over with faster gets an A+ in my book. I'm always nervous, always looking ahead for intersections, stop signs, trying to see around corners before I get to them, checking my mirrors and the cars around me. If I had to worry about shifting as well, that's just a bunch of my attention that's not being devoted to keeping safe on the road.
If I cared that much about good mileage (a ~10% increase?) I would get a ~100% increase by driving a motorcycle or scooter. This is a ridiculous argument. As far as people stealing my car... I don't remember the last time I heard a friend of mine say their car was stolen. Broken into, and their (GPS, Phone, wallet, laptop, etc. etc.) sure, but the entire car? Bitch please.
I don't think there are any good reasons to drive a manual car, besides "for fun" or to show off to people that can't do it. Maybe they should just stop making the damn things, since they're inferior in every way.
<3 manuals; my great great grandfather beleived that everyone should learn to drive first on the tractor (john deer for the record) before learning on the road, and I would recommend it to anyone learning to drive a manual, tractors make it very easy to distinguish the relationship between gear/power/speed.
I just bought a new car w/a manual transmission (6 speed no less!) after driving an automatic for a year- it felt like a missing piece of my brain had been reconnected. There isn't anything inherently wrong with an automatic, but I always felt hindered by not being 100% in command of the transmission, mostly when the roads are slick.
Eventually the automatic will be superior in all situations, but at the moment they can't take into account as many factors as a person can-- ex, future road states- the incline is going to change, there's a puddle in a turn, a kitten runs into the road (or other evasive maneuvers, "some dumbass is about to rear end me at this stoplight, I should take it out of gear" or those moments when you are the dumbass and you need that bitch to turn sideways ASAP so you don't end up having to exchange insurance information in the rain)
And honestly, when you drive a manual, even if you are rocking some mid 80's faded gold Honda accord, chicks dig it. "hey baby, let's hold hands while I shift" /swoon "want to learn how to drive my stick?" /swoon (I'm sorry clutch), "shift for me, ready? Fourth" /swoon "watch me powerslide this turn" /swoon
"hey baby, I learned to drive on this tractor" is surprisingly less swoonworthy...
I like automatic because it's one less thing I have to think of while driving and the extra cost of Auto vs. cost savings of Manual doesn't matter to me at all. I cbf'd about what people, if any, think about which stick I use given where my life is and what I do in life
Another odd reason to own a manual shift is security. My sister in law drove a manual shift Suzuki as a delivery driver. One time she was attacked and her attacker tried to steal her car, but he didn't know how to drive stick. He left the car and she was able to get back in and drive away to the hospital. Real story.
It's also much harder for someone to text and drive when driving stick.
For me, driving stick connects me with the car - I can control it exactly as I like. If I need to drive in an economical fashion, I can. Lord knows how many miles I've squeaked out of a nearly empty tank by just driving a certain way. Automatics suck the joy out of driving.
A properly maintained manual shift car is fairly easy to learn on - especially if it's newer. For most people, you learn how to operate the car first in an empty parking lot or park. Once you master the clutch, driving on streets is no less difficult than an automatic.
I found it amusing that when I visited Spain, I was able to rent a stick-shift minivan for the family. It made what was essentially a Dodge Caravan actually kinda fun to drive (it was a SEAT Alhambra - a brand you don't see in the U.S.)
EPT
