On March 20 2012 01:18 Diglett wrote: would the ppl that know korea take at look at this video?
how much of it is true? tbh this kind of attitude is very bad for mental and emotional health -_-. how and why did korean culture develop in such a fashion?
Yea, the white girl (Kelly?) is also pretty good at Korean, seems like she managed to capture a good bit of what goes on in school in Korea. I'm just gonna focus on the bit about academics. There are some pros along with the cons of such an intense academic setting: Korean students are incredibly disciplined and driven and generally carry a higher expectation in terms of achievement in life. The major con, however, is they almost always get burned out after entering college, and that's why you see everybody getting shitfaced 24/7 and getting academic suspensions left and right. When I came to America, the general lack of pressure and academic rigor shocked me: although it ensures kids don't get burned out from an early age, the base level of education for the majority of kids in the US lacks severely. For example, most Koreans who studied through high school have a comprehensive level of knowledge in a wide array of subjects, such as Korean and international history (to the level of being able to recite all the major newpaper headlines that were printed verbatim given any year in the last century), national and global geography (For example I remember having to memorize all the countries and capitals in Africa and reproduce them given a blank picture of the continent in 7th grade), English, another foreign language, ethics, math, all subjects of science, and even art/art history and music theory. The level of math high school students learn in America is elementary school level math for the smarter kids in Korea, so by "comprehensive level of knowledge" I mean enough to carry a full conversation in that subject for more than 5 minutes. They really don't mess around; studying in the US is child's play, and I mean that in the most non-disrespectful way possible.
I hate to look like an asshole, but I feel like this is whats wrong with this thread. You are being way to sensationalist and generalize everything to the extent where people get the wrong idea. If anyone watches this video they will see that most teenagers in SK look just normal, some go for plastic surgery, some dont, but as a result you wont see a strange-looking crowd full of refugee actors - it still looks normal for the most part. I think OP is so entrenched in all of this he's bypassing the fact that not everyone, possible not even a majority of the population (especially males) is crazy about plastic surgeries, excessive skincare products and hidden heels in their footwear. Maybe it is often true for Seoul, but Seoul is not Korea. I am very skeptical about all of this simply given some of my own experience (I could be wrong but I feel pretty strong about my points).
So basically same goes for the quoted post. I say its bs. I've studied all of that too, pre-university education is indeed way more intense in most civilized countries outside of US, that doesn't mean that random koreans will be able to name capitals of the world or be proficient with every other subject they took up at school. Thats simply not how it works, most of the filler you get at school is gone once you are done with it. Really good students with developed long-term memory will have some leftovers, but there are kids like that everywhere. Best example is English - koreans often study it FOR 11 YEARS and in absolute majority of cases are complete failures at it. I've studied English starting 5th grade in a non-english speaking country with 0 chance to use or experience it outside my class (basically early internet days) and I can vouch that my every classmate came out no better or worse than average korean (given experience once again I'd say most koreans are way worse off in this regard upon graduating, but this is purely anecdotal)
Inability to speak a language you've been studying for 11 years even on a very basic level is something I'm not going to leave unnoticed. Because everything else is the same way, probably aside from math (something that will come and stay for good given the amount of practice they receive). Inability to have your own sense of style and not having to act like everyone else represents a certain level of thinking ability and individuality too, which is what school helps us develop under normal circumstances. Also, don't be clumping all Western countries together, besides high scores on math olympiads koreans are not really dominating sciences. Its just a wishful thinking.
You have a valid point, and plenty of stuff in the OP dug into the extremities of each emerging trend, but it's all true. Also, most of the OP doesn't apply to pre-college teens, who have limited freedom in terms of polishing their looks. OP was targeted at young adults in their early twenties, and they flock to Seoul, so in that sense, Seoul is Korea.
how much of it is true? tbh this kind of attitude is very bad for mental and emotional health -_-. how and why did korean culture develop in such a fashion?
Yea, the white girl (Kelly?) is also pretty good at Korean, seems like she managed to capture a good bit of what goes on in school in Korea. I'm just gonna focus on the bit about academics. There are some pros along with the cons of such an intense academic setting: Korean students are incredibly disciplined and driven and generally carry a higher expectation in terms of achievement in life. The major con, however, is they almost always get burned out after entering college, and that's why you see everybody getting shitfaced 24/7 and getting academic suspensions left and right. When I came to America, the general lack of pressure and academic rigor shocked me: although it ensures kids don't get burned out from an early age, the base level of education for the majority of kids in the US lacks severely. For example, most Koreans who studied through high school have a comprehensive level of knowledge in a wide array of subjects, such as Korean and international history (to the level of being able to recite all the major newpaper headlines that were printed verbatim given any year in the last century), national and global geography (For example I remember having to memorize all the countries and capitals in Africa and reproduce them given a blank picture of the continent in 7th grade), English, another foreign language, ethics, math, all subjects of science, and even art/art history and music theory. The level of math high school students learn in America is elementary school level math for the smarter kids in Korea, so by "comprehensive level of knowledge" I mean enough to carry a full conversation in that subject for more than 5 minutes. They really don't mess around; studying in the US is child's play, and I mean that in the most non-disrespectful way possible.
I hate to look like an asshole, but I feel like this is whats wrong with this thread. You are being way to sensationalist and generalize everything to the extent where people get the wrong idea. If anyone watches this video they will see that most teenagers in SK look just normal, some go for plastic surgery, some dont, but as a result you wont see a strange-looking crowd full of refugee actors - it still looks normal for the most part. I think OP is so entrenched in all of this he's bypassing the fact that not everyone, possible not even a majority of the population (especially males) is crazy about plastic surgeries, excessive skincare products and hidden heels in their footwear. Maybe it is often true for Seoul, but Seoul is not Korea. I am very skeptical about all of this simply given some of my own experience (I could be wrong but I feel pretty strong about my points).
So basically same goes for the quoted post. I say its bs. I've studied all of that too, pre-university education is indeed way more intense in most civilized countries outside of US, that doesn't mean that random koreans will be able to name capitals of the world or be proficient with every other subject they took up at school. Thats simply not how it works, most of the filler you get at school is gone once you are done with it. Really good students with developed long-term memory will have some leftovers, but there are kids like that everywhere. Best example is English - koreans often study it FOR 11 YEARS and in absolute majority of cases are complete failures at it. I've studied English starting 5th grade in a non-english speaking country with 0 chance to use or experience it outside my class (basically early internet days) and I can vouch that my every classmate came out no better or worse than average korean (given experience once again I'd say most koreans are way worse off in this regard upon graduating, but this is purely anecdotal)
Inability to speak a language you've been studying for 11 years even on a very basic level is something I'm not going to leave unnoticed. Because everything else is the same way, probably aside from math (something that will come and stay for good given the amount of practice they receive). Inability to have your own sense of style and not having to act like everyone else represents a certain level of thinking ability and individuality too, which is what school helps us develop under normal circumstances. Also, don't be clumping all Western countries together, besides high scores on math olympiads koreans are not really dominating sciences. Its just a wishful thinking.
You have a valid point, and plenty of stuff in the OP dug into the extremities of each emerging trend, but it's all true. Also, most of the OP doesn't apply to pre-college teens, who have limited freedom in terms of polishing their looks. OP was targeted at young adults in their early twenties, and they flock to Seoul, so in that sense, Seoul is Korea.
Is there a reason Korean progamers seem way worse than any other foreigner when it comes to speaking english? I mean even the french guys (Stephano, Carn, ToD) speak english in stream and interviews all the time and god knows French are bad with english! Only very few Koreans seem to try and speak english?
Awesome read 5/5. Honestly this is why I'm sort of scared to go to Korea. I don't know how well I would take any kind of criticism involving my looks. I have a friend who is studying here from Korea and he said that guys in Korea wouldn't think I was fat but apparently the women would tell me to lose more weight which is nearly impossible due to my curves -_-
how much of it is true? tbh this kind of attitude is very bad for mental and emotional health -_-. how and why did korean culture develop in such a fashion?
Yea, the white girl (Kelly?) is also pretty good at Korean, seems like she managed to capture a good bit of what goes on in school in Korea. I'm just gonna focus on the bit about academics. There are some pros along with the cons of such an intense academic setting: Korean students are incredibly disciplined and driven and generally carry a higher expectation in terms of achievement in life. The major con, however, is they almost always get burned out after entering college, and that's why you see everybody getting shitfaced 24/7 and getting academic suspensions left and right. When I came to America, the general lack of pressure and academic rigor shocked me: although it ensures kids don't get burned out from an early age, the base level of education for the majority of kids in the US lacks severely. For example, most Koreans who studied through high school have a comprehensive level of knowledge in a wide array of subjects, such as Korean and international history (to the level of being able to recite all the major newpaper headlines that were printed verbatim given any year in the last century), national and global geography (For example I remember having to memorize all the countries and capitals in Africa and reproduce them given a blank picture of the continent in 7th grade), English, another foreign language, ethics, math, all subjects of science, and even art/art history and music theory. The level of math high school students learn in America is elementary school level math for the smarter kids in Korea, so by "comprehensive level of knowledge" I mean enough to carry a full conversation in that subject for more than 5 minutes. They really don't mess around; studying in the US is child's play, and I mean that in the most non-disrespectful way possible.
I hate to look like an asshole, but I feel like this is whats wrong with this thread. You are being way to sensationalist and generalize everything to the extent where people get the wrong idea. If anyone watches this video they will see that most teenagers in SK look just normal, some go for plastic surgery, some dont, but as a result you wont see a strange-looking crowd full of refugee actors - it still looks normal for the most part. I think OP is so entrenched in all of this he's bypassing the fact that not everyone, possible not even a majority of the population (especially males) is crazy about plastic surgeries, excessive skincare products and hidden heels in their footwear. Maybe it is often true for Seoul, but Seoul is not Korea. I am very skeptical about all of this simply given some of my own experience (I could be wrong but I feel pretty strong about my points).
So basically same goes for the quoted post. I say its bs. I've studied all of that too, pre-university education is indeed way more intense in most civilized countries outside of US, that doesn't mean that random koreans will be able to name capitals of the world or be proficient with every other subject they took up at school. Thats simply not how it works, most of the filler you get at school is gone once you are done with it. Really good students with developed long-term memory will have some leftovers, but there are kids like that everywhere. Best example is English - koreans often study it FOR 11 YEARS and in absolute majority of cases are complete failures at it. I've studied English starting 5th grade in a non-english speaking country with 0 chance to use or experience it outside my class (basically early internet days) and I can vouch that my every classmate came out no better or worse than average korean (given experience once again I'd say most koreans are way worse off in this regard upon graduating, but this is purely anecdotal)
Inability to speak a language you've been studying for 11 years even on a very basic level is something I'm not going to leave unnoticed. Because everything else is the same way, probably aside from math (something that will come and stay for good given the amount of practice they receive). Inability to have your own sense of style and not having to act like everyone else represents a certain level of thinking ability and individuality too, which is what school helps us develop under normal circumstances. Also, don't be clumping all Western countries together, besides high scores on math olympiads koreans are not really dominating sciences. Its just a wishful thinking.
You have a valid point, and plenty of stuff in the OP dug into the extremities of each emerging trend, but it's all true. Also, most of the OP doesn't apply to pre-college teens, who have limited freedom in terms of polishing their looks. OP was targeted at young adults in their early twenties, and they flock to Seoul, so in that sense, Seoul is Korea.
Is there a reason Korean progamers seem way worse than any other foreigner when it comes to speaking english? I mean even the french guys (Stephano, Carn, ToD) speak english in stream and interviews all the time and god knows French are bad with english! Only very few Koreans seem to try and speak english?
Well if you read the post from the guy that said Koreans about not being able to speak English... it explains it. It's pretty much like mandatory for like every parent to send their kid to hagwon. Kids go to school from like 8 to 12 and then go to hagwon everyday after school... they're forced to go pretty much and yeah, it's true they get burned out really quick.
I remember one time when my brother and I went to Korea a long time ago with my family... and we went to my cousin's English hagwon... damn, they be teaching wrong pronunciations. ah part teh ment tuh (apartment), eye suh cuh ream (ice cream). Then they asked my brother to pronounce it and they were like woah O_O. "ooo that's how you say it" (but in Korean)
Like rotinegg said... this is kinda the extreme part of the trend... a lotta people don't stick to the trend 100%... but generally people like to look good.. so people just keep themselves presentable...
how much of it is true? tbh this kind of attitude is very bad for mental and emotional health -_-. how and why did korean culture develop in such a fashion?
Yea, the white girl (Kelly?) is also pretty good at Korean, seems like she managed to capture a good bit of what goes on in school in Korea. I'm just gonna focus on the bit about academics. There are some pros along with the cons of such an intense academic setting: Korean students are incredibly disciplined and driven and generally carry a higher expectation in terms of achievement in life. The major con, however, is they almost always get burned out after entering college, and that's why you see everybody getting shitfaced 24/7 and getting academic suspensions left and right. When I came to America, the general lack of pressure and academic rigor shocked me: although it ensures kids don't get burned out from an early age, the base level of education for the majority of kids in the US lacks severely. For example, most Koreans who studied through high school have a comprehensive level of knowledge in a wide array of subjects, such as Korean and international history (to the level of being able to recite all the major newpaper headlines that were printed verbatim given any year in the last century), national and global geography (For example I remember having to memorize all the countries and capitals in Africa and reproduce them given a blank picture of the continent in 7th grade), English, another foreign language, ethics, math, all subjects of science, and even art/art history and music theory. The level of math high school students learn in America is elementary school level math for the smarter kids in Korea, so by "comprehensive level of knowledge" I mean enough to carry a full conversation in that subject for more than 5 minutes. They really don't mess around; studying in the US is child's play, and I mean that in the most non-disrespectful way possible.
I hate to look like an asshole, but I feel like this is whats wrong with this thread. You are being way to sensationalist and generalize everything to the extent where people get the wrong idea. If anyone watches this video they will see that most teenagers in SK look just normal, some go for plastic surgery, some dont, but as a result you wont see a strange-looking crowd full of refugee actors - it still looks normal for the most part. I think OP is so entrenched in all of this he's bypassing the fact that not everyone, possible not even a majority of the population (especially males) is crazy about plastic surgeries, excessive skincare products and hidden heels in their footwear. Maybe it is often true for Seoul, but Seoul is not Korea. I am very skeptical about all of this simply given some of my own experience (I could be wrong but I feel pretty strong about my points).
So basically same goes for the quoted post. I say its bs. I've studied all of that too, pre-university education is indeed way more intense in most civilized countries outside of US, that doesn't mean that random koreans will be able to name capitals of the world or be proficient with every other subject they took up at school. Thats simply not how it works, most of the filler you get at school is gone once you are done with it. Really good students with developed long-term memory will have some leftovers, but there are kids like that everywhere. Best example is English - koreans often study it FOR 11 YEARS and in absolute majority of cases are complete failures at it. I've studied English starting 5th grade in a non-english speaking country with 0 chance to use or experience it outside my class (basically early internet days) and I can vouch that my every classmate came out no better or worse than average korean (given experience once again I'd say most koreans are way worse off in this regard upon graduating, but this is purely anecdotal)
Inability to speak a language you've been studying for 11 years even on a very basic level is something I'm not going to leave unnoticed. Because everything else is the same way, probably aside from math (something that will come and stay for good given the amount of practice they receive). Inability to have your own sense of style and not having to act like everyone else represents a certain level of thinking ability and individuality too, which is what school helps us develop under normal circumstances. Also, don't be clumping all Western countries together, besides high scores on math olympiads koreans are not really dominating sciences. Its just a wishful thinking.
You have a valid point, and plenty of stuff in the OP dug into the extremities of each emerging trend, but it's all true. Also, most of the OP doesn't apply to pre-college teens, who have limited freedom in terms of polishing their looks. OP was targeted at young adults in their early twenties, and they flock to Seoul, so in that sense, Seoul is Korea.
Is there a reason Korean progamers seem way worse than any other foreigner when it comes to speaking english? I mean even the french guys (Stephano, Carn, ToD) speak english in stream and interviews all the time and god knows French are bad with english! Only very few Koreans seem to try and speak english?
If we use the difference between Korean and English as a standard for two separate languages, French and English are dialects. The difference is not comparable.
how much of it is true? tbh this kind of attitude is very bad for mental and emotional health -_-. how and why did korean culture develop in such a fashion?
Yea, the white girl (Kelly?) is also pretty good at Korean, seems like she managed to capture a good bit of what goes on in school in Korea. I'm just gonna focus on the bit about academics. There are some pros along with the cons of such an intense academic setting: Korean students are incredibly disciplined and driven and generally carry a higher expectation in terms of achievement in life. The major con, however, is they almost always get burned out after entering college, and that's why you see everybody getting shitfaced 24/7 and getting academic suspensions left and right. When I came to America, the general lack of pressure and academic rigor shocked me: although it ensures kids don't get burned out from an early age, the base level of education for the majority of kids in the US lacks severely. For example, most Koreans who studied through high school have a comprehensive level of knowledge in a wide array of subjects, such as Korean and international history (to the level of being able to recite all the major newpaper headlines that were printed verbatim given any year in the last century), national and global geography (For example I remember having to memorize all the countries and capitals in Africa and reproduce them given a blank picture of the continent in 7th grade), English, another foreign language, ethics, math, all subjects of science, and even art/art history and music theory. The level of math high school students learn in America is elementary school level math for the smarter kids in Korea, so by "comprehensive level of knowledge" I mean enough to carry a full conversation in that subject for more than 5 minutes. They really don't mess around; studying in the US is child's play, and I mean that in the most non-disrespectful way possible.
I hate to look like an asshole, but I feel like this is whats wrong with this thread. You are being way to sensationalist and generalize everything to the extent where people get the wrong idea. If anyone watches this video they will see that most teenagers in SK look just normal, some go for plastic surgery, some dont, but as a result you wont see a strange-looking crowd full of refugee actors - it still looks normal for the most part. I think OP is so entrenched in all of this he's bypassing the fact that not everyone, possible not even a majority of the population (especially males) is crazy about plastic surgeries, excessive skincare products and hidden heels in their footwear. Maybe it is often true for Seoul, but Seoul is not Korea. I am very skeptical about all of this simply given some of my own experience (I could be wrong but I feel pretty strong about my points).
So basically same goes for the quoted post. I say its bs. I've studied all of that too, pre-university education is indeed way more intense in most civilized countries outside of US, that doesn't mean that random koreans will be able to name capitals of the world or be proficient with every other subject they took up at school. Thats simply not how it works, most of the filler you get at school is gone once you are done with it. Really good students with developed long-term memory will have some leftovers, but there are kids like that everywhere. Best example is English - koreans often study it FOR 11 YEARS and in absolute majority of cases are complete failures at it. I've studied English starting 5th grade in a non-english speaking country with 0 chance to use or experience it outside my class (basically early internet days) and I can vouch that my every classmate came out no better or worse than average korean (given experience once again I'd say most koreans are way worse off in this regard upon graduating, but this is purely anecdotal)
Inability to speak a language you've been studying for 11 years even on a very basic level is something I'm not going to leave unnoticed. Because everything else is the same way, probably aside from math (something that will come and stay for good given the amount of practice they receive). Inability to have your own sense of style and not having to act like everyone else represents a certain level of thinking ability and individuality too, which is what school helps us develop under normal circumstances. Also, don't be clumping all Western countries together, besides high scores on math olympiads koreans are not really dominating sciences. Its just a wishful thinking.
You have a valid point, and plenty of stuff in the OP dug into the extremities of each emerging trend, but it's all true. Also, most of the OP doesn't apply to pre-college teens, who have limited freedom in terms of polishing their looks. OP was targeted at young adults in their early twenties, and they flock to Seoul, so in that sense, Seoul is Korea.
Is there a reason Korean progamers seem way worse than any other foreigner when it comes to speaking english? I mean even the french guys (Stephano, Carn, ToD) speak english in stream and interviews all the time and god knows French are bad with english! Only very few Koreans seem to try and speak english?
Well if you read the post from the guy that said Koreans about not being able to speak English... it explains it. It's pretty much like mandatory for like every parent to send their kid to hagwon. Kids go to school from like 8 to 12 and then go to hagwon everyday after school... they're forced to go pretty much and yeah, it's true they get burned out really quick.
I remember one time when my brother and I went to Korea a long time ago with my family... and we went to my cousin's English hagwon... damn, they be teaching wrong pronunciations. ah part teh ment tuh (apartment), eye suh cuh ream (ice cream). Then they asked my brother to pronounce it and they were like woah O_O. "ooo that's how you say it" (but in Korean)
Like rotineggs said... this is kinda the extreme part of the trend... a lotta people don't stick to the trend 100%... but generally people like to look good.. so people just keep themselves presentable...
I get it more when you explain it :D. So it's not taught well for a first reason and people don't really care / never practice it for a second reason? I mean it's pretty hard for me to get it because well as the post of that "guy said" 11 years of teaching you should be able to speak it :S. Besides, the OP seem pretty good at at least writing english. I'm just wondering if it's just a difference between written english and speaking it?
nch guys (Stephano, Carn, ToD) speak english in stream and interviews all the time and god knows French are bad with english! Only very few Koreans seem to try and speak english?
If we use the difference between Korean and English as a standard for two separate languages, French and English are dialects. The difference is not comparable.
French has strong latin roots and english strong saxon roots. Basically two different language. We use the same letters but the way it is spoken is really different. French is closer to spanish / italian and english is closer to german for example. Some words are close due to the proximity though. However I shouldn't have made that comparison it doesn't really makes sense.
how much of it is true? tbh this kind of attitude is very bad for mental and emotional health -_-. how and why did korean culture develop in such a fashion?
Yea, the white girl (Kelly?) is also pretty good at Korean, seems like she managed to capture a good bit of what goes on in school in Korea. I'm just gonna focus on the bit about academics. There are some pros along with the cons of such an intense academic setting: Korean students are incredibly disciplined and driven and generally carry a higher expectation in terms of achievement in life. The major con, however, is they almost always get burned out after entering college, and that's why you see everybody getting shitfaced 24/7 and getting academic suspensions left and right. When I came to America, the general lack of pressure and academic rigor shocked me: although it ensures kids don't get burned out from an early age, the base level of education for the majority of kids in the US lacks severely. For example, most Koreans who studied through high school have a comprehensive level of knowledge in a wide array of subjects, such as Korean and international history (to the level of being able to recite all the major newpaper headlines that were printed verbatim given any year in the last century), national and global geography (For example I remember having to memorize all the countries and capitals in Africa and reproduce them given a blank picture of the continent in 7th grade), English, another foreign language, ethics, math, all subjects of science, and even art/art history and music theory. The level of math high school students learn in America is elementary school level math for the smarter kids in Korea, so by "comprehensive level of knowledge" I mean enough to carry a full conversation in that subject for more than 5 minutes. They really don't mess around; studying in the US is child's play, and I mean that in the most non-disrespectful way possible.
of course its child play... because theyre children. lmao. and what exactly is ethics...
i personally feel that here in australia, i needed some motivation and a little push, which is what i didnt get. in high school no-one(as in teachers) would help or encourage me, which is kind of what i feel teachers should do, so i just spent most of the time playing games and messing around, so in that sense, i think a little more encouragement by the "establishment" would be nice, but clearly not to this level. if kids want to pursue knowledge then there should always be that option, but at the same time music theory? ethics? all subjects of science? geography? alot of this isn't needed. maybe catering the curriculum towards the idea that people are actually unique and individuals, and giving them the option to pursue what they want, as clearly korea has alot of options in high school, would be the better way to go imo.
On March 19 2012 06:23 Lexpar wrote: Pretty neat article. The minutia of other cultures is always so interesting to me. I knew that in SK was stuck in something that resembled western-90s pop culture, but had no idea what extent people my age were going through to look good there. Are all young Koreans really obsessed with looks? I know people here in Montreal who are fairly obsessed (artificial tanning, hair extensions, nose-jobs), but I think the vast majority of people I know don't really care (or at least the style is to look like you don't care).
Even very good looking girls (unless their look-obsessed) usually only have a few outfits they wear, and long messy hair has always been popular/sexy here.
Maybe it's the french aspect- but wearing jeans and a wool/leather jacket, unkempt hair, and stubble has always been the height of male sexiness here.
o.0, i must be hot shit in Canda^^ no but seriously, it sounds awesome in Canada I want to go there :=)
#canada ftw wins at culture
i have to disagree with that though. I live in Montreal too, and I feel like people are trying to LOOK like they don't care about their looks. Everybody is walking around with "vintage" looking clothes and "out of bed" unkept hair that actually took half hour to do. Everybody has those vintage boots. The illusion is usually broken with the over expensive Canada Goose coats
You know the first course Aristotle used to teach? Logic. The idea is to build a foundation for individuals to know how to learn on their own, with their own interests, and own techniques. Rote memorization teaches you nothing. I find almost anywhere you go pedagogy has turned into a bureaucratic, socialized, robotic collectivization, that treats everyone as a member of the borg, and inspires or draws out no creativity, no individuality, no entreprenuership, no actual learning. A real shame.
If you read the average correspondance by an American in the mid to late 1800s...you will be astonished by the vastness of their vocabulary compared to today. Not everyone needs to be a scientist, not everyone needs to be a mathematician, and indeed a lot of people are simply not born to be. Having everyone shuttle on down the proverbial production line is heinously destructive to society and progress.
As far as the superficiality of SK....what do you expect when Asian culture has no understanding, or love of individuality?
I hate to look like an asshole, but I feel like this is whats wrong with this thread. You are being way to sensationalist and generalize everything to the extent where people get the wrong idea. If anyone watches this video they will see that most teenagers in SK look just normal, some go for plastic surgery, some dont, but as a result you wont see a strange-looking crowd full of refugee actors - it still looks normal for the most part. I think OP is so entrenched in all of this he's bypassing the fact that not everyone, possible not even a majority of the population (especially males) is crazy about plastic surgeries, excessive skincare products and hidden heels in their footwear. Maybe it is often true for Seoul, but Seoul is not Korea. I am very skeptical about all of this simply given some of my own experience (I could be wrong but I feel pretty strong about my points). .
I couldn't have said it better!
First I thought I was in allkpop.com with all the generalization and stereotypes especially from people that has never lived in Korea and yes this includes Koreans living oversea. To be quite honest, these are stuff you see in red herring and not what I would expect in teamliquid.
This is no different than saying how all americans are fat, lazy, arrogant, and ignorant when in reality most americans are hard working and friendly people like in everywhere else.
As ecstatica said it perfectly, reality is, majority of the population don't to plastic surgery especially males, it's actually quite rare among men. Also, normal Korean people don't bluntly make fun of each other based on their apperance. It's actually opposite since Koreans aren't normally as open minded as westerners in expressing their emotions. They might do it jokingly with their close firends but rarely ever infront of people outside of that circle and this includes co-workers. Maybe in the internet but people will say anything behind a computer.
I'll admit that plastic surgery is much more common among females in Korea but the way the OP presents it, it's over exaggeration. Most common surgery is the simple double eye-lid surgery (which can be equivalent of braces in the states) and most of them don't go beyond that since other surgeries as nose jobs are still considered somewhat dangerous.
Also, keep in mind that the increase numbers of plastic surgeries recently can mostly be contributed to foreign patients that make up to 30-50% depending on the clinics.
If you check the numbers before the medical tourism boom, S.Korea wasn't that much higher than other developed Asian countries like Japan, Hong Kong, etc.
Sure I'm not denying the fact that Koreans do tend to be little bit more aware of how they look and how they dress but they are nowhere near the superficial shallow racist idiots that look down on anyone with even the slightest dark complexion. With all due respect to whoever wrote the OP I don't think he ever lived a day in Korea. Those are stuff that you see in internet on naver, daum, and nate, and doesn't really represent the people that actually live in South Korea.
Even among the celebrities there are alot of them that haven't went under knife. Nothing more amusing than a self-defeatist attitude that somehow Asians can never look pretty without going under a surgery.
I have nothing against the OP but just want people to know that there is always two-sides of the story. This is coming from someone who was born and raised in S.Korea.
On March 19 2012 06:23 Lexpar wrote: Pretty neat article. The minutia of other cultures is always so interesting to me. I knew that in SK was stuck in something that resembled western-90s pop culture, but had no idea what extent people my age were going through to look good there. Are all young Koreans really obsessed with looks? I know people here in Montreal who are fairly obsessed (artificial tanning, hair extensions, nose-jobs), but I think the vast majority of people I know don't really care (or at least the style is to look like you don't care).
Even very good looking girls (unless their look-obsessed) usually only have a few outfits they wear, and long messy hair has always been popular/sexy here.
Maybe it's the french aspect- but wearing jeans and a wool/leather jacket, unkempt hair, and stubble has always been the height of male sexiness here.
o.0, i must be hot shit in Canda^^ no but seriously, it sounds awesome in Canada I want to go there :=)
#canada ftw wins at culture
i have to disagree with that though. I live in Montreal too, and I feel like people are trying to LOOK like they don't care about their looks. Everybody is walking around with "vintage" looking clothes and "out of bed" unkept hair that actually took half hour to do. Everybody has those vintage boots. The illusion is usually broken with the over expensive Canada Goose coats
I thought that was just a French-thing. Har-Har :p
Depending on where you live here in the States, the average attire will either be practical wear (aka rural folk), or your urbanized hipster look (then you have your sub-cultures within like say..Ghetto, or Sub-urbs). I find it all to be rather comical. I wear what is comfortable and with me being in Florida, that usually consists of flip flops, boardshort, and a columbia button up long-sleeve polyester shirt. I'd feel so out of place in SK lol. I guess I'm a better fit with Hawaiins. Maholo!
how much of it is true? tbh this kind of attitude is very bad for mental and emotional health -_-. how and why did korean culture develop in such a fashion?
Yea, the white girl (Kelly?) is also pretty good at Korean, seems like she managed to capture a good bit of what goes on in school in Korea. I'm just gonna focus on the bit about academics. There are some pros along with the cons of such an intense academic setting: Korean students are incredibly disciplined and driven and generally carry a higher expectation in terms of achievement in life. The major con, however, is they almost always get burned out after entering college, and that's why you see everybody getting shitfaced 24/7 and getting academic suspensions left and right. When I came to America, the general lack of pressure and academic rigor shocked me: although it ensures kids don't get burned out from an early age, the base level of education for the majority of kids in the US lacks severely. For example, most Koreans who studied through high school have a comprehensive level of knowledge in a wide array of subjects, such as Korean and international history (to the level of being able to recite all the major newpaper headlines that were printed verbatim given any year in the last century), national and global geography (For example I remember having to memorize all the countries and capitals in Africa and reproduce them given a blank picture of the continent in 7th grade), English, another foreign language, ethics, math, all subjects of science, and even art/art history and music theory. The level of math high school students learn in America is elementary school level math for the smarter kids in Korea, so by "comprehensive level of knowledge" I mean enough to carry a full conversation in that subject for more than 5 minutes. They really don't mess around; studying in the US is child's play, and I mean that in the most non-disrespectful way possible.
I hate to look like an asshole, but I feel like this is whats wrong with this thread. You are being way to sensationalist and generalize everything to the extent where people get the wrong idea. If anyone watches this video they will see that most teenagers in SK look just normal, some go for plastic surgery, some dont, but as a result you wont see a strange-looking crowd full of refugee actors - it still looks normal for the most part. I think OP is so entrenched in all of this he's bypassing the fact that not everyone, possible not even a majority of the population (especially males) is crazy about plastic surgeries, excessive skincare products and hidden heels in their footwear. Maybe it is often true for Seoul, but Seoul is not Korea. I am very skeptical about all of this simply given some of my own experience (I could be wrong but I feel pretty strong about my points).
So basically same goes for the quoted post. I say its bs. I've studied all of that too, pre-university education is indeed way more intense in most civilized countries outside of US, that doesn't mean that random koreans will be able to name capitals of the world or be proficient with every other subject they took up at school. Thats simply not how it works, most of the filler you get at school is gone once you are done with it. Really good students with developed long-term memory will have some leftovers, but there are kids like that everywhere. Best example is English - koreans often study it FOR 11 YEARS and in absolute majority of cases are complete failures at it. I've studied English starting 5th grade in a non-english speaking country with 0 chance to use or experience it outside my class (basically early internet days) and I can vouch that my every classmate came out no better or worse than average korean (given experience once again I'd say most koreans are way worse off in this regard upon graduating, but this is purely anecdotal)
Inability to speak a language you've been studying for 11 years even on a very basic level is something I'm not going to leave unnoticed. Because everything else is the same way, probably aside from math (something that will come and stay for good given the amount of practice they receive). Inability to have your own sense of style and not having to act like everyone else represents a certain level of thinking ability and individuality too, which is what school helps us develop under normal circumstances. Also, don't be clumping all Western countries together, besides high scores on math olympiads koreans are not really dominating sciences. Its just a wishful thinking.
You have a valid point, and plenty of stuff in the OP dug into the extremities of each emerging trend, but it's all true. Also, most of the OP doesn't apply to pre-college teens, who have limited freedom in terms of polishing their looks. OP was targeted at young adults in their early twenties, and they flock to Seoul, so in that sense, Seoul is Korea.
Is there a reason Korean progamers seem way worse than any other foreigner when it comes to speaking english? I mean even the french guys (Stephano, Carn, ToD) speak english in stream and interviews all the time and god knows French are bad with english! Only very few Koreans seem to try and speak english?
Well if you read the post from the guy that said Koreans about not being able to speak English... it explains it. It's pretty much like mandatory for like every parent to send their kid to hagwon. Kids go to school from like 8 to 12 and then go to hagwon everyday after school... they're forced to go pretty much and yeah, it's true they get burned out really quick.
I remember one time when my brother and I went to Korea a long time ago with my family... and we went to my cousin's English hagwon... damn, they be teaching wrong pronunciations. ah part teh ment tuh (apartment), eye suh cuh ream (ice cream). Then they asked my brother to pronounce it and they were like woah O_O. "ooo that's how you say it" (but in Korean)
Like rotinegg said... this is kinda the extreme part of the trend... a lotta people don't stick to the trend 100%... but generally people like to look good.. so people just keep themselves presentable...
the biggest problem for Koreans and Japanese is to get away from their syllabee thinking. Both languages and their writing are build around syllabee's. This leads to the most common problem both countries have. They cant pronounce english because the letters in the english language do not fall into the pronounciation pattern they are used to.
This leads to monsters like i-su ku-ri-mu ( ice cream), this is still an easy example how both of these languages try to force english into their own style of writing and speaking leading to horrible pronounciation.
Another big difference is the grammar. Korean and Japanese are suffix based languages and english is not, so while Koreans and Japanese would have an easy time learning turkish grammar ( same language family ) they have it a lot lot harder to learn germanic languages like english that are based on prepositions.
I hate to look like an asshole, but I feel like this is whats wrong with this thread. You are being way to sensationalist and generalize everything to the extent where people get the wrong idea. If anyone watches this video they will see that most teenagers in SK look just normal, some go for plastic surgery, some dont, but as a result you wont see a strange-looking crowd full of refugee actors - it still looks normal for the most part. I think OP is so entrenched in all of this he's bypassing the fact that not everyone, possible not even a majority of the population (especially males) is crazy about plastic surgeries, excessive skincare products and hidden heels in their footwear. Maybe it is often true for Seoul, but Seoul is not Korea. I am very skeptical about all of this simply given some of my own experience (I could be wrong but I feel pretty strong about my points). .
I couldn't have said it better!
First I thought I was in allkpop.com with all the generalization and stereotypes especially from people that has never lived in Korea and yes this includes Koreans living oversea. To be quite honest, these are stuff you see in red herring and not what I would expect in teamliquid.
This is no different than saying how all americans are fat, lazy, arrogant, and ignorant when in reality most americans are hard working and friendly people like in everywhere else.
As ecstatica said it perfectly, reality is, majority of the population don't to plastic surgery especially males, it's actually quite rare among men. Also, normal Korean people don't bluntly make fun of each other based on their apperance. It's actually opposite since Koreans aren't normally as open minded as westerners in expressing their emotions. They might do it jokingly with their close firends but rarely ever infront of people outside of that circle and this includes co-workers. Maybe in the internet but people will say anything behind a computer.
I'll admit that plastic surgery is much more common among females in Korea but the way the OP presents it, it's over exaggeration. Most common surgery is the simple double eye-lid surgery (which can be equivalent of braces in the states) and most of them don't go beyond that since other surgeries as nose jobs are still considered somewhat dangerous.
Also, keep in mind that the increase numbers of plastic surgeries recently can mostly be contributed to foreign patients that make up to 30-50% depending on the clinics.
If you check the numbers before the medical tourism boom, S.Korea wasn't that much higher than other developed Asian countries like Japan, Hong Kong, etc.
Sure I'm not denying the fact that Koreans do tend to be little bit more aware of how they look and how they dress but they are nowhere near the superficial shallow racist idiots that look down on anyone with even the slightest dark complexion. With all due respect to whoever wrote the OP I don't think he ever lived a day in Korea. Those are stuff that you see in internet on naver, daum, and nate, and doesn't really represent the people that actually live in South Korea.
Even among the celebrities there are alot of them that haven't went under knife. Nothing more amusing than a self-defeatist attitude that somehow Asians can never look pretty without going under a surgery.
I have nothing against the OP but just want people to know that there is always two-sides of the story. This is coming from someone who was born and raised in S.Korea.
Upon second thought it might be better to just talk in private
I don't have any sources for the OP because I wrote it from my experiences of living in Korea from 1st to 9th grade and spending my vacations at home in 분당/서울, where I still live.
EPT
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