Thanks rotinegg, I can't wait for em to come through the mail.
On March 20 2012 00:27 OneOther wrote: I don't know how I feel about height boosting soles...just own up to your height and work your other qualities!
Honestly when you're as short as I am, height becomes a much bigger deal than it should be. Even if you know better, meaning understanding that height isn't everything, it's still in the back of your mind. I mean if you're able to completely block out it out of your mind then good for you but it's not as easy for everyone =[
Sadly, this article made me really glad I don't live in Korea. I am already staunchly against America's terrible superficial culture, but this sounds like it's a hundred times worse. At least in America, nearly everyone can overcome any physical issues pretty easily. You don't need to be "pretty" to be a CEO...in fact, most aren't. You can avoid the "Hollywood Effect" in America...but it sounds like in Korea that's all there is. Kind of sad actually.
On March 20 2012 01:40 rotinegg wrote: [ Yea, the white girl (Kelly?) is also pretty good at Korean, seems like she managed to capture a good bit of what goes on in school in Korea. I'm just gonna focus on the bit about academics. There are some pros along with the cons of such an intense academic setting: Korean students are incredibly disciplined and driven and generally carry a higher expectation in terms of achievement in life. The major con, however, is they almost always get burned out after entering college, and that's why you see everybody getting shitfaced 24/7 and getting academic suspensions left and right. When I came to America, the general lack of pressure and academic rigor shocked me: although it ensures kids don't get burned out from an early age, the base level of education for the majority of kids in the US lacks severely. For example, most Koreans who studied through high school have a comprehensive level of knowledge in a wide array of subjects, such as Korean and international history (to the level of being able to recite all the major newpaper headlines that were printed verbatim given any year in the last century), national and global geography (For example I remember having to memorize all the countries and capitals in Africa and reproduce them given a blank picture of the continent in 7th grade), English, another foreign language, ethics, math, all subjects of science, and even art/art history and music theory. The level of math high school students learn in America is elementary school level math for the smarter kids in Korea, so by "comprehensive level of knowledge" I mean enough to carry a full conversation in that subject for more than 5 minutes. They really don't mess around; studying in the US is child's play, and I mean that in the most non-disrespectful way possible.
I agree with this. Coming from Singapore, i can say our culture here is really similar to what you mentioned in your OP, but alot less toned down and much more balanced. Haha i really share the same sediments regarding the fact that the western countries' level of basic education is so much lower compared to the asian countries (hence the term Level:Asian). But i think the bigger con of such a system is not in the fact that people get burnt out studying, but more that everyone gets cookie cut into the same model, with the faulty ones getting thrown away / studying overseas for an easier time. This leads to a lack of diversity and a progressive strangulation of creativity.
It really is just 2 ends of a spectrum. Too much freedom, leads to a lack of directed progression. Too streamlined and everyone becomes a clone of each other.
On March 20 2012 01:40 rotinegg wrote: [ Yea, the white girl (Kelly?) is also pretty good at Korean, seems like she managed to capture a good bit of what goes on in school in Korea. I'm just gonna focus on the bit about academics. There are some pros along with the cons of such an intense academic setting: Korean students are incredibly disciplined and driven and generally carry a higher expectation in terms of achievement in life. The major con, however, is they almost always get burned out after entering college, and that's why you see everybody getting shitfaced 24/7 and getting academic suspensions left and right. When I came to America, the general lack of pressure and academic rigor shocked me: although it ensures kids don't get burned out from an early age, the base level of education for the majority of kids in the US lacks severely. For example, most Koreans who studied through high school have a comprehensive level of knowledge in a wide array of subjects, such as Korean and international history (to the level of being able to recite all the major newpaper headlines that were printed verbatim given any year in the last century), national and global geography (For example I remember having to memorize all the countries and capitals in Africa and reproduce them given a blank picture of the continent in 7th grade), English, another foreign language, ethics, math, all subjects of science, and even art/art history and music theory. The level of math high school students learn in America is elementary school level math for the smarter kids in Korea, so by "comprehensive level of knowledge" I mean enough to carry a full conversation in that subject for more than 5 minutes. They really don't mess around; studying in the US is child's play, and I mean that in the most non-disrespectful way possible.
I agree with this. Coming from Singapore, i can say our culture here is really similar to what you mentioned in your OP, but alot less toned down and much more balanced. Haha i really share the same sediments regarding the fact that the western countries' level of basic education is so much lower compared to the asian countries (hence the term Level:Asian). But i think the bigger con of such a system is not in the fact that people get burnt out studying, but more that everyone gets cookie cut into the same model, with the faulty ones getting thrown away / studying overseas for an easier time. This leads to a lack of diversity and a progressive strangulation of creativity.
It really is just 2 ends of a spectrum. Too much freedom, leads to a lack of directed progression. Too streamlined and everyone becomes a clone of each other.
Too bad we cant have the best of both worlds? =(
i am asian but grew up in america so i don't know much about asian culture. my thinking is that ppl in asian countries tend to be a lot more openly critical of flaws, be it academic performance or physical looks. this will then lead to the emulation of famous and popular people and styles.
i see benefits and problems from this way of thinking. in general, having people give constructive criticism is good- then you can construct yourself better, study harder, dress better, etc. i'm not comfortable though with the way in which this criticism is given.
i also think this leads to a slippery slop where you are willing to change everything about yourself to be better. two problems i see in this...the idea leads to a very negative mindset where you used to be shit and if you do "better" you can become less shit and more awesome. this totally laughs at the whole "to thine own self be true" stuff westerners have going on. secondly, there is no set threshold of where you should stop changing yourself at the cost of your mental and emotional and physical health. and as i saw from the video, some people just go past that threshold and that leads to self destruction (NOOO GEODUUUDE!!).
I think the problem that a lot of people have with the criticism of people based on clothing and looks is that, ultimately, it's completely meaningless. Is wearing Apple Bottom Jeans and a Louie Vatoun purse going to help you cure cancer, or feed the hungry and poor? No, it's not. When you are laying on your death bed, are you going to be remembering all the high priced shopping trips you took to buy designer clothes? Highly unlikely. When you're holding your first born, are you going to whisper sweet nothings in their ear about how you'll make sure they always have an American Eagle credit card and the newest Air Jordans? I would hope not.
That is the primary issue with this sort of mentality. It places ridiculous premium on what amounts to completely meaningless measures of "good". That's why to many people it's disgusting and abhorrent, because it shows a complete and total lack of perspective at a cultural level.
Education is different. I absolutely agree that education in America needs to be much more rigorous and filled with a bit of pressure, though I think there always has to be options for students with alternative learning methods (because we've learned enough over the years to know that not everyone learns the same)...and no I don't mean special ed.
On March 20 2012 01:18 Diglett wrote: would the ppl that know korea take at look at this video?
how much of it is true? tbh this kind of attitude is very bad for mental and emotional health -_-. how and why did korean culture develop in such a fashion?
Yea, the white girl (Kelly?) is also pretty good at Korean, seems like she managed to capture a good bit of what goes on in school in Korea. I'm just gonna focus on the bit about academics. There are some pros along with the cons of such an intense academic setting: Korean students are incredibly disciplined and driven and generally carry a higher expectation in terms of achievement in life. The major con, however, is they almost always get burned out after entering college, and that's why you see everybody getting shitfaced 24/7 and getting academic suspensions left and right. When I came to America, the general lack of pressure and academic rigor shocked me: although it ensures kids don't get burned out from an early age, the base level of education for the majority of kids in the US lacks severely. For example, most Koreans who studied through high school have a comprehensive level of knowledge in a wide array of subjects, such as Korean and international history (to the level of being able to recite all the major newpaper headlines that were printed verbatim given any year in the last century), national and global geography (For example I remember having to memorize all the countries and capitals in Africa and reproduce them given a blank picture of the continent in 7th grade), English, another foreign language, ethics, math, all subjects of science, and even art/art history and music theory. The level of math high school students learn in America is elementary school level math for the smarter kids in Korea, so by "comprehensive level of knowledge" I mean enough to carry a full conversation in that subject for more than 5 minutes. They really don't mess around; studying in the US is child's play, and I mean that in the most non-disrespectful way possible.
I know almost all American high school education is a complete joke, but Korea seems to be too extreme. ''To the level of being able to recite all the major newspaper headlines that were printed verbatim given any year in the last century''? This is just mindless memorization, no understanding whatsoever, anybody can do this if you just put in the effort. I believe time would be better spent doing something else. This just seems so pointless. I remember at the age of twelve having to do the same thing with continents around the world. I would wake up 10 minutes earlier, think of some kind of rhythm and then sing the 30+ or so names I had to learn in my head whilst driving to school on my bike. I would keep this rhythm in my memory untill the test finished then I would almost instantly completely forget everything haha. Ah, the memories of elementary school
how much of it is true? tbh this kind of attitude is very bad for mental and emotional health -_-. how and why did korean culture develop in such a fashion?
Yea, the white girl (Kelly?) is also pretty good at Korean, seems like she managed to capture a good bit of what goes on in school in Korea. I'm just gonna focus on the bit about academics. There are some pros along with the cons of such an intense academic setting: Korean students are incredibly disciplined and driven and generally carry a higher expectation in terms of achievement in life. The major con, however, is they almost always get burned out after entering college, and that's why you see everybody getting shitfaced 24/7 and getting academic suspensions left and right. When I came to America, the general lack of pressure and academic rigor shocked me: although it ensures kids don't get burned out from an early age, the base level of education for the majority of kids in the US lacks severely. For example, most Koreans who studied through high school have a comprehensive level of knowledge in a wide array of subjects, such as Korean and international history (to the level of being able to recite all the major newpaper headlines that were printed verbatim given any year in the last century), national and global geography (For example I remember having to memorize all the countries and capitals in Africa and reproduce them given a blank picture of the continent in 7th grade), English, another foreign language, ethics, math, all subjects of science, and even art/art history and music theory. The level of math high school students learn in America is elementary school level math for the smarter kids in Korea, so by "comprehensive level of knowledge" I mean enough to carry a full conversation in that subject for more than 5 minutes. They really don't mess around; studying in the US is child's play, and I mean that in the most non-disrespectful way possible.
I know almost all American high school education is a complete joke, but Korea seems to be too extreme. ''To the level of being able to recite all the major newspaper headlines that were printed verbatim given any year in the last century''? This is just mindless memorization, no understanding whatsoever, anybody can do this if you just put in the effort. I believe time would be better spent doing something else. I remember at the age of twelve having to do the same thing with continents around the world. I would wake up 10 minutes earlier, think of some kind of rhythm and then sing the 30+ or so names I had to learn in my head whilst driving to school on my bike. I would keep this rhythm in my memory untill the test finished then I would almost instantly completely forget everything haha. Ah, the memories of elementary school
Well the implication being that they study the events associated with the headlines, and retain enough of it to have a general understanding of the flow of modern history haha I agree that most of it is mindless memorization, but for some subjects like biology, that's what you end up doing most of the time in the 'free-er minded' countries anyway
True. Maybe it's just me but I never really liked the process of just remembering stuff. I get extremely bored. It's probably why my favorite subjects are Physics and Math.
On March 20 2012 01:40 rotinegg wrote: [ Yea, the white girl (Kelly?) is also pretty good at Korean, seems like she managed to capture a good bit of what goes on in school in Korea. I'm just gonna focus on the bit about academics. There are some pros along with the cons of such an intense academic setting: Korean students are incredibly disciplined and driven and generally carry a higher expectation in terms of achievement in life. The major con, however, is they almost always get burned out after entering college, and that's why you see everybody getting shitfaced 24/7 and getting academic suspensions left and right. When I came to America, the general lack of pressure and academic rigor shocked me: although it ensures kids don't get burned out from an early age, the base level of education for the majority of kids in the US lacks severely. For example, most Koreans who studied through high school have a comprehensive level of knowledge in a wide array of subjects, such as Korean and international history (to the level of being able to recite all the major newpaper headlines that were printed verbatim given any year in the last century), national and global geography (For example I remember having to memorize all the countries and capitals in Africa and reproduce them given a blank picture of the continent in 7th grade), English, another foreign language, ethics, math, all subjects of science, and even art/art history and music theory. The level of math high school students learn in America is elementary school level math for the smarter kids in Korea, so by "comprehensive level of knowledge" I mean enough to carry a full conversation in that subject for more than 5 minutes. They really don't mess around; studying in the US is child's play, and I mean that in the most non-disrespectful way possible.
I agree with this. Coming from Singapore, i can say our culture here is really similar to what you mentioned in your OP, but alot less toned down and much more balanced. Haha i really share the same sediments regarding the fact that the western countries' level of basic education is so much lower compared to the asian countries (hence the term Level:Asian). But i think the bigger con of such a system is not in the fact that people get burnt out studying, but more that everyone gets cookie cut into the same model, with the faulty ones getting thrown away / studying overseas for an easier time. This leads to a lack of diversity and a progressive strangulation of creativity.
It really is just 2 ends of a spectrum. Too much freedom, leads to a lack of directed progression. Too streamlined and everyone becomes a clone of each other.
how much of it is true? tbh this kind of attitude is very bad for mental and emotional health -_-. how and why did korean culture develop in such a fashion?
Yea, the white girl (Kelly?) is also pretty good at Korean, seems like she managed to capture a good bit of what goes on in school in Korea. I'm just gonna focus on the bit about academics. There are some pros along with the cons of such an intense academic setting: Korean students are incredibly disciplined and driven and generally carry a higher expectation in terms of achievement in life. The major con, however, is they almost always get burned out after entering college, and that's why you see everybody getting shitfaced 24/7 and getting academic suspensions left and right. When I came to America, the general lack of pressure and academic rigor shocked me: although it ensures kids don't get burned out from an early age, the base level of education for the majority of kids in the US lacks severely. For example, most Koreans who studied through high school have a comprehensive level of knowledge in a wide array of subjects, such as Korean and international history (to the level of being able to recite all the major newpaper headlines that were printed verbatim given any year in the last century), national and global geography (For example I remember having to memorize all the countries and capitals in Africa and reproduce them given a blank picture of the continent in 7th grade), English, another foreign language, ethics, math, all subjects of science, and even art/art history and music theory. The level of math high school students learn in America is elementary school level math for the smarter kids in Korea, so by "comprehensive level of knowledge" I mean enough to carry a full conversation in that subject for more than 5 minutes. They really don't mess around; studying in the US is child's play, and I mean that in the most non-disrespectful way possible.
I hate to look like an asshole, but I feel like this is whats wrong with this thread. You are being way to sensationalist and generalize everything to the extent where people get the wrong idea. If anyone watches this video they will see that most teenagers in SK look just normal, some go for plastic surgery, some dont, but as a result you wont see a strange-looking crowd full of refugee actors - it still looks normal for the most part. I think OP is so entrenched in all of this he's bypassing the fact that not everyone, possible not even a majority of the population (especially males) is crazy about plastic surgeries, excessive skincare products and hidden heels in their footwear. Maybe it is often true for Seoul, but Seoul is not Korea. I am very skeptical about all of this simply given some of my own experience (I could be wrong but I feel pretty strong about my points).
So basically same goes for the quoted post. I say its bs. I've studied all of that too, pre-university education is indeed way more intense in most civilized countries outside of US, that doesn't mean that random koreans will be able to name capitals of the world or be proficient with every other subject they took up at school. Thats simply not how it works, most of the filler you get at school is gone once you are done with it. Really good students with developed long-term memory will have some leftovers, but there are kids like that everywhere. Best example is English - koreans often study it FOR 11 YEARS and in absolute majority of cases are complete failures at it. I've studied English starting 5th grade in a non-english speaking country with 0 chance to use or experience it outside my class (basically early internet days) and I can vouch that my every classmate came out no better or worse than average korean (given experience once again I'd say most koreans are way worse off in this regard upon graduating, but this is purely anecdotal)
Inability to speak a language you've been studying for 11 years even on a very basic level is something I'm not going to leave unnoticed. Because everything else is the same way, probably aside from math (something that will come and stay for good given the amount of practice they receive). Inability to have your own sense of style and not having to act like everyone else represents a certain level of thinking ability and individuality too, which is what school helps us develop under normal circumstances. Also, don't be clumping all Western countries together, besides high scores on math olympiads koreans are not really dominating sciences. Its just a wishful thinking.
Germany has higher medal count per participation than SK and how often do you hear about it? Check Iran, Hungary, Romania, Poland, Bulgaria etc. All of them are even better or at least not worse than SK (which does super respectable too and is probably top 10, too lazy to calculate) Outside of China every Asian country is just not exceptional on that list. So I'm not sure how your education system is so much greater than 'western' while in reality koreans dont even outperform their western competition at their supposedly best discipline.
I think SK education is terrific, highschool is way above USA. But considering everything it is still very weak compared to top European countries. School isn't just sciences.
On March 20 2012 04:34 Skeggaba wrote: 6´3 thin but blonde hair and blue eyes - how will i do?
Aslong as you take good care of your skin, dress properly and dont have a haircut looking like u just came from the wild, then ur all good like everybody else
I notice from that wiki page someone linked that the UK is shadowing SK by a place or two in reading and science (DQed from maths, unsure why). I can tell you that our schooling system is ultra relaxed. I was shocked when I heard about Hagwons and the pressure SK students are put under, and the truth is the returns are practically non existent.
These kids need room to breathe and grow into happy, healthy and productive adults. SK seems to want to drive them into the ground or turn them into robots. This has to be a big factor in SK's crazy suicide rate.
USA public education sucks, but a part of that is because we tend to pander to the lowest common denominator. Admirable, in a way, to make sure that not everyone gets left behind, but it sometimes drags down our brightest along with it -- which is terrible and harmful for some (I know at least two cases in which students were not placed into the proper level and had to suffer for it in the future), but in actuality, seems to work fairly okay in practice most of the times. I don't think our top 5%, for instance, lags behind the top 5% in any other country, despite our poor public education, though to be fair, some of the top 5% also attended private schools over public schools, but I still don't think the majority did. For instance, while our math classes in HS are laughable at times, it does give those who are inclined towards math much more time to pursue math at a higher level by themselves, which they're often happier doing anyways outside of a classroom setting.
Most of the facts you learn in HS is lost anyways once you go to college and specialize.
EPT
