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or a VOD.
I just had an argument with my EU clan mate over Hellions in TvP.
My point is to instead of using the factory to scout, placing it next to a reactor and pump Hellions that can be used to kite Zealots. I don't mean to really sacrifice numbers of Marines and Marauders but do them as a support unit.
I think that zeals are problematic for terrans, especially in late game and with too many marauders on T side. I don't understand why Terrans don't try to experiment with Hellions as a support unit for main MMMGV force.
Zeals on charge are as fast as Hellions which means they can be kited forever!
It takes 12 Hellion shots to kill a line of zeals and 9 with pre igniter researched.
My request is for you to find me a sc2 replay or VOD of pro players with Hellions used but not a mech play and not with just Hellion drops.
We need to see Hellions used on the field, kiteing zeals with success.
 
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because colsi have 9 range and most likely 99% of protoss's will get colsi in their army composition. With a hellion range of 5, you can't do much to pick off the zealots unless you catch him severely off guard, which is not a factor that you can control
They also eat up in supply later on. Having simply 10 hellions is 20 supply that you are committing to which is another very important thing to consider
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Sadly, hellions get ripped to shreds by collossi or stalkers.
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So if this VoD is found you get a beer, but what do we get?
Why not just go into YABOT and show this to him if you believe it is true?
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On March 13 2012 06:49 Br3ezy wrote:
because colsi have 9 range and most likely 99% of protoss's will get colsi in their army composition. With a hellion range of 5, you can't do much to pick off the zealots unless you catch him severely off guard, which is not a factor that you can control
They also eat up in supply later on. Having simply 10 hellions is 20 supply that you are committing to which is another very important thing to consider
Yeah but when you engage you kite stuff anyways so why not add Hellions to your mix? There are also times when Vikings kill all of the Colossi and Protoss switches to pure HTs for some time.
Its easy to sacrifice the hellions for the supply after they get their shit done, not every game is a slugfest with no engagements until 200 supply.
On March 13 2012 06:50 Xiron wrote:
Sadly, hellions get ripped to shreds by collossi or stalkers.
Protoss wants to have his zeals in front, so what that Hellions lose to Stalkers if Stalkers lose really badly to bio?
What's more there is always gonna be some small hole where zeals will leak to engage and die 1 by 1 which is also good for terran.
On March 13 2012 06:50 TheToast wrote:
So if this VoD is found you get a beer, but what do we get?
Why not just go into YABOT and show this to him if you believe it is true?
You get my thanks ^^ I don't know what I can give you, beer is for 50-90 cents in Poland.
We played a game but sadly my offracing is bad (I'm a Z user) so I lost and later he decided to be a stubborn faggot and just kill me instead of letting me show him how much zeals I can kill with Hellions.
BTW YABOT is something about unit testing right?
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Watch old dde replays he used that strat and failed vs decent protosses by decent i mean KRs 
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It is a bit tricky to integrate hellions into TvP. Because hellions get their upgrades separate from the bio, you will need to also spend additional resources on mech upgrades or end up with relatively weak units. Furthermore, it is very important in TvP to upgrade air weapons, so that vikings can take down collosus as fast as possible before they deal too much damage. Therefore, hellion upgrades would require an additional armory or delay the crucial air weapons upgrade.
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On March 13 2012 07:04 Severus_ wrote:Watch old dde replays he used that strat and failed vs decent protosses by decent i mean KRs
I need games where terran wins.
On March 13 2012 07:04 Bagration wrote:
It is a bit tricky to integrate hellions into TvP. Because hellions get their upgrades separate from the bio, you will need to also spend additional resources on mech upgrades or end up with relatively weak units. Furthermore, it is very important in TvP to upgrade air weapons, so that vikings can take down collosus as fast as possible before they deal too much damage. Therefore, hellion upgrades would require an additional armory or delay the crucial air weapons upgrade.
Let's calculate: Hellions deal 8 + 6 = 14 damage and 14 + 5 = 19 damage with pre igniter.
That's 12 or 9 Hellions shots with 0 0 upgrades on both sides;
13 or 9 shots vs 1 armor zeals;
14 or 10 shots vs 2 armor zeals;
14 or 11 shots vs 3 armor zeals.
In light of this I think it is unecessary to upgrade Hellions at all since they can't be touched by zeals.
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They just dont seem worth it, but im sure you can find a rep.
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Hellions vs toss. First thing that comes to mind is Jinro vs MC in gsl. But that was straight up mech so it "doesn't count" for some reason. But I'm also half remembering some bizarre 111 thing with marine hellion banshee but I really forgot who did that.
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Whitera played some random EU terran who supplemented his standard ground force with blue flame hellions to help with mass chargelots and won at some point. I'll see if I can find the replay and edit it in.
Edit: Spent about 20 minutes looking for it and couldn't find it, it's probably in one of his replay packs but I'm not going to look through hundreds of games to get you a beer. Sorry dude 
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You also have a problem when hellions' firing rate is much slower than that of marines or marauders... have fun kiting with two control groups of units separately, when most top NA players can't even micro solely bio optimally. As for replays... had a practice partner try this twice against me, didn't work out so well... sorry!
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On March 13 2012 07:30 Ixtlilton wrote:
Whitera played some random EU terran who supplemented his standard ground force with blue flame hellions to help with mass chargelots and won at some point. I'll see if I can find the replay and edit it in.
Thanks in advance man!! ^___^
On March 13 2012 07:32 whistle wrote:
You also have a problem when hellions' firing rate is much slower than that of marines or marauders... have fun kiting with two control groups of units separately, when most top NA players can't even micro solely bio optimally. As for replays... had a practice partner try this twice against me, didn't work out so well... sorry!
I'm not sure if 2 control groups are needed, marines and marauders shoot instantly, don't have to stay still for a second like hellions so they could be all in 1 group. Question is wheter Hellions should be in front, on the back or next to the bio?
I'm thinking they should be next to it, that way they would shoot at zeals while those are in lines or a group.
At the same time Hellions wouldn't draw majority of fire when in front and would use more of the splash than while in the back.
I also need replays of pros 
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Hellions are what you would describe as absolutely fucking useless in TvP.
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On March 13 2012 07:51 Eiaco wrote:
Hellions are what you would describe as absolutely fucking useless in TvP.
If you are close minded than sure. I sometimes hate the metagame because it absofuckinglutely closes minds of players.
It took a 60 shields buff for people to start using warp prism and they are STILL not being hit by anything that hits air.
People don't add roaches to banelings so marine splitting would be useless in ZvT. I'm sure there is more examples.
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They're completely trash used with bio.
If you want them in one control group as you say, the hellions will never fire.
They can be okay as harass units but for killing chargelots, they just do not do it fast enough.
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wasnt the whole point of the HOTS change to hellions (they morph into some transformer looking thing) because they suck ass against zealot/archon mixes?
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On March 13 2012 07:59 JonnyLaw wrote:
They're completely trash used with bio.
If you want them in one control group as you say, the hellions will never fire.
They can be okay as harass units but for killing chargelots, they just do not do it fast enough.
Wait I don't get your post. What do you mean by they will never fire? They are a kiting unit so I guess you are thinking in terms of a move and wait for the outcome. You dont stand still with bio, why would you with Hellions?
On March 13 2012 08:25 dAPhREAk wrote:
wasnt the whole point of the HOTS change to hellions (they morph into some transformer looking thing) because they suck ass against zealot/archon mixes?
Blizzard has shown in their video something like 5 Hellions being chased by 20 zeals and archons iirc. They weren't even kited that well. The change is for noobs who cant kite well. I guess it's going to be usefull if there is no room to kite.
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I know a former GM (currently very high masters) player that goes bf helions to support his bio army vs protoss. He's beaten pros on ladder.. so does that count?
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On March 13 2012 08:35 .Sic. wrote:
I know a former GM (currently very high masters) player that goes bf helions to support his bio army vs protoss. He's beaten pros on ladder.. so does that count?
Sure it does if you can get some replays from him it would be the best if it was against someone well known.
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EPT
