I'm gonna win a beer if you find me sc2 replay - Page 2
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dragonborn
4781 Posts
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Lexpar
1813 Posts
"How am I gonna send 40% of a beer to you?" you're probably asking. "Easy" I say. Luckily my preferred method of alcohol consumption is rectal-tampon. Once I've seen the goods, I'll send you the rep, then you can seal those badboys in a ziplock and get them overnight to Montreal. So this is where we stand. I can't help you unless I get a cut. Upload a picture of the beer soaked tampons (40% of a beer should be about 5), and we'll talk from there. Not that I'm picky, but I prefer tampex. | ||
PH
United States6173 Posts
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Yamulo
United States2096 Posts
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Yamulo
United States2096 Posts
On March 13 2012 07:51 Eiaco wrote: Hellions are what you would describe as absolutely fucking useless in TvP. It is logic like this that prevents people from innovation. Don't ever say anything is useless or bad just because people don't use it, I mean I remember when people didn't use motherships at all and now they are the ultimate end game in PvZ/PvP. I guess something similar would be how terrans never went ghost against zerg until a few months ago, but that ended up getting nerfed T_T. | ||
7mk
Germany10156 Posts
On March 13 2012 06:49 Br3ezy wrote: because colsi have 9 range and most likely 99% of protoss's will get colsi in their army composition. With a hellion range of 5, you can't do much to pick off the zealots unless you catch him severely off guard, which is not a factor that you can control well they certainly dont die to colossi as fast as marines... On March 13 2012 10:12 Yamulo wrote: It is logic like this that prevents people from innovation. Don't ever say anything is useless or bad just because people don't use it, I mean I remember when people didn't use motherships at all and now they are the ultimate end game in PvZ/PvP. I guess something similar would be how terrans never went ghost against zerg until a few months ago, but that ended up getting nerfed T_T. Well using mothership in PvZ was very risky with the old NP range. But overall I still agree with you. All I know for sure is that hellions were definitely underused in PvT before the blue flame nerf... they killed zealots so ridiculously fucking fast it was just sad. @OP I just know that TLO had a hellion + bio opening as his standard opening that he went for every TvP before he switched to Zerg. And I remember some Jinro games where he did some hellion play but I only remember his first attack, not sure about late game. | ||
7mk
Germany10156 Posts
On March 13 2012 08:25 dAPhREAk wrote: wasnt the whole point of the HOTS change to hellions (they morph into some transformer looking thing) because they suck ass against zealot/archon mixes? I think the reason was that people dont like kiting. This way terran can be lazy like protoss. | ||
Blazinghand
United States25546 Posts
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Azzur
Australia6202 Posts
ONE replay of helions kiting zealots doesn't prove anything - it's more than likely there were many failures behind it. | ||
celious
United States195 Posts
They're good for sniping units that are out of position such as templar and sentries but ghosts can do this as well its just not worth the minerals. Also good for mineral line harass but good players will be able to defend it quite easily. | ||
Luepert
United States1932 Posts
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FinestHour
United States18466 Posts
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Nabes
Canada1800 Posts
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beetlelisk
Poland2276 Posts
On March 13 2012 08:46 dragonborn wrote: Socke vs dde Shoutcraft final @metapolis Thank you! And it looks like it's not just that game, I have to watch the whole series ^_____^ On March 13 2012 08:50 Lexpar wrote: A beer!? A whole beer? Alright. I can help. I have what you're looking for- but if you want it, you gotta scratch papa's back first. I don't ask much: we'll call it a 40-60 split. Yeah- I want 40% of the beer. "How am I gonna send 40% of a beer to you?" you're probably asking. "Easy" I say. Luckily my preferred method of alcohol consumption is rectal-tampon. Once I've seen the goods, I'll send you the rep, then you can seal those badboys in a ziplock and get them overnight to Montreal. So this is where we stand. I can't help you unless I get a cut. Upload a picture of the beer soaked tampons (40% of a beer should be about 5), and we'll talk from there. Not that I'm picky, but I prefer tampex. hahahahahahahh I tried to google "wet tampon" but I couldn't find anything except one soaked in blood x( I guess we won't be able to trade On March 13 2012 09:09 PH wrote: Hellions are very difficult to control alongside a MMM bio ball. I've tried it as well, granted not at a meaningfully high level. The big issue is that they just handle very clumsily alongside your bio units. They're also extremely weak to colossi, especially since medivacs can't heal them. There has to be a way to position them properly and the more I think about it the more I'm getting convinced that terran should aim more for late game than mid game to use hellions. As the game progresses there is more zeals in the mix and high chance of killing all colossi with vikings. On March 13 2012 10:12 Yamulo wrote: It is logic like this that prevents people from innovation. Don't ever say anything is useless or bad just because people don't use it, I mean I remember when people didn't use motherships at all and now they are the ultimate end game in PvZ/PvP. I guess something similar would be how terrans never went ghost against zerg until a few months ago, but that ended up getting nerfed T_T. That's exactly my point, thank you for posting ^_____^ On March 13 2012 10:30 7mk wrote: well they certainly dont die to colossi as fast as marines... Well using mothership in PvZ was very risky with the old NP range. But overall I still agree with you. All I know for sure is that hellions were definitely underused in PvT before the blue flame nerf... they killed zealots so ridiculously fucking fast it was just sad. @OP I just know that TLO had a hellion + bio opening as his standard opening that he went for every TvP before he switched to Zerg. And I remember some Jinro games where he did some hellion play but I only remember his first attack, not sure about late game. Thank you. On March 13 2012 11:29 Blazinghand wrote: Would you consider Warden to be a pro? He made extensive use of blue flame hellions in a terran bio mech army iirc. I don't know him but if he has games against more well known pros than I could use his games On March 13 2012 13:20 celious wrote: There are many problems with hellions in TvP in the way that you suggested. Zealot charge will just destroy hellions their dps is too low and it takes to many of them to actually be effective its more efficient to get more MMM. Hellions wont benefit from bio upgrades and zealots are too spread out after charging to be used as a support unit. They're good for sniping units that are out of position such as templar and sentries but ghosts can do this as well its just not worth the minerals. Also good for mineral line harass but good players will be able to defend it quite easily. The idea is you kite with Hellions, charging zeals are as fast as moving hellions which means they cant even touch hellions because they run out of charge. Yes zeals are spread out after charging and that's the another reason to kite because you force them to move in a line or a group. I already did calculation involving upgrades and I don't see much difference between 12 to 14 hellions shots to kill a bunch of zeals or 9 to 11 shots with pre igniter. Upgrades don't matter so much. On March 13 2012 13:24 Luepert wrote: Speak of the devil, Jinro is on stream right now with mmm+hellions. Winning vs Masters Korean tosses. Shit my fucking internet died so I couldn't see it T_______T fml. Is he recording his games? On March 13 2012 13:36 FinestHour wrote: Speak of the devil, MKP just won with a match with reactor hellions against CreatorPrime. There you go Damn can I see the game somewhere O_O? On March 13 2012 14:51 OrangeSoda wrote: Does goody still do mech vs P? im sure he makes helions vs p. I read or heard somewhere he stopped going mech vs Protoss. And mech games is not what I'm looking for :/ I need standard MMMGV composition games but with Hellions. | ||
Recognizable
Netherlands1552 Posts
On March 13 2012 06:58 beetlelisk wrote: Yeah but when you engage you kite stuff anyways so why not add Hellions to your mix? There are also times when Vikings kill all of the Colossi and Protoss switches to pure HTs for some time. Its easy to sacrifice the hellions for the supply after they get their shit done, not every game is a slugfest with no engagements until 200 supply. Protoss wants to have his zeals in front, so what that Hellions lose to Stalkers if Stalkers lose really badly to bio? What's more there is always gonna be some small hole where zeals will leak to engage and die 1 by 1 which is also good for terran. You get my thanks ^^ I don't know what I can give you, beer is for 50-90 cents in Poland. We played a game but sadly my offracing is bad (I'm a Z user) so I lost and later he decided to be a stubborn faggot and just kill me instead of letting me show him how much zeals I can kill with Hellions. BTW YABOT is something about unit testing right? Go try it yourself, hellions are useless. 2 marines>>>>>>>>1 hellion. Hellions get raped by everything, especially chargelots. It is logic like this that prevents people from innovation. Don't ever say anything is useless or bad just because people don't use it, I mean I remember when people didn't use motherships at all and now they are the ultimate end game in PvZ/PvP. I guess something similar would be how terrans never went ghost against zerg until a few months ago, but that ended up getting nerfed T_T. It is logic like this that assumes it hasn't been tried already by Terrans. I know I have, and whilst it is effective in a way, marines/marauders are just better. THe problem is in a straight up fight when you can't kite, hellions are practically useless, they are also too flimsy and take too much damage during kiting. | ||
beetlelisk
Poland2276 Posts
On March 14 2012 00:15 Recognizable wrote: Go try it yourself, hellions are useless. 2 marines>>>>>>>>1 hellion. Hellions get raped by everything, especially chargelots. It is logic like this that assumes it hasn't been tried already by Terrans. I know I have, and whilst it is effective in a way, marines/marauders are just better. THe problem is in a straight up fight when you can't kite, hellions are practically useless, they are also too flimsy and take too much damage during kiting. LOL I did try it myslef and Hellions absolutely rape chargelots in much fewer numbers. I don't understand where are people who don't want to kite coming from. You are doing Protoss a favor and not kiteing with your bio too? What's up with that logic? 2 people that posted before you just said they saw what I'm talking about on a pro streams and Terrans WON. This means it hasn't been tried until now. Metagame baby, blindly do the strats with no second thought. Hellions don't take ANY damage during kiteing. edit: correction: charging zeals can lay exactly one hit on escaping hellions. I just tried 86 3/3/3 zeals vs 26 0/0 blue flame hellions and 1 zeal survived. This means Hellions easily kill Zealots in 1 to 3 ratio. | ||
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