|
I am posting here because I don't really know where else to post. I am completely ignorqnt when it comes to Islam but I feel so bad for a friend of mine who is almost at the point she wants to commit suicide because of her Muslim traditions, that I don't think are true.
BACKGROUND
I live in Canada and a classmate of mine who is 21 and her family is from Afghanistan. She does not wear any of the traditionally Muslim clothing because her father did not want her to be picked up, but they strongly follow the rest of their religous teachings apparently.
She does not go out in public unless with her brother with the exception of school and he drives her there and picks her up the moment her classes end. She is not allowed to spend any extra time outside of her house than what her class time permits. She is not allowed to use the phone, have Facebook or ever post pictures of herself online. They are pretty strict to say the least, she is not allowed to talk to any boys, I had her brother threaten to kill me when she waved said hello once leaving school. Her father tried to arrange a marriage for her last year, that she tried to say no to and he kind of stalked her. Followed her around at school and eventually she told him off saying she would never marry him and he beat the shit out of her at school. She tried to press charges but her family basically forced her not to ghrough threat if violence and disowning her.
She is completely depressed has no real friends basically has no social life, has a Facebook with a fake name but is terrified that her family will find out. She is so torn her sister and mother is so important to her, but she hates her father and brothers and is terrified of them if she ever tried to defy them. Even her mother and sister told her they would disown her if they did not follow their traditions.
She posts on facebook all the time about how depressed she is and that's all she really talks about at school. I just want to be like what the fuck is wrong with you, its entirely within your rights to refuse any marriage, date who you want to date, go out in public, without the fear of being abused and disowned at home.
She seems to think that she has absolutely no choice she has to do what her father says, and I really doubt that.
Can a Muslim woman marry who ever she wants ( I am assuming they would also have to be Muslim)?
Can a Muslim woman refuse a marriage?
 
|
|
|
a "muslim" woman can do what any other woman can do too, it just depends on whom she wants to keep calling her muslim.
Your situation really sounds like you should talk to some professionals that actually might be able to talk to her parents. Do you have some kind of counselor at school? Talk to him/her and let him/her get a better opinion on the situation than anyone here is going to be able to give you. Knowing only your side of the story doesn't really help for offering objective advice, so you should talk to someone who can get an own impression of the situation, even better if it's someone professional / trained.
|
It's really more of a family thing than a religion thing. Many muslim families are much different and have different practices. Its less "muslims are shitheads" and more "this guy is a shithead".
source= pakistani roommates.
|
I doubt even if she could find counseling, unless it was anither Muslim woman she would say no, because she would be tioafraid if reprisal
|
This sounds really serious. If she's constantly talking about how depressed she is, that seems like a red flag to me indicating that she's going to continue to deteriorate mentally until something really bad happens at home or she tries to commit suicide.
I guess only you can know how serious it all seems by talking with her, but if you're her friend (not sure what your relationship is) I think it might be good to talk to some sort of counsellor or even police to see what the options are on her behalf, whether there's anywhere she can go to live with different people. I mean does she need help? Is she reaching out to anyone?
Like others have said this isn't an issue with religion. And even so it doesn't trump human rights in Canada. You can't threaten people with violence to live the way you want them to...I'm sure there must be people she or you can contact about domestic abuse (if you want to help her, which it seems like you do). I always thought there was a "child help" hot line for kids, maybe there's some equivalent for adults?
|
|
|
Interesting blog post with the Shafia case in the news right now. You don't mention why you are asking your questions, but I don't think you are going to make any headway against the entrenched culture by making religious arguments. The family believes what they believe... your friend has to choose between living in fear, and leaving her family for good.
If it was someone I cared about, I would tell them to change their name and move to a different city.
|
From your description it sounds as if she'll need to stop all contact with her family. There really isn't much you can do.
|
On January 28 2012 10:45 ZAiNs wrote:
Culture =/= Religion
I think this is not applicable in Islam. I am not Islam and all I know about Islam I got from 2 history classes and from books.
It is one religion where religion is integral and embedded in culture. Even most of Islamic cultural virtues are direct effects of religion.
I may be wrong, so please if someone knows better confirm or correct me
|
On January 28 2012 11:44 Keyboard Warrior wrote:I think this is not applicable in Islam. I am not Islam and all I know about Islam I got from 2 history classes and from books. It is one religion where religion is integral and embedded in culture. Even most of Islamic cultural virtues are direct effects of religion. I may be wrong, so please if someone knows better confirm or correct me
It simply isn't applicable in its present form. It's an idiotic statement.
|
Gnosis, what do you mean not applicable? Muslim culture is defined mostly by their religion,
that's why I replied that Culture =/= Religion is not applicable in Islam. In Catholics yes because while Religion plays a role in culture, human history developed and acquired much much more in culture outside religion.
And please tl, can we drop the "idiotic" "retard" "stupid" comments. As far as I understand, we are here to discuss, not to insult and be petty.
|
In most of the third world countries the extremist scholars are teaching this to the poor and uneducated mass so they can remain in the top of hierarchy. It kind of saddens me what these horrible extremists lure people into believing and which consequences they've brought upon the world.
|
On January 28 2012 11:44 Keyboard Warrior wrote:I think this is not applicable in Islam. I am not Islam and all I know about Islam I got from 2 history classes and from books. It is one religion where religion is integral and embedded in culture. Even most of Islamic cultural virtues are direct effects of religion. I may be wrong, so please if someone knows better confirm or correct me
The problem is, so many people think that the culture is part of the religion. Rather the religion is part of the culture.
What is going on here is simply the parents being extremely strict. It has nothing to do with the religion at all. Its simply the culture. The culture of the middle east is largely influenced by Islam, correct. But parts of the culture have nothing to do with Islam at all.
We see many western muslims (Irshad Manji) be complete opposite of what is considered "muslim," conduct. yet she still is a Muslim and she lives her life like any other. Many muslims follow Islam and do not carry these same practices. Now if the Koran said anything specfic about what is going on here. That would be a different story, but from what I've studied of the Koran, their is nothing like what is going on here in the Koran.
|
On January 28 2012 11:47 Gnosis wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2012 11:44 Keyboard Warrior wrote:On January 28 2012 10:45 ZAiNs wrote:
Culture =/= Religion I think this is not applicable in Islam. I am not Islam and all I know about Islam I got from 2 history classes and from books. It is one religion where religion is integral and embedded in culture. Even most of Islamic cultural virtues are direct effects of religion. I may be wrong, so please if someone knows better confirm or correct me It simply isn't applicable in its present form. It's an idiotic statement.
Do it the French way. We are the best country in terms of multicultural unity! And yes, Islam religion = culture. My muslim friends directly behave according to how religion taught them.
|
On January 28 2012 11:54 Keyboard Warrior wrote:
Gnosis, what do you mean not applicable? Muslim culture is defined mostly by their religion,
that's why I replied that Culture =/= Religion is not applicable in Islam. In Catholics yes because while Religion plays a role in culture, human history developed and acquired much much more in culture outside religion.
And please tl, can we drop the "idiotic" "retard" "stupid" comments. As far as I understand, we are here to discuss, not to insult and be petty.
I mean it's too broad a statement to mean anything -- masterbreti brings up one good reason why this is so (does religion affect culture, or vice-versa? Probably both). I was agreeing with you, by the way, so don't get ahead of yourself. Also don't worry about my use of "idiotic": I was describing the statement, not the person.
|
Also just to add.
Yes a muslim woman can marry whoever she wants, even a non-Muslim (though some may frown upon it). Arranged marriges are not part of Islam in any way shape or form. Whoever is telling you that is flat out wrong.
|
On January 28 2012 11:59 masterbreti wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2012 11:44 Keyboard Warrior wrote:On January 28 2012 10:45 ZAiNs wrote:
Culture =/= Religion I think this is not applicable in Islam. I am not Islam and all I know about Islam I got from 2 history classes and from books. It is one religion where religion is integral and embedded in culture. Even most of Islamic cultural virtues are direct effects of religion. I may be wrong, so please if someone knows better confirm or correct me The problem is, so many people think that the culture is part of the religion. Rather the religion is part of the culture. What is going on here is simply the parents being extremely strict. It has nothing to do with the religion at all. Its simply the culture. The culture of the middle east is largely influenced by Islam, correct. But parts of the culture have nothing to do with Islam at all. We see many western muslims (Irshad Manji) be complete opposite of what is considered "muslim," conduct. yet she still is a Muslim and she lives her life like any other. Many muslims follow Islam and do not carry these same practices. Now if the Koran said anything specfic about what is going on here. That would be a different story, but from what I've studied of the Koran, their is nothing like what is going on here in the Koran. This hits the nail on the head. In this context, you can't really generalize about Islam like it's a single religion.
BTW, to the OP: you should assume that your friend's family will eventually find out about her facebook account. Secrets rarely last forever. For example, maybe you should create a fake account under a woman's name.
|
On January 28 2012 12:04 Gnosis wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2012 11:54 Keyboard Warrior wrote:
Gnosis, what do you mean not applicable? Muslim culture is defined mostly by their religion,
that's why I replied that Culture =/= Religion is not applicable in Islam. In Catholics yes because while Religion plays a role in culture, human history developed and acquired much much more in culture outside religion.
And please tl, can we drop the "idiotic" "retard" "stupid" comments. As far as I understand, we are here to discuss, not to insult and be petty. I mean it's too broad a statement to mean anything -- masterbreti brings up one good reason why this is so (does religion affect culture, or vice-versa? Probably both). I was agreeing with you, by the way, so don't get ahead of yourself. Also don't worry about my use of "idiotic": I was describing the statement, not the person.
You are wrong. Let us first define = not as a mathematical 1:1 correspondence but in a social way that one thing is a product of and bleeds to the other. In this case, in Islam, religion is in fact culture. there may be certain cultural trains among muslims that are outside the scope of religion, but in general terms, much of what defines islamic culture is its religion.
EDIT: By the way, my statement is limited to, I term loosely, "original" arabic islam. There might be asian islams, european islams, but I am not so sure how about the culture-religion dynamics in them.
|
On January 28 2012 12:12 Keyboard Warrior wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2012 12:04 Gnosis wrote:On January 28 2012 11:54 Keyboard Warrior wrote:
Gnosis, what do you mean not applicable? Muslim culture is defined mostly by their religion,
that's why I replied that Culture =/= Religion is not applicable in Islam. In Catholics yes because while Religion plays a role in culture, human history developed and acquired much much more in culture outside religion.
And please tl, can we drop the "idiotic" "retard" "stupid" comments. As far as I understand, we are here to discuss, not to insult and be petty. I mean it's too broad a statement to mean anything -- masterbreti brings up one good reason why this is so (does religion affect culture, or vice-versa? Probably both). I was agreeing with you, by the way, so don't get ahead of yourself. Also don't worry about my use of "idiotic": I was describing the statement, not the person. You are wrong. Let us first define = not as a mathematical 1:1 correspondence but in a social way that one thing is a product of and bleeds to the other. In this case, in Islam, religion is in fact culture. there may be certain cultural trains among muslims that are outside the scope of religion, but in general terms, much of what defines islamic culture is its religion. I think what people are trying to tell you is, you can't really talk about "islamic culture" as if it's one thing.
Edit: OK, with the edit I have no problem with what you are saying... there's no doubt that a heavily religious culture uses religious concepts to justify itself. Why it's not useful in this context, is that you can't make religious arguments to someone in a religious culture unless you already belong to the in group. An Afghani muslim doesn't give a damn what a North American muslim thinks about something. So in this case, the specific culture is more significant than the religion involved.
By the way, there are lots of different viewpoints and beliefs, even within Sunnism, the largest branch of Islam.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
