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On December 03 2011 19:27 sermokala wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2011 19:09 FractalsOnFire wrote:On December 03 2011 16:03 Luepert wrote:
Guys who are complaining that he isn't praying for unfortunate people, hes praying for you.
Think about it this way: If God doesn't exist, nothing happens.
If God does exist(which you can't disprove), he might help you because a stranger prayed for your ungrateful ass.
Mathematically there is a chance of positive Divine intervention in your life and no chance of negative.
Thank you for praying for TL.
What happens if someone prays for a negative outcome? Who are we to claim how god thinks? He could create a tragic event 'for the greater good'. Who knows. To say that there is no possibility of a negative outcome is foolish. Plus people believe in the devil and that he too, is able to influence the world around us. Also i don't agree with the 'respecting' of his beliefs. Though i don't respect it, i certainly have to tolerate it. Religion hasn't done anything to earn my respect. How about the red cross and the salvation army? Not to mention the clear difference in the effectiveness between faith based organizations and non faith based organizations for things like helping kids in Africa. I mean name an organization that actually gives a shit about poor people that isn't faith based?
I really don't like getting into religious discussions, they're pointless and lead nowhere. Waste of time. But there are plenty of secular charity organisations that do plenty of good work without letting petty religious beliefs get in the way (such as condom use).
Médecins Sans Frontières (Doctors without Borders but the french name is so much cooler)
Oxfam International
Amnesty International
Red Cross (Yes its secular)
Engineers Without Borders
These are the ones off the top of my head. There are more, look around. But these are probably the biggest ones.
On December 03 2011 19:27 sermokala wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2011 19:09 FractalsOnFire wrote:On December 03 2011 16:03 Luepert wrote:
Guys who are complaining that he isn't praying for unfortunate people, hes praying for you.
Think about it this way: If God doesn't exist, nothing happens.
If God does exist(which you can't disprove), he might help you because a stranger prayed for your ungrateful ass.
Mathematically there is a chance of positive Divine intervention in your life and no chance of negative.
Thank you for praying for TL.
What happens if someone prays for a negative outcome? Who are we to claim how god thinks? He could create a tragic event 'for the greater good'. Who knows. To say that there is no possibility of a negative outcome is foolish. Plus people believe in the devil and that he too, is able to influence the world around us. Also i don't agree with the 'respecting' of his beliefs. Though i don't respect it, i certainly have to tolerate it. Religion hasn't done anything to earn my respect. How about the red cross and the salvation army? Not to mention the clear difference in the effectiveness between faith based organizations and non faith based organizations for things like helping kids in Africa.
Also where's your evidence that faith based organisations are more effective (in what way?) than secular based organisations? That's an easy accusation to just throw out, but i'd actually like to see a proper study into the efficacy of each organisation.
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On December 03 2011 10:57 swanized wrote:
"Oh god someone is trying to be nice and help by doing something I believe is absolutely useless,time to attack his beliefs and let him know how ignorant he is being in my opinion"
gosh...
Seriously... why are people arguing about religion in this thread blog.
...
I'm agnostic (not that it matters) but if you could, please pray for people that take time out of their day to troll and fight in your harmless blog, and countless others like it.
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Yeah...I'm with some of the others on the whole prayer really doesn't do anything. It's just thinking about something for someone. But it's a nice sentiment. Definitely doesn't do harm! =D
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On December 03 2011 09:10 mrafaeldie12 wrote:
I'm sorry, but why don't you pray for/help the 1.7 billion people living in morbid poverty?I think they're in dire need of help.
why are you posting on starcraft forum when people are starving to DEATH in africa right now?
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On December 04 2011 10:56 -_- wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2011 09:10 mrafaeldie12 wrote:
I'm sorry, but why don't you pray for/help the 1.7 billion people living in morbid poverty?I think they're in dire need of help. why are you posting on starcraft forum when people are starving to DEATH in africa right now?
A reward for all the time and money he puts into charity and actually helping people. Also he asking why the op isn't asking for something more meaningful from an omnipotent being.
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On December 04 2011 11:41 Couvre wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2011 10:56 -_- wrote:On December 03 2011 09:10 mrafaeldie12 wrote:
I'm sorry, but why don't you pray for/help the 1.7 billion people living in morbid poverty?I think they're in dire need of help. why are you posting on starcraft forum when people are starving to DEATH in africa right now? A reward for all the time and money he puts into charity and actually helping people. Also he asking why the op isn't asking for something more meaningful from an omnipotent being.
He's suggesting that the OP should spend his time praying for more important things. I'm asking him why he doesn't spend his time doing more important things. Pretty fair question IMO.
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On December 03 2011 11:07 Golden Ghost wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2011 10:05 Couvre wrote:On December 03 2011 09:30 Golden Ghost wrote:
if you don't believe in prayer why should you care if somebody prays for you, and if you do, knowing somebody prays for you can help you just the tiniest bit, even if the prayer in itself doesn't do anything I care because his statement, "I believe in God, that what I ask him, if it is according to His will, will happen," is justification for ignoring all problems. Maybe you haven't experienced the horrible consequence of such a belief yet. You are absolutely right if you say that a prayer alone won't fix a problem. However some people get strength out of them and that in combination with an appropriate action can help for some people. That's also why I said a prayer on it's own can't do any harm. It's the lack of action to follow up with your prayer that does the harm. God won't fix your problem for you. He can help with giving you strength. A prayer on it's own always reminds me of this joke: A man is sitting on the roof of his house after the whole area is flooded. A man in a rowboat is coming past and shouts at him: Come down. I'll get you to safety. No says the man on the roof. God will help me. Next some guys on a raft come by: Come down. We'll get you to safety. I appreciate the offer but God will help me. Then an helicopter flies by: Climb on up. We'll get you to safety! No thank you. God will save me. Finally the man on the roof dies from exhaustion and arrives in the heaven. He goes to God and asks him: I have always been a good Catholic. Why didn't you sent help? God answers: I sent you a rowboat, a raft and an helicopter. What more do you want from me? The moral of the story is: A prayer is a nice thing but without action from yourself it won't save you. You have to put in the effort to reach your goals. God can only assist.
Eh, I disagree with your statement and agree..sort of.. lol
Let me elaborate. I feel that what you said about having prayer help strengthen you is huge and people definitely shouldn't think of prayer as you praying and a bearded man in the sky snaps his fingers and grants his wishes. God isn't a genie in a lamp. But the part I disagree with is that you HAVE to pray for strength. Alot of things are out of our control however everything is in God's. I use the example in scripture where the Bible talks about how (I think it was)Paul was in jail and his family prayed and prayed for things to go well and eventually Paul was let out of the prison. When he came and visited his family they were surprised that he had gotten out. The moral to THIS story is that God can do things on his on but you have to have faith.
Also, I am a Christian so don't flame me for my beliefs. We're entitled to our own beliefs so don't worry with mine if you plan on starting controversy. I don't have time for that kind of shit.
and thanks for the prayers bro, much appreciated <3
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On December 03 2011 19:09 FractalsOnFire wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2011 16:03 Luepert wrote:
Guys who are complaining that he isn't praying for unfortunate people, hes praying for you.
Think about it this way: If God doesn't exist, nothing happens.
If God does exist(which you can't disprove), he might help you because a stranger prayed for your ungrateful ass.
Mathematically there is a chance of positive Divine intervention in your life and no chance of negative.
Thank you for praying for TL.
What happens if someone prays for a negative outcome? Who are we to claim how god thinks? He could create a tragic event 'for the greater good'. Who knows. To say that there is no possibility of a negative outcome is foolish. Plus people believe in the devil and that he too, is able to influence the world around us. Also i don't agree with the 'respecting' of his beliefs. Though i don't respect it, i certainly have to tolerate it. Religion hasn't done anything to earn my respect.
If you honestly think this guy is praying for God's wrath on you or praying to Satan, you are very diluted.
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I'll think for you  .
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On December 04 2011 13:23 Luepert wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2011 19:09 FractalsOnFire wrote:On December 03 2011 16:03 Luepert wrote:
Guys who are complaining that he isn't praying for unfortunate people, hes praying for you.
Think about it this way: If God doesn't exist, nothing happens.
If God does exist(which you can't disprove), he might help you because a stranger prayed for your ungrateful ass.
Mathematically there is a chance of positive Divine intervention in your life and no chance of negative.
Thank you for praying for TL.
What happens if someone prays for a negative outcome? Who are we to claim how god thinks? He could create a tragic event 'for the greater good'. Who knows. To say that there is no possibility of a negative outcome is foolish. Plus people believe in the devil and that he too, is able to influence the world around us. Also i don't agree with the 'respecting' of his beliefs. Though i don't respect it, i certainly have to tolerate it. Religion hasn't done anything to earn my respect. If you honestly think this guy is praying for God's wrath on you or praying to Satan, you are very diluted.
* Deluded
I never said he was praying to satan or praying for god's wrath. Also if satan was able to corrupt people, why isn't god stopping him? But that is just digression and irrelevant.
Granted i misinterpreted your original statement, but I used the term 'negative outcome' which, depending on your perspective, even a seemingly harmless prayer may have negative consequences. Lets say one person from TL asked him to pray for his mother. His mother is dying and requires an heart donation to survive, someone is praying for her swift recovery and god decides to answer. Now there are two possibilities that could occur to help her recover, miraculous recovery or an actual organ donation. Miraculous recovery is very rare and highly unlikely to occur, all things considered. The more likely outcome is to receive a heart through the death of another. So does god let someone else die to save your mother? This is of course assuming she's even at the top of the waiting list (unless someone close dies whos family then gives you the heart) which means you could be waiting for a few years. Yes your mother is saved, but at what cost? Do the ends justify the means? Is there a 'net effect of good'?
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I'm agnostic but bashing religious people is no different than racism IMO. You're not supposed to discriminate based on rac sex or religion but it seems people do on religion which is sad. Anyways I support this OP believing is half the battle.
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On December 04 2011 16:21 FractalsOnFire wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2011 13:23 Luepert wrote:On December 03 2011 19:09 FractalsOnFire wrote:On December 03 2011 16:03 Luepert wrote:
Guys who are complaining that he isn't praying for unfortunate people, hes praying for you.
Think about it this way: If God doesn't exist, nothing happens.
If God does exist(which you can't disprove), he might help you because a stranger prayed for your ungrateful ass.
Mathematically there is a chance of positive Divine intervention in your life and no chance of negative.
Thank you for praying for TL.
What happens if someone prays for a negative outcome? Who are we to claim how god thinks? He could create a tragic event 'for the greater good'. Who knows. To say that there is no possibility of a negative outcome is foolish. Plus people believe in the devil and that he too, is able to influence the world around us. Also i don't agree with the 'respecting' of his beliefs. Though i don't respect it, i certainly have to tolerate it. Religion hasn't done anything to earn my respect. If you honestly think this guy is praying for God's wrath on you or praying to Satan, you are very diluted. * Deluded I never said he was praying to satan or praying for god's wrath. Also if satan was able to corrupt people, why isn't god stopping him? But that is just digression and irrelevant. Granted i misinterpreted your original statement, but I used the term 'negative outcome' which, depending on your perspective, even a seemingly harmless prayer may have negative consequences. Lets say one person from TL asked him to pray for his mother. His mother is dying and requires an heart donation to survive, someone is praying for her swift recovery and god decides to answer. Now there are two possibilities that could occur to help her recover, miraculous recovery or an actual organ donation. Miraculous recovery is very rare and highly unlikely to occur, all things considered. The more likely outcome is to receive a heart through the death of another. So does god let someone else die to save your mother? This is of course assuming she's even at the top of the waiting list (unless someone close dies whos family then gives you the heart) which means you could be waiting for a few years. Yes your mother is saved, but at what cost? Do the ends justify the means? Is there a 'net effect of good'?
Hey man, what do you do in your free time, drive from church to church arguing with pastors on how they're wrong about their God?
There's a time and a place for discussing religion/theology. The OP isn't asking you to shake his faith with philosophical jibberjabber. As misguided as you think his good intentions are, YOUR good intentions on bringing up these arguments is even more misguided. If you want to argue these things, there are plenty of other places you can go. Show some courtesy for your fellow man, regardless of his religious beliefs.
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Hey man, cool thread!
Just got home from a great youth camp, so can you pray that all of us hold onto the encouraging talks instead of letting last weekend be just an emotional high, and always seek to serve God in more ways. Thanks!
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On December 04 2011 20:53 Newbistic wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2011 16:21 FractalsOnFire wrote:On December 04 2011 13:23 Luepert wrote:On December 03 2011 19:09 FractalsOnFire wrote:On December 03 2011 16:03 Luepert wrote:
Guys who are complaining that he isn't praying for unfortunate people, hes praying for you.
Think about it this way: If God doesn't exist, nothing happens.
If God does exist(which you can't disprove), he might help you because a stranger prayed for your ungrateful ass.
Mathematically there is a chance of positive Divine intervention in your life and no chance of negative.
Thank you for praying for TL.
What happens if someone prays for a negative outcome? Who are we to claim how god thinks? He could create a tragic event 'for the greater good'. Who knows. To say that there is no possibility of a negative outcome is foolish. Plus people believe in the devil and that he too, is able to influence the world around us. Also i don't agree with the 'respecting' of his beliefs. Though i don't respect it, i certainly have to tolerate it. Religion hasn't done anything to earn my respect. If you honestly think this guy is praying for God's wrath on you or praying to Satan, you are very diluted. * Deluded I never said he was praying to satan or praying for god's wrath. Also if satan was able to corrupt people, why isn't god stopping him? But that is just digression and irrelevant. Granted i misinterpreted your original statement, but I used the term 'negative outcome' which, depending on your perspective, even a seemingly harmless prayer may have negative consequences. Lets say one person from TL asked him to pray for his mother. His mother is dying and requires an heart donation to survive, someone is praying for her swift recovery and god decides to answer. Now there are two possibilities that could occur to help her recover, miraculous recovery or an actual organ donation. Miraculous recovery is very rare and highly unlikely to occur, all things considered. The more likely outcome is to receive a heart through the death of another. So does god let someone else die to save your mother? This is of course assuming she's even at the top of the waiting list (unless someone close dies whos family then gives you the heart) which means you could be waiting for a few years. Yes your mother is saved, but at what cost? Do the ends justify the means? Is there a 'net effect of good'? Hey man, what do you do in your free time, drive from church to church arguing with pastors on how they're wrong about their God?
Ad hominem attack that's irrelevant but i'll bite anyway. It would be pointless and useless for me to go around and actually argue with them. Their cognitive biases would remove any chance i had of convincing them otherwise. Also I don't know if they're right or wrong about their god but i'm certainly pointing out potential pitfalls and contradictions.
On December 04 2011 20:53 Newbistic wrote:
There's a time and a place for discussing religion/theology. The OP isn't asking you to shake his faith with philosophical jibberjabber. As misguided as you think his good intentions are, YOUR good intentions on bringing up these arguments is even more misguided. If you want to argue these things, there are plenty of other places you can go. Show some courtesy for your fellow man, regardless of his religious beliefs.
By the way i was never actually attacking the OP. I couldn't care less whether he thinks his prayer is useful. I was arguing with Luepert on the fact that he claimed there is only a positive outcome from prayer and no negative outcome, right here:
On December 03 2011 16:03 Luepert wrote:
Mathematically there is a chance of positive Divine intervention in your life and no chance of negative.
Also why do you think i'm being malicious or rude? I'm merely pointing out a scenario/example to support my argument. My earlier statement regarding god and satan, as you put it 'philosophical jibberjabber', is me actually trying to get an explanation about a contradiction i see in his/her religion.
All i am doing here is saying that actions have consequences, and to claim that there is no possible negative outcome from prayer is wishful thinking at best. This is assuming of course prayer actually works.
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On December 04 2011 12:53 -_- wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2011 11:41 Couvre wrote:On December 04 2011 10:56 -_- wrote:On December 03 2011 09:10 mrafaeldie12 wrote:
I'm sorry, but why don't you pray for/help the 1.7 billion people living in morbid poverty?I think they're in dire need of help. why are you posting on starcraft forum when people are starving to DEATH in africa right now? A reward for all the time and money he puts into charity and actually helping people. Also he asking why the op isn't asking for something more meaningful from an omnipotent being. He's suggesting that the OP should spend his time praying for more important things. I'm asking him why he doesn't spend his time doing more important things. Pretty fair question IMO.
If he can spend a portion of his time convincing others that volunteer work is worth more than praying, he accomplishes more. Let's say he only convinces one person that this is true. We now have his total potential time of volunteering minus the 45 seconds it took him to make his post + the potential volunteer time of the person he convinces.
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Religion threads on TL always end up entertaining. ( or closed )
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I want to give back by praying for any prayer requests that some of you guys might have.
It can be anything that is on your heart that you are worried about, anything at all.
People regularly express their thoughts and concerns in their blogs, maybe that can give you some ideas.
"Dear Lord, please help "LaserZerg" hit platinum. He is going through tough times as he has quit school to become a pro. Also, make that cute Korean cashier notice him. Amen. "
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5/5 best blog I've read in a while.
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On December 05 2011 01:43 Couvre wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2011 12:53 -_- wrote:On December 04 2011 11:41 Couvre wrote:On December 04 2011 10:56 -_- wrote:On December 03 2011 09:10 mrafaeldie12 wrote:
I'm sorry, but why don't you pray for/help the 1.7 billion people living in morbid poverty?I think they're in dire need of help. why are you posting on starcraft forum when people are starving to DEATH in africa right now? A reward for all the time and money he puts into charity and actually helping people. Also he asking why the op isn't asking for something more meaningful from an omnipotent being. He's suggesting that the OP should spend his time praying for more important things. I'm asking him why he doesn't spend his time doing more important things. Pretty fair question IMO. If he can spend a portion of his time convincing others that volunteer work is worth more than praying, he accomplishes more. Let's say he only convinces one person that this is true. We now have his total potential time of volunteering minus the 45 seconds it took him to make his post + the potential volunteer time of the person he convinces.
no, im not talking about this post. im talking about all his other posts. and his time playing starcraft and watching tv.
plus, as a separate matter, i doubt he's ever convinced someone that prayer isn't worthwhile. so that's a total, total waste.
poor kids in africa dying because he's not using his time well 
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EPT
