Moletrap, frankly, gets too much shit for reasons that are unbeknownst to me. I'll admit, he's not the most analytical caster, but that's not a thing even half of all casters are good at, and his shoutcasting is on a decent level. His banter in between games isn't the best, but what the hell? Do people actually watch GSL for the BREAKS and talks that have nothing to do with Starcraft 2 at all?
When I watch Moletrap on GSL, I feel like he is, bar none, the guy who works hardest to do his best at the job I'm watching him do right then and there, and that's casting the GSL. He's always aware of the results and records, keeps track of the player's momentum, and hey, gives us stories once in a while about the players and how they were feeling leading up to the match because he talks to them and gets to know them (case and point how Bomber felt against JYP). Even when I watch Artosis and Tasteless I feel there's a distance between them and most of the GSL players, and despite Artosis's huge mancrush on Clide and Nestea, they are hardly the best of friends.
Now I know what some of you will say, that there's a language barrier and yes, of course I understand that, and this example was not meant to bash Artosis and Tasteless, but to rather praise Moletrap for doing things that aren't required of him, and that's to get to know the players outside the booth. He's also very aware of what these guys did pre-SC2, and information like that is not only interesting, but hard to come by for the average viewer.
He's very dedicated to the GSL, and his priorities are above all else, the GSL. Here's a guy who will look up a bunch of stats, write them down, and prepare talking points before the players even play, and that sort of professionalism is something I can get behind.
I'm generally pretty neutral towards Moletrap, he isn't an exemplary caster but he isn't terrible either. You are right though, I've never thought about the other things he does. Moletrap is actually pretty great because of the things you have said.
haha, the first thing that popped to my mind when I saw "I like Mole...", was "I like Molesting". Not sure if that says more about me or about my expectations for the Internet o_O
On topic, though, I have to agree (even though I like Tastosis best) that the hard work and research is admirable!
He actually has very very very little knowledge about high level sc2. For instance, yesterday in G2 of losira vs alicia, losira had a ton of roaches with burrow, and alicia had an army with like 30 stalkers + 5 immortals and no obs. Moletrap got super excited and talked for a few minutes about how losira should just burrow under that army and win the game (meanwhile alicia is sitting right near cannons to avoid this). This is just one example i noticed recently. I'm sure theres many more that are even worse
I like Moletrap the best out of the code A casters. Khaldor is really good too. I don't Doa and Wolf because they analyze the game when they don't know shit. Doa isn't as bad as Wolf though
On November 30 2011 19:00 marttorn wrote: These damn kids running around flaming moletrap, need to learn some respect for a proper veteran of Starcraft!
I should clarify; he didn't know much about the actual game of BW and never seemed to care about that.
The reason I really can't stand Moletrap, is his voice. It has to be one of the most annoying things I've heard. It is quite unfortunate that it's something that can't be changed at all. I'll have to try appreciating him for some of the things you've mentioned though.
I cannot do anything but think Moletrap is awesome tbh. Too many times have I watched his casts from BW. People seem to hate on him for no particular reason these days.
I just dislike people who talk over other people and try to impose themselves over their cocaster because they seemingly feel threatened all the time. Moletrap is getting better at it now, vibing more with his partners though. This is also the reason I dislike catspajamas as well.
On November 30 2011 19:08 Zidane wrote: I just dislike people who talk over other people and try to impose themselves over their cocaster because they seemingly feel threatened all the time. Moletrap is getting better at it now, vibing more with his partners though. This is also the reason I dislike catspajamas as well.
This has been my issue with him as also... I do think that he has much better chemistry with khaldor than any other caster and this is becoming less of a problem.
On November 30 2011 19:08 Zidane wrote: I just dislike people who talk over other people and try to impose themselves over their cocaster because they seemingly feel threatened all the time. Moletrap is getting better at it now, vibing more with his partners though. This is also the reason I dislike catspajamas as well.
Thank you for starting this thread, I've always wanted to see what would happen if someone took a real look at how Moletrap does as a caster in the GSL. As annoying as Moletrap may have been at the start of his GSL gig, what's more annoying to me is the amount of crap people say about him on the GSL comments and elsewhere. Most of it is just this undeserved wave of hate that a lot of kids have to throw out on the internet from time to time, and he's just the convenient target. I've come to respect Moletrap a lot because A.) He has definitely improved as a caster since I started seeing him on GSL, and B.) the fact that he's put up with all of the hate and not given up shows strong dedication to the e-sports community. I hadn't previously considered his ability to always have the facts about each player in every game, but now that you mention it you're absolutely right. So all in all, props to Moletrap, and @Itsmedudeman - thanks for a good positive post.
I think moletrap/english casters in general could benefit from a more "professional" style of broadcasting, more akin to what I've heard the koreans have with more or less "roles" to play--an overall MC, a statistician/player analysis, and then the in-game interpreter who more understands the game. You can tell thats the way OGN/MBC commentators act: a bit more formal, a bit more crisp than the more casual english caster type. For all the years I've listened to korean commentary, I actually don't speak a word of korean so I don't know if this analysis is too correct, but tasteless and artosis have talked about it before. Granted a lot of the korean casters are former progamers, not all of them are super skilled in the game themselves (this can be analogous to coaches, who are not all good players but still can understand the game). The english speaking community is expecting all casters to be skilled in all fields--following every detail of the scene while also playing a ton while also being very good, etc etc.
I got into pro bw via finding english commentaries on youtube, and watched most of moletrap's commentaries back then. He never had fantastic knowledge of the game but you could tell he had the passion and did follow all the results of the scene (sometimes I feel tasteless in particular doesn't know anything about like B-teamers or "up-and-comers", which I feel is part of his job). Moletrap could benefit a lot of having the "statistician" role, as he's actually pretty good at that, just as tasteless could be a better MC than be a mix of trying to be expected for a full detailed knowledge of the up-and-coming players and such. Of course each role does all the roles, but people don't have the same expectations on it and you could get less haters.
On November 30 2011 18:54 unSpeake wrote: He actually has very very very little knowledge about high level sc2. For instance, yesterday in G2 of losira vs alicia, losira had a ton of roaches with burrow, and alicia had an army with like 30 stalkers + 5 immortals and no obs. Moletrap got super excited and talked for a few minutes about how losira should just burrow under that army and win the game (meanwhile alicia is sitting right near cannons to avoid this). This is just one example i noticed recently. I'm sure theres many more that are even worse
Classic example of why casters HAVE TO BE ex-top level players. And having an annoying voice + being the most socially awkward guy for the first 3 months of his casts have not endeared him to anyone. He's actually better in his BW casts when he knew something.
I agree that he seems to work the hardest of all the GSL casters. I have nothing bad to say about him or his casting, GOM made a great choice picking him up.
My $0.02: His tangents are too long and uninteresting when he should be talking about the game. Honestly, I think even Tastetosis are getting too comfortable talking about nonsense during a game, but Moletrap takes it to a new level of not talking about starcraft when there's important things happening.
Give me play-by-play, give me diamond level analysis, whatever, but when one player is four gating and about to attack and all you've talked about so far is how you used to sing in choir, you're doing it wrong.
On November 30 2011 18:54 unSpeake wrote: He actually has very very very little knowledge about high level sc2. For instance, yesterday in G2 of losira vs alicia, losira had a ton of roaches with burrow, and alicia had an army with like 30 stalkers + 5 immortals and no obs. Moletrap got super excited and talked for a few minutes about how losira should just burrow under that army and win the game (meanwhile alicia is sitting right near cannons to avoid this). This is just one example i noticed recently. I'm sure theres many more that are even worse
its true you are always going to get flack when you yourself play at a plat level. yes i get that not everyone can be GM but i can say from first hand exp before i was fast i was able to achieve masters at a low level of APM from just knowing WHAT to do.
as a pro caster i doubt he can delve into the details about what is REALLY going on in a game and while this is fine for a play by play caster i dont think roles are defined currently in the sc2 casting scene and so people expect you to be of a high KNOWLEDGE level of sc2 that he just does not have.
im sure hes a nice guy and he did BW stuff ages ago but if sc2 ever became super popular and i mean SUPER popular i firmly believe casters such as moletrap would wane and a newer more informed breed would take over.
On November 30 2011 22:40 SlimeBagly wrote: My $0.02: His tangents are too long and uninteresting when he should be talking about the game. Honestly, I think even Tastetosis are getting too comfortable talking about nonsense during a game, but Moletrap takes it to a new level of not talking about starcraft when there's important things happening.
On November 30 2011 18:59 happyness wrote: I like Moletrap the best out of the code A casters. Khaldor is really good too. I don't Doa and Wolf because they analyze the game when they don't know shit. Doa isn't as bad as Wolf though
What the hell do you mean by that? LOOOOOOOL doa isnt as bad as wolf? I like all the code A casters and here's how I would rank them on game knowledge: 1. Wolf 2. Khaldor/Doa 3. Moletrap
I like moletrap, but he makes quite a few blunders in his casting. He makes the wrong calls, he often misses important shit that's going on, and fails to keep track of whats going on in the production tab. In comparison to people like Doa and Khaldor who avoids talking about stuff they don't know, moletrap makes more mistakes.
However, I believe that the reason he makes more mistakes is because he's trying harder to become an analytical caster. If you just avoid making calls everytime you are unsure, how can you be a good self-sufficient caster?
You must really not know shit about the game to think Wolf doesn't know shit. He has pretty good knowledge of PvX mathchups, and he's also a masters level player. I am not saying that's enough to know everything, but that's more than most of the casters.
there is also more to casting then knowing the game. do unattractive people become models?
totalbiscut prob knew/knows the least of ANY of the casters currently and this is simply because he was just a wow patch guy posting youtube stuff on mmo and what not. his voice and WAY of casting is IMPRESSIVE. incontrol mocks him and his little extras he adds in but thats the ability to speak and think quickly at the same time and he doesnt seem to have ANY mess ups in regards to speaking such as a small stutter here and there he doesnt say UM ER AHH HMMM he is a PERFECT caster not analyst. you combine someone like artosis with him and have artosis not make bias dumb jokes and all of the sudden its looking like ESPN professionally. we need this to make esports take the next step. you think the korean casters for BW get adults to watch the show because they make dumb jokes? no please if i want comedy ill go watch patton oswald or eugine mirman. some humor is fine but the game comes first followed closely by professionalism
in ALL honesty DOA and moletrap lack the VOICE required to be a caster. as does prob wolf and husky but they are super favs of a ton of people and currently this is ok. once the game gets going and stuff REALLY becomes serious there just isnt room for someone who speaks in monotone or just as bad a high pitched grating voice.
im being blunt but cmon lets just call a spade a spade
I've loved Moletrap since like 2008. Most SC2 fans are huge RTS noobies (to illustrate my point....see above poster's join date) and have no idea what people like Moletrap sacrificed for the love of the game.
On December 01 2011 01:05 Zorkmid wrote: I've loved Moletrap since like 2008. Most SC2 fans are huge RTS noobies (to illustrate my point....see above poster's join date) and have no idea what people like Moletrap sacrificed for the love of the game.
For someone who has "sacrificed for the love of the game", you'd think he could take the time to form a cogent point in reference to game development or mechanics or at least something meaningful while casting. Doa and Moletrap are flat out WRONG more often than right, and considering that the GSL is The premier Sc2 tournament in the world, the standard for casting ought to be more than "well he has given up so much!"
On December 01 2011 01:05 Zorkmid wrote: I've loved Moletrap since like 2008. Most SC2 fans are huge RTS noobies (to illustrate my point....see above poster's join date) and have no idea what people like Moletrap sacrificed for the love of the game.
i think a join date for a specific forum is a poor point to debate on. for example my roomate for 2 years was korean and he translated a ton of sc2 games for me as well as us playing together with the other koreans on the schools network for my entire stay there. i recently joined tl tho after being a lurker for a while
to the point. sacrifice doesnt not justify the goal. if you are not good at something no amount of effort or sacrifice or work matters if the end product isnt worth having. if it ends up being moletrap isnt a great caster "he isnt" then so be it. but he will be a bad caster for his casting and not what got him there or didnt.
On December 01 2011 01:05 Zorkmid wrote: I've loved Moletrap since like 2008. Most SC2 fans are huge RTS noobies (to illustrate my point....see above poster's join date) and have no idea what people like Moletrap sacrificed for the love of the game.
For someone who has "sacrificed for the love of the game", you'd think he could take the time to form a cogent point in reference to game development or mechanics or at least something meaningful while casting. Doa and Moletrap are flat out WRONG more often than right, and considering that the GSL is The premier Sc2 tournament in the world, the standard for casting ought to be more than "well he has given up so much!"
I should have been more specific. Moletrap has entertained me as a caster since 2008. He was HIRED by the premier SC2 tournament in the world, and he is deserving of that. The fact that he did so against tough odds is of little relevance to my enjoyment, and probably of little relevance to GOM.
On December 01 2011 01:05 Zorkmid wrote: I've loved Moletrap since like 2008. Most SC2 fans are huge RTS noobies (to illustrate my point....see above poster's join date) and have no idea what people like Moletrap sacrificed for the love of the game.
For someone who has "sacrificed for the love of the game", you'd think he could take the time to form a cogent point in reference to game development or mechanics or at least something meaningful while casting. Doa and Moletrap are flat out WRONG more often than right, and considering that the GSL is The premier Sc2 tournament in the world, the standard for casting ought to be more than "well he has given up so much!"
I should have been more specific. Moletrap has entertained me as a caster since 2008. He was HIRED by the premier SC2 tournament in the world, and he is deserving of that. The fact that he did so against tough odds is of little relevance to my enjoyment, and probably of little relevance to GOM.
i think this debate is more so a discussion of vision lack of vision and ideals and standards
idealistically a caster is way better then moletrap. in the current environment it appears that not many casters worth having are attempting to BE a caster or they are overshadowed by something. people like ORB who are actually much much much better then doa moletrap and even wolf are out there and even orb doesnt have what i would consider to be "it" for casting a PRO mind you PRO level game
my standards for pros are high. this isnt a made up standard it comes from playing sports my whole life and understanding the dif between myself who played ball in highschool and say a pro basketball player. its worlds of dif from HS to college and even more from that to the NBA. so the question is why is the standard for sc2 so low? is it because they dont pull in the salarys? is it because they dont pull in the crowds? is it that they are younger and sometimes even kids and so hard to take serious?
the answer is that it is all of these things and more. the community decides what is right. currently sc2 is a younger crowd. as such tasteless is allowed to make the immature jokes and moletraps rants are not so bad. now say you start getting adults in 20 years who were once kids and they watch sc2. do you think the same jokes and banter will keep them watching? if anything they would mute the volume and that will detract from the worth and eventually lead them away. the answer is rather odd. as of now moletrap is fine, but... he is not fine in the standards of which a caster should be held to as is tasteless artosis and virtually all the casters aside from husky and day9 who are rather more mature about things. all the casters except totalbiscut have poor speaking voices and have speaking problems such as stutter, saying uhm and uh, dead air time. those in the industry know what i speak of (tho i am not in the industry) and its not of a pro standard to which they cast for.
i simply ask you listen to the radio or watch tv and compare anything you see to that of a MLG cast with artosis and tastless. now compare the speaking habits of these casters. the answer is right in front of you but i think ppl are far too bias/in love with these iconic figures to be true to themselves or they just str8 lack vision
On November 30 2011 18:14 Itsmedudeman wrote:He's always aware of the results and records, keeps track of the player's momentum, and hey, gives us stories once in a while about the players and how they were feeling leading up to the match because he talks to them and gets to know them (case and point how Bomber felt against JYP).
This. Right here. He's the single most TLPD-using caster and he always has all kinds of ridiculous facts that nobody else does.
EPT
