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On November 26 2011 17:50 17Sphynx17 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2011 17:44 ABagOfFritos wrote:On November 26 2011 17:35 HeroUlyssess wrote:
As i understand it age of consent in Canada is 16 so i don't see any problems with this relationship at all. A four year gap between ages seems negligible and from my understanding is pretty common.
As an example i Know a couple who are separated by 6 years, the woman is now 20 and the man 26, they met when she was 18. I don't see how 18-24 is much different from 16-20 both women are still is high-school.
To the people saying that the girl is not fully developed mentally and physically, I must say, the Age of consent in Canada (and New Zealand for that matter, where i live) would certainly NOT be 16 and would rather be 18 or more. If the Government (which was voted in by the people) deems that it is fine for the two of them to have sex I don't see why it should be weird for them to have a relationship. Or would you all rather they just had some kind of one night stand?
I agree with some of the earlier statements saying that you should try and talk with her father Alone, without the girl. That seems like the best way to at least get the dad to tolerate you :S
Just my two cents.
Oh and this is based on the assumption that the Op is actually living in Canada currently. IF not... well ignore me, unless you happen to be in New Zealand. Yes I'm in Canada and yes your understanding of the age of consent here is correct. With all of these comparisons being made I forgot about one that I can mention as well. A friend of mine (she's my age) has been with her current boyfriend since she was 15, at which point he was 27. These relationships can and do work more often than some of you guys seem to realize. For clarification sake though, with regards to your female friend who was 15 at the time, did her parents also object? If yes, was it as actively as this one? Again, it at least gives you a view on how someone you know on what they went through or experienced, not just for your sake but also for the girl that you can also consider in terms of "weight"/"gravity" in her life. I talked to my ex's parents before in sort of confronting the issues they were worried about (although only the dad coz the mum never really wanted to talk to me). (also it wasn't an age issue but rather they wanted someone better for their daughter). The dad was at least accommodating to hear me out, but they still didn't change their mind although they knew/felt my heart was in the right place. Just know that it is still possible even after talking with the dad/parents that they still wouldn't change their mind at that point in time, although they will at least see your sincerity which gives them something to think about. Cheers!
I really couldn't tell you much about how things went for them, I haven't spoken to her in over a year and never knew much about the personal side of her relationship. If I somehow had a chance to talk to her I definitely would though. And as far as the chance that the parents might not sway is a chance I'm willing to take. I have nothing left to lose at this point.
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I would give up because you two are still young.
Much better than risking her future
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On November 26 2011 18:14 ETisME wrote:
I would give up because you two are still young.
Much better than risking her future
This is the most difficult option to consider. I'm absolutely crazy about this girl and extremely confident that she feels the same way. Simply giving up on something that never even had a chance to develop would crush me for sure, probably both of us.
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On November 26 2011 18:00 ABagOfFritos wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On November 26 2011 17:50 17Sphynx17 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2011 17:44 ABagOfFritos wrote:On November 26 2011 17:35 HeroUlyssess wrote:
As i understand it age of consent in Canada is 16 so i don't see any problems with this relationship at all. A four year gap between ages seems negligible and from my understanding is pretty common.
As an example i Know a couple who are separated by 6 years, the woman is now 20 and the man 26, they met when she was 18. I don't see how 18-24 is much different from 16-20 both women are still is high-school.
To the people saying that the girl is not fully developed mentally and physically, I must say, the Age of consent in Canada (and New Zealand for that matter, where i live) would certainly NOT be 16 and would rather be 18 or more. If the Government (which was voted in by the people) deems that it is fine for the two of them to have sex I don't see why it should be weird for them to have a relationship. Or would you all rather they just had some kind of one night stand?
I agree with some of the earlier statements saying that you should try and talk with her father Alone, without the girl. That seems like the best way to at least get the dad to tolerate you :S
Just my two cents.
Oh and this is based on the assumption that the Op is actually living in Canada currently. IF not... well ignore me, unless you happen to be in New Zealand. Yes I'm in Canada and yes your understanding of the age of consent here is correct. With all of these comparisons being made I forgot about one that I can mention as well. A friend of mine (she's my age) has been with her current boyfriend since she was 15, at which point he was 27. These relationships can and do work more often than some of you guys seem to realize. For clarification sake though, with regards to your female friend who was 15 at the time, did her parents also object? If yes, was it as actively as this one? Again, it at least gives you a view on how someone you know on what they went through or experienced, not just for your sake but also for the girl that you can also consider in terms of "weight"/"gravity" in her life. I talked to my ex's parents before in sort of confronting the issues they were worried about (although only the dad coz the mum never really wanted to talk to me). (also it wasn't an age issue but rather they wanted someone better for their daughter). The dad was at least accommodating to hear me out, but they still didn't change their mind although they knew/felt my heart was in the right place. Just know that it is still possible even after talking with the dad/parents that they still wouldn't change their mind at that point in time, although they will at least see your sincerity which gives them something to think about. Cheers! I really couldn't tell you much about how things went for them, I haven't spoken to her in over a year and never knew much about the personal side of her relationship. If I somehow had a chance to talk to her I definitely would though. And as far as the chance that the parents might not sway is a chance I'm willing to take. I have nothing left to lose at this point.
No sir. Not telling you to tell us the detail. What I mean by my statement is that her experience might give you an insight as to what the girl had to go through (if there was any parental objection).
As for talking with the dad. I agree, you should try to talk to him at least. Or if he really doesnt want to, then at least you try to try and talk even if it doesn't happen.
But if the outcome of the talk is not positive and there are still apprehensions from the dad regarding you two, then I would just advice you to wait for her to age a bit more. =) At least the "reasoning" of the parents that she is too young would no longer be valid. =)
So GL and whatever happens, keep a bright outlook in life. It is not the end of the world, although it would definitely feel like it if everything doesn't fall into place. But keep in mind, you can always stack it back up again after it crumbles and build yourself up. It's not the end, only a new beginning.
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hahe what the hell, theres 3 years between me and my partner shes 30 ive just turned 28 and shell be 31 soon. Its like how old are all your parents compared? age means shit, generally most 16-20 year old girls in most cases are more mature then a LARGE majority of guys between the age of 16-24 if even that, I sitll havent grown up:D haha
Think it would be differnet if she was under age(obisouly) but cant see wat thit sguy has done wrong, its not like all these celebs who hare like 30 dating 18 year old hunks...
you can try talking to her father, problem is he comes accross as a douche bag, and yeh if I had a daughter I wouldnt let anyone go near her eithier :D Hes think straight away all you want is sex which may or may not be the case. I think hed probably react similar if you were 18,19 or even 21.
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Find out stuff about her dad, what he likes, what his hobbies are, how he dresses.
Then go "dazzle" him.
EDIT: Also, if you're high rated, woldn't hurt sending him an e-mail of a ss of your ladder score. Proving that you're not a newb either, can't be bad.
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On November 26 2011 20:06 ImDrizzt wrote:
Find out stuff about her dad, what he likes, what his hobbies are, how he dresses.
Then go "dazzle" him.
EDIT: Also, if you're high rated, woldn't hurt sending him an e-mail of a ss of your ladder score. Proving that you're not a newb either, can't be bad.
Sadly I don't expect to place much higher than silver this season, and that's only if I ever get around to even doing so much as a placement match.
As for the other advice, I happen to know we're both montreal canadiens fans, so I figured I'd try and work that in somehow to ease the tension, no idea how effective something like that would really be though...
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I am in an honest mood, so I will give you my opinion with no sugarcoating.
I think that there is nothing inherently and blatantly wrong with the 16-20 scenario, and all in all I pretty much agree with Nazgul. When I was in high school I knew and was friends with a few girls who had older boyfriends, one case was 17-30 and they worked pretty well untill she dumped him for cheating or something, (don't actually recall the exact reason anymore)
On the other hand my opinion is that a real and healthy relationship cannot happen without both parties being intellectual equals, or atleast close to it. These guys I knew back then, who could fall in love and would want to date a highschooler were in my opinion all very immature for their age, and I remember thinking: someone who I can talk to like an equal when I'm 17 and they are 21,23 or 30, is not someone I would like to grow up to be like. Back then it seemed an equivalent with me at 17 dating a 14yearold or something, which was (and still is) to me, unthinkable. Not because of some arbitrary formula or because it's not deemed socially acceptable or whatever, but because I knew what I was like at 14, and what the girls were like, and what they talked about and what they thought about at that age, and to my mind 14-17, or for that matter 16-20, 17-21 or 17-30, are completely different intellectual worlds, in almost every respect.
Another point would be that girls from the age of 13-18 or so, when they start to develop an interest in the opposite sex, can act a lot more mature than they really are, simply because relationships generaly weigh heavily on their minds at that time, and having a boyfriend is frequently a priority, and having an older boyfriend makes them feel good about themselves. They are not really looking for a life-partner at that age, but essentially exploring. While there are cases where such relationships can work longterm, they are exceedingly rare.
So I guess my point is, if you think you and this girl are equals in every way that matters, go for it, although in my experience this "thing" with you, for her is not a long-term thing, even if she thinks it is now.
My second point is that you're probably not a guy I could like in real life, or could harbor a lot of respect for.
As for specific advice what to do right now, there is none to be given, since every one of us posters is operating with extremely limited information, and you're in a far better situation to judge what to do than us, so if I were you, I would not base my actions in the following few days on anything anyone has to say here, It's up to you to think it through, and do what you think is best (that's pretty much all anyone can do, and does, at any time)
Good luck, if it works out I hope you two share lots of happy moments which you will remember fondly for the rest of your life, and if it doesn't, I hope it all resolves with as little suffering as possible for everyone concerned.
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On November 26 2011 21:13 Myrkul wrote:
I am in an honest mood, so I will give you my opinion with no sugarcoating.
I think that there is nothing inherently and blatantly wrong with the 16-20 scenario, and all in all I pretty much agree with Nazgul. When I was in high school I knew and was friends with a few girls who had older boyfriends, one case was 17-30 and they worked pretty well untill she dumped him for cheating or something, (don't actually recall the exact reason anymore)
On the other hand my opinion is that a real and healthy relationship cannot happen without both parties being intellectual equals, or atleast close to it. These guys I knew back then, who could fall in love and would want to date a highschooler were in my opinion all very immature for their age, and I remember thinking: someone who I can talk to like an equal when I'm 17 and they are 21,23 or 30, is not someone I would like to grow up to be like. Back then it seemed an equivalent with me at 17 dating a 14yearold or something, which was (and still is) to me, unthinkable. Not because of some arbitrary formula or because it's not deemed socially acceptable or whatever, but because I knew what I was like at 14, and what the girls were like, and what they talked about and what they thought about at that age, and to my mind 14-17, or for that matter 16-20, 17-21 or 17-30, are completely different intellectual worlds, in almost every respect.
Another point would be that girls from the age of 13-18 or so, when they start to develop an interest in the opposite sex, can act a lot more mature than they really are, simply because relationships generaly weigh heavily on their minds at that time, and having a boyfriend is frequently a priority, and having an older boyfriend makes them feel good about themselves. They are not really looking for a life-partner at that age, but essentially exploring. While there are cases where such relationships can work longterm, they are exceedingly rare.
So I guess my point is, if you think you and this girl are equals in every way that matters, go for it, although in my experience this "thing" with you, for her is not a long-term thing, even if she thinks it is now.
My second point is that you're probably not a guy I could like in real life, or could harbor a lot of respect for.
As for specific advice what to do right now, there is none to be given, since every one of us posters is operating with extremely limited information, and you're in a far better situation to judge what to do than us, so if I were you, I would not base my actions in the following few days on anything anyone has to say here, It's up to you to think it through, and do what you think is best (that's pretty much all anyone can do, and does, at any time)
Good luck, if it works out I hope you two share lots of happy moments which you will remember fondly for the rest of your life, and if it doesn't, I hope it all resolves with as little suffering as possible for everyone concerned.
I realize it might not last forever, I'm looking at the present while placing the future slightly to the side so I don't get ahead of myself. It's definitely on my mind (my future, that is) and I definitely would say I hope it does last, but all I want is for us to have the chance to see for ourselves if it does, rather than have others decide for us that it isn't right or that it won't work out anyway. It should be for us to find out, not for others to predict.
It should be pointed out that your opinion of me is completely irrelevant and an unnecessary part of your post, and only served to diminish what you've said here. Ad hominem has no place in any discussion.
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On November 26 2011 21:44 ABagOfFritos wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2011 21:13 Myrkul wrote:
I am in an honest mood, so I will give you my opinion with no sugarcoating.
I think that there is nothing inherently and blatantly wrong with the 16-20 scenario, and all in all I pretty much agree with Nazgul. When I was in high school I knew and was friends with a few girls who had older boyfriends, one case was 17-30 and they worked pretty well untill she dumped him for cheating or something, (don't actually recall the exact reason anymore)
On the other hand my opinion is that a real and healthy relationship cannot happen without both parties being intellectual equals, or atleast close to it. These guys I knew back then, who could fall in love and would want to date a highschooler were in my opinion all very immature for their age, and I remember thinking: someone who I can talk to like an equal when I'm 17 and they are 21,23 or 30, is not someone I would like to grow up to be like. Back then it seemed an equivalent with me at 17 dating a 14yearold or something, which was (and still is) to me, unthinkable. Not because of some arbitrary formula or because it's not deemed socially acceptable or whatever, but because I knew what I was like at 14, and what the girls were like, and what they talked about and what they thought about at that age, and to my mind 14-17, or for that matter 16-20, 17-21 or 17-30, are completely different intellectual worlds, in almost every respect.
Another point would be that girls from the age of 13-18 or so, when they start to develop an interest in the opposite sex, can act a lot more mature than they really are, simply because relationships generaly weigh heavily on their minds at that time, and having a boyfriend is frequently a priority, and having an older boyfriend makes them feel good about themselves. They are not really looking for a life-partner at that age, but essentially exploring. While there are cases where such relationships can work longterm, they are exceedingly rare.
So I guess my point is, if you think you and this girl are equals in every way that matters, go for it, although in my experience this "thing" with you, for her is not a long-term thing, even if she thinks it is now.
My second point is that you're probably not a guy I could like in real life, or could harbor a lot of respect for.
As for specific advice what to do right now, there is none to be given, since every one of us posters is operating with extremely limited information, and you're in a far better situation to judge what to do than us, so if I were you, I would not base my actions in the following few days on anything anyone has to say here, It's up to you to think it through, and do what you think is best (that's pretty much all anyone can do, and does, at any time)
Good luck, if it works out I hope you two share lots of happy moments which you will remember fondly for the rest of your life, and if it doesn't, I hope it all resolves with as little suffering as possible for everyone concerned. I realize it might not last forever, I'm looking at the present while placing the future slightly to the side so I don't get ahead of myself. It's definitely on my mind (my future, that is) and I definitely would say I hope it does last, but all I want is for us to have the chance to see for ourselves if it does, rather than have others decide for us that it isn't right or that it won't work out anyway. It should be for us to find out, not for others to predict. It should be pointed out that your opinion of me is completely irrelevant and an unnecessary part of your post, and only served to diminish what you've said here. Ad hominem has no place in any discussion.
This is not a discussion, you have not proposed a theory or argument nor anything of the sort, you simply
described a situation, and asked others to comment on it. A comment is not a formal logical discussion. I didn't say I think your opinion is wrong because I don't like you, I simply stated that I don't like you, there is no fallacy here.
Prettty much the point of these forums is that a topic is brought up, and everyone writes down their current thought proccess on the subject, and this is exactly what I did. If you wanted people to not comment on the situation, but just limit themselves to advising you, your charge of irrelevancy would be applicable to 90% of the posts here. But you limited it to me, because you didn't like my comment, and wanted to retaliate while at the same time appearing very mature about it, which I guess is understandable. In fact the best example of irrelevancy in this thread I can find is your offtopic speculation as to the motives of those writing the "socially acceptable dating formula".
Anyway, I've already involved myself way more with this thread than I usually do, don't really know why I'm replying right now, I think it was your innacurate fallacy charge that brought me in the second time.
Bottom line is, you asked for a comment, I gave one, case closed, nobody says you have to like it.
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On November 26 2011 22:16 Myrkul wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2011 21:44 ABagOfFritos wrote:On November 26 2011 21:13 Myrkul wrote:
I am in an honest mood, so I will give you my opinion with no sugarcoating.
I think that there is nothing inherently and blatantly wrong with the 16-20 scenario, and all in all I pretty much agree with Nazgul. When I was in high school I knew and was friends with a few girls who had older boyfriends, one case was 17-30 and they worked pretty well untill she dumped him for cheating or something, (don't actually recall the exact reason anymore)
On the other hand my opinion is that a real and healthy relationship cannot happen without both parties being intellectual equals, or atleast close to it. These guys I knew back then, who could fall in love and would want to date a highschooler were in my opinion all very immature for their age, and I remember thinking: someone who I can talk to like an equal when I'm 17 and they are 21,23 or 30, is not someone I would like to grow up to be like. Back then it seemed an equivalent with me at 17 dating a 14yearold or something, which was (and still is) to me, unthinkable. Not because of some arbitrary formula or because it's not deemed socially acceptable or whatever, but because I knew what I was like at 14, and what the girls were like, and what they talked about and what they thought about at that age, and to my mind 14-17, or for that matter 16-20, 17-21 or 17-30, are completely different intellectual worlds, in almost every respect.
Another point would be that girls from the age of 13-18 or so, when they start to develop an interest in the opposite sex, can act a lot more mature than they really are, simply because relationships generaly weigh heavily on their minds at that time, and having a boyfriend is frequently a priority, and having an older boyfriend makes them feel good about themselves. They are not really looking for a life-partner at that age, but essentially exploring. While there are cases where such relationships can work longterm, they are exceedingly rare.
So I guess my point is, if you think you and this girl are equals in every way that matters, go for it, although in my experience this "thing" with you, for her is not a long-term thing, even if she thinks it is now.
My second point is that you're probably not a guy I could like in real life, or could harbor a lot of respect for.
As for specific advice what to do right now, there is none to be given, since every one of us posters is operating with extremely limited information, and you're in a far better situation to judge what to do than us, so if I were you, I would not base my actions in the following few days on anything anyone has to say here, It's up to you to think it through, and do what you think is best (that's pretty much all anyone can do, and does, at any time)
Good luck, if it works out I hope you two share lots of happy moments which you will remember fondly for the rest of your life, and if it doesn't, I hope it all resolves with as little suffering as possible for everyone concerned. I realize it might not last forever, I'm looking at the present while placing the future slightly to the side so I don't get ahead of myself. It's definitely on my mind (my future, that is) and I definitely would say I hope it does last, but all I want is for us to have the chance to see for ourselves if it does, rather than have others decide for us that it isn't right or that it won't work out anyway. It should be for us to find out, not for others to predict. It should be pointed out that your opinion of me is completely irrelevant and an unnecessary part of your post, and only served to diminish what you've said here. Ad hominem has no place in any discussion. This is not a discussion, you have not proposed a theory or argument nor anything of the sort, you simply described a situation, and asked others to comment on it. A comment is not a formal logical discussion. I didn't say I think your opinion is wrong because I don't like you, I simply stated that I don't like you, there is no fallacy here. Prettty much the point of these forums is that a topic is brought up, and everyone writes down their current thought proccess on the subject, and this is exactly what I did. If you wanted people to not comment on the situation, but just limit themselves to advising you, your charge of irrelevancy would be applicable to 90% of the posts here. But you limited it to me, because you didn't like my comment, and wanted to retaliate while at the same time appearing very mature about it, which I guess is understandable. In fact the best example of irrelevancy in this thread I can find is your offtopic speculation as to the motives of those writing the "socially acceptable dating formula". Anyway, I've already involved myself way more with this thread than I usually do, don't really know why I'm replying right now, I think it was your innacurate fallacy charge that brought me in the second time. Bottom line is, you asked for a comment, I gave one, case closed, nobody says you have to like it.
I didn't say anything about it being fallacious, simply that it was unnecessary and served no purpose.
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A thought occurred to me, and I'd like to just see what people think. I text her dad and ask "If I were to call, would you be willing to hear me out?"
Thoughts?
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On November 27 2011 05:45 ABagOfFritos wrote:
A thought occurred to me, and I'd like to just see what people think. I text her dad and ask "If I were to call, would you be willing to hear me out?"
Thoughts?
Depends on if her dad uses texting.
Kidding aside, I wouldn't do that except as a last resort sort of thing. It's way too easy just to type "no" and hit send in response to someone you don't really like and have that be the end of things. If you want to convince him, you'll need to have a face-to-face conversation, IMO. I'd ask her to try to convince her dad, personally, and if that doesn't work out, then I'd go for the "wait and see" route.
Editing to add that maybe the best way to go about this is to show him that you're not just a guy who wants to take advantage of his sixteen year old daughter. If you wait two years and maybe just keep contact with her through other means -- like email/texting/etc. -- maybe that'll convince him. Two years is a bit of a long time, but if you're willing to wait, then that might be the best way to go about convincing him that you're not just looking for a fling.
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This is so Romeo-and-Juliet-esque that I'm really intrigued by this story.
I have no insight to give, for I was never in a situation similar to this, but I wanted to wish you the best of luck.
When everything works out, it will be a story you'll tell your kids some day.
Please don't let it take 7 seasons, though. That's just obnoxious.
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I hope you asked if you could at least be friends with her?
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On November 27 2011 10:32 babylon wrote:
I hope you asked if you could at least be friends with her?
It goes without saying that we're going to remain friends.
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Tentative conclusion. We're gonna wait. We both know things can change, for better or for worse, and we've both decided that for now, we're willing to wait and see where life takes us. Thanks to everyone who was encouraging and supportive, even when I disagreed with your opinions.
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Just see it from her dads perspective and you'll find that most dads would act the same.
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Whoa wait I missed the part about her being 16.
+ Show Spoiler +WELL THERE'S YOUR PROBLEM!
I'm 17 and I don't mess with younger girls.
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EPT
