Hi. I'm in a sharing mood, so here's a story. Go read something else now if you aren't interested in drama. So I'm 20 years old, been trying to figure out what I wanna do with my life and finally decided University wasn't doing me any good and went to a tech school to work with computers and make a living that way. Anyways this school is technically a high-school, but accepts mature students as well, and I met a girl there. She's 16. We clicked really fast and things were awesome, I'd never felt more comfortable with someone before, until her dad found out I was 20. At first it seemed like things wouldn't be so bad, that he would be upset about it and that would be it. Nope. Earlier this week he forbade her from seeing me outside of school, and she and I are trying to convince him to at least meet me to see that I'm not a bad guy. Hoping that he will at least give me a chance. He reluctantly agreed to this but sometime yesterday or the day before changed his mind. Yesterday he came to the school near the end of the day to pick her up (usually she takes the bus with me) and apparently spoke with the vice principal about the situation, and now this VP will be talking with my girl on Monday. He's threatening to pull her out of the school if our relationship continues. As far as I can tell he refuses to talk to me, I want to call him and initiate a conversation myself but I'm not sure when or how to do it. Right now I feel like I should wait at least until Monday to see what happens between her and the vice principal before doing anything else, but I'd be lying if I said I wasn't completely lost right now. What do, TL?
There seems to be a lot of confusion popping up as to the legality of the relationship since so many people refuse to read the thread before posting, the legal age of consent in Canada is 16, so this is a non-issue.
Update: I spoke with the father today. As many of you will have guessed, it didn't go well. I opened right away with telling him that all I wanted was for him to give us a chance. His only response was "not gonna happen." The guy was not open to a discussion. From what I could gather, it isn't only that I'm older than she is, but also that she's dating in general. I admit this is something of an assumption but he went back and forth between calling me a child and calling me an adult, which leads me to believe he doesn't care how old I am. This is a severely closed-minded person. He has actually spoken to more than one staff member at the school about me, and in his own words says they had nothing but great things to say, but he doesn't want his daughter to grow up.
Tentative conclusion. We're gonna wait. We both know things can change, for better or for worse, and we've both decided that for now, we're willing to wait and see where life takes us. Thanks to everyone who was encouraging and supportive, even when I disagreed with your opinions.
Would hate to be in your shoes right now dude .. really i mean that.
Not too much you can do except for not putting pressure on her in ANY way at all now. never forget that she is still the minor and you are stronger and more mature than her , and even more so she is between two fires right now. Imo you really should try hard to see her dad and talk to her man, go over to her house unnanounced even if need be, you have nothing to lose at the moment as far as i can see..
I wish you best of luck man and hope it works out for you!
Edit: ignore all the "dating a minor is frowned upon" and other similar bs, that is completely besides the question here
ranshaked United States. November 26 2011 09:26. Posts 366 PM Profile Blog Quote Edit # She's too young bro. Honestly I'm 22 and I won't date anyone you get than 21.
Tbh I find it creepy. You're 20. Hang out w people your age. She's still in high school anyway you put it
On November 26 2011 09:27 RetroAspect wrote: Would hate to be in your shoes right now dude .. really i mean that.
Not too much you can do except for not putting pressure on her in ANY way at all now. never forget that she is still the minor and you are stronger and more mature than her , and even more so she is between two fires right now. Imo you really should try hard to see her dad and talk to her man, go over to her house unnanounced even if need be, you have nothing to lose at the moment as far as i can see..
I wish you best of luck man and hope it works out for you!
Edit: ignore all the "dating a minor is frowned upon" and other similar bs, that is completely besides the question here
Thanks for the post, this is pretty much where I'm sitting, I know I need to talk to this guy but I'm finding it impossible to determine when would be a good time.
You're definitely gonna get some major frowning upon by most people. Even though its only four years, there's a significant gap in the perceived maturity structure of society. She, 16, is in many ways classed as a non-adult, while you, 20, clearly are. As a result people just make the blanket (though often correct) disapproval of all such instances of the relationship. Sadly society's kneejerk is much stronger than any rational thought you could present. If you can wait it out, till she's finished high school you'll find much stronger acceptance.
Hmm , imo its more the nervous tension/fear that is holding you back rather than the concept of appropriate timing, if i can take that liberty
Seems your pretty short on time though, since monday the VP is gonna talk to her on monday etc etc.. Try talking to her about the timing perhaps? and if she cant shed some light on that , just relax , put on your bravest pair of shoes and go over man!
On November 26 2011 09:32 Dali. wrote: You're definitely gonna get some major frowning upon by most people. Even though its only four years, there's a significant gap in the perceived maturity structure of society. She, 16, is in many ways classed as a non-adult, while you, 20, clearly are. As a result people just make the blanket (though often correct) disapproval of all such instances of the relationship. Sadly society's kneejerk is much stronger than any rational thought you could present. If you can wait it out, till she's finished high school you'll find much stronger acceptance.
This doesn't bother me. People can tell me I'm wrong all they want, as long as I can convince her dad I'll be happy.
Perhaps he's racist? I don't know the races involved but this could potentially be a factor. If this is the factor you will probably have an easier time convincing him.
That's probably not the case though, so here's my advice: she's 16. Unless she's really mature she 99% isn't going to be with you forever. It's not easy to be with someone for that long, and if you can't be in the same room with her and hate her guts, then you will not last forever. Her dad knows this and he is trying to protect her from the heartbreak that happens when you two break up, even if it is on relatively friendly terms. Being protective like that is bullshit, though. I probably wouldn't attempt to "protect" my daughter like that because it will just reinforce the idea in her mind that males dominate the world, that she is essentially my property, and implanting these ideas in her mind will probably cause her to develop a very bad cheating problem when she gets to be around your age.
Idk what else to say man... this really sucks for you and he should recognize that his daughter is old enough to make her own decisions. What's the legal age where you live? Some places it's younger than 18. In fact I've seen the age be 14 in some places. So don't give up completely, but if she's legal and decides you over her dad, be prepared to support her financially for a long time. And if you break up then she will have it rough. But don't let these things discourage you. If you two are really in love then it will work out if you both really want it to. Try not to stress about it too much and just relax.
On November 26 2011 09:32 Dali. wrote: You're definitely gonna get some major frowning upon by most people. Even though its only four years, there's a significant gap in the perceived maturity structure of society. She, 16, is in many ways classed as a non-adult, while you, 20, clearly are. As a result people just make the blanket (though often correct) disapproval of all such instances of the relationship. Sadly society's kneejerk is much stronger than any rational thought you could present. If you can wait it out, till she's finished high school you'll find much stronger acceptance.
No disrespect, but all those things are completely irrelevant when it comes to the topic of love. One should break through such artificial borders for love and through love . I am speaking from experience.
On November 26 2011 09:35 hp.Shell wrote: Perhaps he's racist? I don't know the races involved but this could potentially be a factor. If this is the factor you will probably have an easier time convincing him.
That's probably not the case though, so here's my advice: she's 16. Unless she's really mature she 99% isn't going to be with you forever. It's not easy to be with someone for that long, and if you can't be in the same room with her and hate her guts, then you will not last forever. Her dad knows this and he is trying to protect her from the heartbreak that happens when you two break up, even if it is on relatively friendly terms. Being protective like that is bullshit, though. I probably wouldn't attempt to "protect" my daughter like that because it will just reinforce the idea in her mind that males dominate the world, that she is essentially my property, and implanting these ideas in her mind will probably cause her to develop a very bad cheating problem when she gets to be around your age.
Idk what else to say man... this really sucks for you and he should recognize that his daughter is old enough to make her own decisions. What's the legal age where you live? Some places it's younger than 18. In fact I've seen the age be 14 in some places. So don't give up completely, but if she's legal and decides you over her dad, be prepared to support her financially for a long time. And if you break up then she will have it rough. But don't let these things discourage you. If you two are really in love then it will work out if you both really want it to. Try not to stress about it too much and just relax.
Have a good day.
Yeah race isn't an issue here. XD These are some good points you've made, and I posted in the original thread that the age of consent here is 16, which is an increase fairly recently (within the past 6 years) from 14.
Although I don't really see any inherent problem with the relationship, at least not from what you said, unfortunately if you have the father against you from the beginning you probably aren't going to get anywhere. If I were you, I'd take it very slow, if you try to get together against his will, you're just asking for trouble. There's really not much more you can do, I don't think, just try to get him to meet with you, maybe he'd be more open to it if she wasn't there, just you and him. Maybe meet him for a beer or something if you're into that kind of thing. That's the best advice I can think of, really. Just try to get him on your side and see what happens.
On November 26 2011 09:49 ranshaked wrote: I posted your question on another forum an all the responses say you've got an issue. SPecifically a maturity issue
I don't think it would be difficult to find a large number of people who would agree that you have a maturity issue.
On November 26 2011 09:49 ranshaked wrote: I posted your question on another forum an all the responses say you've got an issue. SPecifically a maturity issue
I don't think it would be difficult to find a large number of people who would agree that you have a maturity issue.
Dude. There's a gap between you and her. It's just not right. Think about it for a second. You're dating someone in high school. I don't mean to sound rude but it's creepy and wrong
On November 26 2011 09:49 ranshaked wrote: I posted your question on another forum an all the responses say you've got an issue. SPecifically a maturity issue
I don't think it would be difficult to find a large number of people who would agree that you have a maturity issue.
Dude. There's a gap between you and her. It's just not right. Think about it for a second. You're dating someone in high school. I don't mean to sound rude but it's creepy and wrong
On November 26 2011 09:49 ranshaked wrote: I posted your question on another forum an all the responses say you've got an issue. SPecifically a maturity issue
I don't think it would be difficult to find a large number of people who would agree that you have a maturity issue.
Dude. There's a gap between you and her. It's just not right. Think about it for a second. You're dating someone in high school. I don't mean to sound rude but it's creepy and wrong
What is WRONG with YOU? who are you to judge people you don't even know? there is no common standard or whatever for such matters..
On November 26 2011 09:49 ranshaked wrote: I posted your question on another forum an all the responses say you've got an issue. SPecifically a maturity issue
I don't think it would be difficult to find a large number of people who would agree that you have a maturity issue.
Dude. There's a gap between you and her. It's just not right. Think about it for a second. You're dating someone in high school. I don't mean to sound rude but it's creepy and wrong
Mind telling me how old you are?
22. I wouldn't date anyone under 21. I prefer older women.
On November 26 2011 09:49 ranshaked wrote: I posted your question on another forum an all the responses say you've got an issue. SPecifically a maturity issue
I don't think it would be difficult to find a large number of people who would agree that you have a maturity issue.
Dude. There's a gap between you and her. It's just not right. Think about it for a second. You're dating someone in high school. I don't mean to sound rude but it's creepy and wrong
What is WRONG with YOU? who are you to judge people you don't even know? there is no common standard or whatever for such matters..
Show me a 16 year old that is mature enough to handle a relationship and the grown up life
On November 26 2011 09:49 ranshaked wrote: I posted your question on another forum an all the responses say you've got an issue. SPecifically a maturity issue
I don't think it would be difficult to find a large number of people who would agree that you have a maturity issue.
Dude. There's a gap between you and her. It's just not right. Think about it for a second. You're dating someone in high school. I don't mean to sound rude but it's creepy and wrong
Mind telling me how old you are?
22. I wouldn't date anyone under 21. I prefer older women.
Ok I didn't ask for your preference on women, which don't get me wrong, is absolutely fascinating, but you're telling me that at 22, if you met someone who was 17/18 that you completely fell for, and who felt the same way about you, you would simply step aside and not pursue that relationship? That would make for a sad little piece of your life story.
On November 26 2011 09:49 ranshaked wrote: I posted your question on another forum an all the responses say you've got an issue. SPecifically a maturity issue
I don't think it would be difficult to find a large number of people who would agree that you have a maturity issue.
Dude. There's a gap between you and her. It's just not right. Think about it for a second. You're dating someone in high school. I don't mean to sound rude but it's creepy and wrong
Mind telling me how old you are?
22. I wouldn't date anyone under 21. I prefer older women.
Ok I didn't ask for your preference on women, which don't get me wrong, is absolutely fascinating, but you're telling me that at 22, if you met someone who was 17/18 that you completely fell for, and who felt the same way about you, you would simply step aside and not pursue that relationship? That would make for a sad little piece of your life story.
No because I'm an adult. I do adult things that a high schooler can't do. I pay bills and have a job. When you're in hs you aren't an adult. So either you're still not mature enough to accept adult hood or you're a creep.
OP, don't deflect. Its creepy. Clearly you don't give a damn about that, which is fine: we're not your parents, and we're not hers. All I'm saying is, most people will think its creepy and her dad will think its creepy. You can try and butter him up and tell him how mature she is for her age and how committed you are to her etc. but if that doesn't work, that's it. She's a child, and you're not, and he knows it.
On November 26 2011 09:32 Dali. wrote: You're definitely gonna get some major frowning upon by most people. Even though its only four years, there's a significant gap in the perceived maturity structure of society. She, 16, is in many ways classed as a non-adult, while you, 20, clearly are. As a result people just make the blanket (though often correct) disapproval of all such instances of the relationship. Sadly society's kneejerk is much stronger than any rational thought you could present. If you can wait it out, till she's finished high school you'll find much stronger acceptance.
This doesn't bother me. People can tell me I'm wrong all they want, as long as I can convince her dad I'll be happy.
But I think that you are missing a crucial part of this. What if her father is one of those people who see a huge gap between 16 and 20. I think you will find it hard to negotiate with him. Honestly bro, I think it would be best if you let it go and try to find someone else more within your age range.
I know you like this girl, probably a lot, and probably with nothing but good intentions; but...
She's 16. There's a good chance that she herself isn't emotionally stable to maintain an adult relationship that will be permanent. Christ, I would never date a woman under 26 for that reason specifically.
What I'm saying, is that so much changes in a person during high school, and especially university. Do you think it's worth all this hassle for a relationship that has to survive such tumultuous periods of time? You're more mature than she is - and still, you're a kid (yes, I'm much older than you - and I don't call you a "kid" in a derogatory way) but her - she's a child.
From everything I've seen, relationships that start at such an age (her age) are almost guaranteed to end before they become serious. Given the added stress of your situation, I'd say that makes things that much more difficult for you two.
If you really think you have a shot, stay friends, wait. See what happens when she's 20 and you're 24 (or 22 and you're 26 etc. etc.) You have to ask yourself, is all the stress you're placing on the two of you (and her family) worth the gamble?
On November 26 2011 09:49 ranshaked wrote: I posted your question on another forum an all the responses say you've got an issue. SPecifically a maturity issue
I don't think it would be difficult to find a large number of people who would agree that you have a maturity issue.
Dude. There's a gap between you and her. It's just not right. Think about it for a second. You're dating someone in high school. I don't mean to sound rude but it's creepy and wrong
Mind telling me how old you are?
22. I wouldn't date anyone under 21. I prefer older women.
Ok I didn't ask for your preference on women, which don't get me wrong, is absolutely fascinating, but you're telling me that at 22, if you met someone who was 17/18 that you completely fell for, and who felt the same way about you, you would simply step aside and not pursue that relationship? That would make for a sad little piece of your life story.
No because I'm an adult. I do adult things that a high schooler can't do. I pay bills and have a job. When you're in hs you aren't an adult. So either you're still not mature enough to accept adult hood or you're a creep.
Or you were an immature high school student, and are trying to prove something to yourself now after spending so many years acting foolishly. You're creating false dichotomies here and it's clear to me that your education wasn't the best available. Was it the school's fault or your own?
On November 26 2011 09:49 ranshaked wrote: I posted your question on another forum an all the responses say you've got an issue. SPecifically a maturity issue
I don't think it would be difficult to find a large number of people who would agree that you have a maturity issue.
Dude. There's a gap between you and her. It's just not right. Think about it for a second. You're dating someone in high school. I don't mean to sound rude but it's creepy and wrong
Mind telling me how old you are?
22. I wouldn't date anyone under 21. I prefer older women.
Ok I didn't ask for your preference on women, which don't get me wrong, is absolutely fascinating, but you're telling me that at 22, if you met someone who was 17/18 that you completely fell for, and who felt the same way about you, you would simply step aside and not pursue that relationship? That would make for a sad little piece of your life story.
No because I'm an adult. I do adult things that a high schooler can't do. I pay bills and have a job. When you're in hs you aren't an adult. So either you're still not mature enough to accept adult hood or you're a creep.
I am not accustomed with the small , closed box of a brain you have , but surely something like "differentation" must be able to percolate? enuff said!
I know you like this girl, probably a lot, and probably with nothing but good intentions; but...
She's 16. There's a good chance that she herself isn't emotionally stable to maintain an adult relationship that will be permanent. Christ, I would never date a woman under 26 for that reason specifically.
What I'm saying, is that so much changes in a person during high school, and especially university. Do you think it's worth all this hassle for a relationship that has to survive such tumultuous periods of time? You're more mature than she is - and still, you're a kid (yes, I'm much older than you - and I don't call you a "kid" in a derogatory way) but her - she's a child.
From everything I've seen, relationships that start at such an age (her age) are almost guaranteed to end before they become serious. Given the added stress of your situation, I'd say that makes things that much more difficult for you two.
If you really think you have a shot, stay friends, wait. See what happens when she's 20 and you're 24 (or 22 and you're 26 etc. etc.) You have to ask yourself, is all the stress you're placing on the two of you (and her family) worth the gamble?
We've both discussed it at length together, and we both feel it's worth it. Should things go wrong at some point, so be it, but as things presently stand we want to go for it. I really appreciate this post by the way.
On November 26 2011 09:49 ranshaked wrote: I posted your question on another forum an all the responses say you've got an issue. SPecifically a maturity issue
I don't think it would be difficult to find a large number of people who would agree that you have a maturity issue.
Dude. There's a gap between you and her. It's just not right. Think about it for a second. You're dating someone in high school. I don't mean to sound rude but it's creepy and wrong
Mind telling me how old you are?
22. I wouldn't date anyone under 21. I prefer older women.
Ok I didn't ask for your preference on women, which don't get me wrong, is absolutely fascinating, but you're telling me that at 22, if you met someone who was 17/18 that you completely fell for, and who felt the same way about you, you would simply step aside and not pursue that relationship? That would make for a sad little piece of your life story.
No because I'm an adult. I do adult things that a high schooler can't do. I pay bills and have a job. When you're in hs you aren't an adult. So either you're still not mature enough to accept adult hood or you're a creep.
Or you were an immature high school student, and are trying to prove something to yourself now after spending so many years acting foolishly. You're creating false dichotomies here and it's clear to me that your education wasn't the best available. Was it the school's fault or your own?
Obviously you do not get the point. Does usin big words make you feel better? A 12 year old can use big words. This has nothing to do with intelligence, but rather maturity. I'm done arguing with you. If my father saw my sister dating an adult. He would probably tell him kindly to go away. If I were you I'd stay away Do what my uncle did. Go away for school. Come back when she's out of high school and grown
Not worth it to be honest. Girls under the age of 22 are so flippy floppy with their emotions they don't know what they want. You have many years ahead of you to find a girl your age.
On November 26 2011 09:49 ranshaked wrote: I posted your question on another forum an all the responses say you've got an issue. SPecifically a maturity issue
I don't think it would be difficult to find a large number of people who would agree that you have a maturity issue.
Dude. There's a gap between you and her. It's just not right. Think about it for a second. You're dating someone in high school. I don't mean to sound rude but it's creepy and wrong
I'm not validating or condemning the OP, but I just want to say that "It's just not right." isn't a justification for anything without a more solid points to back up your argument. If it's working for both of the people involved, where is the issue?
On November 26 2011 10:11 Magrath wrote: Not worth it to be honest. Girls under the age of 22 are so flippy floppy with their emotions they don't know what they want. You have many years ahead of you to find a girl your age.
It isn't really your place to tell me whether it's worth it or not. I understand your point completely, but it should also be pointed out that it's a severely unfair generalization to say this about girls of a certain age in general.
On November 26 2011 09:32 Dali. wrote: You're definitely gonna get some major frowning upon by most people. Even though its only four years, there's a significant gap in the perceived maturity structure of society. She, 16, is in many ways classed as a non-adult, while you, 20, clearly are. As a result people just make the blanket (though often correct) disapproval of all such instances of the relationship. Sadly society's kneejerk is much stronger than any rational thought you could present. If you can wait it out, till she's finished high school you'll find much stronger acceptance.
No disrespect, but all those things are completely irrelevant when it comes to the topic of love. One should break through such artificial borders for love and through love. I am speaking from experience.
Biological adulthood (the beginnings of puberty, the ability to conceive) is not an equaliser. A 12 year old girl is not classed as equal to a 30 year old man. Perhaps two such parties could be in 'love' but the intellectual and cultural gap separating them is too large to be considered acceptable. Their is a reasonable necessity for relative levels of intellectual maturity to ensure a relationship is balanced equally between the two consenting parties. Our friend here inhabits a very different world to this girl. He is (presumably) self-sufficient, working and considering/undetaking higher education. The girl in highschool, and (presumably) very dependent on her parents for sustenance. I'm twenty and any sixteen year old girl I know (not really any) would likely be far too young. OP may have found a needle in the haystack, but his chances of convincing the father, assuming the father is anything less than a hyper-reasonable man, are pretty unlikely.
On November 26 2011 09:49 ranshaked wrote: I posted your question on another forum an all the responses say you've got an issue. SPecifically a maturity issue
I don't think it would be difficult to find a large number of people who would agree that you have a maturity issue.
Dude. There's a gap between you and her. It's just not right. Think about it for a second. You're dating someone in high school. I don't mean to sound rude but it's creepy and wrong
Mind telling me how old you are?
22. I wouldn't date anyone under 21. I prefer older women.
Ok I didn't ask for your preference on women, which don't get me wrong, is absolutely fascinating, but you're telling me that at 22, if you met someone who was 17/18 that you completely fell for, and who felt the same way about you, you would simply step aside and not pursue that relationship? That would make for a sad little piece of your life story.
No because I'm an adult. I do adult things that a high schooler can't do. I pay bills and have a job. When you're in hs you aren't an adult. So either you're still not mature enough to accept adult hood or you're a creep.
That was fucking adorable. *buffs up chest* "Look at me, I'm an adult. I pay bills. Respect me! I make society run. Did I mention I pay bills?"
On November 26 2011 09:32 Dali. wrote: You're definitely gonna get some major frowning upon by most people. Even though its only four years, there's a significant gap in the perceived maturity structure of society. She, 16, is in many ways classed as a non-adult, while you, 20, clearly are. As a result people just make the blanket (though often correct) disapproval of all such instances of the relationship. Sadly society's kneejerk is much stronger than any rational thought you could present. If you can wait it out, till she's finished high school you'll find much stronger acceptance.
No disrespect, but all those things are completely irrelevant when it comes to the topic of love. One should break through such artificial borders for love and through love. I am speaking from experience.
Biological adulthood (the beginnings of puberty, the ability to conceive) is not an equaliser. A 12 year old girl is not classed as equal to a 30 year old man. Perhaps two such parties could be in 'love' but the intellectual and cultural gap separating them is too large to be considered acceptable. Their is a reasonable necessity for relative levels of intellectual maturity to ensure a relationship is balanced equally between the two consenting parties. Our friend here inhabits a very different world to this girl. He is (presumably) self-sufficient, working and considering/undetaking higher education. The girl in highschool, and (presumably) very dependent on her parents for sustenance. I'm twenty and any sixteen year old girl I know (not really any) would likely be far too young. OP may have found a needle in the haystack, but his chances of convincing the father, assuming the father is anything less than a hyper-reasonable man, are pretty unlikely.
This post is retarded. First of all it's clear you didn't fully read the original post, since a lot of the details you've speculated upon are in there, and you got them wrong. Second of all you compared a situation between two people who meet the legal age of sexual consent to a situation where only one of them does by a long shot, and the other isn't even close. This comparison is completely ridiculous and does not apply.
It doesn't seem like you're doing anything wrong. Talking to the dad sounds like the best option. And for the record
And if she was 12 and he was 16 it wouldn't be a non-issue. You can't just slide ages around and think they're still going to be comparable.
12 and 16 year olds get matched up all the time.
If you're talking to the dad, I think scaring him with worse scenarios can help put your relationship in perspective. Say you won't impregnate her and ruin her education by doing so. I think this is one way to change the minds of conservative old people.
You can also ask him at what age it'd be acceptable to date her. If it's meant to be, perhaps you can survive a few years of just seeing each other at school.
On November 26 2011 10:31 Hidden_MotiveS wrote: It doesn't seem like you're doing anything wrong. Talking to the dad sounds like the best option. And for the record
And if she was 12 and he was 16 it wouldn't be a non-issue. You can't just slide ages around and think they're still going to be comparable.
12 and 16 year olds get matched up all the time.
If you're talking to the dad, I think scaring him with worse scenarios can help put your relationship in perspective. Say you won't impregnate her and ruin her education by doing so. I think this is one way to change the minds of conservative old people.
You can also ask him at what age it'd be acceptable to date her. If it's meant to be, perhaps you can survive a few years of just seeing each other at school.
Unfortunately, even if he lets her stay in school, she finishes her courses here at the end of January, while I'm here until June and then my time in school is effectively over. While it's a nice thought, it simply might not work.
On November 26 2011 09:49 ranshaked wrote: I posted your question on another forum an all the responses say you've got an issue. SPecifically a maturity issue
I don't think it would be difficult to find a large number of people who would agree that you have a maturity issue.
Dude. There's a gap between you and her. It's just not right. Think about it for a second. You're dating someone in high school. I don't mean to sound rude but it's creepy and wrong
Mind telling me how old you are?
22. I wouldn't date anyone under 21. I prefer older women.
Ok I didn't ask for your preference on women, which don't get me wrong, is absolutely fascinating, but you're telling me that at 22, if you met someone who was 17/18 that you completely fell for, and who felt the same way about you, you would simply step aside and not pursue that relationship? That would make for a sad little piece of your life story.
No because I'm an adult. I do adult things that a high schooler can't do. I pay bills and have a job. When you're in hs you aren't an adult. So either you're still not mature enough to accept adult hood or you're a creep.
Or you were an immature high school student, and are trying to prove something to yourself now after spending so many years acting foolishly. You're creating false dichotomies here and it's clear to me that your education wasn't the best available. Was it the school's fault or your own?
On November 26 2011 10:11 Magrath wrote: Not worth it to be honest. Girls under the age of 22 are so flippy floppy with their emotions they don't know what they want. You have many years ahead of you to find a girl your age.
It isn't really your place to tell me whether it's worth it or not. I understand your point completely, but it should also be pointed out that it's a severely unfair generalization to say this about girls of a certain age in general.
You come to TL asking advice ("What do, TL" at the end of your post) and then anything that advises you to go against what you've already decided to do is immediately attacked? Ranshaked makes a great point; she is in highschool, you're not. Your lives are fundamentally different, and she doesn't understand what it's like to be an adult (although, based on your posting neither do you). Also, you equivocating the difference in age between 16-20 as the same as 18-22 is laughable. If you were 16 and this girl were 12 would that be acceptable to you?
The majority of the posts I've seen have told you that it probably won't work out and that you should move on. And you really should. It's pretty selfish to not. She's 16, she lives with her dad; when I lived with my parents they paid for everything I had, even after I got a part time job in highschool to help pay for gas. Her father controls her whole life, just by what he decides to pay for. What happens when her father just decides to stop paying for her car insurance, or her cellphone, or doesn't let her use the internet after like 7:00PM? Will you, her boyfriend, provide her with all these things? Doubtful. She isn't prepared for the consequences of this relationship and neither are you, so I'm gonna have to agree with the advice (which you asked for) of the majority of posts in this thread... just move on.
EDIT: Also OP, I'm not sure what statutory rape laws are in Canada, but if you meet the criteria, it sounds like her dad would be the type of person to report you to the police. My best friends older brother was in the same situation (he later went on to marry the girl whose father said he "raped") and hasn't been able to find a halfway decent job since it happened ~10 years ago, due to being a convicted "rapist". So that's another reason...
I know you like this girl, probably a lot, and probably with nothing but good intentions; but...
She's 16. There's a good chance that she herself isn't emotionally stable to maintain an adult relationship that will be permanent. Christ, I would never date a woman under 26 for that reason specifically.
What I'm saying, is that so much changes in a person during high school, and especially university. Do you think it's worth all this hassle for a relationship that has to survive such tumultuous periods of time? You're more mature than she is - and still, you're a kid (yes, I'm much older than you - and I don't call you a "kid" in a derogatory way) but her - she's a child.
From everything I've seen, relationships that start at such an age (her age) are almost guaranteed to end before they become serious. Given the added stress of your situation, I'd say that makes things that much more difficult for you two.
If you really think you have a shot, stay friends, wait. See what happens when she's 20 and you're 24 (or 22 and you're 26 etc. etc.) You have to ask yourself, is all the stress you're placing on the two of you (and her family) worth the gamble?
We've both discussed it at length together, and we both feel it's worth it. Should things go wrong at some point, so be it, but as things presently stand we want to go for it. I really appreciate this post by the way.
Well, in my opinion, then, if you've both discussed it at length and you both want to pursue the relationship then chances are you're going to regardless of what anyone here says about it. Just be sure you don't get yourself into legal trouble - or booted out of school.
Maybe the best way to show her Dad that you're a legit, serious guy who cares about his daughter is to dial it back a bit. Work hard, show him you're a responsible adult with her best interests in mind. Respect her curfews, respect his wishes (when it comes to that point). Until then, bust your ass at school, be responsible, pay your bills, establish yourself.
Prove to him you're worth it. Prove to him you can provide a decent life for her, 'cause honestly, right now he's probably seeing things in black and white - and to him, you're a 20 year-old university drop-out who is in high school. I know that's not representative of your position but that's likely how he sees it. You have to show him otherwise. I know that doesn't help you immediately but I'm not really sure what else you can do if he refuses to talk to you.
You may have to keep your relationship with this girl very platonic for some time.
On November 26 2011 09:49 ranshaked wrote: I posted your question on another forum an all the responses say you've got an issue. SPecifically a maturity issue
I don't think it would be difficult to find a large number of people who would agree that you have a maturity issue.
Dude. There's a gap between you and her. It's just not right. Think about it for a second. You're dating someone in high school. I don't mean to sound rude but it's creepy and wrong
Mind telling me how old you are?
22. I wouldn't date anyone under 21. I prefer older women.
Ok I didn't ask for your preference on women, which don't get me wrong, is absolutely fascinating, but you're telling me that at 22, if you met someone who was 17/18 that you completely fell for, and who felt the same way about you, you would simply step aside and not pursue that relationship? That would make for a sad little piece of your life story.
No because I'm an adult. I do adult things that a high schooler can't do. I pay bills and have a job. When you're in hs you aren't an adult. So either you're still not mature enough to accept adult hood or you're a creep.
Or you were an immature high school student, and are trying to prove something to yourself now after spending so many years acting foolishly. You're creating false dichotomies here and it's clear to me that your education wasn't the best available. Was it the school's fault or your own?
On November 26 2011 10:11 Magrath wrote: Not worth it to be honest. Girls under the age of 22 are so flippy floppy with their emotions they don't know what they want. You have many years ahead of you to find a girl your age.
It isn't really your place to tell me whether it's worth it or not. I understand your point completely, but it should also be pointed out that it's a severely unfair generalization to say this about girls of a certain age in general.
You come to TL asking advice ("What do, TL" at the end of your post) and then anything that advises you to go against what you've already decided to do is immediately attacked? Ranshaked makes a great point; she is in highschool, you're not. Your lives are fundamentally different, and she doesn't understand what it's like to be an adult (although, based on your posting neither do you). Also, you equivocating the difference in age between 16-20 as the same as 18-22 is laughable. If you were 16 and this girl were 12 would that be acceptable to you?
The majority of the posts I've seen have told you that it probably won't work out and that you should move on. And you really should. It's pretty selfish to not. She's 16, she lives with her dad; when I lived with my parents they paid for everything I had, even after I got a part time job in highschool to help pay for gas. Her father controls her whole life, just by what he decides to pay for. What happens when her father just decides to stop paying for her car insurance, or her cellphone, or doesn't let her use the internet after like 7:00PM? Will you, her boyfriend, provide her with all these things? Doubtful. She isn't prepared for the consequences of this relationship and neither are you, so I'm gonna have to agree with the advice (which you asked for) of the majority of posts in this thread... just move on.
I haven't disregarded the advice of moving on, I've disregarded stupid posts. There is a difference. I'm going to try to look past all of the "subtle" insults you've worked into this post and respond. I didn't make the comparisons you've mentioned about shifting ages around, that to me is irrelevant, as far as I'm concerned, my specific situation is perfectly legal, and therefore there is no good reason for her father to keep us apart. The rest of your post is basically "her dad owns her for now, you can buy her later" so when I see posts like this (which is a majority of the posts advising me to back off) I do have a hard time taking them seriously. Rather than thinking of it as a 20 year old wanting to share his life with a 16 year old, you've treated it as a 20 year old asking a 16 year old's father to pass the torch so he can take over for him in paying for this financial burden. If someone wants to advise me to back off and give a reason for it that is actually good, then I would strongly consider the advice, as I've already been given some good reasons to back off and I'm not just going to toss them aside.
why is everyone assuming that the OP is planning to marry this chick? what's wrong with dating for a while and seeing how it works out?
it's probably not illegal for them to have sex, he's not trying to get her to move in with him, and this adult shit doesn't apply
go for it and have fun - it's not creepy (maybe it is a bad choice, but it's not really creepy) - i have a feeling that the guys saying it's creepy have had girls they like fall for older dudes and harbor a subconscious distaste of girls being with older guys (jealousy)
On November 26 2011 10:41 LaSt)ChAnCe wrote: why is everyone assuming that the OP is planning to marry this chick? what's wrong with dating for a while and seeing how it works out?
it's probably not illegal for them to have sex, he's not trying to get her to move in with him, and this adult shit doesn't apply
go for it and have fun - it's not creepy (maybe it is a bad choice, but it's not really creepy) - i have a feeling that the guys saying it's creepy have had girls they like fall for older dudes and harbor a subconscious distaste of girls being with older guys (jealousy)
No, I dislike the concept of sleeping with a girl that isn't A) fully developed mentally B) fully developed physically
It's all a big joke to me, the OP is the stereotypical guy that can't find someone his own age, so he takes advantage of the youth.
On November 26 2011 10:41 LaSt)ChAnCe wrote: why is everyone assuming that the OP is planning to marry this chick? what's wrong with dating for a while and seeing how it works out?
it's probably not illegal for them to have sex, he's not trying to get her to move in with him, and this adult shit doesn't apply
go for it and have fun - it's not creepy (maybe it is a bad choice, but it's not really creepy) - i have a feeling that the guys saying it's creepy have had girls they like fall for older dudes and harbor a subconscious distaste of girls being with older guys (jealousy)
No, I dislike the concept of sleeping with a girl that isn't A) fully developed mentally B) fully developed physically
It's all a big joke to me, the OP is the stereotypical guy that can't find someone his own age, so he takes advantage of the youth.
You're cute. I feel sorry for the women you date. I also feel kind of sorry for your brain.
On November 26 2011 09:32 Dali. wrote: You're definitely gonna get some major frowning upon by most people. Even though its only four years, there's a significant gap in the perceived maturity structure of society. She, 16, is in many ways classed as a non-adult, while you, 20, clearly are. As a result people just make the blanket (though often correct) disapproval of all such instances of the relationship. Sadly society's kneejerk is much stronger than any rational thought you could present. If you can wait it out, till she's finished high school you'll find much stronger acceptance.
No disrespect, but all those things are completely irrelevant when it comes to the topic of love. One should break through such artificial borders for love and through love. I am speaking from experience.
Biological adulthood (the beginnings of puberty, the ability to conceive) is not an equaliser. A 12 year old girl is not classed as equal to a 30 year old man. Perhaps two such parties could be in 'love' but the intellectual and cultural gap separating them is too large to be considered acceptable. Their is a reasonable necessity for relative levels of intellectual maturity to ensure a relationship is balanced equally between the two consenting parties. Our friend here inhabits a very different world to this girl. He is (presumably) self-sufficient, working and considering/undetaking higher education. The girl in highschool, and (presumably) very dependent on her parents for sustenance. I'm twenty and any sixteen year old girl I know (not really any) would likely be far too young. OP may have found a needle in the haystack, but his chances of convincing the father, assuming the father is anything less than a hyper-reasonable man, are pretty unlikely.
This post is retarded. First of all it's clear you didn't fully read the original post, since a lot of the details you've speculated upon are in there, and you got them wrong. Second of all you compared a situation between two people who meet the legal age of sexual consent to a situation where only one of them does by a long shot, and the other isn't even close. This comparison is completely ridiculous and does not apply.
Hey buddy I'm on your side. I don't think its necessarily wrong, I just think that its probably inappropriate to an extent. I read the OP, though I was specifically responding to the other guys post and in a manner where I was attempting to speak in generalities.
I'm surprised you're using age of consent as a measure of relationship legitimacy. How about a sixteen year old and a thirty year old? You don't think there's an inherent imbalance in that relationship. Hell, it appears to be potentially bordering on sugar daddy status. Again, not saying that there aren't legitimate 16-30 relationships, but they're few and far between. Now in your case ages are close, but like I said, right now there is (at least in my eyes) a substantial differences in your two situations (in the sense of maturity ascribed to both your positions in society), which is gonna make most people uncomfortable, her father most of all.
You said you don't care about other people's thoughts, only her fathers. Well good luck, cause he most likely feels far more uncomfortable than any one else you know, and you're gonna need to be the most standup guy he's meet to get him to warm to you.
I really don't understand what you're here asking for. "What do, TL?" We don't know, maybe she is astonishingly mature and intelligent for her age, maybe you truly are the most kind, innocent and honest guy in town, and maybe her father is just a little hot-headed, and will be totally cool when he meets you and likes all the bands/sports/beers you like. Only you will know whether any of these are true. But don't create a blog justifying something that is obviously not widely understood or accepted (thus, the drama) and then have a go at someone that tries to tell you, "ehh, outlook is not great."
On November 26 2011 10:41 LaSt)ChAnCe wrote: why is everyone assuming that the OP is planning to marry this chick? what's wrong with dating for a while and seeing how it works out?
it's probably not illegal for them to have sex, he's not trying to get her to move in with him, and this adult shit doesn't apply
go for it and have fun - it's not creepy (maybe it is a bad choice, but it's not really creepy) - i have a feeling that the guys saying it's creepy have had girls they like fall for older dudes and harbor a subconscious distaste of girls being with older guys (jealousy)
No, I dislike the concept of sleeping with a girl that isn't A) fully developed mentally B) fully developed physically
It's all a big joke to me, the OP is the stereotypical guy that can't find someone his own age, so he takes advantage of the youth.
You're cute. I feel sorry for the women you date. I also feel kind of sorry for your brain.
You're dating a 16 year old girl. Sucks to be you. I date women. Would you like for me to prove that to you? I bet she's a virgin and your creepy ass wants to pop that cherry.
On November 26 2011 09:49 ranshaked wrote: I posted your question on another forum an all the responses say you've got an issue. SPecifically a maturity issue
I don't think it would be difficult to find a large number of people who would agree that you have a maturity issue.
Dude. There's a gap between you and her. It's just not right. Think about it for a second. You're dating someone in high school. I don't mean to sound rude but it's creepy and wrong
Mind telling me how old you are?
22. I wouldn't date anyone under 21. I prefer older women.
Ok I didn't ask for your preference on women, which don't get me wrong, is absolutely fascinating, but you're telling me that at 22, if you met someone who was 17/18 that you completely fell for, and who felt the same way about you, you would simply step aside and not pursue that relationship? That would make for a sad little piece of your life story.
No because I'm an adult. I do adult things that a high schooler can't do. I pay bills and have a job. When you're in hs you aren't an adult. So either you're still not mature enough to accept adult hood or you're a creep.
Or you were an immature high school student, and are trying to prove something to yourself now after spending so many years acting foolishly. You're creating false dichotomies here and it's clear to me that your education wasn't the best available. Was it the school's fault or your own?
On November 26 2011 10:19 ABagOfFritos wrote:
On November 26 2011 10:11 Magrath wrote: Not worth it to be honest. Girls under the age of 22 are so flippy floppy with their emotions they don't know what they want. You have many years ahead of you to find a girl your age.
It isn't really your place to tell me whether it's worth it or not. I understand your point completely, but it should also be pointed out that it's a severely unfair generalization to say this about girls of a certain age in general.
You come to TL asking advice ("What do, TL" at the end of your post) and then anything that advises you to go against what you've already decided to do is immediately attacked? Ranshaked makes a great point; she is in highschool, you're not. Your lives are fundamentally different, and she doesn't understand what it's like to be an adult (although, based on your posting neither do you). Also, you equivocating the difference in age between 16-20 as the same as 18-22 is laughable. If you were 16 and this girl were 12 would that be acceptable to you?
The majority of the posts I've seen have told you that it probably won't work out and that you should move on. And you really should. It's pretty selfish to not. She's 16, she lives with her dad; when I lived with my parents they paid for everything I had, even after I got a part time job in highschool to help pay for gas. Her father controls her whole life, just by what he decides to pay for. What happens when her father just decides to stop paying for her car insurance, or her cellphone, or doesn't let her use the internet after like 7:00PM? Will you, her boyfriend, provide her with all these things? Doubtful. She isn't prepared for the consequences of this relationship and neither are you, so I'm gonna have to agree with the advice (which you asked for) of the majority of posts in this thread... just move on.
I haven't disregarded the advice of moving on, I've disregarded stupid posts. There is a difference. I'm going to try to look past all of the "subtle" insults you've worked into this post and respond. I didn't make the comparisons you've mentioned about shifting ages around, that to me is irrelevant, as far as I'm concerned, my specific situation is perfectly legal, and therefore there is no good reason for her father to keep us apart. The rest of your post is basically "her dad owns her for now, you can buy her later" so when I see posts like this (which is a majority of the posts advising me to back off) I do have a hard time taking them seriously. Rather than thinking of it as a 20 year old wanting to share his life with a 16 year old, you've treated it as a 20 year old asking a 16 year old's father to pass the torch so he can take over for him in paying for this financial burden. If someone wants to advise me to back off and give a reason for it that is actually good, then I would strongly consider the advice, as I've already been given some good reasons to back off and I'm not just going to toss them aside.
God damn it man. The reason people are telling you to back of is because the father is not one bit pleased with the situation and is willing to remove her from the school, the school which you attend, the school where your VP is aware. That's the drama. We're mostly (fucking ranshaked and his cougar fetish) giving you the benefit of the doubt by assuming that you're not a total creep, she's not totally immature and the relationship has solid merits. The drama stems from the reaction of the people surround the relationship, not those in it. How in god's name do you think we know how to change the entire public opinion on this issue when there a glaringly uncomfortable stance has already been adopted.
On November 26 2011 09:32 Dali. wrote: You're definitely gonna get some major frowning upon by most people. Even though its only four years, there's a significant gap in the perceived maturity structure of society. She, 16, is in many ways classed as a non-adult, while you, 20, clearly are. As a result people just make the blanket (though often correct) disapproval of all such instances of the relationship. Sadly society's kneejerk is much stronger than any rational thought you could present. If you can wait it out, till she's finished high school you'll find much stronger acceptance.
No disrespect, but all those things are completely irrelevant when it comes to the topic of love. One should break through such artificial borders for love and through love. I am speaking from experience.
Biological adulthood (the beginnings of puberty, the ability to conceive) is not an equaliser. A 12 year old girl is not classed as equal to a 30 year old man. Perhaps two such parties could be in 'love' but the intellectual and cultural gap separating them is too large to be considered acceptable. Their is a reasonable necessity for relative levels of intellectual maturity to ensure a relationship is balanced equally between the two consenting parties. Our friend here inhabits a very different world to this girl. He is (presumably) self-sufficient, working and considering/undetaking higher education. The girl in highschool, and (presumably) very dependent on her parents for sustenance. I'm twenty and any sixteen year old girl I know (not really any) would likely be far too young. OP may have found a needle in the haystack, but his chances of convincing the father, assuming the father is anything less than a hyper-reasonable man, are pretty unlikely.
This post is retarded. First of all it's clear you didn't fully read the original post, since a lot of the details you've speculated upon are in there, and you got them wrong. Second of all you compared a situation between two people who meet the legal age of sexual consent to a situation where only one of them does by a long shot, and the other isn't even close. This comparison is completely ridiculous and does not apply.
Hey buddy I'm on your side. I don't think its necessarily wrong, I just think that its probably inappropriate to an extent. I read the OP, though I was specifically responding to the other guys post and in a manner where I was attempting to speak in generalities.
I'm surprised you're using age of consent as a measure of relationship legitimacy. How about a sixteen year old and a thirty year old? You don't think there's an inherent imbalance in that relationship. Hell, it appears to be potentially bordering on sugar daddy status. Again, not saying that there aren't legitimate 16-30 relationships, but they're few and far between. Now in your case ages are close, but like I said, right now there is (at least in my eyes) a substantial differences in your two situations (in the sense of maturity ascribed to both your positions in society), which is gonna make most people uncomfortable, her father most of all.
You said you don't care about other people's thoughts, only her fathers. Well good luck, cause he most likely feels far more uncomfortable than any one else you know, and you're gonna need to be the most standup guy he's meet to get him to warm to you.
I really don't understand what you're here asking for. "What do, TL?" We don't know, maybe she is astonishingly mature and intelligent for her age, maybe you truly are the most kind, innocent and honest guy in town, and maybe her father is just a little hot-headed, and will be totally cool when he meets you and likes all the bands/sports/beers you like. Only you will know whether any of these are true. But don't create a blog justifying something that is obviously not widely understood or accepted (thus, the drama) and then have a go at someone that tries to tell you, "ehh, outlook is not great."
Sorry, I just didn't like the post, there were a lot of poorly stated points in there. You're right about something here for sure though, and it's that I should clarify my stance on the legal issue. I don't care about legalities, but I understand that other people do, and this why I'm pointing it out. It's also at the core of her father's argument, he says the relationship is illegal, when it very clearly isn't. This breaks down the rational side of his argument, leaving us to try and convince him otherwise on the more irrational side of things. Things like his assumptions about what kind of guy I must be and my intentions with his daughter. What I'm asking for is for people to say whatever they want, I more than expected people to disapprove so I'm not surprised by any of this, but I'm not going to agree with those people when they give me the reasons they've given, anyone with a semi-rational mind can see that the justifications given in some of these posts are absolutely outrageous. And where I was more than ready to see the disapproval, these people should be more than ready for me to disagree with them, strongly at times as well.
I'm going to second the more mature advice given on this forum, and say that in the end, you know best. If your intentions towards this girl are truly well-meant, then good luck and go for it. It will be difficult. Others have pointed obvious barriers such as a difference in culture and the disapproval of society. However, if you are able to overcome them than that is something to be proud of. As long as you both behave responsibly and respectfully, there is nothing to lose here but much to be potentially gained.
I don't want to give you a false sense of hope: things will be unbelievably difficult, but I applaud you for trying, wish you luck, and urge you to ignore all the immature haters and keep us posted!
On November 26 2011 10:41 LaSt)ChAnCe wrote: why is everyone assuming that the OP is planning to marry this chick? what's wrong with dating for a while and seeing how it works out?
it's probably not illegal for them to have sex, he's not trying to get her to move in with him, and this adult shit doesn't apply
go for it and have fun - it's not creepy (maybe it is a bad choice, but it's not really creepy) - i have a feeling that the guys saying it's creepy have had girls they like fall for older dudes and harbor a subconscious distaste of girls being with older guys (jealousy)
No, I dislike the concept of sleeping with a girl that isn't A) fully developed mentally B) fully developed physically
It's all a big joke to me, the OP is the stereotypical guy that can't find someone his own age, so he takes advantage of the youth.
You have quite clearly stated your opinion and your point is clear. It's about time though that you just let things drop. You're being unnecessarily rude and judgmental, and it is wrong of you to force your opinions and values on someone else, especially in a situation which you do not fully understand. At this point, your comments are more inflammatory than constructive. Have a good day, and relax a bit :D.
You can go and talk to her father about it and ask him to give you a fair chance, but if he won't listen, it is selfish or naive to continue pursuing her. Her father is upset enough over this to pull her out of school? Why turn this poor girl's life upside down over this? Her parents still have enormous control over her life, and she is ultimately the one that will end up suffering the consequences of it. For her own sake I hope she gets over you if her father continues his current line of thought.
I Think a good course of action is to let it play out and see what she herself decides, talk to her about what she wants first if you do something like push her to leave this school and she does but later on she may regret it and despise you because you forced it on her, let her decide and go with that.
As for the parents you can only do your best you have already tried to talk to them, I think one of the best things to do is leave them a message to talk if they want to then just don't try to get in contact with them, the way some older people think these days is if you try to reason with them to hard they will think your just trying to hard for your own ends. However your situation will never be the same as anyone else's so you can only do your best and not all the answers people give you here will work the same for you as they did for everyone else just remember that and trust your own judgement.
I can tell how you feel though in high school I was fifteen and met a girl that was nineteen and we got together, her parents tried to tell her she was being stupid cause I was only "a child" and as for anyone in this blog saying "everyone" around the age of 16 is this or that... I just ask what? somehow people forget once they get over 20 or so just how smart and capable they were when they were 16 or 15, some advice your IQ does not rise rapidly because of your age it does not matter if you are 15 or 25 you can still be mature and intelligent your life is what makes you mature, I might be the odd one out but I see very mature teenagers these days all the time and yes I also see other teenagers that are to stupid to be out of year six but I also see adults in mid 20's and 30's that are also just as stupid to generalise everyone of an age to being immature? good way to lose yourself an argument.
To OP my story ended better after I met her parents and they found out what kind of person I was they also fell in love with me and it was pretty good, however she had to move away to university and so we ended the relationship after a year in a good way because we both had to pursue different things, you also said she was going to be done in Jan or whenever and you will be there longer? have a think about if you both are aiming for the same things? and if the long term is plausible before moving ahead to much.
Nothing wrong with 20/16 if you guys like each other enough. Just do your own thing. Try to be aware of her dads feelings because they are very understandable. But after you've done all that you can there's nothing else you to do.
I mean 4 years isn't a bad gap it's just the ages you are looking at here. 16 is young and inexperienced and less mature 20 is more grown up and such it just doesn't seem to me like a relationship that a 16 year old foible understand or really be in. I personally think it's kinda creepy but I mean it's your call that's just my 2 cents.
Well, at her age, you have to understand and respect what the father is doing. He is worried about her daughter as she still has her future ahead of her. Granted, you don't automatically destroy that future just by being with her and we are not judging if you truly love each other or not.
I say, when it comes to this (at present), it would be difficult for her to deal with pressures from her family. Plus she may be mature for her age but that doesn't necessarily mean she has made a mature and well informed decision.
Keep in mind that whatever she may say now may not necessarily be what she will say in the future after the problems continue to pop up. I'm not saying this will happen but it is possible.
She is still "young" in the sense that she has yet to go through dips in her life, especially relating to a severe disapproval of her father (at present).
It may be really wise for you to wait it out until she ages a bit. It would be hard to wait and you would find it difficult to deny yourself being with her and vice versa. But if it's meant to be, it's meant to be.
She won't be 16/17/18 forever, and from that point, you can more or less know if the feeling is still mutual.
On November 26 2011 13:56 Azzur wrote: The "socially acceptable age gap" formula is this:
Socially acceptable age = (Your age / 2) + 7
In your case, (20 / 10) +7 = 17, so it's definitely on the creepy side. Anyways, I for-see that things are not going to go so well.
I also go by this formula, it's foolproof, even 17 would be pushing it. A 4 year age gap at your ages is huge, props to the dad for looking after his daughter.
I think it completely depends on the 2 people involved. I know some 16-17 year old are are more mature and informed then adults I know. I think you should just do whatever you think is right if you really care for her I'm sure her father will see that.
On November 26 2011 13:56 Azzur wrote: The "socially acceptable age gap" formula is this:
Socially acceptable age = (Your age / 2) + 7
In your case, (20 / 10) +7 = 17, so it's definitely on the creepy side. Anyways, I for-see that things are not going to go so well.
I also go by this formula, it's foolproof, even 17 would be pushing it. A 4 year age gap at your ages is huge, props to the dad for looking after his daughter.
Oh, also, note some ppl go with (age / 2) + 8, to be slightly more conservative
This arbitrary equation that people talk about is still the most ridiculous thing to be posted in this topic, and I can't believe anyone would seriously consider something like that. If you love someone that's all that matters when that someone is capable of loving you back. Thanks mostly to those of you just tossing out the confidence boosters, I think these will help me a lot when it comes down to making the phone call. As for those simply saying "it's creepy" well that simply isn't a good enough reason to give up on something.
On November 26 2011 13:56 Azzur wrote: The "socially acceptable age gap" formula is this:
Socially acceptable age = (Your age / 2) + 7
In your case, (20 / 10) +7 = 17, so it's definitely on the creepy side. Anyways, I for-see that things are not going to go so well.
I also go by this formula, it's foolproof, even 17 would be pushing it. A 4 year age gap at your ages is huge, props to the dad for looking after his daughter.
Oh, also, note some ppl go with (age / 2) + 8, to be slightly more conservative
By this logic, why don't I just say half plus six to be a tad more liberal? Ridiculous, unfounded and stupid is all I can say to this concept as a whole. Or is it simply more reasonable to be more conservative than liberal? Because there's a whole other conversation hiding in your words that would be necessary if you're going to subscribe to this mathematical bullshit cockblock. Not sure what else to call it.
On November 26 2011 13:56 Azzur wrote: The "socially acceptable age gap" formula is this:
Socially acceptable age = (Your age / 2) + 7
In your case, (20 / 10) +7 = 17, so it's definitely on the creepy side. Anyways, I for-see that things are not going to go so well.
I also go by this formula, it's foolproof, even 17 would be pushing it. A 4 year age gap at your ages is huge, props to the dad for looking after his daughter.
So that means a 2 year-old can go out with a 9 year-old? (2/20) + 8 = 9. Yes definitely sounds full-proof, no exceptions whatsoever.
On November 26 2011 13:56 Azzur wrote: The "socially acceptable age gap" formula is this:
Socially acceptable age = (Your age / 2) + 7
In your case, (20 / 10) +7 = 17, so it's definitely on the creepy side. Anyways, I for-see that things are not going to go so well.
I also go by this formula, it's foolproof, even 17 would be pushing it. A 4 year age gap at your ages is huge, props to the dad for looking after his daughter.
So that means a 2 year-old can go out with a 9 year-old? (2/20) + 8 = 9. Yes definitely sounds full-proof, no exceptions whatsoever.
The actual formula uses the older age, and it works pretty well at most ages.
On November 26 2011 13:56 Azzur wrote: The "socially acceptable age gap" formula is this:
Socially acceptable age = (Your age / 2) + 7
In your case, (20 / 10) +7 = 17, so it's definitely on the creepy side. Anyways, I for-see that things are not going to go so well.
I also go by this formula, it's foolproof, even 17 would be pushing it. A 4 year age gap at your ages is huge, props to the dad for looking after his daughter.
So that means a 2 year-old can go out with a 9 year-old? (2/20) + 8 = 9. Yes definitely sounds full-proof, no exceptions whatsoever.
The actual formula uses the older age, and it works pretty well at most ages.
On November 26 2011 13:56 Azzur wrote: The "socially acceptable age gap" formula is this:
Socially acceptable age = (Your age / 2) + 7
In your case, (20 / 10) +7 = 17, so it's definitely on the creepy side. Anyways, I for-see that things are not going to go so well.
I also go by this formula, it's foolproof, even 17 would be pushing it. A 4 year age gap at your ages is huge, props to the dad for looking after his daughter.
So that means a 2 year-old can go out with a 9 year-old? (2/20) + 8 = 9. Yes definitely sounds full-proof, no exceptions whatsoever.
The actual formula uses the older age, and it works pretty well at most ages.
Well yes I realize that but saying it is fullproof is a bit silly. You even say "it works pretty well at most ages". Just pointing out saying something is absolute in an argument, especially in a conversation about humans, is wrong most of the time.
On November 26 2011 10:11 Magrath wrote: Not worth it to be honest. Girls under the age of 22 are so flippy floppy with their emotions they don't know what they want. You have many years ahead of you to find a girl your age.
Let's cut the misogyny for a second. The issue at hand is not that all girls under 22 are emotionally unstable (the idea that males under 22 are conspicuously more emotionally well-developed is pretty funny actually). The issue is that the OP is a university dropout who is 20 years old and attends a high school, who is likely unable to attract a reasonably attractive and intelligent woman of approximately his own age due to his educational decisions/poor career prospects/lack of social skills (I'm inferring this through the statement "I'd never felt more comfortable with someone before" -- yes, the OP literally feels most comfortable around minors).
This is one of those situations where Occam's razor is a pretty good heuristic for analyzing the situation. What's more likely, that the OP is a perfectly normal guy and that his girlfriend is preternaturally mature and has made an informed, rational decision with regards to her feelings about the OP, or that the OP is a creepy older guy preying on emotionally vulnerable girls? Given what I read in the OP, I'm pretty sure I know which one sounds more likely...
On November 26 2011 10:11 Magrath wrote: Not worth it to be honest. Girls under the age of 22 are so flippy floppy with their emotions they don't know what they want. You have many years ahead of you to find a girl your age.
Let's cut the misogyny for a second. The issue at hand is not that all girls under 22 are emotionally unstable (the idea that males under 22 are conspicuously more emotionally well-developed is pretty funny actually). The issue is that the OP is a university dropout who is 20 years old and attends a high school, who is likely unable to attract a reasonably attractive and intelligent woman of approximately his own age due to his educational decisions/poor career prospects/lack of social skills (I'm inferring this through the statement "I'd never felt more comfortable with someone before" -- yes, the OP literally feels most comfortable around minors).
This is one of those situations where Occam's razor is a pretty good heuristic for analyzing the situation. What's more likely, that the OP is a perfectly normal guy and that his girlfriend is preternaturally mature and has made an informed, rational decision with regards to her feelings about the OP, or that the OP is a creepy older guy preying on emotionally vulnerable girls? Given what I read in the OP, I'm pretty sure I know which one sounds more likely...
Another who doesn't like reading or am I the one misinterpreting things here? I've already discussed my education and it's all in good order, the school I'm attending is both a highschool and recognized post-secondary institution (or in other words: a college.) Your own blatantly stated inference is quite ridiculous as well. She's my only friend under 19 and I'm perfectly comfortable around everyone who is a part of my social life. If this is an important detail for you then it may also interest you to know that I regularly go on camping trips with my dad and his friends (who range in age from late 20s to early 50s.) And I'm very comfortable with them as well. What I'm trying to say is that age shouldn't be such an issue, and at the same time is unfortunately the core of my problem. This has already been established and doesn't really need to be repeated with such fervor.
On November 26 2011 16:19 ReachTheSky wrote: ur 20 , she is 16. Chances are you 2 won't last anyway as you both have a shitload of growing up to do. Its not worth fighting for.
Whether or not it's worth it is up to me and her, and nobody else. This is not the area I'm looking for advice on.
On November 26 2011 16:19 ReachTheSky wrote: ur 20 , she is 16. Chances are you 2 won't last anyway as you both have a shitload of growing up to do. Its not worth fighting for.
Whether or not it's worth it is up to me and her, and nobody else. This is not the area I'm looking for advice on.
Well sir, I still say just wait a bit because I doubt you can change her dad's mind anytime soon. It at least gives the father more time to accept you two (in the future when she is a bit older than 16) and at the same time gives her a chance not to risk more for you and your relationship to come into fruition.
Doing something for love is undeniably worth the effort. But to risk everything for love is to much of a gamble, especially at her age.
Again, I do not question nor even plan to question what you two have with each other. I hope it resolves itself, but I really think the mature and logical way of putting it (without being too emotional) is to let her grow older to respect her dad's wishes as the dad's actions clearly amount to almost extreme rejection of the idea of her daughter being in a relationship with you. But I will not tell you cut off your friendship with her.
If the dad says no, then the dad says no. Nothing you can do about that.
I'd side with the dad on this one, personally, though I know you probably don't care nor do you want my opinion. No way in hell I'd let a 16 year old kid of either gender date a 20 year old of either gender. I am fine with age gaps of four years -- hell, I am perfectly fine with age gaps of 15+ years, as I know someone who met her future spouse when she was 11 and he was 29, and they are married and have kids now, and are a happy, happy family -- but when someone's at an age where he/she is not fully mentally nor physically developed and likely doesn't know what he/she wants, then ... no. It is far, far too easy for the 16 year old to be hurt and to be taken advantage of. The couple I mentioned above? Only started going out when she was 18+ (though I admittedly forget the exact age). And while some people might say that two years is not a big difference, there is a huge difference between 16 and 18, even just mentally.
I mean, gosh, if you really "love" her (I'm assuming), then wait two more years -- or get out and fall in "love" with someone else. What's wrong with just being her friend anyways? That said, it does seem as if her dad doesn't want to even let you two interact -- that is an issue, I feel -- but it's understandable, especially if you're putting the moves on her.
Thank you 17shpynx17 and babylon. You both mention waiting as a solution, and this is something I've considered quite a bit. Right now I'm waiting for next week to do anything else, including discussing this option with her, since it seems like next week will be the time we're forced to make some real decisions. I'm not ready to back off just yet though, not until I've had a hcance to talk to her dad. I'm staying confident that he'll come around if I can tell him a little about myself and my history. Not to mention my intentions and feelings about his daughter.
Hey fritos, dude just dont listen to all these haters telling you what to do or what not to do. Its your life and you seem to really like this girl. Age doesnt matter. Im 19 years old but please hear me out. If im reading correctly, you just want to be on good terms with her dad correct? You probobly know this already but im just going to say it. Her dad just isnt comfortable because your 20 and shes 16. I think your best bet is to be good friends with her until her dad gets more familiar with you. If you can't wait or dont want to be just a friend then you have to confront her dad. GL i wish u the best
As i understand it age of consent in Canada is 16 so i don't see any problems with this relationship at all. A four year gap between ages seems negligible and from my understanding is pretty common.
As an example i Know a couple who are separated by 6 years, the woman is now 20 and the man 26, they met when she was 18. I don't see how 18-24 is much different from 16-20 both women are still is high-school. To the people saying that the girl is not fully developed mentally and physically, I must say, the Age of consent in Canada (and New Zealand for that matter, where i live) would certainly NOT be 16 and would rather be 18 or more. If the Government (which was voted in by the people) deems that it is fine for the two of them to have sex I don't see why it should be weird for them to have a relationship. Or would you all rather they just had some kind of one night stand?
I agree with some of the earlier statements saying that you should try and talk with her father Alone, without the girl. That seems like the best way to at least get the dad to tolerate you :S
Just my two cents.
Oh and this is based on the assumption that the Op is actually living in Canada currently. IF not... well ignore me, unless you happen to be in New Zealand.
On November 26 2011 17:35 HeroUlyssess wrote: As i understand it age of consent in Canada is 16 so i don't see any problems with this relationship at all. A four year gap between ages seems negligible and from my understanding is pretty common.
As an example i Know a couple who are separated by 6 years, the woman is now 20 and the man 26, they met when she was 18. I don't see how 18-24 is much different from 16-20 both women are still is high-school. To the people saying that the girl is not fully developed mentally and physically, I must say, the Age of consent in Canada (and New Zealand for that matter, where i live) would certainly NOT be 16 and would rather be 18 or more. If the Government (which was voted in by the people) deems that it is fine for the two of them to have sex I don't see why it should be weird for them to have a relationship. Or would you all rather they just had some kind of one night stand?
I agree with some of the earlier statements saying that you should try and talk with her father Alone, without the girl. That seems like the best way to at least get the dad to tolerate you :S
Just my two cents.
Oh and this is based on the assumption that the Op is actually living in Canada currently. IF not... well ignore me, unless you happen to be in New Zealand.
Yes I'm in Canada and yes your understanding of the age of consent here is correct. With all of these comparisons being made I forgot about one that I can mention as well. A friend of mine (she's my age) has been with her current boyfriend since she was 15, at which point he was 27. These relationships can and do work more often than some of you guys seem to realize.
On November 26 2011 17:35 HeroUlyssess wrote: As i understand it age of consent in Canada is 16 so i don't see any problems with this relationship at all. A four year gap between ages seems negligible and from my understanding is pretty common.
As an example i Know a couple who are separated by 6 years, the woman is now 20 and the man 26, they met when she was 18. I don't see how 18-24 is much different from 16-20 both women are still is high-school. To the people saying that the girl is not fully developed mentally and physically, I must say, the Age of consent in Canada (and New Zealand for that matter, where i live) would certainly NOT be 16 and would rather be 18 or more. If the Government (which was voted in by the people) deems that it is fine for the two of them to have sex I don't see why it should be weird for them to have a relationship. Or would you all rather they just had some kind of one night stand?
I agree with some of the earlier statements saying that you should try and talk with her father Alone, without the girl. That seems like the best way to at least get the dad to tolerate you :S
Just my two cents.
Oh and this is based on the assumption that the Op is actually living in Canada currently. IF not... well ignore me, unless you happen to be in New Zealand.
Yes I'm in Canada and yes your understanding of the age of consent here is correct. With all of these comparisons being made I forgot about one that I can mention as well. A friend of mine (she's my age) has been with her current boyfriend since she was 15, at which point he was 27. These relationships can and do work more often than some of you guys seem to realize.
For clarification sake though, with regards to your female friend who was 15 at the time, did her parents also object? If yes, was it as actively as this one?
Again, it at least gives you a view on how someone you know on what they went through or experienced, not just for your sake but also for the girl that you can also consider in terms of "weight"/"gravity" in her life.
I talked to my ex's parents before in sort of confronting the issues they were worried about (although only the dad coz the mum never really wanted to talk to me). (also it wasn't an age issue but rather they wanted someone better for their daughter). The dad was at least accommodating to hear me out, but they still didn't change their mind although they knew/felt my heart was in the right place. Just know that it is still possible even after talking with the dad/parents that they still wouldn't change their mind at that point in time, although they will at least see your sincerity which gives them something to think about.
On November 26 2011 17:35 HeroUlyssess wrote: As i understand it age of consent in Canada is 16 so i don't see any problems with this relationship at all. A four year gap between ages seems negligible and from my understanding is pretty common.
As an example i Know a couple who are separated by 6 years, the woman is now 20 and the man 26, they met when she was 18. I don't see how 18-24 is much different from 16-20 both women are still is high-school. To the people saying that the girl is not fully developed mentally and physically, I must say, the Age of consent in Canada (and New Zealand for that matter, where i live) would certainly NOT be 16 and would rather be 18 or more. If the Government (which was voted in by the people) deems that it is fine for the two of them to have sex I don't see why it should be weird for them to have a relationship. Or would you all rather they just had some kind of one night stand?
I agree with some of the earlier statements saying that you should try and talk with her father Alone, without the girl. That seems like the best way to at least get the dad to tolerate you :S
Just my two cents.
Oh and this is based on the assumption that the Op is actually living in Canada currently. IF not... well ignore me, unless you happen to be in New Zealand.
Yes I'm in Canada and yes your understanding of the age of consent here is correct. With all of these comparisons being made I forgot about one that I can mention as well. A friend of mine (she's my age) has been with her current boyfriend since she was 15, at which point he was 27. These relationships can and do work more often than some of you guys seem to realize.
For clarification sake though, with regards to your female friend who was 15 at the time, did her parents also object? If yes, was it as actively as this one?
Again, it at least gives you a view on how someone you know on what they went through or experienced, not just for your sake but also for the girl that you can also consider in terms of "weight"/"gravity" in her life.
I talked to my ex's parents before in sort of confronting the issues they were worried about (although only the dad coz the mum never really wanted to talk to me). (also it wasn't an age issue but rather they wanted someone better for their daughter). The dad was at least accommodating to hear me out, but they still didn't change their mind although they knew/felt my heart was in the right place. Just know that it is still possible even after talking with the dad/parents that they still wouldn't change their mind at that point in time, although they will at least see your sincerity which gives them something to think about.
Cheers!
I really couldn't tell you much about how things went for them, I haven't spoken to her in over a year and never knew much about the personal side of her relationship. If I somehow had a chance to talk to her I definitely would though. And as far as the chance that the parents might not sway is a chance I'm willing to take. I have nothing left to lose at this point.
On November 26 2011 18:14 ETisME wrote: I would give up because you two are still young. Much better than risking her future
This is the most difficult option to consider. I'm absolutely crazy about this girl and extremely confident that she feels the same way. Simply giving up on something that never even had a chance to develop would crush me for sure, probably both of us.
On November 26 2011 17:35 HeroUlyssess wrote: As i understand it age of consent in Canada is 16 so i don't see any problems with this relationship at all. A four year gap between ages seems negligible and from my understanding is pretty common.
As an example i Know a couple who are separated by 6 years, the woman is now 20 and the man 26, they met when she was 18. I don't see how 18-24 is much different from 16-20 both women are still is high-school. To the people saying that the girl is not fully developed mentally and physically, I must say, the Age of consent in Canada (and New Zealand for that matter, where i live) would certainly NOT be 16 and would rather be 18 or more. If the Government (which was voted in by the people) deems that it is fine for the two of them to have sex I don't see why it should be weird for them to have a relationship. Or would you all rather they just had some kind of one night stand?
I agree with some of the earlier statements saying that you should try and talk with her father Alone, without the girl. That seems like the best way to at least get the dad to tolerate you :S
Just my two cents.
Oh and this is based on the assumption that the Op is actually living in Canada currently. IF not... well ignore me, unless you happen to be in New Zealand.
Yes I'm in Canada and yes your understanding of the age of consent here is correct. With all of these comparisons being made I forgot about one that I can mention as well. A friend of mine (she's my age) has been with her current boyfriend since she was 15, at which point he was 27. These relationships can and do work more often than some of you guys seem to realize.
For clarification sake though, with regards to your female friend who was 15 at the time, did her parents also object? If yes, was it as actively as this one?
Again, it at least gives you a view on how someone you know on what they went through or experienced, not just for your sake but also for the girl that you can also consider in terms of "weight"/"gravity" in her life.
I talked to my ex's parents before in sort of confronting the issues they were worried about (although only the dad coz the mum never really wanted to talk to me). (also it wasn't an age issue but rather they wanted someone better for their daughter). The dad was at least accommodating to hear me out, but they still didn't change their mind although they knew/felt my heart was in the right place. Just know that it is still possible even after talking with the dad/parents that they still wouldn't change their mind at that point in time, although they will at least see your sincerity which gives them something to think about.
Cheers!
I really couldn't tell you much about how things went for them, I haven't spoken to her in over a year and never knew much about the personal side of her relationship. If I somehow had a chance to talk to her I definitely would though. And as far as the chance that the parents might not sway is a chance I'm willing to take. I have nothing left to lose at this point.
No sir. Not telling you to tell us the detail. What I mean by my statement is that her experience might give you an insight as to what the girl had to go through (if there was any parental objection).
As for talking with the dad. I agree, you should try to talk to him at least. Or if he really doesnt want to, then at least you try to try and talk even if it doesn't happen.
But if the outcome of the talk is not positive and there are still apprehensions from the dad regarding you two, then I would just advice you to wait for her to age a bit more. =) At least the "reasoning" of the parents that she is too young would no longer be valid. =)
So GL and whatever happens, keep a bright outlook in life. It is not the end of the world, although it would definitely feel like it if everything doesn't fall into place. But keep in mind, you can always stack it back up again after it crumbles and build yourself up. It's not the end, only a new beginning.
hahe what the hell, theres 3 years between me and my partner shes 30 ive just turned 28 and shell be 31 soon. Its like how old are all your parents compared? age means shit, generally most 16-20 year old girls in most cases are more mature then a LARGE majority of guys between the age of 16-24 if even that, I sitll havent grown up:D haha
Think it would be differnet if she was under age(obisouly) but cant see wat thit sguy has done wrong, its not like all these celebs who hare like 30 dating 18 year old hunks...
you can try talking to her father, problem is he comes accross as a douche bag, and yeh if I had a daughter I wouldnt let anyone go near her eithier :D Hes think straight away all you want is sex which may or may not be the case. I think hed probably react similar if you were 18,19 or even 21.
Find out stuff about her dad, what he likes, what his hobbies are, how he dresses.
Then go "dazzle" him.
EDIT: Also, if you're high rated, woldn't hurt sending him an e-mail of a ss of your ladder score. Proving that you're not a newb either, can't be bad.
On November 26 2011 20:06 ImDrizzt wrote: Find out stuff about her dad, what he likes, what his hobbies are, how he dresses.
Then go "dazzle" him.
EDIT: Also, if you're high rated, woldn't hurt sending him an e-mail of a ss of your ladder score. Proving that you're not a newb either, can't be bad.
Sadly I don't expect to place much higher than silver this season, and that's only if I ever get around to even doing so much as a placement match. As for the other advice, I happen to know we're both montreal canadiens fans, so I figured I'd try and work that in somehow to ease the tension, no idea how effective something like that would really be though...
I am in an honest mood, so I will give you my opinion with no sugarcoating.
I think that there is nothing inherently and blatantly wrong with the 16-20 scenario, and all in all I pretty much agree with Nazgul. When I was in high school I knew and was friends with a few girls who had older boyfriends, one case was 17-30 and they worked pretty well untill she dumped him for cheating or something, (don't actually recall the exact reason anymore)
On the other hand my opinion is that a real and healthy relationship cannot happen without both parties being intellectual equals, or atleast close to it. These guys I knew back then, who could fall in love and would want to date a highschooler were in my opinion all very immature for their age, and I remember thinking: someone who I can talk to like an equal when I'm 17 and they are 21,23 or 30, is not someone I would like to grow up to be like. Back then it seemed an equivalent with me at 17 dating a 14yearold or something, which was (and still is) to me, unthinkable. Not because of some arbitrary formula or because it's not deemed socially acceptable or whatever, but because I knew what I was like at 14, and what the girls were like, and what they talked about and what they thought about at that age, and to my mind 14-17, or for that matter 16-20, 17-21 or 17-30, are completely different intellectual worlds, in almost every respect.
Another point would be that girls from the age of 13-18 or so, when they start to develop an interest in the opposite sex, can act a lot more mature than they really are, simply because relationships generaly weigh heavily on their minds at that time, and having a boyfriend is frequently a priority, and having an older boyfriend makes them feel good about themselves. They are not really looking for a life-partner at that age, but essentially exploring. While there are cases where such relationships can work longterm, they are exceedingly rare.
So I guess my point is, if you think you and this girl are equals in every way that matters, go for it, although in my experience this "thing" with you, for her is not a long-term thing, even if she thinks it is now.
My second point is that you're probably not a guy I could like in real life, or could harbor a lot of respect for.
As for specific advice what to do right now, there is none to be given, since every one of us posters is operating with extremely limited information, and you're in a far better situation to judge what to do than us, so if I were you, I would not base my actions in the following few days on anything anyone has to say here, It's up to you to think it through, and do what you think is best (that's pretty much all anyone can do, and does, at any time)
Good luck, if it works out I hope you two share lots of happy moments which you will remember fondly for the rest of your life, and if it doesn't, I hope it all resolves with as little suffering as possible for everyone concerned.
On November 26 2011 21:13 Myrkul wrote: I am in an honest mood, so I will give you my opinion with no sugarcoating.
I think that there is nothing inherently and blatantly wrong with the 16-20 scenario, and all in all I pretty much agree with Nazgul. When I was in high school I knew and was friends with a few girls who had older boyfriends, one case was 17-30 and they worked pretty well untill she dumped him for cheating or something, (don't actually recall the exact reason anymore)
On the other hand my opinion is that a real and healthy relationship cannot happen without both parties being intellectual equals, or atleast close to it. These guys I knew back then, who could fall in love and would want to date a highschooler were in my opinion all very immature for their age, and I remember thinking: someone who I can talk to like an equal when I'm 17 and they are 21,23 or 30, is not someone I would like to grow up to be like. Back then it seemed an equivalent with me at 17 dating a 14yearold or something, which was (and still is) to me, unthinkable. Not because of some arbitrary formula or because it's not deemed socially acceptable or whatever, but because I knew what I was like at 14, and what the girls were like, and what they talked about and what they thought about at that age, and to my mind 14-17, or for that matter 16-20, 17-21 or 17-30, are completely different intellectual worlds, in almost every respect.
Another point would be that girls from the age of 13-18 or so, when they start to develop an interest in the opposite sex, can act a lot more mature than they really are, simply because relationships generaly weigh heavily on their minds at that time, and having a boyfriend is frequently a priority, and having an older boyfriend makes them feel good about themselves. They are not really looking for a life-partner at that age, but essentially exploring. While there are cases where such relationships can work longterm, they are exceedingly rare.
So I guess my point is, if you think you and this girl are equals in every way that matters, go for it, although in my experience this "thing" with you, for her is not a long-term thing, even if she thinks it is now.
My second point is that you're probably not a guy I could like in real life, or could harbor a lot of respect for.
As for specific advice what to do right now, there is none to be given, since every one of us posters is operating with extremely limited information, and you're in a far better situation to judge what to do than us, so if I were you, I would not base my actions in the following few days on anything anyone has to say here, It's up to you to think it through, and do what you think is best (that's pretty much all anyone can do, and does, at any time)
Good luck, if it works out I hope you two share lots of happy moments which you will remember fondly for the rest of your life, and if it doesn't, I hope it all resolves with as little suffering as possible for everyone concerned.
I realize it might not last forever, I'm looking at the present while placing the future slightly to the side so I don't get ahead of myself. It's definitely on my mind (my future, that is) and I definitely would say I hope it does last, but all I want is for us to have the chance to see for ourselves if it does, rather than have others decide for us that it isn't right or that it won't work out anyway. It should be for us to find out, not for others to predict.
It should be pointed out that your opinion of me is completely irrelevant and an unnecessary part of your post, and only served to diminish what you've said here. Ad hominem has no place in any discussion.
On November 26 2011 21:13 Myrkul wrote: I am in an honest mood, so I will give you my opinion with no sugarcoating.
I think that there is nothing inherently and blatantly wrong with the 16-20 scenario, and all in all I pretty much agree with Nazgul. When I was in high school I knew and was friends with a few girls who had older boyfriends, one case was 17-30 and they worked pretty well untill she dumped him for cheating or something, (don't actually recall the exact reason anymore)
On the other hand my opinion is that a real and healthy relationship cannot happen without both parties being intellectual equals, or atleast close to it. These guys I knew back then, who could fall in love and would want to date a highschooler were in my opinion all very immature for their age, and I remember thinking: someone who I can talk to like an equal when I'm 17 and they are 21,23 or 30, is not someone I would like to grow up to be like. Back then it seemed an equivalent with me at 17 dating a 14yearold or something, which was (and still is) to me, unthinkable. Not because of some arbitrary formula or because it's not deemed socially acceptable or whatever, but because I knew what I was like at 14, and what the girls were like, and what they talked about and what they thought about at that age, and to my mind 14-17, or for that matter 16-20, 17-21 or 17-30, are completely different intellectual worlds, in almost every respect.
Another point would be that girls from the age of 13-18 or so, when they start to develop an interest in the opposite sex, can act a lot more mature than they really are, simply because relationships generaly weigh heavily on their minds at that time, and having a boyfriend is frequently a priority, and having an older boyfriend makes them feel good about themselves. They are not really looking for a life-partner at that age, but essentially exploring. While there are cases where such relationships can work longterm, they are exceedingly rare.
So I guess my point is, if you think you and this girl are equals in every way that matters, go for it, although in my experience this "thing" with you, for her is not a long-term thing, even if she thinks it is now.
My second point is that you're probably not a guy I could like in real life, or could harbor a lot of respect for.
As for specific advice what to do right now, there is none to be given, since every one of us posters is operating with extremely limited information, and you're in a far better situation to judge what to do than us, so if I were you, I would not base my actions in the following few days on anything anyone has to say here, It's up to you to think it through, and do what you think is best (that's pretty much all anyone can do, and does, at any time)
Good luck, if it works out I hope you two share lots of happy moments which you will remember fondly for the rest of your life, and if it doesn't, I hope it all resolves with as little suffering as possible for everyone concerned.
I realize it might not last forever, I'm looking at the present while placing the future slightly to the side so I don't get ahead of myself. It's definitely on my mind (my future, that is) and I definitely would say I hope it does last, but all I want is for us to have the chance to see for ourselves if it does, rather than have others decide for us that it isn't right or that it won't work out anyway. It should be for us to find out, not for others to predict.
It should be pointed out that your opinion of me is completely irrelevant and an unnecessary part of your post, and only served to diminish what you've said here. Ad hominem has no place in any discussion.
This is not a discussion, you have not proposed a theory or argument nor anything of the sort, you simply described a situation, and asked others to comment on it. A comment is not a formal logical discussion. I didn't say I think your opinion is wrong because I don't like you, I simply stated that I don't like you, there is no fallacy here.
Prettty much the point of these forums is that a topic is brought up, and everyone writes down their current thought proccess on the subject, and this is exactly what I did. If you wanted people to not comment on the situation, but just limit themselves to advising you, your charge of irrelevancy would be applicable to 90% of the posts here. But you limited it to me, because you didn't like my comment, and wanted to retaliate while at the same time appearing very mature about it, which I guess is understandable. In fact the best example of irrelevancy in this thread I can find is your offtopic speculation as to the motives of those writing the "socially acceptable dating formula".
Anyway, I've already involved myself way more with this thread than I usually do, don't really know why I'm replying right now, I think it was your innacurate fallacy charge that brought me in the second time.
Bottom line is, you asked for a comment, I gave one, case closed, nobody says you have to like it.
On November 26 2011 21:13 Myrkul wrote: I am in an honest mood, so I will give you my opinion with no sugarcoating.
I think that there is nothing inherently and blatantly wrong with the 16-20 scenario, and all in all I pretty much agree with Nazgul. When I was in high school I knew and was friends with a few girls who had older boyfriends, one case was 17-30 and they worked pretty well untill she dumped him for cheating or something, (don't actually recall the exact reason anymore)
On the other hand my opinion is that a real and healthy relationship cannot happen without both parties being intellectual equals, or atleast close to it. These guys I knew back then, who could fall in love and would want to date a highschooler were in my opinion all very immature for their age, and I remember thinking: someone who I can talk to like an equal when I'm 17 and they are 21,23 or 30, is not someone I would like to grow up to be like. Back then it seemed an equivalent with me at 17 dating a 14yearold or something, which was (and still is) to me, unthinkable. Not because of some arbitrary formula or because it's not deemed socially acceptable or whatever, but because I knew what I was like at 14, and what the girls were like, and what they talked about and what they thought about at that age, and to my mind 14-17, or for that matter 16-20, 17-21 or 17-30, are completely different intellectual worlds, in almost every respect.
Another point would be that girls from the age of 13-18 or so, when they start to develop an interest in the opposite sex, can act a lot more mature than they really are, simply because relationships generaly weigh heavily on their minds at that time, and having a boyfriend is frequently a priority, and having an older boyfriend makes them feel good about themselves. They are not really looking for a life-partner at that age, but essentially exploring. While there are cases where such relationships can work longterm, they are exceedingly rare.
So I guess my point is, if you think you and this girl are equals in every way that matters, go for it, although in my experience this "thing" with you, for her is not a long-term thing, even if she thinks it is now.
My second point is that you're probably not a guy I could like in real life, or could harbor a lot of respect for.
As for specific advice what to do right now, there is none to be given, since every one of us posters is operating with extremely limited information, and you're in a far better situation to judge what to do than us, so if I were you, I would not base my actions in the following few days on anything anyone has to say here, It's up to you to think it through, and do what you think is best (that's pretty much all anyone can do, and does, at any time)
Good luck, if it works out I hope you two share lots of happy moments which you will remember fondly for the rest of your life, and if it doesn't, I hope it all resolves with as little suffering as possible for everyone concerned.
I realize it might not last forever, I'm looking at the present while placing the future slightly to the side so I don't get ahead of myself. It's definitely on my mind (my future, that is) and I definitely would say I hope it does last, but all I want is for us to have the chance to see for ourselves if it does, rather than have others decide for us that it isn't right or that it won't work out anyway. It should be for us to find out, not for others to predict.
It should be pointed out that your opinion of me is completely irrelevant and an unnecessary part of your post, and only served to diminish what you've said here. Ad hominem has no place in any discussion.
This is not a discussion, you have not proposed a theory or argument nor anything of the sort, you simply described a situation, and asked others to comment on it. A comment is not a formal logical discussion. I didn't say I think your opinion is wrong because I don't like you, I simply stated that I don't like you, there is no fallacy here.
Prettty much the point of these forums is that a topic is brought up, and everyone writes down their current thought proccess on the subject, and this is exactly what I did. If you wanted people to not comment on the situation, but just limit themselves to advising you, your charge of irrelevancy would be applicable to 90% of the posts here. But you limited it to me, because you didn't like my comment, and wanted to retaliate while at the same time appearing very mature about it, which I guess is understandable. In fact the best example of irrelevancy in this thread I can find is your offtopic speculation as to the motives of those writing the "socially acceptable dating formula".
Anyway, I've already involved myself way more with this thread than I usually do, don't really know why I'm replying right now, I think it was your innacurate fallacy charge that brought me in the second time.
Bottom line is, you asked for a comment, I gave one, case closed, nobody says you have to like it.
I didn't say anything about it being fallacious, simply that it was unnecessary and served no purpose.
On November 27 2011 05:45 ABagOfFritos wrote: A thought occurred to me, and I'd like to just see what people think. I text her dad and ask "If I were to call, would you be willing to hear me out?"
Thoughts?
Depends on if her dad uses texting.
Kidding aside, I wouldn't do that except as a last resort sort of thing. It's way too easy just to type "no" and hit send in response to someone you don't really like and have that be the end of things. If you want to convince him, you'll need to have a face-to-face conversation, IMO. I'd ask her to try to convince her dad, personally, and if that doesn't work out, then I'd go for the "wait and see" route.
Editing to add that maybe the best way to go about this is to show him that you're not just a guy who wants to take advantage of his sixteen year old daughter. If you wait two years and maybe just keep contact with her through other means -- like email/texting/etc. -- maybe that'll convince him. Two years is a bit of a long time, but if you're willing to wait, then that might be the best way to go about convincing him that you're not just looking for a fling.
This is so Romeo-and-Juliet-esque that I'm really intrigued by this story.
I have no insight to give, for I was never in a situation similar to this, but I wanted to wish you the best of luck. When everything works out, it will be a story you'll tell your kids some day.
Please don't let it take 7 seasons, though. That's just obnoxious.
Tentative conclusion. We're gonna wait. We both know things can change, for better or for worse, and we've both decided that for now, we're willing to wait and see where life takes us. Thanks to everyone who was encouraging and supportive, even when I disagreed with your opinions.
My suggestion. Stay like a close friend with your girl at least for now, and after a years or two or three, if everything good, you still love her and she's too, then at least you try to convince her dad again.
16 years old girl tend to have short mind and miss understanding about love. When she said she love you? How is exactly a love term in her mind? Is it because she admire you? is it she adore you? is it because you're look so cool? is it because you're mature and give her sense of security? Is it because you're very trusty person? or other.
I'm not sure what is her mind regarding you, but take my advice. For now, stay with your girlfriend as a friend, or may be a "very close friend". But no more than that. You are in the most unfortunate position right now, if you can keep your level of relationship in the next two or three years, you're good to go. Because she will be 19 years old, considered already mature and her father got no reason to get in your way (unless you're leaving a permanent bad judgement to him, or because he's got ego about his position as mature person and a father. Trust me, some parent won't admit if they can be wrong on something that in their field of expertise)
When I was at high school, my uncle actually marrying 16-17 years old girl... I was like: "WTF?!?! This girl is at the same age like me. Ooooh uncle, you're so mess up... come on." (TBH, when I see her. My mind is on GTO Manga. "Damn it, having sex legally with cute young girl, it only happen in a Manga...! But now, it's going to happen in real life, fuck! I hate u, uncle...!" I got no girlfriend that time :D) How their relationship right now? Everything is good. But, I must admit, 17 years old cute girl as a wife probably only good with your "biological need", but very bad at how seeing harsh reality in her married life. And this problem do appear in their first several years life, because of this, she's causing several discomfort around their neighbor, and around our family relative (mostly, either she's just being clueless, un-mature, egoist, or just because their neighbor is just an asshole people)
Again, if you're serious about her. Stay as close friend is a best option for now. Until she's reaching her "mature age" (the age that your community think as mature), 19 years old is mature age (at least in my opinion). As a close friend, you can know her better and better, along with the time goes. You will know her personality, you will know how good she is and how bad she can be. After all of this, you still love her, and she still love you. It's the time to hit the jackpot -> Go to her Dad
Oh, when I said "Go to her Dad" I'm not suggesting to only talk about marriage, at least you can show him if both of you really worthed to be together as a couple
Your relationship would only end in marriage & children followed by divorce or depression anyways.
She's not a person yet, i'm not even sure you are. Let her experience the world and get a past before you plan your common future. If in a couple of years she can define herself only as a wife and mother (possibly with a job, but likely not one where she's stimulated), shit is gonna crash and burn. She's gonna want the life she never lived or accept that it's impossible and fall into depression. GG.
The system of young marriages is antiquated and rightly so. Today it's reserved for only the most trusting of couples who fall in love then travel the world and earn common experiences without paranoia of new experiences leading to the erosion of their relationship. Going straight from school into a townhouse in suburbia is a sure recipe for disaster.
Rofl at people who are saying it's creepy. You guys are completely out of your minds and have some messed up sense of artificial barriers. 4 year difference makes him a creep? Wow... I wonder if one of you guys is the father ^_^
Given that girls generally mature faster than boys and the fact they are both kids (yes, at 20 years old you're a kid just like a 16-year old) the age difference is practically non existent. I've seen 30-year olds date 19-year olds and make it work really well, some of them even got married. I guess your parents are exactly one year in between?
Comedy. And to the op, I sympathize with you. It's not like you guys are destined to be together or anything, but shit like this getting in the way of a nice little romance is always depressing. Good luck.
LOLOLOL at the equations, god some people in this world are weird.
So when a girl tell ur their age u got ok well 24 divided by 2 = 12 so + 10 that means 22, ok turn to girl sorry ur 1 year to young to date me.
Go for it nothing wrong with it, some girls are more mature than others, i know people at 16 that have a better head on their shoulder than people at 30.
On November 28 2011 00:38 Thrill wrote: Your relationship would only end in marriage & children followed by divorce or depression anyways.
She's not a person yet, i'm not even sure you are. Let her experience the world and get a past before you plan your common future. If in a couple of years she can define herself only as a wife and mother (possibly with a job, but likely not one where she's stimulated), shit is gonna crash and burn. She's gonna want the life she never lived or accept that it's impossible and fall into depression. GG.
The system of young marriages is antiquated and rightly so. Today it's reserved for only the most trusting of couples who fall in love then travel the world and earn common experiences without paranoia of new experiences leading to the erosion of their relationship. Going straight from school into a townhouse in suburbia is a sure recipe for disaster.
Your mindset is a real problem. The assumption that we're going to jump straight to making a family is exactly the assumption her father is making. All the two of us wanted was what any young and new couple wants: a chance to see if our relationship would work and become real. We were never given that chance. Her dad decided it was his role to make that decision for us. It all comes down to him being an absolute control freak who thinks that everyone is as stupid as he was when he was my age.
LOL, all the arguing. From my PoV and my own experiences 16 == 20 == 22 and I'd be hard pressed to say that unless you start a family it also == 30. Most women do tend to get a bit more stable closer to 30 but I've seen the opposite also. Found it quite funny that the 22 yo was telling the 20yo that 16yo is too young, since it's all the same. 18 may be voting age but it has nothing to do with adulthood, that comes way later. Way way later.
On November 28 2011 17:53 dakalro wrote: LOL, all the arguing. From my PoV and my own experiences 16 == 20 == 22 and I'd be hard pressed to say that unless you start a family it also == 30. Most women do tend to get a bit more stable closer to 30 but I've seen the opposite also. Found it quite funny that the 22 yo was telling the 20yo that 16yo is too young, since it's all the same. 18 may be voting age but it has nothing to do with adulthood, that comes way later. Way way later.
In some cases it can also come much earlier, I don't think we should forget that.
On November 26 2011 21:13 Myrkul wrote: I am in an honest mood, so I will give you my opinion with no sugarcoating.
I think that there is nothing inherently and blatantly wrong with the 16-20 scenario, and all in all I pretty much agree with Nazgul. When I was in high school I knew and was friends with a few girls who had older boyfriends, one case was 17-30 and they worked pretty well untill she dumped him for cheating or something, (don't actually recall the exact reason anymore)
On the other hand my opinion is that a real and healthy relationship cannot happen without both parties being intellectual equals, or atleast close to it. These guys I knew back then, who could fall in love and would want to date a highschooler were in my opinion all very immature for their age, and I remember thinking: someone who I can talk to like an equal when I'm 17 and they are 21,23 or 30, is not someone I would like to grow up to be like. Back then it seemed an equivalent with me at 17 dating a 14yearold or something, which was (and still is) to me, unthinkable. Not because of some arbitrary formula or because it's not deemed socially acceptable or whatever, but because I knew what I was like at 14, and what the girls were like, and what they talked about and what they thought about at that age, and to my mind 14-17, or for that matter 16-20, 17-21 or 17-30, are completely different intellectual worlds, in almost every respect.
Another point would be that girls from the age of 13-18 or so, when they start to develop an interest in the opposite sex, can act a lot more mature than they really are, simply because relationships generaly weigh heavily on their minds at that time, and having a boyfriend is frequently a priority, and having an older boyfriend makes them feel good about themselves. They are not really looking for a life-partner at that age, but essentially exploring. While there are cases where such relationships can work longterm, they are exceedingly rare.
So I guess my point is, if you think you and this girl are equals in every way that matters, go for it, although in my experience this "thing" with you, for her is not a long-term thing, even if she thinks it is now.
My second point is that you're probably not a guy I could like in real life, or could harbor a lot of respect for.
As for specific advice what to do right now, there is none to be given, since every one of us posters is operating with extremely limited information, and you're in a far better situation to judge what to do than us, so if I were you, I would not base my actions in the following few days on anything anyone has to say here, It's up to you to think it through, and do what you think is best (that's pretty much all anyone can do, and does, at any time)
Good luck, if it works out I hope you two share lots of happy moments which you will remember fondly for the rest of your life, and if it doesn't, I hope it all resolves with as little suffering as possible for everyone concerned.
I realize it might not last forever, I'm looking at the present while placing the future slightly to the side so I don't get ahead of myself. It's definitely on my mind (my future, that is) and I definitely would say I hope it does last, but all I want is for us to have the chance to see for ourselves if it does, rather than have others decide for us that it isn't right or that it won't work out anyway. It should be for us to find out, not for others to predict.
It should be pointed out that your opinion of me is completely irrelevant and an unnecessary part of your post, and only served to diminish what you've said here. Ad hominem has no place in any discussion.
This is not a discussion, you have not proposed a theory or argument nor anything of the sort, you simply described a situation, and asked others to comment on it. A comment is not a formal logical discussion. I didn't say I think your opinion is wrong because I don't like you, I simply stated that I don't like you, there is no fallacy here.
Prettty much the point of these forums is that a topic is brought up, and everyone writes down their current thought proccess on the subject, and this is exactly what I did. If you wanted people to not comment on the situation, but just limit themselves to advising you, your charge of irrelevancy would be applicable to 90% of the posts here. But you limited it to me, because you didn't like my comment, and wanted to retaliate while at the same time appearing very mature about it, which I guess is understandable. In fact the best example of irrelevancy in this thread I can find is your offtopic speculation as to the motives of those writing the "socially acceptable dating formula".
Anyway, I've already involved myself way more with this thread than I usually do, don't really know why I'm replying right now, I think it was your innacurate fallacy charge that brought me in the second time.
Bottom line is, you asked for a comment, I gave one, case closed, nobody says you have to like it.
I didn't say anything about it being fallacious, simply that it was unnecessary and served no purpose.
I really feel like insulting the crap out of you right now for not knowing what the big words you use actually mean, but I'll stick to just pointing the obvious. Ad hominem is the formal name of A LOGICAL FALLACY, in which someone negates a claim, or attacks an argument by attacking it's proponent on a personal level. Example: You are a thief and a liar, therefore your argument for the existence of God is worthless.
I struggle to see what you would even have in common with a 16 year old still in school at the age of 20.
Situation difference was actually what ended one of my relationships - I left schoool while she still had 2 years to go. I entered the workforce and the real world, and we suddenly had very little in common and very little to talk about, so we drifted apart.
On November 29 2011 19:06 Dhalphir wrote: I struggle to see what you would even have in common with a 16 year old still in school at the age of 20.
Situation difference was actually what ended one of my relationships - I left schoool while she still had 2 years to go. I entered the workforce and the real world, and we suddenly had very little in common and very little to talk about, so we drifted apart.
This kind of argument assumes that all relationships are the same.
On November 26 2011 21:13 Myrkul wrote: I am in an honest mood, so I will give you my opinion with no sugarcoating.
I think that there is nothing inherently and blatantly wrong with the 16-20 scenario, and all in all I pretty much agree with Nazgul. When I was in high school I knew and was friends with a few girls who had older boyfriends, one case was 17-30 and they worked pretty well untill she dumped him for cheating or something, (don't actually recall the exact reason anymore)
On the other hand my opinion is that a real and healthy relationship cannot happen without both parties being intellectual equals, or atleast close to it. These guys I knew back then, who could fall in love and would want to date a highschooler were in my opinion all very immature for their age, and I remember thinking: someone who I can talk to like an equal when I'm 17 and they are 21,23 or 30, is not someone I would like to grow up to be like. Back then it seemed an equivalent with me at 17 dating a 14yearold or something, which was (and still is) to me, unthinkable. Not because of some arbitrary formula or because it's not deemed socially acceptable or whatever, but because I knew what I was like at 14, and what the girls were like, and what they talked about and what they thought about at that age, and to my mind 14-17, or for that matter 16-20, 17-21 or 17-30, are completely different intellectual worlds, in almost every respect.
Another point would be that girls from the age of 13-18 or so, when they start to develop an interest in the opposite sex, can act a lot more mature than they really are, simply because relationships generaly weigh heavily on their minds at that time, and having a boyfriend is frequently a priority, and having an older boyfriend makes them feel good about themselves. They are not really looking for a life-partner at that age, but essentially exploring. While there are cases where such relationships can work longterm, they are exceedingly rare.
So I guess my point is, if you think you and this girl are equals in every way that matters, go for it, although in my experience this "thing" with you, for her is not a long-term thing, even if she thinks it is now.
My second point is that you're probably not a guy I could like in real life, or could harbor a lot of respect for.
As for specific advice what to do right now, there is none to be given, since every one of us posters is operating with extremely limited information, and you're in a far better situation to judge what to do than us, so if I were you, I would not base my actions in the following few days on anything anyone has to say here, It's up to you to think it through, and do what you think is best (that's pretty much all anyone can do, and does, at any time)
Good luck, if it works out I hope you two share lots of happy moments which you will remember fondly for the rest of your life, and if it doesn't, I hope it all resolves with as little suffering as possible for everyone concerned.
I realize it might not last forever, I'm looking at the present while placing the future slightly to the side so I don't get ahead of myself. It's definitely on my mind (my future, that is) and I definitely would say I hope it does last, but all I want is for us to have the chance to see for ourselves if it does, rather than have others decide for us that it isn't right or that it won't work out anyway. It should be for us to find out, not for others to predict.
It should be pointed out that your opinion of me is completely irrelevant and an unnecessary part of your post, and only served to diminish what you've said here. Ad hominem has no place in any discussion.
This is not a discussion, you have not proposed a theory or argument nor anything of the sort, you simply described a situation, and asked others to comment on it. A comment is not a formal logical discussion. I didn't say I think your opinion is wrong because I don't like you, I simply stated that I don't like you, there is no fallacy here.
Prettty much the point of these forums is that a topic is brought up, and everyone writes down their current thought proccess on the subject, and this is exactly what I did. If you wanted people to not comment on the situation, but just limit themselves to advising you, your charge of irrelevancy would be applicable to 90% of the posts here. But you limited it to me, because you didn't like my comment, and wanted to retaliate while at the same time appearing very mature about it, which I guess is understandable. In fact the best example of irrelevancy in this thread I can find is your offtopic speculation as to the motives of those writing the "socially acceptable dating formula".
Anyway, I've already involved myself way more with this thread than I usually do, don't really know why I'm replying right now, I think it was your innacurate fallacy charge that brought me in the second time.
Bottom line is, you asked for a comment, I gave one, case closed, nobody says you have to like it.
I didn't say anything about it being fallacious, simply that it was unnecessary and served no purpose.
I really feel like insulting the crap out of you right now for not knowing what the big words you use actually mean, but I'll stick to just pointing the obvious. Ad hominem is the formal name of A LOGICAL FALLACY, in which someone negates a claim, or attacks an argument by attacking it's proponent on a personal level. Example: You are a thief and a liar, therefore your argument for the existence of God is worthless.
Now please stop replying to my posts
Do you really think everything you just said is accurate? Sure it's on every list of logical fallacy, but that doesn't mean it only has to be a part of an argument, and it also doesn't mean it's ever necessary. For that matter, a lot of what you have said is fallacious, and when I said "I didn't say anything about it being fallacious" I was being truthful, I wasn't directly referring to anything being so, but that doesn't mean it wasn't. As for my words being used incorrectly, I see none. If you don't want me replying to your posts, maybe get the fuck out of my blog?
Lol, i don´t know what should be so wrong with 4 years different if they know what they do and are carefull. My first boyfriend was even 5 years older and i never regret it. I have 3 boys myself and never messed any of their relationships.
GL Fritos. Just expect the coffee meet with the dad to lead to something more between you and her daughter (so that at least any expectation about the outcome of the talk won't devastate you if in case it's not what you expected). Just think about it as him wanting to at least take the initiative to talk to you.
On November 30 2011 07:13 ABagOfFritos wrote: So it seems that this isn't over. Her dad texted me out of the blue today and asked if I wanted to go for coffee this week.
On November 30 2011 07:13 ABagOfFritos wrote: So it seems that this isn't over. Her dad texted me out of the blue today and asked if I wanted to go for coffee this week.
I don't think it's creepy. 16 isn't that young compared to 20, in other words, I think this relationship should end up like most other high-school flings. I do think it's wrong for her elders to straight up prohibit it though, she can make the choice, and if her heart gets broken it's a valuable life lesson.
Wow, I think I was simultaneously encouraging and discouraging. I say go for it, but take it slow with her young heart and don't make crazy promises you won't keep.
On November 30 2011 11:16 Mobius_1 wrote: I don't think it's creepy. 16 isn't that young compared to 20, in other words, I think this relationship should end up like most other high-school flings. I do think it's wrong for her elders to straight up prohibit it though, she can make the choice, and if her heart gets broken it's a valuable life lesson.
Wow, I think I was simultaneously encouraging and discouraging. I say go for it, but take it slow with her young heart and don't make crazy promises you won't keep.
This right here is all either of us wants right now. To give it a go and see what happens on our own terms.
On November 30 2011 20:09 waSh wrote: Wow... can understand the father. I wouldn't want any pedophile twisting the mind of my daughter.
You're a troll. The bad kind of troll, not the "yea annoying but somewhat funny and therefore tolerable" kind of troll, just the bad kind of troll.
@OP: A 20y/o dating a 16y/o is perfectly fine, and it should be in other countries, too. Don't worry about that.
I honestly think that this guy has just the typical father issues of "nobody touches my daughter!!" and stuff like that. If you can convince him that you're mature enough and even more mature than the usual guys your gf would hang out with, he might see you in a different light. Just talk to him like an adult and trustworthy person he will treat you like that.
On November 30 2011 20:09 waSh wrote: Wow... can understand the father. I wouldn't want any pedophile twisting the mind of my daughter.
You're a troll. The bad kind of troll, not the "yea annoying but somewhat funny and therefore tolerable" kind of troll, just the bad kind of troll.
@OP: A 20y/o dating a 16y/o is perfectly fine, and it should be in other countries, too. Don't worry about that.
I honestly think that this guy has just the typical father issues of "nobody touches my daughter!!" and stuff like that. If you can convince him that you're mature enough and even more mature than the usual guys your gf would hang out with, he might see you in a different light. Just talk to him like an adult and trustworthy person he will treat you like that.
This is what I'm hoping to do when I meet him for coffee this week, whenever that may happen. He's supposed to let me know today what the plans are but no word yet, and I'd rather not push him right now. Best to let him time this out on his own.
So finally an update for this, though it isn't much. After waiting for two weeks for this guy to tell me when we would meet, I finally just texted him myself to ask if it was happening. Will post if he responds.
I'd feel creeped out as fuck if someone my age was dating my 16 y/o sister. So I can't really blame the dad, I would've probably had the same reaction.
Im 21, when I was 20 I dated a girl that was 16, I live in Canada as well so there are no problems. Our families knew each other and we just started having feeling for each other. Don't let the fact shes 4 years younger bother you,though 16 20 is probably the max in terms of age difference, when shes 18 and your 22 no one would give a fuck. Anyway her parents didn't think it was a big deal, and we dated and I would start spending nights with her instead of my friends, and I hated her friends because of how immature they were lol and she couldn't get into bars and stuff so we never hung out with my friends. We spent a lot of one on one time because of this which was pretty good, younger girls are also really low maintenance. I broke it off after 3 months because of how much our parents got into since, since they knew each other it felt as if as they were in the relationship as well. Its crazy but we really don't consider how protective the parents are of high school girls, they want her to go to university so during exams I wasn't able to see her and I actually wasn't aloud to see her a few times because she was grounded... So yeah I figured that this cannot be a relationship if her parents have so much control over her, bad for us but hey they care for their children. I would definitely start something up with her again later in life.
Anyway the point im trying to make is that from experience I know that if you ever do get her fathers blessing, don't think that was the only problem, they will still be as protective of her even after you start dating and it really really is annoying and frustrating... And we cant use the im her boyfriend line to get through to them because shes not 18 and we don't have that right. Nothing you can do about it bro, the father is the man in her life until shes 18 we cant change nor should we try to.
Have you considered what happens when she fucks up in some way and her father grounds her and you not allowed to see her for a few weeks?
I agree with Dapierow. If you look at it, 18 and 22 nobody cares. But a girl that is 16 still has some growing up to do, just stay friends and wait it out. Her father can't control her forever.
On December 18 2011 14:28 RetroAspect wrote: Well, fritos? heard of him already?
I wish I could say I had updates, but no luck yet. Our holiday break just started too, so it's likely I won't see her for just over two weeks, though we definitely plan to try. I'm thinking one day next week I'll call the guy again, not much left to lose the way I see it.
You need to make a strong case with TL if you want to be able to convince her dad. If her dad is against dating in general, then really nothing you say would convince him. It would be up to her to show shes mature enough, and if he's ready to let her go (if this is the first relationship he's ever known about).
Placing bias aside, if you were trying to be a good parent, what would you do? The fact that you keep pressuring her father to meet with you shows that you are desperate for his daughter, and many things could be running through his mind. As a 20 year old, you should display some maturity, and basically you're acting like a 20 year old high schooler.
Show some respect for her father, because he does not know you, nor are you giving him incentive to know you. You're going into this relationship thinking that it might not last, while also saying how crazy you are for her...It honestly sounds like you just want to get into her pants. She, being young, is "crazy" for you like the feelings of most high school girls get. It's not too uncommon for high school guys to think that way, but since you're not in high school, it's going to come off as creepy.
I know your case sounds just like in some movie and you guys are "different," but at this rate, you're never going to have her father's blessing and it seems like you don't care. So why should he?
A vast majority 16 year old girls are immature... IMO if you're attracted by a girl that's almost a kid, you're probably a bit immature yourself and need to grow up intellectually. Don't fool yourself about "clicking" with young girls anyway, being an older man is an auto-win.
I have a car and money, I can go pick up high-school girls if I don't care about having actual meaningful interaction with them. I'm 22 and I have so much more knowledge than 99.9% of 16 year olds, they would just bore me to death. There's a reason why you should try to find someone around your age.
On November 30 2011 20:21 KeksX wrote:@OP: A 20y/o dating a 16y/o is perfectly fine, and it should be in other countries, too. Don't worry about that.
I'm just speculating here but hear me out. IMO, there are very few truly successful, serious and intelligent 20 year old men dating 16 year old girls because very few 16 year old girls are on that level intellectually. This is stuff that's acceptable in the crummiest trailer parks or whatever - where intelligence peaks when you're 13 anyway.
On December 24 2011 05:59 Djzapz wrote: A vast majority 16 year old girls are immature... IMO if you're attracted by a girl that's almost a kid, you're probably a bit immature yourself and need to grow up intellectually. Don't fool yourself about "clicking" with young girls anyway, being an older man is an auto-win.
I have a car and money, I can go pick up high-school girls if I don't care about having actual meaningful interaction with them. I'm 22 and I have so much more knowledge than 99.9% of 16 year olds, they would just bore me to death. There's a reason why you should try to find someone around your age.
On November 30 2011 20:21 KeksX wrote:@OP: A 20y/o dating a 16y/o is perfectly fine, and it should be in other countries, too. Don't worry about that.
I'm just speculating here but hear me out. IMO, there are very few truly successful, serious and intelligent 20 year old men dating 16 year old girls because very few 16 year old girls are on that level intellectually. This is stuff that's acceptable in the crummiest trailer parks or whatever - where intelligence peaks when you're 13 anyway.
Just because you can't connect with someone younger than you does not mean someone else can't either. Maturity level is far from the only thing to be considered when people are attracted to one another. I don't care how boring you might find a 16 year old, nor would I care how boring you might find a 30 year old.
On December 24 2011 05:59 Djzapz wrote: A vast majority 16 year old girls are immature... IMO if you're attracted by a girl that's almost a kid, you're probably a bit immature yourself and need to grow up intellectually. Don't fool yourself about "clicking" with young girls anyway, being an older man is an auto-win.
I have a car and money, I can go pick up high-school girls if I don't care about having actual meaningful interaction with them. I'm 22 and I have so much more knowledge than 99.9% of 16 year olds, they would just bore me to death. There's a reason why you should try to find someone around your age.
On November 30 2011 20:21 KeksX wrote:@OP: A 20y/o dating a 16y/o is perfectly fine, and it should be in other countries, too. Don't worry about that.
I'm just speculating here but hear me out. IMO, there are very few truly successful, serious and intelligent 20 year old men dating 16 year old girls because very few 16 year old girls are on that level intellectually. This is stuff that's acceptable in the crummiest trailer parks or whatever - where intelligence peaks when you're 13 anyway.
Just because you can't connect with someone younger than you does not mean someone else can't either. Maturity level is far from the only thing to be considered when people are attracted to one another. I don't care how boring you might find a 16 year old, nor would I care how boring you might find a 30 year old.
Couple of things. I never said I can't "connect" with a 16 year old. I can be friends with them, but I know I've got little to gain out of 16 year olds because they're not looking for the same thing as me, simply said. I can't connect them on a an emotional level and I think it's largely because I'm "too advanced", and I was when I was 20, like most 20 year olds are. After a few days with that gremlin, I'd feel the limits of that laughable high school education. I'm not saying that to be cocky - I'm not an exception here: you learn a lot in those 4 years she doesn't have.
I think the exception is when a man "connects" emotionally with a person who's a significantly earlier stage of their life - to me it suggests that if you're not outright attracted to little girls, you're shallow - and in your head, you're 16 in some ways.
And no I wouldn't think a 30 year old would be boring, quite the contrary - however I would question their motives of being with me. It's true - most people in their 30's are not attracted to people in their early 20's (well maybe sexually, but that's not the point here). If some 30 year old woman somehow "loved" me, I'm thinking she would almost certainly have very little education and she certainly wouldn't value intelligence, because if she did, she'd be better off looking after people her own age, people who she could have better discussions than I can. Even then, I think the difference between a 16 and 20 is bigger than the difference between 22 and 30 - like I said, those are big years, she stops being a girl and becomes a woman.
Then again, I know I give a lot of importance to the whole intellectual thing, and many people don't really weigh that in when they've got touchy-feely "love". I've got no real arguments, one might say - if two people "fall in love" and it doesn't occur that she simply can't keep up intellectually for another 2-3 years, then sure it works - but to me that's a hillbillies relationship based on fluffy rainbows and pandas. It'll work as long as both parties remain ignorant.
Now to make it clear, I'm thinking in terms of "average 20 year old man" and "average 16 year old girl". There are some super smart 16 year old girls who are smarter than me and 20 year old men who are dumber than a sack of rocks and belong with younger girls - at least intellectually.
I don't know you guys so I'm only making a general judgement - it's my opinion. Maybe if I met the both of you I'd be able to get myself a better "judgmental douchebag" perspective. I look back to my high school years thinking none of these girls cut it for me now, though they certainly did when I was a dumb 16 year old boy.
basically, you just wanted to hear TL tell you "go for it man!"
So go for it. Stalk her house and talk to her dad on the way to his car. Send him postcards. Go to his work do a powerpoint presentation on how your love is totally legit. Or just go behind their back. You arn't going to marry her, so why bother with her dad if he wont budge?
Obviously the reasonable thing to do is just wait it out til shes 18 and out of her parent's care. Lol what else can people tell you. Tbh i dont know how you can convince her dad when you can't even convince TL.
Apparently I missed the memo where it was decided that facing your problems head on and fighting for something or someone you love is the childish and immature way to live your life. Go figure. On another note, I really think it was pretty obvious from the start that I wasn't going to listen to anyone who told me to just give up. This was quite clearly a request for ideas or advice that can help me be with this girl, not a 'fight or flight' type of deal, but a 'how should I fight'. I don't run from things that are difficult or scary, maybe some of you have never cared about something enough to really fight for it, but I have many times, and this time it's something much more real to me, so of course I'm gonna go for it, and of course I'm not just going to fold.
If her parents says no, that's it. She's 16 and should (must) respect their wishes, and if you respect her you will do the same. If you push the issue you will create a lot of shit for both her and yourself. The adult thing to do is to back off. If she's interested she'll wait and vice versa.
I was once in your shoes, bro. Not with that difference of age, it was only 19 and 17. But still. What I did was waiting. Love doesn't care about time.
I'll say go for it. If you really like her, then do it. The fact that you actually took the time to sit down and talk to her father is commendable in itself.
Go for becoming close with the mother! Always a winner
EPT
Sucks to be you. I date women. Would you like for me to prove that to you? I bet she's a virgin and your creepy ass wants to pop that cherry. 
to generalise everyone of an age to being immature? good way to lose yourself an argument.
