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United States4991 Posts
On November 22 2011 16:24 Hurricane Sponge wrote:
I've been watching the replays over the last couple days, and enjoying them. I had a quick question (if you still check these comments), and I'd welcome the answer from anyone.
Why no reactors? It didn't seem like you were starved for gas, and conventional sentiment is that the hiccup in the production cycle is worth the resultant double production. Is it some crazy high-masters mathcraft that just building a new barracks is in some way more advantageous than reactoring an existing one (once you're on 2+ bases)?
Hey great to hear  .
I did try Reactors in a couple games. I think if you're going pure Marine, it's easier to just throw down more and more Raxes, and not worry about mining gas beyond what you need for upgrades. I didn't refine it too much, but theoretically once you have enough gas for stim/combat shield/armory/factory/+3/+3, you can just stop mining gas (plus whatever you want for planetaries, but I rarely used them). I preferred not having to deal with making reactors as it meant my flow of units was uninterrupted, and I didn't have to deal with gas / placing buildings so the addons don't block things.
On November 22 2011 15:38 enjoylol wrote:
You didn't happen to play someone named "Enjoy" did you?
I don't know, maybe? I don't recognize your name as being one of the players I played, but I'd probably only recognize it if there was something about the game that stuck in my mind (I played ~60 games while doing this, and I certainly don't remember everyone's name). Did you play a Terran named Lorelei?  . (I can't actually check because I'm not at home right now)
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Probably a better build order is one I often use in team games. Just make 7 barracks and attack when your supply is about 40 and rally everything to the attack.
Keep making mules and scvs as normal. And while you are attacking you can usually afford to expand off of it (because as marines are dead you save on depots)
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United States4991 Posts
On November 23 2011 07:25 SpoR wrote:
Probably a better build order is one I often use in team games. Just make 7 barracks and attack when your supply is about 40 and rally everything to the attack.
Keep making mules and scvs as normal. And while you are attacking you can usually afford to expand off of it (because as marines are dead you save on depots)
Did you miss the part where you're supposed to play a macro game or what? The point was to play it without just cheesing/all-ining...
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On November 23 2011 07:31 Insane wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2011 07:25 SpoR wrote:
Probably a better build order is one I often use in team games. Just make 7 barracks and attack when your supply is about 40 and rally everything to the attack.
Keep making mules and scvs as normal. And while you are attacking you can usually afford to expand off of it (because as marines are dead you save on depots) Did you miss the part where you're supposed to play a macro game or what? The point was to play it without just cheesing/all-ining...
Well to be fair anyone who loses outright to this here should just lose and not waste your time while you transition to midgame here. Did you miss the part where I said after you're rallying to the attack you make another CC?
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Rofl how do you deal with DTs if you're only allowed to make Marines? Also... Baneling mines must've been a pain haha
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This seems like it was a ton of fun, I might try it out, I haven't been playing that much in the last while. I used to do this in FFA games it just fast expand and rush for 3/3 marines asap. I will probably watch the replays over the next few days though. Thank you for the blog.
Did any of the Protoss give you troubles who went for the high templar tech instead of the robo tech?
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After watching all of the TvP's in the replay pack, he generally pushes out well before any templar play could become an issue (expanding to a third behind a mass marine attack as stim or Combat Shields finish). The protoss would have to seriously cut corners and rush to DT or Psi Storm to beat this timing.
Edit: Come to think of it, he builds missile turrets frequently if he is left guessing after the scout. He also has 3 orbitals by the time non-rushed DT's could possibly get out. I haven't watched all of his TvZ's, but I would assume the usual push timing hits before a reasonable burrow (baneling mine) timing finishes as well.
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Canada23833 Posts
On November 20 2011 11:31 Geovu wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2011 06:23 Insane wrote:
Why would you make Immortals against someone going pure mass Marine
-1 Immortal has virtually the same DPS against light as 2 stalkers (Technically slightly less b/c Immortal attack speed is 0.01 less than a Stalker, lol) -Immortals do not overkill as they have no projectile animation, which means practically speaking Immortals do more damage vs Marines because stalkers' projectile animation takes so freaking long. -200 hp vs 160 hp, meaning more of an Immortals overall health has 1 armor, which stops a lot of damage vs marines' low damage high rate of fire attacks. -3 supply vs 4 supply, iirc. So yeah they are basically less terrible vs marines than stalkers are. Obviously stalkers are awful against everything (lol lose to 3 marines wtf) but that is beside the point.
More Immortal implies fewer Colossi.
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United States4991 Posts
On November 23 2011 11:39 SpoR wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2011 07:31 Insane wrote:On November 23 2011 07:25 SpoR wrote:
Probably a better build order is one I often use in team games. Just make 7 barracks and attack when your supply is about 40 and rally everything to the attack.
Keep making mules and scvs as normal. And while you are attacking you can usually afford to expand off of it (because as marines are dead you save on depots) Did you miss the part where you're supposed to play a macro game or what? The point was to play it without just cheesing/all-ining... Well to be fair anyone who loses outright to this here should just lose and not waste your time while you transition to midgame here. Did you miss the part where I said after you're rallying to the attack you make another CC?
Are you seriously arguing that going 7 barracks off 1 base and sending all your marines and SCVS is a macro build because you make a CC at some point? I don't even know what to say to that. ROFL Seriously CharlieMurphy, never change.
On November 23 2011 20:58 mnck wrote:
Rofl how do you deal with DTs if you're only allowed to make Marines? Also... Baneling mines must've been a pain haha
Well, you can make Turrets; they're a building, not a unit. If you mean from the perspective of attacking, it's not really a big deal - you just save up a couple scans. I don't recall baneling landmines ever being an issue. A few people did try it, but not in a way that ever mattered. Yes, they would be annoying if someone actually did them (have to scan everywhere you go) but in practice very few (even high level) zergs use them very much.
On November 23 2011 23:54 Kralic wrote:
This seems like it was a ton of fun, I might try it out, I haven't been playing that much in the last while. I used to do this in FFA games it just fast expand and rush for 3/3 marines asap. I will probably watch the replays over the next few days though. Thank you for the blog.
Did any of the Protoss give you troubles who went for the high templar tech instead of the robo tech?
On November 24 2011 05:31 Hurricane Sponge wrote:
After watching all of the TvP's in the replay pack, he generally pushes out well before any templar play could become an issue (expanding to a third behind a mass marine attack as stim or Combat Shields finish). The protoss would have to seriously cut corners and rush to DT or Psi Storm to beat this timing.
Edit: Come to think of it, he builds missile turrets frequently if he is left guessing after the scout. He also has 3 orbitals by the time non-rushed DT's could possibly get out. I haven't watched all of his TvZ's, but I would assume the usual push timing hits before a reasonable burrow (baneling mine) timing finishes as well.
Yeah, pretty much this. Theoretically storm could be annoying, but in practice when you're playing against lower level players it requires them to have a sufficiently large army to not just evaporate to yours. It's a lot easier to achieve that with Colossi instead of HTs.
And yeah, I usually played pretty carefully with regards to things like DTs; I was deliberately not cutting corners in order to be safe as I was fine with going into the macro game w/o a totally optimal build. (Partially this is also me not realy being a Terran player, so I was less confident in my calls being accurate on what I felt my opponent was doing )
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well it's certainly not a micro all in cheese build
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Question - I know this is a grand experiment/bet on whether macro pure Marines works but would you considering dropping 2 Starports for mainly Medivacs and maybe Vikings for those pesky Colo? From what I'd imagine, it'd be an interesting follow up since it basically adds the bare minimum of additional units to supplement the Marine army while keeping the core concept behind Marine only intact. I get the impression burning only a bit more gas on Starport units could let you still get away with only 2-3 gas.
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EPT
