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On November 20 2011 13:18 AnachronisticAnarchy wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2011 12:34 Hidden_MotiveS wrote:On November 20 2011 11:31 Geovu wrote:On November 20 2011 06:23 Insane wrote:
Why would you make Immortals against someone going pure mass Marine
-1 Immortal has virtually the same DPS against light as 2 stalkers (Technically slightly less b/c Immortal attack speed is 0.01 less than a Stalker, lol) -Immortals do not overkill as they have no projectile animation, which means practically speaking Immortals do more damage vs Marines because stalkers' projectile animation takes so freaking long. -200 hp vs 160 hp, meaning more of an Immortals overall health has 1 armor, which stops a lot of damage vs marines' low damage high rate of fire attacks. -3 supply vs 4 supply, iirc. So yeah they are basically less terrible vs marines than stalkers are. Obviously stalkers are awful against everything (lol lose to 3 marines wtf) but that is beside the point. Yet you kinda have to make this crap unit if you want a chance of defending your natural since zealots will just get kited all day. Why are you guys missing the point of his statement of confusion on some guy making immortals against marines? He is saying that colossi are far more preferable to make, not that immortals are awful against pure marine (which they are, compared to colossi).
200/200, then 200/200 again for an upgrade while it takes several minutes to get out your single 300/200 unit is quite the investment when your opponent is constantly ramming mule-fueled drug addicts down your throat.
From what I could tell from that screenshot, if Toss had 1 collosus replacing a sentry and an immortal (maybe even a few more units) he would have still lost that battle, and that is ignoring any timing issues that might have arose.
PS I'm not trying to say going Collosus vs mass Marine is bad or anything lol, I'm just justifying why someone wouldn't in a certain circumstances.
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So I always lose to vileHawk on ladder. He always seems to be ready for my timings and is the only zerg I can never manage to beat. After getting an early disadvantage, I just decided to go nothing but pure, mass marines and medivacs. (There are a few marauders, but they're kind of insignificant in the game overall).
And it. Was. Glorious.
24min (ingame time) rep: http://drop.sc/61189
I love marines.
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I've done this before, just with medivacs. It's easy~~ lol
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United States4991 Posts
On November 20 2011 11:32 Mafs wrote:
What was your rank/mmr before doing this?
High master league. I'm not really a Terran player, more of a Random player.
e: oh well wait, to be clear the account I was doing it on had no MMR. I mean on my main account that's what I am.
On November 20 2011 14:12 Pokebunny wrote:So I always lose to vileHawk on ladder. He always seems to be ready for my timings and is the only zerg I can never manage to beat. After getting an early disadvantage, I just decided to go nothing but pure, mass marines and medivacs. (There are a few marauders, but they're kind of insignificant in the game overall). And it. Was. Glorious. 24min (ingame time) rep: http://drop.sc/61189I love marines.
Hooray :D. It's a bit cheating to get Medivacs though  . It helps quite a lot!
With regards to Immortals: I think they're still a bad deal... More forcefields/zealots/other things are better in my experience 
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Amusing read. Kinda silly people BM and whine the way they do, hopefully the tears of your opponents made the games all the sweeter.
As a Toss player I'll say that most Toss start building Immortals due to the inevitable massing of Marauders that 90% of PvT match ups see. Unless the opponent makes a pact to go Marine only, it's generally suicidal to overlook countering Marauders. Most Marine only pushes quickly swap to Marauders and rip through the Stalker heavy comp that usually counters pure marines.
As far as not building Colossi, it's a meta game thing. Most Tosses, including me, favor the Gateway heavy, Templar tech paths, than teching to Colo. That and even Tosses think the Colossi's a rather boring unit to use.
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Thanks so much for this! great read and replays and all!
It would be even cooler if you streamed while you played these, so you could save all the VODs, then edit it to go at like 16x speed and have us watch it on youtube lol.
I feel like trying this now, so I can focus on improving other aspects of the game and to practice marine micro.
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You're not the first one to do it, and it's not really even that impressive. Your one unit is good vs air, good in drops, good in bunkers, good with your main army, does a million DPS, has smart fire, can be split/stutter stepped quite easily, has two of the best unit upgrades in the game, and costs only 50 minerals. I'd be more impressed if you got to masters using only mass zerglings (and only 1 queen per hatchery, no mass queen shenanigans either), although when you watch Stephano play there is no doubt that it is possible. If you can get to masters making only zealots I'd be impressed.
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United States4991 Posts
On November 22 2011 08:57 synkronized wrote:
Amusing read. Kinda silly people BM and whine the way they do, hopefully the tears of your opponents made the games all the sweeter.
As a Toss player I'll say that most Toss start building Immortals due to the inevitable massing of Marauders that 90% of PvT match ups see. Unless the opponent makes a pact to go Marine only, it's generally suicidal to overlook countering Marauders. Most Marine only pushes quickly swap to Marauders and rip through the Stalker heavy comp that usually counters pure marines.
As far as not building Colossi, it's a meta game thing. Most Tosses, including me, favor the Gateway heavy, Templar tech paths, than teching to Colo. That and even Tosses think the Colossi's a rather boring unit to use.
Yeah, the picture wasn't a great example really. I had some people make at least 3 Immortals against me, and it seemed kind of weird. I don't see why people are trying to avoid Colossuses though I think they're good even in the case of not going against pure Marine.
On November 22 2011 09:07 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:
Thanks so much for this! great read and replays and all!
It would be even cooler if you streamed while you played these, so you could save all the VODs, then edit it to go at like 16x speed and have us watch it on youtube lol.
I feel like trying this now, so I can focus on improving other aspects of the game and to practice marine micro.
Yeah, part of it was also a nice chance to work on marine micro/macro as well as just doing something with it. And it's kind of nice to have a specific goal!
On November 22 2011 09:29 Jonas  wrote:You're not the first one to do it, and it's not really even that impressive. Your one unit is good vs air, good in drops, good in bunkers, good with your main army, does a million DPS, has smart fire, can be split/stutter stepped quite easily, has two of the best unit upgrades in the game, and costs only 50 minerals. I'd be more impressed if you got to masters using only mass zerglings (and only 1 queen per hatchery, no mass queen shenanigans either), although when you watch Stephano play there is no doubt that it is possible. If you can get to masters making only zealots I'd be impressed. Thanks for your valuable contribution to the thread.
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United States556 Posts
You can do some insanely strong and fast 2 base timings with pure marine since you can cut scvs earlier, since once you have enough gas for combat/stim (and maybe 1/1) you can pull those 6 scvs to the minerals. I'll probably do this to mess around, but I've actually done this quite a bit, but I just add in medivacs.
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I usually just go marines but with medivacs in tvz, I add a few marauders in TvT depending on opponent's unit comp. It's pretty standard. (masters terran )
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United States4991 Posts
On November 22 2011 10:59 darthcaesar wrote:
I usually just go marines but with medivacs in tvz, I add a few marauders in TvT depending on opponent's unit comp. It's pretty standard. (masters terran )
I don't know what sort of masters Terran you are, but it's actually pretty standard to have Siege Tanks in both of those matchups from what I've seen :O.
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I wouldn't try this unless you don't mind losing every game once you boost your ranking past what your actual skill level is. Problem with fun things like this, you can't return to where you were before, you're stuck in masters.
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Did you have a preset timing attack for each matchup? or did it vary from game to game? I'm kind of curious because my intuitive thought is that once tanks/colossus are out you are pretty much out of luck
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I only make marines anyway
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i would assume that a master player can get to master league with making vikings only too.
new challenge? vikings imba?
(i've seen rainbow do it in GM vs both protoss and zerg... so dont tell me it's impossible vs protoss )
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United States4991 Posts
On November 22 2011 11:36 Brandish wrote:
Did you have a preset timing attack for each matchup? or did it vary from game to game? I'm kind of curious because my intuitive thought is that once tanks/colossus are out you are pretty much out of luck
I generally timed it to have +1/+1 and combat shields/stim finish around the same time and attack at that point. Tanks aren't a killer - I played quite a few TvTs against people who had multiple tanks. Colossi are pretty deadly yeah . The good thing is that, as some people in here mentioned, the general game frame has switched away from being so Colossi-centric, so a lot of games were winnable without fighting Colossi balls.
On November 22 2011 11:29 ImHuko wrote:
I wouldn't try this unless you don't mind losing every game once you boost your ranking past what your actual skill level is. Problem with fun things like this, you can't return to where you were before, you're stuck in masters.
My MMR with the strat wasn't higher than my actual ranking.
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No wonder why people keep telling people to macro better ... if you're playing Terran, you win with mass marines into masters league ... ...
Ahhh, oh well =(
Doesn't bode well for Protoss ...
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You didn't happen to play someone named "Enjoy" did you?
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I've been watching the replays over the last couple days, and enjoying them. I had a quick question (if you still check these comments), and I'd welcome the answer from anyone.
Why no reactors? It didn't seem like you were starved for gas, and conventional sentiment is that the hiccup in the production cycle is worth the resultant double production. Is it some crazy high-masters mathcraft that just building a new barracks is in some way more advantageous than reactoring an existing one (once you're on 2+ bases)?
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EPT
