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United States4991 Posts
The Challenge
Last Monday, I was having dinner with some folks I know, and I had a conversation with someone who'd just started a new account and was messing around with going mass Marines in a macro style. I said "hah, that sounds easy to get master league with" (on NA), and thus came about the Marine Challenge:
- Only units = SCVS, Marines, MULEs
- Have to play macro style (typically a 1 rax FE is what I did)
I started from bronze (deliberately lost my first 5 placements), and then I began the great journey.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/wnhWC.png)
Well, I didn't have much option... 
I mostly predicted that I would have the easiest time in TvT, with TvZ being decent and TvP being very difficult. I was already a marine-heavy TvTer, and of my Terran matchups, I historically had the best results in TvT.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/4RT33.png)
Who needs other units anyway?
TvP, I imagined that the entire matchup would be my opponent seeing I'm going mass Marines, and then turtling and making several Colossus. They would then proceed to move out and smash my face.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/1jQWs.png)
...yeah...
For some reason, most people didn't do this. Were they afraid I would make Vikings? Did they want to appear gosu and beat me without Colossi but by harassing, upgrading, and being gosu? I don't know... They sometimes did try to transition into it, but their Zealot/Sentry/Immortal/Stalker heavy armies usually died to my +1/+1/Stim/Combat Shield Marines by the time they thought to start transitioning.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/57CGi.png)
Why would you make Immortals against someone going pure mass Marine
TvZ, only Infestors and Banelings were particularly worrisome. Against lower ranked players, I could fight straight up against mass Baneling/Zergling, but by the time I hit mid-master league players, I basically had to hope they didn't game my strategy and go pure Zergling/Baneling - my splits aren't good enough to fight people who can actually macro and make that . (I did win some against people who made 40+ Banelings, but on the whole I lost those games)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/lN0UO.jpg)
Oh crap...
The Build
So what did I actually do? My opening didn't particularly deviate according to my enemy's race (although if I did scout them cheesing me, I would adapt accordingly  ).
1 Rax
SCV --> 16, then Orbital
1 Marine
CC
I'd then typically bunker my natural and get 3 raxes, then add dual gas. I'd go dual upgrades, then start stim, combat shields, and then use my gas to tech to armory. Since I only had Marines, I had to pull SCVs in some cases if my opponent pressured me with Marine/Tank early on, but on the whole Marines are pretty good.
Here is a table showing the distribution of my opening builds: + Show Spoiler +
The Results
Ultimately, coming up from bronze, I hit master league with a 51-8 record (I had been playing master league players for a while before I actually got promoted though).
- TvZ: 19-4 (82%)
- TvP: 16-4 (80%)
- TvT: 16-0 (100%)
- Average game length: 9:33
- My average APM (sc2gears): 135
- Times I was worker rushed: 1 (no I didn't lose to it, come on)
- Times I was cannon rushed: 2 (who cannon rushes a Terran?!?!)
I also found that, as I got to higher leagues, people got madder and madder about losing to mass Marines, and started calling me a cheeser, telling me I'd never hit master league with this strat, etc.
Final Disclaimer
I'm not claiming Terran is imbalanced, nor even that Marines are imbalanced. Marines are for sure really good, and are somewhat arguably the most versatile unit in the game, but that doesn't mean the race is imbalanced. This was just a for-fun challenge . After hitting master league, I don't really intend to keep playing this way to see how I can actually get (I was playing people who would probably be classified as "mid master").
The account I used (had no MMR due to having no 1v1 games last season): http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/2690915/1/Lorelei/ [note, 5 of the losses were from deliberate losses in placement ]
Here are the replays from the run FYI: https://rapidshare.com/files/2122706869/Reps.zip
 
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nice effort and a nice read!
I should try this sometime too  , but a 80% win rate vs zerg is pretty impressive with this strat  .
good luck further down the road.
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Interesting how this would play out if you allowed yourself to all-in aswell New MarineKing yo :D
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This kind of sounds like you were already mid to high masters so you were going to get there on a new account regardless of what strategy you used. I think that in the lower leagues as long as you're better than your opponent you're going to win no matter what unit composition you have. It is fun going mass marines sometimes, I only use this against zerg and I always get BM'd really hard.
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ahaha awesome ^^ nice job.
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losing the first 5 placement matches intentionally to be able to play the absolute worst players on the Bnet doesnt sound like a challenge to me at all sorry..
You described yourself that against equally skilled players it doesnt work so good anymore,so i dont really get the point of the thread. I could make a topic "The blink stalker challenge" or "mass roach challenge".. and smash bronze noobs my way up to master but meh...
+ Show Spoiler +
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On November 20 2011 06:56 Falcon_NL wrote:nice effort and a nice read! I should try this sometime too , but a 80% win rate vs zerg is pretty impressive with this strat . good luck further down the road.
If he's innately much better than his opponent, he could have done anything and won. Don't take the statistics at face value.
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I'm glad for you but as a Z you just crushed my soul a little bit.
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On November 20 2011 07:48 ae wrote:losing the first 5 placement matches intentionally to be able to play the absolute worst players on the Bnet doesnt sound like a challenge to me at all sorry.. You described yourself that against equally skilled players it doesnt work so good anymore,so i dont really get the point of the thread. I could make a topic "The blink stalker challenge" or "mass roach challenge".. and smash bronze noobs my way up to master but meh... + Show Spoiler +
Can you share some insight on going to masters by playing bronze players? It's not like you hit masters when youre not consistently beating masters. It's not about bragging he just tried something out to see if it would work.
Edit: Also Insane why do you have no icon at your name? :O:O
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United States4991 Posts
As I mentioned, I did play quite a few players who were in master league, so it's not like I was just crushing super low ranked players to get it. The winrates are inflated because lots of the games were vs lower ranked players. My winrate was still decent against low-mid master though.
No icon because I didn't want one .
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arr im writing shit.. i see you wanted to try this gainst all levels so yeah i kinda understand the losing of placement matches now
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Croatia9490 Posts
haha reminds me of a BGH monobattles.
Nice work Peter ^^
edit: let me know if you wanna bgh sometimes (like right now!)
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haha, reminds me of the guy who did a bunch of blogs on his worker rushes!
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Rofl.
Basically every answer in the "Terran Help Me Thread" from now on should be "Make more Marines".
I approve. I've never lost because I had "too many Marines".
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Estonia1344 Posts
On November 20 2011 06:23 Insane wrote:
Why would you make Immortals against someone going pure mass Marine
-1 Immortal has virtually the same DPS against light as 2 stalkers (Technically slightly less b/c Immortal attack speed is 0.01 less than a Stalker, lol)
-Immortals do not overkill as they have no projectile animation, which means practically speaking Immortals do more damage vs Marines because stalkers' projectile animation takes so freaking long.
-200 hp vs 160 hp, meaning more of an Immortals overall health has 1 armor, which stops a lot of damage vs marines' low damage high rate of fire attacks.
-3 supply vs 4 supply, iirc.
So yeah they are basically less terrible vs marines than stalkers are. Obviously stalkers are awful against everything (lol lose to 3 marines wtf) but that is beside the point.
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What was your rank/mmr before doing this?
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On November 20 2011 11:31 Geovu wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2011 06:23 Insane wrote:
Why would you make Immortals against someone going pure mass Marine
-1 Immortal has virtually the same DPS against light as 2 stalkers (Technically slightly less b/c Immortal attack speed is 0.01 less than a Stalker, lol) -Immortals do not overkill as they have no projectile animation, which means practically speaking Immortals do more damage vs Marines because stalkers' projectile animation takes so freaking long. -200 hp vs 160 hp, meaning more of an Immortals overall health has 1 armor, which stops a lot of damage vs marines' low damage high rate of fire attacks. -3 supply vs 4 supply, iirc. So yeah they are basically less terrible vs marines than stalkers are. Obviously stalkers are awful against everything (lol lose to 3 marines wtf) but that is beside the point.
Yet you kinda have to make this crap unit if you want a chance of defending your natural since zealots will just get kited all day.
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How do Zergs lose against mass marine!? Practically the only thing you need to do is memorize the hotkeys for banelings and infestors!
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On November 20 2011 12:34 Hidden_MotiveS wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2011 11:31 Geovu wrote:On November 20 2011 06:23 Insane wrote:
Why would you make Immortals against someone going pure mass Marine
-1 Immortal has virtually the same DPS against light as 2 stalkers (Technically slightly less b/c Immortal attack speed is 0.01 less than a Stalker, lol) -Immortals do not overkill as they have no projectile animation, which means practically speaking Immortals do more damage vs Marines because stalkers' projectile animation takes so freaking long. -200 hp vs 160 hp, meaning more of an Immortals overall health has 1 armor, which stops a lot of damage vs marines' low damage high rate of fire attacks. -3 supply vs 4 supply, iirc. So yeah they are basically less terrible vs marines than stalkers are. Obviously stalkers are awful against everything (lol lose to 3 marines wtf) but that is beside the point. Yet you kinda have to make this crap unit if you want a chance of defending your natural since zealots will just get kited all day.
Why are you guys missing the point of his statement of confusion on some guy making immortals against marines? He is saying that colossi are far more preferable to make, not that immortals are awful against pure marine (which they are, compared to colossi).
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Estonia1344 Posts
On November 20 2011 13:18 AnachronisticAnarchy wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2011 12:34 Hidden_MotiveS wrote:On November 20 2011 11:31 Geovu wrote:On November 20 2011 06:23 Insane wrote:
Why would you make Immortals against someone going pure mass Marine
-1 Immortal has virtually the same DPS against light as 2 stalkers (Technically slightly less b/c Immortal attack speed is 0.01 less than a Stalker, lol) -Immortals do not overkill as they have no projectile animation, which means practically speaking Immortals do more damage vs Marines because stalkers' projectile animation takes so freaking long. -200 hp vs 160 hp, meaning more of an Immortals overall health has 1 armor, which stops a lot of damage vs marines' low damage high rate of fire attacks. -3 supply vs 4 supply, iirc. So yeah they are basically less terrible vs marines than stalkers are. Obviously stalkers are awful against everything (lol lose to 3 marines wtf) but that is beside the point. Yet you kinda have to make this crap unit if you want a chance of defending your natural since zealots will just get kited all day. Why are you guys missing the point of his statement of confusion on some guy making immortals against marines? He is saying that colossi are far more preferable to make, not that immortals are awful against pure marine (which they are, compared to colossi).
200/200, then 200/200 again for an upgrade while it takes several minutes to get out your single 300/200 unit is quite the investment when your opponent is constantly ramming mule-fueled drug addicts down your throat.
From what I could tell from that screenshot, if Toss had 1 collosus replacing a sentry and an immortal (maybe even a few more units) he would have still lost that battle, and that is ignoring any timing issues that might have arose.
PS I'm not trying to say going Collosus vs mass Marine is bad or anything lol, I'm just justifying why someone wouldn't in a certain circumstances.
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So I always lose to vileHawk on ladder. He always seems to be ready for my timings and is the only zerg I can never manage to beat. After getting an early disadvantage, I just decided to go nothing but pure, mass marines and medivacs. (There are a few marauders, but they're kind of insignificant in the game overall).
And it. Was. Glorious.
24min (ingame time) rep: http://drop.sc/61189
I love marines.
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I've done this before, just with medivacs. It's easy~~ lol
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United States4991 Posts
On November 20 2011 11:32 Mafs wrote:
What was your rank/mmr before doing this?
High master league. I'm not really a Terran player, more of a Random player.
e: oh well wait, to be clear the account I was doing it on had no MMR. I mean on my main account that's what I am.
On November 20 2011 14:12 Pokebunny wrote:So I always lose to vileHawk on ladder. He always seems to be ready for my timings and is the only zerg I can never manage to beat. After getting an early disadvantage, I just decided to go nothing but pure, mass marines and medivacs. (There are a few marauders, but they're kind of insignificant in the game overall). And it. Was. Glorious. 24min (ingame time) rep: http://drop.sc/61189I love marines.
Hooray :D. It's a bit cheating to get Medivacs though . It helps quite a lot!
With regards to Immortals: I think they're still a bad deal... More forcefields/zealots/other things are better in my experience
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Amusing read. Kinda silly people BM and whine the way they do, hopefully the tears of your opponents made the games all the sweeter.
As a Toss player I'll say that most Toss start building Immortals due to the inevitable massing of Marauders that 90% of PvT match ups see. Unless the opponent makes a pact to go Marine only, it's generally suicidal to overlook countering Marauders. Most Marine only pushes quickly swap to Marauders and rip through the Stalker heavy comp that usually counters pure marines.
As far as not building Colossi, it's a meta game thing. Most Tosses, including me, favor the Gateway heavy, Templar tech paths, than teching to Colo. That and even Tosses think the Colossi's a rather boring unit to use.
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Thanks so much for this! great read and replays and all!
It would be even cooler if you streamed while you played these, so you could save all the VODs, then edit it to go at like 16x speed and have us watch it on youtube lol.
I feel like trying this now, so I can focus on improving other aspects of the game and to practice marine micro.
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You're not the first one to do it, and it's not really even that impressive. Your one unit is good vs air, good in drops, good in bunkers, good with your main army, does a million DPS, has smart fire, can be split/stutter stepped quite easily, has two of the best unit upgrades in the game, and costs only 50 minerals. I'd be more impressed if you got to masters using only mass zerglings (and only 1 queen per hatchery, no mass queen shenanigans either), although when you watch Stephano play there is no doubt that it is possible. If you can get to masters making only zealots I'd be impressed.
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United States4991 Posts
On November 22 2011 08:57 synkronized wrote:
Amusing read. Kinda silly people BM and whine the way they do, hopefully the tears of your opponents made the games all the sweeter.
As a Toss player I'll say that most Toss start building Immortals due to the inevitable massing of Marauders that 90% of PvT match ups see. Unless the opponent makes a pact to go Marine only, it's generally suicidal to overlook countering Marauders. Most Marine only pushes quickly swap to Marauders and rip through the Stalker heavy comp that usually counters pure marines.
As far as not building Colossi, it's a meta game thing. Most Tosses, including me, favor the Gateway heavy, Templar tech paths, than teching to Colo. That and even Tosses think the Colossi's a rather boring unit to use.
Yeah, the picture wasn't a great example really. I had some people make at least 3 Immortals against me, and it seemed kind of weird. I don't see why people are trying to avoid Colossuses though I think they're good even in the case of not going against pure Marine.
On November 22 2011 09:07 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:
Thanks so much for this! great read and replays and all!
It would be even cooler if you streamed while you played these, so you could save all the VODs, then edit it to go at like 16x speed and have us watch it on youtube lol.
I feel like trying this now, so I can focus on improving other aspects of the game and to practice marine micro.
Yeah, part of it was also a nice chance to work on marine micro/macro as well as just doing something with it. And it's kind of nice to have a specific goal!
On November 22 2011 09:29 Jonas wrote:You're not the first one to do it, and it's not really even that impressive. Your one unit is good vs air, good in drops, good in bunkers, good with your main army, does a million DPS, has smart fire, can be split/stutter stepped quite easily, has two of the best unit upgrades in the game, and costs only 50 minerals. I'd be more impressed if you got to masters using only mass zerglings (and only 1 queen per hatchery, no mass queen shenanigans either), although when you watch Stephano play there is no doubt that it is possible. If you can get to masters making only zealots I'd be impressed. Thanks for your valuable contribution to the thread.
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You can do some insanely strong and fast 2 base timings with pure marine since you can cut scvs earlier, since once you have enough gas for combat/stim (and maybe 1/1) you can pull those 6 scvs to the minerals. I'll probably do this to mess around, but I've actually done this quite a bit, but I just add in medivacs.
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I usually just go marines but with medivacs in tvz, I add a few marauders in TvT depending on opponent's unit comp. It's pretty standard. (masters terran )
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United States4991 Posts
On November 22 2011 10:59 darthcaesar wrote:
I usually just go marines but with medivacs in tvz, I add a few marauders in TvT depending on opponent's unit comp. It's pretty standard. (masters terran )
I don't know what sort of masters Terran you are, but it's actually pretty standard to have Siege Tanks in both of those matchups from what I've seen :O.
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I wouldn't try this unless you don't mind losing every game once you boost your ranking past what your actual skill level is. Problem with fun things like this, you can't return to where you were before, you're stuck in masters.
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Did you have a preset timing attack for each matchup? or did it vary from game to game? I'm kind of curious because my intuitive thought is that once tanks/colossus are out you are pretty much out of luck
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I only make marines anyway
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i would assume that a master player can get to master league with making vikings only too.
new challenge? vikings imba?
(i've seen rainbow do it in GM vs both protoss and zerg... so dont tell me it's impossible vs protoss )
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United States4991 Posts
On November 22 2011 11:36 Brandish wrote:
Did you have a preset timing attack for each matchup? or did it vary from game to game? I'm kind of curious because my intuitive thought is that once tanks/colossus are out you are pretty much out of luck
I generally timed it to have +1/+1 and combat shields/stim finish around the same time and attack at that point. Tanks aren't a killer - I played quite a few TvTs against people who had multiple tanks. Colossi are pretty deadly yeah . The good thing is that, as some people in here mentioned, the general game frame has switched away from being so Colossi-centric, so a lot of games were winnable without fighting Colossi balls.
On November 22 2011 11:29 ImHuko wrote:
I wouldn't try this unless you don't mind losing every game once you boost your ranking past what your actual skill level is. Problem with fun things like this, you can't return to where you were before, you're stuck in masters.
My MMR with the strat wasn't higher than my actual ranking.
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No wonder why people keep telling people to macro better ... if you're playing Terran, you win with mass marines into masters league ... ...
Ahhh, oh well =(
Doesn't bode well for Protoss ...
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You didn't happen to play someone named "Enjoy" did you?
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I've been watching the replays over the last couple days, and enjoying them. I had a quick question (if you still check these comments), and I'd welcome the answer from anyone.
Why no reactors? It didn't seem like you were starved for gas, and conventional sentiment is that the hiccup in the production cycle is worth the resultant double production. Is it some crazy high-masters mathcraft that just building a new barracks is in some way more advantageous than reactoring an existing one (once you're on 2+ bases)?
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United States4991 Posts
On November 22 2011 16:24 Hurricane Sponge wrote:
I've been watching the replays over the last couple days, and enjoying them. I had a quick question (if you still check these comments), and I'd welcome the answer from anyone.
Why no reactors? It didn't seem like you were starved for gas, and conventional sentiment is that the hiccup in the production cycle is worth the resultant double production. Is it some crazy high-masters mathcraft that just building a new barracks is in some way more advantageous than reactoring an existing one (once you're on 2+ bases)?
Hey great to hear .
I did try Reactors in a couple games. I think if you're going pure Marine, it's easier to just throw down more and more Raxes, and not worry about mining gas beyond what you need for upgrades. I didn't refine it too much, but theoretically once you have enough gas for stim/combat shield/armory/factory/+3/+3, you can just stop mining gas (plus whatever you want for planetaries, but I rarely used them). I preferred not having to deal with making reactors as it meant my flow of units was uninterrupted, and I didn't have to deal with gas / placing buildings so the addons don't block things.
On November 22 2011 15:38 enjoylol wrote:
You didn't happen to play someone named "Enjoy" did you?
I don't know, maybe? I don't recognize your name as being one of the players I played, but I'd probably only recognize it if there was something about the game that stuck in my mind (I played ~60 games while doing this, and I certainly don't remember everyone's name). Did you play a Terran named Lorelei? . (I can't actually check because I'm not at home right now)
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Probably a better build order is one I often use in team games. Just make 7 barracks and attack when your supply is about 40 and rally everything to the attack.
Keep making mules and scvs as normal. And while you are attacking you can usually afford to expand off of it (because as marines are dead you save on depots)
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United States4991 Posts
On November 23 2011 07:25 SpoR wrote:
Probably a better build order is one I often use in team games. Just make 7 barracks and attack when your supply is about 40 and rally everything to the attack.
Keep making mules and scvs as normal. And while you are attacking you can usually afford to expand off of it (because as marines are dead you save on depots)
Did you miss the part where you're supposed to play a macro game or what? The point was to play it without just cheesing/all-ining...
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On November 23 2011 07:31 Insane wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2011 07:25 SpoR wrote:
Probably a better build order is one I often use in team games. Just make 7 barracks and attack when your supply is about 40 and rally everything to the attack.
Keep making mules and scvs as normal. And while you are attacking you can usually afford to expand off of it (because as marines are dead you save on depots) Did you miss the part where you're supposed to play a macro game or what? The point was to play it without just cheesing/all-ining...
Well to be fair anyone who loses outright to this here should just lose and not waste your time while you transition to midgame here. Did you miss the part where I said after you're rallying to the attack you make another CC?
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Rofl how do you deal with DTs if you're only allowed to make Marines? Also... Baneling mines must've been a pain haha
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This seems like it was a ton of fun, I might try it out, I haven't been playing that much in the last while. I used to do this in FFA games it just fast expand and rush for 3/3 marines asap. I will probably watch the replays over the next few days though. Thank you for the blog.
Did any of the Protoss give you troubles who went for the high templar tech instead of the robo tech?
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After watching all of the TvP's in the replay pack, he generally pushes out well before any templar play could become an issue (expanding to a third behind a mass marine attack as stim or Combat Shields finish). The protoss would have to seriously cut corners and rush to DT or Psi Storm to beat this timing.
Edit: Come to think of it, he builds missile turrets frequently if he is left guessing after the scout. He also has 3 orbitals by the time non-rushed DT's could possibly get out. I haven't watched all of his TvZ's, but I would assume the usual push timing hits before a reasonable burrow (baneling mine) timing finishes as well.
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On November 20 2011 11:31 Geovu wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2011 06:23 Insane wrote:
Why would you make Immortals against someone going pure mass Marine
-1 Immortal has virtually the same DPS against light as 2 stalkers (Technically slightly less b/c Immortal attack speed is 0.01 less than a Stalker, lol) -Immortals do not overkill as they have no projectile animation, which means practically speaking Immortals do more damage vs Marines because stalkers' projectile animation takes so freaking long. -200 hp vs 160 hp, meaning more of an Immortals overall health has 1 armor, which stops a lot of damage vs marines' low damage high rate of fire attacks. -3 supply vs 4 supply, iirc. So yeah they are basically less terrible vs marines than stalkers are. Obviously stalkers are awful against everything (lol lose to 3 marines wtf) but that is beside the point.
More Immortal implies fewer Colossi.
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United States4991 Posts
On November 23 2011 11:39 SpoR wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2011 07:31 Insane wrote:On November 23 2011 07:25 SpoR wrote:
Probably a better build order is one I often use in team games. Just make 7 barracks and attack when your supply is about 40 and rally everything to the attack.
Keep making mules and scvs as normal. And while you are attacking you can usually afford to expand off of it (because as marines are dead you save on depots) Did you miss the part where you're supposed to play a macro game or what? The point was to play it without just cheesing/all-ining... Well to be fair anyone who loses outright to this here should just lose and not waste your time while you transition to midgame here. Did you miss the part where I said after you're rallying to the attack you make another CC?
Are you seriously arguing that going 7 barracks off 1 base and sending all your marines and SCVS is a macro build because you make a CC at some point? I don't even know what to say to that. ROFL Seriously CharlieMurphy, never change.
On November 23 2011 20:58 mnck wrote:
Rofl how do you deal with DTs if you're only allowed to make Marines? Also... Baneling mines must've been a pain haha
Well, you can make Turrets; they're a building, not a unit. If you mean from the perspective of attacking, it's not really a big deal - you just save up a couple scans. I don't recall baneling landmines ever being an issue. A few people did try it, but not in a way that ever mattered. Yes, they would be annoying if someone actually did them (have to scan everywhere you go) but in practice very few (even high level) zergs use them very much.
On November 23 2011 23:54 Kralic wrote:
This seems like it was a ton of fun, I might try it out, I haven't been playing that much in the last while. I used to do this in FFA games it just fast expand and rush for 3/3 marines asap. I will probably watch the replays over the next few days though. Thank you for the blog.
Did any of the Protoss give you troubles who went for the high templar tech instead of the robo tech?
On November 24 2011 05:31 Hurricane Sponge wrote:
After watching all of the TvP's in the replay pack, he generally pushes out well before any templar play could become an issue (expanding to a third behind a mass marine attack as stim or Combat Shields finish). The protoss would have to seriously cut corners and rush to DT or Psi Storm to beat this timing.
Edit: Come to think of it, he builds missile turrets frequently if he is left guessing after the scout. He also has 3 orbitals by the time non-rushed DT's could possibly get out. I haven't watched all of his TvZ's, but I would assume the usual push timing hits before a reasonable burrow (baneling mine) timing finishes as well.
Yeah, pretty much this. Theoretically storm could be annoying, but in practice when you're playing against lower level players it requires them to have a sufficiently large army to not just evaporate to yours. It's a lot easier to achieve that with Colossi instead of HTs.
And yeah, I usually played pretty carefully with regards to things like DTs; I was deliberately not cutting corners in order to be safe as I was fine with going into the macro game w/o a totally optimal build. (Partially this is also me not realy being a Terran player, so I was less confident in my calls being accurate on what I felt my opponent was doing )
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well it's certainly not a micro all in cheese build
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Question - I know this is a grand experiment/bet on whether macro pure Marines works but would you considering dropping 2 Starports for mainly Medivacs and maybe Vikings for those pesky Colo? From what I'd imagine, it'd be an interesting follow up since it basically adds the bare minimum of additional units to supplement the Marine army while keeping the core concept behind Marine only intact. I get the impression burning only a bit more gas on Starport units could let you still get away with only 2-3 gas.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/SModI.png)
