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On October 22 2011 07:28 Demonace34 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2011 05:51 Talin wrote:On October 22 2011 04:08 PopeTimusPrime wrote:
Hasn't the HoTS preview just been AWESOME?! You'd be stupid not to think so. Sign me up on the stupid list. Like the very top of it. I'm totally bummed out tbh, it seems like a whole year of SC2 has been a waste, completely pointless. -_- It's like we're getting SC3 or something. There's been so many changes that it's a completely random, new game I know nothing about, and there's going to be months of awful play and trash builds and abusive shit all over again like post release, and we're going to have a million more patches to fix everything, and... fuck.  Well I'm sure lurkers and all the units that came with BW compared to vanilla SC made people say the same thing. I think the changes are going to be good to watch and see the game develop more. Everyone knew this was coming considering there are 3 releases of SCII. Either way, Z seems more zergy, ZvT is going to change drastically but I think it is going to be a ton of fun to watch what the pros come up with.
The difference is that very few people played SC1 super actively and on a high level before BW, things were just developing at that point and the expectations were smaller, so the impact of the changes was much less painful. This is basically a complete redesign of the game - it invalidates everything that's been learned and done for a year, all the strategies, all the builds, all the timings, all the control techniques, standard unit compositions, everything.
SC2 already took a really long time to achieve some sort of stability and consistency in gameplay. Remember how awful the first few months of SC2 were? We're going to have to go through all of that again. Even assuming the HoTS balance is perfect, and obviously that's highly unlikely and will be a whole different problem on top of everything else.
And once things stabilize again, they're going to hit us with the 3rd expansion and hit a reset button AGAIN. So why invest time and money into Heart of the Swarm in the first place, it'll only last for a year as well.
How can this be anything other than incredibly frustrating, I just don't understand.
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Well, it IS an expansion after all. Even adding 1 unit per race is gonna be game changing. How you could not have foreseen this is what really surprises me. The mechanics are going to be the same, and so will the general concept. If builds and the metagame changes, so be it, but I think good sc players will always be good sc players.
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Adding 1 unit wouldn't be game changing to this extent, it's pretty straightforward to work the 1 unit into the existing metagame with small gradual adjustments to builds and strategies.
This isn't even only adding units, it's adding pretty drastic features (Nexus recall actually does change the "general concept" for example). I don't think anyone can honestly say they expected such massive changes.
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I can't wait to see proxy nexus becoming a legitimate strat
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some of the abilities and units seem pretty cheap. Viper grab, replicant cloning, town portal for protoss, baneling burrow move? And then terran just got the shaft LOL
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Taiwan619 Posts
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I've seen pure awesomeness, panderan yo!
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On October 22 2011 08:14 Itsmedudeman wrote:
I can't wait to see proxy nexus becoming a legitimate strat
Well proxy hatch is a quite legitimate strategy against Protoss already as well so I hope you weren't being sarcastic :o
Can't wait for Protoss being able to build marines either.
On October 22 2011 08:15 SpoR wrote:
some of the abilities and units seem pretty cheap. Viper grab, replicant cloning, town portal for protoss, baneling burrow move? And then terran just got the shaft LOL
Screw Terran they have bunker salvage and marauders. LOL.
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On October 22 2011 04:08 PopeTimusPrime wrote:-Terran goes full on copyright infringement and adds the Thor (not the Starcraft Thor but the Mech Commander Thor). It does AOE air damage and is faster and smaller than the Thor. Thank god, the thor was always so easy to kill.
Now you're just exaggerating. Anybody can clearly see they're clearly not ripping off the thor but rather the warhammer mech from the same series: http://farm1.static.flickr.com/111/278697859_9b7e3ad78f.jpg.
Joking aside, I do feel better to learn I'm not the only one who looked at the warhound and instantly thought "Battletech".
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On October 22 2011 12:42 Azure Sky wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2011 04:08 PopeTimusPrime wrote:-Terran goes full on copyright infringement and adds the Thor (not the Starcraft Thor but the Mech Commander Thor). It does AOE air damage and is faster and smaller than the Thor. Thank god, the thor was always so easy to kill. Now you're just exaggerating. Anybody can clearly see they're clearly not ripping off the thor but rather the warhammer mech from the same series: http://farm1.static.flickr.com/111/278697859_9b7e3ad78f.jpg. Joking aside, I do feel better to learn I'm not the only one who looked at the warhound and instantly thought "Battletech".
There was a show when I was little, I think it was called...Robotech? On cartoon network. The main ship they lived in stood up and had cannons, and it looked like the new goliath/thor/thing being added, half buried in the ground. that's what i thought of.
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Thank you blizzard for continually justifying to me why I did not purchase SC2
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My personal opinion on this matter is that they took the ideas the community gave them such as:
ZERG
"We want lurker/siege unit"
"We want Dark Swarm"
Terran
"We need spider mines/ unit to shield siege tanks/control ground"
"We want goliath/ support AA unit"
Protoss
"We want scouting without commiting to robo"
"We want usable units other than MS/carrier"
and then they were too stubborn and obstinate to implement them as is and added a ridiculous twist that fucked this dynamic in a totally OP way. Maybe I will be proven wrong, as Chill says, but at the moment this is my take on the subject, for what its worth.
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Well I'm just glad Protoss is getting a counter to mutas considering we clearly did not have 4 units that destroy them easily.
And since our new units seem to suck so far, I'm assuming the idea is that we'll have to use Replicants. (which is a great, great name by the way - I'd like to know how they came up with something so brilliant)
Advanced technology was so great, we have to steal your stuff and "harass" with our "harass unit" to be on equal grounds.
But bitching is useless cause things will change a lot by the time it's released.
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The creativity definitely is a lacking point.
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the things duct tape won't fix... we have just found one
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It feels like the WC3 -> TFT transition, rather than the SC -> BW transition. The Frozen Throne completely changed how armor types worked, changed attack types, etc. The game was completely revamped. Brood War simply added units to create a more interesting, balanced game.
Feels like they don't know what to do with SC2. I would have rather seen them change some of the spells and units that already feel out of place such as Forcefield, Colossus, Roach, etc.
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On October 22 2011 12:42 Azure Sky wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2011 04:08 PopeTimusPrime wrote:-Terran goes full on copyright infringement and adds the Thor (not the Starcraft Thor but the Mech Commander Thor). It does AOE air damage and is faster and smaller than the Thor. Thank god, the thor was always so easy to kill. Now you're just exaggerating. Anybody can clearly see they're clearly not ripping off the thor but rather the warhammer mech from the same series: http://farm1.static.flickr.com/111/278697859_9b7e3ad78f.jpg. Joking aside, I do feel better to learn I'm not the only one who looked at the warhound and instantly thought "Battletech".
Yeah, I thought Warhammer before Thor. Warhammer -> Warhound. Close enough.
But Warhammers are cool, and Goliaths were pretty cool, so Warhounds are also pretty cool.
I'd probably be offended that Blizzard would remove the Carrier and not the Colossus, but we're not even in beta yet and things will most certainly be changed.
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On October 22 2011 07:47 Talin wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2011 07:28 Demonace34 wrote:On October 22 2011 05:51 Talin wrote:On October 22 2011 04:08 PopeTimusPrime wrote:
Hasn't the HoTS preview just been AWESOME?! You'd be stupid not to think so. Sign me up on the stupid list. Like the very top of it. I'm totally bummed out tbh, it seems like a whole year of SC2 has been a waste, completely pointless. -_- It's like we're getting SC3 or something. There's been so many changes that it's a completely random, new game I know nothing about, and there's going to be months of awful play and trash builds and abusive shit all over again like post release, and we're going to have a million more patches to fix everything, and... fuck. Well I'm sure lurkers and all the units that came with BW compared to vanilla SC made people say the same thing. I think the changes are going to be good to watch and see the game develop more. Everyone knew this was coming considering there are 3 releases of SCII. Either way, Z seems more zergy, ZvT is going to change drastically but I think it is going to be a ton of fun to watch what the pros come up with. The difference is that very few people played SC1 super actively and on a high level before BW, things were just developing at that point and the expectations were smaller, so the impact of the changes was much less painful. This is basically a complete redesign of the game - it invalidates everything that's been learned and done for a year, all the strategies, all the builds, all the timings, all the control techniques, standard unit compositions, everything. SC2 already took a really long time to achieve some sort of stability and consistency in gameplay. Remember how awful the first few months of SC2 were? We're going to have to go through all of that again. Even assuming the HoTS balance is perfect, and obviously that's highly unlikely and will be a whole different problem on top of everything else. And once things stabilize again, they're going to hit us with the 3rd expansion and hit a reset button AGAIN. So why invest time and money into Heart of the Swarm in the first place, it'll only last for a year as well. How can this be anything other than incredibly frustrating, I just don't understand.
I agree with you completely, SC2 finally is having some sort of stable gameplay and introducing 3 random units completely screws things up.
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Does the hydra still have an unmentioned new ability?
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On October 22 2011 14:03 Ganjamaster wrote:
My personal opinion on this matter is that they took the ideas the community gave them such as:
ZERG
"We want lurker/siege unit"
"We want Dark Swarm"
Terran
"We need spider mines/ unit to shield siege tanks/control ground"
"We want goliath/ support AA unit"
Protoss
"We want scouting without commiting to robo"
"We want usable units other than MS/carrier"
and then they were too stubborn and obstinate to implement them as is and added a ridiculous twist that fucked this dynamic in a totally OP way. Maybe I will be proven wrong, as Chill says, but at the moment this is my take on the subject, for what its worth.
Hallucinate?
But yes, I will agree they took the ideas and "added a ridiculous twist". Dark swarm is like reverse darkswarm (or AOE blind), siege unit isn't really a siege unit or lurker, shredder seems really weird.
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EPT
