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On September 09 2011 15:50 thedeadhaji wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2011 15:42 Zlasher wrote:
I have a really similar background to yours. I too was born speaking Cantonese for the first few years of my life. Both my parents were immigrants who came to the US for college, I was the first person in my family to be born in the US. Raised in a town that was 50/50 white/asian at first and eventually became like 80% asian. Throughout high school (boarding prep school, so it was 80% upper class white people) I was known as the whitewashed asian so I just sorta identified myself as American, even some of my close teachers joked around about it.
Something hit me though psychologically I guess, I've now identified myself as a chinese-american and asian-american. I don't speak any asian languages, just English, I have no accent but a Californian accent. I've never been to Asia. Yet through it all I'm still proud of my culture and my background and heritage. ummmmm, so I'm going to take a blind guess here. Did you grow up in Sunnyvale/Cupertino? It definitely sounds like we have fairly analogous backgrounds. In order to shatter your pride, you should go work in China! (LOL)
Cupertino yeah.
And I know the things that China does that are questionable at best but that won't stop me from being proud of who I am. There are things that I hate about my culture and there are things that I will always respect from my culture. I'm not saying that you have to be the same way but I've seen and heard terrible stories out of Kowloon's walled city and everything else, but I still love Hong Kong and Cantonese/Chinese culture.
I also love Cupertino haha, shoutouts to you for guessing it correctly. I mean you could have just as easily picked a socal city like Arcadia or something but you nailed it 8)
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thedeadhaji
39489 Posts
Well I grew up nearby so that explosive growth in Chinese population was pretty unmistakable (or at least that's the only region I know in norcal that had that trait).
And my guess for your school is Bellermine / St. Francis (I don't expect to be correct here lol)
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Nope.
Went to public school through middle school, then went to boarding high school in New Jersey for 4 years followed by currently University in Washington DC.
I've taken summer courses at St. Francis, and have a lot of (white) friends that go to those school. Oh and I'd never allow myself to go to an all guys school in Bellarmine haha.
Btw I just checked yoru blog website and that piece you wrote about you buying an apple...that really hits home dude lol, I feel like we have quite a bit in common when it comes to the silicon valley mindset. Which city did you grow up?
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God damn d ude the more of your blogs I read the more everything just hits home.
I've pretty much lived more on the East Coast than the West Coast for 7 years now, and my appreciation for the Silicon Valley has grown exponentially with that time and you list some of the small things that just hit me so hard. Each day you realize how cold and shitty not just the weather but human nature is on the East Coast compared to California. The fact that I can't wear a tshirt shorts and flipflops in the EC without feeling oddly uncomfortable and out of place sucks.
People attribute californians to having a laid back attitude but beyond that people actually can be considerate as general human nature, in California, to a much higher degree and percentage of the population than the EC could ever have. I've lived in relatively the middle of nowhere in SW Virginia and Central NJ as well as in the heart of the city of DC and every day you leave your soul gets sucked out as well.
Theres that famous quote, "Live once in California, but leave before it makes you soft. Live in New York, but leave before it makes you hard." Once you experience both you realize which one you'd rather live in for a long long time, and no surprise its the same one that 37 million other people have chosen.
* The quality of the people and their good nature. For example, it’s hard to find a place with such passive and polite drivers.
* The general safety of the area (I admit I am biased as my habitat is between Palo Alto and Sunnyvale…)
* The almost religious conviction that talent and hard work will prevail in the end. As a WSJ article proclaimed over 5 years ago, “Silicon Valley believes in unequal outcomes from equal opportunity”. This is a tremendous source of pride for me as a native of the area.
* The generally low levels of racial discord.
* Contributing to, and being a part of the most prominent technological innovation melting pot in the world.
* Giants Baseball
Absolutely agree with every single point there
Especially the Giants Baseball part. God it was just raw emotion last year when Brian Wilson got the last out by a swinging strikeout. They were the first sports team I ever went to a live game to in 1998, I remember watching Robb Nen being the greatest closer in his time and seeing Brian Wilson after years of absolute shit in Armando Benitez among other closers since Nen retired...it was really just raw emotion. I remember watching all 162 regular season games in the 2002 season, and if they weren't on TV and I couldn't record it on my old VCR I'd listen to it on the radio or on midnight replay on KNBR. Damn dude your blog is A freaking plus.
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The hell? Haji, did you become staff within the progress of this blog?
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This was incredibly interesting for me to read. I myself am half Japanese and half white. I grew up in a very Americanized household. I have never known any Japanese nor do I have much knowledge about the culture, for that matter the same could be said about my parents as well. However I grew up and went to school in a predominantly white area. To them I was just "Asian" which is also how I ethnically viewed myself even though that was only half right.
One day when I was in my late teens visited a friend's home. In complete contrast to myself she grew up in a very traditional Asian household complete with being fluent in the language of her ancestors. What really made an impression on me that day was when one of her sisters commented how I "looked more Caucasian than Asian". Never once had I ever heard anybody describe me that way. When I reflected back on that later I realized that the only culture I would ever have would be what I made for myself as an American. I always used to wonder if I had grown up in a traditional Japanese household if maybe I would have had stronger cultural ties. Maybe it sounds weird but it was reassuring to read the OP and see that in some ways it's not really any different at all.
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From my experience, the immigration makes it difficult to be either American or in my case Chinese. I've grown up in a relatively Caucasian area, where my "uniqueness" was pointed out quite often. In a defensive manner, I would cling to the idea of being Chinese. On returning to China, I realized the differences between a childhood in the US and in China. As they pointed out, I clearly was an American. The shifting of identities creates more confusion. What am I? In one country, I'm American and in another I'm Chinese.
I used to believe that had I been raised in China, everything would have been fine. There would be no cultural strife, but the truth is individuality allows for different coping mechanisms. The mentality that I have developed is to reject both American and Chinese. I may be an American citizen, but I cannot attest to having a quintessentially American childhood. I may be Chinese, but I cannot identify with Chinese experiences. I'm content with being neither Chinese nor American.
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On a side note, you should try to come to Japan as a foreigner. There are many Japanese people who won't force you in the old-style mold that were forced on you (certainly because of your Japanese roots). I like being here ^^, not going back to France anytime soon :p!
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I like Kamille's phrasing of "In one country, I'm American, and in another I'm Chinese." It sucks that eventually everyone has to choose a one or two word phrase to classify themselves on paper. xxxxx-yyyyy is stupidly restrictive and cannot accurately describe anyone.
Just roll with what you feel like being.
As a side thought, it's interesting how appearances can play into things sometimes--you could be Caucasian but the child of an immigrant but speak perfect English and no one would ever suspect a thing in the U.S.. You could be the nth generation child born in the U.S. but look Asian and when visiting an Asian country people expect you to abide by social norms and conventions. Or the comical experience of an Asian person visiting an Asian restaurant where the waiter mistakenly assumes that they share a common language.
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Very interesting read, both your original post as well as the follow up discussions. I kind of have a similar background, but never quite drop the modifier. TBH I'd probably be very uncomfortable outside of Canadian (or similar) environment, but at the same time I feel the other stuff counts for something.
I dont know, it's probably just semantics, which is why I don't take labels too seriously. I don't want to sound like... "I'm too special for labels", but they're more informative to the person I am describing myself to than for me. So I just kind of pick a convention based on who's asking. As for identity, Popeye said it best, "I yam what I yam, and that's all that I yam" 
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Hmm... this is a fairly interesting topic that, I suppose, in some ways relates to my current situation.
I was born in Canada to two immigrant parents (Chinese, one from HK and the other from the mainland) and at a very young age we moved down to the states for my dad's work. I grew up mainly around Caucasians and some Chinese kids, but I spoke English as my primary language and only took one year of "Chinese school" before that came to an end. I do know how to speak some Cantonese (I am not fluent, it's more conversational) as that is the only way I can communicate with my grandparents.
About 15 years ago we ended up moving back to Canada when things started going south between my parents and that was where I lived until about 4 months ago. I was offered a position at a hotel in China, mainly due to my expertise in the English language as twice a year there is a Trade Fair held in which numerous "foreign" guests come to stay at the hotel. The local staff speaks some English but it's usually the very basic stuff like asking you how you're doing or if you need a taxi.
Many factors contributed to my decision but in the end I decided to take it as it was a huge opportunity for me in terms of my career, and it would be the first time I would actually be away from home and get a chance to "spread my wings" so to speak (at the time of the decision I was 26 years old).
It's been a bit rocky as while I can speak Cantonese conversationally, I do not know how to read or write any Chinese and a far portion of the staff and guests speak Mandarin, of which I maybe understand like 2% of if I'm lucky. Yet four months into my stay here I'm really enjoying it despite culturally growing up mostly American/Canadian, though my parents did put stock into making sure my Chinese heritage was not completely neglected.
I suppose it's a bit of a "different strokes for different folks" type deal, but somehow I guess I've managed to make it work in a mostly positive manner. Perhaps I just got lucky in that the people who I work with are not as "traditional" as the older generation (like my grandparents) and have loosened up some so that's why I'm fitting in better, but honestly I have no idea. A lot of my mom's friends are also surprised when they learned that I came to China for work and that I actually enjoy it here.
I'm sorry to hear that Japan didn't quite pan out as you thought it might, but at least you have it with you as a life experience now. Maybe at some point go back there more for leisure and to learn more about the country and its history up close and personal, rather than to go with the intent to live your life there. That could give you a different perspective and you might find some things to love about the country.
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United States37500 Posts
On September 09 2011 16:27 ilovezil wrote:
The hell? Haji, did you become staff within the progress of this blog?
He was an admin for a long time before stepping down a few years ago. So technically, he's been staff for a while.
afaik, he got tagged blue today as a "writer" (?)
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Interesting experiences. To me, disagreeing with the professional culture of a country is not a big factor in my ability to relate culturally to that country. Working locally in Taiwan would probably suck balls. However, there are other aspects of Taiwanese/Chinese culture I can relate to, and as such I still consider myself very much Taiwanese-American. Shitty company cultures exist in any country, after all. I'd love to give working in Taiwan a try, provided I was working at a company with international presence (and thus an international company culture).
It always struck me as strange growing up that perception of Asian-Americans often polarized into the "fobby engineer/doctor stereotype" types and the "whitewashed reject anything remotely Asian-valued" types when clearly most of us fall into some middle ground. It's easy to fall into the trap, though, as I found myself subconsciously avoiding Asian student events at university and mentioning my piano major before my engineering major in order to avoid stereotyping. Luckily, I realized that I love karaoke, manga, Asian people, and engineering too much to care about what people think, and am in the slow process of relearning my parents' culture/language.
In the end, of course, our cultural identities aren't any more rigid than cultures themselves are. Cultures are an amalgamation of group experience, after all, which is itself composed of many individual identities. It's one big self-referencing loop. People just like to generalize :-P
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I have to say I enjoyed reading this. I absolutely hate it when people say that they are for example French-Canadian. I actually have a very strong dislike for those types of terms due to time in the military. I have no trouble with people being proud of their heritage or where they originally came from.
I am extremely proud to be Irish and don't hesitate to blame any good luck on that fact However I will never claim to be 'Irish-Canadian' or anything of the sort. I feel it divides people into groups that don't need to be there in the first place.
Anyway good read op I'm happy you got to experience what you wanted ^^
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This thread should become the hyphenated citizens' support group. Seriously though, I love hearing about, thinking about, and discussing cultural identity. I'm a second generation Chinese Canadian. My mom came to Canada for elementary school and went to branksome hall (read: a white dominated boarding school), and my dad came here for high school. Because my parents were quite Mesmerized in their upbringing, I feel somewhat "ahead of the curve." I don't read or speak cantonese or mandarin. I dont follow Chinese customs at all in my interactions with friends or family, and I have no accent to speak of. If I had to describe myself, I would say that Im a third generation Chinese who was born a generation early.
I know its a bad thing to identify yourself according to what you are not, rather than according to what you are, but there are some instances where I can't help but feel, "that is Not me." One example would be when I talk to Asian that are blatantly discriminatory or willfully ignorant of other cultures. I realize that I only see this as problem because I was socialized in a very specific day that they were not, and so I can't fault the individual "Perpetrators" at all. But at the same time, I can't help feeling aware that its wrong, in an absolute sense. Ignorance is bad.
How do you cope with the crevasse that exists between yourself and others of the same ancestry as you? I've learned that its pretty much impossible to change anyone's opinion on a topic if that opinion has been ingrained over decades of socialization, and that its extra impossible to try to do so across a language barrier. I guess that means its up to me to live out the social norms to which I have been accustomed and take other Asians at face value, to remain patient and understanding even in the face of all these differences.
/rant
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I lived in China until 10, lived in Brunei till end of HS, went to Uni in the UK, and now I'm back in China for a little while at least. I'm a pretty easy-going person so I learn the local customs and fit in quite well, but it never feels like home, there's always that joke you don't get, that food you don't like, the word/phrase you don't understand, that person/celebrity/event you don't know about.
While I appreciate the experiences of different locales and cultures and cuisines and environments, moving around while growing up certainly did mess with my cultural identity. I can't honestly say I feel Chinese, although neither am I Bruneian and even less British.
Also, there are some Chinese group based interactions I dislike, the social norms that I grew up outside of just feel so unnatural to me.
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Great OP read, first of all, and all the responses are genuine as well. I think there are lots of points here that people can relate to, or at least have a strong opinion about.
I am a Korean-Canadian. That's how I'd answer the identity question when asked, and that's how it'll be for the rest of my life. It is factually truthful - I was born in Korea, immigrated to Canada with family, and now a Canadian citizen - and it is also how I view myself as a whole. When our family came to Canada, we settled in a multicultural city (Toronto) and we ended up living in one of the "most Asian area" (Korean/Chinese, mainly) of the city. Naturally, my closest friends are Korean-Canadians as well.
When I visited Korea a couple times in the past, I was initially recognized by my old friends as a foreigner. Yes, they said that my tongue was twisted (figuratively) and my physical habits (talking distance, manners, gestures) were like that of a foreigner. Then we hung out, played some SC (I don't think I got crushed too badly, hahah), and then they realized I'm just a slightly tongue-twisted Korean.
That being said, as a Korean-Canadian, I am able to easily distinguish myself (and the similar group) from the Koreans - well, the visa students at the least. Some differences are subtle and others not so much, but it's so appropriate to add the -Canadian at the end - because I'm definitely not just "Korean."
There's no way I can say I'm "Canadian" and call it end of story. Physically I am different, no doubt. Additionally, the Korean cultural upbringing (from birth to age 9) had a profound impact on my morals and beliefs. While living with my parents, I continued to speak mother language and absorb the "traditional" values upheld by my parents.
Needless to say, I'm fairly comfortable in my own skin - the "Korean-Canadian" skin. When I'm with Koreans I might be 90% comfortable, with Canadians (let's just say all non-Koreans) I might be 90% again, but when I'm with my Korean-Canadian buddies, I feel 100% like I belong, and that's who I am.
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thedeadhaji
39489 Posts
On September 09 2011 16:15 Zlasher wrote:
Nope.
Went to public school through middle school, then went to boarding high school in New Jersey for 4 years followed by currently University in Washington DC.
I've taken summer courses at St. Francis, and have a lot of (white) friends that go to those school. Oh and I'd never allow myself to go to an all guys school in Bellarmine haha.
Btw I just checked yoru blog website and that piece you wrote about you buying an apple...that really hits home dude lol, I feel like we have quite a bit in common when it comes to the silicon valley mindset. Which city did you grow up?
I grew a lil bit north of you ^^
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thedeadhaji
39489 Posts
On September 09 2011 16:34 Azure Sky wrote:
This was incredibly interesting for me to read. I myself am half Japanese and half white. I grew up in a very Americanized household. I have never known any Japanese nor do I have much knowledge about the culture, for that matter the same could be said about my parents as well. However I grew up and went to school in a predominantly white area. To them I was just "Asian" which is also how I ethnically viewed myself even though that was only half right.
One day when I was in my late teens visited a friend's home. In complete contrast to myself she grew up in a very traditional Asian household complete with being fluent in the language of her ancestors. What really made an impression on me that day was when one of her sisters commented how I "looked more Caucasian than Asian". Never once had I ever heard anybody describe me that way. When I reflected back on that later I realized that the only culture I would ever have would be what I made for myself as an American. I always used to wonder if I had grown up in a traditional Japanese household if maybe I would have had stronger cultural ties. Maybe it sounds weird but it was reassuring to read the OP and see that in some ways it's not really any different at all.
No matter how we all grow up, "the grass is greener on the other side" effect kicks in at one point or another. Whether we have the choice to set foot on the neighbor's lawn, and what we learn from that experience, is dependent on each person as well though 
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thedeadhaji
39489 Posts
On September 09 2011 17:10 freakhill wrote:
On a side note, you should try to come to Japan as a foreigner. There are many Japanese people who won't force you in the old-style mold that were forced on you (certainly because of your Japanese roots). I like being here ^^, not going back to France anytime soon :p!
I completely agree that being a foreigner will free you from having to follow many of the social norms in Japan. On the other hand, being a foreigner in Japan takes away some freedoms as well (just ask Mani).
So again, it's a two way street.
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EPT
