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thedeadhaji
39489 Posts
This is a crosspost from a few other places I write. I decided to share this on these forums because this community is one of the most important ones online for me, and because I thought there may be some of you who may find this post helpful or informative.
This isn't the most self-flattering of anecdotes, and I seriously debated pressing the post button. In hopes that these words help enlighten someone out there, here's my story.
GROWING UP
Despite being born to two immigrants, I call myself an American, and not "Japanese-American", or "Asian-American". I am proud to carry on the country's heritage and help shoulder its future.
I am the child of Japanese immigrants to America. I was born and raised in California. I grew up in a predominantly Caucasian neighborhood (~80%), and was educated in predominantly Caucasian schools for my entire academic life. The majority of my High School friends are Caucasian. The majority of my College friends are Caucasian. All my postgraduate friends are Caucasian. I am not particularly fond of the self-segregating behavior that many ethnic groups - immigrant or non-immgrant - seem to display. Was I always this way? No.
I was definitely confused about my identity growing up. My first language was Japanese. I didn't speak English until I was around 4 years old. I spoke Japanese at home with family, and still do. I was in ESL class during Kindergarten. I attended both an American School and a Japanese School until 10th grade. During my elementary school and junior high days, most of my friends were the sons of Japanese businessmen who had been sent to California for a few years (they all went back to Japan for High School). I was a voracious reader of manga (what "Japanese" kid isn't?), and scoured the web for reading material in Japanese. During my low-teen years, my identity was roughly 50% Japanese and 50% American. I recall stating my identity as "somewhere in the middle of the Pacific Ocean".
AS A PROFESSIONAL
What changed my identity from this 50/50 state to a nearly-completely American identity? Living and Working in Japan.
Ever since I hit the latter half of High School, I had this inexplicable inferiority complex of sorts because I had never lived in Japan. I didn't truly understand what it was like to live there. I knew this would continue to bother me unless I did something to change it. So off I went.
It's an understatement to say that I underestimated the culture gap between America and Japan. Because I look and sound 99% Japanese, I was expected to adhere to the cultural norms of Japan (though to be honest, I was probably cut a lot of slack). The norms of social interaction were stifling both in and out of the office. It was almost as if the First Amendment was taken away from me (Free Speech). Corporate rigidity was insurmountable. I was expected to completely hand over the reigns of my personal and professional life to the company. I felt like I couldn't say my true thoughts to anyone in private or in public.
To make matters worse, I'm pretty good at lying to myself, so I did a pretty good job acting "Japanese" outwardly. But with each passing day, I was dying a little bit inside. As Jack Welch has said, pretending to be someone you aren't is an excruciatingly painful act. Something had to give.
After my third mental breakdown, I finally got out. I lasted 16 months.
IDENTITY
Despite my growing pains there, I am glad I went to my supposed motherland. I can now immediately respond with "I'm American" if ever asked.
If my experience is representative of the norm, then I don't think most children of immigrants can painlessly assimilate back into their parents' cultures. There's no "going back".
Note: This was originally written as an answer to the Quora question: What is it like to experience the world as a young professional and United States-born child of non-European immigrants?
 
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T.O.P.
Hong Kong4685 Posts
So why wouldn't the term Japanese-american fit you?
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thedeadhaji
39489 Posts
On September 09 2011 14:43 T.O.P. wrote:
So why wouldn't the term Japanese-american fit you?
The "Japanese" part of me has weakened so much inside me that I personally feel that the phrase does not accurately describe my mental identity. The phrase can mean different things to different people, and the meaning I give it (perhaps it is the one I had growing up when I felt that I was Japanese American) doesn't reflect who I believe I am today.
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Very interesting read. Thanks for posting this.
Also as someone who also has two immigrant parents I see why you would want to be called just American. I think I would also but I feel like I'm not since I wasn't born here. I did move here when I was 5 and haven't been back since though. I hate these labels -_-
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That's weird. I'm the opposite.
I was born in Jersey and thus American. However I am Ecuadorian, Italian, Swiss, Egyptian and American when asked.
Why? Until the age of 12, I lived in New Jersey but then moved Quebec. A heavy french-part of the province where most of everyone are pure Quebeckers (or come from European countries). I didn't speak a slick of French and after two years I started sounding competent when I spoke it but couldn't identify with anyone because they were all white catholic boys and girls (while I was olive Jewish and Catholic with an Ecuadorian mother from New York).
I hardly know my exterior family, my grand-parents have all passed away and to be honest, their ethnicities I associate myself with were never a major part of their livelihood when I visited them besides the food (even then...).
With almost no relations to my exterior family, being even further apart from them since I was in Canada and everyone living in other countries (I hardly knew them, so it didn't affect me as much), no full extent of being able to express myself in the native tongue (we were a bit upper north in Quebec, almost no English speakers) and no redeeming grades due to my inability to understand the language, I soon found myself in lack of pride, comfort and feeling of "fitting in" or part of a niche group.
Out of all the countries I am "a part of", I've only visited Switzerland and although I love the country and am a citizen there, I feel almost no relation or pride besides some niche "I'm neutral" cliches and stereotypes that are often jokes.
I feel in America, the cultures are a lot more centralized than Canada. Despite where I started, I soon found Montreal to be amazing where people with multiple backgrounds were fine and accepted as they are and not needing to fit into their "segregated groups" in universities or in the city itself.
I'm sorry that your experience wasn't as great, but I'm also happy that overall, the situation turned out for the best and reassured who you are and who you can identify with.
P.S: I don't know if my parents are immigrants or not. We never really talk or ask about their childhood or past.
Oh, you might like David Mathew's book: Ace of Spades.
http://www.amazon.ca/Ace-Spades-Memoir-David-Matthews/dp/0805081496
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Sounds to me like you're still a Japanese-American even if you don't call it that.
Growing up with Japanese parents, in a Japanese household, undoubtedly raised with Japanese[immigrant] values, and going to Japanese school you almost certainly retain Japanese tendencies in the present.
Sounds like you have a very negative view of the Japanese professional life, and from your very short and unexpanded explanation it seems to me that you are labelling yourself as an ' American ' only because you didn't assimilate into the Japanese professional culture.
Also if you don't have any very close friends who are Japanese and in tune with Japanese culture/heritage this will have a huge effect on you.
Myself, I am a Korean-American. I have distinctly Korean values/preferences on many things even though I was not explicitly taught these by my parents, and when I want to communicate my truest feelings they are often done in confidence [ or drunk ] in korean. I have not begun my professional career, but I have lived in Korea and visited many times. Just physically being in Korea feels right to me, whether its the city or the boonies and it makes me happy. This is my take on my korean-american-ness.
Edit:
Forgot to say something I think is pretty important. Asian-Americans look exactly that...asian-american... The vast majority of korean immigrant parents strongly teach their children to learn their language because it is shameful to look korean outwardly but have no knowledge at all of korean language or values. It's actually a common saying in korean amongst immigrants that if you look korean you should know korean. In America, people judge you based off how you look on first impressions. I, personally, would feel a bit silly telling someone that I'm simply ' American ' even if I really felt no connection to my korean heritage. It's like everyone in the room would be aware you're trying to make some statement about yourself without actually stating it.
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thedeadhaji
39489 Posts
On September 09 2011 14:46 Polarexia wrote:
Very interesting read. Thanks for posting this.
Also as someone who also has two immigrant parents I see why you would want to be called just American. I think I would also but I feel like I'm not since I wasn't born here. I did move here when I was 5 and haven't been back since though. I hate these labels -_-
Thanks.
I think my own aversion to the phrase "xxxxx-American", is because I used to see myself that way in my younger years, and now that I have shifted dramatically towards the American side, it doesn't mesh with my own view of myself anymore.
===========================
>Torte de Lini
I guess it makes some sense that a person who has been more migrant over the years would have less of an affinity to one culture over another.
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I feel that the issue of identity in most asian-americans are somewhat distorted, or even lost. While I understand your views to some degree (I've never lived for a decent period of time in Korea), I don't know if you can say we're able to completely erase our native blood from who we are before American society, both literally of course, and figuratively. Don't get me wrong, I respect your viewpoint as simply an american, but I also think it's a bit...perhaps unhealthy, or detrimental to shun our ethnic roots. I don't know...it's just my thoughts growing up as an asian-american as well.
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On September 09 2011 14:54 Ack1027 wrote:
Sounds to me like you're still a Japanese-American even if you don't call it that.
Growing up with Japanese parents, in a Japanese household, undoubtedly raised with Japanese[immigrant] values, and going to Japanese school you almost certainly retain Japanese tendencies in the present.
Sounds like you have a very negative view of the Japanese professional life, and from your very short and unexpanded explanation it seems to me that you are labelling yourself as an ' American ' only because you didn't assimilate into the Japanese professional culture.
Also if you don't have any very close friends who are Japanese and in tune with Japanese culture/heritage this will have a huge effect on you.
Myself, I am a Korean-American. I have distinctly Korean values/preferences on many things even though I was not explicitly taught these by my parents, and when I want to communicate my truest feelings they are often done in confidence [ or drunk ] in korean. I have not begun my professional career, but I have lived in Korea and visited many times. Just physically being in Korea feels right to me, whether its the city or the boonies and it makes me happy. This is my take on my korean-american-ness.
Well, I guess this would fit in the other end of the spectrum.
I notice that most fall into either end, but find that it's hard to distinguish what falls in the middle...
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On September 09 2011 14:56 thedeadhaji wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2011 14:46 Polarexia wrote:
Very interesting read. Thanks for posting this.
Also as someone who also has two immigrant parents I see why you would want to be called just American. I think I would also but I feel like I'm not since I wasn't born here. I did move here when I was 5 and haven't been back since though. I hate these labels -_- Thanks. I think my own aversion to the phrase "xxxxx-American", is because I used to see myself that way in my younger years, and now that I have shifted dramatically towards the American side, it doesn't mesh with my own view of myself anymore. =========================== >Torte de Lini I guess it makes some sense that a person who has been more migrant over the years would have less of an affinity to one culture over another.
Do you have any appreciation or pride in your Japanese heritage despite your detachment from it identity-wise?
This is a great sociological topic!
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thedeadhaji
39489 Posts
On September 09 2011 14:54 Ack1027 wrote:
Sounds to me like you're still a Japanese-American even if you don't call it that.
Growing up with Japanese parents, in a Japanese household, undoubtedly raised with Japanese[immigrant] values, and going to Japanese school you almost certainly retain Japanese tendencies in the present.
Possibly, but trust me, these tendencies are much more subdued than 10 years ago. The rate of me speaking English has gone from 0% to about 30% over the last 10 years.
Sounds like you have a very negative view of the Japanese professional life, and from your very short and unexpanded explanation it seems to me that you are labelling yourself as an ' American ' only because you didn't assimilate into the Japanese professional culture.
I have a tremendously negative view of all group based Japanese interactions. This isn't isolated to the professional sphere. People's behaviors change dramatically when they act as a part of a defined group in Japan. They no longer act truly as themselves. This way of social interaction was suffocating.
Myself, I am a Korean-American. I have distinctly Korean values/preferences on many things even though I was not explicitly taught these by my parents, and when I want to communicate my truest feelings they are often done in confidence [ or drunk ] in korean. I have not begun my professional career, but I have lived in Korea and visited many times. Just physically being in Korea feels right to me, whether its the city or the boonies and it makes me happy. This is my take on my korean-american-ness.
When I try to communicate my deepest or most impulsive thoughts to my family, I compulsively speak in English. I can no longer "think on my feet" in Japanese. Combined with the nuclear situation in Japan, I don't plan to set foot in the country for at least 3 years and most likely more than 5.
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Thanks for sharing. Pretty interesting topic for me and good to see someone else's perspective that is a bit different from my own.
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thedeadhaji
39489 Posts
On September 09 2011 15:01 Torte de Lini wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2011 14:56 thedeadhaji wrote:On September 09 2011 14:46 Polarexia wrote:
Very interesting read. Thanks for posting this.
Also as someone who also has two immigrant parents I see why you would want to be called just American. I think I would also but I feel like I'm not since I wasn't born here. I did move here when I was 5 and haven't been back since though. I hate these labels -_- Thanks. I think my own aversion to the phrase "xxxxx-American", is because I used to see myself that way in my younger years, and now that I have shifted dramatically towards the American side, it doesn't mesh with my own view of myself anymore. =========================== >Torte de Lini I guess it makes some sense that a person who has been more migrant over the years would have less of an affinity to one culture over another. Do you have any appreciation or pride in your Japanese heritage despite your detachment from it identity-wise? This is a great sociological topic!
I have great respect and admiration for traditional Japanese values, though I may not fit into it personally. I also have great respect for the previous generation who rebuilt the country from the ashes of WWII.
I have zero respect for modern youth norms in the country.
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Its weird how I never really considered myself Korean and always considered myself American/Korean-American but I find myself surprisingly really homesick and missing Korea right now.
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thedeadhaji
39489 Posts
On September 09 2011 14:56 ilovezil wrote:
I feel that the issue of identity in most asian-americans are somewhat distorted, or even lost. While I understand your views to some degree (I've never lived for a decent period of time in Korea), I don't know if you can say we're able to completely erase our native blood from who we are before American society, both literally of course, and figuratively. Don't get me wrong, I respect your viewpoint as simply an american, but I also think it's a bit...perhaps unhealthy, or detrimental to shun our ethnic roots. I don't know...it's just my thoughts growing up as an asian-american as well.
I agree that it would be ridiculous to claim that I have zero Japanese influence in me. In fact, my American patriotism itself is heavily influenced by my most recent impressions and experiences in Japan.
From this discussion in this thread, I now think that my aversion to calling myself Japanese American is because I used to call myself this back when I was far more "Japanese" in my mental processes. Now that I am "less" Japanese, and having seen first hand that I do not fit into "Japan" at all, I feel that "Japanese"-American is a misnomer for me.
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thedeadhaji
39489 Posts
On September 09 2011 15:03 Ack1027 wrote:
Thanks for sharing. Pretty interesting topic for me and good to see someone else's perspective that is a bit different from my own.
Our perspectives are shaped by our experiences. No two people's experiences will be the same, so it's natural that we'll have a difference of opinion.
It's a healthy discussion nonetheless.
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On September 09 2011 15:04 thedeadhaji wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2011 15:01 Torte de Lini wrote:On September 09 2011 14:56 thedeadhaji wrote:On September 09 2011 14:46 Polarexia wrote:
Very interesting read. Thanks for posting this.
Also as someone who also has two immigrant parents I see why you would want to be called just American. I think I would also but I feel like I'm not since I wasn't born here. I did move here when I was 5 and haven't been back since though. I hate these labels -_- Thanks. I think my own aversion to the phrase "xxxxx-American", is because I used to see myself that way in my younger years, and now that I have shifted dramatically towards the American side, it doesn't mesh with my own view of myself anymore. =========================== >Torte de Lini I guess it makes some sense that a person who has been more migrant over the years would have less of an affinity to one culture over another. Do you have any appreciation or pride in your Japanese heritage despite your detachment from it identity-wise? This is a great sociological topic! I have great respect and admiration for traditional Japanese values, though I may not fit into it personally. I also have great respect for the previous generation who rebuilt the country from the ashes of WWII. I have zero respect for modern youth norms in the country.
Sorry, I wasn't really questioning you like you did something wrong. More like a general inquiry about your culture, if you can relate or enjoy the things about japanese culture, its traditions etc.
I went to a Japanese festival recently (With the food, traditional dances and kimonos) and it was supreme. I think I have some pictures. No anime, no kawaiidesu garbage, just better part of Japan (in my opinion).
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infinity21
Canada6683 Posts
I think we are on a similar boat.
Value-wise, I may have some Korean beliefs but I'm much more accustomed to Canadian culture. I've always doubted that I would fit in very well in Korea. I'll never know for sure until I work there though!
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Nice read,
to quote Russel Peters (Comedian).
All my life I've been identifying myself as an Indian man. I'm always like, I'm Indian. What are you? I'm Indian. Where you from? I'm Indian. What do you mean, where am I from? I'm Indian. And then I realised something. I was born and raised in Canada. There's nothing Indian about me! The only thing Indian about me are my parents and my skin tone. That's it! Culturally, I'm not Indian at all.
I myself consider myself Canadian, but my roots are from Scotland, England, and the Ukraine, but I know nothing about those cultures other then reading about them(nothing I was raised with). So I just call myself a Canadian.
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thedeadhaji
39489 Posts
On September 09 2011 15:08 Torte de Lini wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2011 15:04 thedeadhaji wrote:On September 09 2011 15:01 Torte de Lini wrote:On September 09 2011 14:56 thedeadhaji wrote:On September 09 2011 14:46 Polarexia wrote:
Very interesting read. Thanks for posting this.
Also as someone who also has two immigrant parents I see why you would want to be called just American. I think I would also but I feel like I'm not since I wasn't born here. I did move here when I was 5 and haven't been back since though. I hate these labels -_- Thanks. I think my own aversion to the phrase "xxxxx-American", is because I used to see myself that way in my younger years, and now that I have shifted dramatically towards the American side, it doesn't mesh with my own view of myself anymore. =========================== >Torte de Lini I guess it makes some sense that a person who has been more migrant over the years would have less of an affinity to one culture over another. Do you have any appreciation or pride in your Japanese heritage despite your detachment from it identity-wise? This is a great sociological topic! I have great respect and admiration for traditional Japanese values, though I may not fit into it personally. I also have great respect for the previous generation who rebuilt the country from the ashes of WWII. I have zero respect for modern youth norms in the country. Sorry, I wasn't really questioning you like you did something wrong. More like a general inquiry about your culture, if you can relate or enjoy the things about japanese culture, its traditions etc. I went to a Japanese festival recently (With the food, traditional dances and kimonos) and it was supreme. I think I have some pictures. No anime, no kawaiidesu garbage, just better part of Japan (in my opinion).
No worries, and sorry if I came across that way. I was just answering frankly.
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Nah, I wasn't clear. I knew it'd come bad too.
My mistake.
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Yeah I mean..
I probably wouldn't have liked or fit into the social aspects of korean school system, or like the professional sphere...pretty similar to Japanese structure I guess.
But at the end of the day, I want a bottle of soju and kimbap or bean curd soup or korean bbq on a picnic blanket under a tree.
And the strongest emotions I've felt are either expressed or thought in my head in korean. If someone close to me speaks English and Korean I feel I can more accurately express myself through Korean..like I am waaaaaay more proficient in English yet I would prefer to use Korean anyway and listen to the other person speaking korean.
If you've read any of mightyatom's stuff he commonly attributes the seemingly arbitrary decisions he makes based off his korean-ness. I just nod my head at that shit because it happens all the time even though I didn't grow up specifically wanting to learn or admiring it.
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On September 09 2011 15:06 thedeadhaji wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2011 14:56 ilovezil wrote:
I feel that the issue of identity in most asian-americans are somewhat distorted, or even lost. While I understand your views to some degree (I've never lived for a decent period of time in Korea), I don't know if you can say we're able to completely erase our native blood from who we are before American society, both literally of course, and figuratively. Don't get me wrong, I respect your viewpoint as simply an american, but I also think it's a bit...perhaps unhealthy, or detrimental to shun our ethnic roots. I don't know...it's just my thoughts growing up as an asian-american as well. I agree that it would be ridiculous to claim that I have zero Japanese influence in me. In fact, my American patriotism itself is heavily influenced by my most recent impressions and experiences in Japan. From this discussion in this thread, I now think that my aversion to calling myself Japanese American is because I used to call myself this back when I was far more "Japanese" in my mental processes. Now that I am "less" Japanese, and having seen first hand that I do not fit into "Japan" at all, I feel that "Japanese"-American is a misnomer for me.
I understand. Back in high school, I know how radically unhealthy my hatred was toward my roots. I suppose that in your case, you loathed the "hivemind" mindset of groups in general that is established in Japan. In mine, I absolutely hated how elitist and exclusive most koreans around me were as I experienced growing up. Going to virtually korean-only academic programs after school and such, I'd constantly hear how full of themselves my fellow second-generationers were, slandering people of other races and boosting the image of their own. If other ethnicities shopped at our korean-markets, I'd hear how pissed they'd get at how others would dare enter their territory...that kind of behavior.
By now, I've come to realize most of this comes from a combination of useless pride and confusion as to one's ethnic identity as a second generation non-white person living in America. I've since come to simply accept my roots. However, if I were to put a category on myself, I would probably be in the same boat as you - I have no real knowledge of my own culture; I just know that of America's if any. I also find this to be an interesting discussion since I rarely find these type of discussions personally done in detail.
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thedeadhaji
39489 Posts
On September 09 2011 15:10 Kralic wrote:Nice read, to quote Russel Peters (Comedian). Show nested quote +All my life I've been identifying myself as an Indian man. I'm always like, I'm Indian. What are you? I'm Indian. Where you from? I'm Indian. What do you mean, where am I from? I'm Indian. And then I realised something. I was born and raised in Canada. There's nothing Indian about me! The only thing Indian about me are my parents and my skin tone. That's it! Culturally, I'm not Indian at all. I myself consider myself Canadian, but my roots are from Scotland, England, and the Ukraine, but I know nothing about those cultures other then reading about them(nothing I was raised with). So I just call myself a Canadian.
In my naivete, I would imagine that European heritage wouldn't have as harsh a contrast to American/Canadian culture, and hence such identity crises are less likely to occur (also, European immigration started well over 1 generation ago, while Asian immigration is largely just entering 2nd generation for most people).
I'm making sweeping assumptions of course, but it does make sense that you didn't experience as much internal friction as say, someone with first generation immigrant Chinese parents.
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infinity21
Canada6683 Posts
On September 09 2011 15:14 thedeadhaji wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2011 15:10 infinity21 wrote:
I think we are on a similar boat.
Value-wise, I may have some Korean beliefs but I'm much more accustomed to Canadian culture. I've always doubted that I would fit in very well in Korea. I'll never know for sure until I work there though! DONT DO IT 
Haha i know I would probably regret it but I think i will go if I get the chance.
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thedeadhaji
39489 Posts
On September 09 2011 15:18 ilovezil wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2011 15:06 thedeadhaji wrote:On September 09 2011 14:56 ilovezil wrote:
I feel that the issue of identity in most asian-americans are somewhat distorted, or even lost. While I understand your views to some degree (I've never lived for a decent period of time in Korea), I don't know if you can say we're able to completely erase our native blood from who we are before American society, both literally of course, and figuratively. Don't get me wrong, I respect your viewpoint as simply an american, but I also think it's a bit...perhaps unhealthy, or detrimental to shun our ethnic roots. I don't know...it's just my thoughts growing up as an asian-american as well. I agree that it would be ridiculous to claim that I have zero Japanese influence in me. In fact, my American patriotism itself is heavily influenced by my most recent impressions and experiences in Japan. From this discussion in this thread, I now think that my aversion to calling myself Japanese American is because I used to call myself this back when I was far more "Japanese" in my mental processes. Now that I am "less" Japanese, and having seen first hand that I do not fit into "Japan" at all, I feel that "Japanese"-American is a misnomer for me. However, if I were to put a category on myself, I would probably be in the same boat as you - I have no real knowledge of my own culture; I just know that of America's if any. I also find this to be an interesting discussion since I rarely find these type of discussions personally done in detail.
I actually think I had an above average knowledge of Japan/Japanese/Japanese Culture growing up compared to the typical Asian American. The school I went to was meant to prepare kids when they went back to Japan, so it taught all core subjects in Japanese, and didn't just teach Japanese itself. 90% of my private reading was in Japanese.
So I thought I'd be prepared to go to Japan... damn was I wrong. lol
So the flow is this
I think I'm pretty Japanese -> Conundrum of not having lived there -> Okay I'm gonna go there -> Holy Shit I'm way out of place -> If I thought I was pretty Japanese, but had huge issues culturally there, then I'm clearly not Japanese at all b/c I can't agree with how they think at all -> Now that I can look at myself from a more Japanese perspective, I seem pretty damn American...
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On September 09 2011 15:21 thedeadhaji wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2011 15:10 Kralic wrote:Nice read, to quote Russel Peters (Comedian). All my life I've been identifying myself as an Indian man. I'm always like, I'm Indian. What are you? I'm Indian. Where you from? I'm Indian. What do you mean, where am I from? I'm Indian. And then I realised something. I was born and raised in Canada. There's nothing Indian about me! The only thing Indian about me are my parents and my skin tone. That's it! Culturally, I'm not Indian at all. I myself consider myself Canadian, but my roots are from Scotland, England, and the Ukraine, but I know nothing about those cultures other then reading about them(nothing I was raised with). So I just call myself a Canadian. In my naivete, I would imagine that European heritage wouldn't have as harsh a contrast to American/Canadian culture, and hence such identity crises are less likely to occur (also, European immigration started well over 1 generation ago, while Asian immigration is largely just entering 2nd generation for most people). I'm making sweeping assumptions of course, but it does make sense that you didn't experience as much internal friction as say, someone with first generation immigrant Chinese parents.
It comes down to the Ukrainian side of things. My Mom's side of the family is 100% Ukrainian, All of my Aunts and Uncles married a Ukrainian spouse. My Mom was the x-factor and did not marry a Ukrainian man. All of my cousins on my Mom's side of the family can speak Ukrainian and celebrate every holiday that falls under the Ukrainian Calendar. I for one cannot speak any, and I do not celebrate any of the Ukrainian holidays.
My Dad's side of the family is a 50:50 split between Scottish and English, I guess that is where most of my influence comes from.
I guess it also comes down to how my parents raised me in the long run. It is not quite the same, but I cannot relate at all to my Ukrainian side other then never having a big hangover after a night of drinking(not that there is anything wrong with that).
On September 09 2011 15:26 thedeadhaji wrote:
I think I'm pretty Japanese -> Conundrum of not having lived there -> Okay I'm gonna go there -> Holy Shit I'm way out of place -> If I thought I was pretty Japanese, but had huge issues culturally there, then I'm clearly not Japanese at all b/c I can't agree with how they think at all -> Now that I can look at myself from a more Japanese perspective, I seem pretty damn American...
The Russel Peters quote i did also goes longer and he touches on his first time in India and how he is nothing like their culture.
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thedeadhaji
39489 Posts
On September 09 2011 15:26 Kralic wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2011 15:21 thedeadhaji wrote:On September 09 2011 15:10 Kralic wrote:Nice read, to quote Russel Peters (Comedian). All my life I've been identifying myself as an Indian man. I'm always like, I'm Indian. What are you? I'm Indian. Where you from? I'm Indian. What do you mean, where am I from? I'm Indian. And then I realised something. I was born and raised in Canada. There's nothing Indian about me! The only thing Indian about me are my parents and my skin tone. That's it! Culturally, I'm not Indian at all. I myself consider myself Canadian, but my roots are from Scotland, England, and the Ukraine, but I know nothing about those cultures other then reading about them(nothing I was raised with). So I just call myself a Canadian. In my naivete, I would imagine that European heritage wouldn't have as harsh a contrast to American/Canadian culture, and hence such identity crises are less likely to occur (also, European immigration started well over 1 generation ago, while Asian immigration is largely just entering 2nd generation for most people). I'm making sweeping assumptions of course, but it does make sense that you didn't experience as much internal friction as say, someone with first generation immigrant Chinese parents. It comes down to the Ukrainian side of things. My Mom's side of the family is 100% Ukrainian, All of my Aunts and Uncles married a Ukrainian spouse. My Mom was the x-factor and did not marry a Ukrainian man. All of my cousins on my Mom's side of the family can speak Ukrainian and celebrate every holiday that falls under the Ukrainian Calendar. I for one cannot speak any, and I do not celebrate any of the Ukrainian holidays. My Dad's side of the family is a 50:50 split between Scottish and English, I guess that is where most of my influence comes from. I guess it also comes down to how my parents raised me in the long run. It is not quite the same, but I cannot relate at all to my Ukrainian side other then never having a big hangover after a night of drinking(not that there is anything wrong with that).
haha 
Do you think having 4 cultural influences (Canada, England, Scotland, Ukraine) had a diluting effect and didn't sway you in one particular direction over another?
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On September 09 2011 15:28 thedeadhaji wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2011 15:26 Kralic wrote:On September 09 2011 15:21 thedeadhaji wrote:On September 09 2011 15:10 Kralic wrote:Nice read, to quote Russel Peters (Comedian). All my life I've been identifying myself as an Indian man. I'm always like, I'm Indian. What are you? I'm Indian. Where you from? I'm Indian. What do you mean, where am I from? I'm Indian. And then I realised something. I was born and raised in Canada. There's nothing Indian about me! The only thing Indian about me are my parents and my skin tone. That's it! Culturally, I'm not Indian at all. I myself consider myself Canadian, but my roots are from Scotland, England, and the Ukraine, but I know nothing about those cultures other then reading about them(nothing I was raised with). So I just call myself a Canadian. In my naivete, I would imagine that European heritage wouldn't have as harsh a contrast to American/Canadian culture, and hence such identity crises are less likely to occur (also, European immigration started well over 1 generation ago, while Asian immigration is largely just entering 2nd generation for most people). I'm making sweeping assumptions of course, but it does make sense that you didn't experience as much internal friction as say, someone with first generation immigrant Chinese parents. It comes down to the Ukrainian side of things. My Mom's side of the family is 100% Ukrainian, All of my Aunts and Uncles married a Ukrainian spouse. My Mom was the x-factor and did not marry a Ukrainian man. All of my cousins on my Mom's side of the family can speak Ukrainian and celebrate every holiday that falls under the Ukrainian Calendar. I for one cannot speak any, and I do not celebrate any of the Ukrainian holidays. My Dad's side of the family is a 50:50 split between Scottish and English, I guess that is where most of my influence comes from. I guess it also comes down to how my parents raised me in the long run. It is not quite the same, but I cannot relate at all to my Ukrainian side other then never having a big hangover after a night of drinking(not that there is anything wrong with that). haha Do you think having 4 cultural influences (Canada, England, Scotland, Ukraine) had a diluting effect and didn't sway you in one particular direction over another?
It could have, but then again the Canadian part of the culture I grew up with was heavily influenced by England. Have to remember there is a huge difference in culture between Western Europe(England and Scotland) and Eastern Europe(Ukraine) so I think the Canadian in me balanced it out lol(It is hard to describe).
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Yeah, interesting read.
Personally I have a different outlook. I would say 80% of my friends are asian/indian? Why? We are all in the same advanced track courses.
And I have to say that it is intimidating when you are one of the two white national merit semi-finalists, and the other ten are asian. It's hard to identify as anything. In one sense, I'm thoroughly white. But having been through a couple regular classes with the real "average white class of america" I can't say I identify with them.
Nothing life changing though.
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thedeadhaji
39489 Posts
On September 09 2011 15:33 Froadac wrote:
Yeah, interesting read.
Personally I have a different outlook. I would say 80% of my friends are asian/indian? Why? We are all in the same advanced track courses.
And I have to say that it is intimidating when you are one of the two white national merit semi-finalists, and the other ten are asian. It's hard to identify as anything. In one sense, I'm thoroughly white. But having been through a couple regular classes with the real "average white class of america" I can't say I identify with them.
Nothing life changing though.
Ah I was probably shielded from the "average white class of america" my entire life, because I was at private school from... shit, age 4 through 23 -_____-
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-_-
Yeah. When people confuse its and it's in senior year, and complain about being "discriminated against" for smoking, doing pot, and drinking prolifically (during lunch lol, open campus), and we are in a top 500 public school, it's painful
Almost went to a super expensive private school, I got in, but my parents decided against it. But that's really all super rich snobby white folk so...
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I have a really similar background to yours. I too was born speaking Cantonese for the first few years of my life. Both my parents were immigrants who came to the US for college, I was the first person in my family to be born in the US. Raised in a town that was 50/50 white/asian at first and eventually became like 80% asian. Throughout high school (boarding prep school, so it was 80% upper class white people) I was known as the whitewashed asian so I just sorta identified myself as American, even some of my close teachers joked around about it.
Something hit me though psychologically I guess, I've now identified myself as a chinese-american and asian-american. I don't speak any asian languages, just English, I have no accent but a Californian accent. I've never been to Asia. Yet through it all I'm still proud of my culture and my background and heritage.
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Another point I think should be made.
There aren't a whole lot of people who promote "white pride" per se. There is sure a difference between the two, but I don't really identify with either (white) side of my family. My mother's side is italian. Lower class italian drunks. And to be honest all very caring, but just meh, can't identify. My dad's side has sailors and the such. If you believe the convoluted family tree I"m like 4% asian of some sort, because i"m the great great grandson of a British captain's illegitimate child or something. Whatever. Also grandpa could grow an afro, so I'm probably part african american lol. But who cares at this point.
I just think it's hard for me to identify with either side of my family, or the underlying white culture. I've actually been struggling with it for the past couple months.
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thedeadhaji
39489 Posts
On September 09 2011 15:42 Zlasher wrote:
I have a really similar background to yours. I too was born speaking Cantonese for the first few years of my life. Both my parents were immigrants who came to the US for college, I was the first person in my family to be born in the US. Raised in a town that was 50/50 white/asian at first and eventually became like 80% asian. Throughout high school (boarding prep school, so it was 80% upper class white people) I was known as the whitewashed asian so I just sorta identified myself as American, even some of my close teachers joked around about it.
Something hit me though psychologically I guess, I've now identified myself as a chinese-american and asian-american. I don't speak any asian languages, just English, I have no accent but a Californian accent. I've never been to Asia. Yet through it all I'm still proud of my culture and my background and heritage.
ummmmm, so I'm going to take a blind guess here.
Did you grow up in Sunnyvale/Cupertino?
It definitely sounds like we have fairly analogous backgrounds.
In order to shatter your pride, you should go work in China! (LOL)
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thedeadhaji
39489 Posts
On September 09 2011 15:46 Froadac wrote:
Another point I think should be made.
There aren't a whole lot of people who promote "white pride" per se. There is sure a difference between the two, but I don't really identify with either (white) side of my family. My mother's side is italian. Lower class italian drunks. And to be honest all very caring, but just meh, can't identify. My dad's side has sailors and the such. If you believe the convoluted family tree I"m like 4% asian of some sort, because i"m the great great grandson of a British captain's illegitimate child or something. Whatever. Also grandpa could grow an afro, so I'm probably part african american lol. But who cares at this point.
I just think it's hard for me to identify with either side of my family, or the underlying white culture. I've actually been struggling with it for the past couple months.
Time to become huge and have pride in your lower back muscles!
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On September 09 2011 15:50 thedeadhaji wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2011 15:42 Zlasher wrote:
I have a really similar background to yours. I too was born speaking Cantonese for the first few years of my life. Both my parents were immigrants who came to the US for college, I was the first person in my family to be born in the US. Raised in a town that was 50/50 white/asian at first and eventually became like 80% asian. Throughout high school (boarding prep school, so it was 80% upper class white people) I was known as the whitewashed asian so I just sorta identified myself as American, even some of my close teachers joked around about it.
Something hit me though psychologically I guess, I've now identified myself as a chinese-american and asian-american. I don't speak any asian languages, just English, I have no accent but a Californian accent. I've never been to Asia. Yet through it all I'm still proud of my culture and my background and heritage. ummmmm, so I'm going to take a blind guess here. Did you grow up in Sunnyvale/Cupertino? It definitely sounds like we have fairly analogous backgrounds. In order to shatter your pride, you should go work in China! (LOL)
Cupertino yeah.
And I know the things that China does that are questionable at best but that won't stop me from being proud of who I am. There are things that I hate about my culture and there are things that I will always respect from my culture. I'm not saying that you have to be the same way but I've seen and heard terrible stories out of Kowloon's walled city and everything else, but I still love Hong Kong and Cantonese/Chinese culture.
I also love Cupertino haha, shoutouts to you for guessing it correctly. I mean you could have just as easily picked a socal city like Arcadia or something but you nailed it 8)
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thedeadhaji
39489 Posts
Well I grew up nearby so that explosive growth in Chinese population was pretty unmistakable (or at least that's the only region I know in norcal that had that trait).
And my guess for your school is Bellermine / St. Francis (I don't expect to be correct here lol)
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Nope.
Went to public school through middle school, then went to boarding high school in New Jersey for 4 years followed by currently University in Washington DC.
I've taken summer courses at St. Francis, and have a lot of (white) friends that go to those school. Oh and I'd never allow myself to go to an all guys school in Bellarmine haha.
Btw I just checked yoru blog website and that piece you wrote about you buying an apple...that really hits home dude lol, I feel like we have quite a bit in common when it comes to the silicon valley mindset. Which city did you grow up?
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God damn d ude the more of your blogs I read the more everything just hits home.
I've pretty much lived more on the East Coast than the West Coast for 7 years now, and my appreciation for the Silicon Valley has grown exponentially with that time and you list some of the small things that just hit me so hard. Each day you realize how cold and shitty not just the weather but human nature is on the East Coast compared to California. The fact that I can't wear a tshirt shorts and flipflops in the EC without feeling oddly uncomfortable and out of place sucks.
People attribute californians to having a laid back attitude but beyond that people actually can be considerate as general human nature, in California, to a much higher degree and percentage of the population than the EC could ever have. I've lived in relatively the middle of nowhere in SW Virginia and Central NJ as well as in the heart of the city of DC and every day you leave your soul gets sucked out as well.
Theres that famous quote, "Live once in California, but leave before it makes you soft. Live in New York, but leave before it makes you hard." Once you experience both you realize which one you'd rather live in for a long long time, and no surprise its the same one that 37 million other people have chosen.
* The quality of the people and their good nature. For example, it’s hard to find a place with such passive and polite drivers.
* The general safety of the area (I admit I am biased as my habitat is between Palo Alto and Sunnyvale…)
* The almost religious conviction that talent and hard work will prevail in the end. As a WSJ article proclaimed over 5 years ago, “Silicon Valley believes in unequal outcomes from equal opportunity”. This is a tremendous source of pride for me as a native of the area.
* The generally low levels of racial discord.
* Contributing to, and being a part of the most prominent technological innovation melting pot in the world.
* Giants Baseball
Absolutely agree with every single point there
Especially the Giants Baseball part. God it was just raw emotion last year when Brian Wilson got the last out by a swinging strikeout. They were the first sports team I ever went to a live game to in 1998, I remember watching Robb Nen being the greatest closer in his time and seeing Brian Wilson after years of absolute shit in Armando Benitez among other closers since Nen retired...it was really just raw emotion. I remember watching all 162 regular season games in the 2002 season, and if they weren't on TV and I couldn't record it on my old VCR I'd listen to it on the radio or on midnight replay on KNBR. Damn dude your blog is A freaking plus.
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The hell? Haji, did you become staff within the progress of this blog?
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This was incredibly interesting for me to read. I myself am half Japanese and half white. I grew up in a very Americanized household. I have never known any Japanese nor do I have much knowledge about the culture, for that matter the same could be said about my parents as well. However I grew up and went to school in a predominantly white area. To them I was just "Asian" which is also how I ethnically viewed myself even though that was only half right.
One day when I was in my late teens visited a friend's home. In complete contrast to myself she grew up in a very traditional Asian household complete with being fluent in the language of her ancestors. What really made an impression on me that day was when one of her sisters commented how I "looked more Caucasian than Asian". Never once had I ever heard anybody describe me that way. When I reflected back on that later I realized that the only culture I would ever have would be what I made for myself as an American. I always used to wonder if I had grown up in a traditional Japanese household if maybe I would have had stronger cultural ties. Maybe it sounds weird but it was reassuring to read the OP and see that in some ways it's not really any different at all.
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From my experience, the immigration makes it difficult to be either American or in my case Chinese. I've grown up in a relatively Caucasian area, where my "uniqueness" was pointed out quite often. In a defensive manner, I would cling to the idea of being Chinese. On returning to China, I realized the differences between a childhood in the US and in China. As they pointed out, I clearly was an American. The shifting of identities creates more confusion. What am I? In one country, I'm American and in another I'm Chinese.
I used to believe that had I been raised in China, everything would have been fine. There would be no cultural strife, but the truth is individuality allows for different coping mechanisms. The mentality that I have developed is to reject both American and Chinese. I may be an American citizen, but I cannot attest to having a quintessentially American childhood. I may be Chinese, but I cannot identify with Chinese experiences. I'm content with being neither Chinese nor American.
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On a side note, you should try to come to Japan as a foreigner. There are many Japanese people who won't force you in the old-style mold that were forced on you (certainly because of your Japanese roots). I like being here ^^, not going back to France anytime soon :p!
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I like Kamille's phrasing of "In one country, I'm American, and in another I'm Chinese." It sucks that eventually everyone has to choose a one or two word phrase to classify themselves on paper. xxxxx-yyyyy is stupidly restrictive and cannot accurately describe anyone.
Just roll with what you feel like being.
As a side thought, it's interesting how appearances can play into things sometimes--you could be Caucasian but the child of an immigrant but speak perfect English and no one would ever suspect a thing in the U.S.. You could be the nth generation child born in the U.S. but look Asian and when visiting an Asian country people expect you to abide by social norms and conventions. Or the comical experience of an Asian person visiting an Asian restaurant where the waiter mistakenly assumes that they share a common language.
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Very interesting read, both your original post as well as the follow up discussions. I kind of have a similar background, but never quite drop the modifier. TBH I'd probably be very uncomfortable outside of Canadian (or similar) environment, but at the same time I feel the other stuff counts for something.
I dont know, it's probably just semantics, which is why I don't take labels too seriously. I don't want to sound like... "I'm too special for labels", but they're more informative to the person I am describing myself to than for me. So I just kind of pick a convention based on who's asking. As for identity, Popeye said it best, "I yam what I yam, and that's all that I yam"
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Hmm... this is a fairly interesting topic that, I suppose, in some ways relates to my current situation.
I was born in Canada to two immigrant parents (Chinese, one from HK and the other from the mainland) and at a very young age we moved down to the states for my dad's work. I grew up mainly around Caucasians and some Chinese kids, but I spoke English as my primary language and only took one year of "Chinese school" before that came to an end. I do know how to speak some Cantonese (I am not fluent, it's more conversational) as that is the only way I can communicate with my grandparents.
About 15 years ago we ended up moving back to Canada when things started going south between my parents and that was where I lived until about 4 months ago. I was offered a position at a hotel in China, mainly due to my expertise in the English language as twice a year there is a Trade Fair held in which numerous "foreign" guests come to stay at the hotel. The local staff speaks some English but it's usually the very basic stuff like asking you how you're doing or if you need a taxi.
Many factors contributed to my decision but in the end I decided to take it as it was a huge opportunity for me in terms of my career, and it would be the first time I would actually be away from home and get a chance to "spread my wings" so to speak (at the time of the decision I was 26 years old).
It's been a bit rocky as while I can speak Cantonese conversationally, I do not know how to read or write any Chinese and a far portion of the staff and guests speak Mandarin, of which I maybe understand like 2% of if I'm lucky. Yet four months into my stay here I'm really enjoying it despite culturally growing up mostly American/Canadian, though my parents did put stock into making sure my Chinese heritage was not completely neglected.
I suppose it's a bit of a "different strokes for different folks" type deal, but somehow I guess I've managed to make it work in a mostly positive manner. Perhaps I just got lucky in that the people who I work with are not as "traditional" as the older generation (like my grandparents) and have loosened up some so that's why I'm fitting in better, but honestly I have no idea. A lot of my mom's friends are also surprised when they learned that I came to China for work and that I actually enjoy it here.
I'm sorry to hear that Japan didn't quite pan out as you thought it might, but at least you have it with you as a life experience now. Maybe at some point go back there more for leisure and to learn more about the country and its history up close and personal, rather than to go with the intent to live your life there. That could give you a different perspective and you might find some things to love about the country.
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United States37500 Posts
On September 09 2011 16:27 ilovezil wrote:
The hell? Haji, did you become staff within the progress of this blog?
He was an admin for a long time before stepping down a few years ago. So technically, he's been staff for a while.
afaik, he got tagged blue today as a "writer" (?)
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Interesting experiences. To me, disagreeing with the professional culture of a country is not a big factor in my ability to relate culturally to that country. Working locally in Taiwan would probably suck balls. However, there are other aspects of Taiwanese/Chinese culture I can relate to, and as such I still consider myself very much Taiwanese-American. Shitty company cultures exist in any country, after all. I'd love to give working in Taiwan a try, provided I was working at a company with international presence (and thus an international company culture).
It always struck me as strange growing up that perception of Asian-Americans often polarized into the "fobby engineer/doctor stereotype" types and the "whitewashed reject anything remotely Asian-valued" types when clearly most of us fall into some middle ground. It's easy to fall into the trap, though, as I found myself subconsciously avoiding Asian student events at university and mentioning my piano major before my engineering major in order to avoid stereotyping. Luckily, I realized that I love karaoke, manga, Asian people, and engineering too much to care about what people think, and am in the slow process of relearning my parents' culture/language.
In the end, of course, our cultural identities aren't any more rigid than cultures themselves are. Cultures are an amalgamation of group experience, after all, which is itself composed of many individual identities. It's one big self-referencing loop. People just like to generalize :-P
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I have to say I enjoyed reading this. I absolutely hate it when people say that they are for example French-Canadian. I actually have a very strong dislike for those types of terms due to time in the military. I have no trouble with people being proud of their heritage or where they originally came from.
I am extremely proud to be Irish and don't hesitate to blame any good luck on that fact However I will never claim to be 'Irish-Canadian' or anything of the sort. I feel it divides people into groups that don't need to be there in the first place.
Anyway good read op I'm happy you got to experience what you wanted ^^
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This thread should become the hyphenated citizens' support group. Seriously though, I love hearing about, thinking about, and discussing cultural identity. I'm a second generation Chinese Canadian. My mom came to Canada for elementary school and went to branksome hall (read: a white dominated boarding school), and my dad came here for high school. Because my parents were quite Mesmerized in their upbringing, I feel somewhat "ahead of the curve." I don't read or speak cantonese or mandarin. I dont follow Chinese customs at all in my interactions with friends or family, and I have no accent to speak of. If I had to describe myself, I would say that Im a third generation Chinese who was born a generation early.
I know its a bad thing to identify yourself according to what you are not, rather than according to what you are, but there are some instances where I can't help but feel, "that is Not me." One example would be when I talk to Asian that are blatantly discriminatory or willfully ignorant of other cultures. I realize that I only see this as problem because I was socialized in a very specific day that they were not, and so I can't fault the individual "Perpetrators" at all. But at the same time, I can't help feeling aware that its wrong, in an absolute sense. Ignorance is bad.
How do you cope with the crevasse that exists between yourself and others of the same ancestry as you? I've learned that its pretty much impossible to change anyone's opinion on a topic if that opinion has been ingrained over decades of socialization, and that its extra impossible to try to do so across a language barrier. I guess that means its up to me to live out the social norms to which I have been accustomed and take other Asians at face value, to remain patient and understanding even in the face of all these differences.
/rant
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I lived in China until 10, lived in Brunei till end of HS, went to Uni in the UK, and now I'm back in China for a little while at least. I'm a pretty easy-going person so I learn the local customs and fit in quite well, but it never feels like home, there's always that joke you don't get, that food you don't like, the word/phrase you don't understand, that person/celebrity/event you don't know about.
While I appreciate the experiences of different locales and cultures and cuisines and environments, moving around while growing up certainly did mess with my cultural identity. I can't honestly say I feel Chinese, although neither am I Bruneian and even less British.
Also, there are some Chinese group based interactions I dislike, the social norms that I grew up outside of just feel so unnatural to me.
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Great OP read, first of all, and all the responses are genuine as well. I think there are lots of points here that people can relate to, or at least have a strong opinion about.
I am a Korean-Canadian. That's how I'd answer the identity question when asked, and that's how it'll be for the rest of my life. It is factually truthful - I was born in Korea, immigrated to Canada with family, and now a Canadian citizen - and it is also how I view myself as a whole. When our family came to Canada, we settled in a multicultural city (Toronto) and we ended up living in one of the "most Asian area" (Korean/Chinese, mainly) of the city. Naturally, my closest friends are Korean-Canadians as well.
When I visited Korea a couple times in the past, I was initially recognized by my old friends as a foreigner. Yes, they said that my tongue was twisted (figuratively) and my physical habits (talking distance, manners, gestures) were like that of a foreigner. Then we hung out, played some SC (I don't think I got crushed too badly, hahah), and then they realized I'm just a slightly tongue-twisted Korean.
That being said, as a Korean-Canadian, I am able to easily distinguish myself (and the similar group) from the Koreans - well, the visa students at the least. Some differences are subtle and others not so much, but it's so appropriate to add the -Canadian at the end - because I'm definitely not just "Korean."
There's no way I can say I'm "Canadian" and call it end of story. Physically I am different, no doubt. Additionally, the Korean cultural upbringing (from birth to age 9) had a profound impact on my morals and beliefs. While living with my parents, I continued to speak mother language and absorb the "traditional" values upheld by my parents.
Needless to say, I'm fairly comfortable in my own skin - the "Korean-Canadian" skin. When I'm with Koreans I might be 90% comfortable, with Canadians (let's just say all non-Koreans) I might be 90% again, but when I'm with my Korean-Canadian buddies, I feel 100% like I belong, and that's who I am.
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thedeadhaji
39489 Posts
On September 09 2011 16:15 Zlasher wrote:
Nope.
Went to public school through middle school, then went to boarding high school in New Jersey for 4 years followed by currently University in Washington DC.
I've taken summer courses at St. Francis, and have a lot of (white) friends that go to those school. Oh and I'd never allow myself to go to an all guys school in Bellarmine haha.
Btw I just checked yoru blog website and that piece you wrote about you buying an apple...that really hits home dude lol, I feel like we have quite a bit in common when it comes to the silicon valley mindset. Which city did you grow up?
I grew a lil bit north of you ^^
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thedeadhaji
39489 Posts
On September 09 2011 16:34 Azure Sky wrote:
This was incredibly interesting for me to read. I myself am half Japanese and half white. I grew up in a very Americanized household. I have never known any Japanese nor do I have much knowledge about the culture, for that matter the same could be said about my parents as well. However I grew up and went to school in a predominantly white area. To them I was just "Asian" which is also how I ethnically viewed myself even though that was only half right.
One day when I was in my late teens visited a friend's home. In complete contrast to myself she grew up in a very traditional Asian household complete with being fluent in the language of her ancestors. What really made an impression on me that day was when one of her sisters commented how I "looked more Caucasian than Asian". Never once had I ever heard anybody describe me that way. When I reflected back on that later I realized that the only culture I would ever have would be what I made for myself as an American. I always used to wonder if I had grown up in a traditional Japanese household if maybe I would have had stronger cultural ties. Maybe it sounds weird but it was reassuring to read the OP and see that in some ways it's not really any different at all.
No matter how we all grow up, "the grass is greener on the other side" effect kicks in at one point or another. Whether we have the choice to set foot on the neighbor's lawn, and what we learn from that experience, is dependent on each person as well though 
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thedeadhaji
39489 Posts
On September 09 2011 17:10 freakhill wrote:
On a side note, you should try to come to Japan as a foreigner. There are many Japanese people who won't force you in the old-style mold that were forced on you (certainly because of your Japanese roots). I like being here ^^, not going back to France anytime soon :p!
I completely agree that being a foreigner will free you from having to follow many of the social norms in Japan. On the other hand, being a foreigner in Japan takes away some freedoms as well (just ask Mani).
So again, it's a two way street.
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thedeadhaji
39489 Posts
On September 09 2011 18:08 ironchef wrote:Very interesting read, both your original post as well as the follow up discussions. I kind of have a similar background, but never quite drop the modifier. TBH I'd probably be very uncomfortable outside of Canadian (or similar) environment, but at the same time I feel the other stuff counts for something. I dont know, it's probably just semantics, which is why I don't take labels too seriously. I don't want to sound like... "I'm too special for labels", but they're more informative to the person I am describing myself to than for me. So I just kind of pick a convention based on who's asking. As for identity, Popeye said it best, "I yam what I yam, and that's all that I yam"
lol awesome quote!
Definitely agree that the most important thing is to be sure of ourselves (or to be asking this to find something you're comfortable with), and not be too worried about it.
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EPT
